SK Innovation Postpones NCM 811 Batteries

AUG 1 2018 BY MARK KANE 18

The new NCM 811 batteries (nickel:cobalt:manganese at a ratio of 8:1:1) will enter the plug-in car market later than anticipated.

SK Innovation announced in 2017 that it will start production of pouch cells (NCM 811) for plug-in cars in the second half of 2018 in South Korea, which was followed by LG Chem, who promised to release these cells even sooner.

Now, it seems that SK Innovation postponed the NCM 811 (new target is 2019) and will continue with NCM 622 for the Kia Niro EV.

The 811 will be used for energy storage systems though.

Additionally, LG Chem will produce NCM 811 but only in cylindrical format for electric buses.

It seems that the NCM 811 is not yet ready for prime time – the cause could be limited trust from car manufacturers for the new tech – so the introduction will be small-scale. If it works, then orders will come in and production will ramp up.

SK Innovation intends to produce NCM 811 in its new 7.5 GWh production facility in Hungary, Europe.


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18 Comments on "SK Innovation Postpones NCM 811 Batteries"

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And to think that Tesla’s new 2170 cells in the tens of thousands of Model 3s are already have less Cobalt then these delayed NCM 811 cells!

Independent research disputes that. Musk’s claim was vague enough that it’s probably true if you do the calculation a certain way.

Could we have a link to that independent research?

And other independent research I saw confirmed Musk’s claim.

Aren’t these the cells for the Porsche Taycan?

I think that the cell for the Porsche Taycan will be provided by CATL with an energy density of 270Wh/kg.


CATL is already a supplier for VW group and Porsche will use cell with energy density of 270Wh / kg (recent official info from Porsche media).
Cell with 270 Wh/kg was also communicated by CATL since several month.
See extract from this article :
“CATL’s NMC cell have achieved energy density of 270 Wh/kg”

Moreover CATL provide NMC cell able to charge at 4C and the Taycan is able to charge up to 350kW (~3.5C with a battery of ~100kWh)
See CATL product range from this article:

Again this is just my assumption based on these informations

Great info and links, Chris!

CATL is really cranking. The Koreans (LG and Samsung) are getting left in the dust.

Thanks, SK innovation has also good cell with high energy density.
Regarding the cell for the Porsche Taycan, based on the CATL roadmap, CATL plans to start the production of a 74Ah cell compatible with fast-charge (4C) on Q1 / 2019) with sample available since Q3 / 2017.
It’s match with the projects milestone of the Porsche Taycan and we can expect to reach a battery pack of 110kWh with 400 cells / ~100kWh usable.
See below the presentation from the CTO of CAPL (slide 3) :

That presentation is extremely vague… I’m not sure we can gleam any useful information from it.

If the Taycan really would have a 110 kWh battery, would Porsche claim only a 310 miles range? Hard to believe. Also, that 74 Ah cell can’t be a PHEV2 format cell (as that would imply a density of >300 Wh/kg), which is what other VW brands use; and not likely a BEV2 format cell either (that would imply a very low density). So that must be some completely different format I guess?…

CATL is only officially supplier for VW’s joint ventures in China, where they have to use local suppliers. If CATL indeed has any deal with VW outside China, that’s not public to the best of my knowledge.

270 Wh/kg should be pretty standard for next-generation batteries; so it doesn’t really tell us anything about the supplier.

In fact, going by the price targets mentioned in the article you linked, that would be much higher than what Audi is claiming they will be paying… Doesn’t really make CATL sound very competitive.

Also, did CATL claim anywhere that they have a cell that both has 270 Wh/kg, and can charge at 4C? For all we know, these are likely be two distinct cell types, optimised for different uses.

I’m not saying it *can’t* be CATL — but going by the information available, it seems a rather long shot…

VW group don’t use only prismatic cell, see the Audi e-tron with pouch cell from LG chem.
Pouch cell have today higher energy density compared to prismatic.
We can aslo consider that CATL will build a gigafactory (14GWh) at Erfurt on Germany near to the Porsche plant, less than 1h30 to Leipzig (Porsche) or Zwickau (VW).
Again the information about cell supplier for the Taycan is just my assumption.

Oh no! Not going to buy it then! CATL is Chinese supplier. German autos are forced to buy from it because China cornered Cobalt in Congo and Chinese government forced EV built in China must use domestic battery supplier. This is really really bad! We need a new formula devised soon to counter Chinese monopoly on Cobalt. Every replacement battery I bought from China for my cellphone bulged out in one year. For the price and easy replacement it’s OK but not for EVs!!! The bulk of EVs price you pay comes from the battery costs. And it was exclusive and not easy to replace!

“will start production of punch cells”.

I am pretty sure it’s pouch cells rather than punch cells. I have never heard of punch cells.

Yes, I think the picture above shows a pouch cell.

A Kangaroo has a pouch, but can also throw a punch.

The Kangoo ZE EV Van, has your back, or can pocket your stash!

The Pouch-Punch Renault Win-Win!

Na, these are special high durability cells able to withstand physical attack