UPDATE – Toyota Prius Prime – High Voltage Battery Removal Video

JUL 12 2018 BY MARK KANE 62

The Toyota Prius Prime (also known as Prius Plug-In) is currently the second best selling plug-in electric car in the U.S. and one of the most popular globally (but mostly thanks to North America and Japan).

***UPDATE – New video in series added directly below:

Here is the second video from the series, with an in-depth look at the Prius Prime battery pack:

The 8.8 kWh battery utilized in Prius Prime enables it to go 25 miles (EPA) in all-electric mode. Thanks to professor John D. Kelly at Weber State University (WSU), we can now take a look at the battery pack.

In the first part of the disassembly video, we learn mostly about the battery pack and related components, not so much related to the Panasonic-supplied cells.

  • 8.79 kWh battery (25 miles of EPA all-electric range)
  • 95 lithium-ion cells (3.7 V and 25 Ah) in a series (5 stacks with 19 cells each)
  • air-cooled pack
  • nominal voltage 351.5 V

There will be follow up videos onthe Prius Prime:

“This is the first is a series of videos on the Toyota Prius Prime. This episode covers the removal of the 8.79kWh 351.5 Volt 25 Ah air-cooled battery from a 2017 Toyota Prius Prime PHEV. The components shown and operation will be similar to many other plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.”

2017 Toyota Prius Prime – HV Battery Removal (Source: WeberAuto)

Categories: Battery Tech, Toyota, Videos

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62 Comments on "UPDATE – Toyota Prius Prime – High Voltage Battery Removal Video"

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Bill Howland
This guy always does informative videos – and it was kinda cool seeing the battery parts of a prius prime. It would help in general if in these videos they just took a second to mention specifics: I believe this has the ‘so -called 3.3 kw’ charger, but it would be helpful to know what the maximum current draw allowable is (Japanese cars, due to the ubiquitous 200 volts in Japan), usually don’t slow down at public chargers as my Caddy ELR does. My friend’s old 2012 leaf would keep drawing full power, up to 18 amperes if necessary, if the incoming voltage was low, whereas my Caddy, (and Gen 1 Volt) were limited to 15 amperes. He also didn’t mention the charge rate for the 12 volt side – and at first blush it seems an additional complication to have a SECOND 12 volt dc/dc converter – as all GM products just satisfy the 12 volt requirement using the car’s one and only converter, (I say a SECOND ‘dc/dc’ converter since in this case, the incoming dc comes from an interim link near the ac side), whether driving, charging, etc. There might be just the SLIGHTEST efficiency gain by… Read more »
Bill Howland
For a car that only goes 18-20 miles (although a big improvement over the original PIP) 5 hours seems an INCREDIBLY long period of time for a high voltage Level Two charge. This is only 4 miles/hour, which some people get with their level ONE chargers (110-120 volt garage receptacle). My Caddy, a much larger car can go 50 miles during mild weather, and at only a 3.1 kw charging rate from a public charger only takes about 4 1/2 hours to recharge. 110 volt plugs take either 18 or 12 hours on average, (GM cars, unlike most others have 8 or 12 ampere current adjustment), but as I say there’s no contest between the Prime and the ELR. But something still doesn’t add up here: 1). I can go 50 miles in a quite large cadillac, and it will require 4 1/2 hours at 3.1 kw charging at a public charger, or 14 kwh. 2). Supposedly, the Prius Prime will take 3300 watts at 5 hours, or over 15 kwh to go 20 miles maybe. And a smaller car besides. (I know it doesn’t seem possible, but the 5 hour recharge time REALLY seems more like he was charging… Read more »
Bill Howland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2lIBc59_5w

This video has the guy charging at home, and then at a public docking station. At over 18 cents/kwh where he is – charging with electricity was only trivially cheaper than gas – and the public station was a lot more money. How far he got on a full battery was rather dicey since he got 40 miles range driving down hill, but less than 17 coming back.

5:05 for 120 volt charging.
2:00 for public charging.

So obviously the WEBER AUTO vid was 5 hours for 120 volt charging, irrespective of what he said about only having 208 volts at the university shop.

john1701a

The majority of owners report EV distance well in excess of the rated 25 miles.

