Beverly Hills Bans Public Charging For Plug-In Hybrids

MAR 29 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 97

Starting this April, plug-in hybrids will no longer be able to use public charging stations in Beverly Hills, California.

Instead, those charging sites will be open only to pure electric cars. Here’s the wording from the release:

“In order to improve access for vehicles that are 100% reliant on electric power, the new policy reserves the City’s EV charging stations for battery-only electric vehicles. All other vehicles (including plug-in hybrid electric vehicles) and any vehicle without an active charging session or not connected to a station may be subject to citation and/or towing at the owner’s expense.”

Related  – Electric Vehicle Etiquette By ClipperCreek – Infographic

In some ways this makes sense to us, in others it doesn’t.

Certain areas of California are overwhelmed by plug-in vehicles, which means that there aren’t yet enough charging stations for all, so to favor a pure electric car seems right in these instances.

However, plug-in hybrid buyers largely bought these vehicles on the grounds that they’d be able to charge them as needed to reduce gasoline miles as much as possible.

This new regulation in Beverly Hills is sure to be of high debate. The easiest solution we see is to install more charging stations and possibly to increase charging fees.

We’ve included the press blast below for additional details:

City’s New Electric Vehicle Charging Policy Takes Effect

Updated policy encourages more efficient use of City’s 35 EV charging stations

Beverly Hills, CA – As more electric vehicles enter the market and our roadways, the City of Beverly Hills has established a new Electric Vehicle (EV) charging policy to prepare the City’s EV charging infrastructure to meet the increasing demand.

The new policy, effective April 2, 2018, encourages more availability and efficient use of the City’s 35 publicly available EV charging stations. Currently, 59 Level 2 connections are
available in 14 City parking facilities and at Roxbury Park.

Key components of the EV Charging Policy include:
 implementing energy and station fees, in addition to facility parking fees
 prohibiting plug-in hybrid electric vehicles from charging
 implementing new enforcement regulation inherent in signage

The new rate structure establishes an Energy Fee of $0.25/kilowatt-hour (kWh)—applicableonly when the vehicle is actively charging—to recover the cost of providing electricity, as well as a Station Fee of $6/hour—applicable after the first two hours of establishing a connection, regardless of whether the vehicle is charging—to encourage turnover to make the station available for other users.

In order to improve access for vehicles that are 100% reliant on electric power, the new policy reserves the City’s EV charging stations for battery-only electric vehicles. All other vehicles (including plug-in hybrid electric vehicles) and any vehicle without an active charging session or not connected to a station may be subject to citation and/or towing at the owner’s expense.

Drivers should consult EV charging station signage for details about fees, rates and restrictions.

The City Council received a presentation of the proposed EV Charging Policy, based on recommendations from the Traffic and Parking Commission, at the July 5, 2016 study
session.

Categories: Charging

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97 Comments on "Beverly Hills Bans Public Charging For Plug-In Hybrids"

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Great move! Hybrids should be completely BANNED!

This seems to be the California way:

1) Make a product free
2) Realize that people overuse the free good.
3) Make up complex regulations that would have been unnecessary if the pricing was appropriate in the first place and dissuaded people from using the charger longer than necessary.
4) Turn it into a culture war between BEVs vs hybrids. There must ultimately be a protest with signs about resistance and the intersectionality of BEVs and civil rights.

We’re almost there. I’m getting my popcorn ready.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Turn it into a culture war between BEVs vs hybrids. There must ultimately be a protest with signs about resistance and the intersectionality of BEVs and civil rights.”

BEV Lives Matter!!!!

Let EV’s Charge!
Let EV’s Charge!
Let EV’s Charge!

ROTFLMAO, you’re killin me dude……..

Just remember, if we allow a PHEV to charge in our city today, then tomorrow…literally fascism!

Go get a real EV and stop f-ing crying!

+100

Given that we’re talking about Beverly Hills, more like socialism for the rich and capitalism for everyone else.

Oops, sorry, that was meant for Tom.

I think you just described socialism.

