Porsche Next-Gen Batteries Set To Provide Huge Electric Range

MAR 12 2019 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 35

It appears Porsche has a trick up its sleeve.

We hear about potential battery breakthroughs often, but most don’t amount to anything tangible right away. This is not to say that the breakthroughs aren’t possible. Rather, it’s going to take time before automakers can appropriately implement them. Porsche CEO Oliver Blume revealed in a recent interview that the company has next-gen batteries already set for next year. These new batteries will eventually make their way into Porsche’s upcoming plug-in electric vehicles.

The CEO shared (via Electrek):

The next generation of batteries will come in 2020, and will bring an increase in the ampere hours of our battery cells from 37 to 47. This will permit us to achieve larger ranges, which we will gradually introduce into our products.

While Blume did say that the new battery cells will go into Porsche vehicles as soon as next year, the automaker is putting greater effort into getting its upcoming Taycan launched first. The automaker already has some 20,000 people interested in the vehicle. It announced not long ago that due to the high demand, it will increase production pursuits.

It’s important to note that 20,000 people did not pre-order the Taycan, since pre-orders aren’t yet available. But, this total number is an indicator of those who have said they are interested in the all-electric Porsche sports car and reportedly placed a deposit. Blume said:

This is a significantly higher figure than we expected: we usually only see ordering peaks after the first driving reports are available, when the vehicle is presented, and when customers have been able to sit in the car in real life.

According to Electrek, the CEO noted that the company may try to get customers into a temporary Panamera Plug-In Hybrid if they have to wait too long for their Taycan to arrive. He explained:

If there are waiting times, we might take the opportunity to gently introduce customers to the Taycan; so for example, we could make a Panamera plug-in hybrid temporarily available to customers before they receive a Taycan. But right now we’re awaiting the start of production before we talk about specific delivery times.

Porsche has big plans for a whole range of  plug ins in the coming years. If it intends to get new, longer-rage battery cells into the Taycan, it only makes sense that all subsequent vehicles will also get some form of next-gen batteries. The Taycan is due to launch in September as a 2020 model.

Source: Electrek

Categories: Battery Tech, Porsche

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35 Comments on "Porsche Next-Gen Batteries Set To Provide Huge Electric Range"

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We have a next generation of batteries, maybe next year, but let’s talk about the Taycan which, cough cough, doesn’t actually have 20K pre-orders because there’s no such thing as pre-orders but some people said they’re interested in the car.

Nope, it’s reservations and they are a refundable €2,500. I have one and I also still have just converted my €1000 Model 3 reservation, also refundable and not a pre order, into an order.

Nope, its not all reservations. It is is reservations plus hand raisers that equal 20k.

Just read the article:

But, this total number is an indicator of those who have said they are interested in the all-electric Porsche sports car and reportedly placed a deposit.

The 20k are the people that placed the deposit.

There is such a thing as pre-orders, it is pretty common when new model or model years are about to get released. But a pre-order is a binding order withing set limits which will automatically be converted into a real order as soon as that is possible.

The term pre-order is extremely misused these days though when zero commitment reservations, with or without paying a (refundable) reservation fee, too often being called orders or pre-orders when they are no such thing.

30% increase in Ah sounds impressive but not to the extend the weight and size of the cells increases. Too bad (but probably not accidental) that Porsche doesn’t have info on actual energy density increase.

The assumption is that it will have the same volume, so it’s unlikely that the weight has increased significantly. I think the bigger trade off is that it could potentially reduce the power density, which would result in a reduced charging rate (typically). However, that lower C rate might be mostly offset by the increased overall energy. E.g., a 90 kWh pack might be able to support a 3.5 C charging rate while a 110 kWh pack might only be able to support a 2.5 C charging rate. In either case, they will both be able to charge at ~300 kW.

It’s your assumption it will have the same volume and that weight won’t increase significantly. Porsche claims nothing of the sort. We’ll see.

The 37Ah cell is likely low energy density so they can hit their fasr charge times. The 47Ah cell will increase range but probably reduce fast charge speed.

Fast charge times are achieved by not charging fully. The cell capacity has nothing to do with it, except that now that same % SOC takes you farther.

Cells that are less energy dense can often be charged faster. There is a trade off between energy density and power density. Using a larger energy pack (high kWh) will often lead to more power or ability to charge more miles per minute, but you can also use cells that accept a higher charge current, and that will likely require trading energy density for power density. The pack will be lower kWh (less range).

