Consumer Reports Still Not Fully Impressed By Tesla Model 3

AUG 2 2018 BY DOMENICK YONEY 154

Concerns seem pretty minor, though.

The Tesla Model 3 has been reviewed by any number of publications since it debuted last year and the torrent of accolades that have been poured out in that time that may have washed away some of the more critical voices out there. Consumer Reports, which purchased their own example of the mid-sized sedan and have already issued an initial video review, has not allowed the praise from others to stop them from raising some quibbles and publishing its full review with the somewhat disparaging subtitle “Fully electric but not fully baked.

This newly published review, it has to be said, seems to be a warmed-over version of that initial take. In print form, it starts with the same criticisms as its original video (embedded below) — they knock the suspension, saying it’s “overly stiff”, call the rear seat uncomfortable, and repeat that the driver controls, located on that single screen mounted to the dash, are distracting.” They also bring up the braking issue they had, which Tesla fixed with an over-the-air (OTA) update.

Those issues aside, they appear to really like it, repeating many of the positives they noted in their original review. They say the steering is precise, and it handles like it’s glued to the road. The one piece of new information we can see from its extended time with the car is their attempts to test the range. They say that while it is rated to achieve 310 miles on a charge, while “using Tesla’s higher regenerative braking mode” they managed to squeeze out a nice 350 miles.

One criticism from the original video not repeated here has to do with wind noise. This writer has read a few reports noting wind noise, as well as some seeing substantial improvement after a treatment from service technicians, so it’s possible they had this issue addresed. You can read their complete road test results here, but you’ll have to be a subscriber to do so.

Source: Consumer Reports

Categories: Tesla, Test Drives

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154 Comments on "Consumer Reports Still Not Fully Impressed By Tesla Model 3"

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Seven Electrics

I wonder if the brake issue would have ever have been fixed if not for CR. Kudos, CR!

TM3x2 Chris

Kudos Tesla for fixing the issue!

David H

Kudos everyone else for testing the brakes extensively in the first place.

Toast

Plenty of other automakers have had similar issues:
Toyota had an almost identical issue with the Prius in 2010. It, too was solved with a software update–but you had to take it to the dealership to get the update, and many people didn’t. There are still unsafe Prius’s on the road today because of that issue.
Chrysler had an issue with the ABS system in several models for years in the early 90’s, and refused to acknowledge the issue until they were hit with a class-action lawsuit.
Chevy accidentally shipped thousands Sonic’s without installing brake pads at all. Oops.

Kbm3

Why? For all of those that are doing 4-5 emergency stops back to back.

Huge demand for that.

nix

It is good CR found the very oddball ABS calibration error. I’m not sure there is much value though to consumers in bringing back up an issue that is already fixed.

David Green

I just wonder what other calibration was missed? Many customers are having trouble with the A/C calibration in hot weather, and might see the same issue in cold weather.

Pushmi-Pullyu

What A/C calibration trouble? I see you’re making up bull pucky again, Mr. Anti-Tesla Smear Campaigner.

MDEV

DAVID Green
Notorious Russian troll.

nix

David “green”,

I am certain you are Concerned!! Oh! So! Concerned!! about a lot of things that there is no actual evidence of any widespread problem, or any problem at all.

Concern Troll is Concerned. News at 11.

John

If we had bro1999 / KindaWeird on this response, we’ve have the entire super-positive team all here together. I wasn’t really expecting Tesla’s success today to keep them away for very long..

AnonyMouse

You’re a troll John.

John

Ok, I deserved that. I still think you’re labels are stupid, though. If you don’t mind, at least come up with something new and different. And for the record, I don’t think taking jabs once in a while is the same as constant negative trolling. If you ever read my comments, most are pretty much topic-related. But I never claimed to be perfect, either..

Have a good evening!

