Tesla Model 3 Charges At 117-kW On CCS

FEB 8 2019 BY MARK KANE 52

Tesla Model 3 is able to take roughly 120 kW from CCS charger

As the first Tesla Model 3 were delivered to customers in Europe, it seems one posted eagerly awaited info about maximum charging power.

The European version of the Model 3 is equipped with a CCS Combo-compatible charging inlet. Therefore, it can use general CCS fast chargers. Certainly, Superchargers retrofitted with CCS plugs work with the Model 3 too.

The photo took at the IONITY fast charging station, probably in France, shows 117 kW of power at 39% state-of-charge (SOC).

It’s reasonable to assume that the maximum output is somewhere around 120 kW (probably at a higher SOC). Furthermore, the IONITY fast chargers are set for at least 150-175 kW (with an option to unlock the full 350 kW later on). Consequently, the Teslas sort of afterthought setup doesn’t allow for pulling that level of power though (350-kW)

Tesla Model 3 et charge à 120 kW sur station Ionity, le combo parfait 😍 Notre essai à lire et visionner prochainement sur le site 😏

Posted by Automobile-Propre.com on Thursday, February 7, 2019

source: Automobile-Propre.com

Categories: Charging, Tesla

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52 Comments on "Tesla Model 3 Charges At 117-kW On CCS"

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Now the question is – is this 120kW software locked so that it doesn’t out rate Tesla’s superchargers, and when SCv3 is announced (a) will it charge Model 3 faster (b) will Tesla unlock this faster speed via non-superchargers? 🙂

Every EV could charge faster. But at some point the damages to the battery become exponentially bigger.

So in a way every EV is SW limited to a charging rate. Could Tesla unlock more? Sure! Will Tesla unlock more? Depends on how much additional damage the cells would take.

Correct. The most practical way to increase charging speed capability is to simply increase the size of the battery being charged. If you have a 500 kWh battery charging at 500 kW, it is only 1C. Charging a 100 kWh battery at 500 kW would be 5C, and most chemistries wouldn’t handle that well repeatedly, if at all.

You forgot the limitations due to the charging cable. The news with that cables having a cooling problem wasn’t that long ago. Why do they need cooling? Too high current for too thin wire. Why no thicker wire? To hard to handle for end-users. What’s the alternative? Higher voltage. But probably also the Tesla hardware was only made for 400V. So unlocking without prior hardware upgrade probably won’t happen concerning higher voltage.
And the cables are currently limited to I think like 440A. In other words: Maximum powers are 175kW@400V and 350kW@800V…

BTW: AFAIK Hyundai/KIA is charging with max. 1.75C (40kWh battery with 70kW charging). For a 75kWh battery that would be ca. 130kW and for a 100kWh battery 175kW.
But the adapter for Model S/X is uncool(ed) resp. flexible cables are probably even not necessary there (many adapter have a “hard” housing without flexible cable in between), but it’s as it is…

notting

All cars have software limited charging speeds. Teslas, even with the new 2170 cells and the big 100 kWh packs can only reach an 118 kW peak and can’t maintain it for long.
For a comparison, the Audi E-tron has a peak of 155 kW. But what is impressive is that the E-Tron can charge like that until it reaches almost 80%. Tesla Model 3, even with a slightly bigger battery pack can only reach 118 kW and keep it only up to 40% soc. Then it drops fast. At 80%, Tesla charges at 45 kW vs 150kW from Audi. At 95% Tesla drops to 16 kW vs 77kW from Audi.
If Tesla will indeed make a 3rd generation of own chargers that would be faster, they would be useless for their own cars.

For references, google Tesla Model 3 charging graph and Audi E-Tron 155 kW charging.

True, but the Audi is such an energy hog that it probably gains distance more slowly than the TM3 or maybe even the TMS.

True, but the Audi is such an energy hog that it probably gains distance more slowly than the TM3 or maybe even the TMS.
I don’t like SUV’s and I find them idiotic in a city.
That being said, the E-Tron is a real off-road, luxury machine. It is heavy, sturdy and not made only for efficiency. Actually, most Audis aren’t.
Comparing it with a m3 or a ms is silly. Just like comparing an Q8 with a Prius.

> Comparing it with a m3 or a ms is silly. Just like comparing an Q8 with a Prius.

It’s nothing like that. More like comparing a Q5 to an A4

Model 3 does not have a 100kWh pack

Model 3 does not have a 100kWh pack
Nonetheless

We’ll see how Audi’s battery holds up long term….

Model 3 can handle higher amperage. The battery is capable of charging at 525A! Currently it is being charged at ~340A max. In the cars produced for the US, the only limitation is the high voltage cable from the charge port to the battery is rated at ~430A (if I remember correctly from a teardown). So the battery is more than capable of handling a higher charging speed, but Tesla is limiting it via software.
BUT I do have a feeling that Tesla updated the cable to have a higher current rating for the EU cars. I suspect that Tesla will unlock the ability to charge faster when using CCS in the EU once supercharger V3 is out.
And once supercharger V3 is out, they will likely increase the software limitation that the US cars produced in 2017/2018 have and allow the car to charge at a higher rate but not the full V3 rate.
I suspect that you will need to be below 30% SOC to even see the advantages of V3 speeds in the Model 3. I also suspect that it will only make charging faster by at most 5 minutes.

If they could do that, then why does it taper off that fast? I guess those 525 A are shortish bursts (for less than a minute).

They could already greatly reduce charging times, w/o V3. Just let it keep charging at 110 kW until 60,70, or even 80%.

He is talking only about the cable size. Like if you double the thikness of a 2 meter cable, you can charge the Bolt, let’s say, at 100 kW. He should sell the tip to the auto experts.

Alec – why wouldn’t the 2017-2018 model 3 be able to charge at the full v3 rate?