Given that we’re talking about Beverly Hills, more like socialism for the rich and capitalism for everyone else.

If they want to encourage turnover, shouldn’t they have installed rapid chargers instead? It seems kind of silly to install destination chargers and then worry that people are spending too much time at their destination.

This is just BS. Electric miles covered in a PHEV or a BEV. If there aren’t enough chargers then put more in.

I don’t really ever go there anymore so whatever but things like this are ridiculous. Ticket and or charge people who just sit there forever after they are done seems like a more sensible thing to do.

Is this a City with ONLY City L2 Charging Stations for Public Use? Have not Business (Stores, Malls, Hotels, Etc.) Offered any Charging Access for Public Charging?

Unfortunately, THIS is the California way. Throw in a few token public chargers, watch usage sky rocket, listen to people demand more chargers, cry poverty, villianize specific groups and then make laws/regulations banning those groups from using it. This is California’s blueprint for literally everything.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

I concur!

We have 7200W and 6660W chargers but the Plugin Hybrids hog them all up and charge at 33300w and sometimes less.
I know some PHEV owners even set their charge down to be able to keep charging for the duration of the 4hr limit.

They bought the car so they can have an ICE when battery is depleted. That IS ALWAYS their famed claim for the Volt, Fursion or Pip and say “when you run out of charge i’ll keep going on gas”.
Use it for that then. If you bitch about this change then you bought the wrong technology car.

Per – “the Plugin Hybrids hog them all up and charge at 33300w and sometimes less.” The – “33300w” has one too many something: Zero’s or 3’s!

Just say 3.3 kW and be done with it, if that is what you mean! Like this: “the Plugin Hybrids hog them all up and charge at 3.3 kW and sometimes less.”

(Basically – at Half Throttle! Try Taking off a Plane at 50% Throttle, and see how that works!)

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

yes, typo.

My i-MiEV and my LEAF both can only charge ~3.3kW. 🙁

Fortunately I rarely have to use public chargers… once a year at worst.

> 33300w and sometimes less

I think you’ll find it’s “almost ALWAYS” less!

Funny mistakes aside, I agree with you. But will you go where this logically leads? With energy-based billing there’s little incentive for anyone to use a charging point appropriate for their car. With time-based billing, it’s optimal to always use the fastest charger your car can make use of, but no faster. (With time-based pricing the price per minute is higher for faster chargers. Hence, when appropriately used, it does still relate to the energy received. When abused, however, the abuser at least pays a price. And this is true not just for the extreme cases but also for BEVs needlessly charging to 95% when 70% would be quite enough and there’s another charger on the route for backup. It gets some people to stop twice instead of once, charging for less time but the same energy in total. That’s cheaper for everyone. Fewer chargers needed in total to deal with the peaks at Easter, Christmas and so on. Imagine when 20% of the fleet rather than 0.2% of the fleet is electric.)

PHEV drivers do not know the anxiety of being blocked out of a charger. It has been my expereince they have poor charger manners as a result. I often see PHEVs clogging charging stations for hours after their charge is completed.

Tragedy of the commons. That is why chargers should usually be fee based with the cost per minute going up after an hour or two.

I’ve observed that it is the “mild” PHEV owners (Plug-in Prius and Prius Prime owners, Volvo’s, BMW X5’s etc) that are the real culprits. Volt owners have been more curteous to other BEV owners. I’m guessing that’s because many, if not most, Volt owners have a BEV or have owned a BEV.

One Prius Prime owner in our parking garage likes to keep his Prime plugged in ALL DAY!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Let me give you an example of how inconsiderate some people are.

In a parking garage a few blocks away, there are 14 AC L2’s 6000KW and there is one of them labeled “208VAC 40A” (8320W), just one.
Even when there are 10 spots open, A plugin hybrid pulls into it and uses it at sub 3300W.

Maybe it is an auto Designers Fault? Maybe they should simply NOT Charge, at a Station that offers greater than 4 kW? I mean – they could be plugged in all day, but get no charge added! A Message Could POP UP on their System when they start back up:

“You have Used a Charging Station that is TOO POWERFUL! No Charge Was Acquired! Please Select one that Is Correct for this Vehicle! See Owners Manual – Page XXX!”

