30 kWh 2016 Nissan LEAF Test Drive Review

OCT 20 2015 BY MARK KANE 74

All-electric Cars Range & Price (U.S.) Comparison (October 2015) – Tesla 90 Series For Model S Estimated

All-electric Cars Range & Price (U.S.) Comparison (October 2015) – Tesla 90 Series For Model S Estimated

2016 Nissan LEAF & CHAdeMO fast charger

2016 Nissan LEAF & CHAdeMO fast charger

Auto Express got its hands on the 2016 Nissan LEAF with the 30 kWh battery.

Auto Express notes that LEAF is now back on the top of the range chart (aside from Tesla) and that its ~25% improvement in range will increase its practicality. Overall, the review is rather rough.

The first knock is that you need to chose a higher trim to get 6 more kWh for more range, and that comes at a cost compared to the base 24 version. See detailed UK pricing here.

The difference between the base 24 kWh Visia trim and 30 kWh Acenta is about £3,700 (over $5,700) in the UK, although Acenta 24/30 kWh differs only by £1,600 (less than $2,500).

Ride quality was called generally smooth and quiet (very relaxing) with addictive instant low-speed acceleration, but the suspension was poor to cope with potholes due to its still heavy weight (23 kg / 51 lbs more weight for 30 kWh doesn’t change much).

“…This can’t be felt on the road, but the suspension still battles with the rigours of the lardy lithium-ion battery weighing the Leaf down.”

“as with many all-electric vehicles, the Nissan is prone to thumping into potholes”

The same 80 kW motor is a little to weak for higher speeds, according to Auto Express, but that applies to the previous 24 kWh version too. New is mainly the multimedia system and it’s seen as an improvement:

“That calmness is aided by an improved multimedia system – the only real change in this Leaf, save for a new shade of brown paint – which is altogether more intuitive and now includes DAB. It comes on Acenta specs and above from December.”

2016 Nissan LEAF

2016 Nissan LEAF

Cabin quality not high enough?

“Measured against a conventional hatch, though, the Leaf still falls short on cabin quality, while basics such as the lack of reach adjustment for the steering wheel make it feel cheap, too.”

Verdict for the 2016 LEAF 30 kWh is 3/5.

“It’s obvious that the 30kWh battery adds a useful, anxiety-reducing dose of extra mileage to the Leaf, but whether it’ll convert the electric sceptic is debatable. That’s because by every other measure the Leaf remains fairly average, with a bland driving experience and a slightly insipid cabin. It’s a little jarring that the denser battery is available only on mid-spec Acenta cars and up, too, effectively making the actual cost of a bigger range quite substantial.”

Source: Auto Express

Categories: Nissan, Test Drives

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74 Comments on "30 kWh 2016 Nissan LEAF Test Drive Review"

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So, it still drives like a turtle and handles like an overweight POS?

Last time I checked, I could still beat any ICE car from the stop line, had I so desired.

As to handling… let’s say that after driving 7-10 ICE cars from almost the same number of makers over >25 years, I had never had nearly as good a handling/driving experience as with a 2012 Leaf, not to mention the 2014 we’re currently driving.

I guess you live on a different planet, where up is down, etc. etc.

Yes, you and fellow LEAF owners must live in a different world.

Sorry to break it to you, take your LEAF to any track, it is just NOT true that it will beat most ICE in acceleration. Maybe in the first 10 feet.

Most ICE drivers aren’t really racing you at every light.

Defending its poor performance is the classic sign of LEAF owerners who overly indulge the lack of motivation to make LEAF better by Nissan.

How did they say it?

Oh yeah, never show a fool a work half-done. Someone just wrote about it, too.


I didn’t even put the “golf cart” canard in there, given that the performance of >90% of 1st-Gen EVs, Leaf included, already put that myth to rest.

But some people do seem to invent their own facts… “merging speed”, right.

Keep trying, in a few years you can change your talking point to “somersault speed while flipping off the bridge on a fool moon”, b/c that’s what ICE sedans will still beat the Leaf Gen 3 on 🙂

The funny part is that LEAF owners keep thinking their LEAF is superior while it is NOT.

Yes, keep quoting that article from inside EV. The problem is that LEAF is ranked near the bottom among all PEVs on the market today in terms of performance. Yes, near the bottom. So don’t try to quote the entire EV market as your way out, it is NOT.