Stop spreading information clearly not representative of real-world results.

Prsnep

Some people are not interested in facts. Online forums are an excellent mediums to spread an ideology or advance an agenda.

Bill Howland

They are also excellent mediums for people to piss and moan without bringing ANY factual information to the discussion at all.

john1701a

21.0 miles with the electric heater running… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-VFEfDDkSU

26.7 miles with the electric A/C running… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKsIkxmZ4U

31.2 miles full commute in spring… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPVkkM5FvCI

Bill Howland

I said 18-20. you get 21-31 so you say. That was an incidental figure to my main point that the video has charging times that are THREE HOURS TOO LONG. Talk about nit-picking. I also called it a big improvement over the original Plug-In-Prius. I also accurately listed the other video’s driver got 16 miles and 39 miles, also accurate, but again a somewhat trivial point to the MAIN POINT I was making.

Why are you TOYOTA guys ( a brand I respect more than 95% of other commenters here) so Onion-Thin-Skinned? If you want to say the EPA is 24-25 – just say it. Don’t get on your soap box about how idiots hate TOYOTA.

Bill Howland

I think the reason I was 5 miles shy on the EPA was the HORRID figure of the first Plug-In-Prius was still on my mind, what was it? 0-8 miles or something like that? Plus that whoppingly oversized high speed 2.4 kw level 2 charger.

Bill Howland

I remember the main commercial for the PIP was a guy visiting a friend’s house, and the garage duplex outlet was taken up by the Pet fish tank, and the garage freezer. The kid said don’t bother the fish and don’t plug the car in.

The big point of the commercial was that you didn’t have to plug in.

That was pure advertising GENIUS. If you are trying to advertise the fact that you can buy a TOYOTA that doesn’t need to be plugged in, you might as well just advertise the plain old PRIUS which can’t possibly EVER be plugged in and save a few thousand besides, since the Fed Tax credit on this vehicle was so small (due to its 3.7 kwh battery, if that) that it didn’t make up for the high initial cost.

xm

This perfectly illustrates the substandard placement of the battery.
Buyer beware, there’s nearly no trunk space. Duffle bags are your friend.
Look at leasing the BMW i3 for a few years until Toyota gets serious.

Seriously, you’ll get a better lease with the BMW i3 vs. the Prime Advanced.
And you’ll be in a better car in all categories, enjoying the Real Advantages of an EV.
The torque, smoothness and quietness in the i3 you just won’t get in a Prime.
( Prime is Segundo. )

john1701a

Prime is a hatchback, allowing you to fold down the back seats so large cargo can be carried… far more than any trunk could accommodate. Also, BMW i3 has double the sticker-price (base 52k vs 27k), so comparisons make no sense.

xm

The leases are very competitive, I think the leases actually cheaper.
Like I said, give yourself 3 years in a lease and then possibly pull the trigger when Toyota designs a real Plugin Hybrid or EV.

Kdawg

How to remove the PP battery. Step 1: Find magnifying glass.

Seriously though, come on Toyota. Put a 40-50 mile range battery in there. You’ve almost reached Gen1 Volt status, 10 years later. And where’s the BEV?

Bill Howland

Gen 1 Volts were AT LEAST EPA rated 10-11 miles better than Toyota’s best. That is far, far away from the current (although admittedly a HUGE improvement over the original PIP) Prius.

But expect Star Trek John to say that the Volt is uneconomic since it goes so much further than absolutely necessary, and gets crappy gas mileage, and that no company would seriously make such a car unappealing to most families.

Except Honda threw a monkey-wrench into his argument when they came out with the 47 mile Clarity, with a fast level 2 charger, in a MID-SIZE which puts competitive pressure on BOTH TOYOTA (Large vehicle, decent range, and fast charging), and CHEVY (Large vehicle, fast charging).

Interesting that no VOLT owners criticized HONDA for ‘Coming out with an Impractical Mid-sized vehicle, a size no one wants!’.

