After Seeing Car, Analyst Says Tesla Model 3 Fit And Finish Is “Relatively Poor”

Tesla Model 3

NOV 12 2017 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 84

Institutional investors are checking out the Tesla Model 3 this weekend in New York and at least one such investor/analyst who’s seen the car in person says it’s not quite up to expectations.

Tesla Model 3

Blue Tesla Model 3

Upon viewing the Model 3 up close and personal, Bernstein analyst Toni Sacconaghi concludes it has widespread shortcomings in fit and finish. This has long been a problem with early release Teslas and now we’re learning the issue(s) haven’t been corrected yet on the Model 3, despite it being in production for some 4 months now.

Sacconaghi stated that his inspection of the Model 3 “revealed widespread shortcomings in fit and finish.” He added:

“We had the opportunity to see and test drive the Model 3 at Tesla’s showroom in Red Hook Brooklyn, NY … Fit and finish on the two demo cars we saw – perhaps not surprisingly – was relatively poor.”

“While we doubt that it would impact (or even be noticed by) most prospective buyers, we do worry that poor overall initial quality could undermine Tesla’s brand and potentially overwhelm its service network.”

“Tesla representatives acknowledged some of the fit issues, but stated that they believed that Model 3 was much further ahead than where Model X and S had been at this point in production.”

“…we can’t help noting that Tesla likely chose to share with us its highest quality/best assembled units, so issues on other cars may be even more pronounced.”

Certainly not the takeaway Tesla would’ve hoped for.

It would seem, investors/analysts are also not allowed to comment on their driving experience of the Model 3.   CNBC noted earlier on the invitation sent to institutional investors of UBS.

“It says drivers at the closed-door event will be accompanied by Tesla representatives and barred from taking photos or videos.”

CNBC reached out to Tesla for comment on the fit and finish issues brought up by Sacconaghi, but the automaker didn’t respond.

Source: CNBC, 2

Categories: Tesla

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84 Comments on "After Seeing Car, Analyst Says Tesla Model 3 Fit And Finish Is “Relatively Poor”"

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> It would seem, investors/analysts are also not allowed to comment on their driving experience of the Model 3.

I wonder why? Is it poor? YT videos don’t seem to indicate it.

I am starting to sound like a short seller, but this gagging of everyone who sees/drives a “production” car is not confidence inspiring.

I have seen some severe misalignments in some reviews. Nothing that can be fixed.

Sacconaghi’s $265 price target needed some hype. Panel gaps are better to the naked eye.

The car weighs about what a BMW M3 or Audi S5 does, but with its weight munch lower and centered. I don’t need a nerd to tell me what to expect.

You don’t buy a Tesla for fit and finish, you buy for range and technology.

You buy a Toyota for fit and finish

if you pay upwards of $50k for a car you want both performance and finish

I think a lot of (but not all) car buyers are willing to accept less than perfect fit and finish on a Tesla, whereas if they were buying a BMW or Audi for the same price they would expect the fit and finish to be nearly perfect. The Tesla brings other factors to the table.

Absolutely. People who buy cars as more than just appliances are picky about such things.

True for the worst of the zealots but Tesla is aiming for mainstream now, they are not as forgiving as the first adopters

I don’t think it is just zealots that will give Tesla a little room for error when it comes to fit and finish. There is a spectrum of views on fit and finish, some are incredibly demanding and some don’t notice it at all. The vast majority are in the middle and a huge portion of them will give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this. But you are right that Tesla will need to tighten things up eventually as other BEV makers start to market 200+ miles of AER cars.
Tesla has time and good will. I hope they don’t squander them both.

What a ridiculous comment.

I don’t see why it’s “ridiculous”- just an observation based on close examination & comparison to other vehicles.
You must justify your ‘ridiculous’ comment.

How is it ridiculous when you look at their record?

Yes, good fit and finish will help Tesla, but it’s undoubtedly not a priority for Tesla buyers thus far, as nearly every $100k car on the market beats the S and X on that front.

