Regulations Might Force VW To Kick Electric Car Plans Up A Notch

Electric Cars

DEC 19 2018 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 123

It seems VW might have to adjust and ramp up its EV plans to meet Euro emissions standards.

According to a recent share from Reuters, Volkswagen’s upcoming EV pursuits may not be enough. European emissions targets are ramping up and they’re calling on automakers like VW to get it in gear.

The European Union just approved regulations for a 37.5 percent reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030. VW is currently only pushing for a 30-precent reduction over that same time frame. While the company says it will offer 40-percent of vehicle sales as pure battery-electric by 2030, this is not enough. Keep in mind, this is especially true if the automaker can’t live up to its goals in a timely manner. Accordingly, as for its track record of press releases versus reality, VW may be in bad shape.

German Economy Minister Peter Altmaier admits that ICE cars still drive much of Germany’s economy. He shared:

This is a tough stretch and is at the higher end of expectations – however, we are convinced that this will help the industry to finally accept that combustion engines and platforms need to be standardized.

While VW has allotted some 30 billion euros ($34 billion) to reduce emissions over the next five years, it may not be enough. CEO Diess says:

Restructuring our product portfolio, possibly further reducing our combustion engine-based offering and a significant adjustment of our plant structures and additional battery cell and battery factories would be necessary.

Additionally, due to ever-changing requirements, Diess said he must review much of automaker’s plans next fall. Hopefully, the brand can actually bring true electric vehicles to market, rather than touting its continued efforts with nothing tangible to show.

We are well aware of how many of our readers feel about VW’s lack of commitment. Nonetheless, please share your dialogue with us in the comment section below.

Source: Reuters

Categories: Volkswagen

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123 Comments on "Regulations Might Force VW To Kick Electric Car Plans Up A Notch"

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We hear much and see little, it is almost like listening to our current president.

The cars are not magically going to be available before 2020, just because people keep complaining about VW not delivering.

No thumbs down from me
Comments like the OP’s are so absurd – do people REALLY think VW hasn’t made a massive pivot towards EV? That it’s all smoke and mirrors and in 2020 they’re going to go, “Gotcha! Hahahahaha – no EV’s from us!” They are a publicly traded company and their books are open – you can look at their R&D spending and allocations, and everyone from salesmen to CEOs are making material statements to the commitment. Just because they aren’t selling EVs RIGHT NOW!!!! WHERE ARE THE EVS RIGHT NOW!!!! like these weirdos demand, bares no relevance to what they are absolutely doing right now regarding EV development. I mean, the world’s governments have basically mandated that VW build EVs as punishment for Dieselgate, going sp far as to force VW to run commercials touting the benefits of EVs over ICE (commercials in which they had to feature competitors EVs lol), so the comments like the OP’s simply ignore demonstrable, empirical reality. PS, VW owns Porsche and Audi, which I’m pretty sure are either selling or about to start selling EVs. Oh, and I guess the two E-golfs I saw in traffic yesterday were figment of my imagination.
VW sells the following EVs: VW e-UP: Came in 2013, had a facelift in 2016 and in 2019 there will come a new model. They are taking pre orders for the 2019 model now. VW e-Golf: Have sold that for a few years. Will probably be replaced by the ID Neo.. VW e-Crafter: They’ve fairly recently started to sell this model. Have only seen a few in real life yet. VW Moia: They don’t sell this model – but they offer it as a ride sharing service on some cities. They should offer this model for sale, just add mode seats, and sell it with 9 seats or less. New EVs like the Audi e-tron is for sale in about a month or two? 2019 will start to be slightly interesting from an EV point of view. I think the PSA group will offer their 3rd? EV model then (after the Partner and the ion). . which will probably be their first EV with a volume potential. . . also when the DS EV.. intersting stuff. New Zöe from Renault will come in 2019 or 2020.. that will also be interesting. Sometime in the first quarter of 2019 we’ll see… Read more »

Agree with you here.
For the most part people buy second hand cars and around 20K Euros. So we need those kind of cars. The new I.D. Neo will be a great car if they can deliver for the said price of 25k-35k. That will be a huge deal for us in Europe. And although I’m not a VW fan that would be a hard one to ignore.
Zoe is a fun car but a bit too small for a family car with baby’s. If the children are 2 years or older it will be okay. The Zoe is just a bit short of range. As a city car it is great but 200-230km in this time of year on highway is a bit too short. Even for us in Europe. But I do enjoy the car. But a stroller and a few bags is not going to fit.

