BMW Board Member Defends Diesel, Calls Electric Car Hype Irrational

OCT 14 2018 BY EVANNEX 139

BMW BOARD MEMBER SAYS ELECTRIC VEHICLE HYPE IS ‘IRRATIONAL’ AND DEFENDS DIESEL

BMW board member in charge of development Klaus Frölich,  recently opened up about the company’s “nightmare” related to electric vehicles — he contends EV costs will “never” get to a level commensurate with the internal combustion engine. Tim Nicholson (via Go Auto) delved a bit deeper with Frölich at this year’s Paris Motor Show. In the interview, Frölich provides his thoughts surrounding the future of electric vehicles, diesel, and self-driving cars.

*This article comes to us courtesy of EVANNEX (which also makes aftermarket Tesla accessories). Authored by Matt Pressman. The opinions expressed in these articles are not necessarily our own at InsideEVs.

Above: BMW’s i4 concept car (Image: InsideEVs)

Regardless of market penetration from electric vehicle automaker Tesla, Frölich still forecasts a gasoline-fueled internal combustion engine future. He said, “I think the discussion about electro-mobility is a little bit irrational… the world – Russia, Australia, a large portion of the world – they will have combustion engines for a very long time.”

Frölich notes that his “very optimistic scenario” assumes 15% of BMW’s cars going all-electric by 2030. In turn, he sees another 15% as plug-in hybrids — complete with combustion engines which, of course, still require fossil fuels. Therefore, he says, “I have 85 per cent in my portfolio in 2030 with a combustion engine.”

Above: The “d” stands for diesel but don’t hold your breath for an all-electric BMW 3 series (Image: Todd Bianco)

When asked, Frölich did not commit to a fully electric 3 series in BMW’s future. While disregarding Europe and the United States, Frölich acknowledges, “Perhaps in China, [the] customer [would] need to have 3 Series as battery electric vehicle, I don’t know.” Instead he said the upcoming i4 would fill that gap. He describes the i4 as “a 3 Series-class four-door coupe. This car will be ICE plus PHEV.”

When the conversation turned to diesel, Frölich explains, “every politician sees only one solution – diesel bashing.” In contrast, Frölich claims he’s “very optimistic” about the future of diesel engines. He adds, “From a CO2 and customer perspective, a modern diesel is a very good solution… We have, I think, more or less the best diesels.”

Above: Earlier this year, BMW’s headquarters were raided by German prosecutors as part of the dieselgate investigation* (Youtube: Wochit News)

And while Elon Musk envisions autonomous vehicles in the near future, BMW’s R&D boss remains hesitant. In a not-so-subtle nod to the SpaceX and Tesla CEO, Frölich concludes, “Autonomous driving is not easy. A Mars mission I call it.”

===

Source: Go Auto; *Editor’s Note: According to Fortune, after German prosecutors raided BMW’s headquarters, the company was fined €10 million as 7,600 BMW vehicles were found to have been “accidentally” outfitted with diesel emission manipulation devices and implicated in Germany’s ongoing Dieselgate scandal. BMW is also being investigated as part of Germany’s automaker cartel allegations. Nevertheless, their transgressions pale in comparison to the actions of Volkswagen.

*Editor’s Note: EVANNEX, which also sells aftermarket gear for Teslas, has kindly allowed us to share some of its content with our readers, free of charge. Our thanks go out to EVANNEX. Check out the site here.

Categories: BMW

Tags: , ,

Leave a Reply

139 Comments on "BMW Board Member Defends Diesel, Calls Electric Car Hype Irrational"

newest oldest most voted
JoeInTheUK

Does Frölich hand all his new hires an ugly stick to beat their designs with?

Anyway, I believe we are now at the point where the opinion of even influential people like him is irrelevant, the snowball has started and the worst they can do is marginally slow down rollout, if BMW dont produce enough EVs for their customers others will step in to take up the slack, and their lunch will be eaten by those who see whats happening and build to cater for it.

To be unbiased, I think he’s right about autonomy. Much much harder than most think. Getting to 99% doesn’t mean you only have 1% work to do you still probably have 1000% to do.

John-EU

The problem is that his German customer base believes him and is 100% behind him. So one can only call upon the rest of the world to show that there are better ways to tackle the wicked climate!

earl colby pottinger

That is the bigger surprise for me. The last thing I thought they would do is make such an ugly looking car.

dan

All of them seem to be afflicted by the ugly disease. BMW followed up the gorgeous i8 with the ugly, buck toothed i4. Tesla followed their sensual and sexy model S with the hoisted up, squished face, alien heads that are the model X and model 3.

the future is electric

Not 100% , the EVs are getting more popular and they start to ban old diesel cars in many german cities , for example in berlin. They will soon become major players when all their new planned EVs hit the market , just wait and see.

silversod

^this exactly^ Diesel engined vehicles are going to be restricted where you will be allowed to drive them from 2019 in lots of European towns/Cities.

