Nissan Says it Has 13,000 Pre-Orders For New LEAF In U.S.

JAN 18 2018 BY MARK KANE 110

Nissan LEAF sales in U.S. – December 2017

Nissan LEAF sales in U.S. peaked at 30,200 in 2014 and decreased the following three years as the move from the original 24 kWh battery to 30 kWh battery was just too small to fulfill expectations of the next generation and longer range.

2018 Nissan LEAF

However, introduction of the 2018 Nissan LEAF in the U.S. should mark a turning point/

According to Engadget, Nissan revealed that consumers put more than 13,000 pre-orders in for the new LEAF in the U.S.

For comparison, in Europe, more than 10,000 were ordered as of mid-December.

That 13,000-figure alone would bring back growth of sales.

In a year or so, LEAF will get some reinforcement in form of the e-Plus model with 50% more battery capacity and more power. Range is expected to be 225 miles and its price should be in the $35,000 territory. So, hopefully new sales record is around the corner.

In total, nearly 115,000 LEAFs were sold cumulatively in U.S. since its debut in late 2010:

Nissan LEAF sales in U.S. – December 2017

Source: Engadget

Categories: Nissan

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110 Comments on "Nissan Says it Has 13,000 Pre-Orders For New LEAF In U.S."

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Production of the Nissan Leaf in the US has already started.

How many Nissan Leafs will be produced in the US in 2018?

It will easily outsell the Bolt this year. There are tens of thousands of loyal Leaf owners out there looking at this car.

I’m not convinced that’s a sure thing. The Leaf has less rang and less performance than the Bolt. And GM or dealers could start offering incentives to move more Bolts so the prices could be very similar.

Even if they wanted to build more than say 25k Bolts next year they wouldn’t. The Leaf will pull ahead of the Bolt, but not by a huge margin, until the longer range one comes out.
So maybe 28k Leafs. Just a guess.

All true points. However, the Leaf just feels bigger, and is a lot less “economy” feeling.

The Bolt is still a weirdmobile. The Leaf has more usable space and still works for the fast majority of people. It’s also cheaper.

When comparing a Bolt to a Leaf, you consider the Bolt a weirdmobile? And the Leaf roomier?

Time to get your prescription checked!

Globally the Leaf will outsell the Bolt.

But in the Bolt’s major markets (US, Canada, S Korea) the Bolt will outsell the Leaf in 2018.

“Globally the Leaf will outsell the Bolt.”

I don’t think there’s much doubt of that. Nissan has always sold the Leaf internationally, not just focusing on one market. And at least according to reports, GM is not planning on increasing production of the Bolt EV this year.

“it has less range and less performance than the Bolt”

And the Toyota Corolla has less performance than the Ford Mustang, yet it consistently outsells it year after year.

Range and performance aren’t the only things that sell cars. The only way we’ll actually know, is when the year is out and the tally is complete.

The Leaf is a more comfortable car and just overall more pleasant to drive. Nissan is going to sell a lot of these cars!

Leaf is cheaper and already has a reputation as being cheap. Plus, much broader base to draw from such as yours truly. Though I’m actually considering a Bolt, so there’s that.

There’s also quite a few Leaf owners that were burned by horribly fading batteries due to no TMS, and will have that in mind when considering the new Leaf.

If you not leasing, but actually buying the 2018 Leaf, the 8 year / 100k mile 70% battery degradation warranty is your only saving grace and bottom line. Better to lease the Leaf this year, and trade-in the 2018 for a 2019 LG Chem liquid cooled 60 kWh battery pack,at the end of the 2018 two year lease. If you are planning on Leasing for more than 30 months in California, you are eligible for the free $2.5k CVRP.

Is the liquid cooling confirmed? Did I miss an article!?

Under the table second generation Leaf specs:

https://pushevs.com/2017/12/29/nissan-sees-leafs-competition/

I had not seen this table. I had only heard that the new battery pack was from LG.

That’s even more reason for people to wait and buy the 2019 model!

Unless someone has a super short commute and lives in a perfect climate like California, don’t get the 2018!

Well actually it looks like that chart is just what pushevs expects the 60 kWh leaf to have. So it’s still a rumor as far as I can tell.

“Now let’s see the specs of the normal version Nissan Leaf and a preview of what is expected for the e-Plus version.”

They were the first to come out with the news about the 40kWh battery for the leaf, so not all their info is duff ?

