Will Tesla Ever Overcome The Plethora Of Haters And Shorts?

Tesla Model 3

JUN 10 2018 BY EVANNEX 60

FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE TESLA HATERS

Since the very beginning, Tesla has attracted negative press coverage, ranging from honest skepticism to unhinged conspiracy theories. Back in the early days, a column called Tesla Death Watch trumpeted the company’s financial difficulties, and a website called Boycott Tesla spun wild stories of exploding cars and sinister cover-ups.

*This article comes to us courtesy of EVANNEX (which also makes aftermarket Tesla accessories). Authored by Charles Morris. The opinions expressed in these articles are not necessarily our own at InsideEVs.

Above: Tesla logo art (Instagram: investorsniper)

In 2008, Tesla sued the English TV show Top Gear after a snarky negative review of the Roadster, leading to an OJ-style legal circus. In 2012, the New York Times published an account of a road trip gone wrong that was meant to be an anti-Tesla hit job: after the company released the vehicle logs, fans spread the story worldwide, and it became a major media coup for Tesla. (Read about the early ups and downs of the company in my book, Tesla: How Elon Musk and Company Made Electric Cars Cool, and Remade the Automotive and Energy Industries.)

As Tesla has grown, so has the network of naysayers. Seeking Alpha has become a bete noir for Teslophiles, hosting an endless stream of posts (sometimes several in one day) by amateur stock pundits predicting the company’s imminent bankruptcy. The major media follows the current of the clickstream – the national newspapers treated Tesla as a quaint fad during the early years, then spun 180 degrees to become cheerleaders after the company reported a profit in 2013. More recently, as Model 3 production delays continue, the tide has turned back the other way, and anti-Tesla headlines seem to have become a surefire formula to harvest those coveted clicks.

Those whose knowledge of Tesla comes only from the mainstream media tend to have all kinds of misconceptions about the company: it’s already bankrupt; it loses money on every car it sells; it’s a sweatshop where workers are treated terribly; its cars constantly catch fire; Autopilot kills people; management is fleeing like rats from the proverbial ship; Musk is a misogynist/anti-Semite/Trump supporter; EVs are an environmental disaster and depend on child labor in African cobalt mines.

Every action has a reaction, and there’s no shortage of online sources that debunk, deflate, deconstruct and utterly discredit the masses of misinformation. One recent refutation comes courtesy of the Daily Kos. Some may find this article’s tone of breathless indignation a bit much, but it does contain some handy talking points you can use to educate your less enlightened acquaintances.

Who’s behind the tidal wave of Teslaphobic tommyrot? In fact, the electric, renewable future has several different sets of enemies, to say nothing of the legions of online click-chasers just looking for a good story.

Above: Jonathan Duran’s tongue-in-cheek video on how to fight back against Tesla haters (Youtube: TalkTesla)

As the Daily Kos and RenewEconomy (among others) point out, one major source of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) is short sellers – stock traders who are betting that TSLA stock will go down. Tesla is the most shorted stock in the US market – the outstanding short interest is currently around $10.7 billion. Short selling is always risky, but it becomes downright dangerous when this many shorts crowd into the game. When a heavily shorted stock goes up substantially, it can create a short squeeze, a situation in which the shorts can’t borrow enough stock to cover their losses. This creates a vicious cycle (for the shorts), turbocharging the stock’s rise and ripping the proverbial shirts from the backs of the shorts.

TSLA has gone through several short squeezes in the past, but there’s never been this much money on the table. Case in point — following Tesla’s shareholder meeting, short sellers betting against Tesla lost more than $1 billion in a single day. And Elon Musk recently warned that a “short burn of the century” is coming. Of course, he would say that, but if he’s right, the shorts could see over $10 billion vaporized overnight, so it’s not hard to understand their motivation to spread unflattering news, rumors and (No!) maybe even outright falsehoods.