Tesla has at least a year and probably two before fit and finish starts cutting demand below production capability.

JD Powers does not support your claim that Toyota is an example of a maker with good fit and finish.

So what??

jahav said:

“but this gagging of everyone who sees/drives a “production” car is not confidence inspiring.”

It’s a “development production” car.

It is a production car but it is being developed in the field by employees. It has not finished its validation testing.

This is news? Apparently, these analysts live under a rock. Youtube is awash with Tesla’s poor fit and finish videos, not to mention forum comments. There are few givens with Tesla, and they won’t be different with 3.

1. They will be late.

2. They have poor fit and finish, even after 4 years in production in case of some S.

3. You will wait for service, and sometimes (often?) poor service.

If you expect otherwise, you will be disappointed.

yea, who cares, where else you gonna get a cool EV with range and charging network????

That seats 7, kicks Lamborghini’s butts 0-60, looks better than an Austin Martin and cost less, has two trunks, hatchback versatility and uses zero gas…

I’ll live with a chrome strip that isn’t perfect.

That’s the point I’m making. Poor fit and finish and other issues, but the overall value is still very good. That’s why people still buy Teslas, and that’s what people expect. At least I hope people expect them; otherwise, there will be many sour buyers.

James, you point out a lot of reasons that people are willing to accept less than perfect fit and finish on a new Tesla. But I do hope (and believe) that within a couple years Tesla will improve the fit and finish on their cars. Maybe not to Lexus or Audi standards, but better than they have been to date.

2&3 are spoken like a GM fan member, who doesn’t own a Tesla. So many owner complaints are stupid, like DeMuro picking in the front door chrome (featured an image). Just lift it to even it up? Some MS panells are wider, but not a huge issue. Service issues are mostly bodyshop, and and the few stories blown way out of proportion about some service centers getting stacked up. What poor service are you referring to??

Tesla owners can be pretty car-clueless, and tech oriented. That shows frequently in comments/reviews.

“Some MS panells are wider … few stories blown way out of proportion”

I expect those problems from $15K car like SparkEV, not from $35K car, and definitely not $80K car. How often do you hear of such stories from Bolt and Leaf?

And it’s not just one or two. Go look at youtube. I count at least a dozen. Some of those problems I wouldn’t even accept on $15K car.

Interesting thing is, most of them still love Tesla (as do I) despite the problems. This is why Tesla stock is flying high; it seems they can’t never do no wrong.

Car’s attributes are easily compared to women.

Find me the perfect woman and I’ll call you crazy.

Marry a LEAF if you wish, many people do. Or how about a Bolt?

We used to make these comparisons and use a Ferrari and a Toyota. One is sexy but high maintenance and unreliable, the other reliable as hell but…The Tesla is sexy, practical and generally low maintenance.

I’ll stick with the Tesla, thank you.

-1 for double sexism

While I agree with you overall, you yet again refer to the Spark EV as a $15K car. Nope, it isn’t, and never was, sold commercially, so the price on it isn’t relevant.

Yes, it was not just a US compliance vehicle, being also sold in Canada, Mexico & South Korea. However, it was only sold in the CARB states and incentivizing Canadian provinces;
the car was basically used as wide-scale engineering pilot that was also sold so that GM would also gain some experience in the dealership sales & service aspects of BEVs.

What matters is how much SparkEV were being sold, and that’s about $15K due to most being in CA.

But SparkEV is pretty much electrified SparkGas with expected fit and finish. SparkGas with options similar to SparkEV starts at about $15K (1LT). The point I make on fit and finish is valid even if you consider SparkGas instead of SparkEV.

And if I was a competitor / short seller to Tesla, I would not think to discredit them through a few fake youtube videos….? Not like that ever happens in other multi million dollar races….?

pjwood1 said:

“What poor service are you referring to??”

