Elon Musk: Tesla To “Take Action” On Long-Term Supercharger Spot Hogging

DEC 11 2016 BY JAY COLE 132

A charging etiquette problem that, until recently, had mostly been found in single-station non-Tesla DC fast charging rears its head - excessive, post charging stays

A charging etiquette problem that, until recently, had mostly been found in single-station non-Tesla DC fast charging rears its head – excessive, post charging stays

Despite the recent implementation of a text/alert system to remind Tesla owners to vacate Supercharging stations once their charge session is complete, some inconsiderate Model S and Model X owners are still unnecessarily clogging up charging stalls well past the amount of time needed to ‘fill up’ – often for hours longer, or even overnight/full day stays.

Apparently the situation in some locations has gotten out of hand, and as a result Tesla CEO Elon Musk looks for that to end soon – promising action in a tweet today

One of the larger offenders of Supercharging etiquette are those who also received earlier emails about excessive charging; specifically business-based ‘car for hire’ services that offer Teslas as rentals, taxis and car-sharing services – basically “parking” the EVs in a spot until they are required.

Now the only question is: “What will, and can, Tesla do to stop it?”

Hat tip to Brian R!

Categories: Charging, Tesla

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132 Comments on "Elon Musk: Tesla To “Take Action” On Long-Term Supercharger Spot Hogging"

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Refund owner’s SC fee and then bar them from SC system. Or, prevent charging all together at SC for those abusing the system.

Maybe use remote control of auto pilot and park their car somewhere away from the charger??

Additional: Equate it to filling up your ICE car with gas and then leaving it sit at the pump?????? How long do you think it would take before your car is towed away??

There will always be USERS and ABUSERS! The rest of us cannot permit them to ruin it for the rest of us.

Maybe an opportunity for a startup franchise….”Tesla Supercharging Towing Service.” Get notified by Tesla of a SC use violation (excessive parking) and then go unplug the car and tow it to a storage facility. Then the owner can pay the towing and storage fees for their car.

Maybe Tesla can put a light system on their superchargers. When the light is RED, the car can be towed!!

Now I always thought Tesla owners had Some Class and that they were Thoughtful and considerate folks …..Sadly, l stand to be corrected.

Don’t forget – not all Tesla Owners these days – are ‘EV Enthusiasts’, some don’t even know about http://www.plugshare.com, not all ‘Share’ a Home Charger, and some are even either past or Current Mercedes Benz / Bentley / Audi / BMW (etc.) Owners who feel they are ‘Entitled’ and above other common folk! (Like the Mercedes Benz owner driving very early in the AM without Lights on in his White MB, while it was snowing – that hit my car while the wife was driving it and I was at work, and – as admitted to me 30 minutes before the police showed up – was ‘unsure of his speed’ – and I had a 30 minute delay of being contacted at work, and had time to drive to the scene, another 30 minutes – and STILL got there before the Police Showed! When I went to tell the cop the information I had gathered – he Threatened ME with Obstruction! [He was talking with the MB Owner at that Moment!]) That Said – Way too many EVSE’s have Signage “EV Parking Only” – hence – people with EV’s Park in front of Charging stations – without Charging, since the… Read more »

Screw that – no one wants the police wasting their time on your rich person problems. You will find very little public support for enforcing your silly EV parking rules on private property.

Careful…the police already enforce handicap parking, on private property.

How many times have you seen police helping tow trucks in parking lots?

And just to add, this is 100% the fault of Tesla and it really goes to show how much of a bubble Tesla management and its early customers live within. How did you not see this coming? The solution is obvious. Superchargers are private property – charge a fee for access to the stall/sport. Will that mean additional infrastructure? Yes it will! Does the public care that your luxury electric car startup has to spend more to police the use of its charging spots? No, we do not!

Robert Weekley’s post was so long, I skipped reading it. Watching paint dry is more exciting. Its longer than many articles here.

Insideevs needs a 10 line maximum to prevent abuses like this!

Completely agree.

I invariably skip these essays and am astounded that people kid themselves that their opinion is so interesting that people would bother to waste their time reading those.

Those who do read these: maybe it’s time to get a life?

A 10-line limit? If your attention span is that short, perhaps you should stick to Twitter. There are sometimes longer comments well worth reading, for example from Nix and occasionally from Jay Cole.

But that said, I certainly do skip wall-of-text posts which don’t seem to have much to say that’s relevant… including the one you’re complaining about.

If you’re an adult, you should be capable of deciding for yourself which comments to read, and which to skip.

Well, maybe it should be limited and also encourage people to submit longer editorials for consideration to be published as a post to the site.

Some of the best commenters that come to mind that I appreciate and most often have good observations and comments are: Pushmi-Pullyu, Spark EV, Speculawyer, Terawatt. Others too.

Way too long. Solution is simple. Require a credit card for free charging. Station receives a firmware update to turn it into a combination charger/parking meter. Parking meter starts 15 minutes after charging is complete (ie, grace time). Then, the rate is $0.01 dollars for the first minute, and each minute thereafter, the rate doubles.
Troy.
#

Tesla has a tragedy of the commons because, unlike gas stations, there is NO human monitoring of most charging spots. Tesla has leasehold rights most places. They can legally tow out of the spot.