Plenty of EVs are faster, Fiat 500e, Spark EV, i3, the new Volt, Tesla, old E-Rav4. But LEAF is just NOT one of them.

Should we revisit the Car and Driver comparison on EVs or should we revisit Inside EV’s own article on EV accelerations?

Blind devotion is usually one of the biggest issue of EV community.

This term “Blind” you are using – what does it mean?

Does it mean, perhaps, that you bloviate here about the Leaf, with scarcely any experience actually driving or even riding in one?

Because by the content of what you write, this seems to be the case 🙂

“Does it mean, perhaps, that you bloviate here about the Leaf, with scarcely any experience actually driving or even riding in one?”

I actually have driven it multiple times. It was on my purchase list until I found it to be too slow.

“Because by the content of what you write, this seems to be the case ”

That is often the case for LEAF owners who are usually transition from old beat up Econ Box or slow cars like Prius before their recently acquired LEAF.

Rarely anyone who praise the LEAF performance (not its smooth characterisitics, but real acceleration) comes from previous ownership experience with powerful ICE cars.

Yes, I drive another PEV and I have driven just about every PEV on the market since I live in California, the land of all PEV choices. I find LEAF to be very slow.

Now, should we review this article again and see where LEAF ranks? 🙂


Dang it, I wrote a long reply and it disappeared. Short of it, you are a sporty-car afficionado. An auto fashion victim. Sorry, I can’t help you. Most people on the planet, considering the expense of having a car (which is far higher outside the US, btw), see it first and foremost as a workhorse, and that’s what the Leaf was designed for, rather successfully. As I said in my 1st comment of this thread, I’d driven multiple cars over nearly 30 years. This includes anything from an old Renault 11, to brand new Mercury Sable and Renault Megane, to (just prior to the Leaf) a 2.7L v6 Hyundai Santa Fe. In my experience – yes, it is not your experience, but that doesn’t mean I’m “blind”, nor lying – none of them comes close to the Leaf, both in acceleration (not just from the line, but whenever you actually need it, and *how* you need it), and surely in terms of overall driving experience. Please stop trying to impose your sports-car bias upon the real world. People like the Leaf b/c it’s a likeable car, including its performance. It’s not perfect (you can look up the article I linked… Read more »

“I’d driven multiple cars over nearly 30 years. This includes anything from an old Renault 11, to brand new Mercury Sable and Renault Megane, to (just prior to the Leaf) a 2.7L v6 Hyundai Santa Fe. ”

I have rested my cases then.

None of them have a great acceleration relative to a modern midsize family sedan with V-6 engines.

So, why do you continue to defend the fact? LEAF’s acceleration times are clearly stated for everyone to see and verify.

The fact remains that with this new 30kWh improvement, Nissan chooses to leave the performance alone. If you love it, then great. I don’t love it, that is why I posted my comment. It was really you who “trolled” to jump into the discussion by defending something that is proven wrong by facts.

Leaf performance is to be laughed at, but more substantial is their crappy “fast charging”. Their “free to take fast charge spot while slow charging” program is making others (mainly me) get very upset!


The Tesla fanboys had a hard day today and now they must run around and bash down the worlds best selling car.

Me? Tesla fan boys?

LOL. I am the last person anyone would call a Tesla fan boy.

Yes, I love the idea of Model 3 and Model S. But totally hate the Model X. I love the Tesla business model but hate its arrogance and all its die hard fan base for defending Tesla blindly. I love how Tesla understands about making EV successful and holding up the EV flag ship for the entire community. Does that make me a Tesla fan boy? I guess you think so.

The Leaf actually performs very well at low speeds, and let’s face it, that is where it counts the most. Also the Leaf has near instantaneous response (something I wish my Gen-1 Volt had…)

Gen 1 Volt is slow off the line too, but it will over take LEAF right around 40-45mph mark, repeatly!

Both are slow in my mind.

My LEAF is an appliance that gets me to work and back. I don’t give a rat’s ass about performance. That’s not what the car’s for.

If you are concerned about how the LEAF handles, Car and Driver put some super sticky tires on a LEAF and got it up to 0.98g on the skidpad.

Sure, it is appliance and you don’t care.

That is exactly what sells Prius as well. But don’t defend the fact that it is slow. Let us admit and move on.