They would start to Educate themselves really, REALLY, FAST! (Ignorance is Bliss, and Arrogance is Punished!)
😉

The problem with that idea is they will have essentially disanled the charger all day.

We’re BEV drivers, and it doesn’t make sense to me.

It may be relevant in specific isolated locations, e.g., remote state parks, etc. – but not in the ubiquitous urban/suburban L2 chargers. In particular since an increasing majority of BEVs have quick-chargers for emergencies.
In the city, the mutual interest is that PHEVs keep charging up, so as to reduce in-city ICE emissions and CO2 emissions in general.

Of Course they should keep charging up, but – and this is a Auto Design issue, with Public 6.6 kW Charging Stations, and Vehicles with 3.3 kW Max Charging Rates, 1st) they take 2X as long, at least, to get the same charge into them! That leads to 2nd) They TAKE EXTRA LONG At these stations, since they know they take a long time to charge! Then – that ends up being C) They could not care about the Next Guy with an EV To charge up!

Charging Station Etiquette: Something that sometimes can’t be Taught, short of Tickets, Fines, & Towing!

However – As I state Above in this Thread, Adding to this City a Couple Hundred 16 Amps Level 1, or 12-16 Amps Level 2 Charging Stations Signed as:
“PHEV Priority Charging Station” Should be Cheap Enough, and they could possibly be even Free Charging, but have Parking only Free for 2 Hours at the Charging spot! No Limit on Charging Time (Well Maybe – 12 Hours Maximum?), but Parking Fees after 2 hours, and increasing the Parking Charged Rate at the 4 hour mark, and again at the 8 hour mark!

Charging etiquette can be promoted but can never be widely adopted. There are just too many inconsiderate folks out there.

The PiP is the biggest enemy of BEVs. Their owners rush to hog a charging station simply because those are usually nearer parking spots by virtue of a charging station needing to be close to the building for electricity access.

They will never leave that nice parking spot even when their battery is full. I see this all the time at WORK and at the MALL.

To be fair, this behavior is not limited to hybrids. I’ve seen Leafs do it too.

The solution is not to ban hybrids. Everyone with a battery should have a fair chance. One office site I visited has this great solution. FREE charging but once you’re full, if you don’t move within 15mins, you get hit with fees (like $1 every 5mins you stay plugged in).

Even then, there are jerks. Once I saw this PiP (again) parked there but not plugged in (probably unplugged when full to avoid fees but refused to move).

This is total BS. I understand they are charging money for these stations. So, if they are “too full” then they need to build more stations. It’s hard to argue against the economics of that if the stations are making money and always full.

Then, dear David, why don’t you grab this no-brainer business opportunity and turn yourself into a multi-millionaire?

Because your don’t believe your own feigned anger, that’s why.

I guarantee you if this were a problem in my own town, I’d be investing my own money in more stations. But I’m not going to fly across the country to Beverly Hills and install stations there.

Well, I am in the active process in trying to educate a Vending Machine Servicing Company – that an Empty Machine Earns them no Money! When it is filled up once a week, but empty for 5 days, it fails to earn what it could, and pisses folks off! This City has a similar issue – Too Many Customers, not enough Service! Maybe Need a similar re-education program! Also – They Could Offer PHEV’s in their City – Some Special Low Charging Rate Charging Stations, that EV (BEV) Drivers would not want to use! Label These “PHEV PRIORITY “. These could be Kept Free, and for Emergency use! (Since they would be there, but not preferred Stations! However – Great for the 4+ Hour Crowd!*) {*As long as a parking fee is included after 2 hours!} As Such – I think they could get Cheap Clipper Creek Charging Stations for $379.00 >>> https://store.clippercreek.com/residential?sort=p.price&order=ASC A) ACS-15, 12 Amp Level 1 EVSE, 120V, with 25 ft cable, or ACS-20, 16 Amp Level 1 EVSE, 120V, with 25 ft cable: INEXPENSIVE TO INSTALL. INEXPENSIVE TO OPERATE. B) LCS-15, 12 Amp Level 2 EVSE, 240V, with 25 ft cable, ClipperCreek’s revolutionary LCS-15 electric vehicle… Read more »

You forgot, “AND NOW a WORD from our SPONSOR”.