First Violation: leave a warning on windshield.

Second Violation: Tow out or use Summon if possible, to move it forward out of a slot.

Third Violation: Tow and suspend Supercharging a month, etc.

I have used 19 SCs from NY to FL. We do not yet have the problem of too many Teslas parked to long. But just a few days ago, I ran into the NON Tesla parking issue (that would be a Tesla SC being ICE’d). This is too long of a story to write about, but it concerned a GROUP of a-holes attending some kind of meeting at the Kingsland WELCOME Center. While obviously only one person can be parked in a space, it was clear that I encountered a GROUP of indifferent jerks who couldn’t care less if they were infringing on someone else’s needs. It made me sick…and I hope Tesla finds a solution to NON Tesla owners hogging spaces, as well as Tesla owners.

Isn’t Tesla supposedly the leader in “fully autonomous” cars? Am I to understand that it cannot automatically drive the fully charged car out of the spot and into a staging area on the supercharger lot?

Just Reduce the Purchase Price & make The Supercharger “PAY PER USE”….People abuse superchargers will be automatically rejected and towed away at their own expense!

it has to do autopilot, unreliable people on this issue. after charging autopilot disconnect yourself from Supercharger activated and leave the car somewhere away from the charger

People buy a 100k car, then are too cheap to even pay for their own electricity. What a joke. Ban then from the SC network.

They are paying for the electricity @ SC, as it’s included in the car price. So Tesla cannot deny them that. I’m sure the SC terms limits their stay though.

Yes they already paid for the electricity but they can be billed for the time in the parking spot.

It is a long comment I left higher up on this thread – that gave 4 ideas or progressive Options – http://insideevs.com/elon-musk-tesla-to-take-action-on-long-term-supercharger-spot-hogging/#comment-1114818 a) Authorise Local Police – with the advice to Ticket Tesla’s for being at a Supercharger and Not Plugged in, or Chalk the Tires and if Not moved in 45 Minutes from then – to Ticket them for Blocking the Charging Station b) Each Driver/Owner/Operator – Parking their Tesla at any Supercharger More than 90 minutes if plugged in when arriving, or after 30 minutes if not plugged in, should be able to have a patch sent to their car – with a Notice: “Your Vehicle has had Supercharging Disabled for 24 Hours for abusing the Supercharging Stations, Autopilot has also been Disabled for this same period. Please use Level 2 Charging for long term charging, but in no case should you be just Parking at ANY Charging Station – just for parking convenience Purposes: These are for Charging Only. Your next abuse experience will have Supercharging and Autopilot Disabled for 48 hours.” c)For Serial Abusers, who go beyond the 3rd time of having Supercharger Privileges temporarily blocked, Tesla could count the number of times any given Tesla… Read more »

Outside of the business/Uber owners, odds are these folks are buying used and taking advantage…

Give them a warning & if they keep doing it bar them from using the SC.

If they are range charging (up to 100%) and leaving the car sit for hours, that degrades the battery. Do that enough times and you’ll see a loss of battery capacity.

For Full Range Charging above 80% to the full 100% – a 60 Amp Tesla Destination Charger should do the trick just as fast as a Supercharger, and – hence – these could, and should, at least be located at Supercharging stations that get higher traffic, in equal numbers to the number of superchargers, and – at least two of them at each Supercharger Station in general, for this purpose! They could also just install 60 Amp Clipper Creek J1772 EVSE’s too! Making them Flexible for other EV’s (Bolt EV?) to come by and use at the same place where businesses offer food amenities! A bit of Creative Marketing for Tesla to do – promoting longer stays at businesses – if they chip in with Tesla on the Installing of Level 2 charging!

I’m sure this will end well. EV charger battles are the most contentious issue I’ve seen in cars in a decade at least.

You get fewer arguments over whether the Porsche Panamera looks good than over EV charging.

Nah. I still see arguments over the Panamera’s looks. And now, the even longer one, yuck.

I’ve never come across full Tesla Superchargers and have visited at least a couple dozen, some many times.

IMO the new Panamera looks awesome.

Simple. Supercharging is free, but parking is not.

Once car is charge and a text message is sent, start billing for parking. $100. per hour ought to do it.

Once both the cars and the charging connectors are automated, then the car can just disconnect and drive away to a parking spot when done.

What if you are 5 minutes late

Should you still get billed $100 …

Answer: No.

Tesla Owners are not always Tesla Drivers. There is a big difference between the two and how they roll when it comes to charger plug etiquette. Even the Tesla Lease driver can be less adept at being courteous to the people behind them wanting to get at the plug.

Send a software patch to all Tesla cars where it recognises that the car is 100% charged, if car stays stationary for more than 5 minutes the autopilot will move the car few metres ahead forcing the owner to clear out.

If owner agains reverses the car into the spot the car should make really really loud noise, loud enough to get everybody’s attention and possibly embarrass the owner. The loud beeping will stop only when the car detects that its more than 40 meters away from the supercharger station.

