VW CEO Blasts Tesla For Low Sales, Losing Millions


“If I am correctly informed, Tesla each quarter destroys millions of dollars in the three digits.”

Described as being a “forum for international understanding,” the “Menschen in Europe” event was organized this week in Passau, Germany to talk about everything from business and politics to arts and culture.

The car industry was also a subject of debate and Volkswagen CEO’s Matthias Müller was invited to say a few words.

“Now I really need to say a few words about Tesla: With all due respect, there are some world champions of big announcements in this world – I don’t want to name names.

There are companies that barely sell 80,000 cars a year. Then there are companies like Volkswagen that sell 11 million cars this year, and produce a profit of 13 or 14 billion euro. If I am correctly informed, Tesla each quarter destroys millions of dollars in the three digits, and it willy-nilly fires its workers. Social responsibility? Please. We should not get carried away and compare apples with oranges.”

Well, it’s rather too late for “I don’t want to name names,” isn’t it? The part about not being socially responsible likely has to do with the fact that Tesla recently dismissing hundreds of employees (between 400 and 700 workers). This statement made by the VW CEO is quite brave when we take into account the group has been going through some major issues caused by the emissions scandal, prompting the company to switch towards an aggressive EV plan.

Matthias Müller’s criticism of Tesla comes less than two weeks after a bold statement made by an exec at General Motors. The firm’s director of autonomous integration, Scott Miller, argued Elon Musk is “full of crap” regarding the autonomous driving capabilities of the Model 3 by allegedly being able to meet the maximum level 5 requirements.

For our German-speaking readers, attached below is Matthias Müller’s statement:

Source: Daily Kanban via Ars Technica

Categories: Tesla, Volkswagen


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149 Comments on "VW CEO Blasts Tesla For Low Sales, Losing Millions"

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“First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you.”

-Nicholas Klein 1918

So true. Go Tesla go. Give it to them.

Sure, but let’s face it: it doesn’t follow that everyone who’s ignored and ridiculed ends up being built monuments to.

For example, consider how stupid your words above seem if you instead post them on basically any story the past year about Faraday Future!

Tesla has come far compared to FF. But the troubles they are still having do seem to demonstrate they’ve hardly become the – excuse the pun – well-oiled machine that they need to be.

Another Euro point of view

So true, a high stock price does not mean much. I mean the stock market’s driving license was suspended long time ago due to substance abuse.

“They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” — Carl Sagan

I don’t think that’s applicable to Tesla, though. Even if it ultimately fails, which is possible, Tesla is not likely to become a laughing-stock. Whatever else it will or won’t accomplish, Tesla has already made the car which garnered the most “Best car of the year” awards than any other in history: The Model S. And several “Best car ever made” reviews, too!

Those who ignore the innovators Geometric Asset Growth, and therefore, Company Growth are doomed with their old product line being obsolete.

The saying in this situation still holds true.

The point isn’t that it’s a given that monuments will be built to Tesla but rather these legacy automakers started out not being threatened by this EV startup and have basically made fun of them or mocked them. Now they are attacking. There is a reason for this.

The major automakers never got to even noticing much less mocking or laughing at FF. They are actively attacking Tesla now. They are threatened for a reason.

Guess he was not going stress how Tesla has 2/3 the market cap VW has despite the latter selling 2 orders of magnitude more cars. Apples and oranges indeed;)

Investors like talking about market capitalization, but that can disappear in hours with some bad news.

That’s what shorters have been betting on for years losing billions in the process. It was actually VW’s stock that crashed from $250 to $90 after some bad news, the emission fraud. Apples and oranges all right somehow…

Right, and how much money have they lost and continue to lose due to the “Big Stink” 10-12 Billion by some estimates.

I think also we need to take into consideration that VW willfully and knowingly with malice aforethought devised or assisted in advising a pollution control system designed specifically to cheat pollution testing equipment.

This went on for years known at the highest levels of the company while VW continued to produce and promote these death boxes on wheels world wide.

VW has nothing to say that carries any weight whatsoever.