Now, as far as handling go, yes, putting on extreme sticky tires as C/D did will improve skip pad, but it doesn’t make it handle better. Skip pad is not handling. Should we revist what C/D says about LEAF handling from that article again?

Now, why do we have to accept the LEAF for its poor performance? Why can’t Nissan do better? Nissan suppose to have some performance in its cars and LEAF certainly doesn’t show that.

I don’t tolerate substandard EVs with poor performances. You do apparently. That is okay.

The Leaf drives and handles like a family car. You seem to like to compare it to a sports car, which it is not intended to be.

LEAF = Leading Environmentally friendly, Affordable Family car.

Take any family V-6 sedan in the $20K to $30K range, it will blow away the LEAF in 0-60mph, 40-60mph merging speed or almost all of them will beat the LEAF in 0-30mph as well.

When driven like a performance car, yes. Any V6 will beat the Leaf. I am not disagreeing with you. But that’s not how a family car is driven by 99% of owners. The intrigue of the Leaf is how effortlessly max power is achieved, not so much that max power is all that great. Afterall, it does have a 107HP motor in it. By today’s standards, that’s pretty weak. But at the same time, most people never push their V6’s to produce more than 100HP anyway. And 107HP is perfectly fine for any sane driver to merge very safely on all but the most aggressive highways. I can’t speak for SoCal. I’ve never driven a Leaf there, but I have driven an ICE – the highway situation is very different from the vast majority of the country. I’ve driven cross-country twice, through 42 states, and really there is no place outside of a few small pockets where 107HP isn’t EXCESSIVE power for safe driving.


I’d say the leaf has something pretty much no sports car has, comfortable city driving which is a great deal more important. I drive my car every day in the city, excessive acceleration would be a complete pain why do you think there is a switch that let’s you turn the acceleration down on a tesla? And why is the slower mode the default? Melbourne now has 40 km/h limits in town and has always had these in front of schools, try driving through a 40 km/h zone in a V8 and you’ll soon see the advantage of an EV.

“The intrigue of the Leaf is how effortlessly max power is achieved, not so much that max power is all that great. ”

Sure, nobody is complaining about it. That wasn’t my point. My point was that it lacks power for an EV powertrain. It could have done better, in fact, WAY BETTER! But somehow LEAF fans always manage to accept the LEAF performance as adequate or jump to its defense as soon as a critic presented the point.

Maybe they should ask themselves, why can’t LEAF do better? Why can’t it have better acceleration time than a slow Prius!?!

@MMF, I see you are moving the goal-posts, so here’s a reminder of what your point really is, that got us all responding.

Ladies and Gentlemen, ModernMarvelFan’s point:

“So, it still drives like a turtle and handles like an overweight POS?”

That’s it. One sentence. None of the nuance you are now trying to inject into it. And certainly none of the pretend “not complaining”.

Trolling pure and simple. Yes, you sure got a response, what are you complaining about now?

That Nissan is not improving performance? Last time I checked, what Leaf drivers cared about most – range, charge rates, space – has all been improved upon.

Range has improved 50% in 5 years. Find me an ICE car that improved its top performance metric at this rate.

And please stop trolling. Discuss in good faith and without name-calling, or bid farewell. Thank you.

Nobody is moving the goal post so don’t try to make it so.

Yes, it started with that is slow as turtle and it ends as it is as slow as a turtle.

If you and all the LEAF fans accept it then why are you defending it? The entire point of you defending is trying to say that it is not slow.

Aaron at least admit it is slow and he doesn’t care about it for his use. If you had said the same thing, there wouldn’t be all that posts here. Instead, you are trying to defend that it is not slow which is just false.

Please don’t lecture me about name calling with your “troll calling” posts. You got no place to talk.

“If you and all the LEAF fans accept it then why are you defending it? The entire point of you defending is trying to say that it is not slow.” Absolutely false. I am a Leaf fan, although far from a fan boy (I like the car, but don’t love it). My point in defending it is NOT to say that it is “not slow” but to say that it accomplishes the goal Nissan set out to accomplish. That is to say, it is THE: Leading, Environmentally-friendly, Affordable, Family car (LEAF) That’s it. It is not a performance car. Trust me, I feel it every time I drive it. I still get the EV grin from 0-20 MPH. But then my heart sinks as the torque just dribbles down to nothing. Yes, it has enough power to safely drive my family around town. But it does NOT have the power, handling, and excitment of my old S2000. I long for those days, and look forward to a 200-mile sporty EV that I can actually afford. BTW, on that note, did you notice that one of GM’s goals for the Bolt was “driving excitement”? That certainly caught my eye in one… Read more »

I have no problem with everything you said here.

