Tesla Fires Hundreds Of Underperforming Employees – UPDATE

Tesla

OCT 14 2017 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 208

Tesla Model 3 production

Is the automaker’s recent mass firing an aggressive attempt to repair Tesla Model 3 production issues?

News arrived at the end of the work week that Tesla has let hundreds of workers go immediately, with plans to fill nearly all vacancies. Could this prove an aggressive attempt to fix Tesla Model 3 production?

There is no way of knowing for sure how many employees Tesla let go or what its intentions are. Interviews with former and current workers by The Mercury News suggests that the automaker executed the task with almost no warning and may have axed some 400 to 700 workers or more.

Those sent packing include managers, engineers, and factory workers. Reports also say that some employees received promotions and/or bonuses at the same time, which were all a part of the company’s annual performance reviews.

Tesla Model 3 production

Inside Tesla’s factory in Fremont, California

Tesla did make a statement assuring us that this move is not to be seen as layoffs, and has nothing to do with any union situations. The company has immediate plans to fill nearly every vacancy and is constantly recruiting new talent from around the globe.

Production of the Tesla Model 3 in Q3 was significantly below earlier guidance (260 of a projected 1,680+) due to “production bottlenecks”.

At this point, with a goal of some 5,000 Model 3s per week in December, and some ~450,000 reservations to fill, the Silicon Valley automaker apparently has no choice but to stir the point. A company spokesperson told Mercury News:

“As with any company, especially one of over 33,000 employees, performance reviews also occasionally result in employee departures. Tesla is continuing to grow and hire new employees around the world.”

Tesla employees about 10,000 workers at its sole production facility in Fremont, California. Reports assume a majority of the employees that were fired worked at the factory.

Despite Tesla’s above statement, those the Mercury News spoke with included a few who were pro-union and believe they were targeted. Others included factory supervisors, administrators, and workers; vehicle design and production engineers; and salespeople. Most workers interviewed with the promise of anonymity, however, the publication did speak with production worker, Juan Maldonado, who openly shared information.

Tesla Model 3 production

Tesla Model S at company’s Fremont factory

Maldonado had been with the automaker for four years. He admitted to being late for work twice in the last few months, which he thought he had rectified with his boss. Obviously not as Tesla searched for candidates to replace and Juan was let go along with 60 other employees that he was personally apprised of.

Some reports point to the many firings being specific to the Model S, Model X, and SolarCity. However, others believe that it is more directly related to the Tesla Model 3 production.

Hopefully, as more updates come in, we will have a better idea of exactly what the case is. Tesla hasn’t yet provided information about these dismissals to the state Employment Development Department. The automaker asserts that since these aren’t layoffs — because it was performance-related and employees will be replaced for the most part — there’s no need to report. However, this may still ultimately come to pass as a disclosure, since California requires a report if 50 more employees are laid off inside of 30 days.

Though some interviewees insisted that the firings have made a negative impact on worker morale, a Tesla spokesperson shared the opposite. Tesla says that the move has actually boosted spirits due to rewards for deserved employees. This may also appease some skeptics and analysts, along with working to push stock prices up if the aggressive move is, in fact, to fix the “Model 3 production bottleneck.” This should prove especially true if it makes a notable impact on the automaker’s upcoming Model 3 deliveries. Managing editor at Kelley Blue Book and Autotrader, Michael Harley, told Mercury News:

“It’s no secret that Tesla’s Model 3 development and ramp-up for production has been derailed. A major change in staff – whether dismissal or layoff – is an indication that there is an upper-level movement to put the train back on the tracks.”

Source: The Mercury News

Categories: Tesla

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208 Comments on "Tesla Fires Hundreds Of Underperforming Employees – UPDATE"

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This is JUST the move to make to get them out of production hell, right?

Now time to watch all the TSLA fanbois attack me for no reason. *Gets popcorn*

How do performance reviews and results of them work at GM, Ford, etc. Poor performers get let go? It would be difficult for you to be less obnoxious on this and other sites. You give GM a bad reputation and negative impressions.

I don’t even mention GM, neither does the article, but the Tesla fanbois drag them into a Tesla post anyways. You guys must really be afraid of your precious TSLA stock getting devalued.

I rarely agree with B99, but this time he’s got a point.

Bit by bit, Tesla is proving by example why workplaces like auto factories need to be unionized.

1. If the manufacturing situation was so bad that it required throwing out so many overnight, then how come they’ve been increasing production on the S+X by 50% every year? And how in the world can this be not an upper-management problem, rather than finding low-level scapegoats?

2. Was it any of these hundreds, who had made these crazy-ass ambitious M3 ramp plans?

3. Is this some kind of signal to remaining employees, “The beating will continue until morale improves”? We know how well that works, especially in a constrained-labor environment which I believe is the case surely for the Silicon Valley.

Shameful. I have lots of respect for Musk’s accomplishments, and also have had criticisms of him before. But this is the worst so far.

You must have a cushy state job, Assaf.

Every company I have worked for has annual performance reviews and poor performers are let go.

Many even have “forced” rankings where at least 5% must be ranked at the bottom and targeted to be fired.

If it was your company, do you want unions? They protect the most senior members at the expense of the juniors.

There are many flavours of union. Many behave more like old time guilds, in a manner like you describe (seniority trumps everything), others do more to advocate for a voice and power for their workers.

None of them would be desired by an employer. But in large scale manufacturing jobs they end up being inevitable because of the abuses of power that accumulate.

“The New Trend: Get Rid of the Performance Review.”

https://getlighthouse.com/blog/get-rid-of-the-performance-review/

The performance review thing is pretty worthless. Tesla has two pressures that would cause the mass layoffs.

1. Union pressures so get rid of employees you think are pro-union.

2. Production issues, can’t produce cars so get rid of excess employees.

Standard corporate, people are unhappy with what goes on in the company then fire them, don’t bother fixing the problems.

Exactly right on the need to unionize.

“Maldonado had been with the automaker for four years. He admitted to being late for work twice in the last few months, which he thought he had rectified with his boss.”

Four years? Late twice? Arbitrary firing and with the union movement, it sure looks like Tesla was trying to get rid of what it thought were union votes.