The leaf is more expensive. So in that A/B segment we need more EV’s. Come on Ford, Fiat, Skoda, Peugeot, Renault. you can and should do this.

Or a Zoe wagon! The Škoda Fabia wagon is a great little family car, and it’s about the same size as the Zoe, plus the extended trunk. If Renault offered something like that, I bet a solid third of their customers would take it. I would certainly be interested.

VW is the biggest manufacture of PHEV/EVs in Europe, the Golf one of the best sellers on the market. But yes, so far they have done far to less comparing to their size, but it’s changing.

Trust in VW took years of negative reinforcement, for VW to extinguish.

Looks like they pulled it off 🙂

“…do people REALLY think VW hasn’t made a massive pivot towards EV?”

EV enthusiasts REALLY do have very legitimate, compelling reasons to doubt VW’s stated commitment to that pivot. If you don’t understand why, then you must be new to following the EV industry.

Hint: It hasn’t been all that long since an InsideEVs article pointed out that VW has promised a dozen times or more to put the I.D. Buzz or earlier similar prototypes into production… without ever following through on any of those promises.

I certainly do hope that this time, VW has made a serious commitment. But this little boy has cried “Wolf!” way, way, way more than just the three times in Aesop’s fable.

It’s time — well past time — for far less talk from VW, and far more action on their part.

They unveiled the Buzz in January 2017, with no mention of release date (except after 2020).

https://electrek.co/2017/01/09/vw-all-electric-autonomous-retro-microbus/

“It’s not expected to hit the market until at least 2020 since it’s when VW plans to release its first vehicles on the new electric platform, but nonetheless, it looks like it’s an important part of VW’s ambitious electric vehicle efforts.

Dr. Herbert Diess, Chairman of the Board of Management for the Volkswagen brand, said during the announcement:

“The Volkswagen brand’s big electric offensive begins in the year 2020 with a completely new vehicle architecture. That is when we will be launching an entirely new generation of fully connected, all-electric vehicles to the market. By 2025 we want to be selling one million of these vehicles annually. We are making electric mobility the new trademark of Volkswagen.””

Perhaps since then reports have suggested otherwise but so far they have held true to their word.

They announced the MEB platform in 2016 and said it would be in production by 2019. The Neo is still on track to be in production at the end of 2019.

You’re wrong and keep spreading fud on this issue.

You appear to be confusing me with someone else. I have never, ever posted FÜD on any subject, and never will. (Sometimes mistakes, but never FÜD.)

And some people — including you — need to stop falsely claiming that VW never made any announcements about serious EV production until recently.

For example, an article from 2010 says “Volkswagen Plans to Sell 300,000 Electric Cars a Year by 2018”

https://www.treehugger.com/cars/volkswagen-plans-to-sell-300000-electric-cars-a-year-by-2018.html

And the I.D. Buzz is only the latest in a series of concept vehicles from VW, including the I.D. BUDD-e and the Bulli. The series dates back to 2001, and includes both gasmobile concept cars as well as concept EVs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Microbus/Bulli_concept_vehicles

You see, Andy, some of us actually have been paying attention.

No thumbs down from me

“You appear to be confusing me with someone else. I have never, ever posted FÜD on any subject, and never will. (Sometimes mistakes, but never FÜD.)”

BS, and we’re all getting tired of it. You’re hear all day, every day, posting in every article, and if it’s not Tesla, you FUD it. You either work for Tesla or are simply one of those weird Telsa/Elon cultists.

Not helpful

No thumbs down from me

But 100% true.

Well done

True enough. But that statement was well before dieselgate. How could anyone hold them to that release knowing that a lot of the money meant for their EV R&D was reallocated to pay for the penalties stemming from dieselgate?
Or did you forget that VW paid out multi-billions in fines? I really doubt you forgot about that though.

Do you have the sales figures of VW’s electrified cars (hybrid, PHEV and BEV) out of interest? As for the rest of it, your main argument lies with their “aim”, to have 300,000 electrified car sales by 2018, just as they aimed to be the largest car manufacturer, beating Toyota. Aim being the important word there. The rest of it appears to be based off several concept vehicles that were not promised for production and did not have any production dates associated with them. Presumably you don’t know what a concept car is then? Since 2016, with the release of their new roadmap they have so far been very consistent with timing, just as they appear to have been pretty consistent with the timeline in the 2010 link you posted. They did release a Toureg Hybrid in 2010, they started field testing the e-Golf in 2011, the Jetta Hybrid was introduced to the US in 2012. They were two years late with the Golf hybrid, which became a PHEV and was released in 2014. They promised three electric cars in 2013 – e-Up sales started, but they slipped a bit with the production e-Golf, with sales beginning in feb 2014.… Read more »
No thumbs down from me

Hint: They’re already selling five models right now. Hint: They are bringing on line another three or four in the next year. Hint: Your subjective reality doesn’t jibe with the objective, empirical one the rest of us – including Volkswagen – inhabit.

