Rivian: Third EV Is A Rally-Like Car With “Bananas” Level Of Performance

DEC 5 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 55

First, a truck, then an SUV. Third in line is a rally-style lifted performance car.

Rivian wowed the world in LA when it debuted not one, but two groundbreaking electric vehicles. Now, it seems, Rivian is already discussing its third pure electric offering.

According to Rivian, the R1T electric truck and R1S electric SUV will be joined by a third offering. This vehicle fits the mold of a rally-like performance car.

Quoting Autocar:

Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scaringe said that the model to follow its initial R1T pick-up truck and R1S SUV would be “bananas” in the way it performed.

The third offering from Rivian won’t be quite as large as the R1S. Rivian says the wheelbase will be smaller and that it will look something like a lifted car. A lot of ground clearance is a given. High performance is too, as Rivian only intends to offer vehicles with long range and mega horsepower.

Rivian CEO R.J. Scaringe states:

“The third vehicle will have a smaller wheelbase [than the R1S SUV] and will be the Rivian interpretation of a rally car with a lot of ground clearance.”

Scaringe adds that any vehicle with a Rivian badge will have a “combination of on and off-road performance, and a level of functionality that’s unique in its space.”

There’s no word yet on a launch timeline for this “bananas” car, but it will for sure follow after the R1T and R1S. So, perhaps 2021 or 2022.

Beyond that, there could potentially be even more Rivian vehicles, as Scaringe seems open to the idea of sharing Rivian’s skateboard platform:

“You could build an 800hp R1T truck or a goods delivery van, or a shuttle bus.” 

Source: Autocar

Categories: Rivian

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55 Comments on "Rivian: Third EV Is A Rally-Like Car With “Bananas” Level Of Performance"

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Gibber

It’s been a long time since I have been as excited for a companies cars like I am for Rivian, I really hope this all comes together as planned!

William L

totally agree, there are many EV start up, but Rivian seems for real, R1T is very close to production ready, wish them well.

Warren

Interesting company. I spoke with one of the guys on the battery team for about 45 minutes on Sunday and the convention center. He was pretty amazed by how in-depth we were talking about charge rate, quick charging, efficiency, etc. He said the company has been around for almost 10 yrs now and has around 500 employees? And they are not a public company at this time….pretty impressive. The motor/gearbox drive train all seemed to be very well finished items.

Bloggin

Rivian has big plans, along with two very nice concept vehicles. But so far nothing for anyone who does not want/need a big suv or truck. Also wonder why Rivian is making no mention about the commercial truck market, but instead only ‘adventure’ for the pick-up, where there is no charging infrastructure, while for a electric pick-up on the commercial side with routes, charging really wouldn’t be much of an issue.

Pricing for the entry pick-up is in the same segment as the high end ICE pick-ups. Maybe those pick-ups are more consumer than commercial.

antrik

I think it’s pretty clear that their focus is entirely on the enthusiast consumer market… Which is probably a good thing. Not aiming at the super competitive mainstream market is what likely makes them much more viable than all these late to the game Tesla-wannabe EV start-ups.

Vexar

If you want a commercial EV pickup truck, consider the Workhorse W15. In production now for 2019 deliveries.

Bill Howland

Yeah, I’d be much more interested in some company actually interested in making affordable ev’s.

John

If you could provide a link to the production W15 I’d appreciate it, because I can’t find any news on it.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Last news I saw was that Workhorse had produced a new prototype for the W-15, presumably close to the actual production vehicle, and was taking the prototype on a sort of “road show” in the New England States to raise investor money. So it looks like they need to raise more money before the W-15 goes into production.

I hope they succeed!

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/15/workhorse-w-15-surefly-electric-vehicles-take-new-york-city-by-storm/

Cypress

He literally just mentioned commercial use cases as quoted In the article.

“You could build an 800hp R1T truck or a goods delivery van, or a shuttle bus.”

Pushmi-Pullyu

“Also wonder why Rivian is making no mention about the commercial truck market…”

Seems wise for a startup to focus on one market area. Disparate products means separating your engineers and your resources to different paths; not a good idea for a fledgling company that hasn’t yet started selling its own product.