Who, exactly, are the shorts betting against? Strangely, some folks still imagine that this $52-billion company is owned by starry-eyed, kale-munching hippies on a mission to Save The Planet. In fact, about three-quarters of Tesla’s stock is held by major institutional investors such as T. Rowe Price (which owns about 9% of the company), Fidelity (8%) and the huge Chinese conglomerate Tencent Holdings (5%). As the Kos puts it, “The shorts aren’t betting against ignorant hippies… They’re betting against ruthless Wall Street bean counters.”

A common myth, often repeated by news outlets that certainly know better, is that Tesla loses money on every car it sells. Simple common sense indicates that this can’t be true – if it were, the company have gone bankrupt long ago. The purveyors of this poppycock assume that their readers are totally ignorant of accounting. Yes, Tesla has been losing substantial amounts of money every quarter, but this is because it has been investing huge sums in factories, stores and Superchargers (capital expenditures, or capex). The amount Tesla earns on each car sold (gross margin) is actually quite impressive – it’s been running about 28% on Models S and X, which is on the high end for an automaker.

Tesla hasn’t yet revealed its margin on Model 3, and estimates are all over the map. Many observers, including the writer of a recent article in Investor’s Business Daily, believe that Tesla’s current margin on the $35,000 base model is thousands of dollars in the red, and Elon Musk seemed to confirm that recently, tweeting that shipping the minimum-cost Model 3 right away, instead of prioritizing the more expensive loaded versions would “cause Tesla to lose money & die.” However, a recent teardown performed on behalf of German automakers indicated that Model 3 costs Tesla only around $28,000 per unit to produce, which would mean that the new EV already earns a positive margin, even on the base model.

Another fact ignored by the merchants of doom is that it’s quite common for young companies to brave years of losses in order to build their markets – many of today’s tech giants, including Amazon, followed this strategy.

Above: Tesla stock has crushed the S&P 500 since it went public back in 2010. TSLA has also blown away automotive giants Ford and General Motors. Meanwhile, Tesla’s climb even outpaces Amazon’s 1,277%, helping make it one of the best-performing stocks on the market during this span. (Source: Zacks)

What about that “rapid executive turnover” that the financial pages have been making so much of? When you look at the facts, it turns out that there’s not much there – according to the Kos, Tesla doesn’t have an unusually high rate of executive departures compared to other tech companies: it just has an unusually large number of people at the higher levels of seniority, a situation that the company is working to alleviate with a reorganization that will flatten the management structure somewhat. By the way, the company announced a spate of new executive hires in late May, and two more the following week.

The short sellers and the financial press aren’t the only groups that have been gunning for Tesla. The United Auto Workers union (UAW) has been attempting to unionize Tesla since 2013, and the automaker and the union have a contentious relationship, at least in the press. Some believe that the UAW is behind a campaign to publicize injuries and other alleged workplace issues at Tesla. A now-it-can-be-told story in Reveal set off a firefight of accusations, rebuttals, counter-rebuttals, etc. The article contained a couple of demonstrably false statements, including a claim that Tesla’s Fremont factory contains none of the customary yellow caution tape, because Elon Musk simply doesn’t like yellow (naturally, Elon’s supposed color preferences received much more coverage in the media than the more serious allegations made in the article).

California’s workplace safety agency Cal/OSHA has opened an investigation into the injury issue. The question of whether, and how much, the UAW influenced the negative press coverage will probably never be answered to the satisfaction of objective observers. What is not in dispute is that the UAW invested at least $422,000 in its campaign to unionize Tesla in 2017. (The Tesla factory was a UAW shop back when it was owned by NUMMI, a GM-Toyota joint venture, at which time it reportedly had a higher injury rate than the industry average.)

Ironically, most of us Tesla-loving liberal elitist types are probably also union supporters. America’s unions have won some historic victories vis a vis improving workplace conditions and empowering workers. However, unions’ long adversarial relationship with automakers is well known.