Thank you!!! 1+!!!

Greetings from Germany

That is correct, but what he is saying is that that is two thirds of about one percent of the total market.
While wishing Tesla all the best of luck in transforming and disrupting the automotive industry, you will have to give Matthias Müller that Tesla is at this point small potato – with some imperfections too.
Let’s all hope that we will soon have some real competition in this market – I’m sure Tesla will appreciate that.

Tesla is an extremely big potato when it comes to investor’s expectations though. Maybe because when it comes to plug-ins it’s incumbents like VW that are small potato by comparison.

VW definitely seems to have the ambition to turn that around though, I’ll give them that.

Yes, agreed. Interestingly Deutsche Bank delivers the credit for important parts of Tesla expansions.

VW is only pumping out Some Pure “BS” about their EV ambitions. They are using these diversion tactics hoping to make people forget the emission scam and then they are hoping it should/will be back to Business as usual..They have been & will keep on Dragging their feet and will never get into EV’s Whole Heartedly ,Only if they are forced to do so..

It’s not that they don’t want to sell electric cars. They want to have their cake and eat it too: continue to sell ICE in their current volumes, while adding new customers for EV. That’s why these companies keep making their EVs so weird; they assume that anyone who isn’t buying their current fine products must be weird, so they’re making wild-ass guesses as to what will appeal to those treehuggers. They are adamantly opposed to converting their existing loyal addict base to EVs.


Which mean Tesla has ROOOOOOOOOM to grow.
VW not so much.

Meanwhile I read that it’s calculated that 5000 people die every year in Europe due to the NOx emissions that exceed regulations -on top of the deaths caused by pollution that’s within regulations. That’s not only on VW of course, but still, that is what their 11 million cars do.

All that german hate can only make me happy! They are getting really scared…

Typical Germans. They seem to be nice and polite as long as everyone dances to their music. Once things turn around and they are not on top, they show their true nature.

Another Euro point of view

OMG…I don’t know how old you are but you will probably learn in due course that making general statements is really silly.

As a non-German European I only can confirm this!


You don’t need to call out the Germans on that, MOST people I know fit that same category, including many who post comments right here.


Your statement is typical racism. 😉

Avoid lumping people together by place of birth.

That’s not racism, it’s a form of tribalism.

This has nothing to do with germans.
The guy is making a scene because behind the scene he is in big trouble and he could even go to jail.
An american CEO could do just the same.

Muller seems to be making a total ass of himself. He’s making it rather obvious that he’s thoroughly rattled by Tesla.

Mueller looks like a fun, congenial guy I’d want to hang out with, but a total push-over for VW’s board. At least Barra hedges, that mandates slow people from wanting EVs. I don’t get the sense GM holds what she says captive, to near the level VW does with Mueller. He couldn’t say that, and you wonder the sacrilege if he did. What he can come over to America and say is, “We didn’t lie”. He can brag about profits, while recovering from fraud suit and guilty plea before the US DOJ. How’d you do it Matty?? Seems so out of touch.


I’d love to see Tesla post an “interview” with Musk in which someone from their PR dept. asks him questions about VW and their comments, and literally EVERY one of his answers is “dieselgate” repeated multiple times. (Think of the scene in the movie Being John Malkovich where they did this with his name.)

“Well, it’s rather too late for “I don’t want to name names,” isn’t it?”

A certain agitator is ruining things for everyone. For privacy sake, lets call him ‘Elon M’.

…No that’s too obvious…

Unmm Let’s say ‘E. Musk’.

How about , we say, Allen Musk …l m a o…

I don’t want to name names, but his initials are Elon Musk. 😉

We musk admit an American automaker is further elon than we are

HA! Well played.


Social responsibility? Like Emissions cheating? Hypocrisy is strong with this one.

Diesel Addictions Can lead to Spauning Liars , Cheats & Thieves.

VW is morally and ethically bankrupt but they make a lot of money so it’s OK. What a joke.

Just wait a few years and VW will have to close factories and lay off workers.