Kdawg

Yes, Honda did it right, although late, but right. I don’t know why Toyota is so against EVs. I think it’s the innovator’s dilemma regarding old hybrid tech, and they are still distracted by hydrogen. Maybe it’s time for some new leadership there.

Bill Howland
Good question about TOYOTA…. Perhaps since 2011 (the fukushima travesty), electricity has been very DEAR in the Japanese home islands, – perhaps Hydrogen has been deemed much more economical a fuel there, at least eventually. They sure are going FULL FORCE into Hydrogen vehicle development, but then so are Honda and others; Honda being Japanese through and through also. Honda is apparently providing a very good dose of healthy competition. Japanese industrial friendly competition is yielding BIG technology advances – as a for instance, competition between Mitsubishi and TOSHIBA making the world’s fastest elevators (1 km/minute) has yielded smoothness of operation unobtainable by US firms such as the formerly ‘World Class’ OTIS. US companies, the few that remain, like the somewhat clunky DOVER, ( and mostly supplanted by the German Schindler and TK), CANNOT ever match those impressive speeds since they vibrate too violently at speed. SO currently I look to HONDA to innovate, and use competitive pressure to bring other companies along. I happen to have currently 2 GM vehicles, the BOLT ev being the most innovative, but GM would proceed far faster with releasing vehicles if some other firm causes their collars to sweat a bit.
xm

Like everywhere else on earth: Solar & Storage are cheaper than all other fuels. Wind & Storage are cheaper than all other fuels.
You’ll find this to be a fact in Japan too, but, you’ve to to install yourself.

xm

Honda did do it right: The Honda Fit EV.
Now not sold.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Bill Howland said:

“Interesting that no VOLT owners criticized HONDA for ‘Coming out with an Impractical Mid-sized vehicle, a size no one wants!’.”

Well said, Bill! Bravo.

Bill Howland

It was just made as a humorous comment – since some here are always SO SERIOUS.

john1701a

Volt is a terrible example. 10 years later, even with the generous $7,500 tax-credit, sales are far below mainstream levels. The higher range clearly isn’t helpful. Hyundai, Toyota, and Nissan are all pushing affordability, something GM continues to struggle with.

Just a little over 2,000 mile on my current tank. The meter only goes to 199.9 MPG, so I’m not sure of the current efficiency. But I can say the capacity clearly returns great results.

btw, we carried 2 kayaks on top to enjoy Lake of the Isles in Minneapolis last week. Despite that massive added drag & weight along with having the A/C cranked, that 51.8 mile round-trip delivered 72.5 MPG overall.

Kdawg

Cherry-pick stats all you want, and keep moving the goalposts as well. Fact is, Toyota is in last place when it comes to plugins, no matter how you try to spin it.

john1701a

Same goal as from the very beginning. Each automaker is expected to reach sustainable & profitable high-volume sales prior to tax-credit expiration.

The approach Toyota took to deliver a robust battery-pack that’s also low-cost makes their offering affordable even without subsidy money.

Kdawg

Why have Toyota plug-in sales been so dismal for the last 8 years? Today, why do more people buy a regular Prius vs a plug-in Prius? With their loyal customer base (look in your mirror), Toyota should have been outselling all others in plugins for the last 10 years, but instead have been dragged along kicking and screaming. You continue to make excuses for them, but it doesn’t change the facts.

john1701a

The Tortoise and the Hare.

Kdawg

Excuse # 3074

Pushmi-Pullyu

Which race in the growing EV market do you see Toyota winning?

Toyota is losing in every category… unless you mean the dead-end fool cell car market, where the more market share they win, the more money they lose!

john1701a

Hoping that misrepresentation of what actually happened will be receptive to the new audience here?

Prius PHV was rolled out 6 years ago, not 8, to only 15 states as a mid-cycle upgrade to gen-3 Prius. It was a test platform to measure the market prior to a large ramp-up & deploy. Toyota determined cost was too high to appeal to mainstream buyers, so they kept inventory limited… then later stopped production all together.

Since Prime was already nearing final design, the approach made a lot of sense. Toyota could continue to collect valuable real-world data without influencing those untouched 35 states and the existing dealers could clear out existing inventory entirely. It would preserve the tax-credits for that next-generation Prius plug-in and allow every location to start fresh.