AnonyMouse
First off, it’s “your labels are stupid,” not “you’re labels are stupid.” Second off, you’re a freaking hypocrite. You think my labeling you a troll is stupid, and that I should come up with something new and different? Yet you have no problem with your fellow Tesla fanboyz’ “constant negative trolling” of David Green with the same old name calling and personal attacks in this thread and every single other thread that David comments on? John, you have never once chastised your fellow Tesla fanboyz for their daily, nonstop name calling and personal attacks on anyone who dares to criticize Tesla or Elon. You’ve never once called out your fellow Tesla fanboyz for their bad behavior and told them knock it off or cut it off. That makes you a hypocrite. You and you fellow fanboyz don’t want dialog, you just want drive away from this website anyone who doesn’t have a glowing comment or unbridled praise for Tesla. If you and your fellow Tesls fanboyz wanted dialog or civil conversation, you would have asked David Green for a link to back up his assertion that Model 3 “customers are having trouble with the A/C calibration in hot weather.” But… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu

You can’t have real dialogue, or honest discussion, with a Russian troll. Nor with someone who uses the same smear campaign tactics as a Russian troll, even if they’re just an unpaid “useful idiot”.

If you don’t get that, then you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

Ricardo

“you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.” That, right there is the problem. If we’re not 100% behind you, then we must be as bad as those Koch brothers. Well, I’m part of your problem you radical nut

Pushmi-Pullyu

If you can’t tell the difference between someone expressing an honest opinion — positive or negative — and a smear campaigner or concern troll, someone who isn’t interested in either truth or honest discussion… then that’s your problem, dude.

I certainly have no problem seeing the wide gulf between someone giving his honest opinion, and someone who is only posting to further a dishonest agenda.

Nix

Anon — I bet you are the guy who can’t tell the differences between the fake sponsored stories and infomercial stories on news. yahoo .com that are ads disguised as news stories, and the actual news stories.

John
Wow, where to start? First, good catch on the “you’re/your” smoking gun- I’m usually better than that- but not perfect and will likely make typos again in my life. Thank you for keeping an honest man honest. Second, I already owned my juvenile jab at those I already named, which isn’t typical of a “troll,” so I’m not sure what else you wanted? For your edification, the source of my jab was the fact that the anti-Telsa rhetoric has been ramping HARD, harder than normal these last few weeks. And its (oops, I mean “it’s”) been mainly perpetuated by the same handful of folks here. I’ve attempted multiple times to address and engage those individuals respectfully, stopping short of name-calling and personal attacks, but my attempts don’t resonate. So I took a little bit of a cheap shot. Again, guilty. While you may lump me in with the ultra-Pro Tesla crowd who do engage in the back-and-forth name calling, that would be inaccurate. While I haven’t been as active in policing the blindly pro Tesla crowd here, I have to admit I, myself, do have a little bias in their direction simply because 1) this IS an EV website, and… Read more »
antrik

LOL, grammar policing from the guy who doesn’t know how to spell “kinda” or “weird” 😛

David Hrivnak

What AC issue? Ours works just fine.

David Green

No surprise, the Model 3 is a good overall EV, but far from perfect.

Mark.ca

The good new is it doesn’t have to be. It just have to be better than the gassers.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

+1
Exactly

Kind a Wierd

And the other EVs in its price range – you know, Bolt, Volt, Leaf (but really, those are downmarket the M3, because the price of a normally-optioned M3 is much higher).

Mark.ca

You are being kind a weird right now. I think the general public has spoken as desirable evs are concerned. Bolt sales soon to go under 1k unfortunately. What do you think a similarly priced TM3 will do to Leaf and Bolt sales? Will they get 1k per month combined without heavy incentives? Even if the TM3 base is $10k over the other 2 it will still flatten their sales numbers.

Ricardo

So the EV market is a zero sum game. YYaaayy, good for us, Model 3 is killing all other EVs. You must be proud. In a year or two, Nissan Leaf 0 sales. Great

Pushmi-Pullyu

It’s called “competition”. Perhaps you’ve heard of that? It’s how the market works. If you don’t like competition, then by all means move to N. Korea.

That said, I don’t think Bolt EV sales will drop to only 1k per month. Not everyone is going to want a Model 3, or even want any Tesla car.

But Tesla “raising the ante” on what an EV should be, by making more competitive cars, is good for the EV market. It will force the other EV makers to make better EVs, so they can compete. That’s why a competitive market works so well.

#economics101

2015S90D

@Ricardo, Model 3 outsold the rest of the premium midsize segment combined in the US in July. So your comment is of sufficient idiocy that only a fellow concern troll would be able to like it.

Mark.ca

Ricardo, like it or not (i sure don’t) the ev market is just not big enough to have subpar ev. You can’t expect the general public to compromise on range or looks and price. I do it and have no regrets but everyone around don’t and are not planning to… and I’m in CA, a state were residents supposedly support evs. Tesla made a car that peope want to drive, not a green car, a car.Perod…..is that simple.

