New Nissan LEAF Sales Booming, 9,000 In Less Than 2 Months

Nissan LEAF

OCT 26 2017 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 128

2018 Nissan LEAF

Sales/orders of the new Nissan LEAF in under 2 months and in limited markets have already exceeded the amount of sales in 12 months of the first-gen LEAF when it went on sale back in 2010.

Electric Cars

2018 Nissan LEAF

Nissan Europe EV Director Gareth Dunsmore says he’s thrilled by the level of interest in the new 2018 LEAF. According to Dunsmore, some 3,500 new LEAFs have been sold in Europe, despite only being available there since early September.

Even more impressive perhaps is the total figure, which Dunsmore says stands at 9,000 strong in terms of new LEAF orders (not all delivered yet) in Europe and Japan combined.

Dunsmore says that new LEAF orders have far exceed the automaker’s expectations, though he didn’t provide a figure for comparison between actual versus expectations.

Norway was the first European country to get the new LEAF. Ordering there opened up in early September. More recent, on October 2, order books opened in Germany, Austria, France and the Netherlands. Speaking just of Norway, Dunsmore stated:

“They have been our first customers and our most loyal customers and we wanted to give something back to the people who trusted us from Day One back in 2010 and 2011.”

“…more than 2,000 existing and new customers in Norway already have purchased the LEAF.”

Asako Hoshino, Nissan’s senior vice president and head of Japan operations, confirmed these higher-than-expected order figures for the new LEAF at the Tokyo Motor Show just yesterday.

As for the new LEAF”s launch in the U.S. (full details/watch live launch here), it will start to arrive in late December/January, bringing with it a refreshed (and less polarizing) look, and ~150 miles of real-world/EPA range – up 40%…for about $700 less.

Source: Automotive News Europe

Categories: Nissan, Sales

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128 Comments on "New Nissan LEAF Sales Booming, 9,000 In Less Than 2 Months"

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Tom

Awesome. It is entirely possible that the Leaf will beat the Model 3 in sales in 2018 worldwide if Tesla continues to struggle to scale the Model 3. We might see 150,000 Leafs blowing in the wind.
Nissan can scale quickly. In the US for instance the auto and battery plant were built for 4 times what it was used for.

Micke Larsson

No, just no.

Gazz

Yes. Its a simpler car with a smaller battery. Three factories on three different continents.

Dav8or

Agreed. Nissan actually knows how to make loads of cars quickly. Tesla apparently does not. Also, Nissan is actually targeting a mass market and Tesla not so much.

Nissan will be the big winner in Europe for sure. Here in America it will be a bit more of a toss up between Leaf, Bolt and Model 3, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Leaf comes out on top and if they do, Chevy would be smart to counter with a lower cost Bolt with a smaller 40kw battery pack. Should be really easy for them to do.

sveno

The huge difference between Tesla and Nissan is that Leaf is NOTHING new besides the battery and the powertrain. It is understandable to a degree but like other OEMs – Nissan too is spending time sitting on the ICE/EV fence.

The biggest dealbreakers for me:
1. Want a new, better battery? Buy a new car!
2. Want new software? Buy a new car!

Glen

I thought I read Nissan was offering over the wire software updates with the new Leaf?

Dav8or

And the exterior design and the interior and the features. But other than the battery, powertrain, exterior, interior and features, what’s new about the 2018 Leaf??

Who says they won’t offer software upgrades? Who says you won’t be able to take your Leaf in and swap in the 60kw battery in the future? You make a lot of assumptions.

sveno

I am talking how Nissan has conducted business with Leaf so far. These aren’t assumptions – this is the reality for everybody who currently owns a Leaf. I am wrong? What software enhancements have you gotten over the years? Are you able to order a 30kWh replacement pack for your 24kWh one?

What signs have you seen that Nissan operates differently with the 2018 Leaf?

Tim Miser

Yes you are wrong. Nissan has had at least one software update if I recall correctly on certain models and yes, you can buy a 30kw pack to replace the 24 kw pack on earlier leafs.

sveno

I haven’t seen any proof to your claims.

You can only swap your older 24kWh pack to a newer version of the same capacity. They are mechanically not compatible. Perhaps someone has made a 3rd party adapter or has swapped the cells with the 30kWh version. Renault offers pack upgrades for Zoe however – maybe thats what you meant?