So in 2020 when they have 20 different EV models spread across three different brands selling 150k units/year, will you admit you were wrong? Hint: Probably not – sententious reality-deniers never do.

150k is tough sell. That would be something along bazillion of GWh. Is LG doing enoug investment to actually support such enormous volume in batteries? That would be what? 3, 4 times the LG of previous year(s)?

I think you have been inhaling to much “clean diesel” exhaust fumes lol CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP

You have any reason to doubt. But designing and building an whole new platform takes some time and costs a lot of money; that is why they mostly do it together for different manufacturers. So I think they do it quite fast. MEB platform is ready and they are really testing that “Golf” I.D. in South Africa and somewhere in Lapland. They are far ahead of other like Mercedes who build conversion Ev’s. Fiat? Ford? They are behind.

The 37.5 percent reduction in CO2 emissions (which is the issue referred to in this article) is required by 2030 — not 2020.

A very noble goal for the EU. VERY unlikely to be met especially with the scaling back of nuclear electricity by Germany and apparently even France. Compared to the USA/Canada and even more so to China, the EU is a relatively small emitter of CO2. CO2 is a global problem with NO local solutions. Hopefully Europe will a be a beacon for others (especially the USA and China) to follow but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

The goal is for the transport sector not for electricity production. The electricity sector has been decarbonizing for years, but with a lot of potential when phasing our coal in many EU countries.
I see China more as a beacon for hope, no other country invests more in EVs and clean energy. The US is the biggest issue, but this can change rapidly in the next election cycle when a democratic president might finally be forced to make a real stand (also Obama was only a half hearted climate supporter). The only reasons something is happening is economics. Cheap gas replaces coal in the US as we speak, and solar is cost competitive due to the great solar resources in the US compared to most of Europe

Climate warming is a global problem, CO2 emissions as well. But NOx is a very local problem, particulate matter as well.
Going for 37% cut, we will get up to 37% cut in those emissions of local importance. Up to, becuse some technologies trade CO2 for other emissions (looking at you diesel, and direct injection gas). But that’s also way too much for those technologies, so **zero** emissions cars will be a thing, and they will get those emissions down (where it matters -> in cities)

What’s a starting date? Before or after WTLP?

and that has what to do with his comment?
All of the legacy car makers have promised cars for 8+ years, and have delivered either junk or nothing.
Personally, I think that in the next 2 years, we are going to see a LOT of interesting cars. Basically, they will have to equal or exceed Tesla, or quit making vehicles. And I suspect that stock holders do NOT want that.

Arguably they have been dabbling for a decade as you say, but part of the problem has been the sheer cost and impracticality of the technology until relatively recently. Could some of the higher end manufacturers have perhaps released something sooner? Sure, but companies like VW, Ford, Toyota not so much, without subsidising their vehicles significantly. if they’re doing that then they don’t want to be making many if they wanted to stay in business. Ev’s needed a Halo car, and Tesla provided one. They’re not affordable to most buyers, but showed that they are possible and desirable. With the enhancement of technology and reduction in price BEV’s are starting to make sense for the mainstream buyer, people not willing to spend extra or have major negative lifestyle changes. Most manufacturers don’t need to really consider Tesla, and only need to equal them in that they need to produce compelling cars for the segments they are interested in. That doesn’t mean OTA updates, sales channels, acceleration or super duper technology (or gull doors for that matter), but just nice vehicles that compare well against direct ICE competitors. Most people are not interested in a premium priced high speed sedan, they… Read more »

Yes I’m still waiting for Mexico to pay for the wall lol

VW is ahead of everyone besides Tesla. They haven’t promised and not delivered on what they promised. Herbert Diess is very pro-electric. Audi and Mercedes are about to introduce what are essentially conversion cars, built on fossil platforms (VW has produced the e-Gulf and e-Up for years). Nissan only still has the Leaf. Renault still has only the Zoe. BMW still has only the i3. GM has only the Bolt, produced in small numbers. Hyundai looks promising, but delivering in small numbers.