David Hrivnak

It seems like the Model 3 is killing ICE cars far more than EVs. EV sales up 50% but Camry, Prius, BMW are all down some 20%

ROFLOL

GM products promoting Bro1999 calls himself Kind a Wierd these days? Well, we have been calling him that all along! ROFLOL!

bro1999

IEVs staff can confirm I’m not “Kindaweird” or whoever you claim me to be. What’s not weird is the continued trolling of the comments section by the TSLA fanboi regulars.

Bro and Kind a Wierd have different IP addresses.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

lol, I can do that as well. Matter of fact, I can have a diff IP everyday from diff countries…….
I settled on one place because the dude (dudette?) hasn’t shut down that port and has high bandwidth.
😛

antrik

Just because they are both trolls doesn’t mean they are the same person…

John M

Yeah, but woudn’t it be nice if it had better controls for AC and other stuff, I mean, it cannot be that expensive to put some damn buttons on the thing.

antrik

While I’m a fan of physical controls personally, it’s a fact that the extra wiring, controllers etc. do add somewhat significant costs in development, manufacturing, and service. Considering that it’s a matter of preference, going for the cheaper, simpler, more flexible option is not necessarily a bad thing.

David Hrivnak

After driving the Model 3 several months I find the single screen to be far superior to the 82 buttons, knobs and screen found in the Volt. I prefer to never go back.

Taylor Marks

From a hardware perspective, I wish it were bigger and maybe less sporty. But that’s just the class it’s in – it was meant to be a BMW 3-series competitor. So that’s just taste – can’t knock them for it.

From a software perspective, anything that’s less than perfect can be perfected via OTA updates 🙂

antrik

Bigger and less sportive? Sounds like Model S 😉

David Hrivnak

It may not be perfect but I have yet to see any car come close in overall features and performance.

2xTesla

Hmm based on their criticisms (Stiff suspension, uncomfortable back seat, and wind noise) it sounds like they have a very early production car.

Doggydogworld

And since CR buys their cars there’s no easy way to incorporate some of Tesla’s noon-OTA changes in their reviews.

nix

They do have a very early production car. It is about 6 months old now.

The rear seat has been redesigned since then, and the suspension has apparently been re-tuned, based on some people’s butt-o-meters (I’ve not see an official confirmation on the suspension).

TOM

We do have a very early production Model 3 and the suspensions has been changed. We actually asked for the updated version to be installed, which Tesla did free of charge. The ride quality is fine ever since (before it was really bad, especially for those 2nd row passengers). No wind noise on our car. Back seats are stiff, and I recently compared it with a later production unit and the seats are better now for sure. All these CR issues are non-issues with current production.

David Green

Agree, the current Model 3 is hugely improved.. sad they took out the alcantara headlining, though, that new material looks and feels much cheaper. I get to drive a 3P this weekend, excited…

MDEV

Green the elections are coming time to move to Facebook

Nozuka

Hey Elon, is this you? 😉

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

I think that’s Tom from CR………lol

nix

Thanks for the info Tom. Good to know.

David Green

Man, exactly my complaints when I first drove, and rode in Model 3, they missed the entry system though, and the lack of heated seat controls for back seat passengers which is a really cheapie miss that no other carmaker at any price to my knowledge has missed..

Pushmi-Pullyu

I wonder just how many falsehoods are in that FUD blast from one of our resident anti-Tesla smear campaigners. Why would someone who loathes Tesla that much take a test drive?

MDEV

Did you drive the Model 3 or the Volga in Moscow.

Sharpe

You drove Model 3 sitting on back seat? Non-trivial approach indeed.

Michael Berger

Continuous improvement does that.

Pushmi-Pullyu

As I recall, it was only a few weeks ago that Tesla changed the back seat design, so this isn’t necessarily that early a production unit. The Model 3 still has a somewhat “sporty” suspension, even after that was softened somewhat, so I can certainly see some reviewers might call that “stiff”.

2xTesla

No, it was changed back in Feb.

Pushmi-Pullyu

What was? The new seats went into production in May.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-gets-new-seats-plus-everything-else-we-know/

Lawrence

May was only a few weeks ago?

