Lutz On Tesla: Deliveries Aren’t Necessarily Money-Generating Sales

OCT 2 2018 BY MARK KANE 167

Humor us some more, Mr. Bob Lutz.

Bob Lutz, former vice chairman of GM, in his most recent CNBC discussion on Tesla’s production and delivery results in Q3, surprised us a little bit… by how far off his analysis and understanding of production and deliveries numbers actually are.

We are a little sad that Bob Lutz is trying to convince the general public that because Tesla doesn’t have dealers, delivery numbers are not necessarily sales that generate money – “The cars remain in the Tesla system” and on how the company is so different from the rest of the automotive industry. Bob Lutz undermines his own credibility, but well, that will not stop Tesla.

Tesla reports deliveries as sales:

“Our delivery count should be viewed as slightly conservative, as we only count a car as delivered if it is transferred to the customer and all paperwork is correct. Final numbers could vary by up to 0.5%.”

Well, Tesla’s sales number are, in fact, different from the automotive industry – simply because they are growing like crazy and the Tesla Model 3 happens to be one of the best-selling cars in North America, at a time when cars are losing popularity.

Further into the discussion it gets more reasonable as even Bob Lutz notices it’s improving financially for Tesla (“may not lose as much cash in third quarter” or even achieve some modest profit). However, scepticism about Tesla’s unique battery or other technologies remains unchanged.

Lutz expects that soon other manufacturers will be selling long-range electric cars, comparably as good and with the ability to sell them at a loss to fulfill emission requirements (as these EVs will be just a small part of their business). But selling any product at a loss is not a wise business strategy, regardless of volume or percentages.

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167 Comments on "Lutz On Tesla: Deliveries Aren’t Necessarily Money-Generating Sales"

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TM3x2 Chris

You know what they say about old dog and new tricks…

Get Real

Well if he is speaking about VIA Motors he might have a point!

When it comes to Tesla, Bob is just a bitter old man watching the world and a new generation pass him by.


That “reporter” has to have known that in the case of Tesla, deliveries are final sales. Why wouldn’t she correct the doddering old fool? Would he still come on if someone called him on his ignorance? — Finally listened to the whole thing. He was corrected at the end.

Ron M

Just like Trump facts never stopped him from saying it’s a lie.


Trump is the first of a new generation of Republicans that aren’t in on the joke about Fox News. Previous Repubs knew it was a distortion of reality. Trump dumb enough to believe, with no quotes around “believe”.

Al Sadanaga

They actually did a little after he made the statement, he just sat there silent and looking stupid.


The reporter actually correct him by saying “deliveries mean in customer’s hands”.. but only after he still was able to spread the Lutz FUDz.


Tesla’s “unique batteries” — Made by Panasonic.
Sure, Bob, now denigrate Panasonic, sure, they don’t know what their doing either.
Only You Bob, only you are the Expert.
— Via Motors.


Tesla design their batteries but manufacture by Pana


I’m starting to suspect that Bob Lutz died and this is a Bob Lutz animatronic programmed by Jim Chanos.


Bob Nutz’s sell at a loss mentality is probably what made GM go bankrupt. A company VP suggesting to sell one model at a loss because another model would compensate can’t possibly be a good long term philosophy.

Volt#671 + BoltEV + Model 3


That’s a tactic used to put smaller companies out of business. It’s interesting that Lutz would even suggest using such an immoral practice.


It beats, in his mind, building a factory, a GigaFactory, with the lowest battery cost in the world.
See, if we cheat, we can do it cheaper, unless they whip us out of business.


Oh, I think poor old, irrelevant Bob would be well versed in immoral practices. It’s so much part of his operating system that he’s incapable of comprehending that anyone (e.g. Tesla/Elon Musk) would consider morality a valid business concept. Hence his complete inability to even begin to understand Tesla’s successes.


Nelson, That’s The BIG 3 Way of Doing Smart Business ! Lose it All & Go Cry To The Government for more Bailout Money With The EXCUSE That They Will Create More Jobs That Will Eventually FAIL Anyway ! … Col .

Paul Smith

Bob’s logic. Sell at a loss and make it up in volume.


He is so out of touch its incredible. As far as anyone can tell Tesla manufactures to order. They still have at least a hundred thousand back ordered cars which means whatever they produce is most definitely going to someone who has paid for the car. They don’t have to have inventory sitting around on dealership lots to sell. What is wrong with him?

