2016 Chevrolet Volt Video Discusses NVH, Driving Dynamics & More

DEC 29 2014 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 92

Mark Reuss Drives 2016 Chevy Volt

Mark Reuss Drives 2016 Chevy Volt

General Motors is back at it again with this 2016 Chevy Volt video.  This video in one in a continuing series of 2016 Volt “teasers.”

Again featuring Mark Reuss, General Motors’ Executive VP of Global Product Development, Purchasing & Supply Chain and Andrew Farah, Vehicle Chief Engineer, Chevrolet Volt, the focus of this video is mostly on the 2016 Volt’s improved driving dynamics, enhanced steering, reduced NVH (noise, vibration & harshness) and low-end acceleration.

As General Motors states:

“The all-new 2016 Volt improves upon its predecessor in every way. We kept everything that our first generation Volt owners loved and listened to what they wanted.”

The 2016 Chevrolet Volt will officially debut at the 2015 Detroit Auto Show on January 12.  We’ll be attending the show so that we can bring you all of the juicy Volt details just as soon as the reveal occurs.

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92 Comments on "2016 Chevrolet Volt Video Discusses NVH, Driving Dynamics & More"

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DonC

Range tease! LOL

David Murray

Noticed that too! I’d think it would have to be a substantial increase to get that kind of response.

Or they’re just trying to create anticipation. Either way, can’t wait for the reveal!

QCO

Pretty significant range tease comment, which suggests it has to be the big five-oh at least, maybe a bit more.

Based on previous GM comments, I’m guessing 4-5 miles comes from drivetrain efficiency (10-12%), a few miles come from the slightly higher battery capacity (unspecified so far, but maybe close to 10%), and the rest needed to make the marketing number will come from slightly higher battery utilisation (which was overly conservative on Volt 1).

pjwood

They could do a new “Rated Range”. Then, they could show a lot more on the dash board without doing anything to the battery. Or, it could be an “..at 65mph” range, in which case they could model some theoretical maximum nobody will be able to achieve but would sound sooooo much better in the marketing materials.

Hmmm, would GM do that?

Bonaire

Range? 350+ miles. It’s a Volt.

an_outsider

“We kept everything that our first generation Volt owners loved and listened to what they wanted”

Minimum Std 30A 208-240Vac onboard charger + optional DCFC combo CCS.

Stuart22

Are you a Volt owner?

SIvad

I am and I would agree that a 6.6 kw on board as an option would be great. 3 times a week I have to charge at my destination to get back without using gas and I have only about an hour to charge. In the summer I’m fine but in the winter I never make it. Also since Blink started their new charging rates by the minute I pay over twice what gas costs per mile.

ziv

I love my 2013MY Volt, I was at 677 mpg until I had a old gasoline burn this week, dropped me to 626 mpg. But I would probably be over 1,000 mpg if I could get more juice into my car over my lunchbreak. I don’t know how many times I have burned gasoline due to the fact that I can only get 10-11 miles of additional AER in an hour of charging. 6.6 kW charge rates would up that to 20-23 miles per hour of charging and that would be a nice option for Chevy to offer. It wouldn’t cost much for them to do it, so make it a $500 option and don’t even think of lumping in DC fast charging like Nissan did.

Bonaire

6.6KW would be nice. I have lived and been fine with 3.3KW for 2+ years now. The only time 6.6KW would have been useful was for those days when I was far enough away from home and could charge for 1-2 hours and do some internet work and get a reasonable charge from it. Otherwise, rarity.

Give me 60 miles summer AER and 3.6KW anyday over less miles and 6.6KW. Now, I would think that 60 miles is possible with Gen-II on those perfect summer days. But typical would be more like 47, guessing.

GeorgeS

How many times do we have to have this discussion.

If it helps GM keep the cost down then the 3.6 kw charger is fine. Your not driving a Leaf for Pete’s sake.

Ziv

George, we have the discussion because for a lot of us it would be useful. It isn’t necessary, but then more than 40 miles of AER isn’t actually necessary either. But these sort of enhancements attract more people to the Volt, or bring them back for a second, newer, Volt, in the case of faster charging.

I think we are on polar opposites of this issue. I can’t figure out why a Volt owner wouldn’t want to minimize his genset use and you can’t figure out why I wouldn’t simply use gas and be done with it.

