Koch Brothers Attack Electric Cars With Misinformation Campaign Again

Electric Cars

JUL 23 2017 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 112

The Koch brothers going on the public offensive against electric cars is nothing new, and now they’re spewing more misinformation to make people think that EVs are toxic to humans.

A video from the Fueling U.S. Forward organization attempts to pull at the public’s heartstrings by showing child labor. Fueling U.S. Forward, run by oil lobbyist, Charles Drevena, is an attempt to promote fossil fuels. Of course, the organization is funded by none other than the Koch brothers.

These two have been at it for some time, first attacking EV subsidies (although the fossil fuel industry has enjoyed substantial subsidizing for years), then trying to prove that electric cars are dirtier than ICE cars due to the electricity’s energy source (which has been debunked more times than we can count). Not to mention that their fossil fuel efforts are what is causing the pollution in the first place.

Electric Cars

Really???

The new video attempts to convince us that electric cars are more toxic to human than traditional gas vehicles. The video focuses on the mining of rare earth metals used for lithium-ion battery production. However, it references cobalt and lithium, neither of which are rare earth metals. It also forgets to mention that these metals are used in lithium-ion batteries in basically everything else that we use today; specifically laptops and mobile phones, but even toys, pacemakers, digital cameras, watches, and a vast number of other devices.

It goes on to say that these metals can be mined by children in Congo and other areas, and cause birth defects, illness, and pollution. This is actually true, though electric car companies are aware of this and have made efforts to combat it. Tesla is obtaining its cobalt from North America, and making sure that it is mined under environmentally friendly conditions. The initiative fails to mention that cobalt is also used in refining oil, and cerium, the other metal mentioned in the video, is used in ICE cars for catalytic converters.

Finally, Fueling U.S. Forward wants us to think that all batteries end up in landfills. This again is untrue since these batteries are recycled. It would be crazy not to recycle them, since it’s a whole lot easier to mine a used battery than to mine the earth. Also, the batteries last a very long time, so this is not really an issue. Companies plan to recycle them, and some are using them for home or grid storage batteries.

How many ICE cars or ICE car parts end up in landfills? Hmm …

Everything has some environmental impact. To say that mining has no impact would be a lie, but to say that there aren’t better solutions and many that aren’t already underway would be just as much of a lie. The mining that is taking place is for a myriad of products, including gas mobiles. Electric cars are by far and wide not dirtier than gas cars, nor are they more dangerous to humans.

Sources: Fueling U.S. Forward via Electrek, Hybrid Cars

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112 Comments on "Koch Brothers Attack Electric Cars With Misinformation Campaign Again"

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“their batteries are made of rare earth metals like Cobalt Lithium and Cerium”.

Cerium is the only one of these three elements that actually a rare earth metal.

Guess it’s attractive for EV detractors to mislabel elements as “rare earth” because its suggests they are rare which is not necessarily the case.

This is emotional hit piece, nothing about science or accuracy. How do you tell a BS story? They bring up “save the children”.

Don’t cha know, it for the “Kids”?
This current fossil burning funded battery hit piece, is starting to smell more like an appeasement, of the ongoing adult “guilt by association” complex. Pretty soon we should be getting the next Koch Spokes Hole installment of Bill and Fred’s Excellent Adventure, of “Blood Rare Earths”, and “Batteries Gone Bad”!

Oops, “Charles and David Exellent Adventure”.
The other brothers got in the mixed inadvertently.

These kids will most likely not get a better life if they lose this job. It’s not like their parents send them to the mines because its fun, but rather because it is a rational thing to do under the circumstances that they live in. Starvation, prostitution and death is the alternative.

Higher demand for cobalt will create better working conditions and higher wages, lower demand will do the opposite.

I wouldn’t go that far.

This is definitely a nonsense hit piece, but if it was a video showing kids with asthma or kids in the hospital from drinking polluted water, is that also “BS”?

Incredible Bold Face Liars & for what? more money?? Shouldn’t those two be dead & burning in Eternal Hell Already ?..They’re so Evil the Devil doesn’t want them., Because they would become his Competition.. lol ..these guys are for sure, More Evil in every sense of the word , Than Lucifer himself.

Kids in hospital, etc. for something that affect more than just kids is BS. Even Koch video is true (Congo has issues). But bring up/focus on kids when the issue is more than just kids is total BS, Congo or asthma.

It shows why the Repubs are Dying.
A Hierarchical organization cannot have Insane Rich People lead it. Especially, LAZY Non-Innovative Rich People.