Also software update does not mean software enhancement. A lot of the easy-to-fix issues that older versions have have been addressed but only in newer models of the car. Some things made worse – like disabling the option to turn off fake sound or limit max SoC.

JoeP

Very convincing!

L'amata

I’ll take it ! Short Range and ALL!

Mark.ca

Unless you’re a taxi driver its range is fine.

L'amata

NOooo I need more Cow Bell !! More range @ least 310 plus for me. No I don’t & never have driven Taxi…l m a o ..you funny guy….cheers !

Mark.ca

As soon as you pull your head out of Tesla ass you will see this is a great car. Is it dark in there?

Will

Mark I thought you were a big tesla cheerleader

Mark.ca

I’m a fan of anyone that has a genuine interest in promoting evs. Tesla is my #1 but Nissan is not that far behind.

Paul Smith

Nissan tight ass is harder on the nose. With crooked nose, you smell bad.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Or you live somewhere cold and regularly drive over 100 miles.

wavelet

What do you mean by “no”? If market-wise, they’re not really competing cars.
The Leaf is a compact car, which is the leading size class in Europe & Japan (it’s virtually same-size as the Golf, Europe’s longstanding bestselling car); the Model 3 is a mid-size. And of course, at least for the next year, the Leaf will only be a mid-range, 150mi car, and for the next few months at least (I suspect in practice more like 6-9 months), the Model 3 will be available only with the 310mi “long range” battery.
If you mean that Nissan won’t be able to scale production as far as Tesla will, that depends on how successful Tesla is in actually making 400-500K Model 3 units/year… (-;

Lawrence

It’s more like a “no” as in with a desperate cry and wailing.

DJ

The new Leaf should sell really well. No real reason not to when you compare it to how the 1st gen has gone.

Spider-Dan

I was thinking of another Matrix “No”:

John Ray

The Leaf is officially classified as a mid-size car if I am not mistaken. Not sure about the Model 3.

zzzzzzzzzz

2017 Leaf has 92 ft3 passenger volume and 24 ft3 luggage. It puts it into 110-120 ft total “mid-size cars” EPA class:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38428

Model 3 is not finalized for real mass production yet, passenger volume is still a secret. Luggage volume was announced as 15 ft3.

Model S has 94+26 ft3. If Model 3 has the same passenger volume, it would be 94+15=109 ft3, or “compact cars” EPA class. E.g 4 door Civic has 98+15 ft3. Corolla – 98+13 ft3.

Sure all these numbers are totally irrelevant for true fanboys. They will swear you that Model 3 space and size are immense and will go to infinity and beyond, way more than Escalade!

bogdan

Model 3 is much smaller than many people wish for. Its similar to a BMW 3 series and that’s not a spacious car. Considering the interior, the Model 3 is not more spacious than Leaf.

Model 3 will still sell good, because Tesla already has a brand name and it will pass the premium manufacturers very soon. Even the worst petrol head admits the electric cars are better than ICE when he gets the chance to drive one.

The premium manufacturers aren’t planing to go big in the EV industry and it’s already too late for them. Imagine a all electric AUDI A8 or Mercedes S-class to compete with Model S. They would only make fools of themselves. Tesla will be taking over the premium business in short.

And don’t hope for an electric BMW 3 series or Mercedes. It won’t happen. For the same reason I stated above.
The premium car makers have a few more years, 10 at most. After that, they will end their business.

Will

Dream on dream on ?

Glen

The hatch shape is the best selling car shape world wide and its for this reason Nissan chose to build the LEAF in the hatch style. To maximise the appeal to the biggest group of new car buyers.

jimjfox

Meaningless-you sound butt-hurt, Mikael!

Alan

The UK will probably buy 30k of these next year so that is entirely possible.

Someone out there

They can certainly make enough gliders but can they find enough batteries for that many cars?