At the same time, that’s close to 10% of Tesla’s workforce and typically the real reasons are to save money. If Tesla cannot produce the Model 3’s, it doesn’t need all that labor sitting around.

He said he was late twice in last month, not the 4 years that he was employed. It’s like asking a drunk how many drinks he’s had. He might answer “just couple of beers, officer”

If Tesla got rid of “union votes” that claim “only had couple of beers”, all the better. Had those guys unionized, they would’ve been fast spreading cancer in the company that have negative productivity by encouraging others to be just as ineffective as them.

I fire people all the time. One restaurant I visited for decades started to have quality issues, so I fired them; they shut down after few months. I also fired gardeners, barbers, etc. If they were union, I’d be forced to pay some ridiculous money to have even poorer service.

I’m sure you don’t regularly patronize place with poor service when there are alternatives available, but wishing for union is to wish for others (Tesla) to suffer with poor workers.

“He said he was late twice in last month, not the 4 years that he was employed. It’s like asking a drunk how many drinks he’s had.”

No he said only thing on his four year record was being late twice in last couple months.

The “drunk” analogy makes no sense though it does try and taint the issue as though the employee’s offense was something like being drunk for work.

Union work rules prevent this kind of abuse. The idea this was for performance is belied by the fact that some 700 people were fired at once. If Mr. Maldanardo had been a problem employee (which he wasn’t for the last four years) that would be dealt with when it came up. Tesla would not have waited on him or others for a mass firing. Likely employees with union affiliation or people who did not want to work overtime.

It looks very much like a combo of anti-union and cost cutting as Model 3 production is having problems.

I sure hope Tesla is not going to become evil.

Not to be off topic, but how do you fire a restaurant? You stop visiting them, and don’t spend money there but how does that equate to firing?

There were no beatings, only firings. When a company decides it’s time to fire an employee or group of employees, it must be done swiftly or they’re open to internal retribution during their remaining days on the job.

Spoken like a devout capitalist.
Labor must be taught a lesson.

A couple years ago, there were whispers of “Union” in my office.
Management conducted their “Third Annual Union Education Session”.

Funny thing is that none of us remembered a “Second Annual” or “First Annual” of such meetings.

They showed us videos of happy nonunion employees, and Unionized Employees who regretted voting for the Union.

In the end it came down to “Unionized shops don’t get discounted service”, and the Union seemed to lose it’s foothold overnight.

The “Third Annual” stuff was to pretend that it was business as usual, and not an attempt to squash a vote. The rules are somewhat odd. The company can’t specifically retaliate, but if they show they consistently have been saying the same thing, then they can prove it isn’t retaliation.

For example, a company can’t ban employees from putting pro-union leaflets on cars in the parking lot. But a company can ban all people from distributing leaflets on their property (including the parking lot) even if that includes banning the distribution of pro-union leaflets.

The obvious red flag here is that it appears to of happened at the same time. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ‘mass firing’ before. Mass layoff yes, but mass firing? Can you say litigation?

I’m not sure about mass litigation but this sure as heck isn’t going to help their unemployment benefits rates!

No only direct cost, but this firing will have indirect costs that might be even higher.

This will have people thinking twice before working for Tesla, even the well qualified candidates. Tesla may need to up the compensation package to attract the same level of talent had it not have this event.

It may also attract “I don’t care if I’m fired” crowd, which is typical of young people. They might be more flighty, which Tesla may have to have more employees “in reserve” to compensate.

I only mention couple of reason, but there are probably many more indirect costs far higher and are why mass firing may not be good for the company, especially one that goes public like this event.

I’m sure GM and Ford wish they could get rid of factory workers who perform poorly! The unions disallow any performance based firings.

Bro has Tesla OCD. Go see someone, Bro. Oh, and you may also want to comment on the GM articles since supposedly you are a fan.

Where the popcorn

He forgot the Butter!
And Napkins!

Easy to see your popcorn eating rump would be the first out of the door.

1. How long before this troll gets banned?
2. ‘to stir the point’– mixed metaphor- ‘ to make a point’ or ‘to stir the pot’?

Well, now that Tesla manufacturing is a lean mean model of efficiency with moral at an all time high with the dead wood gone, those Model 3s ought to be flying out the door now!! Yep, extra employees was the bottleneck alright. Just clean house a little and now it’s a well oiled machine with all it’s parts in harmony.

This was obviously a cost savings measure from apparently a pretty worried company. Labor is one of, if not your biggest expense, so get rid of some people quick to save money quick. Make it a firing and you won’t incur any unemployment benefit expenses. Treat people like expendable trash. That’s the Silicon Valley way.

Pretty douche bag move IMO, but of course Tesla can do no wrong. Come on Elon, unionize. I dare ya!

I wonder how many peolle that got fired were on the verge of cashing in on stock options that got yanked at the last minute via the no-warning firings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-09-19/tesla-worker-says-timing-of-firing-denied-him-lucrative-shares

This happened to me in my 20s. I worked for a company that had a pension plan. I needed to work there 4 years to vest. One week before my four year vesting, they laid me off, but made the mistake of hiring me back as a temp worker.

I sued. I won. I was 20. I blew my settlement on awesome guitars and recording equipment! LOL! No regrets.

Rock on Man!!!

Enlightening story on CNBC, suggesting that the firings were not performance based.

As I suggested 4 days ago, further down in the comments section, 4th quarter firings/layoffs is on method some companies use to hit 4th quarter financial targets.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/tesla-firings-former-and-current-employees-allege-layoffs.html

The beatings will continue until morale improves. It’s an annual thing. Nothing new just the Jack Welch school of management

Better Jack Welch than Jack Smith.

The Jack Smith school of management leads automakers to bankruptcy.

I thought that was the ‘Jack Squat Management Program!’

Wagoner was CEO when GM went bankrupt.

Such reviews are an individual thing between an employee and his/her manager. “To suggest anything otherwise is purely speculation or the expression of a different agenda.”

If you fire 1/10th of your employees for underperforming, there is a much bigger problem with upper management.