GM doesn’t have inventory lying around, Tesla does, obviously they do not build to order but in batches and match you up some time later. That said, for the amount of sales ,Tesla has only a few weeks of inventory, and is doing fantastic with increases in production in sales. It was funny that Lutz was confused about what Tesla considered a delivery, they have to actually sell the car and deliver it. He’s was also wrong about the batteries, which may be similar,but Tesla delivers a better system, with its software, and they are grinding costs down with the GF. Other makers will make EV’s but,so far, they do not seem to be catching up, but may be falling a little further behind. Lets see if Tesla can make 5K a week which they had guided for last December then delayed it twice and still have not managed inspire of promising to ramp right up to 10K. The 4th Q should be even better, maybe they make and sell65K 3’s,at very high prices, so far the average is $60K which if they post a loss in the Q3 would not look good. Shareholders .however .would instantly forgive them.

That was a “based on order config” stunt they pulled. They will likely do maybe 5-10% predictive builds, but basic black short range battery, cloth interior (whatever the $35k one turns out to be) will probably be made in great number. Original brown Model S paint color? not so much.


GM doesn’t have inventory lying around? Do a Google image search for “GM car dealers”. Their dealers have quite a bit of inventory lying around, all over the country.


But the dealers are not GM. The dealers buy cars from GM.


Paid to be wrong.
— Jimmy Chanos.


It is also really entertaining. Irrelevant, wrong, and clearly in denial, I find it cute that he exists. Like a Sesame Street character. 100% comedy. I hope he lives a very long time and continues to inspire laughter for at least one more generation. To your health, Mr. Lutz!


What irks me about these dinosaurs is they are in positions of power purely because of the old school tie network, they don’t merit being in their jobs one iota and it’s a worldwide problem sadly. It’s not what you know it’s all about who you know that gets them in these jobs. I hope the new guard like Musk who has innovation & technology foresight can confine these old idiots to history.

Anthony Fiti

As pointed out in this article, the PR literally says “we only count a car as delivered if it is transferred to the customer and all paperwork is correct” so the entire content of this interview is incomprehensible gibberish. So a delivery is, in fact, a delivery to the customer and money changing hands.


Putz should never been allowed to speak authoritatively about TSLA. They let him ramble on and laugh as he makes obviously false statements. That’s not journalism.


Lutz is senile and has been for a couple of years now; he can’t speak authoritatively about anything.
He should be in a nursing home playing shuffleboard or Rummikub.


That’s What They Think is, “Entertainment”


Exactly. It’s painfully obvious that CNBC is practicing “infotainment” here, not journalism.

The “fourth estate” has been granted a lot of power by the U.S. Constitution guaranteeing freedom of the press.

Perhaps too much power. To quote Spider-Man comics: “With great power comes great responsibility.” All too many news organizations, CNBC included, are showing an appalling lack of responsibility about what they show or print.

If news organizations refuse to exercise responsibility, then maybe some of their power should be restricted. Something to think about, anyway.

Eric Cote

Actually if you listen to the whole interview, he does have some positive things to say about Tesla. He just had some bad “bookends” on the whole thing (the bad intel on deliveries at the front of the interview, and the implication that Tesla can only sell at a loss on the back end of the interview because that’s what other automakers do).

I actually think his biggest fallacy is assuming that because the technology has no secret sauce, that Tesla cannot succeed. He doesn’t really state this but seems to imply that Tesla is nothing special because of there’s no secret sauce: Li-Ion batteries and motors etc. are essentially commodities, and he’s not wrong about them being commodities. But if he really thinks that means there’s nothing special to Tesla because of this, then he is vastly underestimating the power of a strong brand name. The FANG stocks are great proof of the power of a strong brand, as are several others.

Yves Laurin

I just can’t believe the guy, he his probably the guy that also told that global warming does not exist, it’s only big rock falling into the see


Yes, Bob is a climate change denier.

Ron M

Well after the mid terms Trump will need some new cabinet members. Putz is stupid enough for Trump to hire
Not sure he will kiss a++ enough for Trumps liking.


Somebody should tell this person to just Shut up.
Everybody knows he talks nonsense and he is very bitter about Tesla to the point that he doesn’t mind making himself look silly (add any other adjective) in his talks.


Let him ramble – it is everyone’s right. Just don’t report it on InsideEV or anywhere else.


They put it on because it’s on CNBC, which is the dumbest of all the NBC’s.


