Tesla Details New Supercharging Fees

JAN 13 2017 BY JAY COLE 93

For the most part new Tesla owners will be charged to close market rates per kWh (at least where the law allows)

For the most part, new Tesla owners will be charged to close market rates per kWh (at least where the law allows)

Not so long ago Tesla announced that new Model S and Model X owners, as well as future Model 3 owners, would face billing at Supercharging stations, ending the previous “free for life” charging program for its EVs.

Originally, as of January 1st, 2017 all new purchases of a Tesla Model S or Model X would include a yearly allowance of 400 kWh of charging free per year (good for about ~1,000 miles…depending on how one drives and where), then an unknown fee system would be implemented for amounts of charge received above that preset yearly amount.

Texans pay 16 cents per minute for charging over 60kW, 8 cents per minute when charging under 8 kW

Texans pay 16 cents per minute for charging over 60kW, 8 cents per minute when charging under 60 kW

That purchase dateline was then ultimately extended to January 15th, but with the deadline now upon us, Tesla has detailed how the billing process will work, and the fees associated with the new program.

The company stresses that the fee is not set up as a “profit center”, and the company has accordingly priced usage fees basically to recover costs and expand/maintain the network.

“We are only aiming to recover a portion of our costs and set up a fair system for everyone; this will never be a profit center for Tesla…To put the affordability of Supercharging into perspective, customers will pay about $15 for a road trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles, about $120 from Los Angeles to New York, about €60 from Paris to Rome, and about ¥400 from Beijing to Shanghai.”

For the most part pricing is based per kWh used, at least where the law allows.  For example:

  • California: 20 cents per kwh
  • New York: 19 cents per kwh
  • Florida: 13 cents per kwh

In those places where specific ‘per kWh metering’ is not permitted, charging is initated by the minute, on two tiers based on the rate of charge.  With the second tier’s cost being double that of the first

  • Tier 1: under 60 kW charging rate
  • Tier 2: over 60 kW charging rate

Using Vermont as an example, Tier 2 is billed at 22 cents per minute, while Tier 1 is 11 cents.  For many provinces in Canada ‘per minute’ billing also applies:  Ontario and Quebec is billed at 26 cents (CAD) for Tier 2, and 13 cents for Tier 1, while British Columbia is billed 28 and 14 cents respectively.

As for the transaction itself, that all happens online in the owners “MyTesla” account, where the 400 kWh worth of yearly credits are tracked, and payments can be made for extended use.  To check out rates in your neck of the woods, click here.

The new fee structure should not only ease the costs of Supercharger operation for Tesla, but also assist in easing congestion at popular Supercharging stations around the world.  Further to that congestion/overpopulation issue, Tesla also recently announced that it is implementing a 40 cent per minute “idling” fee for those EV owners in the US who use busy Supercharging spaces to park at after a charge is complete.

Tesla Statement on New Supercharger Usage program:

Building the Supercharger Network for the Future

Tesla created the Supercharger network to make long-distance travel a seamless experience for drivers. Cars have always represented independence and the freedom to travel wherever and whenever people want to go. To enable this freedom, building a charging network that provides quick, convenient, and long-distance travel is critical to the adoption of electric vehicles. One of our top priorities this year is to significantly increase capacity of our Supercharger network.

Tesla Supercharging Fee Structure

Tesla Supercharging Fee Structure

In November, we announced a change in the Supercharger program that allows us to reinvest in the network, accelerate its growth, relieve congestion, and bring all Tesla owners, current and Model 3, the best Supercharging experience. Tesla Model S and Model X cars ordered after January 15, 2017 will receive 400 kWh (kilowatt-hour) of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) annually on the anniversary of their delivery. We carefully considered current Supercharger usage and found that 400 kWh covers the annual long-distance driving needs of the majority of our owners. As a result, most owners will continue to enjoy the benefits of Supercharging on road trips at no additional cost.

If customers travel beyond their annual credit, they will be charged a small fee to Supercharge. In North America, pricing is fixed within each state or province; overseas, pricing is fixed within each country. In most regions, Tesla owners will pay per kWh as it’s the fairest way to pay for the exact energy used. However, due to local regulations, in several regions we will charge per minute of usage instead, though we are actively working with regulators to update the rules. What’s important is that in every region, Supercharging will remain simple, seamless and always significantly cheaper than gasoline. We are only aiming to recover a portion of our costs and set up a fair system for everyone; this will never be a profit center for Tesla. Customers can just plug in, charge up, and access their charging history on our website.