Adding the hardware needed to upgrade the charge rate from 3.3 kW to 6.6 would probably cost a good deal less than $500, so make it a $500 option and let GM make money while making their buyers happy. I will never use the fifth seat but I am happy to see that some sort of fifth seat will be in the Gen II. I want the Volt to work as well as possible for as many people as possible.

pjwood

I’d second that with 6.6kw charging available at pretty much all ChargePoint sites, and with the added cost to GM (~$250?), it sounds like Larry Nitz could have fought harder for it.

an_outsider

For almost 3 years, yes I was.

Electrification of transport need to grab every opportunity to drive electric. Until L2 & L3 infrastructures are available almost everywhere and customers have more BEV car options, there is some folks that will need EV-RE as 2-in-1 car.

Stuart22

One just has to suck it up and use gas when needed. Me, my Volt uses gas largely during my sales work, days when I go beyond the range of any electrified car on the short side of $80k.

an_outsider

it won’t take away anything from the Volt’s EV experience and the range extender still there for back up purpose, So overall, a potential for a larger EV audience.

Bonaire

There is a quasi-religious battle going on where BEV people talk-down the EREV design and instigate “not an EV” slogans for the Volt. In fact, the Volt is really more than an EV, of course. It is a perfect blend of electric drive and range-extender for unlimited, uncompromised range. Why that comes off as a big negative is beyond me.

ModernMarvelFan

B/c some of those so called “BEV purist” are nothing more than a bunch of nutjobs who likes to think their own choice as the “only” choice to electrification.

Ziv

I agree with the both of you about the puristas. They are kind of irritating but at least they play for the same team.

But I don’t see the EREV tech as the ultimate goal. I see EREV’s as kind of a bridge technology to the full utility, long range, fast charging BEV’s of the future. Eventually we will be able to buy 300 mile BEV’s that can recharge to 80% in less than 30 minutes for little more than a conventional ICE vehicle and the charging infrastructure will be in place that makes that sort of BEV simpler and cheaper than an EREV. At that point most EREV’s will fade away and the BEV’s will rule the roost, so to speak.

But that won’t happen anytime soon, so I will enjoy my Volts in the meantime.

no comment

if you walked up to a non-EV purist and told them that it would take 30 minutes to recharge a battery that would provide 150-300 miles (remember that when you are talking EVs you have to consider that the range can vary widely with temperature) of driving i think that most in the general public would shy away from such a vehicle. after all, you can refill a tank in only 5 minutes. it’s hard for me to envision being able to safely recharge a battery in 5 minutes.

Ziv

no comment, you may be right about the attitude of the majority of non-EV types towards 30 minute recharging, this year. But as more and more people talk to them about the superiority of their electric cars over ICE’rs over the next several years, and after gasoline makes its inevitable recovery in pricing, more and more people will see the occasional 30 minute charge as being a small price to pay, especially since 98% of the time charging takes just 5 seconds to plug it in in the evening and another 5 seconds to unplug in the morning.

koz

Agreed on the 6.6kw charging, even though neither my wife nor I would likely ever use it. There are plenty that would and the added cost would like be less than 0.5kWh (~2 miles) of battery that will rarely be rarely used by most drivers.

GM has never done a good job of identifying and concentrating on a target market for the Volt to maximize its sales, and this is just another good example of that. Focusing on what current Volt owners want is a poor strategy to broaden its market.

bro1999

A modest (4-5 mile) range increase wouldn’t elicit a “holy cow!” response. I think it’s pretty much guaranteed a 50+ mile EV range rating…possibly flirting with 60.

Bonaire

He said “Range” not “EV Range”.

Let’s do this.
Range = Electric + gas-mpg * gallons.
If that is 48 + 400 – then I would say holy cow too.

If mpg is up at 43 * 9 and electric range is 48 – you get 435 miles of car-range.

mike w

Yes or they could have put in a bigger gas tank.

Nick

Way cheaper to put in a 24 gallon tank.

Or make it a two seater and drop in a 55 gallon tank. Then you can say it has 1800 mile range.

Hahaha!

kubel

But in the video they didn’t identify which “range” they were talking about. Electric range? Combined electric and gas range?

If we see a fuel efficiency increase from 37MPG to something like 45MPG and it keeps the same size gas tank, you’ll see a ‘holy cow’ level increase in overall range, even if electric range increases by a mere 5 miles or so.