I can also see this resulting in possible lawsuits especially if there is any flaw to their methodology of firing people. They better be able to clearly document their decision for firing so no connections can be made to race, orientations, union activities, etc.

Where did you get 1/10. More like 1/00.

But you know, I would fire 10% of my employees in a second if I had replacements

More like 2-3% of employees….but let’s round it up to 10%…lol.

That is the trouble with this comment tool: no edit function!

“I would fire 10% of my employees in a second if I had replacements”

Would you do so if the replacements cost more money? In the end, what matters is productivity with respect to cost (direct and indirect). I’d fire only if the result is more productivity per cost (hard to measure). Indeed, this is why machines replace humans in many industries.

Those are people, not cogs in a machine.

You might want to believe bleeding heart sentiment, but everyone would do exactly the same. When’s the last time you went to restaurant with awful food just because they are “poor people”? We expect certain quality (productivity) for the money from everyone, or else we “fire” them.

Sorry meant to say 1/100th.

Too bad we can’t do this for our Congress in D.C… Old fart Republicans and career Democrats must go. This is draining the swamp, pay for performance. When a guy says he was, “late a couple times”, often it’s habitual. Notice how anti-Teslers jump to their own unsubstantiated conclusions and proclamations. There is no doubt UAW hacks had infiltrated the ranks at all levels. Some here talk about unions on general. That is a different discussion. We know the UAW brought down giants like GM and we know foreign car companies with domestic factories have embellished upon their employees to keep these swine out. Their employees saying, “we’re happy, we don’t need no stinkin’ union big brother”. The UAW has been at Tesla hard. Musk is fighting back. At no time is Tesla more vulnerable than now at M3 ramp up. This is good news. Good good news. Look back to the history of Fremont. Before GM reached out to Toyota for help, and the resulting deal spawned N.U.M.M.I., UAW workers and their “right” to show up for work drunk and high, or not show up at all resulted in sheer madness. Google it. It’s a bizarre tale of the… Read more »

No, we don’t know that the UAW brought down GM. Horrible management did. Ford had to deal with the exact same UAW, but was better managed.

Anyone think that Model 3 put on Craigslist was one of these canned Tesla employees? Hopefully he did sell it versus getting strongarmed by Tesla to take the ad down! Could see a real review soon if they were able to sell it.

Their ad went national, you have to imagine them receiving an ungodly amount of emails so I could see them taking down the ad to stop the emails…However the photos? In one of the pics, you can see other tesla’s parked and in another diagnostic gear…It certainly appears that all photos were taken at the Tesla showroom…Just looks much more like a “OMG, the model 3, let’s take some instagram pictures!” photos vs “going to sell my car for $100K profit” photos…But who knows, maybe we’ll hear more about the fabled first model 3 for sale

Could have been a manager at the Monterey Tesla store. They would have access to those areas.
If you were that manager and knew you’d be canned really soon, I’d do the same thing! Once unshackled by the NDA chains.

Who in their right mind would buy a $150k model 3 instead of a $150k model S?

Someone who wanted to tear it apart and see what makes it tick. A manufacturer wouldn’t blink at speeding that money for early access to a model 3. Neither would a major stock analyst.

CCIE said:

“Someone who wanted to tear it apart and see what makes it tick. A manufacturer wouldn’t blink at speeding that money for early access to a model 3.”

Yup, I’m sure several major auto makers are quite eager to get their hands on a Model 3, so they can analyze it and use the analysis to design cars which will best compete with the TM3. And the Chinese will want to reverse engineer it so they can clone it.

“Neither would a major stock analyst.” What would a stock analyst do if he got his hands on one? I suppose he could pay a team of mechanics and engineers to examine it to death, but I fail to see how that’s gonna help him predict how well Tesla’s stock price is going to perform. People don’t make car buying decisions on the basis of what engineers think about the car, and Tesla’s stock price is rather weakly coupled to the company’s performance. Taken together, an analyst would pretty much be wasting his money buying an early production TM3 just so someone could examine it.

UBS paid for a Chevy Bolt teardown and analysis. I imagine it cost a good deal more than $150k.

The reason an investment bank would do this is to be the first to provide such detailed information to their clients. Stock price predictions are just fluff for headlines – the detailed cost models and other hard-to-get info is what clients value.

Exactly. The stuff you see on CNBC or Bloomberg is just the tip of the iceberg. Real market data is a huge business. The major analysts will do anything to be on top and get a piece of the action.

Yes. And supply chain. A lot more than just Tesla stock in play.

If it’s really performance review thing, all the hundreds of “vacancies” will need to be promptly rehired to meet definition of “firing” – if Tesla does not refill these openings, then there will be law suits glore!

This site needs a way to block people so that I don’t have to read comments from people who bring nothing to the conversations. It really makes the comments hard to read through.

People feel empowered, and after all it’s the internet. Kelly Blue Book sure did, when they decided to narrate the Model 3 as “derailed”.

“Boo-hoo, people have a different opinion than me! Moderator, please block them! I’m sooo offended!”

He didn’t ask anybody to stop anyone from posting. He’s requesting the feature to drop specific users from his own view of the comments.

This is a common feature on many forums and has nothing to do the the moderators.

Groupthink to the finest, you would love Trump then

I’m sure that all the serial Tesla bashers would hate to see InsideEVs add a feature to block their posts, because of course most people except newbies would do so.

The question is, Will, why are you objecting to a feature which would make reading InsideEVs comments a more pleasant experience?

People would welcome being able to block all the Tesla propagandist trolls like you.

Not another door ding, ouch!

The headline was basically parroting what Tesla’s statement even without some critical thinking.

2% of workforce thrown out at a time, they are having issues. The problem is calling it “firing” instead of “layoffs”.

Usually forums like these lean Left, but the way TSLA fanbois started pissing on Unions and Unionizing was some juggling work.

Till Yesterday, Tesla had no problems with product or service, now today, there is 2% dead weight!

What TSLA is doing here is outright word play and you do not have to back up their tactics just because you like their car, oh let me guess, unless you own the stock.

Please read and comprehend comments carefully before posting. Thanks.

Straw man. He never said ban those with opposing opinions, just ban trolls who add noise to the comments by repeating the same thing over and over again.