Actually I believe MSNBC holds that title.


Baghdad Bob Lutz.


Comical Ali Syndrome


In his case, it’s Comical Oily.

IEVs, stop giving him coverage!


No they don’t. Have proof?


I think it’s funny to hear from Baghdad Bob Lutz.


What I don’t love is getting notifications on my phone, distracting me while I drive, that there is a new article on InsideEVs… and when I check it, it turns out to be “let’s laugh at the guy who is wrong about something” crap like this.


Well, to be fair, his track record of being wrong is IMPRESSIVE.


You do have to hand it to him on his impressive “track record”!


You shouldn’t have notifications on your phone that make you check it while you drive.


Bingo !


Yes, the real problem is someone checking their phone while driving… not IEVs posting another “Let’s all laugh at Dinosaur Bob” article.


Then silence your phone and focus on driving. Good Lord.


Easy problem to solve. Turn off the phone notifications.


Bob is a good laugh. Anyone with an IQ of 80 or above is smarter!


Bob is the balance to those horrible evannex articles.

Get Real

In your abby-normal mind maybe.

Since when you need balance anyway?


The Force is weak in this one.


Seriously, IEVs ought to quit giving this guy attention. He doesn’t deserve it any longer.


I-Pace, not E-Pace is the all-electric edition …
Bob Lutz needs to work on his facts before commenting.


And they’re making them in the dozens…


LOL. He actually thinks the Jag, Audi and MB have 300 miles or range.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Highest confidence, least informed “expert” in the industry.

Some Guy

That poor old man. It seems that somebody in his nursing home stole his meds and replaced them with tic-tacs. No wonder he is getting off the rails ever so often. It is a shame how society sometimes treats the elderly nowadays.


If they get him back in time, Hester was going to finish telling him about the time she found a quarter.


“Our delivery count should be viewed as slightly conservative, as we only count a car as delivered if it is transferred to the customer and all paperwork is correct.” Its right there in the press release that you claim you read Bob.


…and Carl Quintanilla corrected him

Eric Cote

I think Bob’s point was that, by what Tesla is stating, correct paperwork and transfer to customer is not cash in hand like it is with a dealer network, because the dealer network pays GM for that car immediately. So some of his data isn’t entirely garbage, but other parts are and the conclusions he draws are invalid.


Starts to sound like a mumbling idiot.

Sorry, Bob, your achievement.

Peter Thorsen

I think he gave a fairly balanced assesment of Teslas situation, he probably just didn’t know exactly Teslas definition of delivered.
I think he is sceptical but trying to be objective – given his background of course. And compared to earlier predictions it sounded like he is turning around a bit.
It is true what he says, that most of what Tesla does, the others can also do.

But the question is whether they do it, the actual execution


He’s quoted every frickin’ quarter about Tesla. How can he not know how they count sales?

The guy’s an idiot.


Why is he always wrong? He a paid monkey reading a script.
His time is valuable, he only says what he’s paid to say.
That’s why you know he’s not a consultant, he’s a paid troll.

Peter Thorsen

He’s been an executive of both Ford, Chrysler and General motors, so he probably has more brains than most of the commenters here. He has even been a proponent of electrified propulsion (look up Chevy Volt), but of course far less ambitious than Tesla and he is quite ‘old school’. He also thinks Model S is a great car, so things are a bit more complex if one dig a bit deeper than just a video or two.

I am saying this as a Model S owner and TSLA stock holder. I believe in Teslas products and mission, but the simplemindesness of most comments here makes me a bit sad.

Paul Smith

Saying he was an executive at Ford, GM and Chrysler doesn’t mean he was good.


Don’t forget Via Motors, is it dead yet?
Lutz seems to have gone out of his way to prove you can’t make and sell a hybrid pickup truck. Just like the big 3 would like the world to believe.

When he talks about the Corvette he’s an expert.
When he talks about Tesla he has an 8 year track record of failure.
If everyone “could” do what Tesla is doing, than, why isn’t anyone.
if they’re not doing it, then they can’t do it.
And GM and Ford have heavy debt loads too, meaning, maybe they actually can’t financially compete with Tesla.


“Don’t forget Via Motors, is it dead yet?”

No, but I don’t know why. Just like Faraday Future, investors must be constantly pumping money in to prop up the undead body.


If you think we need to be told that Bob is responsible for getting GM to put the Volt into production… well, you’ve already shown you have a lot to learn about the EV industry and those who regularly comment here.

