Tesla Faces New False Advertising Lawsuit In Norway

JAN 13 2018 BY DOMENICK YONEY 46

They’re back! The lawyers, that is.

A little more than a year ago, Tesla settled a lawsuit filed on behalf of a group of Model S P85D owners in Norway who sought damages because the rated power advertised by Tesla seemingly overstated the output of the drivetrain. Tesla had said the cars had 691 horsepower — 467 from the rear motor and 224 from the front — however, that was the output potential of the motors. The amount of power produced from the battery pack was somewhat less. It seems like a technical point, though certainly not a good marketing strategy,  since the actual performance of the vehicles was still in line with Tesla’s performance claims. Still, a court sided with the 133 complainants and Tesla eventually settled, offering $7,700 in cash or upgrades.

Tesla Model S Ludicrous P85D badging.

Done and dusted then, right? Nope. Now, an additional 80 owners have come forward seeking a similar settlement. Lawyer Christoffer Falkeid, who represents this new group, says, “It’s the same kind of case that ended up in a compromise the last time,” adding, “It’s about the power of the car and the mistakes in marketing and in the sales process but I do not want to go into amounts.”

Apparently, the group’s representative is attempting to arrange a settlement of some (unstated) amount. However, if no agreement is made before then, a civil court in Oslo will hear the case in April.

Even with an agreement or court ordered settlement, the affair may not yet be finished for the electric car maker. The AFP cites the Norwegian press to say that there is yet another group of 32 owners who filed a similar suit just this past autumn. All told, the Model S P85D 245 owners involved in the original action and the other following lawsuits make up about 20 percent of the 1,201 people who bought this particular Model S.

Norway is a great market for electric vehicles in general, and Tesla has sold over 8,465 various vehicles there to date. Despite, this litigation, it is sure to continue its efforts in the Scandinavian country.

Source: AFP

Categories: Tesla

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46 Comments on "Tesla Faces New False Advertising Lawsuit In Norway"

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Marius

If I were the representative of Tesla I d say ok, you don’t like the car we’ll buy them back, at market value but you are all going on a black list and will no longer be allowed to buy from us. I think these people are genuinely satisfied with their cars but found a door way to get a discount and are taking advantage of it. If their problem is sticker said a max possible output, then they should dyno their ice cars, most of them after 50-100k miles lose 10-20% power.

Ben

Thats why you are not a represantative. Your company would run out of customers within days. Consider the PR disaster. The hardware of a Model S maybe costs 30-35k $ for Tesla MS. Even if you pay them 7k $ for false advertising, it is still good to have them as a customer.

Nevertheless Teslas rating of power has clearly been fraud in my opinion. You can not simply add up numbers, if you know that they are limited by other components.

pjwood1

+1
Dominick, This was not a “technical” issue. Tesla miss lead with “691 motor power”. This wasn’t illegal, but was in Norwegian marketing, where actual 691hp output was claimed by the company. Either way, bad ethics, in my opinion

The P85D output was later revised almost 200hp lower, by Tesla. I’m sure you wouldn’t judge this a small miss, would you?

Now, there are the Model 3 headliners. Like a bad EBay listing, customers ordered to an image of alcantara, and got textile. Has Tesla learned?

Serial anti Tesla troll Thomas

That’s nothing else than VW did with their Diesel: cheating. So Tesla has to buy them all back!!!!

Lawrence

What Emissions regulation did Tesla violate? Far from the same. The governments required compliance with a explicit rule and regulation in order for a diesel vehicle to operate within their jurisdiction. The cheating meant that those engines did not comply.

L'amata

YES! screw those Parasitic cry babies!

Peter

Some people are just stupid.
You can meet this kind in every country.
But maybe they are over represented in Norway ?

Roy_H

Has Tesla down rated the advertised power? If not this is only going to spread and get worse.

philip d

They have performance listed accurately. They never even claimed any total combined hp number for maximum operational output.

They simply listed each motor’s individual maximum achievable hp output. This could be a legitimate issue if no performance specs were ever given and the customer based their purchase only on adding the two motors’ maximum theoretical output not knowing that the unlisted actual motors’ combined hp output during operation would be lower.

But this is not what happened. Tesla never lied about operational output since it was never listed. And they did list the correct performance.

Elooney Muskey

Tesla DID claim 691 hp when P85D was launched. But of course, like many things Elon says, Tesla had to back peddle and has rmeoved all hop numbers since they got hit by Norway lawsuit.
Tesla should compensate all the P85D buyers in ALL countries. But the US Tesla shareholders appear too mellow to file a class action.

Magnus H

Tesla hype meets strong consumer protection. Which side are you on?

philip d

If someone sold you a car, any car, advertised with a 0-60 time of 4 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 13 seconds with 2,000 hp and you took it to a drag strip and found that it indeed did hit 60 in 4 seconds and the quarter mile in 13 seconds would you really care if you found out later that the 2000 hp was not accurate? And would you sue over it?

If your answer yes then you are part of the problem of our over litigious society.