Tesla uses physically larger packs to get faster charging and more power (larger versions of PxxD have more power than smaller versions), where VAG seems to be putting lower energy density cells but higher power density cells to get faster charging and more power delivery, but the trade off is less range. I think Tesla has the smarter design, but VAG method might give flatter charging curves, which might appeal to people (faster charging to 100%, not more miles per minute charge). Tesla is best driven in the low SoC range for long distances, but e-Tron charges to 100% fast enough (how people drive gas cars, filling completely).

I made a chart of this by looking at data available from users, you can see how flat charging of e-Tron will likely reach 100% first (I don’t have time to 100% on the graph unfortunately), but Tesla SC V3 will be much faster to 50 or 60%. Given people’s tendency to want to charge fully, the VW makes more sense, but the Tesla is actually faster here.

This graph also shows why I call 50 kW charging slow, Tesla SC V2 is slowest I would tolerate for long distance travel (personally).

chart: https://i0.wp.com/carswithplugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ChargeChart.png?w=910&ssl=1

link: https://carswithplugs.com/2019/03/10/charging-less-is-more/

(I can’t seem to embed image, does that not work?)

Keyword: often.

Viking79 is right, look at https://liionwholesale.com/ to see the range of power density vs discharge/charging rate available out there.

That’s not a universal law.

Then go find me a cell that does 10C charge rates and is 300 wh/kg. You can do 10C or 300 wh/kg but not both.

Pikes Peak IDR was rumored ~600HP and 43KWh. -That’s about a 10C. I think Jason Hughes said Tesla won’t go much past 5C, to be conservative.

All the racings batteries, Formula E, shorter range Euro BEVs and even as far back as Porsche’s first PHEVs had power dense batteries, as indicated by both range and acceleration.

There was an interesting interview on FullyCharged about battery development. The interviewee was saying that the full development time for a battery technology is 3-5 years. Assuming this is correct, all the major producers would have a decent idea where their available technology will be at in two to three years. You can kind of see how if you are actually selling EVs now (Tesla, Nissan, GM), you don’t want to under-cut your current sales by admitting that there will be better range just around the corner. If you don’t have anything to sell, you want to convince people to wait for their car when it comes out.

Some of the bravado from Porsche should not be Taycan seriously. I will believe it when they can sell it, not say it.

The 37 to 47 Ah comments refer to their PHEVs, not BEVs like Taycan.

Thanks. I was wondering about where the 37 Ah came from. IIRC, the Taycan’s currently-planned pack is 90 kWh with 436 cells in a 218S2P configuration and around 800 VDC nominal volts, which works out to 112 Ah at the pack level and and 56 Ah per cell.

436 cells? Not 432 cells like Audi E-Tron?

Porsche is about to make their first BEV for delivery in 2020 so that will count as first generation battery but next generation sound better I guess.

They’ve had the Panamera and Cayenne PHEVs for several years now, so ‘next generation’.

So…we are bringing Taycan to market, but just after that we will have 30% better batteries..???
Isn’t this just building an excuse to announce a delayed Taycan production (to take advantage of these better batteries) in 2020?

Blume was talking about their PHEV batteries. Nothing to do with Taycan.

Some of us recognize we’re in a class room discussion, about energy versus power. Others probably are falling for the idea, that soon there will be a Taycan (or a decent 20KWh PHEV) at their local dealer. LOL. The thing with PHEV, is they won’t get much of a power boost, if they add more KWh and swap for energy density. Past 15-20KWh, unless its over 5k pounds, it may be better to go with energy density (& ~5x 20KW=134HP adequate electric mode).

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

What no meaningful specs like…

Wh/kg?
Max C rate charge?
Max C rate discharge?
Form factor size/dimensions?
Cycle life at DOD 80%
Cycle life at DOD 90%
Chem makeup????

ANYBODY can throw another cell in parallel or increase volume size to gain capacity and be the town crier screaming about “Advancement”.

Not everyone is the CEO of Porsche.

So… let me get this straight… Buy this years model cause next years is gonna be way better… oops… this press release should have been released six months AFTER the debut and sales of the Taycan… otherwise the buyers are really being TAKEN for a ride. Love my Tesla Model X!

I am about || close to peeing myself. Never thought I’d be excited about a Porsche.

This tech is advancing so fast.

The vaporware tech is indeed advancing so fast. Tomorrow it will advance even more, because their press release says so

Want to see VW in Formula E! That will go a long long way in building consumer demand !

Talk is cheap,,just bring it and show us what you got

Don’t really know what the actual taycan range is as it’s not available , only press realease info.
Possible S and X 2170 battery update coming ( possible, maybe, perhaps to counter this new battery tech from Porsche and the like????)
I’m thinking 400 miles plus with new S and X update and well over 700miles with the roadster 2 if not over 800 as it’s an ice killer .
Extra total gasoline smackdown yeha baby.