They may be right and I hope so! I have talked to many dissapointed leaf drivers here in Texas.

I think all LG BEV packs to date have had a real BMS. But if I remember right, some LG packs for PHEVs did not.

So I hope Nissan and LG clarify soon! But if it will have a liquid BMS, they may wait to announce it. That way they do not hurt US sales of the 40 kWh model.

I don’t buy it. I have said all along they won’t have a liquid cooled TMS in the 2019 Leaf, which is logical, since Nissan keeps saying there is nothing wrong with their current battery cooling.

M3 - reserved -- Niro/Leaf 2.0/Outlander - TBD

but Nissan doesn’t own the battery packs anymore and they are farming it out.

So if LG wants to do it, nissan can just accept that as an explanation.

“Well actually it looks like that chart is just what pushevs expects the 60 kWh leaf to have.”

How disappointing! I thought that table was copied from an internal Nissan document. 🙁

Well, thank you for correcting my misunderstanding. Here’s hoping that turns out to be true, but then I expected Nissan to put a TMS into the 2018 Leaf, and they didn’t.

It will be around 18 months before the LG battery one will be available so it could be worth a 2 year lease in the right climate.

The Hyundai Kona will have the same battery and are taking pre-orders in South Korea already !

https://pushevs.com/2018/01/17/hyundai-starts-pre-orders-kona-electric/

Rumour has it that the 2019 e+ version will also have 100kw fast charging capability in addition to its 64kwh liquid cooled LG pack.

Not sure about the other 2019 trims, though.

Thanks for that detail. I regularly advise people about buying EVs and am glad to know that’s a difference with the new model.

Given a choice between the Bolt and the Leaf, I would go with the Leaf for some, and the Bolt for others. I feel like cargo space has to do more with the actual surface area of cargo area than the displaced volume of air, so I agree, the Leaf is roomier. Main reason for this is that the Bolt is able to get a higher volume capacity through height, but how many people are driving their cars with zero visibility out the rear window? And, cargo comes in odd shapes. I mean, nothing as oddly-shaped as the Prius Prime, but I hope you get my meaning.

I just moved in my Bolt to a new house. Folded down the seats.

It took a few trips obviously. My wife took smaller items and boxes in her Volt. But I was able to fit all of our large furniture (bookshelves, grandfather clock, recliner etc) in the Bolt. The only items that didnt fit were my mattress and my two couches.

I even managed to fit 6 dining room chairs in the back all at the same time. And still had room under the false floor and the passenger seat for small boxes!

And all the while, I had perfect visibility because of the 180 degree rear view mirror cam. 😉

Now obviously unless you move a lot this isn’t a regular benefit. But I couldn’t have done that in our Volt, or a leaf or model 3. Sometimes height is better.

I own a Leaf and getting a Model 3 (hopefully in March/April). The Leaf is a great car – but time to move to the future. Leaf 2.0 is just Leaf 1.0 with a different front/back end and a little bigger battery / motor.

I’m not sure they are that loyal. However price matters a lot and the range is probably acceptable for many so I believe they will sell well because of that.

The 2018s started arriving locally two days ago. I’m in In the Bay Area. Deliveries have undoubtedly started.

Anything North of 1,500 for January would be impressive.

Yeah, I’m one of them, I guess. still don’t have a final price, let alone a guess when the vehicles will be delivered.

I signed up for the lease extension – that will get me to mid-April. I checked with Nissan, there will be no month-to-month or additional extensions after the lease expiration. If the cars aren’t on the lots by then, I’m looking at going to a Bolt or stepping up to an S, because I don’t think my model 3 will be ready before I need the car.

If you tell Nissan that you’re waiting for the 2019 longer-range LEAF, they would likely extend.

This is great news for Nissan and the new Leaf. I wonder when we can expect to see deliveries begin?

Now. They are on lots in the US.

Where are these 2018 Leafs on lots in the US? I cannot find evidence of this anywhere. I am looking for one.

We’ve been trying to track inventory. The Sacramento dealership had one listed for some time, but it states NOT PRICED. Now, some other dealerships are showing the same information. However, a few just popped up with pricing listed. When we contacted the Sacramento dealership in December, we were told:

“Our first vehicles to arrive will hit the dealerships for those who pre-ordered their cars about 3rd week of Jan. More will follow and will be more available at most Dealerships mid to late Feb.”