Oh, I can stop Solar and EV’s by WRITING A CHECK to my the Whole US Congress. Except you can’t actually Beat Economics and Physics.

These 2 morons have made the Repub party the Laughing Stock of the WORLD.

Hardly dying out as they own White House, Congress and 70% of state legislatures and governor’s mansions. And they will likely gain more as US Supreme Court after saying $1 = 1 vote and corporations are “people” for purposes US political influence is about to make gerrymandering of Congressional districts “legal” which means GOP will establish a chokehold on US and US will continue to decline into oligarchy as corporations and wealthy will rule like with some kind of praetorian guard military back control, Rome sank under similar corruption of its republic.

Liberals who push for EV’s, science and environment are losing out in US politics due to Koch Bros among other things but lazy electorate mostly. The frogs are actually turning up the heat on their “pan” of water.

Partisan gerrymandering already is legal, but the right-wingers on the court might want to double down on that in a 5-4 decision. Why else did they take the case? “Liberals who push for EV’s, science and environment are losing out in US politics due to Koch Bros among other things but lazy electorate mostly.” It’s very difficult for working people to take off hours to go vote on a work day. Aside from that, they have no one to vote for. The neoliberal Democratic establishment, while talking about hope and change, has delivered almost nothing to help people with their real problems. Bill Clinton pushed through right-wing laws and trade pacts that the Republicans could never have gotten done on their own (repeal of Glass-Steagall, cutting welfare, NAFTA, Defense of Marriage Act, etc). Obama, when the Dems controlled both the House and Senate, wouldn’t even let the single payer advocate in the room when healthcare was being debated and the whole healthcare system was turned over to the insurance companies and Big Pharma. The DNC then went on to cheat Bernie Sanders, who would have beaten Trump, out of the nomination (documented by Greg Palast and others). The Dem Party… Read more »

“It’s very difficult for working people to take off hours to go vote on a work day.”

Which is why GOP is fighting the vote by mail that states like OR have which works great. You have a month to look into candidates, issues and to vote.

“Aside from that, they have no one to vote for. ”

Bogus argument. Choice between a very competent technocrat like Hillary where would have seen incremental progress on (specific to this forum) climate change and EV adoption vs. Trump is about as stark a choice as people can have. If people want to sit home, no one can stop them but to claim “they have no choice” is clearly wrong.

In fairness, American voters rejected Trump by 3,000,000 people which is encouraging. But they still elected GOP’ers all over the place, every single one of them opposed to climate science facts and to EV’s.

As you correctly pointed out, Republicans “own White House, Congress and 70% of state legislatures and governor’s mansions.”

Given a choice between a Republican and a Republican-lite Democrat, American voters will choose the Republican every time.

Your way of thinking is one of the reasons why Trump won

Trump won because working people decided to gamble on Trump rather than suffer another 4 years of failed neoliberal policies. Although he has done a 180 on almost everything now, recall that Trump ran to the left of Hillary on a number of issues: healthcare (his was going to be cheap and cover everybody), fair trade (while neoliberal Obama was pushing the TPP), and war (Obama expanded the wars).

Your way of thinking is the reason why Democrats have lost the White House, the Senate, the House, and 70% of the state legislatures and governorships, and why Democrats continue to lose races even after Trump’s election, for example neoliberal, corporatist Democrat Jon Ossoff’s loss in Georgia even after the DNC dumped millions of dollars into his campaign while neglecting to support progressive candidates at all, like Rob Quist in MT. The DNC’s prescription: keep doing the same thing. The only possible conclusion: the Democratic Party would rather lose to a Republican than win with a progressive.

Join Justice Democrats, Brand New Congress and Draft Bernie for a People’s Party.

There is only one way for Americans to change a political system that rewards the rich donor class and leaves everyone else behind. It’s time for people to boycott the rich. Don’t subscribe to their services, purchase their products, or those that support them.

And the upcoming Constitutional crisis is the best opportunity to flex our power.

No buying gifts this Christmas until impeachment. No taking extra jobs, or even showing up for our current jobs if possible.

Hell, all it takes to start a recession is people saving too much money. How many people will start hoarding money in a Constitutional crisis? Encourage your neighbors to panic. Hoard yourself, enough to cover your rent, utilities and food for next year. Once the panic spreads to the investor class, we will see who’s in charge.

We’ve always known nothing big was going to change unless we all made personal sacrifices. This seems to be the sacrifice that we can define for ourselves.