Like Tesla's earlier "Coast to Coast" Supercharging trip, the company likes to talk costs between LA and NY while paging for supercharging:

Like Tesla’s earlier “Coast to Coast” Supercharging trip, the company likes to talk costs between LA and NY while paying for supercharging: in this case $120 bucks

To put the affordability of Supercharging into perspective, customers will pay about $15 for a road trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles, about $120 from Los Angeles to New York, about €60 from Paris to Rome, and about ¥400 from Beijing to Shanghai.

We are excited to continue the expansion of the world’s fastest and most sophisticated charging network.

Further Supercharging Details:

The Supercharger network enables long distance travel. Stations are strategically placed to minimize stops and are conveniently located near desirable amenities like restaurants, shops and WiFi hot spots. Each station contains multiple Superchargers to get you back on the road quickly.

Below are additional program details which apply to Model S and X ordered after January 15, 2017.

  • 400 kWh (~1,000 miles) of Supercharger credits are awarded annually.
  • For usage above the complimentary annual credits provided, a small fee applies.
  • In North America, pricing is fixed within each state or province. Internationally, pricing is fixed within each country. All prices include taxes and fees.
  • Where possible, owners are billed per kWh (kilowatt-hour), which is the most fair and simple method. In other areas, we bill for the service per minute.
  • When billing per minute, there are two tiers to account for changes in charging speeds, called “tier 1” and “tier 2”.
    • Tier 1 applies while cars are charging at or below 60 kW and tier 2 applies while cars are charging above 60 kW. Tier 1 is half the cost of tier 2.
    • Tier 1 also applies anytime your vehicle is sharing Supercharger power with another car.
  • Supercharger pricing information may be viewed on the 17” touchscreen and is summarized below.

Supercharging is simple and convenient—just plug in and charge up. Supercharging history is automatically populated in your website account showing the credits used or, if applicable, the amount billed. Tesla is committed to ensuring that Supercharger will never be a profit center.

Cost for a trip from Beijing to Shanghai? ¥400

Cost for a trip from Beijing to Shanghai? ¥400

Frequently Asked Questions

If I don’t use my 400 kWh of annual credits will they roll over to the next year?
Unused credits do not roll over to the next year. Credits are reset to 400 kWh each year, on the anniversary of the delivery date. If the car transfers ownership, credits are reset on the date of the transfer.

How are customers billed if they use all of their free annual credits?
Customers are billed automatically via a credit card linked to their website account. After each Supercharger session, customers can view the session details online. Supercharger history and downloadable invoices may also be viewed online. For more details, see our Payment Terms for Services.

Why do some locations bill per kWh and some per minute?
Tesla believes that owners should pay for energy delivered to the vehicle and therefore we price the service on a per kilowatt-hour (kWh) basis for the global network. In some regions, regulations and requirements make it difficult for companies that are not utilities to sell electricity for vehicle charging per kWh. In these places, we offer the Supercharger service at a per minute price, with two tiers to account for the dynamic charge rate.

I thought Supercharging was free. Why do I have to pay now?
If your Tesla was ordered by January 15, 2017, it comes with free Supercharger access for the life of the car. You will not pay for Supercharger use but idle fees may be assessed if your vehicle remains connected to a Supercharger after the charge session is complete.

How much does Supercharging cost Tesla? 
Our costs vary based on both operational and electricity costs but Supercharging is offered to our customers below the price that it costs us to provide the service. Similar to our Service Centers, this will not be a profit center for Tesla.

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93 Comments on "Tesla Details New Supercharging Fees"

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Seems like a fair deal to Tesla customers.

But this pricing will cause problems for the other independent EVSE companies, really about on par for retail electricity rates. At least when Tesla didn’t charge nobody could compare costs.

Is there really that much crossover between Superchargers and those other charging networks?

The only customers of those other networks that can charge on the Supercharger network are Tesla owners. None of their other customers can use Superchargers, so it isn’t like they are going to lose those customers.

It is just down to attracting Tesla owners. That will likely be more of a question of location, because the Supercharger is faster than any other current charging network. If there is a Supercharger nearby to compete with, they would likely attract more Tesla’s due to speed, regardless of price.

For now I just don’t see there being a problem there.

The rates are about twice as high as most DCFC operators charge around the world, so Tesla defintly isn’t even breaking even on expenses.

It is an included cost in the price of a brand new Tesla. They actually make their money up front at POS.

Areas that charge by the minute should be forced to change. If not they have to bill at gas stations by the minute too. What a crazy way to bill.