This is great news for Nissan and the new Leaf. I wonder when we can expect to see deliveries begin?

That’s pretty good! Although some of those people will end up waiting for the 60 kWh version.

If I were getting a Leaf, I would pay extra to have the added range. 🙂

yes but at 35K why not just get a base Model 3 instead??

When will a base (totally stock) Tesla model 3 for $35k be available with the $7,500. Fed rebate and ready for pick up without waiting more than a duration of 10 working days?

There lies the rub!

Hmmm, I doubt the average new car buyer is so desperate to get a new car that he can’t wait a couple of weeks. Those who are that desperate probably are looking for a used car, not a new one.

At worst, someone shopping in that price range could rent a car for a couple of weeks. After all, a daily driver car is something you’re likely going to be living with on a daily basis for years.

So, the issue isn’t waiting for 10 working days. The issue with buying a TM3 is that you’ll have to wait for months to get it; possibly more than a year. Especially if you want a configuration which isn’t even being made yet.

I have picked cars right off the lot. I’ve waited a few days for the dealer to get the car ready, that’s all. So far they have always had the model and features I’m looking for.
Tesla might be different.

Never. It starts at $36200 for the black version.

“How many Nissan Leafs will be produced in the US in 2018?”

In between 40,000 and 50,000?

Nissan’s explicit target is 100K to 150K globally for 2018 (since the long-range version apparently won’t be sold before 2019, I assume it’s not included). Since that includes Europe, Japan and other Asian countries, I suspect the US target would be a bit lower, maybe 35K-40K .
It’ll be very interesting to see.

Probably closer to the 40 K number. Many knowledgeable buyers will wait until 2019 for the 200+ mi. range, along with a battery (LG Chem) that is road trip worthy/capable from multiple (2+) fast charging events, during longer drives in 80 thru 100+ degree ambient air temperatures.

yes but at 35K why not just get a base Model 3 instead?? Arguably a much nicer car and with the added bonus of tesla’s 100kw+ supercharging network!

Lots of reasons:
– form factor, many people prefer a hatchback over a sedan
– UI, many people also prefer a more normal speedo area, and certainly many prefer tactile feel of buttons
– better quality, known quantity with company that will be sticking around for years to come (Tesla still has potential to fail)

Form factor? Are you kidding me??

Do you have a special double question mark key on your keyboard? You end all questions the same way.

Actually the lack of utility of a sedan is the primary reason that we’re not getting a second Model 3 for me and only my wife is getting that car.

Some might like the whole enchilada, when it comes to the $7.5K federal rebate. Also, if you are not on a Tesla $1K deposit reservation list, you can obviously figure out that you absolutely will N0T GET the full Fed Rebate (should you qualify).

Quebec 100% EV asked:

“Form factor? Are you kidding me??”

Hmmm, just who is kidding here?

I’ve used sedans as daily drivers, and I’ve used hatchbacks as daily drivers. It’s hard to imagine that many people would actually prefer the sedan.

I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to predict that the Tesla Model Y is gonna outsell the Model 3.

Why would he be kidding? For me the Model 3 is a complete non-starter because it’s not a hatch. It’s trunk is small (and the frunk doesn’t help if you need to transport something large, like furniture), awkward to access and has unneccesary parts (hydraulics).

In most of the world, a household has only one car, so it has to do everything.
The Model 3 is a midsize, but has significantly less cargo room and flexibility than my ICE compact car — and this is even less excusable since it’s a BEV, which should be more space-efficient than an ICE car due to the skateboard design.

My worldwide guesstimate? Between 100,000 and 150,000 for 2018. i.e. somewhere between double and triple. Their production facilities (including batteries) have the necessary capacity already.

Interesting. I hadn’t realized sales tanked so badly in 2015 (to far less than half of 2014 on average!)

That makes it even more puzzling they didn’t intro the 40kWh model two years ago — it’s after all an update, not a redesign — esp. given that they still aren’t selling the long-range 200mi+ version.