QCO

Note also the comment about mainstream appeal, which should help put to rest some of the advertising concerns previously mentioned here.

And although cloked, the instrument panel reveals enough to suggest it will bear a close family resemblance to the mainstream Impala.

no comment

i tend to agree that the center stack of the new Volt does appear to look more like that of an Impala. personally, i like the current Volt center stack over that of the Impala. a number of people have complained here about the tactile operation of the center stack, yet people rave about the touch screen on a Tesla Model S. go figure…i guess some people like to complain; when the new Volt provides better acceleration, i am sure that people who engage in jack rabbit driving antics will complain about the lack of range.

someone can always find some reason to complain about something…

pjwood

An Impala dash would be an upgrade, IMO. Better than both Volt and Tesla.

Tesla
+size
+more reliable touch response. So, better tactile
+pinch sizing, like ipad, great for NAV
+faster adjustment, when holding volume, temp, etc
-harder to reach, further away

Volt
+better contrast, less milky blacks
+easier to reach (maybe not Volt2)
+dims better/further, at night

Above said, they both require lots of eyes off road. They both fail to simultaneously display many things. They both require multi-step, targeted, pixel pushing.

The one-step, eye off dash, ability to adjust common car functions makes both cars less desirable to Impala, IMO.

Nelson

Seems like the left side regen on demand paddle shifter does not look like the right side paddle. The right side paddle looks like it’s split in two with a small raised ball on one and a sunken round indent on the other. Very apparent at 0:48 in the video. Perhaps mode selectors?

NPNS! SBF!
Volt#671

scottf200

Picture:

Perhaps for setting the Regen On Demand stronger or weaker?

James

Nice catch! It might be a mode selector up/down, and when you pull both it’s regen select like the other side. Wouldn’t that be handy once you got the hang of it?

Since the back components of the steering wheel or unique to Volt, why not make a proprietary steering wheel, GM? Why give ever single model the same wheel? Even Camaro got the Cruze, Equinox, Volt wheel! I mean, add 50$ to MSRP, I’d pay it to have a unique steering wheel. This mule obviously has the Cruze wheel from the front ( sigh ). Oddly enough, I’m not that anal. Lot’s of carbuyers notice these things.

James

In the tease game, GM is really lovin’ the whole process! –

The thing about teasing is – it’s a huge letdown if the prize isn’t worth all the hype.

I’m tired of looking at the 2nd-gen Cruze interior – hopeful of the best, and the teases keep raising the bar: 60 miles AER, 45MPG Combined in CS Mode.

I’m just going on a two week mental vacation re: 2016 Volt to stop the agony.

ziv

James, I will be ecstatic if they have 50+ miles of EPA AER, given the Gen II’s roomier backseats and it’s faster acceleration. Now if they can get the MSRP down close to $30k, they will start to sell Volts in reasonable numbers.

Bonaire

Those would be great numbers. But for me, I actually wouldn’t trade up for that. It is far more prudent and financially sound to keep a Gen-1 Volt for 6 years. I already am getting hurt by Allstate insurance for my Gen-I Volt and I don’t believe it gets any better with Gen-II. I can afford a bunch of new Volts – but wonder why other than for the fun of the new vehicle smell and tech.

I just renewed my Volts insurance w/Progressive for $410/6-months. Not sure if that’s good or bad.

kubel

Insurance rates are highly tailored to one individual- so there’s unfortunately no way of telling if it’s a good deal, other than shopping around. Lots of factors are at play: Geographic location, previous claims, your driving record, driving record of others in your household, your credit score, marital status, sex, age, education… the list goes on.

Not only that, but each insurance institution is geared for a specific type of driver. That’s why shopping around is better than simply relying on referrals for obtaining a good deal.

ModernMarvelFan

My Volt insurance cost about the same as LEAF (I checked all the quotes before I bought my Volt). But it does cost $120 more than Prius every 6 months. Then again, my Volt was about $15K more than a Prius before tax incentives when I bought it.

How many first gen Volt owners are planning on upgrading? I’m definitely sticking with my Gen 1 Volt for a while yet. My wife’s car is next to be upgrading, since it’ll be 10 years old in 2015. I don’t think we’ll get her a plug-in (mostly because I don’t want to spend $2,000 on the electrical upgrades to get a new circuit breaker box, permits, etc.), but it will be a hybrid (but not a Prius – too small).