But don’t program the code as an extension of the Tesla software otherwise it will be easily hackable try to program it deep into the machine language.

This

The car is plugged in and moving it while plugged in is a problem.

Caution, NSFW:

“NSFW”

Haha haha! It’s just too easy with this video. 🙂

When they said “car porn”, I didn’t think they meant it literally! 😉

How is that supposed to ever be safe with cable still plugged in?

Aryan said:

“…the car is 100% charged… autopilot will move the car few metres ahead forcing the owner to clear out.”

Unfortunately, the charging cable locks into the port and has to be disconnected by hand.

“If owner agains reverses the car into the spot the car should make really really loud noise…”

That’s not the problem, at all. The problem under discussion here isn’t people using the Supercharger stall as an ordinary parking space. The problem is people hooking their Tesla car up to the Supercharger and then leaving, and not returning for hours, preventing others from charging their Tesla car.

And who do you think will remove the heavy plug safely from the car ?

What about resetting all the radio stations after 6 hour? It is feasible, cheap and not damaging to the point of complain but still enough annoying to think about avoiding it.

Well that could work if someone finds out that this is a bug and not a feature…

Really it will be hard to take action without getting negative press…

There are a lot of fun things that could be done with the cars parking after charging…

Maybe it’s time for an Easter egg… Staying in the charger spot for 24h enables permanent turtle mode… Enables a series of strange error messages… Enables “battery overload please contact service center” message…

There must be a way… Sidenote to Jay: if the site swallows this, I’m fine with that 😉

Heisenberght said:

“Really it will be hard to take action without getting negative press…”

That is, of course, the real challenge for Tesla here. It’s not hard to think up ways Tesla could make life difficult for the Tesla driver, considering how many options could be controlled remotely thru the wireless connection. Choosing something sufficiently punishing to strongly discourage the behavior, while not being something which would be bad for Tesla’s public image, will be much harder.

I do like the suggestion that Tesla institutes a policy of “We don’t charge for Supercharging the Model S, but we do charge for long-term parking of a Model S at Supercharger stalls.”

I mentioned above that Tesla could add Destination Charging/Clipper Creek EVSE’s at/right beside Tesla Superchargers, for people that need longer parking and full charging, but there is also these ideas:
http://insideevs.com/telefonix-introduces-low-current-level-2-charging-station/
or even:
https://chargedevs.com/features/telefonix-makes-the-case-for-free-level-1-workplace-charging/

Also – If There were Wireless Charging Capabilities standard (Next Major update to the cars, maybe?), the Summons/Parking feature could operate – in the ‘Find a new parking spot’ mode!

Tesla has been quietly building a network of destination chargers, quite aside from its Supercharger system. Those people who park their Tesla cars at Supercharger and leave them there for hours, should be encouraged to use destination chargers instead. That’s how destination chargers are intended to be used. And that’s the carrot which Tesla should offer, as the alternative to the stick that necessity is forcing them to implement.

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/29/tesla-makes-full-court-press-destination-charging/

* * * * *

Elon has stated pretty definitely that Tesla is not going to put wireless chargers into its cars. I expect that will change due to rising demand in a few years, but it’s almost certainly not coming soon.

Simple

Charging can be free but charge for parking when charging is completed with the rate increasing exponentially.

That could work. 1st hour 25 dollars, 2 hour 625 dollar, 3rd hour 390,625 dollar. Try staying a full day that way!

Multi-Pronged Approach: a) Authorise Local Police – with the advice to Ticket Tesla’s for being at a Supercharger and Not Plugged in – at any time. (Parked on Private Property without Property Owners Permission!) Our Local Mall – has Sensors to identify if a parking spot is available – or occupied, and the number of available parking spots to that particular lot (or section) is displayed on a board as you enter the parking area – so not that hard to implement tracking, also good for seeing if the station is ICE’d by ICE Holes (or EV Holes?)and Parking Authorities/Police could be notified by a generic Text Message/Email! EV Charging Spot Occupied, but Charging Station is not activated within 2-5 Minutes – it is ICE’d/Blocked! b) Each Driver/Owner/Operator – Parking their Tesla at any Supercharger More than 90 minutes if plugged in when arriving, or after 30 minutes if not plugged in, gets a Notice, on screen and on a Popup notice on their smart phone: Supercharger Access (and Autopilot) Disabled for 24 hours, 1st offence, 48 hours 2nd offence, 7 days 3rd offence. c)For Serial Abusers, who go beyond the 3rd time of having Supercharger Privileges temporarily blocked, start… Read more »

That would definitely be technologically possible once the pay-to-charge system has been implemented.

Text alerts:

“Your Tesla is now fully charged and ready for you to continue your long distance trip. Thank you for using the Tesla Supercharger for your long distance travel needs. Enjoy your travels.”

8 hours later:

“It has been 8 hours since your charge completed. The charging station is 5 minutes from where you work. You park here every day. You obviously are not using this Supercharger for long distance travel. We made a gentleman’s offer for free long distance Supercharging for Long Distance travel and occasional local use. In return, please be a gentleman in your use of free Supercharging for long distance travel. The electricity you received from this supercharging session will begin being drained back out of your battery in 15 minutes.”

