Tesla Semi Makes Its First Delivery Run

Tesla Semi


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Battery-powered truck is carrying batteries as freight

The Tesla Semi program appears to be in high gear. Today, CEO Elon Musk released a photo (above) on Instagram heralding the rig’s first real task: take a load of freshly produced battery packs from the Gigafactory on the outskirts of Sparks, Nevada, and deliver them to the Tesla Fremont factory (A.K.A. the Mothership) in California. Just as Tesla had said it intended to do.

Read Also: Musk Optimistic Tesla Can Stay On Price & Beat Semi Specs

Tesla Semi

Inside the Tesla Semi

The route, according to Google Maps, is 258.7 miles in length, taking approximately four hours and five minutes to complete at typical speeds. If the truck can indeed live up to its range claims of 500 miles — contrary to the beliefs of some of the competition — the trip shouldn’t be too tough, and the tractors can almost certainly sip from the Superchargers at the California plant.

Judging by Musk’s shared photo, the trip might actually be taken by two trucks, making this also the first official Tesla Semi convoy. No word on whether either of the tractors has auto pilot enabled.

Musk stated:

“First production cargo trip of the Tesla Semi heavy duty truck, carrying battery packs from the Gigafactory in the Nevada mountains to the car factory in California.”

Related – Watch Tesla Semi Drive Down The Highway At 70-Plus MPH

Both Tesla Semi trucks from the reveal event

Tesla Semi

Key Tesla Semi specs:

Acceleration 0-60 mph with 80K lbs load – 20 sec
Speed up a 5% Grade – 65 mph
Mile Range – 300 or 500 miles
Powertrain – 4 Independent Motors on Rear Axles
Energy Consumption – Less than 2 kWh / mile
Fuel Savings – $200,000+
Expected Base Price (300 mile range) – $150,000
Expected Base Price (500 mile range) – $180,000
Base Reservation – $20,000
Expected Founders Series Price – $200,000
Founders Series Reservation – $200,000
* Prices displayed in USD. International pricing will vary.

For the most in-depth coverage of the Tesla Semi you’ll ever come across, check out our exclusive 4-part Semi series here.

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122 Comments on "Tesla Semi Makes Its First Delivery Run"

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The First Aerodynamic, and electric Semi to go into production.

“The First Aerodynamic, and electric Semi to go into production.”

Looks like the black truck could benefit from some “aero ears”:)


and perhaps a custom trailer with full aero treatment. Regen in the trailer would be a benefit as well:


It might help to have a trailer that was the correct height.

Gonna have a tough time making spec MPGe with that set up!!

Yes. All good points.
But, starting to drive down their transportation cost while testing is a good start.

Probably doing data collection between the two rigs for comparisons.

The two tractors are different heights; the trailers are the same.

Regen in the trailer would be useless. Let the drive wheels capture the energy. The total energy available for recovery is identical. Why waste the weight on the trailer?

To prevent skidding and jackknifing. The work needs to be spread out across a number of wheels, and the trailer pushing into the tractor is a bad idea from a safety standpoint. Each unit should brake it’s own load.

I used to be a commercial truck driver. Now HERE’s the deal about braking. Ordinarily you use engine braking on long or steep down grades to save wear and tear on your air brakes, and to keep them cool, so they will WORK in an emergency. A lot of truckers that drive in mountainous areas equip their trucks with an engine brake , usually referred to as a JAKE BRAKE, which REALLY puts the engine to work as a braking mechanism. If you have ever heard a truck get REALLY loud while SLOWING DOWN for a light, THAT’s the jake brake working that you hear. Very common, most people have heard it. You can slow down JUST FINE using engine or ELECTRIC MOTOR braking, which means tractor brakes ONLY, ninety nine percent of the time, while recovering the energy to recharge the batteries if you are driving an electric tractor. BUT …. IF you have to brake HARD, and you do, one time out of a hundred times, THEN you MUST depend on the trailer brakes as well, not only for stopping power, but also to prevent fishtailing and jackknifing. SO………. there’s no real need to put regenerative braking on… Read more »

“Regen in the trailer would be useless. Let the drive wheels capture the energy. The total energy available for recovery is identical. Why waste the weight on the trailer?”
-Tom S

This arguement is now DOA. Keith and I researched this even more after the last article where this was brot up.

The idea that the tractor should do most of the braking is totally false.

To long to get into here but the bottom line is:

If you are doing the job correctly you are using trailer brakes. Trailer brakes need to lead in a stop. They are also important to stop jack knifing.

QED end of subject.

If you are doing the job properly regen is a worth while feature in the trailer.

@georgeS said: “This arguement is now DOA. Keith and I researched this even more… The idea that the tractor should do most of the braking is totally false. QED end of subject.”

Correct for conventional semi.

Wrong for Tesla Semi.

For Tesla Semi majority of trailer braking is done by tractor regen brake system which includes trailer anti-jackknife.

That’s wonderfull!!

Now Tesla can even change the laws of physics!

Lol… it is wonderful!

It seems to be overlooked by many that the Tesla Model X when towing a trailer has a trailer anti-swag feature that already defies the laws of physics (or more likely applies Newton’s Third Law or Motion).