I’m an enthusiastic supporter of Tesla, but it does worry me that they seem to be trying to chase too many goals at the same time.

Dan F.

I looked at these in L.A. and talked to technical people they had there. Impressive vehicles with BIG batteries which have little or nothing to do with the “green” movement of which EVs are supposed to be a part. Not really a step toward a sustainable transportation system; more for testosterone poisoned brains like other big and powerful SUVs and pickups.

Dav8or

Since they have defined themselves as the “adventure” company I guess, what they should be building instead of some kind of rally car is a Sportsmobile type 4×4 camper van. Those are very popular and cost about $100,000 I think. The spin off from this project could be a commercial cargo van, or passenger van using much of the same stuff, only less and therefore cheaper to buy for industry. By building the “adventure van” they can keep with the brand identity and core mission, but by making practical cargo vans from the same parts, they can make development of this vehicle more profitable.

Does hardly anyone need, or want a rally car? Lifted 4×4 rally cars don’t really seem to be a big trend right now.

ct200h

outdoor adventure vehicle , lifted rally type all wheel drive , think Subaru , Audi Allroad, Porsche macan, etc

mxs

I have no experience with Macan … Subaru Outback could perhaps be called outdoor adventure, but Audi Allroad is just jacked up wagon with cladding. Like some others …. Volvo V60 Cross Country. Useless for off any offroad and less efficient on normal roads. Just way to make extra coin by OEM’s …. and they have for some reason.

Tom

Said by everyone who has never owned one. The ugly cladding is a badge of pride.

Dan F.

More like Ford Raptor.

throwback

“Scaringe adds that any vehicle with a Rivian badge will have a “combination of on and off-road performance, and a level of functionality that’s unique in its space.”

That is certainly unique. Sort of a high performance on/off road niche. Starting with a pick up and SUV is definitely a smart move for North America.

Robert Weekley

Can the Raise/Lower the vehicle as much as 10 inches for Rock Crawling/Off Road Adventures, and drop down for Efficiency on the Highway? I know they have some adjustments, but forgot how much!

Larry Wolf

Who in their right mind would consider buying an ICE truck in a few years time? If millions do then that says a lot for the state of mind of Americans and it’s sad.

Vexar

Sadly, someone who only had $27k or so to spend and couldn’t sort out that confusing ROI thing. Or, a dead-and-buried Ford fan.

Andy

Assuming that person wants a midsize truck and assuming they would be happy with 200 miles then they have to uplift by $30k to get the Rivian base model.

Now assuming an average 6 year lifespan from new before sale that’s an average of over 30k miles (more than twice the average US mileage) a year assuming electricity is free.

That’s ignoring repair costs, which may well be higher on the Rivian due to it’s much more complex suspension and far more low voltage electric parts to go wrong, from a small company with a smaller number of non OEM parts.

Unfortunately it’s still a few years before a realistic mass market consumer pickup is going to be realised. As much as the Rivian is a great looking vehicle, a mass market consumer vehicle it is not (and Rivian know this presumably, considering their production forecast).

Robert Weekley

It’s the TCO Thing that confuses folks, since they keep no track or record to even know such figures. Those that do log and track such things are usually in business!

F150 Brian

Once the cost reductions become reality, then EVs will be legit alternatives for the general public and not just rich boys toys.
That year has not come yet. Nor is it next year. Beyond that we’re just guessing.

As an example, a base Bolt with taxes in Ontario is $52,200 (might get a small discount, but also have to pay financing)
The average Canadian family income is $70,330, less income tax would be in the neighbourhood of $60k.
So the average Canadian family has basically zero chance of buying a new EV.
Their choice is obviously between a used car and a basic new car like an Elantra, Civic, Mazda3, Corolla, etc which all start about $17k.
You simply can afford it by claiming gas and maintenance savings. Welcome to reality.

Mega

> That year has not come yet. Nor is it next year. Beyond that we’re just guessing.

I keep on waiting year after year for EV’s to get affordable. Wonder how long I will have to wait.

The whole save money on gas does nothing for me, if it takes 20 yeas of fuel to equal the price difference of an EV.

It would be nice if some auto company could produce a 250mile EV, with 250KW fast charging, for $25,000. One day!