MTN Ranger

Seats were redesigned around the VIN 14xxx mark in late April production. I have 142xx and have the new seats.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Oh, for heaven’s sake! They should rename their rag Curmudgeon Reports. It seems everyone loves Tesla cars… except Consumer Reports. What a bunch of wet blankets! And that after their first review of the Model S rated so high it “broke their ratings system”!

I wonder if CR’s editors are embarrassed over their initial review of the Model S being so enthusiastic, and that is why ever since they’ve bent over backwards to find bad things to say about Tesla’s cars.

But really, who cares? Even CR’s own annual survey shows that Tesla is tops in customer satisfaction. I guess CR just chooses to ignore why people love their Tesla cars so much! Well, they’ve tried to ignore it ever since that first “Best car we ever reviewed” article on the Model S, anyway.

So far as I’m concerned, what looks like CR’s deliberate attempts to deny Tesla’s cars the ratings they deserve, reflects badly on CR — and not on Tesla’s cars!

Go Tesla! Illegitimi non carborundum.

TomArt

I don’t know. I would have to renew my subscription and read the article. Are they comparing it to other current models in the range? Is/was the backseat worse than the seat in a 335i or 525i? In an A4?

Regardless, I’m glad that they said those things, because apparently, all of their concerns have been fixed: ABS calibration fixed, noise lowered, comfier seats and suspension. Win, win, win, win, win situation, I’d say.

nix

here is what somebody 6 foot 4 looks like sitting in the back seat of a BMW 3-Series:

https://youtu.be/Hi5JkoiI5W8?t=47

And here is someone 6 foot 7 in the TM3:

https://youtu.be/TmD0AkVoYU0?t=275

Not much thigh support for long trips in the back seat of ANY mid-size sedan unless you are short. That’s what CUV’s/SUV’s are for. But both cars have enough room for people who are in the 99th percentile of tallest folks in the US. The videos speak for themselves as to which appears to have more space for tall people of the two.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Do you honestly think Tesla would not have fixed the ABS calibration issue if CR had not written an article just to complain about the delay in fixing a problem that Tesla already had on its “to-do” list?

It’s possible that Tesla fixed it a few days or a very few weeks sooner because of CR’s bad publicity about that, but it’s not reasonable to think that it wouldn’t have been fixed at all!

TomArt

It would have been fixed, once it had been found. But, who measures braking distance? Tesla didn’t have that problem in their test cars. If/when would have the problem been found?

Windbourne

Actually, CR has been pretty good and fair with tesla. Even this review does not sound that horrible.

2xTesla

They’ve always been good at being the most objective. It like sports and refs I guess, the fanatics are never happy about any calls against their team.

antrik

Objective or not, just rehashing the issues they had with their early production model, instead of testing a current one, seems like a cheap attention grab…

Pushmi-Pullyu

I take it you don’t know about the time that CR gave the 2015 model year of the Model S a “poor” rating despite their breakdown ratings for the car having nothing worse than one single “fair” rating, and a majority of “excellent” ratings.

Hard to see how anyone could justify such obvious and unquestionable negative bias. See for yourself:

comment image

MTN Ranger

CR rates Model S and X high on their evaluation and performance reviews. The reliability ratings are separate and gathered from their subscribers. Sometimes the results are a bit weird on cars that don’t change from model year to year, but sometimes have big swings in reliability. Possibly statistical issues (not enough user data) or production/parts issues, etc.

SolarEnergyConsultant

I take all Consumer Reports with a grain of salt, after all they receive a majority of their financial support from the Ford Foundation.

Source: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/about-us/our-partners/philanthropic-partners/index.htm

TomN

The Tesla Model 3 review is actually reasonably positive.

But, in general, Consumer Reports has really been out of touch with modern cars for a while (maybe they are catering to their primary audience, which is a bunch of old fogies like me). A few years ago they had this column of the most fuel efficient cars on the market. I looked, eager to see how the hybrids blow all the other cars away, but there wasn’t a single hybrid mentioned! All the cars had MPG in the 30s.

What?

It turns out that they didn’t consider a hybrid a ‘normal’ car. You fill it with gas at the gas station and drive it like any other gasoline car, but not to them. They are apparently some kind of weird car like things that need to be talked about in a separate section, away from ‘real’ cars.

I cancelled CU on the spot. I’ve since restarted, but have been leery of their car reviews ever since.