Places with these restrictions are typically places where the utilities have forced laws onto the books to limit competition. These laws are usually unfair once they get examined outside of the context used to put them into the lawbooks and end up eventually getting repealed.

This is much like the “you must sell cars through franchised dealers, for your protection” laws that are preventing Tesla (and other companies) from selling direct to customers.

The laws were never, “you must sell cars through franchised dealers, for your protection”.

In the early days of automobile sales, the franchised dealer laws were originally (and quite legitimately) set up to protect dealers from automobile manufacturers which, in some cases, once a local dealer had seeded the market, would swoop in, undercut the dealer, a corner the market for themselves. The laws protected the investment of dealers in establishing their local markets.

Today, dealers are *illegitimately* using these old laws to protect themselves from other forms of retailing. They’ve even successfully lobbied to change the laws to not, as they once did, protect only Ford dealers from Ford, or only Chevrolet dealers from General Motors, etc., but to protect any dealer from direct sales by any manufacturer… which does nothing to protect consumers, and now simply “protects” dealers from any form of non-dealer competition, such as direct sales by a company like Tesla.


Whether to protect the dealers or consumers make no difference. The core of it is government is dictating means of distribution, and that is simply wrong.

But going to the argument that dealer franchise laws were designed to protect the dealers from MFR. Once te word gets out that MFR swooped in and put the dealers out of business, no dealer would work with that MFR. New dealers brave enough may insist on iron-clad contract to prohibit such occurrence. There is no need for franchise law dictated by the government when civil contract would’ve sufficed.

Civil contract doesn’t work when one side has no power.

Dealers would have to negotiate protections into their contracts with the manufacturers. And the manufacturers simply hold all the cards and wouldn’t go for it.

On top of that, have you ever worked with suppliers? There is a saying (not entirely true) that you cannot win suing a supplier. Why? Because your supplier can cut you off or modify the deal. Let’s say you sue your supplier and win $10M. What happens next time you negotiate prices with your supplier? Your supplier jacks up their prices by $10M and gets the money right back.

It’s a difficult situation and it’s quite possible the dealers do need some legal protection.

Civil contracts do work when you have dealer amount of money (ie, million). Even patent trolls running out of their mom’s basement are able to bully big companies.

If dealers served any purpose, MFR who undercut in one area lost that advantage when going to new areas. If the dealer served no purpose, there’s no need to artificially prop them up (seems to be the case now). Why protect extra baggage that cost consumers needlessly?

I do work with suppliers, and some (one in particular) tried to screw me over after years of loyal business. They promptly lost out on that and all subsequent projects, some really big ones. It took some effort on my part, but I have all the power, not them. Not sure why you feel like a victim when you’re the buyer. Simply take the business elsewhere.

So, you think you know more about the situation than all the lawmakers in all of those many States which passed laws to protect dealers from the very real predatory business practices by the auto manufacturers?

Next you’ll be telling us there’s no need for anti-monopoly laws. All those gas stations which Standard Oil drove out of business surely could have banded together to fight Standard, right? /snark

Or maybe, just maybe Sparky, the wishful thinking indulged in by you and others who idolize Ayn Rand, doesn’t represent reality.


Thank you. It’s clear that some here need the history lesson to be repeated.


Au contraire!

Why should charging by the minute be “crazy”? Of all the models that have actually been tested, charging per minute is the best model leading to the best utilization. It’s also the fairest, in my opinion.

How is it fair for someone to hog a charger for half an hour trickle charging and paying almost nothing for it? This is what per kWh charging leads to. It’s like people sitting at a restaurant for hours buying nothing but a coffee while other customers must be turned away because there are no tables available.

“In most regions, Tesla owners will pay per kWh as it’s the fairest way to pay for the exact energy used.”

Indeed it’s the most fair for billing, and certainly it’s better than the per-visit billing method that some suggested.

But for alleviating the “Tragedy of the commons” problem, per-minute billing would have been better, because that would have discouraged people from staying past getting an 80% charge, when power really tapers off and you don’t get that much energy per minute.

A strict per-minute billing method would have been seen as unfair, because — for example — if two cars are charging on the same Supercharger, then maximum power is reduced. But there could have been a two-tier price system based on one car charging vs. two.

Oh well, I shouldn’t complain. No matter what price scheme Tesla chose, it was going to have to be a compromise. This scheme will be perceived as more “fair” than the per-minute scheme, so should result in fewer complaints about unfair pricing. But it won’t do as much to eliminate Supercharger congestion.

Hopefully the idle fees will take care of that. It would be interesting to see what affect it has on busy chargers now.