Like the TSLA propagandist trolls. PP, Nix, Get Real, etc

“It really makes the comments hard to read through.”

My god, how do you ever get out of your house? There are literally billions of signs that you need to ignore to function in the real world. If it’s so hard to ignore them, you literally won’t be able to drive.

I guess now we know more about what manufacturering hell looks like. Firing someone is pretty serious, people that get fired aren’t eligible for unemployment insurance and getting fired could destroy the lives of these people. This brutal treatment of employees is the strongest argument I have heard yet for unionizing Tesla.

Treating employees so horribly is just another reason for me NOT to buy a Tesla.

they should be eligible for unemployment given the reason for termination can’t amount to more than failure to meet expectations. I read somewhere that the expectations were in all likelihood purposely ridiculous in a potential ill-advised attempt to maximize output.

in my experience undue pressure creates stress which can become the focus which takes the focus away from the job at hand.

between this and reading about musk asking an employee at a meeting who hadn’t contributed anything “why he was even there” he’s clearly not some god-leader CEO like sheep make him out to be.

Agreed, they’ll get unemployment. It would almost impossible for Tesla to argue that they suddenly fired that many people for cause. It’s a layoff by another name.

As to future job prospects, it’s unusual for professional HR depts to specify how someone left a company when they get a call from another company doing a background check. It causes liability issues if the person doesn’t get a new job based on what is said.

Getting fired based on your performance is being fired with cause, so these employees should not qualify for unemployment.

That’s not how it actually works. Unless you got caught stealing or something else that is clearly a foreable ofense, you’re pretty much guaranteed to get unemployment.

This was a purge of pro-union employees. As well as elimination of Solar City employees as aftermath of Elon’s SC bailout of his cousin. Plain and simple.
The performance issue is just a smoke screen.

Evidence? Do you have a link?

I can you assure you that Madbro has no evidence whatsoever and regularly pulls his FUD out of his posterior.

Therefore he can not post a link to back up his FUD, I mean assertion.

Ya maybe Tesla should follow in GM steps and keep under performing employees. Then these employees can say we don’t want to put in ACC in our cars, we don’t want to make a 4 wheel drive, we don’t want our car to look good and then Tesla could end up with something that looks as ugly as a chevy bolt and maybe sell tens of thousands of them a year. Or maybe they could do what they are doing now and get half a million pre orders.

The way I feel about these techies is that they are experience hounds wanting some super worker that doesn’t exist.

I also think Tesla is most likely run by miro mangers. In that most place that has a worker review every few days and it’s a form of worker intimidation.In that when there is a review they love to trash talk workers.

They could announce they are moving car production to Mexico like Ford.

Or setting up shop in some other state of the union, would be similar!

Moving to Tennessee is in no way similar to moving to Chihuahua. Not even close. Mercedes seems to be doing quite well in Alabama. I wouldn’t want to move there but I bet you can get motivated employees willing to learn at a price considerably lower than southern California. The question is, will they be able to gain the skill set supposedly offered by locating the factory in southern California. So far, it looks like Mercedes and Boeing (South Carolina) would say, “He** yeah!”

Tesla can only look with longing at the labor rates in Southern California. They are in Northern California.

You can’t easily get skilled workers in other states. They’ve defunded education.

It certainly doesn’t look good. Together with the “production hell” and earlier reports it seems they are pushing people really hard and then they fire a couple of people as a warning to others to work harder. It doesn’t sound like a nice place to work to me.

But you hate Tesla anyway. So who do you think you are fooling here?

Look up the history of the UAW and GM at the Fremont plant.

Or go to YouTube and watch how the UAW treated their own members assembling for a meeting when, by then GM out of desperation partnered with Toyota to teach It’s workers how to build cars.

Just go to Wikipedia and read how NU.M.M.I. Fremont came about, and eventually shuttered it’s doors leaving the city of Fremont a ghost town and thousands of workers in the unemployment line.

Have you no shame?

Fremont is back. Many of the workers at Tesla have returned to good paying employment. They build the finest electric cars in the world.In America.

Any excuse will do for TexasFFUD, who was NEVER going to buy a Tesla anyways based on his long-time rantings about Tesla’s proprietary Supercharging system.

“…people that get fired aren’t eligible for unemployment insurance…”

That’s a glittering generality, and I personally know of at least one exception. Of course, how such situations are handled may well vary from State to State.

Let’s keep things in perspective. According to the Department of Labor on Oct. 2017, the average layoff and discharge rate is 1.2%.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/jolts.pdf

“400 to 700 employees were fired.” Taking the higher end 700, this is 2% of Tesla’s work force. If the number was 400, that’s 1.2% of the work force.

Getting fired is nothing like getting laid off. Getting fired for someone that hasn’t done anything other not being able to work tons of overtime is a cold, cruel, heartless thing for an employer to do.

“average layoff and discharge rate is 1.2%”

Discharge = fired

Getting laid off is very common, especially in construction and manufacturing. Getting fired is much more rare and generally reflects a serious problem with the employee.

Yeah, when you apply for another job and have to admit you were fired, that doesn’t look very good.

No reason to admit it. Just claim it was a layoff. Tesla HR won’t specify how the person left. It’s a liability issue.

I believe the proper term is a “Reduction in Force” or RIF. It actually helps the fired folks that they were all let go at once, since it spreads the “blame”.

“I was let go along with hundreds of others” sounds much better than simply “I was let go”.

After I was laid off, I put on my resume that I was fired. I try to give very low expectations.

LOL!

Sure fire way to succeed in any relationship: lower all expectations, yours and theirs. The lower they are, the more success you’ll enjoy.

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not! I generally agree with the sentiment of underpromisng and overdelivering.

The issue when it comes to employment is that it tends to be hard to get large raises quickly if you come in at a low rate but are really worth much more.

C’mon now; there’s zero chance that these employees are the reason for Model 3 production hell. There’s only one Tesla employee to blame for that.

+1

production hell = no magic button.

I was wondering if you are thinking of an ‘Easy’ Button, as at Staples?

Tesla’s biggest flaw is they keep adding new techie system after techie system to the existing cars. I wouldn’t be surprised if it took a long time to mass produce cars that are more computer and smart phone then automobile.