We don’t have the space to address all of the wild accusations being flung at Tesla and Musk these days (the Kos does, so read the whole article if you desire the full dose of indignation). In conclusion, let’s assume for the sake of argument that the croakers are correct, and the company is in financial trouble. Could it really go bust and vanish, as so many are hoping? Unlike the failed financial and internet firms of yore that Tesla is constantly being compared to, the automaker has significant physical assets – two factories, hundreds of stores and service centers, and the sprawling Supercharger network – to say nothing of one of the strongest brand names in business history. Furthermore, the reason for Tesla’s famous cash burn is that it keeps plowing its income back into new projects. If failure were imminent, the company could freeze R&D spending, drop the Tesla Semi and even Model 3 if necessary, and continue as a small but profitable automaker selling the popular Models S and X.

So, to sum up for your irritating interlocutors at those proverbially vapid cocktail parties: while Tesla will surely continue to have its spectacular ups and downs, it is absolutely not going away.

===

Written by: Charles Morris; Source: Daily Kos

*Editor’s Note: EVANNEX, which also sells aftermarket gear for Teslas, has kindly allowed us to share some of its content with our readers, free of charge. Our thanks go out to EVANNEX. Check out the site here.

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60 Comments on "Will Tesla Ever Overcome The Plethora Of Haters And Shorts?"

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CIO

As a publicly traded company TSLA will always be under a microscope and subject to all sorts of criticism, positive and negative. That’s what happens when companies choose to solicit investment from the general public. That’s what happens when a business enters a highly regulated industry. Once TSLA produces consistent positive cash flow, pays down some of their debt and learns how to deliver on their promises in a reasonably timely way the noise will die down – a little. Just goes with the territory so no need for this paranoia.

Mark.ca

You would think that these attacks are from the stock market movers but that just a part of them. Being the ev leader they are, Tesla has to stand up to more than just stock market shorts. They get lumped into the renewable energy fight so they constantly get attacked by big oil shills, check Forbes for examples. They are also targeted by the car manufacturers which all have the same problem…they can’t make as much on selling evs so why would they make them at all. Their attacks go against TSLA and the states mandates.
Same old tactics, you wanna take down a movement, take out the main players…the rest will just unravel on its own.
Tip of the iceberg….

Troy

TSLA is not yet really a $54.5B company — $7B more than Ford. In 2017 TSLA sold 100,000 cars while Ford sold 6.6 million.

This valuation only makes sense in a world where a Microsoft will pay billions for a sourcecode sharing site.

Whatever TSLA’s capex thus far, its lines are running flat-out and have shipped 300,000 cars with a $5B negative retained earnings.

Any further growth is going to require more capex.

FWIW I wish TSLA well and hope they’re the first to make a great offroad truck, RV, and/or affordable sportscar on the model of the RX-7 or SVX — as that’s what I’m in the market for and I fricking love electric cars.

I just don’t see a path for TSLA to grow into the big guys’ space, I think the opposite will happen, next decade all the big players will finally drink Musk’s milkshake.

Lamata

Tesla Sells Quality , While all the OTHERS sell Quantity …

Troy

My 2015 Leaf is a perfectly fine USA-assembled Japanese car, quality-wise. No build issues (& battery has a higher reported SOH % than the iPhone I bought at the same time, 88% vs 86%).

Wish Nissan would BEV their whole line. This is what the next decade portends, and should this future come I don’t see Tesla’s competitive advantage, other than is that it doesn’t have a legacy dealer network fighting them on BEV adoption.

60kWh is 60kWh, man.

Clive

Your comment is subjective

Dave

I want what you are having… haha! Tesla quality is the worst in the BEV industry, go look at the delivery reports at Model 3 Owners Club, complaint after complaint… and last Sunday a guys 2 week old Model 3 had a rear suspension failure, nearly causing an accident at freeway speed.

Dave

Totally agree with your assessment. The big guys are profitable, so they can use profit to fund EV development, most of the big automakers are just waiting for battery cost to drop to a point they can build EV’s profitably. Once the happens they will all be in the party.

Tesla has made a few strategic mistakes in my opinion. Setting up their own charging network using isolated tech, may have sounded like a great moat when they started, but with all major manufacturers now pushing CCS, Teslas are going to be left on an island long term.