“rare earth” – you are arguing about semantics here as if it changes anything.
Child labor in toxic artisan mines in Congo is still present and not going anywhere. Cobalt is just yet another commodity with no real way to trace origin, no Tesla BS announcements are going to change it. Cobalt mining product is sold to China for processing and lumped all together. Or Sumitomo processes it and provides to Panasonic to make cells. Tesla has nothing to do with it and has no real control of supply chain down to the mines.

Interesting! And you know this because? Did you personally ‘Follow the Money’, and walk it right to the end of the line?

If Cobalt mining is an issue, there is at least one alternative that’s proven to work well in SparkEV. 2014 SparkEV uses LFP battery that has no Cobalt content. If Cobalt continues to be an issue, other MFR could become Cobalt free, and still produce kick-ass EV.

zzzzzzzzzz continued his EV-hater propaganda:

“Child labor in toxic artisan mines in Congo is still present and not going anywhere.”

So, your EV bashing argument is that because child labor and unsafe mining practices exist in the world and probably can’t be stopped, therefore people should ignore all the pollution and global warming contributions from gasmobiles, and continue to drive them instead of EVs.

Got it.

And there are children working in the textile industry, let’s not wear clothes. There are children working in agriculture, let’s not eat either. Problems are so easily solved!

There are children dying in Yemen from Saudi Arabia’s insane war to control the Middle East and destroy Iran. American bombs. American planes, which the Saudis just bought $200,000,000,000 worth. The Kochs sell oil into the same commodity market as the Saudis, just as Congo is just one country that sells into the commodity market for cobalt. So isn’t all oil tainted with the blood of Yemeni children?

I don’t see the Koch brothers shedding tears for poor black kids in Africa.

“Cerium is the only one of these three elements that actually a rare earth metal.”
And, as far as I can tell, it is not being used in current or past lithium ion cells. There is research on using cerium in future cells, but only at dopant concentration levels.

I’ve spent a lot of time correcting the idea than any element you’ve never heard of or is expensive has to be a rare earth, so I find this particularly annoying.

Funny to see that they did not even bother to get some facts correct: Whereas cobalt and lithium are indeed used in Lithium ion batteries (but none is among the rare earth elements), cerium is a rare earth element, but not used in batteries. They probably meant to say carbon, the only other element (aside from Aluminum, Copper, Nickel and Manganese, and oxygen) required to build an affordable mass production battery (+ iron and phosphorous, when talking LFP, but then neither cobalt or nickel). Using rare earth elements in batteries would be a fools idea, because the cost would be insane, given the limited availability.

Cerium might be used in some NiMH batteries, although it’s mostly lanthanum. Their usage is declining, anyway.

Cerium is among the most abundant rare earths, so it’s not that costly. The supply is mostly from China, though, which many companies prefer to avoid. The limited availability is mostly due to the environmental cost of processing the ore.

Cerium and cerium oxides are typically used as catalyst supports in the refining industry and car catalytic converters it is not used in any substantial way in ev’s.

These “Death Throes” will only continue to get more violent. Just wait until they start showing “clean petroleum” Commercials touting American jobs and pride during Sunday football. Oh wait, that already happened.

I already get negative comments, dirty looks, and coal rolling here in the great carbon state of Colorado. Can’t wait for someone in a diesel pickup to throw pigs blood on my new Model 3 because it murders children.

Personally I love shutting them up by saying it costs be about $3.00 to go 200 miles, NOT saving the planet… saving my wallet

It’s even less if you use excess solar, all the way to almost free, below measurable limits.

A Tesla Model S driver stated his Electricity Cost was $5.00 to fully charge, and on that charge, he could drive from Toronto to Ottawa!

Same week, I filled up my Kia Soul ICE on gas, for $65.00! That equals 13 trips to Ottawa! However, I would be lucky to make ONE TRIP to Ottawa on that gas! And that was on a Model S comparison, not the BMW i3, which is even more Efficient, or the new IONIQ EV, also more energy efficient!

The Koch assholes are at it again.

One more example why we need really high inheritance taxes.

Taxing Musks kids will fix the Koch problem! Or, WILL it?

You must love war and killing people, because that’s what US does with the extra tax money. Even if it’s temporarily used for social programs, a-holes like Prez Dump will divert it to the military, and even guys like Obummer can’t bring them back (he couldn’t even close Gauntanamo).

We have enough perpetual wars already, no need to fund more by increasing taxes.

What the U.S. could do with proper tax revenue is to pay the deficits down to zero.