Per ” if two cars are charging on the same Supercharger, then maximum power is reduced. But there could have been a two-tier price system based on one car charging vs. two.”; I read that is what they said they would do!

Mayber per kWh until the car ecceeds 90% fully charged, the a flat per minute connection rate would be good? However, they already charge a good amount for ‘idling’ at the Superchargers!

Hmmm, well the over/under 60 kWh for a Tier 1 /Tier 2 system would have a somewhat similar effect, yes. I was thinking about the over/under 60 kWh as mainly intended to deal with tapering off the current as the battery pack is approaches full charge, but perhaps you’re right.

Wish I could link to Sparky’s excellent graph(s) of how Tesla Superchargers taper off current over time, but I never can find those at his blot spot. 🙁

This will continue to be a problem because the free for life crowd are still clogging up the city superchargers. Tesla will really have to continue building those out.

The remote superchargers continue to be pretty empty though. I just took a trip from LA to Mammoth Lakes and stopped by the Mojave, Lone Pine and Mammoth Lakes superchargers. I saw two Model S’s the entire trip.

” Instead, any income from the network will be reinvested into new Superchargers. Model 3 cars will not include free Supercharging but the company has not announced if they will come with any complimentary charging.”


Hooray, guilt free local charging.

Once again, Tesla is being way too generous. Per kWh pricing means people can plug-in to the last electron despite the taper even if they may not need it. This is especially likely if the driver is away while supercharging; he will only return when absolutely necessary, which is close to 100%. That’s really not fair to others waiting who may only need few minutes to get to where they need to go. Time is worth a lot more to people than kWh.

It may not be a problem now, but once 100 million Tesla 3 hit the road (my conservative estimate), there will be problems. It only takes a few to spoil it for everyone when you’re talking almost billion cars.

At least it’ll be good for early adopters, but I hope Tesla revise their plan in the future to discourage plug-in when not needed.

this doesn’t change anything other than letting us know the cost. Those people would have done that anyway, regardless of pricing. They already don’t care.
Fairness isn’t in their heads, just what’s in it for them.
It why we can’t have nice things……

Maybe the following scenario just came to my mind cause I momentarily have a quite negative perception of human beings in general.

What if someone who really hates EV buys 20 model 3 and then actively blocks the largest supercharger location on purpose on a peak day (let’s say vacation starts) (that someone will likely not be a private person unless he’s a TSLA shorter (yeah I used the s-word))

I call this one the SC-DOS attack! (not sure if it would be a DDos, but hey who cares…)

$24/hr ($0.40/min) parking fee on crowded supercharger is pure profit to Tesla. If the idiot(s) were to do that, that’d be paying $480/hr to Tesla. Bring it on! 🙂

Thanks for doing the math (I was too lazy, as usual…)

Nonetheless I am sure that big oil can easily afford such an amount.

A DDos attack always costs something. It’s just a question if bashing Tesla is worth it.

On the other hand such an attack could produce media attention, and to my best knowledge any attention is positive for demand, that way the attack would backfire.

(I realise that I got lost in a hypothetical sc-DDos war…)

” Per kWh pricing means people can plug-in to the last electron despite the taper even if they may not need it. ”


Thing is most don’t use the supercharger that way. In most cases they are on a trip and only taking on enough charge to get to the next supercharger.

I’m a bit more concerned about the flat per minute charges. What if 2 people are charging on the same number-say 2A and 2B. In that case they are getting lowered power levels but still paying the flat per minute usage…..or did I miss something on that. Perhaps Tesla discussed it and I missed it.

Sharing means there’s extra demand. Extra per kWh by billing per minute could be considered demand charge. It’s sort of like Uber “surge pricing” but more natural in execution and built-into hardware already.

If such is done (per minute billing), people like NCTC Leaf drivers who pinch $0.15 that switch to Tesla would go around looking for not-in-demand superchargers rather than crowd out cars already there. Only those desperate will seek to share, and even they will look for cars already tapered much to optimize their own cost. This will help freeing up Supercharger for those who really need it.

If the site is virtually full, extra cost should be borne by everyone there by being at that particular location and at that particular time. Maybe they will seek alternative sites next time.

But if it’s billed by kWh, all these advantages go away.

Btw, I think quite a bit about best way to implement DCFC, and Tesla hardware (sharing) and per minute billing works the best. Another is auction type of pricing which could allow lot more “sharing” even with limited power charger, but people generally don’t like such things except for ebayer.

Thx for the response. I just missed part of teslas write up. If there are 2 cars using the same charger and power is reduced then you only get charged tier 1 rates.

