See First Tesla Superchargers In Europe Retrofitted With CCS Plugs

DEC 14 2018 BY MARK KANE 55

The rollout of DC Combo plugs has already started

Tesla is moving quickly with upgrades of charging infrastructure in Europe, ahead of the Tesla Model 3 launch in Europe.

Because the Model 3 will be equipped with a CCS Combo charging inlet, the Superchargers need to be retrofitted with DC Combo plugs.

The Superchargers will be equipped with two plugs – one for DC plug compatible with Type 2 inlet in Model S and Model X and a second one with DC combo. The first such stations are already up and running.

Interestingly, Tesla left a sign on the Superchargers: “Model 3 priority”, which probably is there to suggest that owners of Model S and Model X move to Superchargers not yet retrofitted, as there will not be enough stalls for all of the incoming Model 3.

The DC Combo plugs used by Tesla doesn’t look pretty, but well that’s what people will use around the world outside of North America and a few other countries.

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55 Comments on "See First Tesla Superchargers In Europe Retrofitted With CCS Plugs"

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why the type 2 was not sufficient? Why the need for CCS? S & X can supercharge via Type 2 why not Model 3?

So that the Model 3 can take advantage of the much larger CCS network of chargers, and Tesla does not need to build as many chargers.

And the EU legislation designed to standardise EV charging infrastructure in Europe. If Tesla are truly behind CCS, rather than just being forced, then they will also start moving towards in in North America too.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Correct. Tesla is effectively being forced to deploy CCS in Europe by legislation.
Since their Australia and New Zealand cars use Type 2, they’re also going CCS.

But in the USA, there are no laws, and they’re the dominant manufacturer so they’ll stick with their own design, and see what happens once the ElectrifyAmerica funding is all used up.

Electrify America funding is mandated for 10 years until 2027.
You will get old by waiting until it is all used up 😉
Not to mention all other networks.

As an American Tesla driver, my hope is that the forced CCS compliance in Europe will allow Tesla to spend less money deploying superchargers there (because all Model 3s can use all CCS chargers, and thus Tesla doesn’t need to add as many superchargers) which means they can spend MORE money deploying more superchargers here. Maybe wishful thinking, but a guy’s gotta dream. 🙂

Yes, legisaltion helps. Seeing how often CHAdeMO adapters are used, I’d reckon they would go that way (i.e use 3rd party chargers) sooner or later anyway.

I would have liked a professional answer. Technical numberes. The only reason is legislation?

Not sure how technical numbers would be relevant to this question.

I know that Tesla did join the European “CharIN” (this font makes that name ambiguous; it’s char-in) consortium for CCS charging, but whether they joined because they really are interested in enabling Tesla cars to use CCS, or if that’s merely because they knew the mandate would be coming requiring European Superchargers to offer CCS charging too… I don’t know.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-joins-ccs-based-charin-association/

Technical issues do make it easier for Tesla to offer a CCS adapter for European Tesla cars; a CCS adapter for U.S. Tesla cars would be more complex due to technical issues. But that’s not the same thing; the European mandate requires Tesla to install CCS chargers (with CCS plugs) at its Supercharger locations.

Legislation and market condition always trumps technology.

I don’t imagine there will be any way to enforce priority, so it sounds like that’s more of a courtesy suggestion.

If CCS spec can identify cars, they can enforce priority through draconian means.

It would be a perfect way to piss off top margin customers.

Who would be foolish enough now to buy Euro spec car with legacy charging port anyway?

Note that “Model 3 priority” suggests Model 3 will not charge on Type 2 DC plug like S or X. It would be possible technically to make Model 3 to charge from any plug, with or without extra DC prongs. But if it wasn’t done, it means complete surrender, proprietary Type 2 DC for Tesla is dead and buried.

What a beautiful and elegant plugin design………….. 😐

Is it open to other cars with CCS connector?

That’s the big question. I would pay a premium to access the supercharger network. Tesla could make it a business model to expand their network and provide free supercharging to Tesla by covering the cost with other EVs usage.

I doubt people would pay much more than for a standard 175 kW charger.

People keep suggesting Tesla should open up its Supercharger to for-profit use by other EVs. This would be an extremely bad idea.