DDRtrabi

My Volt LT cost me $22k after tax incentives, and my commute is exclusively EV. Get one while you still can.

Robert Weekley

250 kW Fast Charging could be done today on a pack using A123 Systems Cells, but it’s not likely to have that Much Range, since those cells have High Power Density, or a very high “C” Rating (30C), but Low Energy Density. For Example, their 18650 cells are rated for just 1.1 Ah, while Tesla’s cells for Model S from Panasonic uses 18650 cells rated for 3.4 Ah. So, about 3x the Energy Density, but much lower power density, or about a “2C” rating, before Tesla’s Thermal Management kicks in!

Cell Chemistry has do deal with Energy Density, Power Density, Cycle Life, and Thermal Range (How Hot or Cold can they safely Operate)! It’s like a Pyramid Graph of Specs – move more in one direction, often takes you away from another direction.

That said, Elon has been noted to say that they might make a smaller $25,000 Tesla, in about 4-5 years!

I would guess Range of it should be at least 200 miles, charging at 150 kW, or so!

Andy

Like a Mercedes A Class, or BMW 1 Series presumably.

Lou Grinzo

Assume “a few years time” is roughly 5 years.

There will surely be companies selling mid- and full-size pickup trucks in the US that are liquid fueled, with some not even being any form of hybrid. And people who need the lowest possible entry price will still buy them and fuel them at the millions of existing gas stations. Sure, the longer run will not be kind to those buying liquid fueled trucks or those running or looking for gas stations or those in the FF infrastructure. But in the time frame you’re talking about that massive contraction of the FF complex will just be starting.

Dan F.

In a few years time about 1.5 to 2.0 million (depending on the economy) ICE powered pickups will be sold in the U.S. Some percentage will hybridized to some degree or other; almost all will go to people generally considered to be in their right mind.

bradley cross

Following the Tesla PR model. Talk about future stuff every 2 weeks. Whereas other companies normally say nothing publicly, just leak to a few friends in the media

Doggydogworld

Right. Like Volkswagen. You never hear a word from them about future EV models until they’re ready to ship in volume. /s

Andy

The big difference is that one is a private company (Rivian) and the other two are public. The latter two have to release lots of information to persuade people to buy/keep their shares. The private company doesn’t need to release anything public.

MikeG

Rivian appears to have mastered one of the necessary skills for a compelling EV–battery design and construction. Whether they have the battery supply chain in place that can deliver the numbers of cells they need will determine how many vehicles they can produce. There is no lack of demand for these vehicles, so production will ultimately be constrained by battery supply.

James
And cost. They go hand in hand, but $69,000 – $90,000 even for s truck of the R1T’s impressive capabilities is not going to capture enough market share. The Tesla model was for Roadster to prove concept, Model S to make waves starting with big money influencers, and Model 3 to reach everyman. I’m everyman, but I reached to buy my 3. In a world where people regularly buy Acura or other entry level premium brand SUVs for $50,000, the 3 is just slightly dipping It’s toes into suburbia. I actually voted for the $35,000 Model 3 by purchasing my $49,000 M3. Knowing if we don’t buy massive numbers, Tesla will never reach that entry-level price. Tax incentives will go away. I’m not so optimistic Rivian can accomplish success on their present business plan. First, Rivian should strike a deal with Tesla to use Superchargers. Second, a deal with Panasonic to share battery cell output from a new battery plant along with other manufacturer/s. Third, Rivian should do a commercial panel van. The RV industry buys these vans as well as many small, medium and large businesses. Rivian could spin off an AWD Adventure RV replete with solar panels and… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu

I expect commodity battery supply for EVs is going to grow faster than Rivian’s production over then next few years. There may come a time when Rivian will need to take control of its own battery cell supply, as Tesla and BYD have, but in the near term I expect they can get enough supply that it won’t be a constraint on their production.

Tom

The Subaru Baja is dead! Long live the Subaru Baja! Note: Bought a 2005 with 5 speed for my high school son. We live on a gravel road in the middle of nowhere winter country so very handy. ‘Every ditch is a potential parking spot’ was his words after taking it to school a few days. Coolest Dad ever….please don’t crash it…please don’t crash it. That’s why I hold out hope for Subaru. Make me a Baja version of that Crosstrek PHEV please. The stock rims on the Crosstrek fit the Baja nicely by the way. I haven’t done it but have seen it done numerous times and they look sharp.