It’s really about reality meeting expectations.

I’m saying that the Tesla Model 3 is one of the most complex and state of the art mass produced cars entering the road it’s going to take a lot of time to ramp up building them.

M3 was designed to be FAR less complex than S or X models & is noted for the simplicity of it’s layout. It has virtually NO ‘bells & whistles’ unless of course you specify them.

Like FM radio or intermittent wipers! *Zing*

Frankly more companies should get rid of low performers more regularly. I’ve worked for WAY too many companies who let low performers linger on — thus putting way more burden on high performers — who burn out and leave…..leaving an overall poorer performing workforce…..

Sure, laying someone off to reshape your work force is a common, acceptable practice. But firing someone because they are having trouble adapting to your “manufacturing hell” is just cold and brutal.

Why?

what if those “low performers” are simply an aging workfoce? there’s already age-based discrimination when it comes to finding work and you think they should make matters worse by firing them for not being a young buck?

most any non-unionized employer will not keep around people who do not meet expectations of coming to work, being to work on time and doing the job at task along with other more obvious expectations. if however they do you can always run it up the ladder, there’s going to be someone who cares enough to do something about it. unions however are like a bulwark and are heaven for poor workers as they are likely never to get canned regardless of some fairly egregious acts.

I once got called a loser along with some other degrading things when I went to a job interview for a trainee job at Office Max.

Companies and their mangers find training new people with no experience to be the worst thing they can deal with worse then getting eaten alive by a catfish.

As for Unions I like being the member of a Union in that a lot of these companies feel that when they hire you that means they can degrade you by taking cheap shots at you with threats and work you for like their little slave.

If Tesla has work reviews and no Union then it sounds like it’s a miro manger’s paradise.

It might have been Office depot unless office max or office depot are not one in the same if they merged into one company.

Dude, if management treats you like that, FIRE THEM! Quit, don’t take the job. Capitalism doesn’t mean you have to accept the worst, walk away and apply elsewhere. Unions made sense when people had a skill that didn’t travel or they lived in a one business town and couldn’t leave. Today, Unions are parasites for people who need protection from being fired for cause.

Without unions your options are: Choose your master or starve under a bridge.

With union, you also have to suck up to union boss as well as employers. In effect, you have more masters with union, and starve when the business goes under.

If non-union means starving, gee, I wonder how humanity manage to survive for millions of year before the legalized thuggery called unions came to be.

Unions are similar to tenure.

The Union boss has to suck up to you! You become the master of your own labor. The Union boss can’t fire you.

It does add inefficiency, but it seems we’ve not managed to come up with a better way.

“…what if those ‘low performers’ are simply an aging workfoce? there’s already age-based discrimination…”

Dude, you need to find some other place to ride your hobby horse. Tesla’s Fremont assembly plant opened in October 2010; workers there have had at most only seven years to become “aging”.

Thank you. Well said.

This reminds me of when Elon gamed his own performance review, by paper launching the Model X by a certain date, thereby ensuring he was still on track for his billionish stock bonus, due a few years from now. IIRC, the other objectives to be met include a high stock price and high gross margins. I’m sure some Model 3 requirements are in there, but offhand I can’t remember what they are.

I’m pretty sure he did the same thing with the model 3. The 30 pre-production cars delivered in July complete with an NDA and a ban to resell them and then the extremely low deliveries following that suggests that the car isn’t really ready for mass market yet. So what was the show about? Most likely because Musk needed to fulfill one point in some bonus program within a certain timeframe.

NDA? Ban? Did we not get a story here recently, of or from a guy who met an Employee, with a Model 3, and the Employee said he signed NO NDA before getting his Model 3?

So, will we make a correction on this statement, at least until someone shows up with a copy of one, so we get the wording right?

If there’s no NDA, where’s the full, in-depth reviews? Oh wait “everyone loves their FM radio less Model 3s so much they have no time to do reviews”.

“NDA? Ban? Did we not get a story here recently, of or from a guy who met an Employee, with a Model 3, and the Employee said he signed NO NDA before getting his Model 3?”

I didn’t see any such story. And remember, Robert: Don’t believe everything you read.

I don’t think there is any doubt that the NDA is very real, or any doubt that it contains a gag order preventing any buyer of a Model 3 from posting about it to the Internet. Since videos about the Model 3 are getting taken down nearly as fast as they’re posted to the Internet, I also think it’s pretty clear that gag order is still in effect.

Four Electrics posted more FUD:

“This reminds me of when Elon gamed his own performance review, by paper launching the Model X by a certain date…”

Wut? Dude! You need to decide which lie you’re going to tell, and stick with that one!

The Model X was delayed repeatedly in entering production. And you Tesla haters like to ignore the elephant in the room: Tesla had very good reasons to delay putting the MX into production, since they were having a chronic shortage of batteries from Panasonic! What’s the point of putting a second model into production when you’ve got more demand for a model that you’re already making than you can fill? Especially when the gross profit margin on a new model will be lower, because it hasn’t had any of the startup costs amortized away yet?

But then, logic and common sense are never the hallmarks of troll posts like yours, 4E.

Firing so many people at once leads to a hostile work environment, where several midperformers constantly fear for there job.

As well even a lot low performers are well integrated in their teams and are being loved therefor. I made the experience that firing people actually reduces the quality and quantity of work done longterm and the reduces time high performers stay in the company. It sounds like a good idea at first, but it can just bounce back and create the opposite effect. The feeling of an intact friendly supportive work environment is essential for driving humans to their best. Never fire a large amount of workers at once. At least in Europe we know that.

And i really hope this has nothing to do with workers trying to unionize.

I think it’s Tesla trying to mentally break their workers into submission like breaking a horse or a farm animal into submission to plow a field and it’s not going to work.

I work in a very hostel work environment and we have turn over worse then someone making pancakes for a cruise ship buffet line.

The trouble I see is if Tesla’s cars have bad work do to miro manged and disenfranchised workers Tesla could get creamed with car recalls with flawed cars.