The results clearly confirm that was a wise approach too. We see how well rollout sales have been and this video shows us how much Toyota learned from that low-volume beginning.

Kdawg

And more excuses…. Do you get paid to defend their lack of progress and disinterest in plugins? Stop pretending. Toyota got caught off guard with EVs and lost the “green cred” throne. Instead of wiping the egg off their face and playing along, they double-downed on old hybrid tech and said cars weren’t ready for lithium batteries (never mind all the other companies that were making & selling them to happy customers). They tried & failed with the horrible PIP and even had Tesla make them an EV. But that went away too. Now their stuck with the unwanted PP. For their huge loyal customer base, they really dropped the ball on EVs. Even today, more Toyota fans buy a plain old hybrid Prius vs. the plugin, and this is Toyota giving it away at a loss. One of these days they may learn, but they need to embrace the technology instead of being dragged along kicking & screaming.

john1701a

Rhetoric related to the progress Toyota has made with plug-in support has been going on for years. They take a bottom-up approach, the complete opposite of GM, so misunderstanding is common from those unfamiliar with that business & economic perspective.

In 2015, when Toyota ended production of Prius PHV, the antagonists immediately started to push a narrative of having given up. The spin was Toyota had called it quits and would focus exclusively on hydrogen fuel-cells. It was utter nonsense, proven blatant greenwash when the next-generation was revealed in 2016. It simply made no sense to proceed with gen-1 rollout knowing that gen-2 would deliver major improvements at a lower cost.

Looking back, it is now easier to see the efforts to undermine. Design of this battery-pack makes it clear that Toyota placed pricing as a very high priority, doing everything they could to deliver robust operation without requiring heavy expense. Effective cooling without the need of a liquid is a complexity Toyota was able to avoid. Forced air is proving a good choice.

Bill Howland

The ford energi products also use this cheap cooling/heating scheme. Its better than the Leaf at least.

But you are forgetting that TOYOTA personnel have been quoted as saying that the H2 Mirai is more important than the Prius, -plugin or not.

Perhaps long term that is true, and/or maybe Toyota doesn’t view the Prius as important. By their own words they don’t think it is as important as the Mirai.

Perhaps Star Trek John should go to Japan and tell them how important the Prius Prime is.

john1701a

Once upon a time, some unknown person made some vague statement.

Even if there was any substance to that in the past, how would it still be relevant ?

We clearly see the intent now for plug-in options across Toyota’s fleet of hybrids. In fact, both Corolla and C-HR will make their debut with a plug next year. Following that is the expectation for RAV4. That makes thought about Camry joining later quite realistic. It’s a path to electrification their customers (that means both consumers & dealers) can easily take.

In other words, the twist of Prius not being important is in an odd way true if you look forward enough. We need to see the rest of the fleet join in.

This is why GM has done such a horrible job with their supposed “vastly superior” technology. Two-Mode didn’t diversify. Volt didn’t diversify. Bolt is struggling. There is no path forward still, after all these years.

Bill Howland

Man what a depressing person.

People in general here are grinning at the fact that you think TOYOTA is the be all, end all in Electric Transportation. When someone says a competing car goes further, you arrogantly are calling ALL PEOPLE who bought the competitive car STUPID.

john1701a

That narrative of loyalty doesn’t work. I say positive things about Hyundai, BMW, Honda, Nissan and Tesla on a regular basis. All offer more range. Competition isn’t other automakers anyway.

The goal posted over and over and over again is to appeal to showroom shoppers, those loyal customers who couldn’t care less what other automakers offer. They just want an affordable choice.

This is why Corolla, C-HR, Camry, and RAV4 were all brought up in the discussion about Toyota. When there’s a discussion about GM, the post mentions Trax, Equinox, Traverse, and the upcoming new Blazer.

Each automaker must transition to something offering a plug. That means their entire fleet. Competition is from within the showroom floor.