Tesla never claimed the car had that output in hp, they only listed the maximum rating in hp of the front and rear motors.

Magnus H

So, you’re on the Tesla side.

philip d

Yes. Because they delivered exactly the performance promised. Hp is meaningless if you already know the performance numbers.

Mark.ca

Tesla need to pay up and change the ad numbers. There is nothing to discuss here.

eltosho

The world is full of idiots! I bet most of those people don’t even know what the HP of a car is. If the car has an acceleration and top speed as advertised, then they have no reason to whine! The max HP is just a number on paper that has almost no meaning for the actual performance of the car!

DJ

Then perhaps if it doesn’t matter Tesla should have released the correct specs? I think it’s lame that people are doing this but it isn’t the consumers responsibility to make sure their claims are accurate.

Personally I’m surprised that there haven’t been many about the battery pack size and how you don’t actually have 85 (or whatever) to use.

L'amata

YES! Horsepower came from horse & buggy transition to clunker piston technology,120 + yrs Ago.. it’s ancient & meaningless today .

Dan

NO! horsepower is a word, which old in origin has a clear meaning: 550 ft.lb./sec or 760 watts.

Bill Howland

550 ft-pounds/second or 760 watts.

Close: 746 watts if US, 736 if Germain ‘pony power’.

Europeans may feel ‘horsepower’ is an outdated term, but it is not outdated here.

My father was an ‘extreme’ advocate of the Metric system, but I never cared for it.

The old english system had units that related to everyday objects that every one is familiar with.

For instance, 14.7 pounds/square inch I can fully visualize(atm pressure at sea level), because I can visualize what one pound is, and what one square inch is . Not quite sure how to visualize 101,000 pascals.

In the states we do use the metric system for time, and electric units – however we can easily convert them back to heat using 3.413 British Thermal units per watt (which is one joule-second), and use ‘co-efficient of performance’ or EER for refrigeration applications.

George Parrott

The badge photo you are using is an UPGRADED P85D to LUDICROUS, by the way as signed by the bar underneath.

Roy_H

I wonder if Tesla could just send a software upgrade allowing higher power? This is essentially what Ludicrous is. The problem is potential reduced battery life, but for those customers in Norway, it might be worth it.

John Doe

I think the problem was that the batteries could not deliver enough power to the motors.
If they could change software and fix it, I’m sure they would have done that.

I kind of agree with buying back the cars, and just sell them to somebody else.
Then they can but another EV. Back when they complained the first time, there was very little to choose from. I’m sure they would have loved the little egg from Mitsubishi ?
Even now there is no real competition.
But of course Tesla has to follow all the marketing rules, like everybody else. They are not that complicated. A stort version would be: Illegal to advertise directly to kids, illegal to advertise for alcohol and tobacco products, facts stated in ads must be correct.

. . But come on.. The performance numbers was correct.

terminaltrip421

this sounds like a good problem to have; motors so powerful they’re currently limited by a battery’s output. I would think it would bode well for the longevity of the motors as well.

And Tesla did the same thing misleading teh public advertising Roadster 2.0 HP/torque specs. You’d think they would have learned. NOPE!

Chris O

In the end Tesla tends to actually overdeliver on the whole point of horsepower: performance.

Marked contrast with GM that promised 90 miles in 30 minutes charging for Bolt but conveniently left out how it takes non existent 80KW chargers to get to even that pathetic performance.

That’s what I call underdelivering.

CarGuy

It seems they learned their lesson. All the Model 3 numbers are under stated. Some people are complaining about that. Some times i think Tesla can’t win regardless of what they do. Of course this website doesn’t cover overstated horse power for gas cars, which is not uncommon.

Chris O

There would actually be something to see here if Tesla didn’t deliver on performance specs. In fact it tends to over-deliver on those so people get the promised performance and more. So basically they are complaining that it doesn’t take enough horsepower to deliver on that performance.

Pretty bizarre.

CarGuy

Good points.

philip d

If a car company sold me a car with a listed 0-60 time of 2 seconds with 50 hp and 20 lb-ft of torque and it indeed hit 60 in 2 seconds I could care less that the specs were wrong.

The point being performance and hp have some relationship but vary wildly from car to car based on power to weight ratios and torque.

So to get all worked up about hp numbers being wrong even though performance is accurate is ridiculous.

philip d
So they underdelivered on the promised actual performance then? No, they didn’t. So tell me what would the expected 0-60 performance be for a car with say 500 hp? Give me an accurate answer without knowing anything else about weight or torque. Obviously you can’t. You can’t answer that because hp is meaningless by itself. Especually if you have already been told the accurate performance numbers. Now you would have a point if the car was listed with only hp, torque and curb weight and didn’t list any expected performance numbers. Then the customer would have to do complicated math to estimate the expected performance. If the company then misrepresents the hp the customer will get a car with less performance than advertised. In this case they were getting exactly the car performance that was advertised. I think this is a frivolous suit brought about by a bunch of baby customers who were upset that they couldn’t brag to their friends that their car doesn’t have a bizzilion hp like it said on the piece of paper even if it met the performance listed on that piece of paper and also confirmed by every single auto review. In fact most… Read more »
Mikael

Only an idiot would argue for Tesla in this case.