*laugh*

“The electricity you received from this supercharging session will begin being drained back out of your battery in 15 minutes”

That’s great!

I like that idea of charging for parking say 30 min after the charging is complete. Charge higher than city parking rates due to the value of these spots on a per min basis. Another revenue stream for Tesla!

Install hardware and software into all Teslas that disconnect charging cable and tell the car to start hunting for a nearby parking space 15 minutes after fully charged. Owners could set whether meter parking is OK.

Give a warning. If they do it again, ban them for 1 month from SC.
With all that data they have to know WHO is blocking their SCs.

Station Banning:

Car knows and tracks how long it sits after reaching full charge.

After X minutes past full charge and owner notification verified: abusers who leave their car get automatically banned from that station.

The car will no longer display the SuperCharger Station on vehicle maps, nor plot trips that include using that station. If forced, Car will refuse to connect and access any power from SuperCharger location.

Owners can only be unbanned by contacting Tesla and paying a small “Re-acceptance Fee”, which includes an agreement to never again bogart a SuperCharger space. After three strikes, perma-ban from ENTIRE SuperCharger Network.

Problem Solved.

I have to say that it seems to me so far in the comments NO ONE has offered a good, reasonable, practical solution to the issue of overstaying at a Supercharger.

What’s a reasonable acceptable policy that actually has a chance of being implemented by Tesla?

Anyone have something sane to offer?

You won’t find a reasonable answer here from the usual crowd. The comments section on this blog is typically an echo chamber.

I doubt that the majority of readers understand that manufacturers aren’t going to strictly penalize the buyers of a $100k car beyond a slap on the wrist. You don’t get repeat customers by acting that way.

I think the best solution wouldn’t be punative. I think a better direction would be to support what Tesla owners are use the spots for, which is free parking. SC stations could be reconfigured so that each charger can support charging in multiple parking spots. Either that, or the spots should be treated as standard tolled parking spots.

There is nothing sane to offer short term when the initial idea was totally insane – free unlimited charging. OK, maybe not insane, it was great for marketing just like all these “unlimited data” teaser plans. But they should have left some way back to normal, i.e. paid parking and paid charging. The problem is that realistic charging & parking prices would be more than gasoline, and drivers will be forced to drop lunch in the middle and run to move their cars. Which would be kind of defeat for for the whole superchargers enabling convenient long distance travel marketing narrative. Full supercharger stations are even worse of course.

The problem, that there is no such solution, is that Tesla did this mistake to offer unlimited supercharging without any binding restrictions or fair-use rules. Abuse could have been prevented by that, but AFAIK Tesla has promised totally free supercharging for the whole life of a Tesla car ordered until the end of the year. Nice mess. It’s hard to get out of this and as in all cases like that I think the lawyers will make the profit. There’s a saying: whatever you do, consider the outcome. Abuse of charging spots won’t be the last case of abuse. I think all cars ordered until the end of this year customers do this because of free unlimited supercharging and they will make use of it and then abuse is not far away. Tesla should have put up fair-use rules for supercharging e.g. limiting free supercharging to 10-20% of total charging, so people would have been encouraged to charge mostly at home. They would not have to charge the early adopters for any extra kWh, but at least it would have been legally clear that they could and that abuse is not tolerated. Even if Tesla can find any restriction in… Read more »

Originally, I had thought that Tesla’s best exit out of this looming disaster was to do the same thing AT&T did to get people off of the original “unlimited data” first-gen iPhone contracts:

We promised you unlimited data, but we DIDN’T promise you a connection speed for that data.

Throttle the connection speed into the dark ages and force them to move to a new plan that is no longer unlimited. However, if the problem is that Tesla owners are parking their cars in SC stalls when they are already full, they clearly won’t be affected by a decrease in charging speed, and in fact it might make the problem worse.

Tesla is going to have to break their “as much as you want, for life” promise; the only question remaining is how they are going to do so, and if they’ll be able to avoid a lawsuit in the process.

orinoco said:

“The problem, that there is no such solution, is that Tesla did this mistake to offer unlimited supercharging without any binding restrictions or fair-use rules.”

Yes, I think Tesla did make a big mistake by not instituting some sort of “Terms of service” regarding use of Superchargers, from the very start.

It was obvious to me that Tesla would have to implement some sort of terms of service, or restrictions on use, before they started selling the Model ≡.

As with any “tragedy of the commons” situation, which is what Tesla has created by promising “unlimited” Supercharging, either some way of regulating usage will be implemented, or else the entire system becomes more trouble than it’s worth for most people who need to use it.

Who could have predicted that a system that allows people to charge without cost “as much as you want, for life” would be abused?

I, for one, am shocked. This was an utterly unforeseeable outcome!

just like that unforeseeable sudden start of winter in December every year.