But that was Bob’s achievement a decade ago. Sadly, over the past few years he has become increasingly out of touch… rather like your comments here. Hopefully your thinking isn’t as fossilized as his.

Eric Cote

If you listen carefully, he was referring to the payment aspect. And I don’t think what he said there is incorrect. But he’s definitely got some opinions I disagree with.


“I think he gave a fairly balanced assesment of Teslas situation…”

You must be new here. Stick around, you’ll learn better.


Have to start calling him back-peddling Bob.
Yes, Tesla is still headed to the graveyard, but only to lay a wreath at gravestone of the ICE.


The hearse that takes him to his final resting place will be ICE powered, but his relatives will all be driving Teslas.

Tony Marco

It’s sad to see from what Bob Lutz used to mean in the car biz to what he now has become…..knowledge and facts mean nothing!


Bob Nuts

You misspelled his name…it’s Bob Nutz.


“Boob Putz”


Bob Lutz is a loser from bankrupt GM. That dude has no idea the world has moved onto online. A part Koch Brother funded and part inspired by Trump, Lutz the loser believes internal combustion engine is the way to go. Detroit bless him.


Que imbecil que es este viejo amargado


Just because Bob’s lights are on, it doesn’t mean anyone is home.


I was just wondering when the other car companies were going to step up the plate. It seems that the Volt, Bolt, Prime, Clarity PHEV and Leaf sales seem to be stuck in the 1500-2500/month level. And when are they going to take off, Mr Lutz? Meanwhile, Tesla had 30,000 between their three models.


They will join the party when they have less to lose by building EVs than ICEs. In the minds of Big Auto, they weren’t counting on someone making a compelling EV that buyers would line up 400K deep for. Kia should be given kudos for making some EV models that people will want to buy. BMW, GM and the rest of them will find out that making EVs are hard and you can’t just show up late to the party with your entourage and expect that we’ll all gather around you, because you aren’t the cool kids.


“Same amount of energy per kilowatt hour?” Why does this moron continue to get quoted?

Lisa Padgett

Bob needs a few hours with Autopilot and V9. Done.


Looks like someone needs to take Grandpa’s keys away from him. He’s talking about Tesla.


Cars don’t leave the Tesla factory (which I assume includes parking lots that they’re stored in) until the customer (or the customer’s bank) has wired payment in full to Tesla.

If Bob Lutz actually tried to buy a Tesla he would find this out.


Not true but they are counted as sales then either. Lutz is a cornucopia of inaccuracy.

Howard Marks

LUTZ is so full of BS….the batteries are NOT the same. Lutz understands nothing about battery chemistry. TESLA batteries are way more powerful than any of the rest. Case in point the JAGUAR I-PACE has a 93kWh pack (they are calling it 90kWh) but despite having only 1/3rd of the cargo space of a TESLA MODEL X and much more cramped backseating the I-PACE gets less range than the entry level TESLA MODEL X that has a 75kWh pack. I am comparing the I-PACE to MODEL X because that is what JAGUAR are doing. Even though I would do what one Dutch Youtube reviewer has done and compare I-PACE with the current entry level MODEL S in which case the I-PACE comes off even worse. Lutz clearly does not realise that NICKEL is largest ingredient in the TESLA/PANASONIC chemistry mix calling a battery Lithium-ion with the tone that Lutz does is very ignorant given the diverse chemistries of batteries that come under Lithium-ion.


He also doesn’t understand the notion of the efficiency of an EV and how vitally important that is. It could well be the Jaguar (and Audi) also suffers from a less efficient drive train (inverter, motor, gears, etc.) and a vehicle body that causes more drag, air resistance, or otherwise. Even UBS, a Tesla bear, identified this problem with the Audi.


Exactly. Tesla has gone thru multiple iterations of it’s electric motors.
Did Jag design, or did they contract out their design to Magna?

Tesla has data and the motivation to perfect their motors.
Jag is only competing because it’s losing market share.


The low efficiency of the I-Pace has nothing to do with batteries being “less powerful”.

I agree though that the batteries are not quite the same, just because they are all Li-Ion…


Except for mixing kg with kwh and not knowing how Tesla counts their delivery numbers, I didn’t think Lutz said anything outrageous. His points may be disagreeable but that doesn’t make them outrageous.


Yes, except for the factual content of his comments, he was correct.


He called it the E-Pace, not the I-Pace.