VW set a new course record at Pike’s Peak last June, with an electric, and now aiming for a new record at Nürburgring.

No thumbs down from me

It’s just ridiculous to criticize VW – they are currently selling two EVs that I can think of (E-tron and E-golf), and will be adding a third next year (Taycan). These anti-VW comments have nothing to do with reality and everything to do with this weird, cult-like devotion to Tesla.

I guess “anti-VW comments” have to do with cheating with emissions, #dieselgate and VW drivers being to some extent A-hole.
That and many announcements but few EV models on the dealers.

I’m sure that some are hoping to find an ICE in the new VW/Audi/Porsche /s /s /s

The biggest a-holes on the road are BMW drivers and they have been flocking to Tesla.

“cheating with emissions”. Sucking on the same lollipop for years must taste awful. That mistake has cost VW about 20 billion, much more than they benefited from it. They have atoned big time. Time to move on.

More like $40B when all said and done and these were mostly high mileage cars doing far less harm than the giant hog trolleys all too many of us Gringos drive.

They are still selling millions of diesels all over the world. They will have started to atone when they stop.

The only thing that is tasting awful is VW tailpipes.
There is plenty of VW cars outside US, and people are still breathing their fragrance.
VW have been condemned in the US but urged to continue cheating in Europe (EC allowed cars to emit more that what is normally legal as a consequence of the #dieselgate).
20 G$ is little money for a group like VW, supported by the Qatar, and we must take into account the fact that VW is building a chargers network with a fraction of that 20 G$. Their cars will be able to use this network in the future (or not, depending on VW real will to go EV).

No thumbs down from me

“and VW drivers being to some extent A-hole.”

Huh? So now VW has become the car of choice for assholes? Did they get tired of their BWMs?

And what does diesel gate have to do with VW’s pivot to EV, other than motivating it?

You are presenting signs of clean diesel neuropathy syndrome lol CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP

Really? Where in the US can someone drive an eTron off the lot? Even the Panamera Hybrid had months of delay, after the first expected US delivery date. Is it so ridiculous, to end up critical?

RE: Article. Going from 95gr/km to <60, according to what was decided in Brussels, is like a real-world 151mpg [(20lb/gal*453gram/lb)/60]. As VW are saying, much more than 30% all-EV could be needed to hit a number like this.

It is true that VW is a bit late, but a lot faster then many other big company’s like Fiat group. VW made a whole new platform for EV’s while Audi and Mercedes just have “conversion” cars. ICE made platforms now with a electric drivetrain. And making a platform is time and money consuming, Ford is nowhere near to make an ev as we have heard nothing.

Renault could do indeed better and make some new models. Even een conversion car like a Scenic could sell well. If they would make an 64-90kWh Espace with a range off around 450 kilometer that would be very good. And I would seriously look to buy such a car. Have driven the ICE version and it is just a great car. Set to comfort.

Where in the US can anyone drive a Model 3 off the lot?

If you walk into a Tesla store in California and want a dual motor performance Model 3, you will get it within a day. They are ready for pickup. You can still order any Tesla and get it by the end of the year according to their website.

No thumbs down from me

“End of the year” is not “drive it off the lot.”

And where are those $35k 3’s we were promised?

Please go see a doctor your clean diesel neuropathy syndrome is getting worse lol

Any Tesla store, showroom, or service center which is selling one of its demo/ service loaner cars… that’s where. Not the traditional dealership lot with hundreds of cars sitting around, but a parking lot nonetheless.

So no new ones then? I’m sure after a year of two of e-Tron production you’ll be able to pick up ex demo ones like that too.

Lol tesla doesn’t have dealerships silly boy

I know. But point still stands. If you’re going to complain about having to order and wait for a vehicle then be consistant. Most EVs are in the same boat, whether they be Tesla, Hyundai or Audi.

Heck, it’s not uncommon to have to pre order/special order high demand ICE vehicles in North America. In Europe it’s common to have to wait a month or two for a new car after picking it.

Audi/VW can’t win. Have to wait for a car to be built for you and they’re trying not to sell them. Have spare ones on the lot and the claim will immediately be that no one is buying them…

Given the large amount of coal still used to make electricity in the EU (especially Germany and the East) it’s not clear that these EVs will make all that much difference especially if they are large and/or high performance ones.