I just had problem with Assaf defending that LEAF isn’t slow. Sure it is acceptable for daily driving. Even a slower Smart car is acceptable so why can’t LEAF be also?

I think Nissan can easily do better and it should do better so it doesn’t add more fuel to “slow golf cart” image that i-MiEV does.

Now, on the Bolt. I sure hope so. So far, GM has managed to at least make their PEVs acceptable. GM doesn’t make many “too slow” cars in its entire lineup so it understands that it needs to be at least acceptable. SparkEV was a good try. Volt 1.0 is a bit slow (even with the faster sports mode mapping) and Volt2.0 is slightly better. So, hopefully Bolt would at least match i3’s performance. Knowing that Model 3 is coming, it better be close or else it would have to discount the heck out of it to move metals.

Re-reading your comment, I see that now. I had jumped to the conclusion that you were referring to any Leaf fans.

If you do not like the Leaf, than do not purchase one. Let the people who purchased it enjoy that car.

Seems a bit harsh.

Should be harsh! It is on the market for over 5 years now and it is still slow.

Tesla gets it. BMW gets it. Why can’t Nissan do it with this battery upgrade?

It chooses to “detune” the car around 2013 to make it slower…

I see Nissan as a reliable company building good quality, cheap cars that are aceptable in driving response.

BMW and Tesla building high class luxury cars, that are better on the track, faster of the line, more versatile (Rex or more range) but also more expensive.

Performance and luxury costs money. I have it rather cheap than fast, but that is in the eye of the observer. Nothing wrong here.

Spark EV, Fiat 500e are both faster and relatively cheaper.

Sure, they are smaller or they are compliance car. But Nissan could do better.

My 2012 LEAF is a nippy turtle catching napping ICE cars, but 10 secs to 100km/h is slow. I think a hybrid camry is faster. It can take off well, but corners on eco tyres are always an issue due to its weight. Tho I must admit, normally a Commodore / Falcon will need to load the transmission to get a jump on me, otherwise they pass me at 70 – 80km/h, which is above the speed limit. Wonder how mush petrol they would use and how long their transmissions would last if they did that every lights.

I feel that the Leaf performs just fine for what it was designed to do. It is not designed for high performance. It is designed to get you from one place to another. If you want something that fits into the hot hatch category, obviously you need to look elsewhere.

It is slower than a Prius.

That is my complain. I am not asking it to be Tesla level.

I would have been happy with Spark EV level of performance on the LEAF. Even Fiat 500e level would have been good enough for it.

Is 0-60mph in sub 8seconds too much to ask for? Just about all midsize sedan today can do that.

Slower than a prius? Some prius 0-100km/h times:

Prius I: 13.x s
Prius II: 10.9 s
Prius III: 10.6 s

Leaf: 11.3 s

So the Leaf is 0.7s slower than a prius, that is hardly different.

Thank you very much for providing the FACTUAL number to show that LEAF is slower than the current generation of Prius.

I’ve driven 34500 miles on leased 2012 Leaf without any problems. The lease ends in December and will lease a 2016 Leaf for 3 years, all your hot air is just that hot air.

Yes, and I know how LEAF can’t handle the hot temperature and apparently its owners can’t handle hot air.

I guess my point is that there are a lot more options out there now to choose from. You can easily get something else that you enjoy. Sure the Leaf can improve, but so can every other car on the market. I think your time would be better spent praising the cars that you enjoy and you feel are heading in the right direction instead of bashing something that is basically not for you.

LEAF is basically the ONLY choice for BEV buyers outside compliance states.

Which BEVs are faster or similar priced outside compliance states that are faster?

So, yes, Nissan should and can do better.

34K is too much for this car. Almost the same as the Bolt with only half the range…I expect some serious discounting after 6 months or so. Otherwise….way to go Nissan.

+ 100k

So where can you buy the Bolt? I’d rather have the 500 mile Audi for $20k when we are still in imaginary land.

Go buy a Bolt then.

