Fastned Readies For 150 kW, 300 kW Charging

OCT 7 2015 BY MARK KANE 40

Porsche Is Mum On Price Estimates For The Mission E Concept

Porsche Mission E Concept

After unveiling the Audi e-tron quattro concept, with announced capability of 150 kW DC fast charging, and the Porsche Mission E Concept, which in theory could recharge at twice the power level of the Audi (300 kW), Dutch company Fastned said that it’s gearing up for delivering such power levels at its public chargers.

Fastned operates a network of nearly 40 fast charging stations, which currently have up to 50 kW per spot.


At 300 kW, range will be replenished at 1500 km/h!


All the Fastned stations have strong enough grid connection to be ready for next-generation chargers and cars. But before we get too excited, remember that the launch of the Audi e-tron quattro is still a few years away from today.

“Fastned has committed itself to install the fastest chargers at all charging stations as soon as these will become available. In preparation Fastned is already making sure that all locations have grid connections of at least 630 kVa available. Earlier this week a next generation of EV’s was announced at the IAA in Frankfurt. These EV’s such as the Audi E-Tron Quattro and the Porsche Mission-E will be able to charge at speeds of up to 1500 km/h (300kW). For drivers this implies charging their cars at Fastned gives them 400km range in approximately 15 minutes. Put differently, 3 or 4 hours of driving and 15 minutes rest.”

Michiel Langezaal, Fastned CEO said:

“When these cars go on sale potential buyers will ask themselves where they can charge at these speeds. Because it takes years to build a good network of fast charging stations we have started to build these in the Netherlands in 2013 and are now ready to roll out to other countries.”

Fastned network

Fastned network

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40 Comments on "Fastned Readies For 150 kW, 300 kW Charging"

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We need a US version of Fastned. Essentially mimic the Tesla Supercharger network, but use SAE CCS at 150kW.

Hear hear! I am very jealous of the Fastned network. And it’s a shame that Tesla went proprietary or they could be the international version of Fastned. I would gladly pay Tesla a reasonable monthly membership fee to charge my Chevy Bolt (or equivalent) on their network!

Actually there’s quite a lot of discussion on the sense of fastned. Say I have a bolt with a highway range of 300 km. That’s about as far as you can go in the Netherlands. They’re aiming at the future but in the Netherlands the future mainly needs more destination chargers. The fastned stations are all located on unattractive highway locations, next to a gasstation usually. Tesla owners right now are hardly using them because they can’t really find a good use case.

The thing is that fastned really needs quick chargers that can do a charge in 5 minutes, mimicking the use of gasstations. 150kw+ charging is necessary or they might go the way of better place, great idea, didn’t work in the real world.

I’d love to see them succeed though.

Tesla is accepting other car manufacturers to join their network as long as cost sharing happens and the cars are able to take the full speed charge. We will soon see the first.

Tesla went by itself because they could not wait for everyone else to agree on a 120 kWh or faster standard.

Porsche Mission E is a direct response to Tesla.

No Model S with Supercharger Network then no Mission E with Fastned. Good if you want to drive across the Netherlands in the 2020s.

And Dieselgate may kill or significantly delay Mission E, Audi Etron Quattro , and any other long range VW Group BEV.

“And Dieselgate may kill or significantly delay Mission E, Audi Etron Quattro , and any other long range VW Group BEV.”
I actually think the opposite… Dieselgate may have killed passenger Diesels in Europe in the medium term, not just for VW (who was actually less depdent on it as a % of sales, 25%, as opposed to 40-50%+ for Renault, PSA, Volve, BMW and Mercedes).
EVs (incl. PHEVs) may be VWs only hope to maintain sales… They don’t have standard hybrids (except a couple of Porsches), and they’re a mid-priced carmaker for the most part — they can’t flood the 3d world with cheap, dirty cars.
OTOH, their EV program has been pretty healthy in terms of model range/variety, having BEVs as well as PHEVs, a modular battery strategy etc.

I don’t expect them to do much Diesel R&D going forward, so one of their only chances is to go full-steam ahead on EVs.

Yeah, dieselgate will probably accelerate VW’s electrification programs.

They need to meet the emissions standards and they are now finding out that it is not easy to do with dirty diesel.

And besides, diesel has taken a serious PR hit. Diesel sales will probably drop no matter what.

Nonsense they don’t have standard hybrids. There are Golf, Passat and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Toureg hybrids running around over here.

Norway has the cheapest electricity in the world ($US 0,055/kwh).

I’m unsure but they may do ‘demand contracted for’ instead of demand charges, unless gov’t subsidies negate charges altogether.