Ha! Musk should have used my scheme I proffered earlier which double the number of very low-cost ‘Charging Stalls’ per Charger Bay. Which would: 1). Let anyone truly on vacation to get a FULL-SPEED charge at an open stall. 2). Throttle abusive users who refuse to charge at home – slowing them down so that it more greatly encourages them to charge at home, but would not completely ignore apartment dwellers who NEED ANYTHING. 3). It would MAXIMIZE use of existing facilities without kicking up the demand charge the least little bit. (In my area the energy cost for an extra kwh is actually trivial for commercial users). 4). It would have continued the Model “S” promise of ‘free forever’ to include buyers even after Jan 1, 2017 since it would have greatly alleviated the current problem for at least a few more years. Of course all the Great Brains shot it down out of hand without coming up with a workable system themselves. 5) The method here would tend to make people staying at a stall for too long be much less of a problem – but if congestion occurred, then they could also implement plans such as mentioned… Read more »

Bill Howland said:

“Throttle abusive users who refuse to charge at home – slowing them down so that it more greatly encourages them to charge at home…”

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this suggested, and I find it astounding that anyone would suggest something so obviously counter-productive.

When it comes to Tesla drivers who unfairly hog the resources of the Supercharger network, the solution is not to force them to spend even longer to get a charge!

No offense – but this is a rather common “Traffic” problem which either you cannot properly visualize, or else you are just being argumentative.

But then you are so often completely off base that its no surprise.

I’ll try to bear up under the terrible burden of being accused of being “often completely off base” by a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist whose connection to reality is rather tangential. 🙄

Supercharger fiasco is a cautionary tale for those who want cradle to grave free health care (ie, single payer option). Abusers will sour it for everyone.

Let’s not compare health care to transportation fuel, as such a comparison is fatally flawed in more ways than I can count; offhand, the fact that we already provide “free” healthcare services in an emergency room or to the elderly (via Medicare) means that any money we purportedly save by NOT having single-payer is money we just end up spending on the same people anyway.

The flaws in Tesla’s Supercharger access plan belong to Tesla alone.

Emergency room is not free, but you validate my point about free being bad. Today’s system is rife with lots of people getting “free”. Insurance is supposed to be for managing risk, but health insurance (and medicare) today has turned into practically unlimited use with set monthly fee. This is exactly like one time fee, unlimited use supercharger fiasco.

By making it single payer, the problem will get worse, because it will remove even what little incentive few people have to not abuse the system. If you have someone else pay for your services, that leads to abuse and higher cost for everyone.

Best is to have people pay for their own medical services. Unfortunately, that means dismantling the entire health insurance system (and medicare), something the insurance companies and government won’t do.

No matter the health care system, resources are never unlimited. That’s why hospitals and doctors use triage to select who needs care urgently, who needs it later… and who doesn’t need it at all.

And, Sparky, the only industrialized country in the world which does not have universal health care… is the only one having a growing crisis in its health care system. Obamacare didn’t go nearly far enough; we will have to move to a true system of universal health care sooner or later, just like every other industrialized nation. Sooner would be better, but obviously that won’t happen under a Trumpian administration.

“American exceptionalism” simply isn’t working in the area of health care. It’s long past time to start imitating more successful countries.

How about shaming/embarrassing the abusers right in front of other Tesla owners?

What I mean:

If the car detects Supercharger abuse, it flashes lights and honks (a bit) in a special pattern that we all know indicates “charger abuser”, whenever it is plugged in to a Supercharger, or has been plugged in too long.

Then, everyone will know “that guy” is a charger abuser. He will feel the angry stares of the other Tesla owners who happen to be there, especially the ones waiting to charge. He will know he is a jerk. Hopefully, he will be embarrassed enough to curtail future abuse.

They need to have some charging from HPWC for people who are not in a hurry But love free charging!!! Who don’t love free charging. 4- 80amp charger there would work great for people who have all day for eating and shopping.

That’s a great suggestion Kevin. Like it!!

Or, if you abuse the Supercharger, certain non-essential features of the car won’t work for some period of time after each “abuse incident”, with no ability to unlock. You simply have to wait it out.

For example, no entertainment, no A/C, for a while. Or, perhaps even reduced performance (something like valet mode), or no auto-pilot of other convenience features.

There are a******* everywhere, the only way to deal with them is to treat them like a*******….

Simple sign that says your car will be ticketed and towed if found parked with a full charge for over 30 minutes. Then work with local authorities to enforce. I’m sure local authorities would appreciate the additional parking violation funds.

NPNS! SBF!
Volt#671

The suggestion to charge a fee for parking beyond actual charging time is good one. For those that don’t pay the parking fee(s), Tesla could “geo-fence” supercharging (SC) locations so a vehicle with past due fees will slow to a stop at about 50m (300 feet) when approaching SC stalls.

The vehicle is still free to visit and charge at other SC lcations, but if fees are outstanding at too many locations, all SC access will be geo-fenced.

The effect is like an inverse “boot” (tire lock) for extreme parking offenders; however instead of holding the vehicle, it is forced to move along … away from public supercharging locations.

Note: any suggestions to use autopilot are not practical at this time, as vehicles need to be unplugged before moving. There is however no restrictions to use autopilot to slow and stop vehicle from approaching a supercharger. An AP turtle mode for those that have nested too long at an SC location.

Haha.. I like the geo-fencing idea, so long as it can be done without risk to anybody.