First of all, we are talking Norway not the US. In Norway suing is not easy, common or something that people want to do.
The only time that happens is when a company actually has done something wrong, and generally had a number of complaints and time to correct the mistake.

We are talking about a case where the advertising clearly and without doubt has been false and misleading. We are talking about a company blatantly lying to it’s (potential) customers.

When corporations do wrong they should get punished in a reasonable way and make sure that they don’t do the same mistake again.

Just because they are one of our favorite companies and because the produce EVs they still have to comply to very simple and logical things like not lying in advertising.

Mark.ca

+1
The S is one of the greatest cars ever made by anyone…no need for Tesla to pump up numbers.

philip d

Misleading maybe yes. Blantent lying no.

Blatent lying would be if they listed a combined operational hp output that was false which they didn’t.

Misleading would be if they listed each motor’s individual capable hp output seperately instead of listing their combined operational output with the specific battery pack choice AND didn’t list accurate performance specs.

So it could be argued that they may have been misleading with overall hp output if a customer wasn’t versed in EV drivetrains. But since they were dead on with the performance specs the misleading claim loses its weight.

mr. m

combined overall hp was listed in norway. no engine rating. why should a customer know that a underlying system prevents this hp.

Mikael

You are trying to spin it into something it’s not. It’s blatantly lying, nothing less and nothing more.

But hopefully they will learn and do it right the next time around.

Another Euro point of view

+1, if Tesla carries on like this they could form a club with VW.

Some Guy

One should check if the additional lawsuits arose after media coverage of the success of the first one. This might convince opportunistic people (who were perfectly fine with it before or did not care at all) to lawyer up in order to make a quick profit.
As the performance specs were met, where is the problem? This is as ridiculous as sueing a tobacco company for being still alive after smoking a pack which had the mandatory label “smoking kills” on the box. Or that guy who complained about not getting wings after he drank a Red Bull soda.

MikeM

There’s a lot of silliness attached to this non-issue !
Permit me to add to the noise:

Power is proportional to Torque X RPM.
In a single-gear EV, with a flattish torque vs. speed curve, the delivered horsepower
will rise linearly (sort of) with speed until peaking as the motor(s) and battery run
out of oomph (sorry – technical term).

Guess what? (and I too am guessing a bit here):
The Model SxxxD, will reach peak HP (the purported spec. number) at a speed rarely, if ever, experienced by any of the litigants in real life.
That’s how irrelevant this issue is.

So some careless, or uninformed marketing dweeb added two values together end came up
with the wrong irrelevant number.

So let’s all pile on! Maybe we can find a lawyer as dumb as we are!

This is the sort of thing I’ve come to expect here in the U.S. of A. But it’s actually a bit shocking coming from a supposed haven of sanity like Scandinavia.
I wish judges would be a bit more circumspect in technical matters and enlist some engineering advice.

Grrrr!

Johnson

“Guess what? (and I too am guessing a bit here):
The Model SxxxD, will reach peak HP (the purported spec. number) at a speed rarely, if ever, experienced by any of the litigants in real life.” – MikeM

Wrong Guess. The original P85D reaches peak power at ~40mph:

http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-p85d-shocks-the-dyno-with-864-ft-lbs-of-torque

Also Model X P100D Ludicrous reaches it’s peak power (573kw) at around 48mph:

http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-x-100d-performance-testing

Infact, since you seem to like math:

Power = Work/Time = (F * D) / t = (F) * (d/t) = (M * A) * (V) = Mass * Acceleration * Speed

Take a model S (2200kg), at maximum acceleration allowed by the tire grip (1.1g = 10.8 m/s/s ), to maintain this acceleration at 80mph (35.7m/s) [top reasonable speed] would require:
2200 * 10.8 * 35.7 = 848000w = 848kw = 1,130HP

Jason

If the judge made the ruling, one would hope that both sides got to state their case. If Tesla couldn’t convince the judge that what they claimed was correct and the buyers misunderstood that, or if Tesla accepted their advertising broke the rules and corrected it, that really is all there is to it. What is interesting is that other people, who might have seen the result, have now come out with their claim. It might never end, interesting that the original claim didn’t have a time frame for anyone with this grievance to come forward or forever hold their peace.

Get Real

Curt C. Richerund

TROLL!

Donald Beck

This is a stupid argument.. any gear head knows that ICE cars the rated horse power is at the crank shaft the horse power at the tires is a lot less. Are we lining up to sue them too.

Bill Howland

Seems like the litigants against Tesla have their work cut out of them in this instance:

This seems like such a ‘little white lie’ to me, that all advertisers do, that I’d think that any judge would ask:

“How have you been materially harmed?”.

Its rather when Tesla says the “S” charges at 10 kw or 20 kw at home.

The number of homes where the charging rate is precisely this are few indeed. So its a little white lie, but most don’t care.

Not worth suing them over.