Bjørn Nyland’s Tesla Model X Battery Lost 6% Capacity At 46,600 Miles

NOV 1 2018 BY MARK KANE 41

The battery capacity drop is measurable.

Bjørn Nyland released another update on his Tesla Model X battery degradation after 75,000 km (46,600 miles) on the second battery pack.

In short, available battery capacity decreased by some 6%, while at 35,000 km (21,800 miles) it was 3%.

Details after 191,457 km (118,991 miles):

  • First battery pack was replaced after 116,000 km (72,000 miles) under warranty.
  • Second battery pack82 kWh (new)
    35,000 km (21,800 miles): 79.3 kWh (down 3%)
    75,000 km (46,600 miles): 77.2 kWh (down 6%) – 368 km (229 miles of range) assuming 210 Wh/km

Bjørn tries to explain the 6% battery capacity drop due to his specific driving profile with a lot of high-load driving with a trailer and many Supercharging sessions, which increases battery temperature and probably accelerates capacity fade.

Overall, even if the capacity fade is higher than average for Tesla, the capacity and range is still high enough to not be of a concern to most drivers.

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41 Comments on "Bjørn Nyland’s Tesla Model X Battery Lost 6% Capacity At 46,600 Miles"

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drpawansharma

Still a very decent performance

Tesla4theWin

Misleading title, should clarify that the capacity loss is due to overusing superchargers.. most owners charge at home and wouldn’t have this issue. I have over 100k miles on my 2015 Model S and never had a problem.

BoltEV (was SparkEV)

SparkEV was charged about half the time using DCFC (2.6C rate vs Tesla’s 1C or less on average), yet it had bit under 10% degradation after 3 years. Tesla with 5 times bigger battery degraded 6% after less than double the miles is not good.

But I suspect it’s due to heavy discharge in cold weather, not due to charging. Towing a trailer around in north pole (gifts from Santa?) will degrade the battery quicker, which Nyland was doing often.

Mark.ca

3 years means nothing, post the miles.

BoltEV (was SparkEV)

32K miles

Counterpoint

Actually, with electric vehicles years are often more important than miles. Unlike combustion engines, which can get more clogged up or damaged by friction based on how many miles were driven, batteries are mostly affected by temperature, charge/discharge rate, extreme capacity (either 100% or 0% for extended periods of time), and time. Most driving happens at a reasonable discharge rate and does not bother the battery, which is why Tesla can offer an unlimited mile warranty.

Andy

More miles means more charging, means probably more super-charging –> more degradation.

ModernMarvelFan

Battery degrades vs time even if it isn’t cycled.

mzs112000

AFAIK rapid charging in cold(sub-zero) climate will severely degrade the battery. When batteries get too cold, microscopic dendrites form inside the individual cells, these dendrites resist the flow of electrons from one side of the battery to the other. If you heat the battery up externally, some of these dendrites will “heal” on their own. But, when you shove a lot of current through the cells(like when charging a Tesla at 120kW), it causes the dendrites to get worse, at best it causes increased degradation of the cells, at worst it can cause the cells to short internally and catch on fire.
Towing a trailer, will put increased load on the batteries, which in sub-zero temperatures, is just as bad as rapid-charging them.
So, it’s not due to Tesla chemistry being bad, it’s due to prolonged abuse….

If you attached a trailer hitch to your SparkEV, and towed things around, rapid charging several times every day during sub-zero temperatures for half of a year, and the hammered it trying to go way too fast on the road(while towing as well), your SparkEV would be just as bad in terms of degradation.

ModernMarvelFan

Extra stress used during towing will definitely accelerate degradation due to heat build up. Tesla battery is energy dense, not power dense. The only reason it has the power is due to its ultra large size. Tesla trade off the power density for energy density.

eject

It is because he uses all the capacity the Tesla is advertised with. Full to empty. The charging speed doesn’t do the damage.

Andy

Of course the charging speed does doe the damage. (Did not expect a different comment from a notorious Tesla hater.)

eject

His charging speed was already restricted by Tesla so it should be within safe limits but he still has to charge it to 100% and discharge it down to just above 10% to take advantage of the battery. If you discharge it below 10% Tesla punishes you with extra slow supercharging until you hit 10%.

Null

Check out his youtube channel. He has used his X in ways that would stress any powertrain, including truck pulls, off roading and other thing people almost never do.

William

His Tesla off roading eXperience was an eXpensive juggernaut, that he probably will be more careful with next time, should he revisit those same ungraded dirt roads, with deep unforgiving ruts.

ModernMarvelFan

Overusing? So, the “use all you want” is no longer true as it was originally claimed?

Some Guy

I would be furious if my Camry lost 6% of range after only 46,000 miles and needed an engine replacement. The Tesla cult is very forgiving.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“Furious”?!? 😆 LOL! 😆

You likely wouldn’t even notice if your Camry lost 6% of its MPG in the ~3 years of average driving that 46,000 miles represents. In fact, it’s quite likely that it has lost that much, or more.

EV bashers are very determined to ignore reality.

Mark.ca

Lol…what fool! You Camry probably already lost range but you don’t pay attention. I posted here before how my lexus es 300h went from 40mpg when new to 34.5pmg 5 years later.

earl colby pottinger

Same for my car, when new it was 8 liters per 100 KM, it is now 10 liters per 100 KM five year later, and I expect to see 11 liters per 100 KM next year before I buy a BEV.