Disabling non-essential features (radio, A/C, etc.) doesn’t really “endanger” anybody. But, interfering with the car’s operation (motive power, auto-braking, prevent reversal into a spot, etc.) could potentially endanger someone in an emergency or other unforeseen circumstance.

Even outright disallowing charging could be dangerous (again, in case power is needed in an emergency). I think the most that can be done is to make abuse inconvenient, rather than impossible. And, usually, the most “inconvenient” thing to do is make it cost money.

I’m surprised at you Brian for suggesting something that is quite unlikely to be implemented. It’s neither practical or acceptable. Surely you have some better ideas…??

Just to be clear … not suggesting shutting off any vehicle systems suddenly. Only system effected is a gradual decreasing of motor power based on distance to a supercharger that has repeatedly be abused and vehicle has outstanding parking fees.

The suggestion is to reduce motor power as a vehicle approaches a supercharger for which the vehicle has unpaid parking fees. This would not create a surprise, or dangerous situation.

The only point that motor power would be reduce to zero is when attempting to cross closest geo boundary to supercharger. Moving away from an off-limits area would restore motor power; as would paying the outstanding parking fees from previous extended over stayed parking occursnces.

From a practicality perspective there will be drivers that will continue to abuse rules even if the have outstanding fees. For example every large metro has at least one driver that has accumulated 10,000’s in unpaid parking.

Implantation would require minimal amount of effort as no changes physically would be required for Tesla vehicles and the supercharger infrastructure. Essentially just a firmware update to apply geo-fencing restrictions base on GPS distance and course to a flagged supercharger.

Free charging or unlimited charging will invite this kind of problem. Best solution is pay to charge billed by time.

For example, San Diego base rate is $0.19/kWh, so Tesla could charge $0.20/kWh equivalent. 120kW supercharger would be $0.40/min ($24/hr). As charging slows down at higher SoC due to taper, effective pricing would be higher per kWh. If it tapers to 60 kW (about 80%), effective would be $0.40/kWh (still $24/hr). Let it sit beyond 100% would be effectively $24/hr parking fee.

Doing the same with 90 kW charger would be $18/hr.

I agree for first three hours only, then send tow truck.

3 hours is way too long, and there’s no need to send a tow truck. If it’s connected and not charging (ie, full), charging fee automatically becomes parking fee at $24/hr.

Only reason to tow it would be if it’s not connected and not being billed, which is “ICE’ing” the spot and should be towed / ticketed. But that’s true of any car, not particular to Tesla or EV.

I would agree with you on that Spark EV. A per minute billing would ultimately likely be the best solution.

Norway mostly does per minute billing. And as far as I know it’s as long as the car is connected to the fast charger.

Tesla implementing some kind of time based fee/penalty is so far the best type of solution I would see as most likely to ACTUALLY be done by Tesla… not most of the rest of the dream type solutions presented so far in this comment section.

What is the time limit on the sign at the Supercharger station itself? At the Erie Supercharger the time limit is 30 minutes – https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/88970 So – After the ‘Tesla 30 Minute General Parking’ is past (…Maybe – 45 Minutes?) Per Minute Parking Fees Begin? Not currently owning a Tesla Model S or X Myself, I would like to know – is there any need to do anything on the 17 Inch Screen – by way of menu actions – to use the Supercharger, or do you just park, grab the power cord, hit the button on it to open the charge port, and plug in? Maybe Software Version 8.0 had no such interactions, maybe 8.1 the same, but maybe at Version 8.2 – there would need to be a further interaction on the big screen (a bit like autopilot disclaimer notice to be accepted) – “This charging station can have you charged and ready to reach your next station on your trip in 27 minutes. Please disconnect and move your vehicle within 45 minutes or you will incur Parking charges after that time at the following Rate: 1st 15 minutes @ $0.20 Cents per minute, Next 15 Minutes at… Read more »

I think you’re trying to put large penalty for letting it sit, but that makes it complicated. My proposal is simply $0.40/min (equivalent to $0.20/kWh using 120 kW), no other caveat. If it’s charging at 120 kW, then it’s pretty much electricity cost. If it’s tapered, extra cost is profit to Tesla. If it’s done charging, per minute fee becomes parking fee as more profit for Tesla.

If it’s less than $0.40/min, that’s cheaper than home electricity rate in San Diego, and it will still invite abusers. Cheapskates will hang around for 15 minutes to save few pennies. Rate has to be slightly higher than home rate, which is why I use $0.40/min as base line.

Auto-drive the Tesla to a nearby parking space and send the owner a text with the address. 🙂

No, I’m not being serious.

No need to know the address. The owner just calls it to come to his/her present GPS position.

Should work once states are OK with autodrive.

Will the solution involve this…

…and this?

😉

When St. Elon meets with Trump at Trump Tower on Wednesday, I think “The Donald” will get behind your plan to “Pluck and Crush”. We need a decree,from on high, to mandate and execute the “P-C” new administration plan!

LOL I sure hope not! Take it from GM – crushing an electric car is not good for PR. 😉

No that would reduce the number of ev cars on the road. But that was funny.