CherylG's_DirtyLittleSecret

If the Prius is too small, then the volt will feel like a Sardine can.

We don’t road trip in my Volt. We do roadtrip in her car.

KenZ

We’re on a lease for two more years. Everything about Gen 1 is fine for us, including the 4 seater, 40mile range, etc. Only hates are the blind spots and the horrendous center console.

Would we upgrade? No, we’re going to go pure EV after this lease is up. Before it’s up, we’ll need another town EV, so we’re looking at a Leaf (likely just buy a used one outright), and then to replace the Volt it’ll hopefully be a GenIII Tesla dual motor (assuming it exists?) or some other AWD EV.

That’s not to say the Volt isn’t great, just that it’s time to move to all EV for us.

As long as the back seat grows, and the trunk doesn’t shrink, it’s on the short list for the wife. But so is the Audi A3 e-tron…

no comment

in interpret the statement about “going more mainstream” to mean that, among other things, the new Volt will certainly have a bench in the rear.

Bill Howland

I’m assuming you only charge at 110 now? You don’t have provision to handle a second car also at 110?

If high voltage could you use share the 1 evse between the 2 cars, and use 110 while the other car is at 220 and vice-versa?

It would be a shame not to buy an electric car just because you think it would be expensive to charge it.

I only have a 30 amp evse and 110 volt cords for 2 electric cars, and I find almost all the time I’m never at a lack of an evse. But If I have to charge both cars at the same time, I can do that too, albeit somewhat slowly.

pjwood

I ran 30A 240v, and then 6/3 wire when I needed a full 10kw. 125 feet of that thick stuff is ~$230. Add breaker and NEMA 14-50 box, and maybe you get to $260. I don’t get “$2,000”, Anthony, even if you are throwing labor costs in there?

pjwood

…oops didn’t see you need a new panel. Oh well, at least that’s hardly an EV specific need.

To answer original question. We wouldn’t do 2 Volts, but Volt2 comes when ours will be 3 years old. If range is 50, or greater, or if other real-world cold improvements pan out (the new exhaust manifold, maybe a front heating element in the windshield), than I’m a candidate of Volt2. Hate to say my wife’s first moves are – leave defrost on, put heat to max. Without pre-conditioning, her ~55 mile days go through a gallon. That’s the sad reality for “hands-off” drivers in cold weather.

If hybrid and big, how about Honda Accord 2.0ltr series Accord, for a true 50mpg? Not sure what it does in cold, but it has great space.

pjwood

..for the uninitiated considering the Volt, I should add a 55 mile day, ~40 temps, can be done using just over half a gallon:

Use ‘hold’, run engine for .1 gallon, toast the cabin, go back to EV mode and switch climate to a/c defrost by putting the temperature setting all the way down. With only a little fan speed on the windshield, the cabin stays warm for a ~20 mile trip, and the windshield will stay fairly clear.

Rince, lather, repeat on the way home, at night.

koz

This is great for enthusiasts but GM shoud add a setting to make this easier to accomplish. Perhaps a prompt, “cold temp, woyld you like to omptimize for drive greater than 20 miles?”

pjwood

ERDTLT or engine run due to low temps, does automate some of this, but only below 36F.

I run 220/20A now, but my circuit breaker box is full up, no more spare slots to put in another circuit for another EVSE. Though from an electrical standpoint, I do have the room for another 220V/20A circuit.

I don’t want to spend the $$$ for a new circuit breaker box with more slots or a sub-panel. We could charge her at 110V in the garage, but its less convenient.

And lets face it, after about a month she’ll take my spot next to the 220V and I’ll be the one charging on 110V. 😉

Bill Howland

Anthony, usually a breaker box changeout is not required in your situation. If the service size is adequate, and the 2 cars are in the same location, than it is NEVER required, although you might have to rerun a cable, but even that’s extreme.

