Renault Ends Sale Of ZOE Q90 With 43-kW AC Charging Capability

FEB 16 2019 BY MARK KANE 25

The three-phase 43 kW charging loses its only mainstream model in Europe

Renault ZOE, one of the two best-selling all-electric cars in Europe, this year will receive a major upgrade in form of the second-generation version.

The French manufacturer is already preparing for the changes and reportedly is no longer taking orders for the new ZOE Q90 version, which were equipped with the drivetrain from Continental.

Continental was the original supplier of the integrated drivetrain/charging system for ZOE since its introduction around 2012/2013. The charging capability of the Q-versions of ZOE was up to 43 kW from three-phase Type 2 charging points.

A few years later, Renault developed its own electric motors, power electronics with an integrated charging system for up to 22 kW, which turned out to be slightly cheaper and with better efficiency (slightly more range). The two systems R-version and Q-version were offered simultaneously.

As the new second-generation ZOE will be equipped – probably as an option – with CCS Combo inlet for DC fast charging, Renault will resign from the Q-version entirely. It’s expected that consumers will have a standard option to charge up to 22 kW AC (three-phase) and up to 100 kW DC (CCS).

For the 43 kW three-phase charging, it seems that besides Renault, no other carmaker was willing to use it (even 22 kW was typically reserved for some premium models) as the base was DC fast charging.

The ZOE battery size for 400 km (250 miles) under WLTP is expected to be somewhere between 50 and 60 kWh, compared to the current 41 kWh.

Upcoming improvements:

  • about 95 kW electric motor, compared to current 80 kW version (R110)
  • range of 400 km (250 miles) under WLTP, compared to 400 km (250 miles) NEDC in case of current Z.E. 40 (41 kWh) version
  • fast charging up to 100 kW using CCS Combo or 22 kW three-phase
  • interior (instrument cluster, infotainment)

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25 Comments on "Renault Ends Sale Of ZOE Q90 With 43-kW AC Charging Capability"

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I really hope they put in an active liquid battery thermal management system.

CCS Combo fast charging is becoming more prevalent, so it makes sense.

I will be very impressed if they manage to do 100 kW DC charging, but I hope they can do >80 kW for 10-70 % SOC.

That would still be quite good for 40 kwh capacity.

As explained in the article the Zoe2 battery will be larger than the current Zoe1 battery 148 MJ (41 kWh).

Based on the 400 km WLTP range I expect the battery to be ~200 MJ (56 kWh).

I hope Renault makes it a class 400 V high voltage battery (max voltage ~440 V) similar to Jaguar I-Pace and Audi E-Tron. This gives ~15% faster DC charging while keeping same level of waste heat.

And 55 kwh with 80 kw charging system, is still ok. If I’m not wrong, it will be able to charge 40 kwh in half an hour.

Probably the new Zoe will be offered with two different batery capacities. With 40 has a nice range and will keep a most affordable price. The problem with Zoe is the price. Is easy for Jaguar and others offers the top technology in cars that cost 80.000 €, but when you want to sell a car under 30.000 you must to make some concessions.

Maybe as you say, there will be a top version with about 55 kwh and a 100 kw charging system and this let another more modest version, maybe with current battery pack and a less charging performance, but quite cheaper and capable enough as second car or urban use.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how ambicious will be Renault with this car.

“Probably the new Zoe will be offered with two different batery capacities. With 40 has a nice range and will keep a most affordable price. The problem with Zoe is the price.”

I think they will only make one battery size for the Zoe2. Easier in production.

Perhaps the Zoe1 tech will be moved to Dacia, to launch a cheaper version Zoe as a Dacia model.

If I configure a car in a comparable way on the Renault and the Dacia website and then look what the real-life discounts are, Renault is usually the better deal…

notting

I see one problem for using the Zoe technology in Dacia. Future Dacias will be all under CMP platform with lower epecs than Renault or Nissan. So, maybe will be cheaper to use the same components developed to work toghether with CMP and save costs, than adapt older ones to new platform. There are rumours about first electric Dacia will be based on Renault Kwid electric, a car under 8.000 € for China. About a unique version of the Zoe… we will see. A 55 kwh version maybe will cost as the current Zoe what is good because is quite better, but I think a cheaper version with less range and performance, could be successful. In my opinion, the main barrier for the EVs take off is the price. Look at Norway, the electric cars costs the same than ICEs equivalents and people is buying EVs. But if you must to pay 30-50% more for an electric car, most of people will buy an ICE again. I think a Zoe with 55 kwh with 100 kw charge for 30.000 € will be fantastic. But, if Renault can offer a more affordable Zoe with a performance like current Zoe near 20.000… Read more »

Yes, but the fastest will be Dacia taking over Zoe1 tech. Also Dacia needs to sell a significant quantity of EVs or PHEVs to be in line with new EU emission rules starting in 2020.