I like my Duosida 16 amp $199 ‘charging cord’. Nice heavy cords and plugs, substantial case, and quick negotiation to the car. That is why they’re selling a ton of them. They also make a similar 32 amp model for around $350.

Bill,

Glad to hear you like the Duosida. I saw them on Amazon but the low cost scared me away – I was worried about plugging the car into something that might be low quality. I’ll give them a second look!

HI Mr. Newt.. Just as the Japanese quickly threw off their ‘poor quality junk’ stigma from the 50’s and 60’s by the 70s and 80s (think SONY, JVC, Goldstar (LG) – they’re Korean I know but basically the same principle, Panasonic and Toshiba), and now make quality products, likewise, I think China has at least started to make SOME quality stuff by now. 15 years ago I bought a Chinese drill press where you had to BANG the side of the motor with a hammer to make the starting switch operate when it got up to speed to prevent the motor smoking. I think they’ve gotten beyond that point… An interesting story would be for fellow Bowlers here. From 1956 BRUNSWICK made the type ‘A’ (for Automatic) pinsetter, and then made a 50% Speed increase (with no motor change) in 1962 to come up with the A2. Cycle time decreased from 9 to 6 seconds. (I forget the year, but the A2 was deemed too hard on the pins and they came out with a compromise speed sometime later – the so called ‘JetBack’ models) . More A2’s were sold than any other in the world and to this day… Read more »

CA continues to lead the way in the US. This is definitely the right way to go.

If only it was similarly intelligent about FCVs and particularity their CARB credits…

Does BH offer free charging? That could explain some of the problems. If they price it similar or bit more than gasoline, I doubt there’d be so much problem.

Free charging SUCKS!!!

They do, not only free charging (on Chargepoint EVSEs, no less) but free parking

so yes I don’t blame em at all

How about ‘Free Sundays’ and a higher rate for the other 6 days?

I was wondering what took you so long to chime in. This whole thread reminds me of a great saying:

“Nobody Goes There Anymore, It’s Too Crowded.”–Yogi Berra.

I drive a BEV. I have never been a fan of hybrids and I’ve been ICEd more than a few times by hybrids. However, I think banning them completely may be an extreme measure. First of all there are far too many drivers, of both BEVs and PHEVs, using public charging to ‘top-off’ or unnecessarily charge when they don’t actually need it. If we’re being 100% honest here it’s usually to get the better parking space. The other cause for this type of behavior is range-anxiety. Feeling the need to plug in every time there is a charger available. Usually it’s because the driver doesn’t have enough experience with the vehicle to confidently know or trust the range capabilities. Second, in most places, I would think especially California, it’s rarely ever necessary for locals to charge away from home in the area where they live. It’s difficult for me to believe folks living in & around the Beverly Hills area don’t have/aren’t using home charging. So, like most other cities and towns in America the public charging should be used predominantly by visitors. The major problem I see with PHEVs using chargers is they use them like BEV drivers. Plug… Read more »

Per: “If BEV & PHEV drivers would simply make the effort to move their vehicle when charged the turnover at charging stations would be much higher. “, I think this is partly because they have too many places with too few charging stations, making it even harder to Monitor!

If they had, for example – 4 Sites around the City, each with 2 DC Quick Chargers and 12 L2 Charging Station at 7.2 kW, and another 20 at 3.3 kW, but – in a Valet Parking Mode Only, So that Cars are Actually Rotated through Fast Chargers if a BEV, then to Higher Rate L2’s (first stop for any PHEV that Can Use this Rate Properly), and then to the Slow L2’s (Where All the Rest of the PHEV’s go – from the Start! Then when Each is charged, it is rotated OFF the Charger!