Which service panel do you have assuming you have just the one? Assuming you have a main circuit breaker, what is its rating, and are we talking about:
1). Square – D QO
2). Square – D Homeline
3). Square – D Triliant
4). GE
5). Zinsco
6). ITE – Bulldog
7). Siemens
8). Murray
9). Eaton Cutler-Hammer (CH)
10).Eaton Bryant (BR)

All those names accept mini breakers, even the CH. For those panels if you purchase 2 double mini’s you’ll free up 2 spaces for an additional 20 amp double pole that a second evse for the second volt would use.

ziv

Any reason you didn’t include my homes Federal Pacific Stab-Lok in your short list of breaker panels?
🙂

Bill Howland

You’re absolutely right FP stab locks were in my childhood house. and those always came in mini single pole versions also.

They were replaced by the “Challenger” brand. (Yuck!!!)

People used to complain the FP breakers would develop bad connections, but in my experience I’ve never seen a stab go bad myself.

Challenger, which supposedly replaced the bankrupt Federal/Pacific (surprising no relation to the Federal Pacific Large transformer company which is still ongoing), I have had several panel buses, and breakers melt on me, and know of several other electricians who’ve experienced the same thing, ESPECIALLY in electrically heated homes, where the loads are heavy and maintained (rather like EV HOMES).

Bill Howland

err… Confused, and Surprisingly

(its funny that I think of the adverb in my head but type the adjective).

Anyway Anthony, tell us what you currently have in your home, and what wiring is going to EVSE, and perhaps some of us could make a low cost or No Cost solution since you seem to want 2 evses if u have 2 evs.

Do you do the work yourself or have it professionally installed?

Stephen

Are you sure you need a new box? I thought the same. My electrician just rearranged a couple of circuits to be more efficiently distributed and voila I had a 240V circuit for my EVSE in the garage.

no comment

it’s hard to say without actually seeing the vehicle, but i’m pleased with the 2012 Volt that i currently have so i am not looking to replace it. if GM actually could do a 100 mile EREV it seems to me that it would be better to put that capability in a next generation ELR. for the Volt, i think that cost reduction is more important than 2+ fold increases in EV range.

CherylG's_DirtyLittleSecret

Is that a Red Eject button on the dash?

Stuart22

Hi Static

Bill Howland

The volt is safer than any car you drive CherylG, no wonder you’re envious of an eject button since your car needs it more than a volt!

FOr your information I find the VOlt quite roomy for 4 people. Of course, none of us is “Gravity Challenged”.

ziv

Bill, as of about 6 months ago, not one person has ever died in a Chevy Volt accident. That is pretty amazing, especially when you see the photos of the car that got run over by school bus or the one that rolled off an embankment, and their drivers both walked away.

ModernMarvelFan

Someone just died recently?

ziv

I hope no one has died in the past 6 months, but that was the last time I saw a GM person mention the perfect safety aspect with regards to no traffic fatalities.

Bill Howland

Ziv, my point exactly.

Basic points going forward:

The volt is an exceptional value, and a highly prized ELECTRIC car.

Yesterday there was a post by DONC stating his Leaf was down to the almost the electric range of my VOLT.

Such longevity out of a GM vehicle is almost unheard of.

People can complain it charges slowly, or there isn’t enough space, but at least it does charge reliably.

NO wonder Volt owners in general are so satisfied.

Hopefully the new Volt will be at least as good.

no comment

with its thick pillars, i would think that the Volt would be one of the safer cars on the market in a rollover accident. the drawback is that the pillars limit visibility.

David Murray

You know. If the new Volt has 50 or 60 miles of Range. How is that going to make Ford’s Energi products look? Especially if the Volt gets any sort of price cut over the current model. Ford will really have to do some engineering work to catch up. Of course all of those 10-15 mile PHEVs will really look like a joke.

liberty

I think higher volt sales will pull more ford energi sales, especially with low gas prices. Back seat and cargo room are much bigger in the c-max. Most people want a 4 door sedan and may choose the energi. Higher numbers of phev may draw the early majority over the early adopters. All 3 cars are quite different. The loser is the prius phv, which doesn’t get an update for 2 years.

Stan

” Back seat and cargo room are much bigger in the c-max.”

It may look bigger but most of the space is unusable due to very uneven loading floor. I tested both with the same set of luggage, boxes ..

ModernMarvelFan

Exactly!

Unless you have a narrow/tall box, it won’t fit in the Energi. Volt will fit a nice square box.

SIvad

Apart from the range the Fusion Energi will really look unappealing if the Volt gets even more cargo space under the hatch to the Fusion Energi’s 8.2 cu.ft. trunk.