The article is unclear as to whether they are providing 630 kva capacity per station, or per charging stall.

For Usa use, the big thing would be figuring who will pay the electric demand.

The other insideevs article here today claiming charging stations only benefit rich people would be more true if these things were widely installed. With the US economy in the ongoing process of tanking, these people would be wise to be somewhat circumspect regarding large infrastructure projects that mainly benefit doctors, and lawyers. Where is the benefit for the common man, once the political value of these installations is expended?

Yep, they are blessed with massive amounts of hydropower that they have exploited. However, they’ve been a bit wasteful with it. They use it too much for heating. They should cut back on that since it is better used for lighting, EVs, appliances, etc.

They should use natural gas for heat. Or at least be more efficient by using heat pumps. Hard to dig in that rock though.

300 kW? That would be roughly 2.5 times faster than Superchargers. Pretty impressive, but they would need a very high “C” battery (or very large size battery) to take that charge that fast.

Very interesting. I hope they pull it off.

50 kw is fine ,just put more so we don’t wait for one to free up.let’s face it we charge at home most of the time and when we have a 150 mile bev. it will be very less a way from home.super long trips is not some thing we do every day .300kw charges would be great for the trucking buisness.put the batts in the floor of 53 foot trailers plus in the trucks ,a hole new truck with trailer good for 700 miles per charge .

50 kW is definately not “just fine”. For several reasons. One is history. It’s like Bill Gates’ 640 kB is enough for everyone.

People with no option to charge a car at home (50% in my country) won’t acccept waiting for a couple of hours to charge their car at some random station. Very few people will accecpt charging for two hours or more while on a longer trip +300 miles. So what about the people who actually charge their car at home, will they occationally acccept 50 kW at a station? No, they are the people who most apprecciate the convenience with EV’s and wouldn’t acccept waiting for their car to be charge for so long.

So the conclusion is, 50 kW charging power is enough for EV’s just like 640 kB of computer memory would be enough for everyone.

“300kw charges would be great for the trucking buisness.put the batts in the floor of 53 foot trailers plus in the trucks ,a hole new truck with trailer good for 700 miles per charge .”

A 700 mile trailer would require 1 MWh (mega-watt) battery. So 300 kw charger for trucks will be the same as the 50 kw charger is for cars.

300 kW is even slower for trucks than 50kW for cars. This is more like a 20kW “fast charger”. And trips with 20kW charging are doable, but far from good.

A 50kW car charger (50-100kWh batt) would match 800kW truck charger (1MWh batt).

Slow charging is like filling a gas tank with a dropper, that is ok in your garage but when you are on the road you want fast charge and that is already set by Tesla as at least 135 KW and up. So going back down to 50 KW is like going from 4G back to 3G. In the end we want 10 minute charging of an 150 KWh battery, so that translate into 900 KW. This is in line with the overall long term objective of the megawatt charger (megacharger). This is for cars, if trucks become electric and want to charge as fast, they will need charging at the 10 MW level and if there ever comes an Airbus 880E it will need to charge at 100 MW.

Impressive and promising, although it’s something for the near future.

Faster charging speeds like 150 kW will really make EV longer distance driving fun. I agree that it would be nice if a company in the US would do something like Fastned and install fast chargers at rest stops and places near highways but have them near where there are restrooms and food and drink 24/7. I wonder how soon we will see 100 and then 150 kW speeds and I wonder if the Chevy Bolt will do more than 50 kW?

” I wonder if the Chevy Bolt will do more than 50 kW?”

I have this sneaking suspicion that it won’t after seeing how conservative GM is with the Volt and Spark with their 3.3 kW onboard chargers. And the Spark’s dc charge is max 50 kW as well.

Hopefully they will move forward but seeing that they kept the 3.3 kW charger for the new Volt it doesn’t give me much hope.

Because of the Volt’s ICE back-up, one could argue that it doesn’t need fast charging, so I am not sure there are any conclusions you can draw from this regarding the Bolt, which is a pure EV. Pure EVs need fast charging to make long-distance travel practical.

SparkEV has 19kWh, Volt a bit less. At 50 kW charging, that’s over 2C rate, probably max recommended; Tesla super charging is bit less than 2C.

But Bolt will have much bigger battery (50kWh?) Then 2C will be 100kW, 2.5C will be 125kW. I just hope they don’t give out free charging like Leaf, i3, and Tesla.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2015/10/free-charging-sucks.html

“If it would charge like SparkEV (45kW to 80%, taper to 9kW at 99%)”

Does the SparkEV actually have such fast-charging capabilities? That’s pretty impressive.