Here is the cliff notes version (my recollection)… Nissan had started making noise about doing 48 kWh packs (same form factor but double density as the 24 kWh packs) in late 2011, early 2012. It was supposed to debut in the Infiniti EV which would be a rear wheel drive with double the power of the LEAF. Release date was intended to be 2015 MY starting in early 2014. I was told by a Nissan exec, you will get your Infiniti before you LEAF lease is up, when I told him I was considering a Tesla next. Then early summer 2012, Leaf batteries started falling apart in the heat of the southwest; SoCal, Arizona and Texas primarily. All Nissan battery R&D immediately had to stop to fix the problem. Which is what became the “lizard pack”, because Nissan was dead set on not using a TMS to save cost since LEAF was mass market. At the same time Renault (who was using Nissan designed cells to this point) was fed up and went with LG for battery supply. The Alliance management saw that LG was beating the internal R&D designed batteries on cost and energy density. So Nissan decided to… Read more »

2018 Leaf production started with great fanfare on Dec 4th in the US. Meanwhile over 6 weeks later we are still waiting to see the first deliveries. Nissan probably has the plant capacity to fill the 13,000 pre-orders in a couple of months but my bet is that it will take all year because they don’t really want to sell that many Leafs. We’ll see.

I encourage everyone to pass on the Leaf, don’t give Nissan a dime of your hard earned money. They screwed folks like me with the 1st Gen Leaf, offering no solutions and no upgrades for battery replacement on their garbage product. The Bolt has better range and better performance for the price, do yourself a favor and don’t get screwed like I did.

Once you remove ignorance, all that’s left is stupidity. Don’t be stupid..

So what your saying is that you made a bad choice and bought instead of leasing an EV with no TMS back when everyone said the batteries would be an issue.

Perhaps you should have,leased and saved yourself the hassle!!!

Leaf and Lease rhyme for a REASON.

With the new crop of EVs coming to market in the next 12 months, WHY BUY an EV without any TMS that protects the battery, which is by far the most expensive single component of the vehicle,

I wouldn’t consider buying right now, but 5 years ago with no other new or used options it was a different story.

Right. Castigating someone for buying (as opposed to leasing) a Leaf back when it was literally the only street-legal, mass-produced BEV sold in first-world countries, is not merely uninformed, it’s downright obnoxious.

But now, for new car buyers, there are better choices.

Thanks Pushmi. Seems like aside from folks like yourself, the 1st Gen Leaf owners are kicked to the curb by not only Nissan but everyone else who’s never had to experience the ridiculous battery degradation issue of the 1st Gen Leaf.

At the time I bought my 2012 Leaf there wasn’t a whole lot of warnings about the battery issue on the street yet. Obviously with only 1 year of production the verdict was still out.

Sheesh! What’s with everyone on this forum letting Nissan off the hook??

The EV revolution isn’t going to progress by EV advocates picking just one or two PEVs out of the market and arguing that nobody should buy (or lease) any other. The EV revolution is going to progress by the market getting more PEVs for buyers to choose from.

So let me play Devil’s Advocate here: If someone chooses to lease a Leaf, and it will suit their needs, then why not?

Sure, I keep hoping that Nissan will finally put an active thermal management system (TMS) into the Leaf, or start selling a new BEV with a TMS. But in the meantime, Nissan seems to be having some success by aiming at the bottom end of the market.

It’s rather pointless to argue with success, innit? Nissan doesn’t have to please you or me. They just have to please enough car buyers (or lessees) to make a profit on the Leaf.

Pushmi- while I agree that Nissan doesn’t owe me anything regarding my 1st Gen Leaf, at the same time I don’t owe anything to Nissan regarding sharing how they treat their customers. And if I can help inform and enlighten potential buyers with information (which was unavailable to me 5 years ago) that may save them from experiencing my issue(s), then it’s worth it in my opinion.

If there were the same lack of options today as 5 years ago, I’d say the 2nd Gen Leaf is pretty attractive. But given Nissan’s track record, I’d recommend looking HARD at available present, upcoming, and even used options over pulling the trigger on yet another untested Nissan product.

It sounds like you had a bad experience but the expecting of a battery upgrade seems unreasonable, if you were expecting them to provide larger capacity batteries. I wouldn’t expect any manufacturer to offer upgrade a past model to have the features of a new model unless it directly involved life and safety. It would be a great marketing strategy, but one can’t expect them to do that when they never state they would when they sold the car.

Oh, you mean battery upgrades like Tesla offers? (60kWh to 75kWh) It’s not asking too much from a manufacturer to do a solid for the early adopters who helped them with their leading EV sales with the Leaf. I’m not asking for a free handout, how about allowing me to BUY (with my money, not theirs) a longer range battery than the garbage in the 1st gen. Folks like you act like I’m asking for free handouts. I’m simply asking for a compromise for the 5 year old worthless car I’m stuck with.