What you’re calling “this weird, cult-like devotion to Tesla” is a reaction to what Tesla has accomplished and is accomplishing.

VW? Not so much. Very little more than a string of broken promises and EV vaporware over the past several years.

No thumbs down from me

Right, we get it – you’re a cultist. At least you’re willing to admit to it.

BINGO

My anti-VW comments have to do with VW engaging in a massive criminal conspiracy, which entailed years of many blatant lies. I tend not to trust criminals who lie. Call me crazy.

You do realize that these people are gone?

Hardly. Companies have cultures, and they don’t turn on a dime.

No thumbs down from me

Link to your supposition? You certainly can name some names since you know for sure they’re still in VW’s employ.

No, but I realize that you’re fooling yourself into believing they are.

No thumbs down from me

So you have proof they still are? Provide the names please. I’ll wait while you support your totally baseless supposition. Just five names of people who were responsible in some way for dieselgate who are still with the company. You can do that, right? Since you know they are, you must know their names.

Call the ambulance your clean diesel neuropathy syndrome is becoming acute call 911

It’s the culture silly

People willing to make money even if it is destroying the environment are gone ? Really ? Are we living on the same planet ?

Crazy.

No, it has to do with dieselgate, and VW promoting diesel for decades, resulting in worsening air quality in Europe. I have experienced this personally since I travel there often. VW has an outsize influence in Europe because it is the biggest manufacturer of the biggest car manufacturing country there. This influence has been bad for people’s health. That’s not enough to mistrust the company? Of course it is. Tesla has nothing to do with it.

The dieselgate is just about the best thing that could have happened to make the consumers realise that they drive carcinoboxes that were sold them “green”.

As a side effect it is also now forcing VW to really become green, i.e. to actually start to produce proper volume of BEVs.

How is admiration for Tesla weird? Because people realize how obviously far ahead they are? Considering the context of the article, how can you deny that statement? All of their cars are emissions free, so please now conjure up a way of telling me they are behind VW.

There’s a difference between admiring a company and being a fanboy/cultist. Spreading constant fud about other companies, while never being negative about one company is a prime example of the latter.

The clean diesel exhaust fumes have damaged your neurons lol CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP

“VW… haven’t promised and not delivered on what they promised.”

Well of course they have, dozens and dozens of times over the past several years; promising to put one or another EV prototype into production, and never following through. Some people posting VW apologist comments here apparently are newcomers to watching the EV industry, or else they have very short memories.

When it comes to EVs, VW is the King of Vaporware. Perhaps that’s finally changing, but they have built up a rather huge negative reputation that they’re going to have to live down.

King of vaoprware because at the beginning of 2016 they said they would produce a vehicle off the MEB platform in 2019, and they are currently readying that production for the end of 2019?

Prime example of the unrealistic expectations. Tesla anounce their cars two years in advance of production, with around 3 years before full scale production is anywhere near, yet that’s not vaporware is it? $35k Model 3 anyone? All car companies do it, yet there’s preferential treatment for some and fud spread about others depending on which side of the table you sit.

Nobody cares about some readyings, because VW announced such readyings for more than decade – and never delivered.

Regurgitating the same B.S. doesn’t make it smell any better the second time around, Andy.

I already posted a link refuting your claim that VW’s EV vaporware claims only date to 2016. Here it is again; an article from 2010:

https://www.treehugger.com/cars/volkswagen-plans-to-sell-300000-electric-cars-a-year-by-2018.html

The difference this this time is that instead of typical “in five years time we’ll do X” they actually are doing testing on close to production ready prototypes, have sourced enough battery contracts for several millions of MEB platform based BEVs for 2020-25, and in a couple of weeks time it will be 2019, the year the 2020 “Neo” will be llaunched as promised back in 2017. The EU is also forcing their hand to actually deliver this and maybe even more. This combined with the bad publicity from #dieselgate.

TBH if 5 of their 7 aims since 2016 come to fruition then I’m sure many people on here will be extremely happy.

Obviously some will still be complaining that their unicorns haven’t come yet, but some people just don’t want to be pleased.

And out of the 7 EV aims/promises made in 2010 for 2011-2014 (shown in that article) they followed through on five of them. Thanks for providing the refutation of your own point there.

As said in a comment above, read what they are saying, not what you want them to be saying; understand the difference between promise and aim; and realise that concept cars are not production models.

Sure, VW haven’t fulfilled every promise – no company will ever do so – but there’s no evidence of the wholesale lying you are claiming.