(Sounds like a Interesting Business Model, all of it’s own – Just add a Hot Dog & Burger Stand, and some chairs! Some Beach Umbrellas – Instant Patio Service!)

It would have been nice if they could have solved this in a slightly smoother manner, by giving priority to BEVs and allowing PHEVs to charge only if no BEV wants the charger. The problem, of course, is enforcement.

This is also a good example of a situation energy-based billing handles badly. Especially in Europe where the slow option is typically a 22 kW type 2. Using it at 3 kW is incredibly wasteful of resources, but it’s everyone else who pays the price for that when it’s being billed by the kWh. With per-minute pricing, its very expensive to use a charger that can deliver way more than you can take, so you try to avoid it if you can.

Both of my BEVs only charge at 3.3kW. It’s not just PHEVs/EREVs that charge at the slower rate.

3.3 kW BEV’s? Smart ED, and iMiEV – for Sure, but what others? And – Smart is now (for new ones) 6.6 kW Charging (in Canada, anyway, sure the USA is the Same!)

Terawatt: “…Using it at 3 kW is incredibly wasteful of resources.” Not wasteful to the guy who is paying the electric bill. I tell a funny story about the ‘Drive Electric’ meet up a few years ago in Irondequoit (near Rochester, NY) at the trendy “I-Square” Public meeting place. They installed 2 of the latest dual ChargePoint units (4 cars). The cars started showing up – first an old Leaf, then a new leaf plugged into the new docking station – 5 minutes later both cars died. Then an “S” was the third car, and another new Leaf was the 4th. After 30 seconds THOSE 2 cars died. Maintenance guy who helped out on the install of those units showed me the brand new Loadcenter (thats “Consumer Unit” for those across the pond), and found they only put in two 40 ampere circuits. The maintenance guy seemed to want to help out so I asked if he knew whether the wiring to the units was #6 AWG (i.e. enough to switch the circuit breakers to 60 amps each), and he said yes he thought so (oversized wiring due to the extremely long run of cable) – he was going to… Read more »
(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

One problem that causes this are “dumb” EVSE’s.
Most are standalone but what is needed are smarter EVSE’s that can incur escalating cost for an owner when they leave their car parked there all day after they “top off” their plugin hybrid.
This applies to both Plugin hybrids and EV’s.

Personally I think they should have EVSE’s that are 10KW – 20KW and should be smart enough to determine if the car that plugs in can charge at a minimum of 7.2KW (adjustable for later higher wattage) then energize. If it can’t charge at 7.2KW or more then do not energize.

Great. None of my cars will charge, even though they’re BEVs. How about no.

Don’t feel bad – when the docking stations fill up full with only BEV’s California will Solve the problem as only California Can.

Since the head of CARB only drives Fuel Celled Vehicles, next besides banning PHEV’s they’ll also BAN BEV’s and convert the docking stations to Hydrogen dispenseries.

In So. Cal. there are two types of people, those in BH and the rest of us and neither group gives a flying Frick about what the other does or thinks so this is really unimportant.

I don’t give two hoots as long as I am not blocked from charging.

This is a great start… I hope this becomes the new standard.

They just need two things:
#1 – Tow away cars that aren’t plugged in.
#2 – Charge idle fees for car which are plugged in but not charging.

+1

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

#3 – VTG back the juice to the grid down to 35% SOC.

Those people are freaking retards.

What they need is to add the fees first and then see if it is still a problem. I am willing to bet that it was “free” that caused the overcrowding issues.

Additionally, if the station is open and they are charging a fee to compensate for the usage, then allowing PHEV is equally good because it pays for the station cost as well as reducing gasoline usage for all of us.

This legislation is probably written by BEV purist who have agenda against PHEV. This is why EV sales won’t take off any sooner due to stupid infighting like this.

Fees could help, but not when it’s only $0.25/kWh. That’s still cheaper than gasoline and/or home charging for some. If they made it $0.35/kWh, it would be about that of gasoline (30 MPG). Given that most PHV gets better than 30 MPG, that might be the minimum.

Better would be $0.49/kWh like Blink; that’ll get almost all PHV off the chargers. That will free up L2 for those who truly need them.