The Supercharger network was never intended to be used to generate profits, and it would be wholly contrary to the purpose and design of the network to try to use it for that purpose. The network would be quickly swamped and thus become far less useful to anyone — Tesla customers or not — if anyone with an adapter could use it.

If other EV makers want to join the Supercharger network… well, Tesla has an open invitation for them to join. But if they are going to participate, they will have to help build out more Supercharger locations and stalls, not merely pay Tesla a fee for use.

It’s not the makers that are charging, it’s the drivers. Tesla is joining the CCS networks now, we’ll see if they can get away with not allowing charging for other compatible cars.

Yes, I agree with Pushmi-Pullyu. Within my family we own three (old) cars – two petrol and one large diesel (and VW at that! 🙂 ) I’m pretty sure that the next car bought will be battery electric (and hence my presence on such forums), but in Europe the market is at an early stage. Next year, and the arrival of the model 3 should shake things up, but I’m hoping to put off any purchase for maybe 2-3 years. What then to buy? As things stand at the moment, then the big appeal of Tesla is that whilst I’d expect to do most charging at home, it’s the SuperCharger network that would give me confidence to take on a long trip – and the “guaranteed” nature of that is why I feel that way. Maybe I can make do with current cars until the model Y comes out? Or something from another manufacturer? I feel it worth waiting at the moment. As far as technical standards go, then compatibility (at least in hardware) can only be a good thing for encouraging adoption. Just look at VHS-Betamax and HD-DVD v Blu-Ray to see the harm format wars give. And traditionally,… Read more »

In Europe,
– CCS has ~5,500 DC Fast Chargers (DCFCs) and High Power Chargers (HPCs)
– Tesla Supercharger has ~2,400 DCFC stalls , and zero HPCs

In the USA, it’s more-or-less the other way around.
– CCS has ~2,000 DCFCs and HPCs
– Tesla has around ~4,500 Supercharger DCFC stalls, and zero HPCs

In both markets*,
– fastest chargers commercially deployed: CCS
at 350kW per chargepoint
– fastest future charger publically demonstrated: CCS
at 400kW per chargepoint
– the only DC High Power Chargers (HPCs) in use are CCS

The Battery Electric Market has been larger in Europe than in the USA for a decade or so.

——
Notes
* These compare to
– fastest Supercharger commercially deployed: 120kW (arguably 145kW) per chargepoint
– fastest Supercharger publically demonstrated: 120kW (arguably 145kW) per chargepoint

Both Supercharger 2.0 and MegaCharger have been mooted by Tesla, but neither has been publically demonstrated.
So far, Supercharger 2.0 seems to be 250kW, and Megacharger seems to be about 335kW.

It can be an extra income source for Tesla, og they needed to in the future.
They can charge different sums for other brands, to make it less interesting to use. . to prevent crowds.
Model 3 will be like a test of the charging system. See how many that will charge at home, compared to other brands for example. I guess Tesla and other brands have done a lot of research and estimated how large the charging infrastructure will have to be.

I still hope Tesla will offer a wireless charger for Model 3. . And offer it in the 35-40K price range.

“They can charge different sums for other brands”

That would probably be against EU regulations.

They can charge Tesla owners the same and give supercharger credit back.
Whatever it is, rule are made to go around.

You’re just assuming that because it’s the EU, there must be a regulation against it.

I’m pretty sure they would be allowed to give a discount to people who bought their cars. If not directly, then through some kind of club membership that comes bundled with every Tesla car, but is otherwise priced in such a way that it’s not worth buying for other car owners.

A question… Will the European Model 3 be able to charge using the regular Tesla Wall Connector (preparing to install one at home for my Model 3)

Yes, that’s the point of CCS. The same port on the car supports both DC fast charging and AC charging.

I would clarify that with Tesla. I think you will have to get a CCS style wall connector.

Why? Every car comply with the J1772 base protocol.

The charging socket on the car is split in two: the top half is the standard Tesla socket, and the bottom half is the extra part used only when DC Fast charging using a CCS plug.

What’s to stop other CCS cars from plugging in? For example, if someone has Tesla and i3, he can “pretend” i3 is Tesla and tie up Tesla CCS with free charging?

software?

There is a communications link that will identify the car. You will have to pay for electricity to charge your non-Tesla vehicles.

Is that part of CCS spec? I didn’t think VIN or other identifying info would be visible over CCS.