Daniel

Exactly. I’m German, have been driving BMWs for exactly 15 years now and will switch to Tesla next year. Originally, I reserved a Model 3 because I thought it was just objectively superior to the i3 in all respects (eventhough I didn’t hate the i3, I actually quite liked it). After the ignorant statements lately and the obscene Diesel-worshipping I wouldn’t even buy an outstanding BMW EV anymore, as I just don’t want to be seen in a BMW. Maybe I’m in the minority, but a growing one for sure.

Tilman Winkler

I’m not behind him and I don’t believe any of what he says about the Diesel engine. He’s right about autonomy.

But BMW is headed for serious trouble with this guy as an officer.

Speculawyer

Meh, Germans can and will buy EVs too. Probably at a higher rate than Americans.

Kosh

“the snowball has started”

The avalanche has begun, it is too late for the pebbles to vote….. – Ambassador Kosh, Babylon 5

Jim McLaughlin

Season 1, episode 10. Great quote.

Clive

Joel he has nothing to do with design.

But you’re a funny guy

Dante

This most important thing in all this isn’t that BMW isn’t willing to make EVs, it’s that even a member of the board doesn’t foresee BMW reaching cost parity EVER. Like the guy might be completely misguided about the industry, but is he right about BMW?

Pushmi-Pullyu

The only way that BMW won’t ever achieve cost parity between BEVs and gasmobiles — followed very shortly by BEVs being less expensive — is if BMW goes out of business within the next 5 years. If this dinosaur’s attitude is indicative of BMW’s leadership as a whole, that’s a distinct possibility. Not every major legacy gasmobile maker is going to survive the EV revolution.

We will hope, for the sake of BMW’s employees, that BMW is quietly working behind the scenes to develop a line of compelling BEVs which are truly competitive and intended to be built in large numbers. We will hope that this guy’s attitude is an outlier.

G2

I see a board membership opening in the near future before guys like this Luddite trash the stock first, and then the whole company.

zwittiker

Regarding autonomy, it doesn’t have to be perfect it simply has to be better than humans. That’s a pretty low bar.

William

BMW, you can keep your 7,600 Deceptive Dirty Diesels, that were “accidentally” outfitted with manipulation software and hardware.

Now about your statement, “a modern Diesel is a very good solution”. It seems as though your doubling down on more of the same lie, cheat, and steal, Diesel-ception, that we have already seen and lived through, from VW.

“Diesel bashing” is what needs continue, in trying to keep the Fraudulent Fahrvergnügen Facists, from gassing this planet and its people, into a nEVer ending toxic wasteland.

William

The anagram for Wasteland is TeslaDawn.

Here’s hoping for a new day, and some forward EV thinking, from the likes of BMW.

super390

“From a CO2 and customer perspective, a modern diesel is a very good solution…”
Apparently he believes the only options are fast suicide and slow suicide.

pjwood1

Yeah, these numbers are difficult. Because you cannot filter of catalyze out the CO2, its a straight function of mpgs. Diesels don’t get much past 40mpg, in practice. North of 50 is possible, but that is nowhere near as low as the CO2 coming from electricity, which is falling FAST. The US has four states receiving 30-37% of their electricity from wind. Natural gas has replaced much of the coal, leading to 80-100mpg equivalents, and beyond. That is so much better than your 25-30mpg diesel SUV, or 40mpg passenger car. No contest.

What do diesels do for regeneration, make diesel fuel? Are they using kinetic recovery? Is there any cheap $$ hope for what to do with it & ICE? Gonna sit me down, and talk mild 48v PHEV? Goodbye incrementalism.

Lou Grinzo

When people try to tell me that my EV (which happens to be recharged with 100% green electricity) still pollutes because you can’t generate electricity without CO2 emissions, I tell them that we have to make very deep, across-the-board CO2 cuts, which means electricity simply must get much cleaner, approaching zero emissions in a couple of decades. And as that transition occurs, EV drivers will pollute less without doing anything different, and in most cases without even know their local utility switched to a cleaner form of generation.

The more EVs on the road now, the better it is for everyone on the planet and all those yet to be born. Period.

TomN

Yes, Frölich is the same guy who announced BMW’s upcoming ‘mild-hybrid’ cars last year. What a joke. You add a little battery and small electric motor in the car that doesn’t even have enough power to move the car and you now have a ‘mild hybrid’. Throw one of these little things onto the gasoline engine and you can now call it a hybrid and say that you have electrified it. A solution that is all marketing and no substance.

Larry Al

How do you “accidentally” outfit your cars with diesel emission manipulation devices?