Besides your argument that too many competing EV Drivers are Cheap, I believe we should be promoting PHEV’s to Charge up when they need to, by offering a reasonable rate, at the start, jumping up after a suitable time period (this is for the Charging Cost), but that part itself does not need to be exorbitant! It could actually be quite low for the first hour, particularly if these were 3.3 kW or Lower Chargers! Charging Not More than $1.00 Per Hour for the first 2 hours, then $3.00 Per Hour After the first 2 hours, would be reasonable, it seems to me! That is – if you want them just to spend an hour or two at the plug! Simply Combine these L2 Chargers with a Tiered Parking Fee, in a Controlled Structure: 1st Hour – Free; 2nd Hour = $2.00; 3rd Hour = $3.00; 4th Hour (or any part thereof) = $5.00; 6th Hour (or any part thereof) = $10.00; 7th Hour (or any part thereof) = $20.00; 8th Hour (or any part thereof) = $50.00; 9 Hours or More – up to 12 Hours = $100.00! 12 Hours or More = $500.00! That should get them to… Read more »

“Fees could help, but not when it’s only $0.25/kWh.”

There is also a $6/session fee after 2 hours.

I avoid crowded downtowns like a plague so this might be a stupid question, but…..

If a city has parking meters or paid parking garages, etc then why not just make the charging spots higher rate places to park? For instance let’s say it’s $2/hr to park in front of a meter (and they all have max times anyway). Most have some kind of power source already (I’m sure some newer ones are solar and whatnot). Can’t they just put a level 2 outlet in the thing and charge a higher rate for that spot regardless of whether you are charging? Say $4/hr. Many new meters take credit cards too. Is that too easy or simple? What am I missing? Still have too many ice vehicles parking there? Well at least they are getting charged double. And if that’s the case just keep putting more and more in until that’s not the issue. My idea assumes the extra $2/hr is sufficient to pay for itself plus some so that there’s incentive for the city to add more.

The root problem is not enough chargers. If they aren’t planning for the eventuality of EVERY vehicle being an EV, then they’re approaching it wrong. A measure like this should have a strict sunset provision of one year at most, and in the meantime quadruple the number of charging stations.

No, the problem is free charging. People will plug in every chance they get whether needed or not. Unless every single parking spot in the whole city has a charger, free will lead to congestion.

You’re spot on…

I’d imagine only a small minority of PHEV owners are “cheap”, however “cheap” opportunists are naturally attracted to the generous incentives, cheap or free “fuel” and less maintenance…If one of those people sees free charging they simply cannot resist plugging in…

Obviously some people will agree other disagree …. but, can anyone explain to me, why would anyone take the time and go L2 charge their piddly hybrid battery to a city charger??? This is not the same as work charging L2 which is right where one works.

Just charge at home and be done with it. Not enough juice to get EV power on the way home … oh well, perhaps time to re-consider a vehicle next time around, if it bothers you.

Huh? People go to cities to shop/dine/bank. Seems like a perfect use of L2 chargers whether PHEV or BEV.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Seems like a perfect use of L2 chargers whether PHEV or BEV.”

It’s THE PRECISE REASON they bought a PHEV!!!!…..so they can suck and swallow OPEC Jizz.

#PHEVLivesMatterToo (well, at least Volts and i3 RExs and Clarity plugins). Screw the <30 mile crowd.

i3 REx comes with DCFC, not dependent on L2 for public charging in BH.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“#PHEVLivesMatterToo (well, at least Volts and i3 RExs and Clarity plugins). Screw the <30 mile crowd."

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaa!!!!!1.

LMAO

I drive a Volt, and I completely agree with this. If someone truly needs a charge it’s a real kick in the nuts to find all the chargers taken up by hybrids. Especially poor Leaf owners with old batteries!!!

I 100% agree with this. PHEVs shouldn’t be hogging charging spots. I see it all the time and I don’t even own an EV. If I owned an EV, that would consider that to be as bad as an ICE parking in a charging spot.