Yea, like in the 1980’s when all their cars were Lemons and came close to Bankruptcy ..

Bring on the well-deserved Hate.


Volkswagen CEO’s Matthias Müller said: “…There are companies [Tesla] that barely sell 80,000 cars a year… Volkswagen that sell 11 million cars this year, and produce a profit of 13 or 14 billion euro.. Tesla each quarter destroys millions.”

And there sits Volkswagen’s Müller totally confounded by little deplorable Tesla.

Suddenly the ID, ID Buzz, and ID Crozz don’t look so appealing…

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous


They were never appealing…

Yeah, Sure!

It’s a little bit ridiculous to attack competitors this way.
It just puts Tesla at the center of the car industry game

My sales manager once said it’s always Beneficial when the competition is talking about you no matter what they say about you , If they Bad Mouth , It always only makes themselves look bad .

Another Euro point of view

Well factually he is correct, what is unfortunate is that he is the CEO of a company that cheated on NOX emissions.

Now the ratio media hype/save the planet effect regarding Tesla is indeed silly and probably reflects lack of proper education of target audience.
For example I guess that the insulation materials sold by large conglomerates like BASF have vastly more “save the planet effect” than some factories selling few expensive 4000 lbs EVs to Californian bobos (bourgeois & bohème) folk.
Now of course news about providers of insulation material would not sell very well, you can’t for example organize a drag races between a rock wool roll and an extruded polystyrene board.

Insulation materials?…that’s what you got?! Trolls are getting desperate…

Another Euro point of view

OK, if you don’t like this “insulation” example lets take the 6mio Toyota Prius sold worldwide. Whatever, if I would start a list of companies that are currently saving the planet more efficiently than Tesla and with less hype I would never be able to end this list I am afraid. The hype surrounding Tesla has to me a bit of an “Justin Bieber” aspect to it, to absorb it it helps if you are teenager or somehow functioning like a teenager.

Just curious, do you think the fact that VW is talking about Tesla is not a big deal? The fact that BMW actually made commercials comparing themselves to the Model 3?

Tesla is a disruptor. Its effect goes well beyond 80,000 cars a year. And of course it will sell well beyond that this year. And I am guessing of course, but 200,000 for 2018 is conservative estimate.

Insulation is great stuff. But disruptor it is not. The Prius was good for what it did and it was a big seller. But going forward, probably not a big deal.

The Leaf is faster because of Tesla. The Bolt is around and fast because of Tesla. Finally, the ancient automakers may actually have a decent long range competitor to Tesla – someday.

Someday will come, but for some reason, it seems a bridge too far at this point in time.
Good news indeed for Tesla in the near term!

Yes, your prius example is much much better! Too bad they sat on it for so long and now all they got to show is the Prime…which in my view falls a bit short on ev range. I have faith in Toyota that they will eventually bring to market something significant.

Of all the people in this world, you the VW CEO should be the last person to bad mouth Tesla. If your company was caught red-handed cheating, you need to rebuild whatever is left of your company’s “reputation” before taking a cheap shot at someone else – be it Tesla or any of your competitors.

If I have to interpret what your intention is, I would say it’s fear. I doubt that you sleep well at night knowing the end of ICE dominance is near.


“If I have to interpret what your intention is..”

I’m stuck on how any consumer can go into a transaction looking to over-pay, as a matter of pride.

Factually, he is not correct. “destroys millions of dollars”??? How is staffing, and tooling, to build non-emitting cars at a 500k annual clip destruction?

It’s mainly the cost of staff, space and depreciation. Accountants aren’t stupid; investing in capital equipment does not itself create losses of the magnitude Tesla generates.

I completely agree: Investing capital in production equipment does not generate losses, unless that equipment winds up never being used.

But of course, you Tesla hating serial FUDsters will never admit that Truth.

You are, of course, correct to say that much of Tesla’s quarterly expenditures are not due to investment in production equipment. Some of it goes to opening new stores and service centers; some of it goes to building out the Supercharger network; and some of it goes to servicing Tesla’s growing debt.