Yes it is. Fastned does it. Just plug in and charge. But of course you need to go through usual account/app setup hassle in advance. Not as convenient as for “no questions asked” gas buyers, but getting closer.

https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/115012747127-Autocharge-?utm_campaign=Klant-support&utm_medium=Hyper1&utm_source=WebEN-Snelladen

Thanks. It’s a shame that didn’t happen with Chademo and eVgo. There were some who were free charging old Leaf using new Leaf account, and I thought same may be true for CCS.

You will have to pay for electricity to charge your Tesla you mean…and non-Teslas will most likely not be able to charge at all.

CCS offers encrypted authentification. You can’t just copy cars. That would be to easy.

No free charging for CCS Teslas anyway.

“What’s to stop other CCS cars from plugging in? ” — Nothing can stop other cars from physically plugging in, but the charging session isn’t going to start charging the car unless/until the car gets authorization to start charging through the software. This is the same as going up to a ChargePoint charger and plugging in. You can physically plug in, but you can’t start charging until the software gets authorization to charge.

“if someone has Tesla and i3, he can “pretend” i3 is Tesla ” — Not really. It is all up to the software. The vehicle’s identity is embedded into each car’s software, and is protected by encryption. If Tesla wants to design their chargers to only charge with approved VIN’s, then the only way to “pretend” the i3 were a Tesla would be to somehow hack the encryption and then somehow flash the i3 and write the Tesla software onto the i3 computer. Or replace the entire i3 computer with one out of a Tesla. These are non-trivial tasks, and aren’t likely to be accomplished.

Is the water really leaking out of the Tesla SC moat? I hope so.


Is the water really leaking out of the Tesla SC moat? “

….seems more like the flood of TM3s is going to cause the moat to overflow and deluge CCS infrastructure.

Not really but I think that CHAEDMO on your Leaf is a dead man walking.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

No. It’s all about laws in EU countries.

The short length CCS cable will make charging anything but a Tesla next to impossible.
Tesla won’t want to open their network up to lesser makes which is what AFAIK, the EU laws are mandating.
I expect to see locked gates on all SC sites to separate their cars from the rest of the hoi-poloi/rabble in their EV’s.

/s /s /s /s /s /s

Tesla will make a fortune selling electricity to non-Tesla EVs via CCS.
$$$$$$$$ TSLA = $800 in 5 years.

NPNS! SBF!
Volt#671 + BoltEV + Model 3

And so it has come to this.

Really wish Tesla had included a CCS port on the US Model 3. Who wouldn’t want more charging options? There is probably enough space to have included both the Tesla port and CCS port in the Model 3 charging area.

At the very least, I hope we get a CCS adapter soon!

I thin you bhave to wait for CCS to be the dominant networlk first. They have promised Model S/X adapters for CCS in Europe though.

Standardization.Will be coming to the
USA in 5 year timeframe. Out of network EVs will be paying premium to use it

I certainly hope standardization is coming soon in EV charging, but what causes you to state this as a fact rather than a hope?

CCS has been adopted by:
– Ford,
– GM/Chevrolet,
– FCA
– Audi
– BMW,
– Hyundai,
– Jaguar
– Kia,
– Land Rover,
– Lucid,
– Mercedes,
– Mini,
– Polestar,
– Porsche,
– Renault,
– Rivian
– Volvo,
– VW
and
– Tesla (at least in Europe).

Tesla’s proprietary standard has been adopted by
– Tesla,
and they have now dropped it in favour of CCS for their upcoming European models.

Chademo has been adopted by
– Nissan, and
– Mitsubishi (but they don’t have any long-range BEVs)

I’m not sure I really understand this move. Isn’t CCS Combo the Mennekes (type 2) plug plus the 2 DC pins underneath? Isn’t the European Tesla already equipped with the Mennekes plug (but they have a cut out at the top to prevent SC cable being plugged into non-Tesla)?
So why do they need to modify the SC at all? That bit I don’t understand.

– How much charging power has the CCS plug? Same as the “old” Tesla plug?
– Still got no piece of info how much CCS charging power the Model 3 will be able to use.

Why it seems like Tesla isn’t interested in publishing such news?!

notting

They are adding a new cable and plug to an existing Supercharger stall. They are not changing the charger itself.
The Supercharger still runs at 34kW to 120kW per vehicle, with 135kW or 145kW per pair of stalls.