Nissan LEAF Is Germany’s First V2G-Approved Electric Car

White 2018 Nissan LEAF charging

OCT 23 2018 BY MARK KANE 25

But is there a market for V2G already?

Vehicle-To-Grid (V2G) is the concept that enables bi-directional energy flow between an electric car and the electric grid (or building), which at scale could enable cars to become disposable energy storage systems (while connected) to help the grid at peak demand or emergency situations.

The possibility to use EV’s batteries is more tempting as more cars with big batteries hit the roads. For example, 1 million EVs that would (if needed) discharge to the grid just 10 kW through a bi-directional DC charger would provide 10 GW of power in a matter of seconds.

Currently, the V2G concept is tested in various countries in pilot projects. Recently, the Nissan LEAF was approved for V2G in Germany (athe s first car), which suggests that new projects are in the pipeline.

Guillaume Pelletreau, Vice President and Managing Director, Nissan Center Europe, said:

“We strongly believe in an emission-free future Leaf batteries could make an important contribution to energy transition in Germany and a sustainable future.”

Nissan LEAF uses V2G through CHAdeMO charging standard (the concept and bi-directional chargers are shown at the Move360 fairs in Munich). German manufacturers, on the other hand, use CCS Combo charging standard and so far we haven’t seen much interest in V2G from them.

The drawback of V2G is that bi-directional chargers are expensive and there are almost none besides those used in pilot projects.

Source: Reuters

Categories: Charging, Nissan

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25 Comments on "Nissan LEAF Is Germany’s First V2G-Approved Electric Car"

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orinoco

For emergency and grid-power-in-the-middle-of-nowhere purpose it’s cheaper to connect an inverter to the 12VDC-battery to get grid power. Anyway blackouts are quite rare in Germany. It’s not a big market. And as long as the V2G technology is as expensive as it is, bigger battery plants will do better than private cars.

Alex

Imagine when you have 200 million EV cars on the road and 10% of those are connected to the grid….
You have 400GWh (assuming half of 40kWh per car) of energy ready to be delivered.

(my math requires validation)

Assaf

Point.
Long-term, V2G’s main purpose would not be blackout-backup, but as an alternative to more power plants and more dedicated battery storage.

The 2-way charger may be expensive now, but 10 years from now will 100k chargers be more expensive than another power plant? Or than a huge farm of storage batteries? IMHO, good chance V2G will be one of the most cost-effective elements of an emissions-free grid.

antrik

If you take depreciation into account, car batteries — which are not optimised for this use case — are very likely *not* the cheapest solution.

Alex

Maybe owners that do a lot of miles will stay out, but many will welcome extra income, eventually free energy to charge their cars.

trackdaze

I think a pilot program had a financial return to the vehicle owner of 500€ over a year. That’s after charging back up is taken into account.

Herr Holle

Imagine 10% of those cars/trucks/buses have a fuel cell REX with a hydrogen tank that is half full. Even more kW backup power, even more kWh backup energy.

zzzzzzzzzz

Blackouts are very rare in Germany but they did have some close calls recently attempting to balance mushrooming intermittent wind & solar generators, and it is with the help from the whole European grid.

So they are doing what they are supposed to do. That is exactly how blackouts can stay rare – when preventive measures are engineered and implemented in advance, not after something breaks down.

dan

As the share of solar and wind increases, battery storage becomes critical. 95% of cars are stationary at any point in time. Might as well put them to use as storage devices instead of building out a completely separate grid battery system.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Now imagine what will happen during a storm, when everybody stops feeding into the grid because they’re worried about outages.

If you have grid batteries, they’re guaranteed to be there and can be used any time of the day.
They can also use chemistries suited to use as grid batteries, while cars can use chemistries suited to typical cycles in cars.

The cheaper batteries become, the more BEVs there will be, but the less people will talk about V2G.

Samwise

One of the big drivers for V2G in the LEAF was the Japanese tsunami, there was no grid left at that point, the intention is that it powers your house or some other stand alone facility to provide safety/warmth/facilities to isolated disaster victims. Imagine the benefit of being able to fire up just the local doctors clinic after a cyclone or earthquake!

Do Not Read Between The Lines

That’s V2H which is much simpler than V2G.

antrik

I don’t think it’s much simpler (or much different really) technically… But I totally agree that it’s a very different use case, which makes much more sense IMHO.

Places in need of such have diesel generators or stationary storage. Having V2G because of once in a lifetime things makes little sense. Japan had two horrible grids, that’s the real problem.

antrik

The amount of power you can draw from the 12 V circuit is quite limited; and it’s less efficient, too.

I agree though that V2G (as opposed to V2H) is pretty questionable economically.

Ocean Railroader

I got though a three day power outage with no generator two weeks ago.

At the time though I bought a battery bank to run the fish tank and it worked very well it was like a water bottle for electricity in that everyone else besides my neighborhood had power.

I plan to get a 30watt solar panel for the battery bank or a much larger battery bank to run more appliances.

If I would have had a 40 to 60 kilowatt Nissan leaf or a Tesla and the local Walmart gets a quick charger station.

I could in theory run my house by charging at the Walmart quick charger once a day or once every two days.

V2G is one of those things that sounds good but when you look at it closely it stops making sense, just like hydrogen fuel cells it is more for special edge cases rather than a mainstream solution.

jamcl3

V2G can be very valuable in many regions (but not all) where there is a market for “frequency regulation” and peaker generation. Typically, only a small amount of energy is discharged from an EV, as frequency regulation is mostly a bunch of short term corrections until turbines can catch up. Much of the value is in just slowing down charging briefly here and there. Reverse flow can be relatively infrequent but very valuable, sometimes ten times the price of retail electricity.

antrik

Smart charging definitely makes sense; but actual V2G (what you call “reverse flow”) is questionable.

As you say yourself, the energy capacity needed for grid services is fairly small — thus even just a fraction of the grid batteries needed for load shifting, can cover all the grid services you need as a side gig.

Now we are talking, smart charging will become very important (and smart use of heat pumps and such for heat and hot water).

Hans Blix

V2G will be a great second use of all the battery capacity (and capital) standing still doing nothing in parking lots. Do it! How much renewable energy could be stored an detached back to the grid… Wonderful. How is the cycle “stability” of solid state batteries? Shouldn’t it be pretty much indefinite without the electrolyte? Or is it a matter of the cathodes/anodes? Please enlighten me..

antrik

Indeed the big promise of solid state electrolytes is that they reduce parasitic reactions. However, all the research I have seen thus far focuses on using that to enable more fragile electrode chemistries (for better energy density), rather than for getting higher cycle counts. Indeed “solid state” is used almost synonymously with lithium metal anodes, which allow for much better density, but have other stability problems even without a liquid electrolyte… Indeed fixing the cycle life problem is the top challenge for making lithium metal anodes practicable.

All present and foreseeable future EV batteries have limited cycle lives — so usually you will in fact want them “standing still doing nothing”, rather than increasing depreciation by putting extra cycles on them…

DP

Is this an existing capability of Leafs? If so, what is done to allow it to happen? This SMH story makes reference to it https://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/the-economy/nissan-plans-to-be-trigger-for-electric-vehicle-boom-20181004-p507rl.html .

It would be nice if Inside EVs had an article on it with more details of how a Leaf owner would take advantage of it.

antrik

AIUI, the 2018 LEAF has this capability, but thus far it’s been used only in some pilot programs.

Hauer

I do get the concept.
What I do not get ist why onybody would put a battery system, which is already a poor design, under even more stress.

Of course long term it might take load off the grid when we have stormy nights and timehift it for the breakfast-peak.