Beat

Well, if he doesn’t believe in EV, that means that he never drove really good EVs for a week or so.

If he steers BMW away from them, no issue, Darwin will take care of him and BMW. Which is kind of a pitty, as BMW’s engineers already made nice EVs, and BMW is a “premium” brand, so price is usually not an issue if you buy BMW. But comfort is, and EVs are just so much more comfortable.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“Well, if he doesn’t believe in EV, that means that he never drove really good EVs for a week or so.”

I don’t think that’s his problem.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” –Upton Sinclair

scott

Ironically, it has been the utilization of fossil fuels which has completely negated natural selection with regard to H. sapiens.

jeffhre

BMW engineers will be fine. They will still be very talented wherever they are working. Herr Frölich will be just fine also. He will simply be another very wealthy man working on how to allocate his time in retirement.

G2

Maybe he and Boob Putz can start a comedy duo….

Pushmi-Pullyu

They need to open up a retirement home for aging gasmobile maker executives who are in denial about the EV revolution.

This guy can sit on the front porch in his rocking chair, along with Bob Lutz. They can take turns yelling “Get off my lawn, you damn kids!” at the increasing numbers of people driving by in their Teslae, their Leafs, their Bolt EVs, their Volts, their Clarity PHEVs, and other plug-in EVs. 😉

“We have, I think, more or less the best diesels.”

And the Stanley Motor Carriage Co. had, more or less, the best steam-powered cars.

Vexar

Spend some time this weekend and write a sitcom pilot called “Get Off my Roads” and I think you’ll have a winner, telling just this sort of story. Set it up in Venezuela, there should be some nice tie-ins.

Taylor Marks

The German Government is very swift to censor nazism in any way that isn’t extremely negative.

Seems like they should take the same approach to diesel. This guy is talking about diesel and not about how they cheated, and in fact is talking it up? Their government should at the very least fine him and the company, and more likely should have him removed from the board.

Rightofthepeople

Why would the government fine him, for saying something stupid? If they did that they might be fining every board member of every German company every quarter, they are all human after all. And removing him from the Board for this would seem to be a slight over reaction. Just let nature take its course man. If BMW ignores the growing threat of EVs and decides to focus more on ICE they and thier shareholders will pay the price.

G2

How about remove him from the board to protect investors and workers?

Hauer

Good luck with your 2030 portfolio.

Rasmus Christensen

Now we know which brand not to buy.
Their only vision for the future is maximum profit.

a-kindred-soul

Going out of business for me is something different then going for maximum profit.

olaf

I think some lower level management will not be happy by this kind of comments by a board member. Just a small remark. If BMW keeps increasing their plug in and electric vehicles on the same speed they do now they will be fully converted before 2030…

MaartenV NL

BMW is the champion of the fake plug-in. There is not much focus on BEV at BMW. With an extension of the current policies, there won’t be a BMW in 2030.

Tim

It’s interesting that he thinks BMW will still be in business in 2030. They don’t appear interested in that.

Vexar

Most of the people I talk to about EVs are in one of two camps: too poor to buy a new car, or saving up/waiting for a price point/model. I have one very sad friend who is all about her Ford stuff. I don’t know what to tell her, other than “if they make it, it will lag behind.” Ford has all but given up on passenger cars, so unless they pick up the pace, Tesla is going to roll out the pickup and Model Y and that will pretty much kill off Ford.

rad

I have driven only Ford and Mercury vehicles for 45 years. My next vehicle will have a plug and it won’t be a Ford. Treat that Model 3 gently. I may be its next owner.

rey

We’re all waiting for that gently used Tesla, specially that mod 3, you have to get in line, Behind me, please.

sola

This guy sounds completely crazy and very irresponsible.

He doesn’t seem to understand that a 15% EV share in 2030 will mean the end of BMW as a car maker. By 2030, Tesla and other EV makers will take all of their markets over if they don’t start producing competitive EVs very-very soon.

super390

Since it’s clear that the premium/luxury sector is electrifying first, and BMW makes its living in that sector, you are correct. Low-end companies have more time, until the inner-city ICE bans chase them out of too many city-car markets.

EV Tart

Not sure if he is crazy , But Desperate times have already started , so we can guess about demise of BMW by 2030

Rav4 or 5

His comments are illogical and meant to feed some FUD into the media and he knows it. Buy 2030 it is highly likely that battery technology will have advanced sufficiently to bring EV production cost in line with ICE. And any fool knows owning and driving an EV is better than an ICE car. I haven’t looked at the numbers, but isn’t Model 3 bigly hurting BMW sales in the US? His comments are a defensive posture for when Model 3 blitz’s Europe causing German media coverage and youtubers start raving about the car.