I think the reality is Elon Musk wants 5,000 a week cars in December but he might be lucky with 1,200 cars. I think it’s due to the complexity of the internal systems of the model 3.

“I work in a very hostel work environment…”

Pushy’s Grammar Nazi head says:

I think you meant “hostile”. A “hostel” is “an establishment that provides inexpensive food and lodging for a specific group of people, such as students, workers, or travelers.”

Elon Musk should fire himself. Get someone that can actually deliver on promises and doesn’t hammer their work force with unrealistic expectations…then fire them without warning.
Then he’d have time playing with his rockets and boring tunnels and whatnot.

Actually a good point. Would Tesla consider Elon Musk as ‘underperforming’ based on his performance? If he was held to the same level of performance as his employees, how would he do in a performance review?

The Tesla board gave Elon 20 milestones to complete in 10 years. He will have completed the vast majority of them in less than 5. Well ahead of the 10 year target date.

The Tesla haters at the time said Tesla would go bankrupt before reaching any of the goals, and that they were all absurdly aggressive and could never be reached.

This is all documented in the insideevs archives if you want to read about it yourself.

He doesn’t care to read about it because that would interfere with his agenda of trolling and FUDing.

Weird, the rest was cut off somehow.

Was saying that any rational person without Tim and the trolls’ agenda would rate EM in any real world performance review as simply astounding.

Both at what he has accomplished and how much his companies have thoroughly disrupted some of the richest and most powerful industries in the world.

But in the alternative reality of the trolls and FUDsters none of EM’s real accomplishments matter because these cretins want to short or make themselves feel better by ignoring the positive changes made by Musk and his companies.

Yeah… That’s a ridiculous idea. Musk leaves, Tesla crashes and burns. He is the leader of a movement and pushes the company forwards. Despite all of his overpromising, this whole industry wouldn’t be heading in the electrified direction it is now without him and most people realize that, billing him a Messiah (rightly or wrongly).

I don’t see too much in the way “over-promising”, as in ‘We’re going to bring you X’ , but never bring you ‘X’. Much more in the way of inflated timelines, like ‘We hope to bring you X on Tuesday’, but X doesn’t arrive until Saturday.

I’ve said before that I think that if Tesla is still a thing he will leave around 2020, when the company has stabilized and they know their place in the market. Huge visions and ideas are good in the beginning but at some point you need to get down to reality and start making dependable profits quarter after quarter. You can’t expect shareholders to pony up more money for ever expanding grand ideas for perpetuity.

Electric cars, fine. Charging network, well the cars need it. Home battery system, there is some synergy with EV battery making. Solar panels in the form of roof tiles? A very niche market and unlikely to generate any serious money. Big rig trucks? Another tough market to get into and your technology is not in your favor. It means another huge cash injection with huge risk.

What’s next? Electric airplanes? Ferries? Tunnels under cities?

You realize he started the boring company right? That’s your tunnels under cities right there.
https://www.boringcompany.com/

I think the Semi, the Model Y & the Roadster, will all come from Tesla, before Elon’s Electric Vertical Take-Off Jet, but maybe not before he gets an Astronaut on Mars! (2014?)

Big rig trucks? Another tough market to get into and your technology is not in your favor. It means another huge cash injection with huge risk.

There isn’t any “huge risk” in making a technology demonstrator vehicle, and use that to see if there is sufficient interest from trucking fleet operators to justify developing an actual production vehicle. That’s almost certainly what Tesla is doing, and it fits with much of what Elon has said about Tesla’s BEV semi tractor. There are no signs that Tesla is pushing to put that into production, as we’ve seen for models which Tesla actually was planning to produce.

There is a significant cost to develop a fully functional prototype so if you are not serious about producing it it’s a huge waste of money which is extra bad for a company that is losing $400M+ every quarter.

Hey bro did GM ever fire the designers and the managers that approved the look of the bolt? What about the techs who couldn’t figure out how to get 10 year old technology of ACC into a $40,000 car? Clean your house before you come over here and start throwing stones.

LMAO, Mentally Manic MadBro continuing his carpet-bombing ways on all things Tesla with his seven and counting posts already in just this thread.

This shows his pathetic insecurity as he attacks EM who has already successfully disrupted several of the most powerful industries in the world.

Hint for the idiot that you are, your Bolt wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for Tesla not to mention Tesla doing what the other American OEMs could never do in taking large marketshare in the sport/luxury space from the German OEMs.

They have successfully disrupted a static and un-innovative industry that would rather fight improvements like raising the corporate average fuel economy or seat belts for that matter then adapt to positive change.

But if nobody disagrees with your way of thinking, wouldn’t it be kinda boring around here?

I’m the spark (Bolt?) these Tesla fanbois need in their otherwise boring lives. 😉

(Nicola) Tesla created that spark, so you just stole the (All) Spark!

You Sparked couple of times before Boiting.

The facts are the facts. One’s thinking does nothing to change them after the fact. But yes, without the naysayers(particularly the consistent ones) thinking could appear a bit monotone. Just spouting facts has its own inherent risk, boredom.

“But if nobody disagrees with your way of thinking, wouldn’t it be kinda boring around here?”

We have much more interesting and informative discussions in threads which are not infested by trolls. Those who serially post Big Lies and twist the truth beyond the breaking point, never contribute anything worth reading.

There is a huge gulf between an honest difference of opinion, and having trolls motivated by greed continually and intentionally disrupt meaningful discussion and debate.

Tesla wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for the EV1

The EV1 created Tesla??

Apparently it was the death of the EV1 that inspired Musk to start Tesla.

Okay, so Tesla wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for GM destroying the EV1! Got it!

Yup! Elon mentioned that he decided about getting involved in Electric Vehicles, when he watched GM perfoming Badly in their bad ‘Stick Handling’ of the EV1 ‘Puck!’ (My version of his sentiment!)

But Musk didn’t found Tesla Motors, despite his claims. That was Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, aided by Ian Wright.

Which, without Musk, would’ve died a quiet death long ago.

The link is AC Propulsion. They developed the drivetrain for the EV1 and were licensed for the initial Roadster design.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Propulsion

“The EV1 created Tesla??”