PapaSlabes

I have a really hard time understanding the comment about the center display being distracting. I’ve had the car for just over two months now and it is anything but distracting. A quick glance tells you all of the important stuff you need, and the beautiful big navigation screen provides a clear view of the journey. Things you do regularly can be controlled by the scroll wheels, by voice, or are automatic, and the few other things you might want to do while driving (e.g. adjust the AC), are simple and quick with the touch screen. How that is distracting, when a dashboard full of buttons and knobs and gauges and switches isn’t, sounds more like ‘that’s not what I’m used to’.

MikeG

When the controls are not on the center display, they can be operated by feel without taking your eyes off the road. Not so much with a touch-screen display. I wouldn’t want to adjust the mirrors or the cruise control speed through a touch screen.

Kosh

in 42 years of driving, I have NEVER needed to re-adjust my mirrors while driving. Esp when most of my cars were manual…. LOL.

It doesn’t take much experience to know how to adjust them correctly while you are sitting there.

MikeG

YMMV. I like buttons and switches and wish the controls were more like a modern jet cockpit. And I can ONLY dream to one day reach your level of mirror-adjusting skillz.

Kosh

Practice, Practice, Practice… grasshopper!

Benjamin Novida

Really?!! Not even at night when headlights from cars from behind are blinding?

JJG

Most cars at that level have auto-dimming mirrors now.

Tummy

Many months ago, they changed it so the cruise control can be adjusted with the right steering wheel button. It’s a non issue now.

MTN Ranger

Sooo much better now using the steering wheel control than the tiny + – buttons on the screen.

Todd

Cruise Control is adjusted via the right thumbwheel on the steering wheel. Yes, you could do it from the screen, but you don’t have to.

Kosh

Same experience here Papa… and my wife LOVES the seats.

Then again, we are coming from an xB, which had it’s dash “in the center” anyways.

But we are completely thrilled with the car.

BayAreaMech

To be fair, by the very nature of not being what people are used to something becomes distracting. I agree, though, once learned Teslas are very easy to operate. Touchscreens remain a terrible idea for cars, though. Tesla’s touchscreens are the best in the business, but they still require too much focus on the screen to make simple adjustments that wouldn’t be necessary in a car with buttons. A touchscreen would be a dumb reason not to buy a car so going crazy over one is silly, but CR is right to point out the distraction aspect. Automakers need to make touchscreens better given that they aren’t going away.

Todd
I partially agree with this idea, but when this argument was going some month ago, I started consciously evaluating my previously unconscious habits. I wanted to evaluate whether or not I should go through with my model 3 res based on my current driving habits. When I adjusted the A/C, for example, I used buttons, but I still looked down. There’s an LCD on it that gives feedback on mode and fan speed, so I still needed to look to get feedback. Same with the radio (though less so, because there is also auditory feedback). Turning on the cruise? Look at the cluster to make sure the light went to green so I know it came on. This is not to say that the touchscreen doesn’t remove tactile feedback, nor that tactile feedback is not helpful. However, I believe that this effect is overstated, because we are comfortable with our habits. We believe that buttons keep us in tune with the road, but we still turn our attention to those buttons, and the visual monitors to which they are connected. I think that the 3 challenges our habits more than anything. I’ve had mine for less than a week, and… Read more »
BayAreaMech

The Model 3 makes me excited to see the established automakers start producing their BEVs. Tesla changed history and created a new paradigm for propulsion, but what we really need now is conventional automotive design thinking mixed with EV powertrains. I love that Tesla tries to push the envelope and think outside the box, but it results in “half-baked” end products like CR says. As a dyed in the wool car guy, I can’t get over the fact that Teslas are phenomenal EVs, but only mediocre cars. If you could combine 80% of Tesla’s drivetrain sophistication with the kind of vehicular excellence commonly found in ICEs today it would be a lot easier for the EV revolution to take off. I can’t wait to see what Porsche, Audi, and MB come out with. They won’t be nearly as interesting as a Tesla, but I’m sure they will be better cars.

Kind a Wierd

“If you could combine 80% of Tesla’s drivetrain sophistication with the kind of vehicular excellence commonly found in ICEs today it would be a lot easier for the EV revolution to take off. ”

That’s exactly what’s about to happen when real car manufacturers start selling EVs next year. Porsche, Audi, and MB’s entrance will be the real inflection point, as they are going to deliver cars that not only look great and handle great, but have the build quality and sale experience that only mature proprietors can bring. Bad (real bad) for Tesla, but great for the car industry. I fully expect every major car marque to offer pure EVs in every market and price point within the next ten years, and the complete death of ICE (except for niche markets like classics) within 20 (private car ownership might be dead within 30, as autonomous ride-sharing makes personal ownership obsolete).