Kdawg

You make backhanded comments about non-Toyota companies only to segue into preaching to everyone how Toyota is the best. Transparent AF.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“The spin was Toyota had called it quits and would focus exclusively on hydrogen fuel-cells. It was utter nonsense…”

Yes, it was and is nonsense…. 100% official Toyota bull pucky, straight from Toyota’s PR, repeated many times!

Here is a relevant quote:

The Wall Street Journal quotes Toyota chairman Uchiyamada as saying “the reason why Toyota doesn’t introduce any major [all-electric automobile] is because we do not believe there is a market to accept it.”

(Anyone who doubts the truth of my remarks here should visit the links posted below.)

I get only two things from your comments here, Trekkie John:

1. Your income is dependent on Toyota, directly or indirectly.

2. You have contempt for anyone you see as clueless or naive enough to actually believe what Toyota keeps saying in public about BEVs, fuel cell cars, and the future of automobiles.

* * * * *

Now, for those links to official Toyota bull pucky about BEVs, fuel cell cars, and the future of automobiles:

From The Verge: “Toyota doesn’t see opportunity for an all-electric car”

https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/1/4790136/toyota-hybrid-hydrogen-future-not-all-electric

From InsideEVs: “Toyota Engineer Explains How EVs Don’t Have A Practical Future As A Long-Range Transport”

https://insideevs.com/toyota-engineer-explains-evs-dont-practical-future-long-range-transport/

Pushmi-Pullyu

And a third more recent link, showing nothing has changed:

From Clean Technica.com: “Toyota Chairman Doesn’t Get It — Still Asleep On Electric Cars”

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/08/toyota-chairman-doesnt-get-still-asleep-electric-cars/

Gasper

Why should they put in bigger battery? They are selling them like hot cakes all over the world. Not the car for you? Just choose something else… I see the problem, there is no good choice in this price segment, well maybe, just maybe it’s technically impossible to make a longer range EV in this price segment.

And why not bash the other car makers that don’t have a future vision in EVs (FCA maybe?), at least Toyota is not making promises they can not deliver. Audi e-tron quattro comes to mind, how many years have we been waiting? I can’t believe it’s finally here, but is it?

john1701a

Promises are interesting. They are usually vague and there’s no accountability. Much is often implied, which in turn becomes promotion material from enthusiasts without anything to actually support the resulting beliefs. The “substance without action” problem is getting bigger too; an automaker will rollout a vehicle but not provide any plan for a next step.

It really does come down to pricing. That’s why there are some enthusiasts in a state of panic now. With tax-credit phaseout looming, sales that are currently challenging will become significantly more difficult. Achieving growth requires far more than just the low-hanging-fruit efforts we are seeing at the moment.

Notice how those who claim “winning” go out of their way to call it the “EV market” rather than address the automotive market as a whole? That avoidance of mainstream consumers tells the real story.

john1701a

That new DEEP DIVE video is quite remarkable.

His level of detail and the time taken to explain how components work is very impressive.

Keep posting about updates. He mentioned more videos are on the way.

DL

This guy and his videos have always perplexed me. They are super informative, even for vehicles that I have no personal interest in and I appreciate that he’s done them. The weird thing is that he obviously has a lot of help taking those cars apart and doing all the labeling, not to mention the post-production editing of the videos themselves, but yet you never see another human being in any of them. Why does he use a remote controlled camera instead of having a cameraman? Also there’s never any credit given at the end either to those who must have helped putting them together. Weird.

Bill Howland

Ahem, well, there is another person in his videos rarely when he needs help moving something. Professors usually work alone to minimize distractions. He’s really not so bad. If you think he’s taking too long speed up the video to 1.5 or 2.0X to get on with it as I do.

There’s worse people to criticize than this guy, and he does seem to ask for constructive criticism to any factual errors in the video.

This was MY WHOLE POINT in earlier comments – stating that his claim that fully recharging the car at 208 volts takes 5 hours is in fact, incorrect, (in fact it is a bit over 2 hours at that voltage) and whether he knew it or not, he was recharging at the same rate as the ‘Occasional Use Cord’ included with purchase of the vehicle at 110-120 volts.