“proper tax revenue” is the problem: they (politicians) can’t do it no matter how we vote. For example, proper tax management could provide universal health care by decreasing the cost, but all they talk about (both Dems and Reps) are ways to increase cost, no doubt to benefit their employers (ie, health care companies)

“How many ICE cars or ICE car parts end up in landfills? Hmm …”
Your statement is the exact thing the Koch brothers did. Cars mostly get crushed and remelted down. The only thing they care about is $$ and anything they say will always get traced back to it.

Interesed to see how far they will go in their “war”.
Maybe someone shoud tell them that oil installations are extremeloy soft targets.

That was not US experience in WWII with German oil installations in Romania nor was it US experience with Iraqi sabotaged oil installations in Kuwait. Control of the oil production by hostile regimes is the strategic threat to US and was used effectively by Saudi Arabia in 1972 and Iran in 1980. As for the effect today vs. then. “The reason the oil embargo was so devastating in 1973 was because oil provided 95 percent of transportation energy in the United States. Today, it provides 92 percent. In some ways, dependence on a single transportation fuel is as large an economic vulnerability now as it was 42 years ago.” US imports were 5% then and run about 8% now. The other big effect is the cost, a $400B per yer tax on US economy. Biggest of course is the pollution, basic air and water, degrading quality of life, degrading ecosystem and of course global warming, the most consequential of all. And of course the $500B per year US spends on military out of $1.3T year total that is justified on basis of securing Middle East oil either by direct occupation, threats to oil producers, promotion of various dictatorships, overthrowing democracies.… Read more »

“…nor was it US experience with Iraqi sabotaged oil installations in Kuwait.”

I don’t know what your agenda is in claiming that, but it’s very far indeed from the truth. Anyone who watched the news during the first Gulf War remembers the horror of U.S. troops having to drive and walk thru a toxic rain of oil from all the exploded oil wells.

The initial estimates were that it would take years and years to put out all those fires. It was only because a true genius invented a new type of oil fire extinguishing device, by mounting fighter jet engines on a wheeled platform to literally blow out an oil well fire, that they managed to put out those fires and put most or all of the wells back into operation in only several months, rather than years.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/03/sproject.irq.kuwait.oil.fires/

Facts don’t have an agenda. Someone stated that oil facilities are vulnerable to military action when the facts of military attacks on oil facilities over the last 75 years prove otherwise.

They have historically been very quickly repaired and back in operation.

Of course, it was never explained to us why we bombed the offshore oil rigs never threatened by the Iraqi’s that we also repaired. Zapata Oil, making money for the Bush family.

This “Pull at your heart strings Video” is actually not so bad – at least the kids are getting paid a few dollars a day, and with increasing Chinese Influence in African Countries, life can only get better for these people. I didn’t hear you or the sponsors of this ‘advisory’ complain about the HORRIFIC birth defects as resulted from the U.S. Army’s use of Depleted Uranium projectiles in Falujah, Iraq – where the Doctors’ only advice was for the women to stop having children. That place is contaminated for at least the next 100 years. Some children were born without faces, or had all their organs develop on the WRONG SIDE of their spinal columns, in a ‘rock sack’ on their backs. Such children, if they survived at all, lasted only days or weeks, some in obvious pain. Horror movies have not depicted anything nearly as gruesome. Also, be careful what you wish for, since the U.S.’s ‘agreement’ with Saudi Arabia regarding the ‘Petro Dollar’ implemented after Nixon ‘temporarily’ took the US off the GOld Standard in 1971, is nearing its end. When this is completed, and the side effect of the US Dollar no longer being the reserve… Read more »

Last I remember, weren’t oil companies like BP, the ones that caused the massive gulf oil spill? It was through their subcontractors shoddy well head workmanship, and obvious blatant disregard for safety standards, that they then helped law enforcement keep any news video coverage, of the horrendous after effects of the wildlife destruction, and subsequent slow suffering, and eventual die off of marine aquatic life, out of the public realm?

Exxon Valdez is another instance of environmental destruction, and the list keeps growing. When will living down wind from a massive Texas oil refinery, not be a significant health compromising losing proposition?

Isn’t ironic that the the climate deniers are now consern about the planet?

Rather.

Obviously Big Oil propagandists are completely immune to shame, and are blind to irony.

Anyone with half a brain could see that gas cars pollute a whole lot more, and putting out this is only catering to the morons. But then, US elected Dump as the president, there may be more morons in US than I thought.

It’s pretty clear Kochs have gone senile. From their interview, they want to do well, but what they fund is hodge podge of nonsense.