No thumbs down from me

There’s no point debating that guy – he’s a shut-in who posts here all day, every day. Literally. Click on any random post on this site and he’s there. I hope he’s a lazy Tesla employ who slacks and spends his time online instead of working, but it’s more likely he’s just another deranged Tesla cultist/stock holder.

No thumbs down from me

Regurgitating the same B.S. doesn’t make it smell any better. VW is selling EVs right now. VW will be introducing at least three new models within the next 18 months (or do you think the Taycan and E-tron are “vaporware” that will never get made?). Denying those statements is to deny reality – are you pathologically delusional, or just pathalogically sententious?

Look dude, you’ve lost this argument. Badly. Move on – I’m sure there’s some other article you can Tesla nuthug in.

So, what is the consequence of missing the emissions goal? Does VW get a waiver? Are they not allowed to sell their cars in EU?

The calculation for the 2021 fines are €95 per gram over the fleet limit (95 g/km) multiplied by the number of cars sold. At current trend the estimate for VW’s fine is €1.7 billion before they hit the target. The 2030 target should have a similar charge.

When did VW ever care about standards or meeting them. Cheating on them is quite a bit easier, isn’t it. Except when you get caught.

VW legacy, just in the U.S. Cars rotting on lots. Don’t be a fool and buy a “fixed” one.
https://www.fox21news.com/news/curious-colorado/curious-colorado-why-are-all-those-cars-parked-near-ppir/837464082

And when you get caught you know the German government will look the other way.

Also, there is one guy here with about six handles posting, and upvoting, his own pro-VW nonsense.

Good catch Scott – someone at insideevs should look into that. Seemed like there was way too much, not yet deserved, positive VW sentiment in this thread…

He really can’t help it he needs medical care for clean diesel neuropathy syndrome…neuron damage from inhaling clean diesel exhaust fumes lol

I believe in a consumer driven market over a government mandated one. Many Model 3s are sold to happy car buyers because they are delighted by several aspects if the car compared to the established brands’ wares. Volkswagen is taking this direction not because government forced them to. They took it because they need a giant public relations shot in the arm. Diesels were exposed. Europeans are down on diesels and purchasing far less of them. In a kind of manifest destiny, the world’s largest car company was exposed as putting dollars and profits ahead of consumer’s health and wellbeing. Volkswagen was fined billions of dollars and punished around the world. Forced to buy back many thousands of TDIs. Yet they are not dead, in fact, their new SUVs are selling quite well and VW is still in tbe black. Its hard to win back customers scorned though. For perhaps a generation their image is deeply tarnished. They sold us on TDIs for many years. They lied and lied and lied some more. Although the “clean diesel” lie won’t be forgotten, its amazing how well the market responds to new shiny things. EVs are just better. People will venture into… Read more »

“Volkswagen is taking this direction not because government forced them to. They took it because they need a giant public relations shot in the arm. Diesels were exposed.”

Well of course VW is taking this direction because the government forced them to. You need to follow the chain of cause-and-effect back a bit farther. Why did VW resort to the Dieselgate cheat in the first place? Because of a government mandate to reduce emissions; one that they couldn’t figure out how to meet honestly.

And the reason that VW is now talking about a massive turn towards making plug-in EVs is because of rapidly tightening emission standards in Europe. If it wasn’t for that, VW would just go right on happily making and selling gasmobiles.

No thumbs down from me

How many times are you going to make the same comment on one article? LOL

They produced EVs before this too. As for the so called diesel scandal, that is blown highly out of proportions, especially in the US. The diesel engine series in question offer good milage, and emit a LOT less CO2 then the average US sold gasoline engine. . but they, somebody likes a warmer climate 🙂 They emit nitrogen oxides locally, and in a large city environment that is not so good for sure- especially if everybody was driving with this engine series (which they were not, of course). It was of course an extremely stupid desicion to change the test software (though many/most other car manufacturers have done some similar things), since they should have spent money on an add blue system in sted, that we know work well. Even gasoline engines from many manufacturers will emit more nitrogen oxides, and particles then they should – and you will see several manufacturers that produce a gasoline direct injection engine will have to install a particle filter system, and may also fit an add blu system of some sort. Either in their 2019 or later models to meet regulations. At first a particle filter will do the job (a gasoline engine,… Read more »
TDIs do use urea additives, otherwise known as AddBlue and various other brand names. TDIs ARE dirtier than modern gasoline engines. The nanoparticulates diesels produce are difficult to detect and create havoc in human bodies. Cancers, lung disease and brain damage in children. This is not only on Volkswagen’s list of sins against mankind, but all carmakers ( Mercedes, BMW…) that perpetrated a lie that modern electronic timing methods and urea injectors produced a diesel vehicle with clean emissions. Billions spent in advertising campaigns telling us to go diesel. Today, the German government promotes green energy and chastises the United States for not joining in the Paris Accord. But shame on Germany for protecting their auto industry and preventing more testing of more German car manufacturer’s “clean diesel” products. And shame on you for trying to minimize the magnitude if these automaker’s sins. VW could make the world’s finest and most affordable EV, and I would not spend one nickel on one. Thats just me. If they truly build 100,000s of them, I hope many consumers do purchase one. The big picture is weaning the world off of oil. I believe all German car companies should get on the EV… Read more »