David Murray

Being that I own a Prius Prime… it’s amazing seeing how small the battery pack actually is. I mean, I really thought it would be a lot larger than that considering how much cargo space is lost. It’s surprising how much space there is for cooling and just dead space. I would hope in the future they could package at least one or two more of those 19-cell modules. Maybe that could get the range up to 35 miles, plus maybe a little more acceleration power in EV mode.

Kdawg

Exactly (but don’t let you know who hear that, because it’s “PERFECT… PERFECT just like it is” 🙂

john1701a

It is reasonable to expect a mid-cycle update of some sort. Cost continues to be the primary influence. Toyota quite clearly stated delivering a robust, affordable pack was more important that the physical space it required for the first large-scale offering. We’ve seen Toyota working on a continuous-improvement approach. Upgrades will come when it makes sense.

Keep in mind that Corolla PHV and C-HR EV are debuting next year. That rumored Prius CUV could make an appearance too. So, it’s not like there’s any rest for the engineers.

Kdawg

It’s been reasonable to expect a lot from Toyota over the last 10 years, but they haven’t delivered, and you have continued to make excuses for them. Why not just admit they are behind/disinterested, instead of euphemisms like “will come when it makes sense”? If all car companies used that logic, then we’d have no plug-ins, and every car company would be sitting there, looking left & right saying.. “just wait.. keep on waiting… don’t worry guys.. it’s coming.. someday”. Luckily we have leaders in this area. so much progress was made in the last decade. It’s just sad Toyota missed the boat.

john1701a

Know your audience.

Mainstream consumers are only now taking their first look at the possibility of purchasing something with a plug. Actual purchases from them won’t even begin until enthusiasts have exhausted early-adopter opportunities (tax-credits). So, nothing for them has been missed.

I don’t see GM with plug-ready platforms yet, no hybrids waiting to exploit battery cost & density improvements; however, we do see Hyundai prepping their fleet. We see both Honda, Nissan, and VW heading that direction too.

So, that claim falls flat.

Watch the video. See how well thought out the stacks in the pack are.

Kdawg

“only now”.. Why not 5 years ago? Who was lagging? Who was bad-mouthing EVs? Ah that’s right, Toyota. So now that Toyota is finally making a weak plug-in, you conveniently say ‘Now is the correct time’. The correct time was 10 years ago (or even sooner). Based on your logic, Toyota should wait another 10 years, because THAT will be the best time. Stop making excuses for them.

john1701a

GM was anti-EV to an extreme. Lithium batteries were very expensive. Infrastructure was far from established.

Those are facts, all of which put Toyota right on schedule for reaching mainstream consumers.

Leadership comes from being able to change ordinary people, not winning praise from early- adopters.

Kdawg

Lame attempt to try to spin this about GM. Toyota dropped the ball. Stop making excuses.

john1701a

Toyota’s approach is bottom-up, very effective for mainstream change. Not being top-down, equating to disappointment among enthusiasts, isn’t a concern.

Toyota’s advancement in that regard was to deliver the most efficient means of electrically heating the cabin available, a vapor-injected heat-pump. That means you don’t consume as much electricity for keeping warm, allowing more for EV driving.

Toyota has also delivered a remarkably efficient EV drive rated at 25 kWh/100mi. That means not having to carry as much battery to travel the same distance as less efficient plug-in vehicles. That also means spending less time & money for recharging.

In this discussion topic, we learned how well thought out the battery-pack actually is. Arrangement of the stacks clearly delivers a robust approach with affordability in mind. Absence of the need for liquid cooling offers a clear weight, complexity, and maintenance advantage.

We all see how Toyota is preparing the hybrid fleet to receive those same upgrades. You obviously don’t like that. And with the Volt blog now dead, we have to hear whining about it here. Do you really think this audience cares?

Kdawg

What we all see is Toyota dragging their feet, and you in the spin-zone. They don’t want to make plug ins but they are forced to, due to the market and competition eating their lunch.