Colin Fox

Model 3 is hurting sales of just about everything in the US. This guy is standing on the titanic yelling “We have the best diesel engines!” as water is up to his ankles. “Just imagine where we’ll be in another 12 years!” he yells, as the water rises to his waist…

theflew

Tesla’s sales hasn’t hurt the sales of anyone. They are selling to a market the big guys are pretty much abandoning as fast a possible. But I agree this guy doesn’t have a grasp on reality to make statements about cars over a decade from now

Tim

Is that the “I didn’t even WANT to sell those kinds of cars anyway.” excuse? Pretty sure if a manufacturer makes a model in a segment, their preference is to sell lots of them. With this kind of statement from a BMW board member, it appears they think there will always be a big market for smartphones with physical keyboards.

Tesla is outselling Mercedes and Porsche already in the USA. BMW is next. I would say “good luck” but I don’t want them to have it.

Get Real

LMAO at the flew’s BS assertion that the Germans haven’t lost market share to Tesla.

Read and weep flew:
https://insideevs.com/tesla-luxury-automakers-bmw/https://
evobsession.com/tesla-to-take-up-to-50-of-us-small-luxury-market-bmw-mercedes-audi-get-disrupted/https://
cleantechnica.com/2018/09/25/tesla-an-uncomfortable-wake-up-call-for-germany-all-hands-on-deck/

Rav4 or 5

He must have been one of the guys at the board meeting who voted “no” on developing i3 and i8.

I hear he voted “yes” on the Blackberry charge and sync cradle for the i8 though.

Xcel

We can do without the diesel portfolio of Frolich. Okay, the prosecutors will be looking for his diesel portfolio.

groingo

Apparently by not living in the real world he tends to be looking through smoggy glasses, oh the world of denial.
The clouds parted and Elon was heard to say….”another bottle of Teslaquilla please” and all was good with the world….a men.

Bill Howland

Not sure what to make of Herr Frolich’s comments here…..

When he says “BMW makes among the best Diesels”, the reporter should say, “exactly how good are they – and what is this ‘accidental emissions defeat software’ all about? Is it totally Robert Bosch’s fault?

I would like to hear how many NOx and particulate matter come from their Diesels, and how they compare with competitive brands, such as GM in the States.

At least when Lexus officially states something – they at least have in the background a reliable car, something BMW of late cannot match.

Chris S

“BMW and PSA vehicles show the lowest mean excess NOx emissions”. GM seems to be around 8 times higher than BMW. This data is for Europe from “Country- and manufacturer-level attribution of air quality impacts due to excess NOx emissions from diesel passenger vehicles in Europe”.

EV Tart

Yes , the above results were achieved, till the cheat device was discovered. That is why GM did not get into trouble , but the cheaters were caught.

Chris S

Those are measurements on the streets, after Dieselgate.

Vinay R

Battery energy density and cost improves at least 5% year, my 1999 Civic gives me 33 MPG and my 2015 Civic 35 MPG, If history is our guide it’s not a complicated math.

Matthew Kennel

1999 civic weight: 2339-2612 lbs, hp 106 to 160

2015 civic weight: 2749-3002 lbs, hp 143 to 205

arne-nl

Yup, there’s the cause of stagnation on the MPG front….

Nonbiker

But nature doesn’t care about the weight difference! I don’t know why you got upvotes. MPG is MPG.

Joe J

I agree. Eric The Car Guy posted a video relating to Dieselgate a while back talking about how we’re quite simply at the limits of efficiency from an ICE. There’s always a large portion of energy lost to waste heat, and even though engines are getting more and more advanced and efficient, we’ve approached the point of diminishing return.

amt

I won’t Buy His Hiddious Crap Either Way !

EV Tart

You mean the car ?

AP

The Germans are getting desperate. From an article on Clean Technica 10/11/18:

Volkswagen Admits It Is Moving Into EVs Too Late, Pushes Back On Emissions Cuts. Volkswagen chief Herbert Diess has threatened massive job losses across its European factories — up to 100,000 workers — if the EU moves forward with new regulations that would mandate automakers slash emissions 35% in the coming years… It should come as no surprise, then, that Diess is back at the podium this week to push back on the proposed EU emission regulations, threatening with the only trick left in the book — jobs. Underpinning his comments is the truth that the entire German auto industry, which employs 1 in 7 German workers directly and as many as 1 in 3 German workers indirectly, is at risk of being washed out if it does not build electric vehicles in line with customer demand.

Milfan

At least he says 15% electric and 15% plugin and we should be happy with that.
In another 3 years, he will say 25% electric and 20% plugin and in another 6 years, it will be 40% electric and 30% plugin.

Diesel is on decline, how are they going to fix it. May be they can try a hybrid, plugin version with diesel engine.

DAVID

They’re fixing the diesel decline by selling their stock to Russia and Australasia.