For Model X when pulling a trailer and “Tow Mode” is activated, the Model X actively monitors the trailers sway and adjusts wheel braking and speed to stabilize the trailer. For Tesla Semi it’s a more advanced version of this … Tesla Semi has a dedicated motor on each tractor wheel that can take full advantage of regen torque vectoring (the opposite of acceleration torque vectoring) which BOTH BRAKES & STABILIZES the trailer.

Does your truck have intelligent activation of the trailer brakes to know that it should use more of it under hard braking and not under light braking?

Yes… The trailer brake controller (located in the Tesla Semi cab) will have an automatic +/- gain adjustment.

/wild guess

Looks like the black truck could benefit from some “aero ears”:)

At the Reveal, the black Tesla Semi Truck was hauling a trailer that was less than standard height. It looked to me like it was designed for hauling a flatbed trailer, but that’s just a guess on my part.

Looks to me like it was pressed into service here because Tesla has only the two prototypes.

Don’t they have a taller piece that sits on the cab roof? to match with the trailer better? I think the basic cabs are the same aero. Except that the black one needs the movable gap flaps. The gap behind the trailer is a big driver on Cd.

“At the Reveal, the black Tesla Semi Truck was hauling a trailer that was less than standard height.”

yeh not sure why they didn’t use that one . The cargo (battery packs M3) is not that volumous just heavy. I bet the added ht in the trailer is really not needed to get to the wt limit with packs (and motors?) as cargo.

See the earlier EVANNEX article from today about food-beverage industry-specific interest in the Semi. Most beverage delivery trailers are “short” trailers that work perfectly with the “short” cab black Semi. Beverages are HEAVY/DENSE (mostly water) and don’t require high van type trailers.

I suspect Tesla is using the short black semi as well as the white one because it is just one of two actual working and Fed. DOT certified prototypes. Hang efficiency. Get some highway miles with a trailer on the back.

It’s not in production and it won’t be the first if it ever does.

What a brilliant way to put test miles on your vehicle. Musk has a lot of help, but he’s driving his vision forward like no one I’ve ever seen. How long before he announces his first Tesla cargo ship?

Makes you wonder what “risks” other CEO’s are taking.
Maybe a new putter on the green.

Good one mx!

Or at least some more CGI concept renderings.

Being seen with the “wrong politician” perhaps?

we need to know if these trucks are anywhere near targeted specs in range. someone needs to follow the trucks to see if they make any charge stops. I’d say ask musk but it seems like something he’d know well enough to volunteer.

and can you guys do something about not deleting and reposting articles thus deleting made comments? pretty uncool and I bring it up now because I expect this is an occasion begging for a repeat.

someone needs to follow the trucks to see if they make any charge stops.

Did you read the article or check on Google maps? The trip down is well short of 300 miles and has an elevation drop of over 4,000 feet. Even a short range Tesla could do that and easily not be up to spec.

And where exactly would it charge?

Skepticism can be healthy but we can do without tin foil hat stuff.

Keith and I modeled this route for our article:

If you run loaded up to gf from fremont the kwh burn is 629 kwh so should be a piece of cake.

Loaded back burns 378 kwh.

So they will want to pick up some charge @ GF. I bet they have Mega chargers set up at both fremont and GF.

You have to also consider that if they are bringing batteries to the Fremont plant they may actually be going back relatively empty. What would you have in Fremont that you would need in Sparks, except maybe aluminum or steel stampings for battery packs?

I have a feeling the trucks are loaded pretty full heading downhill and relatively lightly loaded going back uphill, a dream situation for a regenerative vehicle.

For those of you not in California or Nevada, Reno and Sparks are at about 4500 feet in elevation just past the Sierra Nevada range, while Fremont is at sea level in the SF Bay Area. The highest part of the drive is located about 7200 feet at Donner Summit, where Westbound trucks would be pretty full of juice from the Gigafactory, only about 60 miles east. Things might be more entertaining Eastbound, but in an electric truck, all you really have to do is crest the hill and let gravity do the rest.

if you’re going to quote someone put their words in quotations otherwise it looks like you’re just stating the same thing. and I was supposed to know there’s no supercharger en route between the gigafactory and fremont? as though that might not be an ideal place for one? and I’m supposed to know the grade of the road they’re traveling? regardless of being downhill on the way there and therefor “quite achievable” according to you the opposite would obviously be true for the return trip. should I have said they should be followed on the return trip to have avoided your tin foil hat assertion or would you have simply lived up to your pseudonym regardless?

The First Aerodynamic, and electric Semi to go into production.

Plus, The Solar power going on their roof.
They are really driving cost out of the system at every step.
Who started that trend? H-nry F-rd?

H_nry F_rd is dead. Long live E_on M_sk.

Henry Ford (along with his buddy, Edison), wanted to make an affordable electric car. But, the batteries of the day prevented it. So, he settled for his second choice, ICE and the rest is history.

May be stretching it a bit, but OK on this site.

Look up the Rouge plant sometime. Iron ore went in one side, cars came out the other. All in the name of reducing cost.

Ol’ Henry wasn’t about reducing cost as much as he was about maximizing profit. He not only reduced cost down as much as physically possible (painting Model T’s only in black was a cost cutting measure) but he went and looked at old cars in junkyards to see which parts weren’t wearing out fast enough so he could get repeat business.