But to call any of that a “loss” is not only FUD, it’s awfully ignorant. Investing in the future is never a “loss” unless that investment never pays off.

The disrupter proving it has solidly gotten under the establishment’s skin.

For sure I agree ! Wake up and squirm ICE makers ! It NOT Business as Usual, Anymore ….aha !

Thou doth protest too much…


This is sorta like a criminal calling out another criminal about how bad they are. Especially the part about social responsibility. Tesla didn’t kill anyone (that I know of) by firing them, unlike the tons of poisonous emissions VW poured into the air.

The statement about Tesla burning through hundreds of millions of dollars IS true.
Tesla doesn’t make any ICE vehicles, but they certainly have a “cash incineration engine” running full blast:

Photo Caption says: “Matthias Müller Presents the Concept Study Mission E”

That photo pretty well illustrates VW’s EV program…

A Conecpt Study

A Covfefe study even.

With this kind of profit, and this scale, sale and Capital, and that selfconfidence you master
Please show us just 1 electric car model that drives 400 – 500 km on a charge and let you drive from the top of Norway to the buttom of Spain, with a simular charging infrastructure like Tesla, then i will start to consider buying a VW.


Muller hides his VW’s cheat devices like he’s hides his hair loss. A car company that is greenwashing at every turn. Not to be believed or trusted. My money is on Tesla.

I wonder where did he put the defeat device in the Mission E. It must be somewhere in there…

How can CEO be this stupid? This is exactly what VW doesn’t need, to be in a discussion with Tesla about who is greener 2 years after they got caught with one of the most sophisticated schemes to hide how dirty their cars were. How does he thinks this will bring in customers? I drive an eGolf but it may be the last VW i will ever own if they continue with this nonsense. Less talk VW….make the damn cars already!

If VW decided to only make EV’s from today onwards, how much profit would they make? If part of the ICE profit was used to pay off damage to the environmemt and people caused by emissions (Hurricane Harvey etc) , how big would their profit be? Start on a level playing field and compare the profit each automaker generates strictly on zero emission cars and now we can talk.

I bet he gets fired by the board soon enough.

That’ll be socially responsible.

Profits is the game. If I have a 401k and i see that a company “burning” losing money with high cap and stock prices i will tell my hedge fund to sell those stock probto and put it in real estate and gold. Sorry but Telsa train might be coming to an end https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/10/investors-giving-cash-incineration-engine-tesla-a-lot-of-rope-but-may-soon-lose-patience.html

“Profits is the game.”

No, growth is the game Tesla is playing. Tesla stock shorters are playing checkers while Tesla is playing 3-dimensional chess.

That’s why Tesla stock shorters keep losing so much money every year. (And losing that kind of money really is losing… unlike Tesla’s continuing investments in future growth, which Tesla stock shorters keep trying to mislabel “losses”!)

Now, that’s not to say that Tesla can continue indefinitely at spending more money than they earn every quarter. But Amazon.com used that growth plan to spectacular success, and so far at least, Tesla seems to be doing very well at following the same business plan.

It hasn’t been more than 2-3 years since financial analysts were whining about Amazon.com’s negative balance sheet in exactly the same way they’re whining about Tesla now. Learning has not taken place!

Amazon was way more profitable at this point then Tesla is at theres

Actually manufacturing something (especially something like cars) has a slower ramp-up speed than re-selling books and other stuff built by someone else.

Nix, you and Pushmi are absolutely spot on! Musk is using the old style tactic of building a solid foundation for the future, then reap the rewards. The ‘wall street’ crowd is relying on the ‘go-go’ 80s tactic of grab a quick buck. then run. They latch on to the meme-of-the-week(cash incineration) portray it as if Tesla’s blowing the money in hookers and drugs, instead of growth and infrastructure, then get people to place their bets. They’re record ain’t looking good thus far.

I guarantee these smack talking CEOs will be following Tesla’s lead(even as they pretend the future is never going to get here), as the sustainable transport judgement cometh and that right soon!