Sorry, PHEV drivers. You can charge at home. For all those other times, that’s why you have a gas engine. If you don’t like it, then you should have bought a BEV with a longer range.

I see it exactly the opposite… You BEV owners bought a car with limited range, if you don’t like it, then you should have bought a PHEV.

I happen to own both.

You mixed up the Argument – this is not Taking Trips – this is ‘Local’ City Charging being over used, from the sounds of this! You buy a PHEV – with enough Range to get you through each day, and the Gas engine to take Road Trips with – and so you don’t have to navigate via Charging Stations – if you don’t want to!

Basically – Even the 53 Mile Range Volt and 47 Mile Range Clarity PHEV, are just barely approaching the needed PHEV / EREV Ranges required to avoid Cheap Drivers doing this charge everywhere thing! Hence – put about 100 miles in the EV side, and most of this will go away – at least as a supposed reason for plugging in everywhere while on a trip in town, due to ‘Gas Anxiety!’

“PHEVs shouldn’t be hogging charging spots.”

Neither should BEV owners who can charge at home.

So, up the rate so it will get rid of all hogs, regardless of whether it is BEV or PHEV.

The car itself is innocent. Don’t ban the car. Punish the owners who don’t do it right regardless of vehicle type. That is by charging proper fee to charge.

If PHEV’s and a selection of BEV’s only charge at a Max Rate of 3.3 kW, why not just have Stations added that offer exactly that? Label them specifically 3.3 kW Charging stations, and – for 6.6 kW Charging Stations (or Higher – Like Clipper Creek 60A & 80A Stations) Ticket & Tow if not the right vehicles are using them, particularly if they are located beside ‘Empty’ 3.3 kW Charging Stations!

If public charging is free, aka tax-subsidized, as in my city, why should BEV drivers have preference and PHEV drivers be punished ? They all pay taxes. If you run out of battery when on your latte run with your $130k Tesla, you’re simply not planning ahead.

Tesla’s using Slow Public Charging is the Problem here? Doubt it! Maybe iMiEV’s! LEAF’s! smart ED’s! e500’s! FFE’s! Etc!

However – why would any 3.3 kW Charging PHEV need to plug in at a 6.6 kW Charging Spot, instead of a 3.3 kW Charging Spot? Except to Piss of People, Arrogance, and Ignorance? Or All 3!

Precisely! Seeing as the goal is to get more electric miles on the road you would think they’d realize that BEVs shouldn’t need to charge as much. With the Fusion/Primes of the world getting in the 20s they need to charge more often than say a 238 mile Bolt, a 140 (or whatever) Leaf, or a 200+ Tesla…

Everybody hates PHEV drivers (1/gen Volt here)

SUV/PU drivers think we’re a bunch of self-righteous a-holes when we coast to a stoplight (rather than racing to up to slam on the brakes and wait).

Conversely we fail the BEV driver purity test when the ERDTT function takes over below 15degF or we go to “Hold” for a freeway leg.

Hilarious, TBH. F___ all y’all.

I think a simple time based rate like EVGo’s $1.50 per hour works as a good solution overall. It deters PHEV’s from charging as it usually works out to $0.50 per KWh or higher since most typically only charge at 2.4 to 3.6 KW. The rate is higher than home electricity even when charging at the max rate, so that deters unnecessary charging for those opportunistic top offs. But the cost is still reasonable for a BEV so that the cost is not absurdly high that makes it more cost effective to take a gas car. Any station charging more than $0.40 a KWh when gas is sub $3 is not encouraging movement to EV’s, it is doing the opposite. If I can take a Leaf or a Bolt on a 300 mile trip and have to pay charging costs that exceed that of fuel for a 20 MPG vehicle, then I may as well take the 20 MPG gas hog out. There’s definitely a fine line to reasonable pricing – no free public charging, but public charging should definitely cost more than home charging. I can’t image a Plug in Prius driving plugging into a station that charges $1.50… Read more »

Makes sense. BEVs NEED to charge, PHEVs can charge but don’t need them. Charge at home if chargers are limited.