Thank you! Overall, Tesla has an excellent reputation for superior service. That’s one of the reasons Tesla consistently tops the list of Consumer Reports’ ratings for customer satisfaction, for all auto makers, not just makers of EVs.

The fact that a few people post outlier complaints about the relatively few exceptions should not alter the opinion of those exercising even a small amount of critical reading. You can find similar complaints about every car makers’ service centers.

I prefer a poor fit And finished electric car ,than a rich fit And finished petrol car ,so it is a matter of taste And demand .

Another Euro point of view

OK but no car makers can expect to make a commercial success only depending on customers like you. Behavior you describe is exactly the alternative reality/bubble that Tesla need to get out of if it wants to succeed with the Model 3. I

Gosh, how terrible that Tesla car buyers have to put up with exactly the same less than absolutely perfect fit-and-finish as found in virtually every car you see in any parking lot, if you bother to look closely at them. 🙄

Where do you find cars with absolutely perfect fit and finish? In the computer renders found in all modern car commercials. Not in real life! That is exactly why auto makers no longer use real cars in their TV and magazine ads; because you can’t find cars in real life which have that absolute perfection.

I would hope mine to be flawless, but if it’s not, it’s still not a dealbreaker. My Detroit built GM’s Opel Ampera also has plenty of fit and finish issues.

At least you got one. Not many people can say that.

It’s the 1. gen Chevy Volt Ampera, not the confusingly named Bolt Ampera-E.

Another Euro point of view

Out of curiosity I went on Youtube to see Bjorn Nyland video’s about his Model X problems, a long list of 25 items if I remember well. I guess the big difference between Tesla fans and normal users is probably tolerance to many little issues such as rattle, misalignments etc. Now Bjorn had his Model X failing on him twice, among those 2 times once 600km away from his home and in the middle of the night (amazing how calmly he reacted to that, he had his car stuck at the service center for repair for two weeks just before being stranded like this). Do that with “normal customers” like Model 3 is supposed to be addressed to and its finished, finito, Model 3 becomes a collector item like De Lorean’s.

Reliability and fit and finish is WAY more important than a 3 months delay in production. Take 6 months/9 months/ a year delay before issuing Model 3 to non employees but these cars must be flawless (an no, Bjorn Model X wasn’t taken away because of the falcon wing doors or anything specific to Model X complexity, it was plain battery/drive train failure).

Another Euro point of view

..as an example of how modern cars are expected to be in that segment. Our family $25K Skoda octavia (VW group car with a very frugal dirty VW TDI engine in it) has 150K miles/7 years and there is exactly 0 (ZERO) rattle/noise to it even on a very bad road. All it needed during those 7 years is tires, brake pads, one set of front brake disks + oil & filters. That is what “normal” customers expect from a car (at least I do), if it happens one day that I can’t get that from VW group I would go to the Japs or the Koreans.

Another Euro point of view

…forgot sets of new tires & windshield wipers (rather obvious but whatever little imprecision and one runs the risk to be eaten alive by a pack of cultists).

It’s particularly stupid of Tesla to deliver a lemon to Björn of all people. They know he has a significant audience and any of his issues will be seen by a lot of people generating a lot of negative press. They should have inspected that particular car extra carefully before delivering it to him.

I think Bjørn should be the one to decide if his car is a “lemon” or not, and clearly he think it isn’t. It shouldn’t be the decision of some random Tesla hating troll posting to the Internet.

But maybe that’s just me. 🙄

Another Euro point of view

OK, now on the other hand, if Bjorn precisely reports a list of 25 items that needed to be fixed and reports that he is twice stranded with his Model X needing a flatbed to be brought to the garage, one does not really needs Bjorn opinion to make an educated guess of what Bjorn’s car really is.

In a way, I agree with you: One doesn’t need to watch Bjørn’s videos about Tesla cars to know that Tesla consistently tops the list of all auto makers in customer satisfaction, according to Consumer Reports surveys.