Tom

The battery plants are co-located with the automobile plants. Just because they sold the battery operation doesn’t mean they switch suppliers despite rumor and innuendo.
http://www.dnj.com/story/news/2017/10/10/nissan-smyrna-battery-plant-expand/750204001/

Graeme Kerry

They don’t need to find them. They have 3 plants around the world where they build the batteries themselves (sale of the battery business currently going through but they will have a strong supply deal with the new owner). The capacity of these plants far exceeds the current production rate. That is the reason behind the sale, to allow the independent owner to more easily sell the extra capacity to rival car companies to achieve greater economies of scale.

Cavaron

“It is entirely possible that the Leaf will beat the Model 3 in sales in 2018”
I would agree, if you had written “in 2017” 😉

bogdan

Just wait and see for yourself.
Tesla won’t be able to ramp up so fast.
Meanwhile, Leaf will sell like hot cake.

William L.

I hope they can outsell Tesla M3, that’s a big win for everyone.

Woods

Without AWD, Leaf won’t work well in the snow belt. AFAIK, model 3 will have an AWD version.

Glen

Leaf works quite well in Norway which is well past the “snow belt” and into the ice belt. In fact, the Leaf is the best selling EV in Norway by some margin – twice its nearest competitor. And to those who talk about it not being suited to really cold weather, operating in Norway’s -30 degrees celsius is a lot colder then it gets in America

Paul K

Sorry bud: Equipped with proper winter tires my Leaf has travelled through snow up to the axles with no hopping or torque steer. When I was a kid there might have been one AWD in town. We Canadians know a thing or two about driving in snow.

Ziv

Knowing how to drive in snow is an art that is disappearing in more temperate locales. I grew up on the High Line in Montana and I could go places in my RWD that AWD owners in MD and VA wouldn’t dare.
BUT, given the extra weight and the traction control on my Volt, it would be a good car for a deep snow tyro. It digs through the snow and finds traction, albeit while plowing a 4″ high trench in the snow with the low air dam…

jimjfox

“I might be moving to Montana soon
To grow me up a crop of…. dental floss”
Unquote.

ziv

My family doesn’t raise crops of dental floss, but oddly enough, we do have a pygmy pony.

Davi

I don’t know when AWD became an obsession for car owners. I live in Maine and have resisted the hype for years. FWD and a set of good snow shoes is all you need. The only better set up is AWD with snow tires, which is only marginally better if you know how to drive in the snow, which unfortunately most people don’t. AWD with or without good tires gives a false sense of security because it leads to faster acceleration and overconfidence in choosing the right speed for the conditions. It’s also simple physics – heavier vehicles going faster take far longer to stop in bad weather. Away most people do their driving on paved roads that are subject to poor weather maybe during 10-20 actual days a year up here. Most business in cold weather places slows down or shuts down during big winter events as well. There are so few rational reasons to need this feature and only one irrational one – consumerism and marketing hype. Take it from someone who drives a snow plow truck commercially and has been on the road for every snow storm for 15 years. Seen it all.

Ziv

BAck in 2013 the DC area had 3 pretty heavy snowstorms in a row, we had a fairly deep base with 2 layers of snow added on top of it. For the first week people continued to brake late and try to accelerate out of corners. Spin outs all over. They didn’t know how to use momentum on hills nor did they know how to creep out of snowy spots. Traction control only does so much.
Anyway, after 3 weeks of snowy conditions, I noticed that people were driving demonstrably better. Fewer cars spinning out, fewer stuck cars even though the snow was deeper after the third storm than the first one. I was amazed.
One year later we got another fairly heavy, (comparatively) snow storm. Cars spun out, people forgot everything they learned the year before. Argh.

Davi
We’re guaranteed to get 10 to 20 snow events every year and the same pattern repeats itself. Poor driving by people who should be used to this weather by now. Continually see people that are overconfident in their driving abilities or vehicle capabilities that shouldn’t be driving in the conditions getting in the way of people trying make the roads safe for them. Funny how the people with essential jobs – cops, for example, do everything they can to stay off the road in these conditions unless someone’s poor choices pulls them out into a dangerous scenario. Anyway, I don’t own an EV yet. Maine doesn’t incentivize and my people around here myself included don’t make enough for EV federal tax credits. Test drove the Bolt, but the front seat was too cramped for passengers with the star trek like bubble console in the way of my knees and I’m only 5’9″ 185lbs. Otherwise it was good, but we’re really waiting for prices to drop and range to increase so it’s useful for 100 mile round-trips in bitter cold. With mindless consumers continuing to whine about needing AWD when realistically less than 1% of drivers actually need it, manufacturers are… Read more »
Miggy

In the RHD markets the Leaf will outsell the GM Bolt and even the Tesla Model 3 at least until 2020.