The LAST thing he wanted was a car that lasted 20 years.

Congrats! I’m far more interested in the nitty gritty, this may have been answered already, I just haven’t seen them and I did google…

Are operational mega chargers at one or both sites yet?

When will be the first “convoy” attempt?

How hard is Tesla accelerating; are they ever flooring it?

Q: Are operational mega chargers at one or both sites yet?

A: *Both. But this demonstration trip may be a round-trip on a single charge… lead semi going up will rotate to be the follow semi on return… leap-frog convoying.

Q: When will be the first “convoy” attempt?

A: *This trip will do convoy (with an obs-driver in 2nd cab)… but will not be the “first attempt”… already done that.

Q: How hard is Tesla accelerating; are they ever flooring it?

A: *Of course they are… data.

* wild guess

A: *This trip will do convoy (with an obs-driver in 2nd cab)… but will not be the “first attempt”… already done that.
*Wild guess


Yeh not clear at this point. according to Bjorn the AP in MX will not work with a trailer. They may not be there yet.

CDAVIS said: “A: *Both. But this demonstration trip may be a round-trip on a single charge… lead semi going up will rotate to be the follow semi on return… leap-frog convoying.”


*The matte black Tesla Semi is short-range version so that semi will be re-charged at Fremont before return trip and the silver long-range semi will attempt round-trip single charge.

from the article: “— the trip shouldn’t be too tough, and the tractors can almost certainly sip from the Superchargers at the California plant.”

One might think so, but likely not at the “retail” SC station in-front. If the Semi’s are wired for 800 VDC, then it would take special 800 VDC SC’s to charge. More likely they have their own dedicated “Megacharger” style stations right at or near the plant’s receiving docks around the back.

“If the Semi’s are wired for 800 VDC, then it would take special 800 VDC SC’s to charge. More likely they have their own dedicated ‘Megacharger’ style stations right at or near the plant’s receiving docks around the back.”

I would think that indeed the Semi Trucks would have their own Megachargers, and not be “sipping” from regular Superchargers, even if the voltage was compatible.

Supercharger stalls simply are not big enough for a Semi Truck. Standard widths for a semi trailer are either 102″ or 96″, and the cab is about the same. Compare to a width of 77.3″ (without mirrors) for the Model S. So if a Semi Truck did park in a Supercharger station, it would occupy 2 stalls.

It seems most reasonable to believe that Megacharger stations will be more spread out, with larger parking spaces, just like truck stops have larger parking spaces at the pumps than regular gas stations.

These are PROTOTYPES. I’m guessing that “charging” them will consist of hooking them up to a massive charger with bolted-on cables at this point. We’ve seen the charge port, and it’s pretty huge, but I think these monsters are probably a little less ‘finished’ than they look. That’s the nature of this kind of design.

>1MW is not something you want to mess with.

Those side mirrors look like nerd glasses. I sure hope they are able to ditch them eventually.

If this is a one-way trip from Sparks, NV, it would be an essentially downhill run (Sparks is at 4400′ above sea level). I would be very interested to see performance numbers for the California to Sparks uphill run fully loaded.

Fully loaded with what though, the GF1 is supplier to the Fremont factory that makes finished goods. I think more interesting is how fast they can get back empty and how much energy it takes to do so. They brilliant thing is that they get about 4600 feet of elevation drop in regenerative energy to charge the battery on the way down.

Fully loaded with NCA powder from Japan. Or lithium or graphite. Or motor components from Taiwan. Or any number of other parts the GF uses that are shipped to the Bay Area.

Good Point

I believe I saw something that suggested most of the raw materials and parts destined for the GF arrive via the Oakland container-port.

So the Semis would have to pull container-carrying flat-beds up and van trailers back.

Even more basic questions:

What was the unladen weight of the semi?

What was the weight of the load?

Was the trip non-stop?

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Beat me to it#

African or European swallow?

The point being, and I’m sure it’s lost in many, that the swallow is a migratory bird – European in the summer, African in the winter.

No wonder the bridgekeeper didn’t know and was thrown into the abyss.

African swallows are non-migratory.

Hmmm. Then the joke is broken. Tried to ask our friend Wikipedia, and it says the term is highly ambiguous and that there are many African birds in the swallow family called swallows, as well as many that are not called swallows. What they actually mean by “African birds” is unclear, but it appears to refer to populations, not species. For example, the “West African swallow” turned out to be the species cecropis daurica, aka “red-rumped swallow”, which is found in Africa, Asia, and Europe. The Asian and African birds are resident, and the European ones are migratory, it says. So as far as I can tell wiki says this species is “an African bird”, yet it speaks of “the Asian birds” and “the European birds” as subsets of this “African bird”. Since the European birds must migrate to Africa or Asia (the species is on these continents and no others, it follows that the same individual bird is “a European African” bird if it’s migratory, even when it is in Africa… Having seen how messy it is to describe these concepts, at least in layman language like Wikipedia attempts to, I think the joke does work. And it has… Read more »

Self licking ice cream cone.