You can see the same with Edmunds.com’s long-term driving review of the Model S. Edmunds got an early 2013 Model S, which — like many of those early production units — wound up needing many visits to Tesla’s service department.

Despite that, the Edmunds.com guys writing the reviews of the Model S, said — Well, let me quote the last paragraph of the last article in the series:

I’m going to miss our Model S. It wasn’t perfect, but it was like nothing else out there. Take heart, Tesla fans: Sometime in early 2015, we will be one of the first to buy a Model X.

Full article: “2013 Tesla Model S: It Sells Itself”

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-it-sells-itself.html

Of course, since you’re wearing your Tesla hater reality-distortion goggles, “Another Euro…”, I’m sure you can’t see why most Tesla owners love their cars.

The 2-year old VW I drive currently (bought new) has badly misaligned door trim and also front grille. The door trim even causes a whistle sound when driving fast.
My previous car (a Renault, also bought new) had the same issues with the door trim. And the dealer was horrible – sold me the car with 8-year old tyres and later did several horrible paint jobs on the car.
So, if some shorter things that he can scare me away from Tesla with “Relatively Poor”….

Another Euro point of view

Actually I wouldn’t be that much surprised that Skodas are a bit better assembled than VW’s. Also I don’t know where you come from but when I spent a few months in Texas many yers ago someone lend me a VW Scirocco and that car was indeed OK but not ultra well assembled like here. I don’t know where the US VW’s are assembled.

The Sportwagons are Mexico, but the problems I had included the German imported diesel engine/transmission. The exhaust was a riddle, from the start. The punchy DSG transmission was a box of chocolates.

It is actually a Skoda Octavia 🙂 I said VW because it is basically the same thing and most americans don’t know what Skoda is…

But I have another story about BMW.
A family member of mine recently got rid of a 4-year old BMW (bought new). It squeeked and rattled all over after four years. And the BMW dealer refused to fix many of the issues the car had. And on top of that, the dealer managed to destroy the engine by doing a sloppy timing chain change. And after that he refused to fix the car. My relative had to involve lawyers and to contact BMW Germany directly to get his car fixed.
Now he derives a Toyota and would probably never buy a BMW again…

Just the fact that Tesla does not use dealers is enough for me to give mr. Musk my money 🙂

This “Tesla build quality is below average” bulls***works only on people that have no idea what the “average quality” nowadays is.

Ask “how much investments does this analyst have in Oil companies and whether he is working for any investment management company”.

Day in, day out, we see a barrage of criticism of Tesla despite it growing by leaps and bounds.

They are manually testing the car down to a micrometer precision and so it will be a perfect car.

A lofty 91,000 plugins (including buses & trucks) were sold in China in 2017-10.

If we presume 70,000 of these are private vehicles, then the 2017-10 worldwide sales has already crossed 100,000 mark.

I hope our analyst reads all these things and be aware that future is going electric.

Lol analyst are here to make disruptions and panic on the market whatever it takes. Their work is only to trigger big moves on the market. They dont care about reality, they want to create ther reality. Even Tim Cook give a s#it to what they say :))))

Another Euro point of view

To the ones here writing “I don’t mind the poor fit & finish and Tesla usual little reliability issues”.

The problem not only lies with the customers but with the fact it cost and arm and a ball to Tesla to fix those “little issues”.

When Björn Model X is diagnosed during 2 weeks at a service center to try to understand why it left him stranded in the middle of the night do you think it costs Tesla nothing ?
When finally out of being not able to pinpoint the cause of the failure they replace the 90 Kwh battery of that car, are batteries for free at Tesla ?
That is part of the many reasons why Tesla post huge losses every quarter. They need to fix that BEFORE becoming a (semi) mass market car maker.

“That is part of the many reasons why Tesla post huge losses every quarter.”

And you claim not to be a Tesla basher, dude? Seriously, how many years have we been seeing this exact same B.S. from long-term Tesla short-sellers serially posting anti-Tesla FUD?