Benz

The Nissan Leaf sales numbers in 2018 will be higher than they ever have been before. That’s for sure. But how high can they go?

In Japan they could go very high indeed, as there are many fast chargers in the country, and the 40 kWh battery pack provides enough range for every day. Therefore, I think that they might sell around 50,000 in Japan in 2018.

Europe: 60,000?
US: 40,000?

Someone out there

It’s hardly surprising since the market is so much more developed now than in 2010. Great news nonetheless. I’m sure that this new LEAF will sell way better than the old one throughout its commercial lifetime, I just hope they don’t take another 7 years to refresh it again. If the 60 kWh battery comes in 2018 I expect to see an 80+ kWh battery in 2020.

Hugh

Is there room to squeeze an 80 kWh battery in the space occupied by a 40 kWh battery?

ziv

Not on the current platform but it looks like they do have the space needed for a 60 kWh pack. 60 kWh would give the Leaf a decent amount of range, and it sounds like it will be sold within a year.

mx

Chemistry improvements.

Someone out there

I would expect the energy density to have increased by then so that 80 kWh takes little more space than today’s 60 kWh. Especially if we are moving towards solid state, that will make a huge difference.

Gene

I’m curious to learn what inspires you to expect such developments by 2020? My impression from the past ~decade of battery development that’s made it to market has been minor improvements to cathode chemistries to reduce aging effects, with very little improvement in energy densities. The vehicle manufacturers are shoe-horning larger batteries into the vehicles by market demand, but that doesn’t necessarily imply greater energy densities. There are numerous developmental efforts (e.g. sodium ion, zinc-air) that are still far from the market from what I understand.

Someone out there

> I’m curious to learn what inspires you to expect such developments by 2020?

There have been tons of promising developments already, together with a huge, billion dollar market for anyone who succeeds. This attracts investments and research which will deliver results.

alohart

Our 2014 BMW i3 has a 22 kWh battery pack whose cells are manufactured by Samsung SDI. The 2017 i3 has a 33 kWh battery pack with the Samsung SDI cells that are exactly the same physical size, so they are 50% more energy dense. The rumor is that the 2019 i3 will have a 44 kWh battery whose Samsung SDI cells are exactly the same physical size as those in the 22 kWh and 33 kWh battery packs, so these cells are twice as energy dense as those in our 2014 i3.

This doubling of energy density occurred in 5 years and is real.

Gene

Thanks, alohart. I looked into it a bit and indeed BMW & Samsung were able to increase energy density by “tweaking the electrolyte levels” for the 33 kWh pack. Nice! And real world is right.

jimjfox

https://www.nature.com/articles/nenergy2016147

Interesting. Opinion amongst battery researchers seems to be that L-Ion is nearing end-of-life status & completely different chemistry will be needed.

Pete

Leaf the old and the new bestseller. The Model 3 will not surpass the Leaf in 2018… 🙂

leafowner

I doubt it — only if the Model 3 ramp up goes horribly.

Quebec 100% EV

…which it is going horribly, so far.

ziv

So far, but it is beginning to look like October numbers will be right where September numbers were supposed to be. If Tesla is only a month behind, the Leaf won’t have a chance to beat the 3 sales figures in the US or in the world in 2018. But we won’t know how the 3 is really doing until the first week of December, and possibly not until the first week of January.
Here is hoping Tesla can get the kinks out of the system quickly! And the best of luck to Nissan in finding a ton of buyers for the new Leaf, it is all good.

ffbj

That’s my view.

leafowner

I’m not down on Nissan — heck I have a Leaf. The Leaf does not have the “buzz” around it like Tesla….the only thing holding Tesla down from selling a million a year is their current production capacity…..A high percentage of people I know want one (not so true for the new Leaf)

I hope the Leaf sells great — heck I may even lease another and trade in the current one I own as the range really sux…but they do not stand a chance against the Model 3 one on one…

bogdan

I agree, Tesla has the buzz and the supercharger network, which is worth a lot for the customers.

jimjfox

Not as much to M3 owners- no free charging?

ziv

Both of the people I work with that have ordres in on the 3 are more into the buzz than the SuperCharging network. One doesn’t know what the network is and the other one doesn’t want to take the 3 to the beach (her longest trip in most years). She has a husband to drive and a couple kids to tote, plus a dog so she will continue to take the Rogue.