BEVfan – Sorry you’re wrong. Electrek just posted an article a few minutes ago about Fastned tweet re: Model 3 just photographed charging at 126 KW until 48% SOC earlier this morning on a Fastned 175KW charger.

The Model 3 has about a 72-74kWh battery pack. With 2170 battery’s that are about 30% more volume than a 18650 battery. Tesla is also working on Battery chemistries and anodes that increase density and make the batteries cheaper to make.

Anyone noticed that the Model 3 is charging money at a non-Tesla charger. Does this mean that it can interface with the charger or that Tesla has a bit of a bug.

I can see the 7,80 Euro on the display on the picture. If the car is calculating supercharger fees, that would be about 27 kWh regarding Teslas prices of about 0,29 Cents / kWh in Europe. With a soc of 39% on the long range, he would have been almost empty arriving at the charger. To bad we have no picture from the charger display about the lenght of the session.

WOW charging at 770 km/hr your should only need 20 or 30 min at the charger.

Charge rate drops as the battery fills up. The same thing happens when charging at a Supercharger.

It takes 40 minutes to charge to 80%.

Rasmus Birkegaard Christensen

What matters is the charging speed vs efficiency. Maybe the the etron charges faster but its only half as efficient. So in the end the consumer is stuck with a bigger bill.

Of course, but you can’t compare the e-tron quattro with Model 3, you have to compare with Model X.

No difference from a Supercharger. This is exactly what American Model 3’s do below 50% SOC. The Ionity charger should be able to deliver more amps (400A) than a Supercharger (<350A) so it should be faster. However, it's up to the car to say how many amps it wants, so that means that Tesla has not enabled more current on CCS than Superchargers.

Very interesting to see the CCS. Eventhough I love the sleekness of the Tesla standard North American plug, it’ll be very good to have a international standard for all Tesla cars for DCFC.

There is no international standard for wall plugs, or even voltage. Heh, there aren’t even standards for units of speed or which side of the road to drive on!

The Model 3 is not a ” sort of afterthought setup [that] doesn’t allow for pulling that level of power though (350-kW)” The 350 kW rate is for an 800 volt battery. A 400 volt battery could only get 175 kW maximum, and that would likely require at least a 100 kWh battery to keep the C rate within reason. A 75 kWh battery, at 117 kWh is already pulling over 1.5 C.

1.5 C isn’t very fast. 5 to 20 C, that is fast.

5 to 20 C is fine for an RC or drone pack that is designed for maximum power, and much less energy density that car packs.

Your battery would last an order of magnitude fewer cycles. I suppose you figure it would be worth that to save a few hours going to grandma’s for Thanksgiving?

All I am meaning is people talk about how bad SC must be for your battery, but it really isn’t that fast charging. My i3 charges at 2C, but it charges slow in terms of miles/min. Tesla was smart in EVs though. They understood that you need a large battery to get a good balance of range, power, and quick charging (miles/min).

You are right, to get 20 C you need a different chemistry that is not as energy dense, and doesn’t really serve much purpose in a car. It seems to me 4 or 5 C is plenty (charge in 12 or 15 mins). I suspect Taycan is around 4 C. I am fine with Tesla around 1.5 C, but would prefer over 2 for that battery size.

that single video posted of Taycan charging indicates <~3C

“5 to 20 C, that is fast.”

Yeah, fast enough to set a large li-ion battery pack on fire. Even lower rates, let’s say above 2-2.5 C, would be putting unnecessary strain on the pack, and thus premature aging.

I don’t know what kind of EV you’re used to dealing with — maybe an e-bike, maybe as Warren says, a small drone — but cells that can charge that fast aren’t used in EV passenger cars.

Depends on the pack. What do you think the “small” PHEV-batteries charge with?

3C is fast enough for me…

” A 400 volt battery could only get 175 kW maximum”

We will see on the future updates….

this not true. It can take much more. The fuse is rated at 1500 amps. So it can go upto 400 V X 1500 amps = 600 kW.

This is the fuse for the charger? It could only handle 80% of its rating continuously. But that is still 1200 amps. So they could charge an 800 volt car at 960 kW?! What is the cable and plug rated for?

Higher voltage has nothing to do with C rates. All a higher voltage does is reduce current. The battery still has to be built to handle the power.

Anything from Tesla on US owners being able to get the CSS port? Seems like it would be a parts order and install if Model 3 owners wanted it.

I don’t believe Tesla has said anything about North America Tesla’s going with a CCS port. It really wouldn’t be difficult to put CCS plugs at existing Superchargers tho, and that’s a good thing. Much better route than an adapter IMO.

Europe uses a different CCS connector (Combo-2) than North America (Combo-1).

Wait — there are TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF CCS???

[throws hands up in disgust, stomps out of room]

Lou… Easy on the Feat!

If you thought SAE America had any power over Europe designs, you made a big Boo-Boo in thinking!

Next, why do you think Automakers of traditional ICE Cars make these differences? To make EV’s “Hard” to replace ICE Vehicles, of course!
😁

But only for cars. For trucks and buses The US NIST recommends the CCS2 plug.
Anyways, for DC this is just a mechanical issue the charging protocol is identical.

The charger is in Belgium – Bierset. This part we speak French. The North we speaks Flemish ( Dutch-ish).
Its the closest ionity charger to Holland ( car has Dutch numberplates)

This is a dutch license plate

The bottleneck will be the fuse.

model 3 + ionity + other networks in combo + supercharger = the first real long distance electric car

Why was that info not part of that article? https://insideevs.com/fast-charging-comparison-audi-mercedes-jaguar-electric-suv/
Needed the “keyword” “Tesla” in the subject? 😐

notting

Glad they don’t use metric for that too…. 🙂