Yes, the Bolt is absolutely worth waiting for…. double the range at about the same price as the 30kw stopgap LEAF. Not to mention better battery temperature management promoting longer battery life.

Too little, too late, Nissan…..

The Bolt is ultra limited quantity vaporware product not available in Europe and Japan.

Vaporware is something that remains in the idea stage, like the Model 3 at this point. The Bolt is far beyond that stage. Whether or not it will be sold in Europe or Japan is of little concern to American buyers like me. Closed minds, closed markets….a missed opportunity for their peoples.

Does anybody know why the 30 kWh battery is not cause effort to swap on the 2013 to 2015 models?

I’ve read mention of the hardware inside the car itself; the older models cannot communicate with the 30-KWh battery whose internal arrangement is different.

My guess: right now Nissan has zero incentive to make available even a single 30 KWh battery for replacement – they want them all inside new cars.

In 2-3 years after a Gen 2 launch, they will start having incentive in the opposite direction (maintaining only a single Gen 1 battery version, keeping used Gen 1 values from collapsing, at least the most recent 2014-2017 ones, etc.).

At that point, they will probably offer ways to make the two compatible, or at least cooperate with aftermarket vendors offering the same.

In short: patience…

That chart is NOT correct. You cannot get the 30KWH version of the LEAF for the less than $30K base price.

Read it again. It clearly states after US tax credit.

Oh yeah, the CABIN.

Because this is, without question, the top consideration for anyone considering a 107-mile Leaf. The cabin. That’s why they harp on it.

I will never make it as an auto journalist. I just cannot get my mind into the proper mindset 🙂

I agree with them actually – the cabin is where you spend 100% of your time in this car, and the Leaf leaves something to be desired. The Focus EV has a way nicer interior, and I’ve heard people respond really positively to this. It may not matter to early adopters who just want a good EV powertrain, but these kinds of things get more and more important as EVs try to appeal to the mass market.

Our top issue with the Leaf (aside from range, which well, it is what it is), is visibility to the corners, i.e. diagonally left and right. It has a substantial blind spot there.

Cabin issues pale by comparison, simply because of the implications. And cabin-wise, it is rather spacious vs. its external dimensions.

But for some reason, safety concerns never make it to the list of top priorities for auto journalists.

“But for some reason, safety concerns never make it to the list of top priorities for auto journalists.”

Yes, let us make safety a top choice. How about addressing the 4 star safety rating in NHTSA test or the “poor” performance in the IIHS’s small overlap frontal crash rating?

Are you going to defend LEAF on that too?

The cheap interior of the Leaf a major reason why I leased a Focus Electric instead. The Focus interior feels great. I suspect an e-Golf feels very nice inside as well.

The Leaf feels very cheap inside. Not much illumination, no lights on the vanity mirrors. Even in SL trim a 2015 Leaf feels like a cheap economy car.

Love my 2013 Leaf. While 107 miles isn’t what many people were hoping for (that comes for MY2017), it does make certain trips do-able without charging, like Rocklin to Truckee, for example. Until EV range on sub-$100,000 cars improves, the lack of DCQC charging along the I-80 mountain corridor makes travel extremely inconvenient.

Not for long — the 200 mile Bolt is due out in the latter part of next year.

All the discussion is on speed, none about fast charging. If new Leaf is still charging like old leaf where DCFC sometimes charge 2kW rate, it’s cr*p! Since they didn’t put thermal management, I suspect it’s still infuriatingly slow to “fast charge”.

It will be even slower now since the battery just got larger… 🙂

The charge time from LBW to 80% is largely unchanged in the 30kWh models at 30 minutes.

Larger battery means it can maintain 40kW charge rate for longer and the tapering off of charge isn’t as steep.


If Leaf can maintain 40kW to 80% SoC, I wouldn’t complain as much. Problem is, many (all?) Leaf drops to less than 18kW even at 60% SoC! It seems to begin to drop after 5 minutes regardless of SoC, then keep dropping.

Then there’s whole “no charge to block fast charging spot while charging slower than L2”

Lack of liquid cooling would do that since it will cut back power to save battery.

Mark, good article. I appreciate getting different points of view, even when that point of view isn’t all sunshine and rainbows.

Wow that Marvel guy is annoying, huh?