Another Euro point of view
Being skeptical of that semi thing for a few reasons: 1/ About aerodynamics, I wonder how many percent improvement current set-up does give considering that what matters way more than front shape for such characteristics is the rear shape. I mean we master aerodynamics rather well since about a century and we would suddenly discover now that making a cool darth vader looking front with otherwise completely non laminar air flows at the truncated end makes does wonders ? 2/ Daimler skepticism about it. As I treated aerodynamics in above above 1/ then what’s left is the battery cells performances to explain ground breaking these semi performances (range/payload). That would suggest that Tesla has made a breakthrough in battery chemistry. Possible but Tesla is not the only company making battery research, Tesla does not make battery cells, other companies are involved in li-ion battery cells research/manufacturing for a much longer time and with larger means than Tesla. 3/ The only other technology claim made by Musk that I can think of are self driving performances, so credentials could be improved. 4/ Current rate of losses is about $0.7B – $0.8B per quarter, taking into account debt servicing, capex needs etc.… Read more »

LOL!! 3/ => understatement of the year!

Holy crap you can’t give Tesla or Elon a break? I would love to have a diesel truck blow some toxic emissions in your face with your mouth open.

I don’t think I’m disturbing Elon Musk in the slightest. In any case he’s not very fond of breaks, according to his biography.

But I’m increasingly annoyed by the utter lack of skepticism that many of Tesla’s stunts are still met with. And that motivates me to attempt to bring a little balance to the mix. I think the track record shows that there’s very good reason not to jump to conclusions regarding Tesla’s readiness to deliver, and to consider every tweet and every Instagram post from that source as a media stunt with unknown substance.

I still have my Model 3 reservation. And I continue to wish Tesla grows up and becomes less hyped and more honest, a company that in deeds aligns more closely with the hype. I just don’t see much use for another comment cheering then on in a sea of others, and think it’s more useful to point out the caveats.

Mister G wasn’t even addressing you. He was addressing the serial Tesla basher, “Another Euro” FUDster.

“It’s not about you.”

Another Euro point of view

MBA in Tesla bashing & fudsting to serve you dear Pu&Pu 🙂

Ok, my mistake. But if screaming FUD constitutes your counterargument to the IMO well-made points he raised, he wins by default.

See George’s and my article regarding the under-reported importance of trailer aero (and regen) to Tesla’s claimed performance specs.


In the 4-part deep-dive series linked at the end of today’s article, we did find that Tesla actually can meet the technical specs quoted without breakthrough technology (and so could any other truck manufacturer if they really wanted to), but we couldn’t get the quoted price to work, no matter how we turned it.

I read the whole series. Please forgive me for not finding it very convincing. I’m a software engineer, not a mechanical engineer or a physicist, so it’s not so easy for me to evaluate your analysis. If I’ve understood correctly you also lack any real credentials to undertake the analysis, not being physicists yourself..? IIRC, you didn’t estimate the energy demands from repeated accelerations and elevation change. Even with regen they are significant and both increase proportionally with mass. For a fully loaded truck I imagine they can’t be ignored without seriously skewing the results. But ok, maybe it won’t take alien technology to deliver the specs. Even so, your finding is still that it seems impossible for Tesla to deliver what they are promising, even if that’s due to cost alone. And even though it happened in the context of SpaceX and not Tesla, I really think Elon’s proposal to travel Earth-to-Earth in his big f-ing rocket (their name, not mine!) is just absolutely devastating to his credibility. Saying that transitioning to sustainable energy is the most important thing mankind can do and also suggesting that simply doesn’t compute. Travel by rocket is not only an old idea, but… Read more »

“IIRC, you didn’t estimate the energy demands from repeated accelerations and elevation change.”

Wrong. we did.

“I read the whole series. Please forgive me for not finding it very convincing. I’m a software engineer,”

I guess that explains it. next time read the article better before you start making comments

Jeeze, take a chill pill. We were discussing my comments in this thread which had nothing to do with that article. I pointed out myself I wasn’t sure if I remembered correctly, and that it’s difficult for me (as for 99% of readers) to evaluate your analysis, and asked what your credentials/qualifications for undertaking it are. I also pointed out that it doesn’t matter either way, and why!! YOU concluded it’s impossible to deliver as promised, and with respect to whether Tesla speaks truth it makes zero difference if that is due to kilogramme of batteries needed or cost of those batteries. It’s categorically IRRELEVANT, and that’s why I couldn’t be bothered to go look again at the articles. Would you please tell me what your qualifications are for making the analysis? And why do you think other manufacturers claim it’s not feasible? Obviously they could be lying or incompetent, while Tesla could be honest and competent. It just doesn’t look that way, and I do wonder why that is. I haven’t seen you insist on anybody else who comments on this article that they should remember everything from your four-article analysis “before they comment”. It’s hard not to suspect… Read more »
Another Euro point of view

OK, thanks. Very interesting article. I did not even know this section of Insideevs did exist.
The bottom lines however ( “and so could any other truck manufacturer if they really wanted to” and “but we couldn’t get the quoted price to work, no matter how we turned it”) really says it all. So could be same pattern than with the $35k Model 3 with long waiting list that gives the supporting story for a capital raise. Rinse & repeat. Now in case we see a $35k Tesla Model 3 by year end-sold in significant numbers (in tenth of thousands) then I volunteer to declare myself an idiot on this very site.