When preaching to the choir one seems to have receptive audience, and of course everyone agrees. Sort of like a Trump rally.

There is certain smugness and indignant out rage that he portrays that is really laughable.

Hey Mathias if you aka VW are so high and mighty why don’t get a sweetheart deal with the Chinese to produce cars there?
Oh wait that’s the upstart Tesla that did that. How about something to compete with any Tesla? Laughing Junge.

Tesla has VW exactly where it wants it.
VW cannot offer a competitor vehicle because Tesla will be better and cheaper. They are forced to stick to their stone age technology and the end is foreseeable.

Beside, VW will make only losses if it would go all-in the EV business.
The dinosaurs cannot do anything to save themselves from the asteroid.

VW loses over 18 BILLIONS due to scandal in the US alone.

Over a 10 year period while they make 18Bill a year= 180 Billion,

Well well well… VW “master cheater” has spoken!… What a sham! Well, Mr. Cheater, selling “barely” 80k cars per year and being worthy 57 billion dollars in stocks means that Tesla is really THE “badass” of the worldwide Automotive industry!…

Another Euro point of view
I somehow understands the guy frustration. I mean those CEO have to put up with the ” OK Tesla doesn’t lose billions but it is just because they grow so fast”. Those CEO’s like Mr. Mueller, Mrs Barra & all perfectly know that growth explains part of it but rest are there simply because it is a badly run business. 1/ vertical integration – wrong (you are your worth supplier) 2/ unlimited access to superchargers – very good for those running a taxi business but bad for Tesla. 3/ Resale value warranty – every car makers would sell lots of cars applying this scheme. They don’t do it because it is bloody expensive 4/ way too many employees on payroll per car sold. 5/ distribution methods (Tesla stores) – this is why P&L post “selling and general administrative expenses” is so bloated compared to any other car maker. Thus making their gross margin results meaningless. Again, you are your worst provider. 6/ Cars warranty, it is OK to have extended warranties if your name is Toyota of Hyundai. If not you need to tap the financial markets for fresh cash as you are making yourself a perpetual money loosing machine.… Read more »

Another Euro… said:

“Those are a few examples but there are many more.”

You didn’t finish the sentence: Those are a few examples of FUD. A fine collection of slanted opinions stated as fact, half-truths, and outright lies. There’s nothing new there; it’s exactly the same B.S. that anti-Tesla FUDsters spew out every day.

Mark.ca was right, “Another Euro POV”; you really are a troll!

How is it FUD when it’s true? It’s not FUD just because you don’t like to hear the truth.

There are a few more points that could be added
*/ a failing gigafactory cooperation with Panasonic. The Gigafactory is way behind the plan worked out with Nevada state. According to admittedly anonymous reports the Gigafactory is run every inefficiently, which does explain why they are behind schedule and why they are using Samsung batteries in their power products instead of their own cells.
*/ a solar business going nowhere except generating a ton of costs.

Another Euro point of view

Indeed, that could be 9 & 10.

I have got a nr 11.

Producing more cars than number sold.

12/ providing loaners to customers that are top of the range cars (in relation with nr 11 actually). No other car makers do that again simply because it is too expensive to do so.

Another Euro point of view

Those 12 examples of arguably bad management practices my sound trivial for some of them (like loaners cars being top of the range etc.) but their importance lies in what sort of corporate culture/DNA a company has. I remember I once provided financial services to company Mittal Steel (209’000 employees), their headquarters where based in London and I was explained that when L. Mittal needed a new desk (in top 5 richest men on earth at that time) the first place people were supposed to look was the headquarters building’s attic, to see if there wouldn’t be an old abandonned desk that could suit his needs. That was the corporate DNA of Mittal Steel. Car making is not very different, capital intensive/low margin business. Once a company has been used to spend hand over fist due to easy access to capital it is very difficult to change that DNA. So if for whatever reason in mid term financial market closes their tap, then its likely over, at least in the form we know Tesla now.

Another Euro point of view

And about VW NOx scandal, I admit that since burning cash like hell does not emit CO2 or NOx , Tesla is in a better position than VW.