Jonathan B

Apparently none of these people know what battery degradation or TMS is.

Alan

Perhaps that is less of a problem in more temperate climates.

Tom

Such as all of Europe, all of Japan, and the majority of the US. Not everyone lives in Arizona.

Mark.ca

But half of all US evs are sold in Cali…but i get what you are saying…that lone Montana buyer will be happy.

Bill Howland

The leaf battery should do all right in places like San Francisco… As Mark Twain quipped:

“The WORST Winter I ever spent was the Summer I spent in San Francisco.”

Mark.ca

How true, SF summers are nonexistent.

Gene

GCR has been requesting any stories that show heat-related degradation since Nissan introduced the lizard battery in 2015. No one has responded with anything yet. One poster finally linked a blog a couple weeks ago, but even in that story the degradation that occurred was sudden and had no apparent correlation to heat.

Have you got a real story to share, or could you just be propagating a myth?

Glen

Well said! There are so many comments by so many people about this issue and hardly any facts, just heresy!

Leaf

i ordered the 2.zero edition in germany beginning of october and now received the delivery date of end of february… spring cloud color seems to be available end of march. quite some time 🙁

Alok

Congrats !
Oh, time will fly !
And waiting for something desired…
There can be a huge joy in it.
Isn’t it?

Alaa

I heard a rummer that Nissan will start assembling these cars in EGYPT.

Alan

What’s a rummer ?

mx

A Rumor needing more rum.

Lurfy

Egypt levies duty of 40-135% and tax of 10-40% on imported vehicles. Of course manufacturer will consider building there to eliminate these fees.

Another Euro point of view

I wish the Nissan Leaf a lot of success, now this car is advertised where I live for EUR 36’000 ($42’000). That is still a lot of money when comparable ICE is sold EUR 22K. One can buy a lot of petrol for EUR 14K and likely the ICE version will holds its value better due to fast battery obsolescence.
So I am still not convinced either by range or by price (not to say limited charging possibilities) and hope we soon see improvements on all fronts (I stick with my 2020 predictions for parity with ICE regarding price, range & practicality).

Will

Do you guys have incentives, rebates, and tax credits that will reduce the price of the EV where you live

Another Euro point of view

Unfortunately no.

Will

That’s bad

leafowner

This car should sell well – especially if people want a Model 3 and can’t get one.

A lot too will depend if GM lowers the price of the Bolt — as I’d pay a $3-4k premium for the 70 mile added range and the overall more robust battery system — just not $8k+

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

No Active TMS nos Sale!

ffbj

Yes. It’s one of fundamental things that all evs should have. It may not matter much for the first few years but then the battery will begin degrade at a faster rate.
It’s physics.

Will

If you have good credit just lease it, if will have a new leaf every 2 years

Lawrence

Very true. TMS is low on my list of wants, but isn’t on my top lists of must haves, especially when leasing. I have an EV with no TMS and after 45K miles and three years, I still have 89% capacity.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

LEASE = Long Term Rental

ffbj

Here’s a possible way to increase range, at least worth consideration.

Ziv

I wish they had at least charged back to 87% before they had started the second leg with the different hubcaps. And that they went on a long run from 90% to 55% the next day, then turned around, returned to the CHAdeMO charger and recharged to 90% and did the same run from 90% to 55% (same turn around point or not?) and then turned around again.
I doubt the hubcaps give more than a 3-5% increase in AER, but you never know.

leafowner

nicely done…

Lawrence

Thanks Captain Obvious!

Benz

“Nissan Europe EV Director Gareth Dunsmore says he’s thrilled by the level of interest in the new 2018 LEAF. According to Dunsmore, some 3,500 new LEAFs have been sold in Europe, despite only being available there since early September.”

But have they also been delivered already in Europe?