HVACman said: “See George’s and my article regarding the under-reported importance of trailer aero (and regen) to Tesla’s claimed performance specs.” See also the comments to that article, refuting a lot of the premises you used when writing that article; see also the fact that you added an “update” to the tail end of that article in response to those comments, without actually changing any of the premises the article is based on. As I pointed out in comments, what Tesla showed in the Reveal for the Semi Truck appeared to be a perfectly normal trailer with more or less standard trailer skirts. The idea that the trailer itself has regen is just your fanciful idea, and you have no evidence at all to support that assumption. Common sense says that Tesla won’t limit its market to the rather small niche it would serve if its customers had to buy special trailers and use only those with the Tesla Semi Trucks, to get the range and the economy that Tesla is advertising. The fact that trucking companies typically keep about 5 trailers in the fleet for every tractor, makes the idea of tractors which need special trailers even less appealing… Read more »

“The idea that the trailer itself has regen is just your fanciful idea, and you have no evidence at all to support that assumption.”

We never said it HAS regen we said it would be a good addition. A desirable option that would pay for itself

Your arguement that the tractor can do all the work is just flat wrong.

As to the aero part all we did is suggest that full aero is a good addition as well.

You already admited the reveal truck did not have full aero, and this black truck set up shown here certainly doesn’t have it.

All we were suggesting is full aero and regen would be a great addition.

Your whole discussion is illogical.

This is a great moment in History. Many others can’t even imagine a Semi that is all electric let along be the 1st. Tesla is still 10 years ahead of EVeryone.

Congratulations TESLA

Slow learner. It’s a great moment when Tesla delivers on its promises, not when it announces them. So far, their record is a string of broken promises. Model S was promised to be a $56k sedan. (At the time they stated price after incentives, which the tiny print in low-contrast light gray on white made totally clear.) Model 3 was promised to be a $35k sedan. Except that when the Model S was announced as above, Project BlueStar would be about half the price of the $56k sedan, which in non-Tesla universes equals $28k. I don’t remember what they made up about the Model X, but that too never materialized. Not just the promised prices, but also the promised time of delivery has in every case turned out to be consistently optimistic. Obviously none of this was in any way deliberate deception on the part of Tesla. They are just chronically optimistic over there. And optimism is good, right? However much or little you think Tesla resembles snake oil salesmen, you should be able to agree that what they actually deliver is what can make history, not what they announce. If not, Faraday Future and a bunch of other wannabes… Read more »

Short memory? It is more like dementia that you are suffering from Terawatt. Tesla originally said S would cost about $60,000. It was available at $57,400 for several years. Not a promise but estimate exceeded.

In 2008 Bluestar was estimated to cost less than $30,000. Note 30k is about half of the “about 60k” of the S. In constant dollar terms that would be about $36,000 in late 2018. Again not a promise but estimate will be exceeded.

Dementia prevents you from whining about MX.

Tesla MX was delivered late but the first six were delivered in accordance with the revised schedule. It was the ramp up that they failed miserably on.

TM3 was actually delivered early relative to schedule. Again it was the ramp up that they have failed on.

It would appear you are either selling snake oil or are suffering from Alzheimer’s/dementia or possibly you are just doing what Putin is paying for.

So what you are saying is that Elon Musk can throw out 10 conflicting statements/promises and as long as one of those at least somewhat comes true it means he did exactly as he said?

“500k cars in 2017.”
“There should be no doubt that we will make 200k cars in 2H 2017”
“It looks like we can do 20k in december 2017”
“5k per week late december”
“‘Extrapolated’ 1000 cars/week the last week in december”
“2.5k per week in Q1 2018, 5k per week in Q2”

… and so far they’ve barely managed 600 cars per week.

Oh yeah, this is a good one: “The model 3 is designed for volume manufacturing” LOL!

No. What i’m Saying is what yo’uve Pointed out. That Elon has repeatedly been wrong about production ramp ups and on that he should not be trusted. When Elon was predicting100-200 K cars in 2017 I was saying 10-20k and I was dismissed as a hater. Elon has been wrong about ramp up schedules repeatedly. There is no doubt about that but he has been very consistently correct about specs.

What can you offer to question the specs? So far a collective nada.

Well, I can offer that they are convicted in Norwegian courts of false advertising and had to pay settlement to many Tesla owners because the maximum power the cars actually could deliver was much lower than Tesla has said it was, according to the court.

So basically to a legal standard of proof, beyond reasonable doubt, Tesla has been found not to deliver the promised specs.

If these trucks are as good as Elon claims, only production capacity will slow sales down.

Given Tesla’s relationship to truth, am I the only one thinking it’s rather convenient that the first use case is to move batteries for Tesla..? Seems like it would be rather easy to cheat and just tap a few percent off the cargo, and voila, you have a superficially convincing demonstration of incredible range..!

Snake oil salesmen have been known to cheat at times. If Elon did something like this and just make up excuses until a battery exists that can deliver the promised range and performance, it would actually no longer shock me.