Steve

I’d consider that Crosstrek PHEV if it had a decent 0-60. I’m a big fan of Subaru but it is very hard to find one of their ‘outdoorsy’ models that can get to highway speeds in a decent time.

My 6 cylinder outback is BARRRELY acceptable.

Tom

You can get an old Baja with one of those WRX engines in it. Insane vehicle. Note: I didn’t get the WRX engine for my kid…I have to pay the insurance.

CDAVIS

To Rivian’s credit they have developed concept EVs that are being well received and generating positive market buzz… hopefully volume production will follow.

Going from concept car to volume production is a huge challenge that is normal business for establishied car makers but very few new entrant car mamers survive that challenge… hopefully Rivian will prove out to be one of those survivors.

It may turn out that the future of automotive will be comprised mostly of new market entrants (like Tesla and perhaps also Rivian) starting out from a clean sheet… no legacy constructs to hold them back.

Steve

Tesla needs to figure out some kind of equity investment in Rivian – like Toyota has partial ownership of Subaru. Get Tesla resources behind these new vehicles, and a fresh batch of 200,000 $75000 federal tax credit eligible vehicles!!

MoMac

I don’t understand the “fresh batch of 200,000 $75000 federal tax credit” phrase.

Do you mean Tesla getting a tax credit by buying Rivian?
If so, that is not how it works. It is per manufacturer; and all divisions and subsidiaries (wholly owned or majority owned).

Lou Grinzo

Can we all agree that if Rivian builds and sells more BEVs in the US than, say, Ford or GM or FCA or Honda or Toyota, that we’ll all line up and mock those Legacies mercilessly?

Andy

Agreed. But their current production forecast says they will be building around 50,000 a year by 2025, so they have an extremely long way to go.

ModernMarvelFan

Taking a page from the Tesla play book. Design a cool car to draw free attention and coverage to the brand and increase brand capital.

Kosh

Has anyone ever seen him and Elon in the same room together?……

Bill Howland

Let me know when they have made, say, 50 of these things. At that point things get serious. But I don’t have enough info on these things yet, not even if they are a serious business. But starting out with releasing very little information I doubt is the way to do it. The first Tesla roadster had all sorts of information available for it – probably explaining its worldwide popularity.

MoMac

At what point was the info available on the original Tesla Roadster; during the first reveal?

Mikael

USe same platform and make a killer MPV ish something.

DS

Rally cars are bubble-hatches these days, so the odds of it being both ‘lifted’ and ‘rally like’ are pretty small.

However, if Rivian wants to revert back to the Golden Group A Impreza/Celica sized cars than I will be there.

David Wolff

I’ll get exited when they actually start producing a few thousand a month and survive economically for a full year after that…Not much on the dog and pony show of unveils from legacy, or anyone. Mostly it’s just advertising AKA the new superbowl commercial. They should have no problem finding investors now that Tesla has shown a ground up EV company is possible.

Tid

Hey Rivian, can you make me an electric motorcycle with at least 150 mile range for highway driving, 300 miles for city driving? 0-60 acceleration not too important, top speed at least 90 mph. It is important that it be able to charge to 80-90% in 30 minutes or even better 15 minutes at a fast CCS charger. Not important if it has a single motor or one for each wheel. Elon is afraid of motorcycles, so you won’t have to worry about competition from Tesla.

windbourne

I wish that they would do a panel van similar to the sprinter. It would not be good for plumbers or any vehicle that just drives to a single site and stays. BUT for deliveries, it would be ideal.

Mike Holm

It’s still not a contractors truck. It is too nice to get bashed up and it doesn’t have the room for a lot of materials

Michael Will

Can’t wait to see the first production quality car out there and for Rivian to IPO. It all looks and sounds very promising so far. If they carry enough of the innovations of apples car project in them, battery technology wise, not just usb-c, this could be en par with tesla. Traditional automakers like Audi with their etron are doomed.