If you consider that unreasonable, don’t even bother responding.

That is unreasonable. But aside from that, you sure are one emotional SOB.

Lawrence, telling it like it is! I don’t think this is a case of letting Nissan off the hook but I think many of us expected such issues would be there so we bought, or leased accordingly. Even back with the run of the mill Prius the concern was that the batteries would degrade but largely they didn’t. Soft use and cycle management is likely why not. The Leaf always seemed like they tried to get too much out of it while not putting enough in to it. I mean they didn’t even put a fan in it to expel hot air right!?!?!?!? Ya know what else was air cooled, and prone to fires BTW, VW bugs/buses. Unsurprisingly while cheaper to manufacture they had more problem than liquid cooled cars. Even today I don’t know if I would buy an EV, regardless of the manufacturer and I’ve got about 6 months to figure that out. They are improving just too darn quick and in 3 years time there will be a ton more and significantly better options. Similarly the same can be said back in 2012. A lot of things were on the horizon so why lock yourself in to… Read more »

Hahaha! ‘Unreasonable??’ For wanting Nissan to treat it’s customers better?

I’m simply telling people on this forum to spend your money better now that there’s WAY better options than in 2012, and especially considering the company (Nissan) that didn’t have thermal management back then STILL does not. And didn’t (in my emotional SOB opinion) do right for their 1st Gen Leaf customers.

Tesla isn’t really upgrading your battery. They just put a 75kWh battery in a 60kWh car and “unlock” it. They can do this because it’s easier for them to put a 75kWh battery in every car given the cars price point instead of having a specific 60kWh part on hand. They can’t do this on the Model 3 or Nissan with the Leaf or GM with the Bolt because the low price of the car won’t support the additional cost.

If Tesla had the battery degradation issues that Nissan has experienced, I Guaran-Hong-Kong-Tee that they would have viable solutions. As it is now, buying a battery that can be ‘expanded’ or ‘unlocked’ in the future IS a form of battery upgrade.

John said:

“Oh, you mean battery upgrades like Tesla offers? (60kWh to 75kWh) It’s not asking too much from a manufacturer to do a solid for the early adopters who helped them with their leading EV sales with the Leaf.

“If you consider that unreasonable, don’t even bother responding.”

It’s absolutely unreasonable. Auto makers — even Tesla Motors/Tesla Inc. — are in business to make money, not to give away things to early customers just because they were early customers.

Tesla marketed the lower-priced, electronically limited Model S75 as a “Model S60” as a marketing ploy, because demand for the Model S was softening, not as a “reward” for some segment of its customers.

Expectations based on wishful thinking aren’t going to help you live in the real world. They’re just going to make you frustrated.

Pushmi- I think you miss my point a little, I’m not asking for a free handout simply because. My issue is the fact that Nissan sold a product that did NOT perform. Almost all of my personal battery degradation occurred at around the 56k mile mark, and dropped severely without much of a curve. Magically, it happened right after the period for lizard battery warranty replacement limits. I’m not asking for a new free battery, I’m simply looking for Nissan to allow me to BUY a new, larger battery and extend the life of my very young car. (did I mention ‘Buy?’). No handouts, just an option to replace something that didn’t really work with something a little better. Nissan’s only option is for me to replace the broken, unreliable product with another identical broken, unreliable product. At least with a longer range battery replacement I’d be able to delay the inevitably quick battery degradation a little bit longer this time. Or, I can simply opt to have my near worthless 5 year old car crushed and dumped in a landfill. Which isn’t my preference, but may end up being my only option.

I read recently that Nissan offered a battery upgrade for Leaf’s models 2013-2015. Those cars could use the 30KW battery that they offer now on 2016-17 models, but the catch is the $7000 price for the new battery pack and you have to give them the old battery back. I thought that it wasn’t a good deal considering that now you can buy a used 2016 model with the 30KW battery for around $16,000 and get some money for the old Leaf in trade in exchange.

Have you listened to the statements made around 2011 by Nissan about how reliable the batteries would be? Almost no one would have notable loss before 70,000 miles.
William and I were both stupid enough to believe what Nissan spokesmen said. It sounds like we both have learned from our mistake.
Fool me once…

Thanks Ron. Everyone else here thinks it’s the early adopter’s faults, Nissan gets a free pass.