Matthew Kennel

He’s still thinking about the manufacturer only. Customers pay for the fuel, and other people pay with their lungs and children from the pollution.

This attitude is why the ‘i’-division that made the i3 and i8 are now working for Byton. BMW was ahead of all the legacy automakers in 2013. But there was a fight internally and the Dieselkopfs won and decreed that in the future the EV and ICE platforms would be shared, which is BMW-speak for an ICE platform with an interior full of buttons buttons buttons and an uncompetitive compliance EV.

And no, it will not be diesel that’s the ICE future but something like Mazda’s compression ignition gasoline engine or a small range extender.

BTW I think Byton is underrated as a future EV power.

J P DeCaen

Good point about Mazda’s high efficiency gas engines although I still prefer ev’s.

a-kindred-soul

Electric cars are easier to produce; they have much less (moving) parts. That they still are more expensive to produce by most companies is because they are less mass produced (rare = expensive) and batteries are still costly. But knowing that batteries will continue to get cheaper, EVs will be mass produced and they are simpler to make means without any doubt that they will soon become the cheaper option. But only those who will dare to mass produce and dare to reserve/built enough batteries will be able to offer these lower cost cars to buyers, so only those will survive.

Yannick

I am leaving in Munich, sold last week my BMW 530 D touring. Now I am driving a Tesla Model X 100D. The best answer to the diesel gate.

Rolando

When living in Munich (leaving = verlassen) you should order a locally made Sion solar-electric car.

Mark.ca

That will work if you could drive that order to work…unfortunately you need a car for that.
Personally, I’m very intrigued by the Sion and hope they do actually end up making the car at that price.

ffbj

Sure you can probably still sell diesel garbage, in Russia and Australia in 2030, South America, Africa, though most of modern world will have moved on. A number of countries, regions, and cities plan complete bans of the sales of diesel in the near future, cutting the market for them drastically. Besides which BMW might not be around in 2030, if they get their act together in the ev realm. Certainly they will produce far fewer cars. It’s already happening.
As far as ev nearer being cost competitive with ice, well that is already happening, as the price for batteries just continues to fall.
In addition evs are more reliable and also much safer by design. Even a commoner such a myself knows these basic facts.

robus

Has there been a survey of the European market to find out how many want/expect their next car to be electric? I know in the USA it was a pleasantly surprising high percentage of something like 20%?

Richard

With a leader like that customers will be fleeing in droves. I doubt he will last long in his job when the model3 arrives in Europe.

Xcel

He is going to be sacked very soon.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Australia will have internal combustion for a long time?
Oh dear.
It’s a big country, so lots of driving, right?
Australians drive an average of under 10,000 miles per year. They live in the Southeast and on the West Coast, and they fly a lot to travel long distances.
It also sunny, and windy.
It’s a country that will flip very quickly as costs continue to fall.

Of course, it gets worse, since he’s projecting more PHEVs. PHEVs can never be cheap because they’re additive. BEVs substitute, and costs keep falling.

They’re obviously feeling the pressure.

theflew

That’s not completely true about PHEV. The point is to add enough batteries to make PHEV an EV the vast majority of the time. The Volt/Clarity have about a fourth of the battery as a Bolt EV yet are in EV mode about 90% of the time. Carrying a heavy battery that you normally don’t use is added cost and wasted resources on 100% EV’s. So there is a balancing act that 100% EV’s and PHEV have to maintain.

So with a PHEV the question is – is a smaller battery plus ICE less than 100% battery only vehicle?

DAVID

“So with a PHEV the question is – is a smaller battery plus ICE less than 100% battery only vehicle?”

No, the end result is heavier.

Chevrolet Volt kerb weight: 1,721 kg
Chevrolet Bolt kerb weight: 1,616 kg

Carrying an engine “that you normally don’t use is added cost and wasted resources on 100%” PHEV’s.

See what I did there?

G2

Nicely done David.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“The Volt/Clarity have about a fourth of the battery as a Bolt EV yet are in EV mode about 90% of the time.”

Actually, for the Volt, the current average is 66.5%, according to…

https://www.voltstats.net/

But that’s quibbling. You are certainly correct to say that PHEVs with a moderate sized battery pack do support mostly EV-mode driving, as opposed to gasmobile-mode driving. I hope that PHEVs will continue to get larger battery packs; I’d love to see that number climb to around 85-90%.

Cypress

With that attitude, I don’t see much of a future for BMW.

Marshal G

I just watched a documentary on Henry Ford. Ford dominated auto sales in the US with the Model T for years, but after nearly 2 decades of producing a single model (and only in black) their sales were starting to erode as competitors started catching up and making more modern and stylish vehicles (and in different colors). Henry Ford was forced almost kicking and screaming to retire the T and come out with a new design – the Model A. He didn’t want to change because in his mind the Model T was “the perfect car” but even many of his franchisees were jumping ship to other brands. This is the impression I get when I hear the Germans talk about diesels. They are just too married to the concept to admit there is something better. The only thing saving their asses now is the fact that every serious EV competitor is battery starved or capital limited. If Elon got a huge investment from his Google pals it would not end well for BMW.