I think the solution will be a simple one.

After a warning or warnings, Tesla can simply deny that offending owner the use of that SC site for charging for a period of time (could be days, weeks, months or a progression of such).

I guess that if any obviously angry offender still chose to park there regardless that they could not charge then obviously Tesla would need to have that car towed out of the spot.

Easy.

Who said that free supercharging was going to get free energy?

You have free access to the best charging system but you pay electricity used.

Or we graciously pay all normal charge made in the time it took to charge it.
Prior to charging the car will notice you how much time you’re allowed to stay at the charger.
Once it’s charge you’re have to move your car so another one can get this outstanding service.
Any owner leaving the car in charging stall more than X minutes after charge is complete, will get the bill reverse on him.
And Tesla is entitled to tow out of the way any offender at his expense.

First world problem.

it has to do autopilot, unreliable people on this issue. after charging autopilot disconnect yourself from Supercharger activated and leave the car somewhere away from the charger

65 comments?

Over a premise that is so obvious it’s ridiculous?

Get ur butt out of the charging spot.

Is that tough to comprehend.

And if you are an ICE vehicle you get a crow bar thru your radiator.

Maybe a warning note first, would help the ICEers learn something about EV drivers needs when it comes to infrastructure awareness and charging etiquette. Usually tire pressure deflation comes before the tire iron/crowbar!

Charging $50 per hour after 30 min of fully charged.

Here is a simple idea. Don’t put only as many parking spots as there are superhargers for every SC put 1.5 spots or something.

There will always be aholes but with the spare spots you can park and unplug them when they are done and start charging your car.

Where I work out there are these 2 cars at least that stay plugged in the entire day. I just park next to them and unplug them and plug me in if they are done. It baffles the mind that people would still be parked there after 6 hours and only get 4kW (L2 charging). Left notes several times but that doesn’t matter so this seems the least impactful option to those of us who need to charge.

Not baffling at all. The world is full of self-entitled jerks. Especially rich ones.

There will always be (usually a small minority of) selfish jerks, in almost every group. If there were not, if everyone would actually cooperate for the greater good, then there would never be a tragedy of the commons situation.

Unfortunately, it’s basic human nature. Since we can’t change that, we need things like policemen, fines, and regulations to restrict use of common resources.

There are supposed to be 8 charging stations on my Fiance’s campus but they are Blink so only 3 actually work.

There are dozen or so EV/PHEV drivers on campus. They’re good about moving their car once it’s charged but may be stuck in a 2 hour class.

If another driver needs it, they just park next to it in the broken Blink station. They will pop the charge door so that the first driver can plug them in whenever they are able to leave class.

Everyone seems to do it for another driver since at some point, everyone will need someone else to do it for them.

I guess college students are just more thoughtful of the community by necessity 😉

Bunch of liberals. 🙂

This is a super obvious protocol for this problem. Do you think this protocol ever fails?

How will Tesla penalize the non Tesla vehicles that park in Supercharger spots?

Every charger stall will be equipped with a trap-door that drops into a metal shredder. The raw materials will by recycled into new Teslas (of course).

Well, the inattentive adult left the small child playing in the back seat with the puppies and kittens, so we’re NOT going to do the shredder!

Good point. Acting against Tesla owners while ICEing over remains unpunished is not a good idea. I think all solutions for both limiting charger use and anti-ICEing over require additional hardware (=expense…).

Parking issue is a local owner issue, not a Tesla issue. Most Superchargers are not on land “owned by Tesla”. If they want to have an ordinance, local police need apply do-not-park signs with towing details. Also – Teslas do not release the SC cable unless unlocked by the owner. How do you tow a car that is tethered?

I’ve heard all these ideas before. EV drivers discuss this kind of thing all the time. There really isn’t an answer. It is difficult to penalize people who did pay you that much for a car. Towing is really going to get customers angry at you. And you did promise free charging for life, so cutting people off is going to cause problems too.

Most companies giving away charging would basically have no hope of fixing this at all. Tesla might actually stand a chance. They could redesign the system so that the charger unplugs automatically and the car drives itself off to another spot. This won’t be happening soon but their cars and chargers are probably going to be capable of it before any other car/charger combo.

I like that idea, except that the car should drive itself to a random location (and use up all the charge).

Here’s my proposal. New Terms of Use for Superchargers – These new terms must be accepted or Supercharging access will be suspended. The grace period to accept these terms shall be 6 charging sessions or 3 months, whichever comes first. – A valid credit card must be on file in your MyTesla account. – Cars that were sold with “Free Supercharging for Life” will continue to receive free charging. Cars that were not sold with free Supercharging shall use the Supercharger credit system based on kWh usage. – 30 minutes after charging is complete, a parking fee of $1/minute will accrue on your MyTesla account. This parking fee shall apply to all Tesla vehicles with Supercharger Access. – Accumulated charges will be billed to the credit card on file at the end of each month or at the end of each day with a balance exceeding $100. The parking fee shall be terminated upon removal of the charging cable from the vehicle. – Parking fees may be waived on a case-by-case basis by Tesla Roadside Assistance or Tesla Customer Service. If a technical issue prevented the driver from disconnecting and moving the vehicle, parking fees shall be waived. – Supercharger… Read more »

Solution is simple:

Tesla promises free charging not free parking!