Same for me, BEV are awesome, unfortunately there are not too many choices at the moment.

ffbj
It’s what happens when a legacy industry is disrupted and eventually replaced. Personal transportation is moving to evs, that much should be obvious. It will takes decade to complete this transition, but it’s inevitable, and those that can’t change over, and repurpose, from making gas/diesel vehicles simply will be absorbed, and there will lots of stranded capital. Of course that’s mostly the suppliers of the engines, transmissions, anything associated with ice only. They just can’t complete with electric vehicles as they are far beyond the efficiency of any ice, and more importantly to governments, whose citizens are choking on pollution, they don’t emit noxious and climate warming gasses. So you have an archaic industry with lots of old power, oil companies, legacy car companies with their tremendous legislative and marketing clout. They support and keep legacy media alive with advertising which in turn colors the media’s view of Tesla. They direct how stories are covered who is bought on their financial shows as expert guests, such a Jim Chanos,, to explain why Tesla must fail. But no one is calling to short Nissan, or GM, or Jaguar because they make evs, since they are all old school companies. In fact,… Read more »
Troy

Disruption requires [sales] Volume.

Nissan sold more Rogues in the US market in 1Q2018 (116,000) than Tesla sold globally in all of 2017.

This “archaic” industry has an easier path replacing its power train than Tesla has ramping up production while going deeper and deeper into debt — the powertrain is ~10% of what a car company makes.

hmm, what *would* save TSLA — make it the AAPL of carmaking — is adopting the Apple model of designing in California and manufacturing in China. They have the capital and the bodies to produce the volume disruption requires. California, not so much.

Cecil T

Cool, but there are over 50 global auto manufacturers and you’re trying to compare the newest one to the largest one. Tesla will make more cars in 2018 than BMW, what about that?

Disruption doesn’t require volume. Volume comes after the disruption and all the players scramble for their new position.

Troy

BMW sold 2M cars in 2017, 40,000 per week.

Tesla has made 35,000 Model 3s as of June 8.

If Tesla were big enough to design and sell:

a) a $40,000 sport coupe (like say a 90s Supra, 3000GT VR4, FD RX-7, 300ZX)
b) a decent offroad 4×4 (like something in the Jeep line, or a Ford Raptor)
c) a decent van platform that Winnebago could use

I’d be Tesla’s #1 fanboy. I just think the “50 global auto manufacturers” are actually going to get there first, because their path to that product variety is more visible to me than Tesla’s.

earl colby pottinger

Yet, when the first digital cameras came out the film industry was selling 100 times more cameras, and there were film processing centers everywhere.

When internet films started there were video stores everywhere.

Or lets bring it closer to home, yen years ago all the light bulbs in my house were incandescent and today 100% of the light bulbs are LED.

Change can be total and fast sometimes.

Troy

Bad example for the Tesla business case, as while film manufacturers were wiped out the camera business itself digitized just fine. I expect the same thing to happen with the major car manufacturers next decade — nobody is particularly wedded to ICE, as in being owned by Texaco or whatnot.

Tesla’s business model (“aren’t EVs cool!!”) is the one in danger of being disrupted in IMO.

Tesla has a decent powertrain, but the rest of it is just a car, ya know??

Kia and Hyundai are coming out with LG’s 60kWh powertrain competitor later this year, if & when they get serious about EVs Tesla will be the one on the defense.

Tesla’s the one who’s got to fight for a bigger space in the market this decade and next. To do this they need to move beyond Ubersedans.

Dave

Tesla has not disrupted anything… Lets keep perspective.. Tesla has attracted most of the negative press legitimately The are people who do not like Tesla because they do not like EV’s, but most of the bad press is due to Elon constantly over promising and underdelivering, and I am not just talking about production. Tesla cars are often poorly built, and unreliable. The show caution to the wind in much of their testing which leaves the customers exposed. Just take a look at consumer complaints against Tesla, some of which have been very public.