Perhaps, as Senator Jon Kyle’s staff put it when trying to walk back one of the Senator’s “alternative facts” remarks, what Bob said was “not intended to be a factual statement.” 😉


What did he say that seemed accurate and/or made sense to you?


His back pedal about Tesla going bankrupt.


It must be tough for the old man to deal with the fact the wheels are starting to come off of the ICE vehicle empire he put so much into. “Get off my lawn punk”

Nicholas Kelischek

Lutz is the big Putz…


What Bob does not talk about is the industry’s dirty little secrets: Spiffs, Rebates and Holdbacks which are given to dealerships when a vehicle has spent already a couple months sitting unsold in the dealer’s lot and is unwilling to recognize that a Tesla vehicle remains on the “Tesla System” only until the moment of delivery which is only two or three weeks after production.


Days, in many cases it’s only on the lot for days, in some cases it’s hours.


Why Doesn’t Bob Just Give it Up Already , Go Away & take His Stale Dinosaur Agenda Ideas with Him and Leave the People In Peace ..Greedy Bob Just HATES to See Other People Succeed !


Bob Lutz is out to pasture !!


But sadly, CNBC keeps saddling him to ride around the ring in their circus. Also sadly, Dinosaur Bob hasn’t noticed that it’s the ring with the clown act.

Bill Howland

Hey you guys never even listened to the interview…. Lutz is backtracking big time and says Tesla might even make a profit.

That is basically Bob Lutz eating his words.

The real question is why doesn’t anyone ever ask LUTZ about the dropped ball at VIA – since HE HAS NO CONTROL of Tesla, but he MIGHT have some influence at VIA.

Its like here – it doesn’t really matter what people say who have no control over anything.

So to reiterate, why doesn’t someone ask LUTZ a question about LUTZ’s operation, to the extent he is familiar with it or controls it?


Because it wouldn’t generate many views.

Another Euro point of view

Now it is like always, the truth lies somewhere in between what EV fans will write (that includes most of IEVs articles) and what this gentleman says. For example he says Tesla has no special hedge regarding battery technology. That’s partly wrong. What Tesla has working for them as far as innovation is concerned is that back in 2013 their changes of survival as a new car manufacturer were perhaps one out of 10. Thus they could use the most insanely daring battery technology taking the risk to have their cars blowing up to pieces as they had literally nothing to loose. It was the very opposite with car makers like Toyota that had everything to loose as far as their reputation is concerned and that can be still seen with large car manufacturers still not daring for example to use the yet existing 811 battery chemistry and using instead the old 622 chemistry because they are simply scared to death.


Tesla wasn’t taking unpredictable risks. They ran many, many tests to validate the safety of their architecture.

(Also, your timeline is way off. In 2013, Tesla was already very successful with the Model S, and had *a lot* to lose.)


After Seeing & Hearing This Video , I think Lutz Has Totally Lost His Mind & Should Not Make These Embarrassing Public Appearances..


I think this interview really highlights how woefully out of touch many legacy automakers might be. If any bird members at gm ford or fca actually think like that then they’re doomed. The regs will only get tighter and they’ll have to sell more evs or they ll get fined and if they keep making losses on them they’ll go under. They should be worried about their drop in sales as it means their margins are going to be dangerously thin and any downturn is really going to hurt. I wonder if any of the big 3 will survive the next recession? If they don’t there’ll be a lot of spare factories for Tesla!


As long as *all* legacy makers need to sell EVs at a loss to fulfil regulations, none of them will go under because of that: they just all have to raise margins on their combustion cars to compensate…

What makes his argument fall down is that Tesla has proven it’s possible to make EVs at a profit, with demand far exceeding what’s needed to fulfil regulations — which means that legacy makes selling only low volumes of compliance vehicles at a loss will *not* kill Tesla’s market. If they actually want to compete with Tesla for EV market share, they have do do so on an equal footing.


The first part of the comment is a bunch of crap. The rest is so so.
It’s obviously that Tesla is selling all the cars they’re making – obviously some are in transit.


He should be called Bob Lulz


This guy has an agenda, always has an agenda and it’s all about him…Deeply in that agenda is trying to make Tesla fail or some money-related benefit for Bob Lutz.


I think his agenda is much simpler: saying controversial things about Tesla gets him air time.