Once the battery is full the charging ends and the parking starts. That’s something Tesla can charge for using a tariff structure that motivates people to move their vehicle ASAP.

Just have the Supercharger screen generate a notice that clearly shows the amount of time the supercharger has been overstayed. The other supercharger users can “tag” the car with a colorful post it note or other sign that could lead to more vigilantly like justice (like unexpected non destructive flat tires) to the abusing car. They may get the message and end the abuse.

Whatever Tesla decides to do, will likely be notification and supercharger or car software specific, as much of the property where the superchargers reside, does not(I believe) belong to Tesla.

Hence, many of the proposals for Tesla to enforce parking rules or regulations, are non-starters.

Ok lets assume a solution is wanted:

1). Which involves zero modification to SC hardware or software anywhere.

2). People not familiar with “Traffic” issues don’t understand what is trying to be accomplished.

Ok fair enough.

The failsafe solution is to paint parking spots on either side of the Parking Stalls in such a manner that the cord will reach on either side of the stall.

The only trivial modification might be that the validated car on the ‘other side’ of the stall will be allowed to release the connector from the hogging car.

That way, up to 50% of the cars may be simply parked since the other ones can be charging.

Chargepoints’ dual hitching posts are often arranged that the 2 ports are accessible by 4 parking spots. Up to 2 people can be just ‘parking’ and they won’t interfere with the operation.

I’ve got to say Tesla really deserves this problem! Talk about being arrogant. I’ve been saying this would happen, in lots of different fora, over and over since the announcement of the Supercharger network and the introduction of the “free for life” charging, aka paid-upfront charging. It is RIDICULOUS how Tesla, and most of the commentators here and on other EV forums, keep ignoring the abundant evidence from Norway. Like I have pointed out so often, we have been through this. We’ve run the experiments using different pricing models. Granted, we’ve never tried a model that is AS BAD as Teslas with respect to creating the wrong incentives, but we were close: We tried per-kWh pricing. That of course meant that each unit of time passing cost less than those before, and once the car was fully charged it cost absolutely nothing to remain connected. Bad model – if not as bad as one that invites people to charge when they didn’t even need to in the first place, even make detours so they can charge for free instead of charging up at home prior to departure. And Tesla still hasn’t learned its lesson. It’s going to be interesting to… Read more »

It only takes 1 abuser to ruin it for the rest of the users…

Yeah I ultimately don’t see this as much of a problem at all.

Musk is apparently not doing a hardware change, as the fix for now seems to be ‘regulating’ of it.

People either don’t like, or don’t understand – my idea for more stalls per charger.

They can get the next best thing by having more parking spaces per charging stall, and that way there is no problem at all.

SOME TESLA SC’s (like the one near me) are situated in the MIDDLE of a LOT so that way it is easy to pull the car on either side of it, and the whole problem can be simply fixed with a yellow paint brush to mark lines for new parking spaces on the flip side of the Tesla Cord.

But probably those that have the charging stalls in a corner, would have to have them moved so that cars could get on either side of them.

It is rather surprising that in view of future car sales they constantly talk about, that they couldn’t do the cheap location logistics when they were building these things. Unless the mindset was “Just throw the things in anywhere’ and we’ll worry about relocating things properly later’.

Simple: update the super charging agreement.

Once fully charged, the tesla will auto pilot drive itself to a designated parking area, and will get billed for parking for an extended period.

This is going to happen more and more as more EVs are sold. Also EVs are going to last twice as long compared to ICE vehicles. All charging stations will see this. I think in the near future EVs with 30 or less EV miles should be not allowed at charging stations that are used constantly. Also EV owners need to move their vehicle to regular parking when charging is done

I have no sympathy for cheap rich people who buy expensive electric cars then don’t want to pay for the power.

Kick abusers off the charging network.

Would have hurt sales but SuperChargers could have been a “for-fee” implementation from the start. Credit card on record must be active and kWh at .06/kWh (still darn cheap) for all users. Drop price of car by 500-1000 dollars but make everyone pay for every kWh on a “limited cost” basis.

Solution: Don’t buy an EV which uses a single company proprietary charging format.

Don’t text/alert when done. Text/alert when 10-minutes until done, 5-minutes until done and every 1-minute after it’s done.

Users could, of course, opt-out of these alerts so what’s the use? How do you “reach” those who must expose their entitlement?

I drove the 2009 Escalade across country this year to avoid a 38 hour estimated total charge wait from CA to PA roundtrip with 50 forty-five minute stops.

The actual 17 six minute gas fills took about 2 hours of total wait time. Most of that was to clean the windshield.

Can there be parking attendants?

The if you leave the Tesla there more than 15 minutes over the time fully charged, then the attendant has the RIGHT to move your car. AND charge you $10 for moving it. Also, the clock now starts ticking as valet parking at $12 per hour or 5 cents per minute.

People are using the chargers like parking spots. Might as well charge them for it.