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-hate-koch-brothers-part-1

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-hate-koch-brothers-part-2/

Wouldn’t it be great to see the Koch brothers put there money where their spokesmen, and Amnesty International says the suffering in Africa currently exists? There is an almost 20 million strong African workforce in the artisanal mining sector, that is in need of some substantial capital outlays. Loans and infrastructure development could potentially raise these 50 countries artisanal mining extraction methods, above the subsistence level. This much needed capital infusion would surely keep this ongoing rampant mine tailing devastation, from adversely compromising their surrounding land and water environment.

To say “Koch Bros” without saying GOP is bit disingenuous. Koch Bros don’t exist outside of a GOP that uses Koch Bros money and pre-written legislation to further their common agenda.

ALEC, the Koch Bros. legislation writing company, is responsible for the success that utilities have had in cutting back on sustainable energy, particularly solar power, by getting public utility commissions to eliminate “net metering”.

You will only find GOP elected officials promoting the ALEC anti-sustainable future legislation. No GOP, no Koch Bros/ALEX influence.

Why your republican reps seem to keep getting stupider. Talent can see thru Bull, only the incompetent can take a Koch check and believe or pretend to believe their positions will actually do any good for AMERICA.

I would say the GOP is very competent at getting and holding office and it is it incompetence or stupidity that has them taking Koch checks but good old power and wealth motivation. It trumps true patriotism every time and it is the story of the US since Reagan’s election in 1980 when “Greed is good” took over and never looked back.

We had two eight year interludes of sanity and real patriotism in Clinton and Obama eras but it’s been on 16 steps forward and 20 steps back over last 37 years.

The cobalt in a Tesla’s battery comes from North America? EV batteries are recycled?

Aren’t these just “Muskfacts”?

Recycling Lion batteries can be done and there are plants setup to do it. The economics are not there as the mined materials are still currently so much cheaper.

That can be addressed by regulation requiring the recycling of Lion batteries. We have close to 100% recycling of lead acid batteries due to regulation but that is an easier recycling process with better economics.

Bottomline we need regulations requiring the recycling of the Lion batteries (all batteries and all products actually) and that price is added to the cost upfront as we do with lead acid batteries now.

While current mined resources can handle current small EV production, if the plan is to replace 1 billion cars on the road with EV’s, there is not enough material to do it without recycling, some question if there is enough material even with recycling.

There’s no need for regulations. As you mention, “there is not enough material to do it without recycling” so it’s just matter of time before the raw material costs go up, and plentiful old batteries available for recycling. There may be short term pain, but long term is inevitable that recycling will take place. Hastily created regulations will only hurt the long term as it often (always?) happens.

“There’s no need for regulations.”

There is for two main reasons{

1. We have to recycle to cut the pollution overall. No more landfills or plastic islands of waster in the ocean.

2. We can’t wait for the “market” to “fix the problem” it never does anyway. From the flaming rivers of Cleveland to ozone layer, it’s always taken regulation to fix the problems.

If things always stay cheaper to dump than to recycle, yes, regulation is required. But that isn’t the case with batteries. As you mention, supply is finite, and the invisible hand will slap silly those who throw the batteries.

In fact, there may be even companies trying to dig up landfills to bring out old batteries to recycle if the supply gets tight enough.

“If things always stay cheaper to dump than to recycle, yes, regulation is required. But that isn’t the case with batteries.”

It is which is why we require a fee and mandatory recycling, both regulatory to get 100% recycling of lead acid batteries.

Lion being much more expensive to recycle will require similar regulations.

And you leave out the time factor, we have to do this by 2050 which is not going happen without regulations.

Lead is a perfect example of being cheaper to throw away. That’s why regulation is needed.

But recycling Aluminum is an example closer to Li batteries. It’s cheaper to recycle Al than making from raw ore, so most of it gets recycled even without regulations. Same will be the case with batteries, probably starting with Cobalt.

As for time, why pick 2050? I suspect major Li battery recycling will get underway around 2025, about 5 years before billions of old Tesla 3 start to hit the junkyard.

“As for time, why pick 2050?”

Scientists picked 2050. In order to slow the impact of manmade global warming we have to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80% of 2000 levels by 2050. That means by 2050, 100% of the 1B cars on the road have to be producing 20% of the emissions they are today. That means by 2035, 100% of cars sold have be zero emissions.

http://www.ipcc.ch

Ah, you were worried about fear mongering opinion (not science) of IPCC. Don’t worry; no matter what you do, there’s no way we’ll be down 80% from 2000 levels by doing minuscule things like EV. Even if entire transportation sector (planes, trucks, cars, RVs, etc) become electric, that’ll only cut emissions by about 14%. Every passenger car being EV would only cut emissions by about 8%.