For those (David Murray) that say BEV owners should have bought a PHEV so they don’t have to worry about charging… thats exactly why the vast majority of people buy an ICE. No range anxiety. No worry that you’ll be at the limit of your range and some gas car that happens to ALSO have a battery is using up the only available charging spot.

BEV low on charge is stranded. May have been relying on that charge station to extend range.

PHEV charging is a nicety to avoid using gas but no risk of being stranded.

ICE, no problem. Laughing at those EV owners worrying about how far they can go before running out of charge.

I see a lot of complaints about vehicles with slow charging rates. I also see them about small battery-capacity. Notice how no one wants to address the next stage in being green?

Some plug-ins guzzle electricity. It’s a very real problem when you step back to consider the bigger picture, when many are waiting to charge and time is limited. Why should those that waste be given priority to recharge?

31 kWh/100mi = 25 kWh/100mi

That equation is very real problem, because those electricity consumption-rates can make a big difference. Taking more to travel the same difference becomes an even worse problem when you consider the next person in line waiting to plug in.

This is why EVs are great for us enthusiasts, but still not quite ready for people still quite content with traditional vehicles. We need to work out these issues before they give a plug-in purchase some consideration.

“Any station charging more than $0.40 a KWh when gas is sub $3 is not encouraging movement to EV’s, it is doing the opposite.”

That’s only true if the EV is constantly using public L2. Most people will charge at home, and sporadic instance of ~25 MPG gas car cost won’t matter. But if made too cheap, it will be hogged by people who do not need to charge (eg. PHV) and crowd out those that do need them (eg. Fiat 500e going to beach trip).

Btw, reply broken?

70-80% is not only enough in most cases, it is also better for the battery life.

Good. I wish they would do this at my work. I’m tired of being blocked out of charging by a bunch of plugin Prius with 14 miles of EV range and left “charging” all day.

Just park perpendicularly behind them and leave a # to call when they need to leave and then when they do take 15-20 mins to go out and move your car.

You will be surprised how quickly they realize they need to move their car mid-day 🙂

It’s hard to take comments seriously with such exaggeration, you know the range isn’t that low. You also know how easy it would be to set pricing based on time. That solves the problem of arbitrary capacity cutoffs.

If the person only needs to drive 20 miles for their commute. They should have a chance to charge, then make room for the next vehicle. If that next vehicle is carrying a battery far greater than the range needed, what do you suggest?

Ah….the elites are fed up that commoners are now hogging up real estates that are meant for their modified Teslas….

This is so funny. I’d think that raising the cost of charging to $.25/kWh will leave a lot of charging spots empty. Obviously you don’t want to fill them!

Can’t see why they would need a station fee with such a high kWh cost.

Why does it seem that government workers never seem to have gotten through Econ 101?

Not a super big deal to me… People who live in or travel through 90210 or whatever it is can afford a buck per 4 kwh.
Volt owners can use Gas.

I’m sure this isn’t the end of the rule making though. When these docking stations fill up again they’ll come up with additional laws.

They’ll probably ban electrified cars entirely and only allow Fuel Celled vehicles, since that is the head of CARB’s daily driver.

And in Texas they still let pick up trucks park at all the charging spots so no EVs or plug-in can charge

Since ICE’ing is approved, Is DRY ICE’ing Also Approved?

Someone was a little bit unlucky when they tried this thing called: thinking! This was the worst legislation I’ve heard of in a long time regarding plug ins. The cars that really need public charging are the phevs! The electric ones, especially tesla and all the new long range cars, they charge at home and on rapid chargers,that’s enough. I often see teslas in my local shopping mall standing parked on a borrmaskin parking spot not charging, because they don’t need charging. The phevs though that have a range of only 30 miles, they need every chance they can get to top up so that they don’t have to burn that hiddious gasoline. Think again, think right!

Borrmaskin = normal

At the prices BH is now charging, I can’t see what ANYONE would want to charge there!

FINALLY.
A community that is getting smart.

I awaiting the whining for those with too BIG of a battery are hogging the EVSE and THEY don’t need it either.