BayAreaMech

I don’t agree that it’s bad for Tesla that the established automakers are going to turn out more polished and well thought-out EVs. Tesla definitely has the engineering muscle to design vehicles with similar levels of attention-to-detail. The problem is that currently Elon has the company more focused on media-grabbing fun/wacky/crazy features that eat up their limited resources. When the competition finally arrives, Tesla’s hand is going to be forced. They will have to start putting more of that engineering muscle into traditional vehicle engineering and they will become better cars as a result. In the long term, that will be better for Tesla and for car buyers.

Kind a Wierd

“Tesla definitely has the engineering muscle to design vehicles with similar levels of attention-to-detail.”

Tesla has 18k employees (the 30k number includes Solar City). VW has 650k spread over five brands. Ford has 200k. Fiat has 230k spread over several brands. MB has 300k. And of course, those are truly global companies with significant assets spread out around the world, which Tesla doesn’t. Tesla simply doesn’t have the engineering depth to compete with a traditional car manufacturer once that manufacturer turns its attention to EV as they are now doing.

This is yet another example of just how deceiving g Tesla’s market cap can be; just because Tesla is valued more than Ford or Fiat doesn’t mean it can do what those brands can, and that truth is painfully obvious in Tesla’s amateurish delivery of the M3. It would take Tesla a decade – at least – to grow the same assets and personnel that real car makers posses.

Timothy Hughbanks

And yet, with all that engineering muscle, VW had to fake it’s emission tests and Ford is bowing out of making sedans altogether. If it was just a matter of ‘trying’ why on earth did all those “real car makers” let Tesla gain a foothold? Why did Toyota screw around with hydrogen-powered cars – which pretty much anyone with half a brain could see was and is a loser?

Kind A Wierd

“why on earth did all those “real car makers” let Tesla gain a foothold? ”

Because they didn’t want to commit the significant resources necessary to create a market they weren’t sure would be sufficient to justify the investment? Then higher CAFE and Euro standards came along and essentially mandated that car makers include a significant mixture of EV in their portfolio, while at the same time providing tax credits to drive down the otherwise prohibitively expensive technology, and so the established marques began to invest in EV. I mean, why on earth did Apple let Rio gain a foothold in the MP3 player market and Blackberry the smartphone market? Now Rio and Blackberry are the dominant players in their respective markets, and Apple a distant second in both.

As to why Toyota continues to push hydrogen, your guess is as good as mine – unlike the rest of the industry, Toyota is literally the only marque that thinks hydrogen is the answer.

Timothy Hughbanks

Apple, Rio, and Blackberry – seriously? Apple didn’t make phones at all when Blackberry ‘got a foothold’ – your analogy is silly. (On the other hand, Digital Equipment was a “real computer maker” when Apple started and I’m not typing this on the descendent of a VAX computer.)

Kind A Wierd

Ok, you didn’t understand the analogy, but it was perfectly apt. Going by your apparent rules, here’s one that does: Why did Apple allow Google – through Android – to establish a “toehold” in the smartphone industry? Why did IBM allow Apple to establish a toehold? Why did Mercedes Benz allow Ford to gain a “toehold?” I mean, all of human business history is full of examples of established players allowing startups to intrude in their market. Why you’d even try to argue this point strains reason. And lets not forget that Tesla wasn’t the first car company to offer an EV – that would be GM and the EV1.

antrik

If you want to go pre-historic, EVs existed before GM.

G2

Face it; the LICE industry was (is) fat, complacent, and arrogant seeing their corrupt love-in with the pollution industry as more important than human health and financial well being. They have been goaded and mocked into the 21st century but truly deserve to fail because of their many sins.
No more govt bailouts for the LICE Industry.

Kind A Wierd

Ok? I don’t know what that has to do with this discussion, but ok?

antrik

How about this: why did Sony allow Rio and Apple to gain a foothold? Why did Nokia and Motorola allow Blackberry and Apple to gain a foothold?

In both cases, the first movers didn’t stay on top — but neither did the dinosaurs.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Lots more employees doesn’t indicate a company that can better make newer products. It indicates a company with far too much invested in making the old product.