When you say “personal transportation is moving to EV’s” I assume that is a long term projection? BEV’s are still well below 1% of the market in the USA, so its hardly an overnight transformation happening. Now, with Model 3 the USA might get to 1% BEV this year, that would be great, and a step in the right direction, but it is important to keep perspective.

jelloslug

So you really think that without Tesla, the current EV movement would be exactly where it’s at right now?

Troy

yup. Tesla’s offerings are more expensive than Audis, and Audis are out of my league.

I got my Leaf in 2015 because it was a screaming deal, under $20,000 OTD counting all incentives.

Ironically, the Tesla-powered RAV4 had the potential to really move BEVs forward, that was a great car with 40kWh and a solid 150HP motor in a very nicely styled SUV package.

But Toyota lost their shirt on that partnership apparently.

For Tesla to change things it’s going to have to sell a car with an MSRP that starts with a 2, and I don’t mean $200,000

CDAVIS

@Troy said: “…For Tesla to change things…”
————-

Sorry to inform you Tesla has already changed things…

Dave

Really? Building a stripper sedan that sells at 50K plus?

Dave

Toyota did OK, they made some money on Tesla stock… They owned the stock during the good times. Not like now, when it is dropping YOY…

Dave

Tesla, may be accelerating the movement, should I send Elon a thank you letter when my I-Pace arrives? Or should I send it to Henry Ford for his efforts on cars, Nah… I think I will send a thank you letter to Jaguar for designing and building the first true luxury production BEV.

CDAVIS

@Dave said: “Tesla has not disrupted anything… Lets keep perspective..”
——————

Wrong…

Every EV car maker (from high-volume commodity cars to low volume exotics) is today actively working to figure out how to maintain their existing legacy business while at the same time being able to develope and produce EVs which Tesla is today defining that EV market. Nearly every major car maker has acknowledged that Tesla has been a disruptive force.

“…Musk is at the head of a product that’s known as a ‘disruptor’…”:
source: Inc.
https://www.inc.com/aj-agrawal/how-tesla-has-turned-the-auto-industry-upside-down.html

“How Tesla is disrupting the automotive industry”:
source Cornell University
https://blogs.cornell.edu/react/2018/03/20/how-tesla-is-disrupting-the-automotive-industry/

CDAVIS

“…Nevertheless, Tesla has disrupted the auto industry in a big and significant way…”
source:
http://www.areadevelopment.com/Automotive/q3-2017-auto-aero-site-guide/automotive-industry-on-the-eve-of-disruption.shtml

Dave

Of course you can find articles to support your narrative, but the ICE manufacturers are making all the profits, while Tesla flounders. GM sales are up this year, and they are just launching the new model of their biggest and most profitable product… Going to see some beautiful earnings reports in the next 6 qtrs… and all of that free cash flow can go to launching the next gen EV platform… Yeah!!

Mark.ca

“and all of that free cash flow can go to launching the next gen EV platform… ”
Bahhahahahahahah…dude, you’re killing me! That was super funny!

Dave

Just the facts Mark… GM developing EV’s with their own money, not selling equity and adding debt… Just look at the numbers big guy…

Nix

How quickly some people forget about the generosity of the American People providing GM/GMAC with $68 Billion dollars to keep them out of liquidation. At least give credit, if you can’t manage gratitude.

GM can never be described ever again as doing anything with their “own money”, as the foundation of their current existence traces back to standing on the shoulders of the American People (not to mention Canada too). Failing to give credit where credit is due us ungrateful.