William

If Elons “Google pals”, were to generously provide a huge cash investment into Tesla, equaling 10% of their combined net worth (est. @ $100. + Billion), then that extra $10 billion could put Tesla/Panasonic Gigafatories on just about EVery continent.

Jimmy

BMW sales down 20% this year, will go bankrupt in few years

Eric
Eric says: This is my first time posting a comment on this site, even though I’ve been reading articles on here for a couple years, and I check this site about 2-3 times daily (all year long). This guy is a fool! In an article written a few hours ago, it stated that BMW set a plug in electric record in September 2018. BMW just became the first non Chinese entity to take majority hold of a Chinese (electric / battery) company BMW just invested billions in battery technology. Billions! This guy, just like the Ferrari guy, will eat up his words! The Ferrari guy said no need for aerodynamics, just increase the horsepower. This fool is now saying similar nonsense. BMW has about ten or so planned electric cars within the next 8 years. Countries or cities are banning Diesel. The Diesel market has tanked in Europe recently China is at the forefront of producing electric cars and phasing out ice, especially smelly Diesel cars The performance of electric demolishes ice cars Tesla outsold BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus combined! This is fact! What this guy claims is ignorant and short sighted. The model 3 went up against the… Read more »
Chris

Oh dear… Good luck BMW. You’re going to need it with this clown on the board.

Al D

The guy in charge of development at BMW is that devoid of insight? I agree that the current Li-ion battery isn’t an ICE killer, but solid-state will be the end of the ICE. It wasn’t long ago that BMW said it will win the solid-state race. Regardless, I see no reason why a battery pack and a couple electric motors can’t cost less to produce than an engine, transmission, exhaust system, gas tank, radiator, and the interconnecting tubes and wires. I see no reason why an EV with a solid-state battery can’t weigh less.

rey

Go on Mister BMW Fossil Head keep your head buried in the Tar sandsof Alberta and sand dunes of Saudi Arabia and elsewhere,Tesla will help bury your car and Suv sales in North America and soon Europe.

rey

Go on Mister BMW FossilHead , Tesla will gladly take that 3 series market share , Keep sticking that head in the sand.

Andy

Audi plans to sell 50.000 of their e-trons in 2019! If they reach that goal, the german car market gets a significant EV-push.

I do not really like VW and Audi, but it seems they are far more comitted to EVs, than BMW or Daimler.

SJC

EV costs will “never” get to a level commensurate with the internal combustion engine.
He could be right.
Motor, controller and gear reducer costs about the same as engine and transmission.
A battery bank will always cost more than a gas tank.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Sure, a motor with just one moving part plus a fixed reduction gearset is always going to cost about the same as an engine with 200-300 moving parts and a complex, multi-gear transmission. 🙄

You’re just as out of touch with reality as Mr. BMW here.

Speculawyer

Electric motor, controller, charger, and fixed gearbox are cheaper than ICE engine, transmission, exhaust system, fuel system, cooling system, ignition system, etc.

But a battery is orders of magnitude more expensive than a gas tank.

So I agree ICE will be cheaper. But I also maintain that does not matter since the better performance and cheaper fuel make up for the more expensive up front cost of an EV.

EVer

ICEVs are a mature technology nearing the end of lts lifetime; destined to go the way of the horse and buggy. EVs, having been delayed as long as possible by the fossil fuels industry and their bought-off politicians, is just starting to grow and the best technology bit in the future will be the great battery technology industry with the huge amounts of profits to be gained…the best part of the clean energy equation is energy will be local and has the power to less the dangers of war over energy…indirectly, the fossil fuel industry is the enemy of peaceful people.

Get Real

Yes, SJC has once again proven that he is more or less, anti-EV.

This after he in the past professed his love for…fool cells!

EVer

This is what I would expect from BMW. They, like VW, are busy greenwashing their company with fake PR all the while working to extend their cash cow, the internal combustion engine, as long as possible…no different than in the U.S.; however, the U.S. makers are more successful because Trump and the Republican Congress are own by the fossil fuel companies. Only one lone car company has the future right and really cares about the people…guess which one?…it ain’t BMW.

Cypress

Except VW has actually invested 10’s of billions to secure batteries for their planned 3million EVs per year by 2025.

Pushmi-Pullyu

VW seems to be increasingly displaying a split personality when it comes to building EVs in large numbers. The report that they invested $48 billion (!!) to ensure near-term battery supply indicates a very, very strong commitment to building BEVs in large numbers.