Will

Depends, I say no. No videos of new leads youtube, or its NDA?. Dealers order there quantities based on the market

MaartenV-nl

He is talking about legally binding sales contracts between Nissan Europe and the customers.
This is a “Build to Order” market. Dealers don’t order cars that are not sold except as showroom and testdrive models.

The last thing a dealer wants is an unsold car on his lot, that is a money looser.

Glen

Preorders of the new Leaf are available in some markets in Europe. Only Norway and Germany from what I have read. And a preorder is a customer order not a unit order by a dealership.

MaartenV-nl

Those are not preorders but real orders. We call that sales in Europe.
A preorder is a tentative order when and if available.
An order is a definitive sales agreement, that often has conditions for nullification at a (big) cost.

The business model in most of Europe for car sales is build to order.

MaartenV-nl

They will be delivered after they are produced.
In a “build to order” market like most of Europe, the factory only builds a car after there is a legally binding sales contract for that car.

The time between the sale and the delivery is seldom less than two months, and can easily be longer than half a year.

John

Glad it’s getting a good reception. However, we leased a Leaf for three years and I would never buy another where we live until they get active liquid TMS for the battery, which it looks like they are not going to do.

Mark

Where do you live John? According to blog from leaf owner in Ottawa Canada, lack of tms is problem in cold climates too. Seems EV without TMS is best for climates which don’t drop below -5c and high 20c? Unless it’s 3yr lease

John

Southern California. It gets into the 100 (f) here in summer. We babied our Leaf. Garaged, kept it out of town some of the hottest weeks. Still lost 2 bars capacity in 22K miles use.

We now have a Spark. TMS is very good. You can hear the fans and pumps running and gurgling when it’s on or plugged in to cool it off, and it will even kick on the AC on its own if needed.

ffbj

It was an decision made a quite a while ago, a bad one imo. Adding TMS would probably add a few thousand to the price to pay for the redesign. Nissan did not want to do that.

Dan

In the US sales for mass market EVs will tank once the tax credit (and state incentives) are gone unless they can drop the price by a comparable amount.

I have a Leaf test drive (they bring it to you) scheduled for Jan. 4 and may well buy one in ’19 (or optionally a new phev one of which I lease now) but wouldn’t dream of buying w/o the $10k of tax credit and incentive here in CA.

The real (market) value of EVs is best measured in the used market where there are no incentives and real utility is the determining value.

William

The California CVRP has not been recently funded, the $ 2,500. is a potential problematic waiting game. So $7,500. Fed is only available now.

Jay Cole
“In the US sales for mass market EVs will tank once the tax credit (and state incentives) are gone unless they can drop the price by a comparable amount.” Just to qualify this. Yes, it will/would have a short term effect, but BEV sales won’t tank by any stretch…the unexpected consequence is the vehicle segment that OEMs actually want to build (PHEVs – good old ICE + battery) will likely be punished long-term in the US if that happens. We already see these sort of splits with unbalanced incentives between the techs elsewhere…most “zero emission” mandates exclude PHEVs. So, OEMs have forced compliance on all-electric vehicles thanks to CARB (2% credits in 2018, 4% in 2019, 6% in 2020, 8% in 2022, 10% in 2023…etc)…to speak nothing of the external worldwide pressure on their ‘scaled globally’ production offerings that are dealing with outright bans on ICE, or at least tougher fleet CO2 regulations. So in reality, what will happen is that OEMs will ‘eat’ their margins and/or sell BEVs at a loss to continue ‘other’ vehicles. To be fair, and we have seen already that in many cases, plug-ins today are artificially “marked up” with OEMs knowing there is a… Read more »
Jay Cole
Nutshell & sidenote to all of that: The reason we see the sales we do today has little to do with the pricing of the vehicles themselves (outside of Tesla)…its the forced mandate to have them there. While EVs still only make up 1 or 2% of the monthly sales in the US, pricing is (and will be) a reflection of the maximum amount of money that an OEM deems it can extract from the consumer, while still selling the minimum number of required compliance vehicles. When we get to 5-10%, OEMs will be forced to look at EVs as a core component of their business…and one that will eventually will be the majority. At that point, if they have been just pissing around, gaming the systems, and not building out their capacities, streamlining/down-sizing their systems, and building out a loyal base to buy their EVs…it will be too late, and they will be replaced. Right now, it appears that only BMW (with PHEVs as a solution) and the Alliance (maybe Daimler with BEVs) have truly accepted the change is coming and are being proactive (while admittedly yes still selling ICE vehicles as hard as they can), but there is… Read more »
Benz

Jay,

Do you think that the Chevrolet Bolt EV is a compliance car?