100 million Tesla 3! Is it a typo? We won’t be alive to see 100 milion Model 3 on the road.

No kidding… the best sellers in the US do a half million units a year… 200 years worth of record-breaking F150 sales to get as many of them on the road as you are projecting M3s.

I could see 1 million by early 2020s, that would seem much more reasonable to me.

You’re such pessimist. Assuming 500K cars built in first year and exponential increase in production, 100M is nothing. Only thing stopping for more might be Tesla Y or the return of SparkEV.

Your joke posts always makes me laugh. 🙂 You should go professional. 😛

Sounds reasonable; interesting that they stuck with a per-kWh model where possible, and that prices very per region — it might a bit less transparent for customers, but strengthens the claim than they don’t intend for this to be a profit center (which I don’t think is inherently bad, but prob. not realistic at this point in EV adoption).

The S/X have the supercharging enabled and 400kWh included in all models; it’ll be interesting to see what Tesla ends up charging for the “activate SC HW” option on the Model 3 .

I would imagine the M3’s will be equipped with the ability to accept higher charging rates to cope with the newer chargers Tesla will be bringing in soon, this will help with congestion but not sure how current vehicles will be able to charge much quicker without being modified ?

A two tier system of pricing under & over 80% would have helped but they have to start somewhere, it’s not something set in stone, they can modify the pricing at a later date if the problem persists.

Is there a max for the 40cent idle fee?

It doesn’t add up unless you’re at a full station. So, crossing the country during the wee hours probably means we’ll be ok.

Should there be a maximum?

I can see there might be some special case where the driver was physically unable to return and move the car, but other than that, I can’t think of any good reason why the “idle fee” or “parking fee” should have a cap. At some point, a tow truck should haul away the car, if it sits there for too many hours. That would be the cap, I suppose; once the car is hauled away, it no longer accumulates idle fees.

This will solve nothing. When was the last time you didn’t fill your $40K+ ICE because gas was too expensive? Never. A car needs fuel to work and people need their cars to work. When someone needs to charge they need to charge. Nobody supercharges because it’s free, because it’s already not free; it takes 20-60 minutes of your valuable time.

If you see the behavior of Leaf drivers who get free charge and those who don’t, you’d understand why any pricing is going to make a big difference. Those who pay disconnect at about 80%, sometimes less. Those who get free stay in their cars for full 30 minutes. Demographics of Tesla 3 is more like Leaf drivers than Tesla S/X drivers.

“Nobody supercharges because it’s free, because it’s already not free; it takes 20-60 minutes of your valuable time.”

Another FUDster post. Gee thanks, “Four Electrics”, what would we do without you? I’d love to find out!

If misers didn’t exist, then the word “miser” wouldn’t exist.

And if people using local Superchargers instead of charging at home/work wasn’t a problem, then Tesla Motors wouldn’t have to take steps to stop it.

It’s amazing how far some people go out of their way to be cheapkates; even rich people. Ebeneezer Scrooge is fictional character, but that portrait of a miser is all too real.

Rich people are rich because they are miserly with their fortunes.

That’s not true. Rich people spend hell of a lot more money than poor people. Difference is the money the rich (or to be rich) spend on is something that brings value while the poor spend on things that turn to junk. I’m often amazed when I visit my “rich” (upper 2%) friends how few things they have, but they are high quality stuff while the poor friend (maybe bottom 40%) have wall rack full of DVD and other pop-culture junk.

It’s not about being miserly, but being wise.

I’m not sure you are aware how judgmental that sounds. It comes off as if you think poor people are poor because they are not as smart as rich people.

I tell it like I see it. If I cared about being politically correct to hide the reality, I would’ve said the rich just got lucky, but it’s lot more than bad luck to be poor.

There was blog or paper or something that studied kids though adulthood for many decades. An indicator of rich (or well-off) vs poor was their childhood ability to delay gratification. Splurging on pop culture as adult is lack of impulse control.

Now some who get easily offended would say that’s not always the case, and obviously nothing in life is 100%. Make up your own mind as to what I say is true, or just offensive dribble to piss off “libtards” as Scott Franco might say.

“I tell it like I see it.”

Yes, and you’ve made it entirely too clear in a few recent aggressively repulsive, bigoted comments that “the way you see it” is seeing the poor as filthy, diseased vermin who wallow in their own waste.

Reminds me of a certain notorious propaganda film which intercut scenes shot in a Polish ghetto (in the original meaning of “ghetto”) with scenes of rats swarming. I’m sure you share the same outlook toward humanity as the people who made that film and similar propaganda.