I’ve been here since day one, and sorry if the truth hurts. Stop making excuses for ‘too litle too late’ Toyota.

john1701a
Spin of the “too little, too slowly” concern is an obvious attempt to prevent analysis of Toyota’s timing to the tax-credit mistake GM made. ——– 200,000 sales the basis of measure for the first phase of rollout. Each automaker was given that limit for tax-credit availability. Upon reaching it, phaseout will be triggered. 1 quarter (3 months) of sales will continue at the 100% value. The following 2 quarters, it will be reduced to 50% but will not be restricted by a quantity limit. Following that, there will be 2 quarters also without limit but at 25%. Purpose of the tax-credit is to establish enough demand for the vehicle or technology to sustain high-volume profitable sales. ——– GM is expected to trigger phaseout at year-end. Demand is no where near the level it needs to be. Volt sales never drew GM customer interest; instead, they remained almost exclusively conquest purchases from elsewhere. Abrupt switch to Bolt didn’t result in necessary demand either. That generous $7,500 per vehicle would have ended up doing very little to actually change the status quo. ——– Toyota carefully observed the market and quickly recognized benefit of saving tax-credits later, when they had a strong base… Read more »
Kdawg

How sad. Even your lame attempt to spin Toyota’s failure, while lashing out at others, still comes off as needing a tax-credit to even be feasible. Hey, some car companies just can’t cut it when it comes to designing new technology. Toyota better figure it out or they will be left even further in the dust.

john1701a

$34,095 = MSRP base Volt

$27,300 = MSRP base Prius Prime

It is very easy to see how the GM necessitates the $7,500 to be feasible… and that’s before pointing out the base Toyota comes with more safety features standard. But it doesn’t matter. Those vehicles are not competing against each other.

Reality is, Volt must compete with other GM vehicles at the dealer. Traditional offerings are the problem, which is why the lower the MSRP, the better.

Toyota takes this situation seriously, striving to deliver a choice truly competitive with other vehicles sharing the same showroom floor.

Kdawg

Not sure why you randomly keep bringing up other auto companies. Stop making excuses for Toyota. You’re their #1 fanboy. You should be badgering them to join the EV movement instead of apologizing for them.

john1701a

Shifting from NPNS, to not enough range, to EV movement, is moving the goal posts.

john1701a

It’s not random. You know precisely why. For years, I kept asking the same question over and over and over again: “Who is the market for Volt?” That reason is obvious now. GM neglected mainstream consumers, focusing entirely on enthusiasts. Their goal was conquest sales… which the consequences of are quite obvious… no loyalty.

Even the die-hard pushers have not only abandoned Volt, they have abandoned GM entirely. In fact, you did that too, choosing to purchase a Tesla Model 3 rather than Chevy Bolt EV.

Toyota is working hard to appeal to their own customers, to retain the loyalty established from their current owners. That’s why their products never appealed to you and it never mattered.

This is why I post over and over and over again: “Know your audience.”

Kdawg

#1 traded in car was the plain Prius when people went to competitors with plugs. Toyota got caught sleeping, and instead of reacting correctly, they bashed plugins. Finally they tried to scrounge something together, but they all failed miserably. The current PP is their latest attempt, yet remaining customers still prefer a plain Prius vs. a PP. Toyota needs to change. It might be time for new leadership. Apologizing for their actions doesn’t help motivate them.

john1701a

There is no where near enough inventory to draw conclusions with yet.
Within a 500-mile radius of Chicago, only 310 Prime are available. It is a global product with low priority in Midwest of US. The entire first year of production was impaired by the new technology Toyota introduced with Prime.

Carbon-Fiber for the hatch isn’t what you’d expect from an affordable ($27K base) vehicle. Yet, that’s what got delivered. Toyota worked with BMW to expertise on how to produce such a complicated piece of the vehicle with that strong, lightweight material… an obvious effort to improve efficiency.

Dual-Wave glass is something you’ll find any other high-volume intent vehicle. The distortion-free bend funnels air over the vehicle to improve aerodynamic drag. It’s complex chemistry & manufacturing is more technology advancement… an obvious effort to improve efficiency.

Kdawg

Nobody cares about any of that. Might as well talk about how many USB ports it has. They probably should have put 3 seats in the back. They probably should have given it a decent battery. Lots of should-coulda-woulda’s. It’s all a day late and a dollar short. Or as Toyota’s efforts are more commonly referred to; TLTL.