You can follow a very clear path of development from the Impact, which was the prototype for the EV1, to AC Propulsion’s tZero, to the Tesla Roadster. Alan Cocconi invented the modern AC integrated motor controller (including the inverter) for the Impact; that system is used in every modern production EV. Cocconi left GM to co-found AC Propulsion, and Tesla Motors got its start by licensing AC Propulsion’s EV tech.

Claiming the EV1 created or even inspired Tesla Motors is stretching the truth a bit, and confusing the timeline, but there certainly is a strong connection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Origins

Well, we always have you Tim, fighting for the little people?

I may be mistaken but isn’t California an ‘at will’ state. If true, then filling lawsuits will prove to be ineffective and ultimately will cause the discharged employees some legal fees with nothing gained.

It is but it’s ultimately up to the employer to demand the employees to sign one.

Technically yes but there are so many exceptions that in reality no. Even moderately well run companies usually require a multi-step process to ensure they don’t run afoul of the exceptions.

For example, if you are fired for the reason that you were late twice in the last six months, and you can find someone who was likewise late twice in the last six months and wasn’t fired, then you have a valid case of discrimination.

“the Silicon Valley automaker apparently has no choice but to stir the point”

Stir the point? I always tell my kids they have to re-read, even after running the spell checker.

What? And Catch the Poot Calling The Keetle Blach?

Why was that Poot Calling Names for, any Why?

And, if the point gets stirred enough, it might become a Pot, in due time, or just go to pot!

GO TESLA GO DESTROY DIRTY GAS GUZZLERS

So sad, I am sure everyone would have put their best efforts, but mistakes happen especially in a new type of plant like this. But everyone would have acquired a lot of knowledge in these days at Tesla.

They are not going to be hired in any other plant as GM also laid off 5000 + workers since the beginning of this year.

I hope Tesla picks up production and rehires them.

As pointed out in other posts here, there’s a big difference between laid off and fired.

I’m not a GM fanboi but to keep things in perspective, you need to mention that GM employs 209,000 and sells millions of vehicles per year that keeps millions others employed who feed their factories.

I think a majority of these Tesla employees will not be returning, “anytime soon”, to the Tesla Freemont factory. HR may bring back a token few, when this is all said and done, after the current management strategy runs its course through the Model 3 ramp up, aka “manufacturering hell”.

The peeps that wanted unions think they are being targeted. I have to wonder if they wanted a union because they didn’t like to work and needed to have that safety net.

Absolutely. Anyone who thinks a union is a good idea is a worthless good for nothing slackard. Who else would think this way?

More seriously, the thinking on this forum is occasionally mind bending.

You got that right.

Or maybe they wanted a union because, you know, before unions we had 9-year-olds working six or seven days a week in factories. Or because before unions you could be fired for your personal views or just because your supervisor got a bug up his butt about something. And you had no recourse. Sure, let’s go back to that kind of thing.

It’s 2017 you know.

So what? Big corporations are still doing that, they just moved to a different country to do it…

Umm. What does that have to do with the price of beans in China? Here in the states… Nobody is going to be employing nine year olds to build a car.

I don’t care what year it is, employees still need the benefit of collective bargaining. The executives of a big company hold too many advantages for individual employees to be bargaining with them individually.

Tesla employees certainly do need a union. But they need a local union which actually represents their needs, not a bloated corrupt parasite like UAW.

Just like socialism is never “done right” because they always fail? I see this reasoning so often by the socialists as if they personally have some magical power in making the impossible work.

Socialism and Collective Bargaining are not one in the same. The “Collective” part of the so called “bargaining agreement”, is and can be based on production goals, that are aligned with a company profits, through increased labor productivity and efficiency.

It is the skimming and corruption, that occurs in entrenched upper labor management, that is Socialisms slow death spiral.

It’s not the same, but what he’s saying is the same. Basically, “if I’m in charge, I can make it work”, which must mean he’s the most brilliant being ever to live.

Unions are there to have additional bosses that workers suck up in order to keep around low productivity workers. If the worker productivity is in line with company’s goals, there’d be no need for “union protection”.

Of course, the “bargaining” part is that if anyone dare get a job with the company without sucking up to union boss(es), he’d have his head cracked open. That’s thuggery, pure and simple. That’s why you don’t cross union picket line.

You do realize that people physically went and applied to work at a company without a union, right? Tesla didn’t go put them in handcuffs and cart them to the factory. People willingly get up everyday to go to work. If they want to work for a union, then they should have applied elsewhere. I don’t need to price of my car going up because people want to slack off. Which is ultimately what unionization means.

Production workers don’t get fired at these levels for incompetence. They are, after all, just production workers. Elon, you were the match to light the fire. The planet thanks you, but it is time for you to find another use for your match.

Sounds like a lousy place to work. Glad I didn’t buy a Tesla. If all those employees were truly underperforming it would surprise me, especially if they were and somehow no blame for this reached the level of upper management, which seems to be the case. It takes bad management to have hired so many bad employees in the first place, and to not clue in to their underperformance within the first few months of employment. Yet somehow no one higher up is at fault. Something smells.

In addition, if even half the canned employees were worth anything, they’ll lose a ton of institutional knowledge and operational continuity from this.

One of my son’s college buddies, very bright and very hard working, interned at Space X but ultimately quit because of the grueling pace and poor treatment.

Maybe they didn’t meet their minimum quota for worshipping Elon?

Well, I think you’ve certainly met your quota for both trolling and showing your crazed jealousy of Elon Musk’s success. In fact, you passed both those benchmarks several posts ago in this comment thread.

+1
Flew by the “benchmark” in a Falcon Heavy!

Judging by your comment to me above, you still have a few more years of saving and credit building before you can buy a Tesla. Sub the silver spoon of course.

My comment was about where human nature can take society absent some restraining influence, in this particular case, unions. It wasn’t “to you,” but in response to your argument. There’s really no need to respond here with baseless personal judgements about me.

That’s what the TSLA trolls do. Even if you bring up a valid point, they attack you (personally) like a bunch of rabid dogs they are.

Foams at mouth much?
No restraint of pen and tounge for us Tesla Trolls?