Technically what you say is true; in-warranty service and repair costs are part of every auto maker’s expenses, including Tesla’s.

But the reason why Tesla continues to have higher expenses than earnings in most quarters is because of the capital spending it’s doing to ramp up company growth far faster than any other major auto maker. Not because of the relatively trivial amount spent on warranty service and repairs.

That’s not the ONLY reason…

I’ve recently had the opportunity to first hand inspect the exterior, interior & and take a short drive in a Model 3… It being an early production Model 3, I was somewhat expecting to observe some of what Bernstein analyst Toni Sacconaghi described in the above OP Article… that fit-n-finish would be lacking. Instead I was surprised by the very high quality of the fit-n-finish. No panel alignment issues… interior was high quality… a stark execution of interior design minimalism that I very much like but I can understand how luxury traditionalist can interpret it as lacking luxury bling appointments. It’s no secret that both Model S & Model X had early production panel alignment & interior for-n-finish issues that have largely been resolved over time. It seemed to me that the Model 3 I inspected had non of that… it was very refined. I can’t figure how analyst Sacconaghi observed what he did other than if the two Model 3 they saw were earlier variants than the Model 3 I inspected; if so, then that was a Tesla fail… those analyst should have had the latest Model 3 variants to inspect. Also worth taking into consideration, Bernstein analyst Toni… Read more »

Nailed it.

Seems like a fairly balanced assessment of Tesla’s financials, to me.
I’m reminded of famous economic collapses in history, from the South Sea bubble to Poseidon Nickel to Bernie Madoff’s pyramid scheme and many others.
Tesla seems to be walking a financial tightrope- I hope it doesn’t fall off. All well & good to have great faith & confidence but is it justified?
M3 will be the proof, either way; if Tesla’s balance sheet is still not showing a healthy profit within 2 years things will be bleak indeed.

IF any serious fault/flaw is found after say, 100,000 sales, the financial s*** will really hit the fan & investor faith may evaporate.

‪Same Wall St analyst that has not once wrote a favorable opinion of Tesla. Same guy that has knocked Apple constantly. He’s “paid” to be the doubting Thomas so why would we expect a fair shake/analysis? Although many early versions of S, X have are admitted by Tesla but have been corrected. I have seen the same from EVERY mfg. That’s why analysts say never purchase first year new models. I personally have not seen or experienced the S or X fit/finish issues described and I trust Tesla will manage any 3 issues even more quickly than S or X.

The issue with bad fit and finish is that it opens the question to the buyer about what unseen mechanical assembly issues there might be as well.

Not when it comes from a Wall Street short.

Amazing how many companies with short on Tesla try to wag the dog with negative articles and reviews. I guess in that way it not unlike political news.

Why is Tesla holding a closed, investor only showing of a Model 3 when tons of reservation holders would kill to see a 3 inside and out?

Another Euro point of view

Let me guess…perhaps because Tesla needs the financial markets to open the “fresh cash” tap once again ?

Well, hummm, I think you answered your question as well as the many others here regarding why Tesla would ship ‘poor fit and finish vehicles’ period – even to ‘celebrity owners’?

The answer obviously is that is all they have. If they had anything better, they would have showcased that.

bro1999 asked:

“Why is Tesla holding a closed, investor only showing of a Model 3 when tons of reservation holders would kill to see a 3 inside and out?”

Because Tesla hating trolls like you are all too eager to latch onto even the most extreme outlier of a negative comment about Tesla, and repeat it all over the internet as if it was representative instead of an extreme outlier.

@bro1999 said: “Why is Tesla holding a closed, investor only showing of a Model 3 when tons of reservation holders would kill to see a 3 inside and out?”
———

Because that is what is normally done with analyst showing of a new product line… and because there is no practical way to have a first hand showing of the Model to 500k+ paid reservation holders. The Model 3 will soon be available at Tesla Stores for show.