Chinese manufacturers will help if the European manufacturers are unable to meet the targets 🙂

Correction: Are helping. Looks like most European car makers have made joint-venture with Chinese car companies … Some of them have been partly bought by Chinese companies (PSA, Daimler, etc.).

How is the Porsche Taycan and the Audi e-Tron and the camo covered ID hatchback and the start of converting existing factories to produce EVs not tangible?

Do we know that VW is actually converting factories? Or are they just giving lip service to it, as they have with all the EV vaporware they’ve produced over the past few years?

It’s amazing how short some people’s memories seem to be regarding VW’s almost endless stream of broken promises about EVs.

So your hypothesis is they’re lying to their board and shareholders? Interesting…

It’s been agreed at board level, it’s been announced to shareholders. It’s going to happen, if not they will have a lot of legal problems in future.

They don’t care about a few thousand people reading an EV blog.

Yes indeed, VW could not lie about their cheating device to board and shareholders… Oh wait…

“So your hypothesis is they’re lying to their board and shareholders?”

I didn’t assert anything remotely like that. Nice bait-and-switch tactic, there. Too bad you don’t have a real argument.

But given VW’s actions relating to Dieselgate, what you suggest is certainly possible… despite your sarcasm, dude.

Nope, it’s exactly what you are asserting, just like you asserted that people responsible for diesel gate are still employed at VW. I asked you for five names of such people, which you must have since you know they are still working at VW. So where are those names?

“Do we know that VW is actually converting factories?”

Yes.

“It’s amazing how short some people’s memories seem to be regarding VW’s almost endless stream of broken promises about EVs.”

It’s amazing the power of some people’s cognitive dissonance, a phenomena that can literally make a person deny empirical, demonstrable, verifiable reality.

I confess to some cognitive dissonance here.

On the one hand, VW has earned a strong reputation over the past several years for broken promises and vaporware for putting EVs into production. Such a strong reputation that I’ve seen someone else ask if “VW” stands for Volkswagen… or for VaporWare.

On the other hand, VW is sending out strong signals that this time, they really are committed to switching a significant amount of their production over to PEVs (Plug-in EVs); a much stronger commitment than any other legacy auto maker. If VW’s stated commitment is still inadequate to meet European emissions standards, then what about all the other European auto makers?

What this indicates to me is that EU auto makers are doing exactly what American auto makers did in response to the 1999-2000 CARB mandate for zero-emissions cars: They’re digging in their heels and trying to force regulators to roll back the emission standards, claiming that what regulators demand is commercially impossible.

Most of the other automakers appear to be in a better position. I think the German automakers we’re initially planning to use their power and influence to soften the regulations. But now it’s panic time.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/12/12/vw-psa-face-huge-eu-fines-from-fuel-economy-failure

Who are in a better position? Fiat Group? They only have a Fiat 500e in the USA, not sold in the rest of the world only by import.

As much as I dislike VW they made the whole MEB platform quite fast and that normally is a time and funds consuming thing. So they dit a great thing there. Now the first ev on that platform I.D. Neo will be launched next year.
And it might just be what the European market needs. A smaller car for our older and smaller city centres.

No thumbs down from me

“Some?” LOL

Try, “pathological.” It only took you getting hammered on the ten posts you made to get you to finally capitulate (sort of ) to reality.

Just thinking of previous EU mandates, such as to do with power consumption of flat screen TVs for example, they’ve been met with howls of protest initially and cries from all round of “it’ll never work “, but strangely they always do.

I’ve come to the conclusion that they don’t just pull numbers out of thin air, but are pretty sure manufacturers can achieve them- in spite of what the latter may say!