Now how much something is damaging someone health is difficult to assess. For example what happens if Tsla insanely bloated stock price is reduced by 80% between now and 2020 ?

How will hubby explain to wifey that their hard won cash just blew up in smoke buying Tsla stock at 350 ? That may lead to divorce, that to children with substance abuse issues etc..
Is that better than NOx ? Maybe yes, maybe not, its depends on the scale. 🙂

Another-Euro-point-of-view Said: “How will hubby explain to wifey that their hard won cash just blew up in smoke buying Tsla stock at 350 ? That may lead to divorce, that to children with substance abuse issues etc..”

TSLA = Crack Addicted Kids?

Lol… that’s the best one yet… your going to have a hard time topping that one!

Another Euro point of view said:

“…buying Tsla stock at 350 ? That may lead to divorce, that to children with substance abuse issues etc..”

So… your “argument” (to use the term very loosely) is that investing “long” in TSLA leads to your kids becoming drug addicts.

I dare say that most TSLA “long” investors are much, much more comfortable with their investment than “short” investors like you. Your desperation over how much money you’re losing is what drives you to post such laughable drivel as this.

If there is anyone showing the symptoms of addiction here, dude… it’s you! It looks like “short” investing in TSLA is your crack cocaine. Bad for you, ruinous if you do it enough, but you just can’t quit!

Okay, LOL! You didn’t even mention the loss of the magnetoshpere and its devastating consequences to all life on the planet!

Tesla’s stock price MUSK be lowered at all cost!

Meanwhile, VW/Audi was just raided for an anti-trust collusion investigation in the EU:


Another Euro point of view

Maybe it is just because they have different twisted ways of solving profitability issues:

Audi & Daimler: Our profits are not high enough, lets put in place hidden agreements in between us to twist markets in our favor. Yeah, problem solved !

Tesla: our losses are just too big, OK let’s pretend that our expected gross margins on the Model 3 will be 25% by taking out all costs except perhaps the cleaning lady that comes every Sundays on the production line between 10pm and 11pm. Oh ! And why not make few announcements, like what ? A factory in China ? OK good, stock goes up, we tap the financial markets, lights are kept on, problem solved ! :-).

Just out of curiosity, Mr. Troll, are you under the delusion that all the Tesla hater FUD you’re posting here is going to stop even one penny of the money you’re hemorrhaging by shorting Tesla stock?


Another thoughtless point of view —

You need to go read the Tesla Secret Master Plan. It is all detailed there. Built expensive lines of lower volume cars in order to grow a company that builds less expensive mass market cars that challenge the ICE world.

Tesla is now entering into the very initial stage of Model 3 and Model Y mass market car sales.

I’m sorry you can’t keep up with Tesla’s long term business plan that they made public before they built their first car.

Another Euro point of view

Tesla might still succeed but risk is that it is a bit too late now. Among other mistakes one that could cost Tesla dearly was Model X. That one should have been probably skipped or issued earlier with less wissle & bells as crucial car will probably be Model Y which will likely come (assuming financial markets are still open to Tesla) a bit too late.

Bit too late for what? I don’t think you have a rational understanding of what has been happening at Tesla since the release of the Model X in late 2015.

2015 Tesla sales (global, pre Model X ramp-up): 50,580
2017 Tesla sales (global projected): 100,000

The Model X has been great for Tesla’s sales, and actual owners actually love their Tesla’s, with some of the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the automotive industry despite what folks like you say.

Let your products do the talking, VW.

You know your company has arrived and is competitive when the head of a mismanaged company like VW accuses you of mismanagement.

Seeing as VW, and Robert Bosch got caught multiple times gaming emissions tests, they should be the last to criticize. They also greatly deceived gov’ts and the general public – convincing them that their “Clean Diesels” didn’t make kids in Paris and London sick, whereas in reality they were only ‘clean’ once a year during emissions testing, and belching particulates the rest of the time.

Besides, its Tesla’s business if they lose money, or don’t sell as much.