Yup he just doesn’t get it. I have had some very fast BMW’s. 132mph trap speed is faster than a 458, or ZR1, Z06, Hellcat, P90D, etc. 0-60 in 3 seconds flat with soft 2nd gear launches even. Hundreds of quarter mile time slips to prove it. I got tired of not being able to find cars fast enough to run against while driving around. So I have a good perspective of what a performance car is. I have had my share of road course tracks, also. I also have the perspective of driving a 2012 LEAF, 2014 Focus, and 2015 BMW i3. The Focus is the most luxurious, the BMW is the quickest, but the LEAF beats the other 2 cars in significant categories: Much more rear trunk space than either the Focus or i3 Compared to the Focus, much less torgue steer. Compared to the i3, 70mph cruising on the FWY is effortless and stable, the i3 is very twitchy, and darty. Much quieter and smoother than the i3 on rough roads. Compared to either the i3 and especially the Focus, the LEAF has instantaneous throttle response in the 0-30mph range. So yes, while a ICE can rev,… Read more »

If I’m a judge of “EV tank”:

BMW i3, you’re nice, but you cost too much. Can we negotiate down to $15K? No? For that reason, I’m out.

Ford Focus, you’re dog slow and you have odd shaped trunk with big step, and no DCFC. For those reasons, I’m out.

Leaf, you’re slow, and your DCFC is not really QC, more like 1/3 QC when it’s working. And your “no charge to take up fast charge spot while charging slower than L2” is destroying the reputation for all EV. For those reasons, I BANISH YOU! U SUCK! GET OUT OF MY SHOW!

sparkev, you are really annoying.

Kaleb, at least my posts aren’t wasting 30 minutes of time waiting for some slow charging Leaf taking up a fast charge spot. I plan to publicize crappy Leaf DC slow charging as much as possible, at least until they remove free DCFC or they restrict free charging to their dealers only so that crappy Leaf charging don’t affect other EV.

I went to Bunnin Chevy in Culver City to contemplate purchasing a Spark EV. Test drove it and realized how good the LEAF is. The spark interior, door panels, and trim are the cheapest quality imaginable. The torque steer is 10x that of a LEAF. The ride is choppy, and freeway stability is darty compared to the rock steady steering behavior of the LEAF at 80mph. The 0-30mph did not feel much more powerful than the LEAF, the 30mph+ was more. I ended up wanting to give the saleman a ride so he could see how much more superior even my LEAF was than that brand new Spark.
The LEAF is almost always at 80% by 30 minutes. I don’t know why a Spark driver is complaining so much with a SAE combo plug. Most of the chargers around here have a separate dedicated Chademo charger anyways. Well I guess there are less combo chargers around to begin with. So around here, the LEAF has the superior available charging locations also.

If Leaf drivers would disconnect at 80%, even if it’s charging at 10kW, I wouldn’t be so upset. But they don’t. They sometimes plug it in when it already has 85%, then hog the fast charge spot while charging at 2kW. Meanwhile everyone else’s waiting, including other Leaf.

SparkEV charges far quicker, even at high SoC%, and I suspect other thermal managed EV charge just as quick. Leaf is crap when it comes to fast charging.

Other Leaf, i3, eGolf drivers who are aware also complain; I just happen to have SparkEV instead of Leaf and post here.


As for your comparison to SparkEV, remember, it’s $16,000 whereas Leaf SV/SL that has fast charge is $26,000. If you have $10,000 to burn for slower car but fancy interior, go ahead and burn it.

Torque steer on SparkEV is not any more than Leaf if you limit the acceleration to that of Leaf.

2015 SparkEV does 0-60 mph in 7.2 sec, Leaf does in 10 (9.8 to 10.2), almost 3 seconds slower. SparkEV has 133 horsepower vs Leaf’s 107, but Leaf is heavier. What I did was to limit the power to ~70kW during acceleration, and there was virtually no torque steer.

As for feeling not as quick, it’s subjective, of course. 2014 SparkEV is about 0.3 sec quicker than Leaf in 0-30, 2015 SparkEV that weights less would be even quicker (0.5 sec?). If you want to discount a car that’s 3 second quicker as merely “more”, well, P90DL that’s 3 seconds quicker than Camaro is merely “more”, too. Yes, not apples to apples, but 3 seconds is HUGE difference.

and you are stupid.

Lets face it.we went nuts on this post.!