Only way to make meaningful change is if fusion becomes cheaper than oil. But then, people have irrational fear of radiation, so it’s not clear even if that’ll do.

Lead is very poisonous. Sure you can throw it away if you don’t care about poisoning someone else. As a society however we do care about poisoning people, that is a good reason for regulation.

Poisonous or not, “free dumping” or “low cost dumping” will lead to lots of waste even with regulations. If driving EV has taught me anything, it’s that Free charging SUCKS!

But the evil of free applies to anything and everything, just that EV free charging is immediately visible.

“EV batteries are recycled?

“Aren’t these just ‘Muskfacts’?”

My understanding is that there is currently no large-scale recycling of li-ion batteries. Frankly, the materials are too cheap to make recycling very attractive, despite all the FUD from EV bashers trying to tell us that the raw materials for li-ion batteries are in limited supply.

Tesla says Gigafactory 1 will do recycling on a large scale, but so far as I know that has not started yet.

Correct which is why regulations are needed, adding the cost of the recycling to the product and requiring recycling of the product when it is discarded.

There’s a 270,000 square mile garbage patch in the Pacific, think size of Texas.

We need to have recycling costs added to each product to know its true costs and require mandatory recycling.

The best use of used EV batteries is by far in houses with solar panels. These batteries loose some of there capacity and the ability to supply a high level of current to drive an electric motor. However this is not an issue supplying power to housing. So batteries combined with solar panels can still continue to be utilised for many decades. A great solution to help reducing the dreaded noxious gasses in our atmosphere.

ICE use many more parts and systems. The fuels which they use are noxious and poisonous and damaging to the environment,as is it’s extraction.
About 86% of the materials, in the U.S., used in making cars is recovered & recycled.
So as usual the Koch’s are full of it.

Yep. Funny they never analyzed the materials used from the radiator to the catalytic converter in the tailpipe of their vehicles.

So, again, someone failed 3rd grade math.
( Greater than or Less Than )
Which is bigger, the pollution from cars or EV’s.
Which does more damage ICE or EVs.

Who uses more coal and “rare” earth metals: from the High Alloy Drill bits, the steel pipelines, the rail cars, the storage container, the gas stations, the truck transport, and finally the TWO US AIRCRAFT CARRIERS IN THE GULF OF HORMUZ.

Straits of Hormuz.

Persian Gulf. But there are 16 US aircraft carriers, 10 of the Nimitz glass, 1 of the Ford Class the rest “smaller” 40,000 ton carriers. 9 more Ford class are planned for total cost of $4T plus operating costs of $100M per year.

China has one 60,000 ton, Russia has one 60,000 ton.

US could cut down to 4 total and have TWICE as much as Russia and China COMBINED not including those of US allies, 10.

But we are INCREASING our weapons budget and cutting our science and mfg subsidies for sustainable energy and usage like high speed electric train systems.

The Koch are anti-American by any metric.

“The Koch are anti-American by any metric.”

Hear, hear!

Its true that we Americans are very proud of our aircraft carriers – but it only takes one cruise missile from the Russians, or even the Chinese now, to sink them. Their modern missiles fly so low, fast and accurate, there is currently little defense against them.

Just as Battleships turned out in retrospect to be ‘technology of the last war’ during WW 2, so aircraft carriers today are, for better or worse, sitting ducks.

Fossil fuel industry is going all in on a federal level pushing hydrogen to sell their reformed natural gas: https://energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/h2-scale note the choice of color grey for renewables

They can sell the gas to electric power plants as well just fine, nothing changes. Actually they already do it, with some remaining competition from old coal and nuclear power plants.

Now you can start sales pitch on how Tesla roofs and powerwall combos for $100,000 a pop, powered by grid-tie backup, are going to change the world 😉

That is Tesla’s sales pitch. At $100K, that’s going full bore 100% power for home and about 5 kWh (20 miles) per day average for an EV car. Savings is about $2K a year for electricity and gas costs and about $1K a year savings on gasoline. 33 year break even, about the same as 30 year mortgage on a house. Probably shorter if cost of fossil fuels go up from current near all time low.

Benefit is no emissions, no water air pollution, much more durable grid, no $400B year oil import tax on US, no $500B year military cost to secure oil imports.