How many Bolts do you think that GM wants to sell in a year?

James
Bolt EV and Volt are most definately compliance cars. Depends upon what you focus your compliance nomenclature on. The ins and outs of laws in the USA and abroad have created an environment where some form of compliance was required of ICE OEMs. Most interesting have been the tacks each carmaker has taken in response to the changing environments here and abroad. How many Bolts did GM want to produce? That’s a loaded question, but the answer is: As many as needed to make a statement in regards to Tesla yet curtail losses due to the high cost to manufacture. Enough to collect all available ZEV credits and conform to state and federal mandates here and abroad. In GM’s own words, they suggested 30,000 units to be sufficient. Today we hear them starting to use the “Gee, people just don’t want EVs” excuse as Bolt EVs sit on lots at $40,000 apiece. These statements will fade as LEAFs sell in the 70-100,000 range and if Tesla can get it’s act together and pump out M3s post haste. We, the electric car community have waited for that breakout vehicle – the one that proved affordable, practical and meaningful enough for car… Read more »
Jay Cole
Benz said, Jay Do you think that the Chevrolet Bolt EV is a compliance car? — I think the Bolt is two things to GM (and understand I am not speaking for the site here, but for myself). First, it is a “compliance car”…GM needed an all-electric car out and quickly to start stockpiling “travel provision” ZEV credit for 2018 on…this is that car. Second, it is a “halo car”…so it has great value to the GM brand in this regard, so even if the margin is bad (or its not making money in places it isn’t picking up regulatory offsets), it has a large value to showing it off, having it as part of commercials, and having it at least available in other markets. One needs to remember GM spend some ~$3.7 billion in advertising, so spitting out lost leaders in none-regulatory areas has value to GM. — The issue with GM’s plug-in program/offerings, and it has always has been this way, is that they are just spitting out (relatively speaking) limited ceiling/novelty EVs, all produced a short car ride from their HQ in Michigan, utilizing spare capacity from plants that are widely considered the (and forgive the terminology… Read more »
James

Exactamundo!

Been the same since the onset of electrified cars from OEMs.

Kudos to Nissan for figuring out how to bring true long-range BEVs into reality while gently transitioning to an EV-dominant future.

chop

it’s been funded as of earlier this month. https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/faqs/what-does-rebate-waitlist-mean-me

Update 10/10/2017: The Legislature approved $140M in Cap-and-Trade auction proceeds for CVRP on 9/16/2017. Waitlisted applications will be paid with this funding. However, we anticipate that it will take several months to receive the funding. Once we receive funding, we will issue rebate checks for approved applications as quickly as possible. We should know more about the end of the waitlist and when waitlisted applicants can expect to receive their rebate checks in November. Additional updates will be provided here as they become known.

John

A bill passed just recently to fund the CVRP but they haven’t received the FY 2017-18 funding yet. It will take a couple of months, but those on the waiting list will get their rebates.

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/faqs/what-does-rebate-waitlist-mean-me

Reddy

“They have been our first customers and our most loyal customers and we wanted to give something back to the people who trusted us from Day One back in 2010 and 2011.” How about a 40 KWh replacement battery for the original 2010/2011 Leaf? Heck, I’d even take a 24 KWh replacement for $2000 instead of that ridiculous $6500 (more than the value of my 2011 Leaf).

Call me FUD

Yeah, give me money. I was dumb enough to be a first adobter.

Mr. M

6.500$ is the price for a new 24kWh battery, you can also try to find a used one to buy it cheaper.

Batteries are expensive this doesn’t magically changes because your car gets old…

Tony Marco

No surprise here – As predicted before Nissan will continue to DOMINATE the EV market, TMS or not!

People are hungry for a solution for a gas guzzler and Nissan has the Leaf priced right for most!