Next time just tell the truth. No reason to stretch it to make ya sound better. Just sayin.

So why did they fire engineers? Engineers aren’t out there building cars.

Maybe some key engineers were responsible for the design bugs that are hampering Model 3 production.

Whacking 5% of your plant’s workforce seems like a very drastic move. There’s something rotten here. Once again, I’m reconsidering my Model 3 reservation, but not for a reason I ever expected.

1.2-2%, not 5%. Still a lot of people, but no where near 1/20.

Tesla appears to be making a concerted effort to bring in new blood and elevate the performance level of their worker pool.

It’s their prerogative. I do hope union-busting is not part of the motivation. Dropping the lowest performing 2% is not really news-worthy for most any company

The way to scare off future employees is by indiscriminate ‘stirring of the pot’. Nothing says ‘run away from working here’ more than miserable work conditions with the ever present threat of being ‘stirred’.

Nothing says “TROLL” like Madbro or one of the other haters registering a new username to…stir the pot here and troll some more under an assumed username.

Hey tinfoil hat nutjob troll Elon worshipper, Jay can verify I don’t use fake accounts. I embarrass you TSLA fanbois in my own name, why would I need a fake one, genius?
Now go back your Elon cult worship ala NK and the real “rocket man”.

Actually, you do a good job embarASSing yourself as the mentally ill troll/Tesla hater nut-job that you are.

Everyone sees it and you and a few other like-minded useful idiots have become a detriment to the Tesla threads here as you spew your mental hate towards all things Tesla.

New accounts can be faked.

seriously you guys sound like the DC movie apologists who thought disney was paying critics to give warner bros. comic book movies bad reviews.

some people are just more critical than you, and IMO you’re the detriment to society for in that equation. just like anyone still defending the republican platform virtually any single issue.

that is to say that if republicans even have a platform that amounts to anything more than anti-obama era democratic stances which straight from the horse’s mouth was/is the agenda both during-and-post obama.

So, let me get this straight: the folks who want to unionize are the ones who are underperforming? I don’t think all unions are rotten, but the ones who send you flyers and tell you how to vote in elections are clearly overstepping their function.
Such people will likely be replaced with replicants about the time VW releases an EV, or we start building off-world colonies.

“So, let me get this straight: the folks who want to unionize are the ones who are underperforming?”

Clearly you do not have it straight. Read what this article actually states as fact, not what The Mercury News insinuates as part of its union agitprop.

A few of the employees which got fired (or terminated) were pro-union, and the newspaper is using that as an excuse to insinuate that “must be” the cause. Unless someone can show figures that a disproportionate number of those terminated were actively pro-union, then it’s just another case of union activist propaganda… of which we’ve been seeing far too much from a certain newspaper.

WOW, outraged whining over Tesla terminating ~2% of its workforce?

I wonder just how many negative comments there would have been if InsideEVs was around in 2008, when Elon Musk took over Tesla Motors and fired… well how many did he fire? About 10% of the employees, according to Martin Eberhard, who isn’t exactly an unbiased source… but a Business Insider article claims it was a quarter of the work force! (source below) Of course, Tesla had far fewer employees back then, but firing one out of every four people… no wonder we heard about a morale problem after Musk took over!

However, Tesla wasn’t a public stock back in 2008, so nobody would have been short-selling the stock; therefore far less incentive for anti-Tesla trolls to infest pro-EV forums and write serial bashing comments back then.

And yeah, it would be very nice if InsideEVs would let us block the trolls who have infested the comments here. It gets very tiresome seeing so many, many comment threads — including this one — being hijacked by a serial anti-Tesla FUDster making the first post.

source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-the-origin-story-2014-10

Cry me a river, Tesla propagandist trolls. You are one that should be banned let alone blocked.

So you’re saying you want whitewashed echo chamber to bask in where those who are different are not welcomed? Sounds like Trump to me.

This is normal. A lot of people don’t have the speed, attitudes or fitness for production. I work in an aircraft MRO and I am sick of having to make up for other people because they are to fat and slow.

Yes fat and slow, I was watching local news last night and they ran a story about hurricane Irma victims in Lakeland Florida that had to wait 4 hours to get emergency food stamps, the line was very long but many of the people on line were obese. If you’re supposedly hungry and malnourished why are you obese?

and this, ladies and gentlemen, is apparently the face of tesla defenders — poverty and body shamers. what a wonderful group to be a part of for sure.

now that we have a cockroach for a president all of the little cockroaches have no issue coming out into the light.

but more on point, firing employees who under-perform when warranted should happen on a case-by-case basis not en masse. this is clearly not normal.

p.s.s. I’m 34, and at 5’10 I’ve probably never weighed more than 160 lbs. born a vegetarian and have maintained an organic overly-healthy (at least compared to the vast majority of others) diet for at least the past several years. I have more energy than any of my co-workers not downing “energy drinks” and have a very healthy work ethic. but I also know that I’m simply fortunate. my parents were given the knowledge of healthy eating and passed it on.

so my mantra when it comes to others like those you seem to mention here? ‘there but for the grace of God…’ because I see them as less fortunate which they clearly are. jerks.

I know someone that is very obese and on several medications that are very expensive, so give me $500 to pay for the medications because my friend is clearly less fortunate than you, thank you in advance.

About a decade ago I worked for a company (automotive supplier) that had a habit of firing people during the time leading up to Thanksgiving and before Xmas. It was a financial trick to tweak the 4th quarter numbers…but I’m sure that’s not what’s going on here.

Not making a brief for Tesla here, but as a private company they do have the right to discharge employees, whether for cause, or not.
That said, it has been my experience that those companies which have UNIONS, need them.

Age discrimination (whether it has happened in this case, or not) is difficult to prove.

But in the end, Mr. Musk, et al, must decide how he wants to configure his work force.

Since it hasn’t been proven he has violated any California, nor Federal employment laws, and the details of those fired are sketchy – its not really my business to critique his decision making, although I do feel for those arriving at the short end of the stick.

This looks like rank and yank management style.
Yahoo has tried it and so has Microsoft.

Microsoft abandoned it a few years ago.

It never turns out better in the long run as it then becomes political and hard to truly quantify well.