I’m sure all the Usual Suspects who bash everything Tesla will fabricate lots of Concerns about a charging network they will never use.

But this is entirely reasonable and a good balance of priorities, without being punitive.

Obviously there are always trade-offs with absolutely any price structure, anywhere between free and a bazillion dollars/second. But this pricing structure is very balanced for most typical users who only need free supercharging for typical distances each year (plus the odd local charge in an emergency).

At the same time, it makes heavy users and commercial users contribute for their oversized usage, helping to pay for more superchargers to be built to offset their heavy use.

Meanwhile, nobody is locked out of charging. There are no bans on local charging like so many commenters claimed there would be. Like so typical on Tesla stories, none of that FUD turned out to be true.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t mind giving few extra bucks to Tesla when using superchargers. I already do with eVgo, and Tesla has far better network. I suspect many people will be ok if Tesla made small bit of money from superchargers if the policy is reasonable and deter bad behavior.

I think there are likely people who would agree with you. That is certainly still within that range of perfectly reasonable rates I spoke of, and there would be nothing wrong with Tesla making a profit on it.

But I think Tesla would consider those profits to be small potatoes vs. being able to sell more cars by drawing in buyers with 1000 miles of free charging, followed by the lowest charging rates on the market after that.

I don’t have a problem with them making money off of charging. But I like the idea of them selling more EV’s even better. The more EV’s we get into the hands of more drivers, the more we all win.

The only people I personally spoke with who wanted or expected a ban seemed to be Tesla owners or fans who were pissed off about supercharger abuse. I remember Pushmi-Pullyu mentioned local charging should possibly be banned, but didn’t think Tesla would actually do it. I talked to another Tesla owner on here who thought Tesla would ban local charging (although I don’t remember who off the top of my head.)

Though I’m sure there were Anti-EV ICE holes who tried to use this to spread lies, most non Tesla EV owners seem to like the idea of Tesla just charging by time or kwh used. After all, it’s how the rest of us do public charging heh.

Plus, once EVs hit the mainstream, Tesla could expand access if they wanted to. Superchargers could be a reliable, cross platform revenue stream for Tesla the way iTunes has been for Apple. Seems unlikely right now, but I *rarely* say never. 😉

“I remember Pushmi-Pullyu mentioned local charging should possibly be banned…” Then you “remember” something that I never, ever suggested. I certainly do advocate that abusing use of Superchargers as a substitute for charging at home or at work should be banned. But there are plenty of reasonable scenarios where local use of Superchargers would be entirely legitimate, and I’ve previously mentioned those. A couple of examples: You just returned from a long trip, but (1) you need to go out for the evening, or (2) you need to leave on another trip immediately. I’m sure reasonable people can think of other legitimate reasons for local use of Superchargers. What I have very strongly argued against is those (fortunately few) who assert that it’s “okay” to use Superchargers for everyday charging if you don’t have regular access to an EV charger where you live or where you work. Such people shouldn’t be driving a BEV. They should trade it in on a gasmobile or a PHEV. And until they do, at worst they should be using public “fast chargers” or, at worst, Tesla destination chargers. In no case should they be using Superchargers, which were built to support long-distance travel… and… Read more »

I apologize if I have misstated your position, I had not intended to do so.

Having looked back on the original discussion, I had asked MikeG “So, what, do you literally want Tesla to ban local charging at Superchargers by apartment dwellers?”

You had responded directly to this quote with “If you mean using Superchargers instead of charging at home or at work, then: Yes. Absolutely. Without question. Supercharging is intended to support long-distance travel, it is most definitely not intended for everyday charging.”

I now understand your position better on this, and your original statement makes sense. I still think the best way to handle overuse would be to charge abusers more per charge the more they charge a month. As in, the more often you charge locally, the higher your charging rate would be. Kind of in between your position and the one Tesla has taken.

Not that it matters, most superchargers aren’t near high density residential areas (around here at least). I was just anticipating a future where Electric cars become the norm and Tesla might decide to start building local superchargers.

Sounds reasonable to me, and early adopters have been given a freebie, as it probably should be.

grrrr.. no rollover
if the price drops $2k (the original option price) no prob with per kWh, me.. but Why do a cell-phone/data market ploy and rob the long distance users – to what gain? IF you didn’t use -any- this year, it stands to reason that that will continue. WHEN you need a lot for the road-trip that SC was originally intended for, you have bank.

No roll-over for subsequent owners, sure, but why quibble about the Unused 400 kWh? Guess I’m getting old and cheap, lol.