But other public statements from VW indicate the very same sort of foot-dragging we’ve seen from them, fighting to slow or stop the EV revolution, that we’ve seen from them for at least a decade now.

See, for example: “Volkswagen Hits Electric Car Speed Bump, Delays I.D. Hatch Launch”

https://insideevs.com/volkswagen-electric-car-delay-id-hatch/

Are we sure those reports about $48 billion invested in battery supply are actually true? Or are those reports merely about a plan to invest that much over a period of many years?

Well it looks like some of the extra profits from overcharging for BMW models will now need to go into actual engineering and the product. But it sounds like he is stuck in old ICE thinking, forgetting that much of what BMW had to engineer goes away with an EV drivetrain that becomes common among many different vehicles. Then all they have to do is place top hats of different vehicles on that platform. So much more efficient and cost saving. BMW is just behind in EV technology which has him freaking out, as Tesla is set to outsell them for 4th quarter and all of 2019 and beyond.

Buutvrij

This man just made BMW’s grave a few feet deeper. I have no problem with that, if you take in account that the german carindustry is killing us softly over here with their dieselfumes. A lot of european idiots, surrounding me are driving that crap. Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, it’s awfull.. They buy a diesel just to get groceries.

rey

What do you think the guys gotta do or say when he sees the Mod 3 taking his best customers ,in the USA the buyers of his bread and butter the 3 series and the soon to be released Mod Y that people are eagerly awaiting that reservations are going to be in the millions? Can’t blame the guy , HE WILL NEED A SHRINK if you ask me.

ffbj

Really. As a sower thinker, as opposed to those who don’t think anything whatsoever, at least anything that makes any sense, or contains any element of logic in in it, I think, that, you, are, Wrong! I’m a slow typist too.
Actually your comment contains numerous mistakes, falsehoods, a misnomer, and an incorrect conclusion.
Congratulations. You did all that in just a few short sentences.

Else

Good, I wish all their board members thought like that, that would keep them years behind

Speculawyer

“he contends EV costs will “never” get to a level commensurate with the internal combustion engine”

Even at it’s current expensive price, the Tesla Model 3 is cheaper than many BMWs.

And for the consumer, it costs pennies per mile to fuel. I do think EVs will always cost a little more than ICE cars…BUT IT IS WORTH IT because the cars are better and they are FAR CHEAPER TO FUEL.

Get Real

The Model 3’s TCO is not just cheaper then BMW, but it is also a superior vehicle then their non-innovative
LICE crap.

Brian

He calls EVs hype when they are three times more efficient then the diesels he is defending? I thinks his investors are getting nervous and this is FUD aimed at calming them.

Pushmi-Pullyu

I think his anti-EV FÜD is aimed squarely at the German government. We can expect an increasing roar of whining from the German auto makers as the deadline for zero-emissions vehicles approaches. Just like GM’s ultimately successful campaign to roll back CARB’s circa 1999-2000 ZEV mandate (as shown in “Who Killed the Electric Car?”), German auto makers are hoping to get their government to significantly roll back on the requirements for reduced emissions.

Major changes are hard in any industry. I can understand the resistance by legacy auto makers to make the move to making BEVs… but that doesn’t mean I think the emissions mandates should be lessened by a single gram! If we give them a few more years, they’ll just delay a few more years… and most of the world’s coral reefs are already dead.

William

First the coral reefs, then the tropical rain forests, and then the…

“In short, civilizations and planets don’t evolve separately from one another; they evolve interdependently, and the fate of our own civilization depends on how we use Earth’s resources”.

Adam Frank, is an American physicist, astronomer, and writer. His scientific research has focused on computational astrophysics with an emphasis on star formation and late stages of stellar evolution. Currently his work includes studies of exoplanet atmospheres and astrobiology.

Jonathan Carroll-Nellenback, a senior computational scientist at Rochester, Martina Alberti of the University of Washington, and Axel Kleidon of the Max Planck Institute for Biogeochemistry — addresses these questions from an “astrobiological” perspectiveive.

The book Light of the Stars: Alien Worlds and the Fate of the Earth.

Get Real

Yup, too big to fail in Germany.

What is next, bailouts for BMW and increasing protective tariffs on Tesla if these losers could have their way.

Brian

German regulators are in the pockets of their Auto industry. No fud needed to keep the government in line. It’s why a small University in Kentucky was used to bread the VW scandal.

jamcl3

If he thinks cost is the over riding issue, then maybe he should be selling Hyundai and not BMW? He is not distinguishing between purchase cost and total cost of ownership over time, where EVs are probably already cheaper. Maybe he has an outhouse at home instead of a bathroom with plumbing because it is cheaper? The comparisons go on forever. The young people will take over BMW if it survives, and Klaus Frölich will be forgotten along with his diesels. Or BMW will follow Kodak. We will see.