There’s a reason it’s the World’s Best Selling EV!

ffbj

They dominate the low end.

Samwise

And while they remain the only real option at that end they will sell like hot cakes. Nissan inherently understand this and I’m not sure why nobody but them seems to be able to see it.
It’s simple really, you work out how much people are willing to spend and build the best car you can for that amount.
Simply building the best car you can and then charging what it costs to build won’t change the fact your customers may not be able to afford it.

James

Not a surprise.

LEAF will sell great in America too. It’s price, and NISSAN was smart to put out the 40kwh version first.

GM was so blinded to beat Tesla to market, they didn’t realize the public (beyond affluent early adopters) will think twice before dishing out $35-40,000 for a subcompact with a hard plastic interior.

Leaf has a bit better touchpoints and finishes and sells for a good bit less. The ramp up in volume will make the 60kwh less painful for Nissan to produce, and maybe even profitable.

At that, hindsight being 20/20 GM should have come out with a 40kwh Bolt EV first and then followed in 2018-19 with the 238 mile version.

GM never forgot MSRP matters. They did, however, out themselves to the fact they never intended to mass produce EVs until literally forced to.

ModernMarvelFan

“a subcompact with a hard plastic interior”

That subcompact somehow has more interior passenger volume than that “midsize” LEAF which is a slow fugly POS that cost more than $30K…

James

I like the Bolt EV. What’s not to like about 238 miles AER?

You and I understand and prioritize things like a thermally controlled battery pack. The car buying masses do not. This is my point. LEAF is less niche and more mainstream. It’s price will make it a sales leader.

Early adopters cannot make a car succeed in the marketplace. Whooopie if a car sells 20-30,000 per year. LEAF has a good balance of price, standard features, options and those things like soft surfaces that sell cars. It’s MSRP is more in line with It’s size.

Pro Pilot is another advantage and selling point.

Interior volume can be a misleading spec. Bolt has a very small cargo area if the rear seats are up. If headroom is your priority, yes Bolt wins over LEAF. I don’t see LEAF’s interior room costing many sales. For the Volt with a V? Absolutely. Poor packaging for an otherwise great car.

If LEAF 2.5 with 60kwh pack ends up priced at $40,000 with air cooled battery pack, the Bolt would seem a better deal despite It’s compromised interior materials and lack if ACC.

James

LEAF 2.0 should not be a surprise to anyone. GM made a fine BEV in Bolt, but the targeted buyer was the early adopter.

Early adopters aren’t out there in the millions, but in the small 10s of thousands. We are car guys, engineers and tech types. We know the difference between a thermally-protected pack and an air cooled one.

The masses? They don’t and they don’t care. A large share of LEAFs are leased. Who cares if the pack lasts or not? It’s a rental!

GM’s strategy was never to sell 100,000s of Bolts – in fact, a ZEV move for them. There surely will be a 40kwh “base” Bolt EV in the future, after the demise of the tax credit. But GM is “back-asswards” in it’s approach. Nissan is doing it right.

DNAinaGoodWay

A 2018 Leaf reservation costs nothing. My local dealer, with whom I’m still friendly even though I Bolted, asked me to make one just so they could get a bigger allotment. But I’m sure they’ll sell if they discount them quickly enough before the 60 kWh Leaf arrives.

Martin Tesar

Yep Nissan can really do this and deliver, Tesla still getting up to speed and GM seems to be giving up on both its lead and supplying EV demand World wide other than USA & China.

Brave Lil' Toaster.

” ~150 miles of real-world/EPA range – up 40%…for about $700 less.”

In America.

In Canada, where Nissan has always shown about as much enthusiasm for the Leaf as an inmate on his way to his lethal injection, the price for the base-model S trim is $2,000 *more* in 2018 over 2017.

So yeah.

Jay Cole

Well, that is as much a function of Ontario as anything else, as all OEMs like to hoover up as much incentive money as they can.

A year and a half ago you got $8,500 off the LEAF in Ontario…today you get $14,000. So dollars-to-donuts you are still way ahead. The result is Ontario is now the EV center of Canada and the gains are growing fast as people are figuring this out.

/there is no places other than Ontario right?
//Ontario has destroyed everyone outside of the province has to deal with this blended MSRP bump from OEMs