Perhaps if VW didn’t lie so convincingly, some ‘clean diesel’ purchasers would have purchased a tesla instead.

“…there are some world champions of big announcements in this world…” Yeah, VW certainly is the world champion of vaporware, at least in the automotive field? What? He wasn’t trash-talking his own company? Well, he should have been! This guy is so shameless, he must be related to The Donald. Between Volkswagen’s faux “clean diesel” scandal and all their vaporware announcements, a VW exec trash-talking Tesla isn’t the pot calling the kettle black; it’s the black hole calling the kettle black! “If I am correctly informed, Tesla each quarter destroys millions of dollars in the three digits…” Most of us don’t confuse “invests” with “destroys”, but maybe that was just a mis-translation there. 😉 “There are companies that barely sell 80,000 cars a year. Then there are companies like Volkswagen that sell 11 million cars this year…” There are companies that at best barely hold onto their market share year-on-year. Then there is Tesla, which adds ~50% more to its market share every year! Yeah, Mr. Müller, you see Tesla in the rearview mirror, and those headlights are approaching fast! You are quite right to be concerned about Tesla’s rate of growth, and yes, Tesla certainly is taking bigger and… Read more »

SO when the VW,Ford,GM,Audi,BMW Kia Hyundai come out with 220 miles afforable EV with the evo of scale of their production facilities will tesla still hold on with thier market cap, I don’t think so ?

Tesla’s growth in EV sales are for the most part coming out of ICE car sales, and as ALL companies move away from ICE cars, Tesla will continue to gain sales at the expense of the ICE car makers. Here is the math: ICE car makers make 100% of ICE cars, which makes up 99% of the new car market. Tesla sells one out of every two PURE electric vehicles in the United States, making up roughly 1% of all new car sales. Even if Tesla loses pure BEV market share to those car makers, they still grow enormously as we switch from ICE to EV’s. For the sake of argument, let’s say that those companies (none of whom have managed to put out a single car to compete against the 2012 Model S) manage to steal 75% of Tesla’s pure EV market share as pure BEV sales grow to 25% of US car sales. Even under that situation, Tesla would STILL grow their overall market share by 650%, all at the expense of traditional ICE car makers losing new ICE car sales. The faster the ICE car companies bring competitive EV’s that beat their own ICE cars, the faster… Read more »


I think we’re discounting what happens with AV’s too much. You don’t mention them. Model 3 most targets those who don’t like to drive. It may drive great, but if the mission is that “you shouldn’t be driving”, will Tesla retain the EV customer who’s only in it for electrification? Which message do I want my money sending?

I’m amazed at people loyal to VW, but don’t struggle with a primary reason being their commitment to driving. VW does not have a monopoly on that priority any more than Tesla will soon have a monopoly on a decent electric car. All Elon has to do is keep forcing upon customers his limited idea of the ideal car. -He’s run with that, more than once.

“SO when the VW,Ford,GM,Audi,BMW Kia Hyundai come out with 220 miles afforable EV with the evo of scale of their production facilities will tesla still hold on with thier market cap, I don’t think so ? ” Legacy auto makers have had 9 years to come up with a competitor for the Tesla Roadster, and 5 years to come up with a competitor to the Model S. So far, they have failed to do so. Why is that, Will? The answer to that question is the same reason that Tesla will continue to grow and will continue to eat the market share of legacy auto makers for some years. It’s not Tesla who is sweating bullets about the competition from other EV makers. It’s the legacy auto makers who are sweating bullets seeing the inevitable takeover of EV, and the obsolescence of the gasmobile. And it gets rather tiresome reading posts from people obsessed with Tesla’s market cap. This isn’t Inside Tela Investing, it’s InsideEVs. Why don’t you go over to Yahoo Finance or Motley Fool or Desperately Seeking FUDsters… er, Seeking Alpha, if you want to have a conversation with those who actually care about that? It’s nice that… Read more »

You can’t make money if the technology isn’t there, that is a good business decision. Now when the tech and cost is there then you can switch, all these “legacy” automakers have, economy of scales.