As I wait for the Model 3 for possibly the next 5-6 months, I prefer the negative reviews and appreciate if the company actively seek to fix the flaws before then. Knowledgeable drivers are already aware of the Model 3 superior traits.

How many people you meet who “bought a lemon”? There is even a lemon law in most places because of it. People are passionate about Tesla, it is a young company some people want to see fail and others want to see succeed, so of course there is a lot more comment about it than other companies. If VW actually started to make their ID brand of vehicles then I expect you would see a lot of commentary about that as well because it would be something completely new from them and therefore under the spotlight. If you want to crap on about fit and finish, then at least do what DeMuro did in his video and show the issue you are taking about. Just saying there is huge fit and finish problems, what the hell does that mean anyway? Nothing unless you describe it. I’ve seen plenty articles taking about panel gap, Ok get a micrometer and measure the gap on different vehicles. Just walking down the street it looks to me that they are all spaced about the same, and cars with a bonnet like Model 3 all seem to have about the same look to them, some… Read more »

I think many choose a car with the latest in modern tech and innovation (before even including EV) over a car that has almost perfect fit and finish but with older/standard car tech.

Another Euro point of view

It depends what “many” represent as market share. The family guy waking up in the early hours on a cold rainy day to do his daily commute to his job that barely covers his mortgage and monthly fixed costs could not care less. He just wants a car that “do the job”. Now the single millennium guy that has his surplus spare time issue that just got fixed by the fact that he needs to go through all the gadgets of his new car, for him indeed, it is an excellent deal.

Just who makes these mythical cars which have absolutely perfect fit and finish?

Walk through any parking lot, anywhere, and look closely at every car you pass. Is there a single one that does not have 1mm-2mmm mis-alignments between body panels and trim?

If an analyst “dings” Tesla for having the same lack of absolute perfection in fit-and-finish as every other car made**, then the only reasonable conclusion is the analyst is working for a financial company that is currently dumping Tesla stock.

**With the possible exception of very high-end, partially hand-built cars like a Rolls-Royce or a Ferrari.

OMG! It’s a tiny panel misalignment in a Toyota!

OMG! It’s a tiny panel misalignment in a Mercedes-Benz!

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w205/571266-taillight-bumper-alignment-responses.html

Are you showing panel misalignment on a 25 year old Toyota Celica All trac Turbo? The horror! sarcasm.

Thanks for agreeing with my point.

OMG! It’s a tiny panel misalignment in a BMW!

https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/bmw/i3/2014/lt/2014_bmw_i3_det_lt_428151_717.jpg

OMG! It’s a tiny trim misalignment in a Honda!

http://www.civicx.com/attachments/image-jpeg.17049/

Another Euro point of view

Yes PP, but the big difference is that those car makers make profits selling those cars. If a car costing 100 to be manufactured and sold 80 still has misalignment’s it may mean that this company should make something else than cars. Also I would like to point out that the problem with Tesla is the proportion of cars having such issues. Almost one out of 3 if I got it well.

Are you actually suggesting Tesla isn’t selling its cars for more than it costs to produce them? Reality check: Tesla’s gross profit margin is comfortably larger than the industry norm.

I’m sorry you can’t understand the difference between “Not able to make money selling cars” and “Choosing to spend more money on ramping up production than they are making by selling cars.” Fortunately, most people are capable of understanding that difference. But then, most people are not serial Tesla bashers pretending to be Tesla supporters.