I agree, at least for USA buyers which I am more aware, the 400 kWh yearly credits should roll-over, cuz most folks buy their EVs in the USA towards the end of the year to get their Fed Credits right away.

If there is no-rollover, I see a metric-ton of Teslas trying to supercharge towards the end of the year, just before their anniversary dates.

Looks too cheap. Luckily, they can modify the prices and way of billing if they feel this countermeasure is not working.

Personally, I think the best way to charge for charging is by the minute since supercharging is more about providing a service than energy.

That would have to depend on the charging rate, 120kw v 800kw + ?

This fee system doesn’t make a lot of sense. In California there are tiered rates and people charging their cars can easily pay $0.35/kWh to do so. With this fee structure these people will still have a financial incentive to supercharge instead of charging at home.

It will cut down on the excess charging some. Simply because as others have pointed out, free chargers are always much more popular than fee chargers, no matter how small the fee.

But I think Tesla would be wise to charge enough that customers do not come out ahead by supercharging. And in California this won’t cut it.

In the end, it’s not like Tesla can’t modify the program later. If necessary they can change it up again.

If you are sitting around a supercharger for an hour to collect on the 15 cents/KWH arbitrage then you are the biggest Tesla owning loser.

Except Tesla 3 will be Leaf demographics, and that’s exactly what they do: sit around and sometime wait for other cars to finish DCFC to save $0.15/kWh ($0.19/kWh around here). I agree that it’s a stupid thing to do, but that’s what lots of people do.

I wait for other cars to finish because I need a quick charge, not because it’s cheaper. I can’t imagine anyone doing that, actually, considering that it takes valuable time and effort to use a quick charge station.

Wasting time at DCFC when you can charge at home makes no sense to me, but that’s what free charging Leaf drivers do. They are usually around 70% and sit there for whole 30 minutes while the car is charging close to 4 kW at the end.

“In those places where specific ‘per kWh metering’ is not permitted”

I have long suspected that this is the main reason why Tesla made supercharging free. It allowed them to avoid thorny regulator hoops that they would have to run through. But now that they are getting big, they can’t stick with that system because it causes bad consumer behavior.

The common anti-EV meme prior to the Model S and Superchargers was that building and operating a network of chargers across the US would be so outrageously expensive. Companies running the chargers would have to charge 10 or 20 times the cost of the electricity. Making it 10 times more expensive to drive an EV from LA to NY than driving a gas car. And it would take over a month having to stop every 50 miles to charge, and you would spend more time charging than driving.

So Tesla did exactly the opposite. They built a charging network and cars that could drive hours between charges, charge in the time it takes to get a decent meal, and to really kill the anti-EV memes, they offered free charging for “Long Distance Travel”.

It was a trifecta of proving the critics wrong about using EV’s for road trips, culminating in this Victory Tour across the entire US in less than a week, done by Elon Musk and his family:


We don’t hear those silly memes anymore, 5 years later. So it clearly worked.

What is the charge per kWh in The Netherlands?

In Netherlands the price is 0,2€/kWh according to Teslas webpage.


Thank you for your reply.

Will there also be a Tier 1 rate and a Tier 2 rate (like in the US)?

Would the rate of €0.20 be the Tier 1 rate or the Tier 2 rate?

No tiers on the per kWh rates. That’s only for where they have to charge by the minute due to regulations.


Not knowing all the details and not owning a Tesla myself I’d like to suggest that the 400kWh credit can a) be transferred to the next year (so will never expire) and b)can be transferred to the account of another Tesla holder.

According to Teslas webpage the answere is no on both this question, you should probably be happy that Tesla is offer some free.

I like it. It is fair, even generous, and in many places where there is a high day and low night electricity price at home, this proposed KWh price will make it more interesting to charge at night at home, which will is in line with the sought after main objective of avoiding local supercharging. So that is well done.

I also notice that the system will not make it impossible for condo dwellers to recharge their vehicles if they really have no other possibility. So condo dweller without garage and destination charger access will not be completely excluded from owning an ev. Of course, that is not the intent of superchargers since they are there to allow long distance driving, but this makes a window of tolerance possible for those special cases. This would not have been possible if local supercharging had bluntly been made impossible. With this, having an ev is always possible.

As well as those of us with restrictive HOA’s.

Yes but those tend to become rare since they discover that gas cars give more oil stains on the ground, noise in the building and demand much higher ventilation costs, so they start changing mind. The more if they can charge an extra for places equipped with a destination charger, that’s actually extra revenue. EV friendliness also tends to attract better people.