What they do is bring timescales forward and act as a reward to companies that are on the right lines anyway, and a spur to lazier ones who are less innovative. I suspect their appearance now is a good indication that they are confident that manufacturers won’t have much trouble in meeting the targets – but do need encouragement.

E.g. Prius is 78-82 g/km on new tests. 2021 target is 95 g/km, 2030 – 59 g/km. Around half of Toyota sales in EU are hybrids now, i.e. they are already easily meeting 2021 target even without significant plugin sales. 12 years is plenty of time to reduce it from 80 g/km to 59 g/km. It may raise a car cost by a thousand or two (hybrid vs non-hybrid premium), but I don’t think it can be more than that.

Plugins provide easy workaround for these targets, as electricity CO2 emissions count as zero. It’s not sure how long this loophole will last though, as it is obvious that electricity emissions are no way a zero in real life.

From 2025, carmakers will have to report the lifecycle of CO2 emissions of new cars in EU, using a common methodology. Likely to see more drama on the road when this will be implemented.

‘The European Union just approved regulations for a 37.5 percent reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030.’
Reduction from what level? The law already in place is:
95 g CO2/km (=4l/100 km = 59 mpg US) by the end of 2020!
This is the threshhold for all car manufacturers that sell in Europe, not just VW, and includes SUVs and Pickups.
These values are very hard to reach with ICE cars.
Google tells me that the current average in the US ist approx. 25 mpg.

Minus the 37.5 % would then roughly be:
59 g CO2/km (=2.5 l/100 km =94 mpg US) by 2030!
These values can only be attained with PHEVs or EVs.

So basically Europe is saying:
FEW NEW ICE BY 2020, NO MORE ICE BY 2030.
This is good news for Tesla, probably the reason why VW wants to ramp up in 2020, and likely the reason why VW is going for the cheap and small ID-Version. They need the numbers.

Regards from CH

I think this reduction figure applies across a manufacturers range – so if when it comes into effect they sell one ICE car with double the set emissions, they have to sell (say) one ZEV to bring the average down.

So not true to say no more ICE by 2030, just that for every one over target, they have to bring the average down with low emissions sales.

Average fuel consumption last year for new cars in the EU was:

118g CO2/km , 5l/100km, 47 mpg US so with a few EV’s (BEV and PHEV) they are likely to reach their target.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/news/no-fuel-efficiency-improvements-new-cars-sold-europe-2017_en

If around half of cars sold in 2030 are BEV or PHEV then it’s likely the other half could easily be full ICE and they would still be able to reach the 59g CO2 target.

I bought a bottle of champagne to be enjoyed on a day Tesla wheels fall off. The scam has gone too far already. My wine cooler is ready every day till it happens.

LMAO at this troll!

Heh, model 3 production rate at the moment is just over 2000 per week, European homologation not done yet, S and X model sales lagging a lot compared to last year…. Lots of red flags everywhere. It will happen and I am enjoying it every minute!

Meanwhile in the real world…

Should have said PAID troll.

You do know if you do not store it properly it will go bad? I expect your bottle to be undrinkable before Tesla fails. Sucks to be a short.

Ban new ice sales. There are billions of used ice available in the world.

Then what about people that are just getting by? They can never afford even a basic second handed Zoe. They are the ones who by 2k-5k cars.

Good dailymail headline there: “EU kills the Diesel engine” and “European emission limits is so expensive it will stop making the fuel-efficient vehicles”. LOL.

I would have titled the article: “Thanks to upcoming EU legislation car makers forced to move from cancerous Diesels to benefic the consumers and the air quality”. But that’s probably because I’m not much of an eurosceptic.

UE regulators are boosting the electric transition. I’m european, but I don’t know if USA, Japan and other economic areas, are doing the same or is Europe a lonely rider.

And how’s that working out in France?

I’m spanish, but I know something about France. French Govern give subventions to EV buyers, and is pushing the change. In fact, the need of money for that is in part, behind the taxes rise that provocated the yellow vests protests and riots. Maybe some frenchs, prefer keep giving their money to petrol industry. They have the “bonus ecologique” with 6000 € for to buy a BEV, and the “superbonus” with up to 10.000 € if you change your old diesel car for a BEV.
The EVs sales in France in november, rise 119%, tha highest grouth in two years.

It will be intresting what happens next year. Norway just voted to allow norwegian cars to count in Eu stats.