@John,

I had a similar experience with my 12 Leaf, which I’ve described here many times. I leased it, however, because of my own fears about the battery, which turned out to be true.

After 3 years and 26k miles, my battery lost 15% capacity and winter driving range (actual) went as low as 36 miles. The Nissan dealer told me this was normal.

It’ll be interesting to see how many reservations convert. They opened a no deposit reservation and by not providing an ambiguous “early 2018 delivery date”, no lease pricing, and then announcing a long range/TMS version late into the reservation process.

Buyers my find that the timeline won’t work, the lease pricing is way higher than they expected, or that they’ll wait for the longer range one. Many could chose not to convert their reservations without penalty or notifying Nissan of their change in intent.

Pre-orders? That term is a bit of a joke in this case.

My Leaf “pre-order” consisted of adding my name to a list of interested people who wish to be contacted when the 18 model arrives.

Without money attached to these “pre-orders”, I wouldn’t put much stock in that figure.

I do have interest in the car, but I also have a Model 3 reservation and am impressed with the Bolt. None of them are guaranteed to get my money.

A joke as well as they stated that their reservation doesn’t guarantee delivery of a car within any timeframe. Should someone extend their current lease or not to get their reserved car? They won’t know since no timeframe is given for delivery.

As stated:
“Nissan cannot guarantee delivery of a 2018 Nissan LEAF by any specific date.“

Could you get a “certain” delivery date on a TM3?

First of all Tesla is a complete cluster**** so that’s a very low bar. In my years of buying a car (ten cars to date), when I reserved, I knew when I would get it, especially as we got closer to delivery date.

I was considering a Leaf and had reserved it online on the first day just in case I wanted it.

The dealer that I reserved through says that they have absolutely no idea of it’s arriving this week or in three months. They have ones coming in, but the color and options are provided at random to various dealerships.

In other words, my configuration that I reserved may end up available at another dealership on the lot for general purchase without a reservation, where I would have to go to go haggle and buy it.

So what’s the point of making a reservation?

Murrysville:

Every one of your comments reflects my own situation.

My current 4 year Leaf lease ends in April.
Waiting for 4WD model 3 (August-October. Yeah! Right!).

Mixed feelings about all current EV offerings.

What to do? What to do?

And I got a “Thank you for your 2018 Leaf reservation” message from putting my name on a test drive list.

doesnt anyone care about the crash tests of this car. its a coffin on wheels. putting range ahead of common sense. clouds vision

But you bought one anyhow.

“doesnt anyone care about the crash tests of this car. its a coffin on wheels.”

It’s rather unlikely that any street-legal car sold in first-world countries is that unsafe. It’s extremely unlikely that a car could be sold for as many years as the Leaf without anyone noticing it’s exceptionally unsafe compared to other cars.

It’s much more likely that you’ve got an axe to grind against Nissan, and in fact you’ve already exposed that “axe” in comments above.

John: You made my day with the comment about the Leaf ” its a coffin on wheels”. I wanted to try the Leaf since 2012 but somehow I always thought that the car wasn’t reliable or strong enough to protect you on an accident. Also I didn’t buy it after all these years simply because of the front of the car that looks like a fish face or some marine creature. Now with the new 2018 model looks I am considering to get one but the battery problem in hot weather is another issue. So I decided to wait for the 2019 model and see what happens.

Could they be able to produce more than 40/50k in 2018 in the US?, anyone knows the installed capacity?. If they already have 13k pre-orders 40/50k sales in 6 months is doable. Mostly because the car looks really cool and feels great. Also if some people are waiting for the bigger battery they could still lease the one available now (24m/lease). Once people see them in the street or take rides with friends they will rush to buy them. It might not be as fast as the TM3, but it’s $30k vs $50k so different cars for different segments. I think they don’t compete it would be lije thinking that the Toyota Camry competes with the BMW 3 series. I think the Nissan Leaf and the TM3 complement each other in offering more options in “different” MarkeMarket segments. Even the Bolt can’t not be considered competition until the 60Kwh battery arrives (sales only in 2019)

Maybe for 2018 but in regards to the 2019 e+ version for 35K why not just get a base Model 3 instead?? Base model 3 will be 35K, not 50K, and will be available in 2019.