Mister G

Very well said and so true. CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP FOLKS

Dave
The downfall of the auto industry is slightly more complicated then you talk about. It could be argued that the big 3 saved the USA in WW2, as it was their manufacturing expertise that led to the massive buildup in tanks, jeeps, and planes that ultimately won the war. Boeing building the B17’s did not even know what metal stamping was… Ford taught Boeing how to dramatically ramp production, and simplify assembly. So there is that part of the story you forgot… then there is the UAW, and all their greed through the 50’s and 60’s, that put the big 3 in a losing battle when the 70’s came and gas prices went up, and competition came from Japan. I am surprised that GM made it to 2009, when you look at the labor situation they had in the 80’s thru 2009. That has all been fixed now, and the UAW is under control in their expectations, so GM, Ford, spend money on vehicle development again. It is a different market now.. And GM is paying the taxpayer investment back… Lots of payroll taxes, and GM has had some nice income, so they have been paying corporate income tax. I… Read more »
gagaga

Deteriorating margins, exploding gaap losses, cash burn and debt is not “FUD” spread by “haters” and shorts “misinformed” by the “mainstream media”.
Its the reality exposed in the financial statements released by the company itself. For those who are able and willing to read.

Mister G

Don’t buy TSLA buy ford or gm stock LOL CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP

Cecil T

But we go through this with literally every single growth company. Traditional models to measure performance of blue chips do not work on companies like Tesla until they’re 30+ years old and stabilized. There are numerous comparisons to be made from the past 100+ years to what are now large companies but once were growing companies.

Tesla gets hate because despite being an American company, CA isn’t considered “America” to much of the central portions of the country / red states. Elon being from South Africa and having a bit of a funny accent doesn’t help either. Then all the climate denialists and people who’s sound of their exhaust note is directly related to the size of their ego hate them too.

No, I’m afraid it has nothing to do with Tesla’s financials and everything to do with American culture.

yo

America has culture???

Mister G

Meanwhile co2 ppm are increasing check out co2.earth CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP FOLKS

BillT

Given the disruption Tesla is/will be causing not just in the automotive sector but perhaps even more in the energy sector Tesla will always be a target for skeptics and those threatened by disruption. I actually think affordable solar + energy storage could be far more disruptive than EVs.

Mister G

Yes and tesla is in both businesses CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP FOLKS co2.earth

SJC

Making promises you can not keep does not improve credibility.

mzs.112000

Yes, the haters and shorters, will go away. Once the fossil fuel industry that feeds them, is dead.

Troy

It’s because I love EVs that I think TSLA is a decent short.

I think EVs are going to take over the industry next decade, and TSLA is the NeXT in this picture — overall good ideas as the niche pioneer, but about to get clobbered when the settlers arrive.

Dave

I do not recommend shorting any stock… I am certainly no fan of Tesla, and think Elon Musk is a twit, but I wold never bet against a cult… I think you are right though, Tesla is about to get clobbered slowly but surely. I-Pace will put a small dent in them , as will E-Tron, but when the makers overcome the Myth of the supercharger network it is all downhill for Tesla. Losing the tax credit… Ouch… They better be able to men money fast on the model 3 because things are going to get bad…

Troy

I wouldn’t say the SCs are a myth . . . it actually makes sense for each maker to have their own network, I get blocked out of my home charger many times by non-Nissans, even Level 2 hybrid a-holes taking the one Chademo spot . . .

SCs are one of Tesla’s few competitive advantages vs. the big guys.

Dave

Agree, SC are a Tesla advantage for now… Business has to look into the future though, and CCS is going to dominate Tesla in short order, Tesla just cannot afford to expand as fast as CCS is. Also Tesla does not have CCS compatibility, so hmmm, its about to get interesting. Just Electrify America is building 500 locations with up to 5000 CCS stations in the next year. They cannot miss that target or they get fined…

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/our-plan

Many states are also building their own networks, and EV Go, and Chargepoint are also expanding. Look a bit into the future, I think in 1 year CCS will be on par with Tesla SC, and in 5 years… haha! CCS will be the only way to go…

SansIce

How is that working our for you? up over 10% since the corparate meeting and all of the major investment houses disagree with you as 5000 model 3s by next month looks more and more reasonable – sorry to burst your bubble.

Dave

Well, I say wait and see… I am not a person to count my chickens before they hatch… 5000 model 3s per week is only 1 issue for Tesla, what about earnings? Cash flow for expansion? The mountain of lawsuits that have been piling up? these are real issues that cannot be ignored.