A clean, quiet, nice smell air, basement parking place with more revenue and less ventilation costs. Some would rightly, rather start ban gas cars in their parking lot.

20 cnt/kWh in CA is equivalent to around 40 mpg gas car:
$2.5/gal / ($.20/kWh*33.7kWh/g.e.)*100 mpge
It may be “mouse nuts” compared to lease payment, but you would still need to wait at least half an hour, or possibly much more on weekend/holiday when more people travel. I would rather get refuelable car for longer trip.

Considering similar sized gas cars get 20MPG, paying 40MPGe$ is great. In what universe do you criticize a car for getting 100% better fuel mileage?

Since people charge at home most times, rare long distance travel and even rarer possibility of waiting is balanced out by constantly going to gas station with gas cars even during normal driving days.

Not sure if you have an EV that you charge at home, but you must try it to understand how convenient it is. Being cheaper than gas is a nice bonus.


I don’t mean that 40 mpg is bad. I would say 20 cnt/kWh is good price. But 40 mpg is not something better than ordinary ICE or hybrid cars unless you mean old gas guzzlers. It is moving target and may become new normal, e.g. Toyota in Detroit promises Prius like economy and 40% thermal efficiency for new direct injection Camry. Which has even more volume inside for passengers.

5.50 $/Gallon in Brussels and around 0.15 $/KWh night time charging, so EV is clearly more advantageous. In more electricity is caped in price by the maximum cost of PV, which is permanently going down, while for gas, the sky is the limit. Electricity also tends to be more predictable from year to year, oil is a wild card. And of course, electricity is made at home, gas is 100 % imported. This all added to the obvious environmental benefit and the technological benefit as well. It is very hard to have an ICE working on Mars. An EV will need only minor cooling system modifications and will be able to drive on Mars as well. For instance the Model S could even be used as is in underground pressurized Mars tunnels, no need for cleaning the air in it since it would not get polluted. In fact the only modification needed would be in the driving style since the lower gravity would give a corresponding effect to grip, so the acceleration capability would be reduced and the braking as well. The drivers would have to relearn driving under 0.38 G. You can be sure that many Earthling visitors will… Read more »

You fail to account for the first 400 kWh being free. When you factor in the free fuel, your numbers are off substantially.

Also, a luxury ICE car in this class would typically take Premium fuel, not regular.


If you factor in “free fuel” allowance, you may need to factor in purchase price premium or lease payment premium, how much do you earn per hour to account for the time wasted charging or waiting in line, and it becomes long and boring TCO calculation that you can argue all day long. But at the end it is obvious without going into details that few people purchase ~$100k cars to save on regular commuting expense.

Have you ever noticed how EV bashers always write as if all EV charging was done at public chargers, rather than 90-95% of it being done at home or at work, where you don’t have to spend any time at all waiting?

My favorite Q&A about EV charging:

Q: How long does it take to charge your electric car?

A: About 30 seconds to plug it in at night, and 30 seconds to unplug it in the morning.

(Some say 15-20 seconds; I won’t quibble! 🙂 )

I think they ought to charge one $1.00 per minute after your car is fully charged. And if it’s in your home market it Ought to be $5.00 per minute. If you don’t pay within 30 days your Vin number is removed from charging. And the $50 per month fee at it until it is paid. Your electric company charges you to reconnect your electricity if you don’t pay your bill and it gets turned off.

GO TESLA GO…I hope this brings in enough income to pay for solar charging upgrades in SC network.

I knew it! And mark my words: they will abandon per kWh pricing before the end of 2018!

The different models have been tried, and none is worse than per kWh. It is arrogant stupidity we’re seeing from Tesla here! What morons!!

“Mark my words” — You mean like when a whole bunch of people swore up and down that cars would be banned from charging at their local Superchargers?

Is that the best you can do? I’m making a specific prediction, and you wave it off simply by pointing out some people have been wrong before?

My crystal ball is no better than yours. But this experiment has already been run and the results are known. Americans are strange animals, so maybe the result can be different in the USA. But I’m convinced you’re not that different and will prefer high utilization just like us. Per minute pricing delivers, per kWh doesn’t.

Your caption reads:
Texans pay 16 cents per minute for charging over 60kW, 8 cents per minute when charging under 8 kW.

What do Texans pay when the rate is between 8 KW and 60 KW?

The price set in Sweden basically puts driving while following the traffic rythm on highways in a Tesla as costly as driving a diesel car.

There goes the advantage for the ones who spend their time mostly on the road.

Don’t forget the most important advantage of driving a Tesla less pollution going into your lungs and your families lungs.