Flip the $1T a year to subsidies for home and car installs. $10K per every home in US is $600B. $10K for each car is $170B. Leaves US $130B a year to spare just from oil import savings and lower military cost savings.

Unlike the oil import costs and military costs, much of the $770B is recycled within the economy in new jobs and mfg and tax revenues from them.

That sales pitch?

The US doesn’t import $400 billion of oil per year. You’re off by almost a factor of 10, actual number this year is roughly $60 billion.

Stop making up numbers and people might take you seriously.

Price varies so import costs vary. Up until 2014, it was averaging $400B. The current price drop to $50 bbl makes it about $200B. Price of oil varies, 10 yr average is in the $400B range.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart

One thing more dont realize all the parts gong into making an electric car are mined Cooper zinc aluminium plastics lithium plus 20 other elements . Remember an electric car puts out 5 Times the electromagnetic radiation allowed over a school in Canada to prevent cancer in young children. Those guild lines are available from Health Canada.

FIGHT BACK…convert a current ICE owner to BEV and you will do some damage to COCK brothers LOL

And recycle an ICE Vehicle into an EV!

Search EV Conversions, and there are still lots of business opportunities in that arena, too!

Meh. Rich old white men getting very close to the end of their lives. Who care?!

I’m not sure, but I think attack ads like this may actually help the EV case. If nothing else, it is money spent by the fossil Koch-brothers that help make more people aware that electric cars exist. Those who are prepared to accept the video content at face value probably weren’t about to shop for an EV anytime soon, and many of the rest will perhaps try to investigate the matter a little bit on their own – and thereby begin to unearth, as it were, the many benefits EVs can bring.

I just wish The Cocks would spend ALL of their far too easily earned money on campaigns like this, so we could see them where they belong – in the gutter. Unfortunately that’s not likely to ever happen; if anything, it is more probable they will at some point simply move their capital out of the oil business and into renewable energy. It’s not like capital is difficult to move, and it’s not like these two are real oilmen – they are simply capitalists of the most ruthless, amoral kind.

What you’re suggesting is kind of like CNN trying to fight meme, but had the opposite effect of creating huge number of other memes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CidT8Ed4iC4

If US didn’t elect Dump, I would’ve said the people would research this easily debunked video, and promote EV. But I’m not so sure now.

Forbes said (but have walked the number back somewhat) that they will profit $100 Billion of the XL pipeline alone.
They have “invested” in our government.

Just buy an EV and send a pic of the receipt to these assholes 😀

Save the children! Keep burning petroleum, because the toxic gasses and carcinogens from burning gasoline and diesel in your cars and trucks is so good for the little ones. It helps them grow, and is good for developing brains!

Honest, has Big Oil ever lied to you? Oh wait, don’t answer that…

The bothers 2 must believe their audiences are real morons, because the kids they show are working in a coal field. Funny thing is, the brothers don’t give a rip about women/kids around the world living in squalor, working their oil fields, much less coal.

@Steven, please add even more corrections:

1. Lithium is not being mined by slave labor anywhere, certainly not in Africa. Its chief source location is South America followed by North America.

2. There is some slavery involved with cobalt mining in Congo. The EV batteries most suspect of getting that type of cobalt are in China and possibly also Korea. There are many other cobalt sources in the world, as the post indirectly suggests.

If you already write something to counter this type of crap, it’s better to fully counter it rather than just provide it with more views.

By the way, is this being actually shown on TV, or only a web ad thus far? If the former, in what media markets?

Koch brothers are notorious guys who will go to any extent to defend their oil empire.

Please note these 3 broad classifications of Oil production methods.
Vertical: Drilled vertically into a big oil well and the Oil is pumped out using vertical pipes and this is the simplest form.

Horizontal: Drillbit first goes down vertically and then turns horizontally to break the shale rocks and the oil realeased is captured using pipes.

Mining: Sands containing oil is mined like coal and then heat is applied to extract the bitumen like heavy oil which is further blended with lighter hydrocarbons like natural gas to produce motor fuels like gasoline/diesel. Usually this method yields a lot of petroleum coke which is like carbon powder and is very dirty.

Koch brothers are operating Mining which is the dirtiest form of oil extraction and that method is under decline as the costs are higher.

Koch Brothers: dinosaurs supporting fossil fools. Go away already your time on earth is over.

They don’t believe in evolution either.