Another Euro point of view

For people unconditionally believing all what Musk says I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn…

Dude, you have gone completely mental as you endlessly rant about your flawed perception of Musk/Tesla telling the “truth”.

If you want to see real liars and “snake oil salesmen” then why don’t you look closer to home at VW and the other German car companies lying about their CRIMINAL diesel emissions.

Musk being over optimistic and pushing difficult deadlines not met is different from try lying like your German OEMs did!


Unlike you, I’ve read multiple reports about dieselgate. I know, for example, that among all the Euro6 diesels approved in Europe, VWs had the lowest real-world NOx emissions of any manufacturer. Fiat-Chrysler has the highest – about eight times as high as VW.

Tell me, what do you think of Elon Musk’s proposal to use BFR for Earth-to-Earth travel? How do you square that with his earlier statement that the best long-distance travel solution would be a supersonic, electric jet? Or his claim that the reason he started Tesla was to “accelerate the world’s transitioning to sustainable energy”?

Do you *care* whether or not Tesla is honest or just snake oil? Or do you get angry at anyone audacious enough to challenge the nice belief that Tesla is good?

I am very open to being convinced that Tesla is different and not just in it for the money. But responses like this so nothing to help me square the seemingly contradictory evidence.

Elon is doing more to save humanity than anyone on planet Earth. So he can get away with polluting a little with SpaceX.

Wake up and smell the coffee. He proposed using his rocket for trips we do in airplanes, not space missions. It’s never going to happen, of course, and Elon is fully aware of that, and that is the point!!

Another Euro point of view

The problem Get real is that being “over optimistic” is an amazingly convenient way to have people giving away their monies.

Master plan part a: I am super optimistic that we can built a Model 3 for $35K ! Very conveniently the market of a car costing $27’500 ($35K less $7.5k tax rebate) is about 5 times as big as the market for a $50k car.

master plan part b: I have a 400K list of reservation ! Give me all your monies so I can start to build them !

We already saw that with the supposedly $5B gigafactory that is supposed to produce 50 Gwh of batteries this year. A huge sale of new shares took place to fund that factory. What could be the present rate of battery cell manufacturing at the GF right now ? According to IEVs own estimations, a production of 100k Model 3 in 2018 would need about 7 GWh of battery cells. 50 GWh > < 7 GWh… you see. So yes, being optimistic with the right talent like Musk obviously has can be very lucrative. Now it could be a coincidence.

The battery isn’t the problem. 900 kwh will do it (caveat – WITH the right trailer!) and they can fit them in that tractor. The engineering doesn’t defy physics.

But the accounting? Ah, therein lies the rub.
Sell a 900 kWh, 1000 HP electric Class-8 semi for $180K and make an actual net profit? That only happens with a major dose of financial smoke-and-mirrors unless Tesla is holding some new low-cost cell-chemistry magic potion beyond anything anyone else believes is even close to being marketable.

The “books” are really where TSLA’s credibility problems lie. But financial judgment day continues to draw closer and the Peter-robbing and Paul-paying game will eventually have to cease.

Another Euro point of view


“Sell a 900 kWh, 1000 HP electric Class-8 semi for $180K and make an actual net profit? That only happens with a major dose of financial smoke-and-mirrors unless Tesla is holding some new low-cost cell-chemistry magic potion…”

No, just the cost-cutting which Tesla spokesmen have been talking about for years, with extreme vertical integration at Gigafactory One.

Tesla’s estimate for how much they can reduce battery prices may turn out to be overly optimistic, given the difficulties they are having in ramping up automated production of the battery packs. But neither “magic chemistry” nor any quantum jump in technology is needed; just large-scale processing of materials and efficient automation.

Bottom line: You don’t know what Tesla’s costs are for its batteries, either at cell level or at pack level. Claiming that Tesla’s estimated prices are impossible when you don’t even know their costs, is pretty silly.

Another Euro point of view

“just the cost-cutting which Tesla spokesmen have been talking about for years”

Come on Pu&Pu… is Tesla was a wife she would make Warren Buffett poor in no time…

“Sell a 900 kWh, 1000 HP electric Class-8 semi for $180K and make an actual net profit? That only happens with a major dose of financia”

Ok so let’s walk thru the numbers. Semis start at $80k. Subtract the $15k of diesel drivetrain that we don’t need and add $10k for Tesla specific upgrades and electronics excluding batteries and that leaves us with $105kfor a 900kWh battery or about $117 per kWh. Battery expert, Pedro Lima of pushevs.com has been writing about NMC 811 coming this summer and he pegs The price of those at 100 euros per kWH or $ 124 per kWh this summer. Subtract LG’s 4% profit margin and we’re looking at $119 per kWH. That is this summer. Battery prices have been falling by 16% per year in spite of increases in raw material costs. Does anyone believe that prices won’t fall by more than two percent in the next 2 years? If not then Why the incredulity? I don’t follow the logic that because Tesla has been late on product ramp ups therefore battery prices will stop falling. Could one of you naysayers explain?

Absolutely! If the price point is real Tesla needs to have a cell cost at about $35/kWh. Now that is obviously not even remotely true.

If they really did have such cells they would be idiots to not put that cell in their cars which would DRAMATICALLY improve Tesla’s gross margin, which by the way is now down to 13.8%.