One would have to choose the Fusion Energi over the Volt for just the extra legroom in the back seat vs. better EV range and performance with more cargo space and a lower price.

QCO

Yes, GM is definitely pushing deeper into the “EREV” territory, whilst the Energi models (and many others) are really just hybrids with a bigger battery. The electric mode on the Energi isn’t that useful since the engine starts when you put your foot down, no matter how full the battery. Ford has to be thinking about plan B.

It’s starting to look like the three bears story: The Energi is too much gas and the i3 REx is too much electricity, whereas the Volt is just right for North American driving tastes.

Stuart22

I like this 3 bears analogy. It can also be used when styling is considered – the Energi is too similar to the ICE Fusion, the i3 BMW is too bizarre to be seen in, the v.2 Volt will have its own contemporary design that will draw thumbs-up attention in a crowded world.

bro1999

Not exactly true. I own a C-Max Energi (along with a Volt). The C-Max has an ‘EV Now’ mode that will prevent the ICE from switching on until the HV battery’s usable charge is depleted (19 official EPA EV miles). However, even in EV Now mode, the ICE can still switch on in the C-Max (too low ambient temperature, turning on the defroster, etc…).

SIvad

Of course the EV now mode will take 16 sec. to get up to 60.

bro1999

That is true….though 0-30 is not that bad. It’s the 30-60 that is killer (slow).

pjwood

i3 REx = too little ICE (range, etc), not “too much electricity”.

’round these parts, there ain’t no such thing 😉

James

The old, “stuff batteries into the trunk” ploy of playing catch-up to other companies that have proprietary products designed from the ground up to contain batteries close to the ground will never fly.

Compliance is an ugly word in the BEV world, Ford will have to fish or cut bait. I looked at C-Max Energi ( Name Too Long Dept. ) and couldn’t believe how much storage space was compromised to stuff in 20 miles of battry pack!

It’s still my belief that Volt v.2 could be the last version unless GM truly markets the car vs. Prius and other hybrids of lesser ilk. If they do this – Volt has a fighting chance to make it to v.3. Volt will now be so superior to anything anyone else builds to save on gas, that the collective public will have to take notice – not just us EV nerds.

ModernMarvelFan

“It’s still my belief that Volt v.2 could be the last version unless GM truly markets the car vs. Prius and other hybrids of lesser ilk”

Doesn’t matter if GM markets it or NOT, the conservatives and BEV purists will continue to attack it until it is dead.

Then Conservatives will proclaim that nobody wants to buy an electric/green car and BEV purist will proclaim that Nobody wants an electric car with an engine.

Both are extremist views that will over cloud the importantance and benefit of the Volt.

pjwood

Politics and purists? Nah, gas prices.

ModernMarvelFan

Gas price has some effect, but in the past, the politcal bashing or claimed fire risks or lack of state incentives made bigger impact on sales.

koz

While there is some truth to the extemist view issues, that is lame excuse for GM to duck behind. GM is a big target and will always have people gunning for them. They need to find a way to overcome those issues and others, such as those that simply will not consider a Chevy. The Volt is too good of a car for those excuses to excuse its sales. If Nisaan can sell 25k Leafs, Toyota can sell 120k Prii, then 45k Volts could be sold. Just not by Chevy and its current management.

Stuart22

If the v.2 Volt can outperform a 3 series BMW, it should aim for that target. Position it as the car Toyota wishes the Prius could be but never will.

koz

+100

cab

Interesting comment about the tire noise. I just rode 200 miles round trip in my leased Volt in the backseat and noted the road noise. I thought that if it wasn’t leased, I would have pulled the panels and laid a bunch of noise absorbing mat down by now. As an aside, this was in Texas with our noisy concrete freeways. Those with blacktop are often much more quiet.

Loboc

I’ve always thought the tire noise was way too high even for a hatch. Especially on Texas concrete.

Stuart22

That’s easy to do, considering how quiet it is without the engine noise. Part of my effort to avoid going into CS mode is to not have to listen to the droning of the ICE. Some days however I just have to grit my teeth and watch the numbers fall.

no comment

you could probably reduce the tire noise by going to softer tires and using lower tire pressure. this will likely cost you a few miles in EV range, though.

Tesla Fan

that music is annoying

kubel

Agreed. They are trying to sensationalize two men driving in a parking lot.