I agree but you should have the possibility to put CCS on. I caseva commuter wants to make a longer trip. Its 4 times as fast.

The Q210 (also 43kW Type2 charging but only 22kWh battery) was able to charge with ca. 2C. So concerning that relevant number, the Zoe II probably won’t be much faster also because of a bigger battery.

notting

The first EV I ever drove – it’s still a great car except for being underpowered.

For city driving and in between city it is quite a good car. I am very pleased with it. Yes it could do better but it in city driving it is quite “nippy”

I agree, for city and surroundings is perfect, very responsive and agile.

A lot of people ask why you can’t use an EVs main drive inverter as a charger to enable high speed AC charging without a huge cost and weight penalty. The answer is you can, but it seems that everyone who tries it ends up abandoning the approach ultimately. Probably too many compromises in getting one component to play two very different roles.

There are a couple issues. A 44 kW integrated 3 phase AC charging system tends to be inefficient at very low power such as single phase charging at home with low current. Secondly, the motor electronics need to be beefed up a bit to tolerate voltage spikes on the grid, for example if you are charging during a thunderstorm and lightning strikes a power line near your house. And of course, the main problem is software development, as these inverters are all software driven. Continental is expected to put their new AllCharge system into production in a couple years. Meanwhile, integrated charging is coming back in the heavy duty EV market where nobody bothers to support charging at 120 VAC anyway. Since integrated chargers tend to be bidirectional, some heavy EVs can make significant revenue selling grid services while parked if they are in a market where the price for frequency regulation is good.

The Conti motor (with control electronic) in the Zoe is allowing to feed the AC 3 phase ‘Y’ (3x 63A, 400V line to line) into the regen-breaking circuit for charging at 43KW – so this seems to be a quite stable and cost efficient solution instead a separate rectifier (on board charger) for this power.

When there were not much DC chargers in Europe available but a few 3-phase (63A) AC chargers around, it made sense, now with DC chargers coming up all along the highways, choosing CCS is the better option.

From what I understand, the main reason why every manufacturer abandon this solution is because : for safety, the motor must be demagnetized during charging, so that you can reuse the components without risk of vehicle movement while charging.
This means the only type of motor a manufacturer can use is an excited synchronous motor (with brushes), that are less efficient and require maintenance (change of brushes).

Renault is the only manufacturer who tried this solution, and got hit hard with it’s limits.
Home charging suffers from low efficiency (can’t charge on a regular plug, you must use a level2 wall charger, or a reinforced wall outlet that can take 220V 16A continuous (which is a lot more than code requirements)
Fast charging is decent for an urban car (45~50kW max) but with no room for improvements as the system cannot be extended to 100kW or higher, so you’re still using DC for bigger batteries, long distance super-charge.

The Renault Zoe’s Cameleon charger was a short term bet for the small battery cars of it’s time. But anyone wanting to use a bigger battery car used for highway driving (Tesla) knew this solution was doomed right from the start.

The original Tesla Roadster initially also used this approach…

Current Zoe is far too expensive for a polyvalent city car. 32k€ with battery included.
If VW ID comes at 25k€. Just impossible to justify even with real life 400km

How could they possibly justify optional CCS when it will be standard equipment on Peugeot e-208

Even >1 year before the German EV incentives started, they offered a discount of 5kEUR. When the German incentives started, they reduce their discount by the 2kEUR incentive. So at the end still 5kEUR discount. The lowest price in the current German pricelist for a Zoe with 41kW(!) battery is 34.100EUR. So with incentives 1kEUR + battery rent for a Zoe 22kWh). And the battery rent (where more battery capacity is guarrantied than when buying the battery) is limited to 119EUR/month without limit in km if you a normal private customer. The maintenance also seems to be cheaper.

And I think they’ll reduce prices if e.g. VW comes up with such an EV for 25kEUR.

notting

Zoe was launched in 2013 and you are comparing with cars that are still in development. Is not fair. In Spain Zoe starts with battery in 28.000 €. Even if you are patient, can find a registered unit with a big discout:

https://www.coches.net/km-0/renault/zoe/madrid/life_40_r90-electrico-hibrido-de-km0-36151396-kovn.aspx

Lets wait until new Zoe were launched and we know specifications and prices to make critics.

Zoe is so much prettier then the Leaf, I wish they sold it in N. America.

Exterior design of Zoe is very good for a small car. However Zoe (B class) is a smaller than Leaf (C class). Zoe is size like Ford Fiesta. Does this size sell well in Canada?