Troy

where TSLA is 5 years from now is much more interesting than 5 months.

In 2023 we should have dozens if not scores of BEV options, how many will TSLA have??

Brian

Shorts will go broke and quiet themselves but haters are here to stay.

Lou Grinzo

From the perspective of car customers not obsessed with EV news (as everyone here is), the main problem with the Tesla 3 is availability. I recently bought a new car (2018 Leaf), and the only two cars I considered (non-EVs need not apply) were the Leaf and the Bolt. There was no such thing as a 3 I could buy right now, at a (to me) affordable price, from a company with a reasonably close store and service center.

Tell the average car consumer s/he can buy a really nifty car, but only after a long and indeterminate wait, and unless said nifty car can do something truly spectacular, like fly, they’ll laugh at you and shop for something else. Add to that the newness of Tesla, which is a plus for some people but a big negative for most, and you have some very significant barriers to market entry for Tesla.

Consumers will grow out of the Tesla/EV newness factor, but until buying one is far more convenient, it will push away a lot of people.

JoeInTheUK

The “problem” you see is of pushing customers away because they have a waiting list of 450k customers is one that I’m sure GM, Ford etc would love to have.

Troy

Toyota sold more RAV4s in the US in March than all the Model 3s made to date.

Tesla as a strategy has picked the low-hanging fruit it could. Now comes the hard part.

theflew

Given GM sells 10M cars/trucks a year they don’t need a 450k waiting list which nobody knows how fast that list will be fulfilled.

Troy

nearest eGolf dealer to me is 150 miles away, same deal with EV Kia and Hyundai. Nissan is really the only game in town, literally.

Victor

When Tesla is producing over 7 million cars a year, I think the chatter will subside and the shorters will concede defeat.

Troy

yes, when Tesla is making more cars than Ford, Nissan, Honda, Fiat/Chrysler they’ll have earned their $50B+ market cap.

Getting there from here is the interesting part. Not going to do it with sedans and $200,000 halo cars.

Yes I’m pissy how Tesla doesn’t have a competent $40,000 sport coupe announced yet. I’d love to drive an AWD 3000GT-VR4 instead of my boring-ass 2015 LEAF.

Nix

So go and bvtch to Nissan that THEY don’t have the car you really want instead of your “boring-ass” Leaf. Why single out Tesla to be pissy about?

Oh, right, because as you said earlier, you think TSLA stocks are a great stock to short. So of course you wouldn’t actually hold your own car maker to account for them failing to build the car you really want instead of the one you bought (if we can even believe that….)

Troy

I’m rooting for Tesla!

I just think their current market cap is . . . overly hopeful, pricing in a 100X expansion in volume that has yet to occur and I seriously doubt ever will.

Dave

I feel the same… I hope Tesla succeeds, I am just not sure that can happen with Elon making so many mistakes, and running the company with the pedal to the medal all the time… Employees fatigue, and burn out eventually.

Hunter

” but this is because it has been investing huge sums in factories, stores and Superchargers (capital expenditures, or capex).”

Speaking of ignoring accounting, Capital expenditures are NOT written off in current periods against income, they’re written off over time, years and decades in the case of factories. It’s called depreciation and it represents the loss of value over time of long lived assets. So the Billions that have been invested in both the Freemont facility and the Gigafactory are only impacting the current financials in a relatively small way.

SJC

Expectations of future earnings can be irrational.

Tim Miser

If they ever make a model 3 for $35K and stop overcharging for options ($1000 paint?) I could like them. The Model 3 looks like a $35K compact car so just don’t get why people would be spending $60K for it.

MDEV

Shots, for a while they will bet like casino gambling, heaters never, one because I think a lot of people hate the fact that is an American company that produce an American car that hire American workers that can compete with European best brands, and they hate that, the other group are Russian trolls, very savvy in Facebook and forums, we have plenty’s here trying to demise an American company, I wouldn’t be surprised of big Oil financing some of this people.