“Absolutely! If the price point is real Tesla needs to have a cell cost at about $35/kWh. Now that is obviously not even remotely true.”

Give us your numbers so we can point out your mistakes. Above I’ve shown that a pack price between $100 and 120 per kWh should be adequate. Please explain how you derived a cell cost of 30-35% of the pack cost. That makes no sense at all.

It can’t be real!!!! Mind blown out of skull? Mission accomplished.

In the first paragraph I think California is misspelled.

Does it take a megacharger to fuel one of these trucks? Can another type of charger be substituted until megachargers are installed? Where I live there are hundreds of WalMart and Fed Ex trucks that run the same route daily on the roads here and they usually are less than 200 miles round trip. They could probably use a 1,000 of these Tesla trucks.

> Does it take a megacharger to fuel one of these trucks?

Not when your cargo is all batteries… Slow charge them at the gigafactory to about 80% and you’ll battery-swap every trip.

Great way to make it look as if you have the technology everyone else says you cannot possibly have. And in a world where people take a man seriously even when he proposes traveling point-to-point on planet Earth with his next rocket ship, you can probably expect to get away with it. (Whatever happened to “transitioning to sustainable energy”? Even Musk hasn’t tried to convince anyone his rocket can use batteries!)

LOL so you think they just took a couple model 3 battery packs in the back of the semi and strung them together with jumper cables and ran an 800v jumper back up to the cab? Get out of here.

Another Euro point of view

Have you got evidence this is not the case ? I mean this company is as transparent as mud. Monthly sales figures like the rest of the industry ? Noooo. Simply providing Californian authorities about full self driving miles made like the rest of the car industry ? Nooo, rather testing self driving somewhere in Patagonia in between Llamas perhaps. Their financials reports (10k etc..) are nauseating words & figures salads about which (and very conveniently) all type of conclusions can be drawn. I am not saying here that Tesla should give away its secrets about a prototype, far from that, but for sure assuming things about Tesla is a little far fetched.

And yet TSLA hovers at $330 per share LOL

Another Euro point of view

Good for you if you are a shareholder, Musk’s talents indeed has its positive aspects.

Tesla used to be far more open and transparent, far more so than legacy auto makers.

It’s too bad that serial Tesla bashers like you, “Another Euro” FUDster, keep twisting Tesla’s facts and figures into the lies you use in your attempt to tear down the good name of this company, which is trying to make the world a better place.

Tesla has had to become far more opaque because of the way Tesla haters like you kept using their own openness against them. 🙁

Another Euro point of view

I just don’t like the guy, can’t help it 🙁 🙁 As I am all in favor of electrification it is most inconvenient so from time to time I convince myself that my first impression was wrong and I go again see one of his interviews on Youtube and end up not finding anything genuine/fresh/caring/warm in his body language. To me he is just an arrogant a……e, however a very intelligent one.

Really, “body language”?

You are a fool if you put your reading of Musk’s “body language” before, uh…HIS ACTIONS!

He has relentlessly disrupted an entire industry (actually several industries) throughly wedded to ICE for as far out as we could see and Tesla (with an assist from government regulations in some cases) has forced these laggard, legacy companies to at least start to pivot.

So, if VAG really does go big on EVs, Tesla is a big part of the reason along with their CRIMINAL conduct on emissions cheating and some governments’ actions or proposed actions.

You are also throughly wrapped around the axle on Tesla’s finances as they GROW THEIR CAPABILITIES.

Smart money is always looking to invest in the high-growth future (with its inherent risks), rather then the low-growth past.

You will see that when Tesla is out producing the big boys in compelling PEVs because they had the smarts to build out their battery supply and did other important things like trailblaze the path with their designs and charger network, etc.

That’s OK, we can’t stand you.

“Does it take a megacharger to fuel one of these trucks? Can another type of charger be substituted until megachargers are installed?”

Assuming HVACman is correct in saying the Tesla Semi Truck uses 800 volt charging (and I have no reason to doubt that), then charging at a regular EV fast-charging station (Supercharger or otherwise) would take a voltage converter. Having to haul one of those along would be rather awkward; where would you put it, unless you used a special trailer built with a space for that?

No, I think it’s safe to say that with few exceptions, these trucks will be driven only where they can be recharged at a dedicated Megacharger at the end of every shift. That won’t be any problem at all for those using them for local deliveries, where the truck is returned to the same fleet depot every night. Longer distance runs, such as between Gigafactory One and Tesla’s Fremont plant, will require Megachargers to be installed at each end of the run.

“Does it take a Megacharger”?
No, of course not. Megachargers are for long-range “tramp” routes, where the truck is hired ot perform a service,

Much of semitrailer usage is on mid-range routes between fixed points, like pretty much all the early customers mentioned (food & beverage, FedEx etc.) In those cases, the users of the trucks also own them. Charging will happen overnight on private chargers owned by the customers, basically destination chargers, using ~100kW charging rates.


Come’on IEVs can you please enable an Ignore User function! I’m sure there are plenty of people who frequent this site that would do it for cheap for you!!!!!!

Are your pink panties in a bunch? LOL

“Come’on IEVs can you please enable an Ignore User function!”