I think it’s likely, and rather obvious, that part of what motivates Dinosaur Bob to rant about Tesla is jealousy over its ever-improving success, as well as the growing list of achievements of its high-profile CEO, Elon Musk. Comparing Elon to Bob, who is now stuck as the figurehead at a tiny, unsuccessful EV conversion van company, Via Motors… well, it’s easy to see why Dinosaur Bob is jealous and full of sour grapes rants.


Saw Lutz present at the NY Auto show years ago when the production intent Volt was shown for the first time. He charismatic and a great salesperson but his technical understanding was a little lacking. Sad to see he’s off the reservation now. Among all of the other already refuted nonsense. The last paragraph about Tesla not being able to compete in the near future with other car companies selling EV’s at a loss is clueless fodder for EV haters at best. While that could have had an impact on Tesla when they were selling 100K cars per year but even then it’s a suspect argument. By next year Tesla will sell about 500K vehicles. Half baked compliance vehicles are going to make a dent in that. Furthermore, these aren’t captured “EV” buyers anymore. Tesla is pulling ICE buyers away and most of their sales have little to do with EV aficionados anymore.

Ron M

Apparently Lutz the Putz must handle his own personal financial affairs the same as when he was a CEO.
Why else would he have to work.

Mike I.

My favorite quote from that video:

“Everybody’s battery is the same. They all have the same amount of energy per kWh”.

Bwaaaaa haaaaa haaa!!!!

OMG, what a dufus. Never mind kWh/kg, kWh/liter or $/kWh. Those things don’t really matter, right????


Don’t confuse me, with all “Those things” (that) “don’t really matter”!

I was just finally starting to get my feeble mind around “EVerybody’s battery is the same”!😉



“They all have the same amount of energy per kWh”.
😆 😆 😆

But unlike much of what Dinosaur Bob said, that’s factually correct. 😉

Tiago Barbosa

And the same weigth per Kg 🙂


Who is this “Boob Putz” guy?
Has he ever created a successful EV company, or any company, from scratch?
Has he been successful in keeping his company from bankruptcy?
Is he a cutting edge technologists?
If the answer is “no” to any of these questions *why* is his opinion relevant?


Bob Lutz is an American hero!!


If he is indeed, then it’s all the more sad that he keeps making a fool of himself just for some cheap attention…

We have very low standards for hero status lately…
Bro is a hero for saying Bob is a hero.


why do we even care about him anymore? He doesn’t work at GM anymore and that was “old GM” which went bankrupt. Even since then, he hasn’t done anything worthy mentioning beside bad mouth Tesla. Tesla isn’t perfect, but it is far better than how Lutz describes. This guy is about 30 years behind the times…

Maybe he forgot his daily meds…


VÍA motes outsold Tesla in Bobs mind, that is what is call senile demencia.


Bob, go jump in a lake!


Better not; he might forget where the shore is.

Big Solar

I just read the title so far and … hahahahahahahah hahahahahahaha hahahahahahah hahahahah.


I read and Bob Lutz and hahahahahaha hahahahahahah hahahahahahah
he is really a joker with no value or stuff. We call that kind of a person in India as Pappu.

David D

His argument that everyone else is going to be making EV’s too, doesn’t help his case. If Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler, Audi, Porsche, VW, Toyota all make cars as good as the Model 3 that sell as well as the Model 3 it will destroy the market for internal combustion engine vehicles very very rapidly, which helps Tesla’s mission.


Well, his “logic” could only work if Tesla were only making 20,000 cars a year. Sure, Ford or GM “could” make a great EV to kill off Tesla, about 20,001 of them. However, those days are gone. It’s the old ICE makers with SMALL Production Numbers, and Tesla with 10 Times their production, moving to 20 TIMES their production.

And remember, Mary Barra used the SONIC to kill the Tesla Model S!
That takes big ones.


He reminds me of the fictional J. Jonah Jameson from Spiderman. So much irrational hatred that no one can figure out where it originates from.


Oh no. My rarely used laptop at home posted it as a previous username. Don’t ban me *cringe*


Don’t worry, these rules are about sock puppets, i.e. people using different names in the same discussion to create an appearance of broader support for their claims. Just using a different name in an isolated comment by accident won’t bother anyone…

Madan R

Yesterday he said Tesla cannot make and sell
Today he says Tesla delivers though not at profit
Tomorrow he will say that Tesla does make a profit.

If he accepts, he will be a gentleman,
otherwise he will end up in automotive history as a dirtyman.


Worse than a dirty man. A rambling, raging, imbecile.