Tesla is turning money into factories, not destroying it. This guy doesn’t know what investing in production infrastructure means.

Also its funny that the car makers still think Tesla is a car company. It’s mostly not. The cars are a way to create a market for its battery business.

Muller: At least with an all electric strategy, you can’t cheat on emissions! What a crock of S. Sold my VW in disgust and got a Kia Soul EV.

That is a true win-win car swap situation!

Musk you be so hard on the incredulous VW CEO, as he is so Elon in the face?

He might be having a bad day on the job!

What’s he saying? Sorry, I don’t speak dinosaur.

Let me translate for you:

“We have analyzed the data carefully and we are sure that we will be able to survive the meteorite much better than those tiny mammals.”

Changing the industry is great and all. But in trying to reach the 500,000 per year make Tesla will be losing money for some time. VW are selling 11 million a year and are making money today.


VW-Müller is trying to put his skeletons in Tesla’s closet. Take everything he bad-mouths Tesla, look for it at him and then it makes sense. Müller is doing damage to business. His social responsibility is the one of a three-year-old who has been caught in the act stealing cookies, but who keeps denying he did anything wrong, although cookie crumbs are all around him, and his mouth is covered in chocolate.

VW should not be the ones to caste the first stones. Look at what they have done!
Tesla on the other hand has done a lot with their vehicles, Battery systems to homes and Utilities. Auto Pilot as a world pioneer and upcoming Solar roof tiles and panels.

Dosel gate has not shame. VW still e it’s because the federal government in US was very nice with the fines for cheating with diesel cars, they do not even have the diesel technology, please Chinese are way more serious than Germany about cars today. Once upon time Germany car makers were the best, is not the case anymore.

When VW starts pumping out millions of EVs a year at affordable prices, the general buying population will not care. Tesla will continue to exist as a niche premium vehicle market for those with the means to afford them.

Most people won’t even remember what dieselgate was.

When Eastman Kodak starts pumping out millions of digital cameras a year at affordable prices…

…oh, wait.

When BlackBerry starts pumping out millions of touchscreen smartphones a year that can actually compete with iPhones…

…oh, wait.

You see, EVShopper, the thing about disruptive tech revolutions is… they really are disruptive to the old market leaders. Leaders like VW.

Will VW survive the EV revolution? Maybe. And maybe not. Certainly it’s unlikely they’ll have the same market share when things have settled out.

VW has to thank dieselgate, it forced VW to invest into EV and charging network a lot earlier than other big car companies. It give them higher chance to survive the revolution.

Have you seen any VW electrify america infrastructure? I think that once Trump won election VW said forget electrify america.

Will VW survive the EV revolution?
Did the dinosaurs survive the asteroid blast?

I don’t see Europe/Germany putting a 100KPH limit on the Autobahn, just so “safe” autonomous technology can flourish.

Every time one of the major automakers opens their mouths it makes it even more important to me that Tesla gets my money.

Without Porsche & Audi, Volkswagen would be losing money hand over fist. And the Tesla Model 3 is about to take a big bite out of Germany’s small Luxury car business.

Another Euro point of view

You forgot Skoda, better marging than Audi despite somewhat “low cost” brand.

what a ridiculous old man – he better go home.

VW’s track record of illegitimate behavior is quite long.

Seems they are not able to succeed with legitimate means anymore.

It sounds a lot like what CEO’s said a decade ago about the introduction of the first iPhone. How are Nokia, Blackberry, Palm and Microsoft doing now in the smartphone business ?

I know another company everyone thought was a joke and for the first ten years they lost money. But, no one is laughing at Amazon now.

Oh, the irony.

Another Euro point of view

My last cars where all from VW group actually. Why ? because VW group garage is at walking distance from my house.
This is one of the many aspects that could give OEMs an hedge over Tesla when addressing new markets for EVs.

That close walking distance probably comes in handy on a monthly basis…..

Ba-dum tsshhhhh!

Another Euro point of view