Yeah, we really need that so we can Ignore all the bull pucky from serial Tesla bashers like you.

“Come’on IEVs can you please enable an Ignore User function”

They already have an ignore option but it is only available to moderators and they have you on ignore. ?

I’m not a big fan of moderating comments, but if ever there was a clear-cut case in favour of it, this must be it. Repeatedly posting the same nonsense in all caps in reply to seemingly randomly selected posts doesn’t contribute anything valuable or entertaining.

Another Euro point of view

OK, bottom line would probably be that if this more or less works out, even for shorter range than anticipated here, it is all good for air quality (& noise !). Now I am so sorry this as to come packaged in Elon Musk’s sauce that in the mid term could have devastating effects on EV mobility credibility when it turns out his company is a house of cards that was mainly built on hype. Now I just hope that by that time, the Hyundai Kona’s and Nissan Leafs and other BYD garbage trucks & busses will have made it mainstream and that it will be too late to turn back to ICE.

Oh please. Cut back on the drama.

I don’t think we need to worry about that. Unlike what the Tesla cult members imagine, there’s little evidence that the industry moving along has much to do with Tesla. Instead, it seems to have much to do with government regulations, partly from California, but mainly from China and India which all the major manufacturers cannot ignore. Even the EU may move, although Germany has so far had much more concern for its national champions than European citizens (and nothing happens in the EU against Germany’s will). The dynamic is pretty simple. Even if, say, a European maker decided that the EU is all the market they need, China and India makes it impossible to stay with ICE. Everyone in the industry knows EVs will be not just better for society, but better and cheaper for the buyer, in just a few years (ignoring total cost and pretending sticker price is the whole story). Political pressure to address pollution and GHG in particular is a megatrend and likely to just keep increasing for decades. Hence, even if all makers except the Chinese conspired to ignore EVs, all they would achieve is to let China take over their home markets without… Read more »

Fantastic, so Tesla is taking the Semi for the first use. Nice to see the batteries being transported to make more Model-3.

This will show how reliable and cost effective the truck is.

Pretty soon these trucks will carry solar panels, batteries and other equipment’s to build a charging stations as well.

awesome. Time to put some more bonds out for sale!

Yeah awsome, time for the serial anti-Tesla trolls like yourself to put out some more FUD.

Been reading the nonsense debate on speculations about the semi and find it funny that so little truth can be found in the writings.

However, one cannot downplay the impact Elon Musk has made on the automobile industry and moving them toward cleaning up the Planet. In effect they either follow his lead or chance bankruptcy. And, even if he never meets another optimistic milestone, he has been good for everyone, even the Europeans with brain damage caused by breathing all that bad air from 100 years of diesel soaking(ha).

This is delusion, pure and simple. What impact are you referring to? Tesla delivered 0.1 million of the 90 million total in 2017. If things for once go according to plan, they’ll make a million, just over 1% of all cars, in 2020 – but more realistically they might reach 0.5%. Even with the cars being in above-average price brackets, it is plainly obvious that Tesla doesn’t pose a huge danger to the big players in the short term. They could still do so in the longer term. Gigafactory could prove to be a major strategic advantage. But equally Tesla has big disadvantages, like their small scale. When VW has their modular platform in place they will be able to quickly roll out many new models. For each of those they can make lots of “sibling” products – a couple of cheap Skodas, an affordable and sightly sportier Seat or two, five VW versions and three Audis. This is what they already do (VW Golf, many different body styles and motor alternatives, a family by itself, is technically nearly the same car as the Skoda Octavia, also several variants, the Seat Leon, and the Audi A3) and it’s what they… Read more »

The trolls are squirming, incapable celebrating this important moment in the development of sustainable transport. Instead they are munching on their sour grapes. Keep it coming, I’m enjoying it. Your pain is showing.

Tesla isn’t perfect and Musk isn’t the pope. They stumble, they fall, and then pick themselves up again get the job done. They move the needle forward. The Tesla Semi won’t be an exception.

I dislike Musk a fair amount but after nikola abandoned their electric semi project this actually makes me happy. certainly more than their “affordable” model 3 or upcoming roadster but at least the roadster also stands to do some real disrupting — again more than their model 3 which does little more than get another expensive car into affording hands. I’d say the model x and s both set the ball rolling just as much if not more than the model 3 in regard to getting other manufactures in the mix.

Nikola abandoned their semi truck project? Why? Maybe nikola was a scam like many claim TESLA to be lol

You meant to say BATTERY electric semi, right? http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/nikola-motor-will-build-its-electric-semi-trucks-in-arizona/

FOOL CELL powered as PUPU would say. Maybe this is a niche for hydrogen power since storage facilities would be needed at each terminal location?
Who knows- Nikola could be onto something … or it could be hype?

Hummm, all I see is Toyota driving Hydrogen trucks around, Daimler driving their trucks around, and now Tesla has one (or more? I don’t know) truck driving.

I simply don’t know how you can extrapolate from that without hard information.

As of 10 pm Thursday March 8 has anyone heard IF the Tesla semi trucks completed the battery & returned YET ? I mean it’s been over a day.

That guy is following them and posting repeatedly. Hopefully, we’ll catch when he posts the return video in a bit.