Garrity. Spark EV Owner x 2

Yes, some Spark EV’s have the option of having a SAE Combo charger port able to charge upto 80% in 20 minutes. All Spark EV’s do come with a 3.3 putt putt slow on board charger.

@Brandon, there is one: Tesla Motors.

Yes. I think a lot of us here know what Tesla can do. The scope of the article and discussion is about charging infrastructure and speeds that that will be used by future EVs having connectors that most car manufacturers will use in their cars.

I found this on electrive.com:
150 kW CCS-charger planned: Partners of Germany’s fast-charging network SLAM announced that it will be possible to charge with up to 150 kW in the future at key junctions along the country’s motorways. Terms of subsidies have been adjusted accordingly – 50 percent of the cost for the installation of 50 kW chargers and 75 percent of the cost for the preparation of 150 kW chargers will be covered. The first 150 kW chargers are said to go online in two years.
volkswagenag.com (in German only)

http://www.electrive.com/?s=150+kW+ccs&x=0&y=0

So maybe by 2018 there will be at least a couple relatively affordable cars being made and some stations installed that can charge at 150 kW. That is really what we need in car and infrastructure capability to move EV adoption mainstream IMO. I’m sure there are other things too, one obviously being chargers installed where needed.

“But before we get too excited, remember that the launch of the Audi e-tron quattro is still a few years away from today”.

That was before dieselgate. It now could be never (if group has no funding left for this) or earlier if more focus is given to EV’s as a side effect.

It will always be easiest and cheapest to charge at night in one’s garage at level 2. It will also always be easiest and cheapest to charge at work during the day with level 1.

There are three cases for high-speed public charging:
1. Long distance driving;
2. You don’t own a garage/regular parking space;
3. Ride share cars.
These special cases require level 3. They don’t need to be as ubiquitous as gas stations, but they need to work the same speedy way. If CCS can handle that, fantastic: but the reality is that battery chemistry and battery pack size will dictate the maximum charging speed. The charging station and the car need to be able to agree on that maximum charge for each car.

What about the thickness of the cables that would handle 300 kW? Wouldn’t the cable need to be quite a big larger than what Tesla’s are? I remember recently reading something about how Tesla’s cables can get quite warm. Is a larger cable going to be practical? Wonder how this could be solved.

Power = Current * Voltage

The cables need to be thick to handle the massive amounts of current. You can always mitigate the amount of current by raising the Voltage. That has limits too, of course, but I suspect that doubling the voltage of today’s EVs is doable.

So 150kW may be 500V * 300A while 300kW would be 1000V * 300A.

This in turn requires the car to accept 1000V. And all the corresponding safety measures for 1000V DC, which is incredibly dangerous (not that 500V DC isn’t!).

Yeah but zero cars use 1000V. And I doubt many ever will. Their batteries don’t have such high voltages. I think they tend to be around 480V at most.

Interesting possibility for the 300 kW. Thanks Brian. I do think that 150 kW charging rate is going to be the most the practical, cost effective, and sufficient enough for future EVs. It will be very interesting to see how and when the CCS and CHAdeMO standards upgrade to this. Hopefully they will do at least 100 kW.

Tesla already has a station in use (CA of course) which uses liquid cooled cables, which results in thinner cables. I’m guessing they’ll also be able to ramp up the charging speed in the near future.

http://fastned.nl/nl/blog/post/the-fastned-freedom-plan

An interesting read of one of the fastned founders on their vision going forward.

I can only say that I really appreciate their work – charged our Zoe there today. I just hope their business model works out. We only use fastned 1-2 times a month. I can not imagine that that is sufficient in the long run.

Great read! Its pretty cool what we will see in the future.

What standard will they use for 150KW and 300KW? Do any of the non Tesla standards go that high? Perhaps SAE-CCS can do 150KW.

If I’m not mistaken SAE CCS is up to 90 kW. The standard would have to be updated from that, which would be possible I suppose.

I read 200kW CCS, 170 kW Chademo.

Found this on J 1772 Wikipedia article:
The SAE DC Level 3 charging levels have not been determined, but the standard as it exists as of 2009 has the potential to charge at 200–600 V DC at a maximum of 400 A (240 kW).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

As of now it is 90 kW:

The SAE J1772 committee has also proposed a DC connector based on the SAE J1772-2009 AC connector shape with additional DC and ground pins to support charging at 200–450 V DC and 80 A (36 kW) for DC Level 1 and up to 200 A (90 kW) for DC Level 2[16] after evaluating the J1772-2009 connector against other designs including the JARI/TEPCO connector used by the CHAdeMO DC fast charge protocol.[17]

From same article just before the 240 kW part.

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