The old I can get a base ____ for the price of a optioned _____ dilemma that car buyers have always gone through. Just test drive the two and make a decision. Neither has been released so the argument is moot.

…yes except here the two models we are comparing have the same range (base model 3 versus 2019 Leaf e+), which is arguably the most important factor for an EV.

You’re arguing in circles here. Yes they have about the same range but your comparing two cars that don’t yet exist. Range is equivalent so the other factors are still TBD.

If range is truly the most important factor for an EV then at the $35k price point you would clearly opt for the Bolt.

Plus, good luck getting a base Model 3 and not everyone wants a sedan. Some people really desire a hatchback.

Different strokes for different folks.

“Could they be able to produce more than 40/50k in 2018 in the US?, anyone knows the installed capacity?”

I think that by now, Nissan has a pretty good idea of how many Leafs they can sell in the USA. Why would they want to produce more than they can sell?

Things may improve if and when Nissan finally puts an active thermal management system into the Leaf, but until it does, it’s almost a mathematical certainty that its sales (including leases) are going to continue to decline.

By refusing to update the Leaf, Nissan is likely making a bigger gross profit margin on its PEV than any other auto maker (for sales in first-world countries) except Tesla. But it’s doing so at the expense of ever-shrinking sales totals.

NO DEPOSITS = BOGUS “PRE-ORDERS”. Those 13,000 “pre-orders” are basically people who clicked on an icon to indicate they might be interested. An e-mail list, nothing more.

When you submit your information, a dealer calls you and reserves it and a reservation number is generated at that point. A reservation isn’t based off of the submitted form.

The point is that with no deposits it’s kinda hard to call these “pre-orders”… Totally ridiculous.

Your point was that they counted clicks. Which was far from accurate.

Leaf 13,000 pre-orders, Model 3 450,000 pre-orders.

Do we need to say anything else?

for those who are not on the waiting list, yes.
Who will get theirs first?

Leaf USA 13,000 + Leaf Europe 10,000 a month ago + 9,000 Japan two months ago.
Likely over 40k orders now.
Tesla about 450k reservations.

For those not familiar with the sales processes other than cash and carry, there is an important difference between orders and reservations (or options).

13k is not that much. I think it will sell well.
I’ve only tested the old and the new model for 20 minutes each. It is really improved.
I’ve been to a few Nissan dealers in Norway, and they’re stoked with the preorders. Most of these are contracts filled out. It will be one of the best selling cars in 2018 in Norway.
With the population of the US, 13k does not seem to be that much.

Sorry.. i cannot recommend this product until they add thermal management to the battery packs. I was absolutely stunned that it wasn’t included in the 2nd gen model. I think the new range is acceptable and I wouldn’t have any trouble recommending one of these cars except for that one issue.

If the larger battery version rumors turn out to be true, that they will use LG Chem packs along with thermal management systems, then I will be able to recommend THAT product to people.

“I was absolutely stunned that it wasn’t included in the 2nd gen model.”

I was, too! Well, with significantly declining sales every year, hopefully Nissan has finally gotten the message. And hopefully with next year’s 200+ mile range Leaf, they will finally put in a TMS. If Nissan doesn’t, then I wouldn’t expect the model to remain in production for long. With sales shrinking every year, the per-unit overhead is going to keep growing until the per-unit profit margin disappears.

Sweet news. Still Leaf-2 has not gone on sale. Is there any delay in getting EPA cetification.
Expect Jan to be low sales. Still they have 20 units of Leaf-1 on sale.

40 KWh in 2018
60 KWh in 2019
80 KWh in 2020 (will be good if they launch one for 300 mile range)

AWD version 2021 (This way, Nissan can rebadge it as Crossover)
Every year, something needs to be done to keep the sales humming. Just like Tesla.

Even in its 7th year it sold so well and that’s great. I believe some 8,000 units were sold in Japan in 2017.

Europe Sales
2017-Thru Nov 16.381
2016 18.210
2015 15.303
2014 15.158
2013 11.097
2012 5.211
2011 1.728
2010 36

M3 - reserved -- Niro/Leaf 2.0/Outlander - TBD

We should know soon enough. Got VM saying first ones arriving in 2 weeks and still taking reservations to fill. They say Waitlist based on allocations now into March.

$1000 deposit and will allow to configure.