EV batteries are not recycled? If anyone believes that then try to purchase them on the market. I have been planning for some time to build a powerwall type of battery but can’t touch any of these scrap batteries due to the very high selling price. There is a real demand for them and even today without anything organized in place to recycle them people still do reuse them.

I would encourage everyone to pass this story on to the news directors at their local TV stations, encouraging them not to fall for the propaganda.

You will likely find the local TV and radio stations are owned by one of the 10 media conglomerates which share the views of the Koch Bros.

I would be very surprised if Koch didn’t own Cobalt mining somewhere. They are an extraction company, and extractors gonna extract.

What else does Koch extract?

Nothing in that video sounded blatantly false.

Au contrair JT.

The Koch Heads are funding truly massive amounts of manipulative propaganda all over the politico/economic spectrum in the USA.

They are almost single-handedly responsible convincing many of the Conned-Serf-atives that AWG is not real and fossil fuels are not responsible.

Now they are also going after EVs and they are the leaders of the so-called Libertarian movement that used to languish in obscurity it so deserves until they funded it massively

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924

https://www.ecowatch.com/koch-brother-electric-vehicles-2462683886.html

I remember when libertarians used to support the right to an abortion. Now they say it must be left to the states – most of which are controlled by far-right Republicans.

I remember when libertarians believed in an absolute right to immigration. Now they see that the immigrants don’t share their beliefs (practically no one outside the US does), so they tell White men that immigrants stole their jobs… even though that means they’re in favor of government intervention in the labor market and nothing else.

I remember when libertarians were in favor of free trade. See above.

They can’t hide the fact that their infallible capitalist heroes have used libertarian-backed measures to replace us with workers who take wages that Americans can’t live on, so they now draw a line around America and say, “total free markets and property rights within this line – but nothing crossing over!”

Your definition of libertarian seems a little off

This is an old video but I like the way that when I saw it about a month ago, it had hugely negative rating and many negative comments. It now appears the video has had it’s rating hidden (you can’t see how many people have thumbs down/up on it) and all the comments are hidden. Kinda says it all.

I’m surprised the Koch brothers had the funds to make this video. Things are bad in the oil industry with over supply forcing low prices and profit. Things are so bad I’ve heard they had to lay off 3 senators.

Goddamn it, Cock brothers! You have virtually unlimited money and the ability to move into a fledgling industry (EVs, alternative energy, etc.), but you stubbornly dig your heels into yesterday’s dying technologies. Why is that? If I was an investor in the Koch’s businesses, I would be speaking out in their conference calls. Well, it’s their money… glad they’re ready to lose it all when the world makes the switch to EVs.

Thankfully exhaust from fossil fuels or coal ash isn’t toxic at all…

Why do they waste their time and money on this crap? It’s not going to do one bit of difference, surely they must understand that? Instead of fighting the windmills they should learn how to use them. Royal Dutch Shell has committed to investing $1B/year in renewable energy. They see where things are heading and they act accordingly. Apparently the Kochs prefer to go down with the vessel instead.

Let’s hope that happens

Norway has the second highest tax rate in europe next to iceland at 6,74$ per US gallon. The microstate Monaco is third and Netherland which tops the adoption of plugin hybrids is at 4rth place(5th place globally). There is no need to wait for better EVs. The adoption will follow by high gas tax. Im thinking of 10$-15$ per gallon. Since that itself will hurt the middle class, it can be neutralized with a tax decrease for the middle class which will be financed mainly by cutting subsidies for EVs and other green tech, but also by the gas tax. Then the market will come up with more rational solutions rather then the solutions that is designed after the incentives. For example, a fixed subsidy at 7500$ or the 12500$ that georgia previously had gives nissan leaf a higher subidy share of the total price compared with the tesla model s or x, which skews the market toward EVs with less range. If the 15k$ subsidy was ever to be implemented, the result would be a comeback of the imiev and the best sellers would probably have a battery capacity of 24kw\h. Some rational solutions doesnt involve evs at all,… Read more »

Cobalt and lithium are recyclable. Burning fossil fuels out your tail pipe is NOT recyclable. Mining oil in the ocean, artic and land is horrible on the environment especially oil sands! Oil is cheap and easy to pull out of the ground but at what cost to our air/land/water!

Hi Steven,
We’re tracking the entire Koch-funded assault over on KochvsClean. Check it out and stay tuned. Our great reporter Sharon Kelly originally reported that FUSF was Koch funded, and our reporting formed the basis of the Electrek and HybridCars articles you cited. Thanks for staying on this.

So it looks like the video has been scrubbed from YouTube and that web address no longer works…