Speculawyer

Yep….it is that total cost of ownership that is the great equalizer. The lower cost of maintenance and fuel for an EV makes up for the up front higher cost.

Epicurus

“Projections from Morgan Stanley indicate that EV sales will surpass legacy vehicle sales by 2038, and the global fleet of EVs will number one billion by 2047 (many EV industry observers would call these predictions conservative).

“EVs are currently a money-loser for Big Auto, but Morgan Stanley expects the negative profit margins to peak in 2023, and turn positive by 2029.

“Once exponential growth gets rolling, things can happen at astounding speed. One water droplet in a football stadium doesn’t even dampen the Astroturf, but if the rate of precipitation doubles every minute, the stadium will be flooded in less than an hour.”

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/13/ev-exponential-growth-just-beginning/

(No BMW stock for me.)

Get Real

Morgan Stanley can kiss my, 2029 my ass!

Many of these legacy, laggard LICE oems will be bankrupt by 2029 if they don’t get off their ass and losers like this idiot Frohlick will be to blame as the customers speak truth to power and transition to compelling EVs like what Tesla builds.

Epicurus

I agree that the investment banks are way too conservative in their forecasts. Their solar forecasts have been too conservative for years.

Rolando

Wow what a U-turn from BMW … with the I3 and I8 they were leading the German-pack for some years but now totally lost steam, and are last now where Audi and Mercedes are introducing their EV’s. Their “I-brand” development team left in droves and was hired from the competition.

The BMW owner family e.g. Stefan Quandt was extra meeting German chancellor Angela Merkel with 600,000 Euro election campaign donation to get the emission standards (reduction of NOx) watered-down during EU meetings 2 years ago. This lobbying seems to be much cheaper than building good EV’s.

Josh B.

I’m a big EV owner and fan. But he is right on both fronts. The most likely outcome is that the vast majority of folks won’t switch to EVs over the next 11-12 years ( though we can hope for and push for faster change).

He’s also right that diesels can lower CO2 emissions. My old BMW 328d got much better mileage and was more fun to drive than most hybrids (non PHEV). The issue is that a proper system for “clean” diesel costs $4,000 or so. VW flat out cheated, pretending they could meet emissions standards without installing the $4,000 system. In the process, they gave a bad name to all diesels, even the ones that didn’t cheat.

Get Real

More BS from a BMW fanboy.

JOSH B

Incorrect. Just data driven. Personally, I think that once you try a good EV, you don’t go back to ICE vehicles. Most folks, however, don’t test drive EVs. Sorry to drop inconvenient facts. For those interested in penetration data, NY makes public data on all it’s 12M registered vehicles. Just Google NY open data vehicle registrations.

arne-nl

You know, I long thought I was the only one willing to buy an EV because I am an incurable “EV fanboy”. However I see a lot of colleagues buying Teslas, I-Paces, I3’s. just like that. As if it were simply their next ICE car. No EV fanboyism there. Those that aren’t switching have a problematic situation with recharging (on street parking and too few public chargers).

The incentives help a lot, and it simply shows that if the price is right, and the charging infrastructure is there, people will buy EV’s sooner rather than later.

Will

Where’s the CEO to shut his mouth

Tom Harrison

The distinction between full autonomy and what’s available today is indeed a gulf. So we shouldn’t try, right? Hah!

I drove my Model 3 to Maine from Boston over the weekend. I used autopilot all of the way on the interstate, and much of the way on highways. I was surprised at how well it did on secondary roads with spotty markings. This was a five hour drive, made much safer and more pleasant.

None of this is an all-or-nothing game. I wish Tesla had more competition. Doesn’t look like it will come from the old school.

DonC
There is indeed a gulf separating Level 5 from Level 1-3. However, it’s not as if a few companies haven’t crossed that gulf. Waymo has full autonomy which its rolling out now. It seems ready. Cruise Automotive supposedly has full autonomy rolling out in 2019. We’ll have to wait and see on it but with Honda and Softbank investing billions it seems real. As for less capable autonomy, it’s not as if the legacy car companies can’t do Level 2 (which is AP). Audi can do it. Nissan with ProPilot can do it. MB with Drive Pilot can do it. In fact Waymo was dong it back in 2012. Heck, I have a friend using Comma on his Volt and even that “works”. The problem, which is why the companies haven’t rolled these systems faster, is that these systems are inherently unsafe. If the least safe part of the system is the human driver you can’t make a safe system by requiring the human driver, who you’ve conditioned to become disengaged, to instantly engage and become your fail safe. As we’ve seen with the deaths and accidents with AP, that’s nuts. The difference between AP and GM’s SuperCruise is that,… Read more »
Kdawg

Actual photo of Klaus Frölichcomment image