Søren Jessing

Following close to the average degradation curve of Tesla batteries so far, considering the cold norwegian climate and the harsh tests he often put his Teslas into. It will most probably lose another 4%, down to around 90% SOH, over the next 150k-200k miles.

https://insideevs.com/lets-look-at-tesla-model-s-x-battery-degradation/

Pushmi-Pullyu

That’s what I thought; 6% loss after 50,000 miles is about average, or at worst only very slightly above average. But the rate of loss tapers off rapidly over the first ~35,000 miles, so there actually shouldn’t be much more loss between 50k-100k miles.

comment image

William

Bjorn should be at roughly 75,000. Kilometers, which is very close to the average on the degradation chart above.

Kirby

Sounds about right. My RAV4 EV with a Tesla battery has lost approx 5% after 42,000 miles (in California). I don’t fast charge. Rarely use extended charge or run the battery below 20%.

Andy

Happy with the RAV4 EV?

BMalloy

I had thought that the capacity drops a decent amount in the first 50k miles then flattens out. Isn’t this right on target for that?

William

Bjorn is having some early success at beating the battery degradation game with his “Optimus Prime”.

My Nissan Leaf having driven 26K miles, and 24 months of in service use, is at 96.07 SOH.

Only 4% degradation over 2 years isn’t too bad under a typical driving cycle, considering the hard (high temp. +100*F) 348 DC FCs, and a 30 kWh battery build date of 10/2015 (one of the first months of 30kWh battery production, in Symra Tenn.).

Bonaire

Is it due to failing cells within (ie. the BMS limiting the SoC range voltage? Or uniform degradataion due to colder-weather charging and/or supercharging?

zzzzzzzzzz

It is what you expect from NCA battery, they all have similar life cycle characteristics and are well known to flashlight and other enthusiasts. No need to research the wheel, it is already researched.
From Panasonic NCR18650B spec. sheet:
http://i.imgur.com/7SrJXtV.jpg

Temperature and aging:
http://jes.ecsdl.org/content/164/14/A3503/F5.expansion.html

You may expect some 700-1500 cycles if you are lucky and baby-sit it at no higher than 25 Celcius and use partial 10%-80% SOC cycles and no high charge/discharge power for prolonged periods. Otherwise 500 cycles is expected limit with non-linear drop off the cliff at the end.
Something like 10 years is another limit called “calendar” when electrolyte starts decomposing because of age.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“You may expect some 700-1500 cycles if you are lucky”

More pravduh from the “Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!” anti-Tesla crowd.

Industry standard for BEVs is 2000 cycles to 80% of original capacity. From the data we can already see, Tesla beats that handily.

“Something like 10 years is another limit called ‘calendar’ when electrolyte starts decomposing because of age.”

Calendar life is indeed a different limitation, but we have not yet seen reports of 2008 Tesla Roadster capacity dropping off a cliff, so I think it’s safe to say that will be more than 10 years. Just more of your pravduh.

ModernMarvelFan

Battery degrades at a much faster rate between 10 years to 15 years time frame than it was between 0-10 years due to time based aging. We should start to see faster degradation on Roadster in the next 2-3 years.

Also, whether a BEV is 2000 cycles rated depends heavily on the battery chemistry. Lithium titanate can easily last way more than 2000 cycles. Some NCA chemistry is only good for about 1,000 to 1,500 cycles. It isn’t universally true without knowing the chemistry for all BEVs.

Pushmi-Pullyu

I’m sticking to my assertion on this point, MMF: 2000 cycles while retaining at least 80% capacity is the industry standard for production EVs.

Now, if you claim that some EVs aren’t up to industry standards… let’s say, the Leaf… then that may well be true. But that is the standard that EV manufacturers specify when shopping for battery cells for their EVs.

zzzzzzzzzz

@ModernMarvelFan

Batteries will all the nice features are like small blanket on big bed. You can cover any corner you want, but not at the same time 😉 So you make cathode mixes and compromise.

LTO in particular is low voltage cell, low energy density and expensive. But it it can charge 20,000 times at whatever rate. So it may be good for on-route charging buses where it is actually used. As for cars, I think only Mitsubishi i-MiEV Japanese version had used it, which basically Kei car (sub-subcompact in Japan). Which is logical for small car, there is no space for for big battery so you need many cycles and high C. But you can charge it at Chademo which is on every corner in Japan in 15 minutes. But only 10-16 kWh.

Tesla needed higher range and so higher density if it wanted to had any chance to sell cars in the US market. So they got classic NCA from Panasonic, which was top density, at least at that time. But cycle count is just typical (which may be acceptable for long range car), thermal stability is low, and so fire risk is higher.

carcus

Too bad the MaxRange Tesla Battery Survey mysteriously got shut down about 7 months ago. …

carcus

Too bad the running survey on Tesla Model S owner’s battery degradation got shut down about 7 months ago.

/when I use the actual name of the survey, my comment gets stuck in moderation ?

earl colby pottinger
Carcus

…. and did you happen to see any entries past April of 2018?

Pushmi-Pullyu

The moderation ‘bot here appears to be running on overdrive of late. I hope IEVs will shift it down to a lower gear! 😉

Allan

I thought this was not unusual? The first 50k miles exhibit an initial downward curve, after that the cars hit somewhere between 92 and 96 percent and then stay there for the first 250,000 miles or so.

https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/

Bill Howland

6% drop at 46,000 miles doesn’t seem to be too bad. After all , this seems to be better than most Leafs; and if it is 12% at 100,000 miles that won’t be so bad either. Since Tesla has now unlimited mileage on the “X” for Drive Train replacement, the car will end up being less an expense than an ICE chevy which by then will probably be close to an automatic transmission overhaul/replacement.

I know all bets are off at the 8 year time frame, so this benefits high mileage drivers more than low-mileage ones – but it is nice to know that a high-mileage ‘x’ owner is getting value for their BEV purchasing Dollar. It also probably explains why the “X” is still quite a popular BEV sales wise. Few electrics outsell it, other than other Teslas, of course.