Another Euro point of view
PP, there are no accounting rules in US GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles) that imposes what cost you have to include and what cost you don’t need to include in gross margin calculation. For example almost all car makers in the US uses dealers for distribution. Meaning they have very little distribution costs to bear. Tesla on the contrary bears huge distribution costs that arguably should be included in the gross margin or at least makes gross margin meaningless in a comparison with a competitor. Another example, Tesla does not include R&D expenses in its gross margin calculation. Indeed why not ? Tesla is a young company that has huge R&D costs so there is case for not including those costs that concerns more the future production than actual production. The problem comes when you pretty much know those gross margin figures are meaningless and can’t be compared with the rest of the industry but you nevertheless boast those funnily calculated profit margins in order to attract retail investors money (as even large institutional investors depends on their clients opinions for their investing strategy). This is exactly what Elon Musk does, acting like this means that you are rather flexible… Read more »
“The shorts do indeed have an agenda but the information they disclose, although obviously exaggerated in their supposed effects in order to prove their points is factually correct if you give yourself the time to read Tesla reports (10k). You decided for yourself that all this are lies because of the shorts agenda.” No. Since I’m not a “financial guy”, I don’t have the depth of understanding to follow the deeper financial arguments. My conclusion that it’s all lies comes from more obvious, long-term external evidence. This situation reminds me a lot of that apocryphal tale of the aeronautics engineer who studied the aerodynamics of the honeybee, and concluded — based on his equations — that they couldn’t possibly fly. Yet the honeybees ignored him, and kept right on flying along! Similarly, for years there has been a constant drumbeat from Tesla stock shorters and FUDsters, claims that Tesla’s finances are a house of cards, destined to collapse any day now. There is even an oft-repeated deeper conspiracy theory that all of Tesla’s factories and its production of cars are somehow nothing but a sort of Potemkin Village; that Tesla is only pretending to make and sell very popular, very… Read more »

Freaking Take Your Meds, Android simma’ Down now, or go invite Dr. Nasser to your cave.
The Model S & X sales are flatlining at best and Model s dropping in the US YoY. There is No More Growth Period. Intl sales to Real end users are Not Reported by TSLA so that can claim Non-US growth that Makes Zero sense given Joke of Mkt share in china of 16K in 2016. It’s all on the model s which is hitting Major problems so Watch for even more Severe Voodoo math smokescreen misdirection to Come soon. But you BLIND Mice like the Pusher and Nanny Nix vomit our The Koolaid for the poorly educated Nonstop.

Another Euro point of view
Indeed PP, as long as financial markets are open to Tesla (and there is so far no signs that this is not the case) Tesla can continue this growth and as you wrote the long term evidence is against the shorts doom & gloom predictions. Now my personal opinion regarding all this is that what the “reasonable shorts” write is factually correct (I can verify the numbers as reported by Tesla) but that the effect of those on Tesla business is far from obvious as is investors are willing a finance the construction of a runway long enough for Tesla to take off, we could imagine a Tesla of the future much better at keeping cost under control and improving its planning/manufacturing skills. So it is a situation where both sides have good arguments and both sides are biased (Tesla fans seeing it all with pink glasses and shorts all doom and gloom). Now for the growth story, BYD was incorporated in 2003 like Tesla. Produces 4 times as many cars as Tesla AND reports profits. But again, I am not going to make same mistake than Tesla fans comparing apples and oranges (the gross margin example above) so won’t… Read more »

I have no doubt that traditional manufacturer do have better finish.
They have to in order to hide their customer in a confort zone where they can’t feel the poison spreading engine.
I’m not sure I even make that up.

300+ effin’ mile car that quick charges at 150 effin’ miles in half an hour, 0-60 in the low 5’s.

All of this for around the same inflation-adjusted price as a base 2011 Volt (CPI adjusted price of ~$47,750 in 2017 dollars).

And some folks are whining about some trim not lining up the the first few hundred cars? Too much body gap on early units? Talk about your first world problems!!

Some people have clearly lost sight of the goal posts.

This car will on the range of a Civic. I’m pretty sure it will have a better finish than the best Civic model. This id all speculation. If there is anything true on this, what are they comparing with?

Same story with Model S in 2012, and look where is Tesla today.

That is not good news… I want them to succeed, but in the long run with all the German EVs in the pipeline, Tesla really needs to up its quality game. Even my 2017 Model S had fit and finish issues, they fixed them but still it’s disappointing to discover on a brand new car.