If you think that isn’t true, then you need to read up on what happens during disruptive tech revolutions. See “The Innovator’s Dilemma”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma

G2

…and sunk cost thinking.

Kind A Wierd

“Lots more employees doesn’t indicate a company that can better make newer products. It indicates a company with far too much invested in making the old product.”

It MIGHT not indicate a company’s capability, but it does indicate its capacity. As to your second claim, you have absolutely no evidence – ZERO empirical evidence – that that is the case. It’s just your opinion, pulled out of thin air (or rather, air informed by your subjective world view).

The bottom line is more employees means more engineers, means more engineering resources, means great potential to innovate. To argue that the legacy makers CAN’T compete with Tesla – your claim, “CAN’T” – isn’t based on any quantifiable metric. What CAN be quantified is the amount of engineering capacity those marques have (as measured by the number of total employees), and that quantum is significant.

As for reading a Wikipedia link and treating it as a legitimate source of edification, that’s pretty much the hallmark of an uninformed mind.

G2

The bigger they are, the more the govt has to pay when they fail, as GM & Dodge/Chrysler found out.

Kind A Wierd

The total cost of the GM bailout was $11b. Tesla gets $5b/year in government subsidies.

antrik

Congratulations on accusing others of lacking evidence in one post, and spinning completely made up numbers in the next.

antrik

Number of employees is not number of engineers.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Yeah, once those other carriage makers put their own motorcars into production, Ford will have to give up those silly gadgets on the Model T like a steering wheel instead of a tiller, putting the motor under a metal “hood” at the front instead of mounted on the back axle, and using pneumatic, air-filled tires.

In the long term, going back to using converted buggies will be better for Ford and for horseless carriage buyers.
/s

Kind A Wierd

When competitive brands enter a market that was previously dominated by a monopolistic producer, does the monopoly-holder’s market share go up, or down? Mercedes Benz, the first car company in the wold, once had 100% market share. Do they still have 100% market share?

I mean, I don’t think you guys are this stupid. I really don’t. I do think you have some sort of weird, relatively benign psychological disorder by which you hitch your personal ego to that of a manufacturer or other personality. It’s mind boggling to witness.

antrik

While you have a psychological disorder by which you hitch your ego to bashing a manufacturer and its admirers.

John

You didn’t mention GM with the “real” car manufacturers. I’m curious, why did you buy a Bolt then?

Kind A Wierd

Ok, GM and its 180k employees, and Nissan’s 140k. And I don’t own a Bolt, Leaf, or any other EV, but I am definitely buying an Audi E-Tron Quattro and am eagerly counting down the days to September 17th when I can place my deposit for one.

F teo

We need EV batteries to be HALF the weight, half the cost and twice the range then, we will have the best dynamics that ICE vehicles cannot match. Some studies claim that will happen 2026. Cant wait.

G2

The LICE world will then be dancing to Tesla’s tune, which was the plan all along.
Glad you’re finally on board Bro.

Kind A Wierd

What’s with the progressive left’s fascination with puerile, immature name calling? “tRump,” “LICE,” etc? It’s an odd facet of your psychology, and I’m just curious as to what motivates it.

G2

Legacy Internal Combustion Engine (LICE) is a perfectly descriptive acronym for that industry. Does that bother you Bro?

Kind A Wierd

Not at all, it’s just most people use “ICE,” and adding “Legacy” to the acronym doesn’t really make any sense. Legacy to what or as opposed to what? No, it’s more likely just another chance to call some one or something a name, which seems to be the left’s favorite pastime.

Colin Fox

“No, it’s more likely just another chance to call some one or something a name, which seems to be the left’s favorite pastime.”

Seriously? The right OWN the whole childish name-calling thing. I’ve never seen such a collection of panty-waisted babies calling others names. The biggest hypocrites in the world are right wingers, projecting onto the left all their own infractions and failures.

antrik

The left? I think it was Trump who based his election campaign on puerile, immature name calling…

TomArt

The cars are not “half-baked”. The interiors are minimalist on purpose. Their design aesthetic is minimalist, and since Musk insists on autonomous vehicles, he sees no need to heavily invest in things that a driver would like to have. He even made the flippant comment about the Model Y might not even have a steering wheel.

I think what they meant about being “half-baked” was about the seats, suspension, wind noise, etc. In that respect, I agree with CR.

BayAreaMech
The interiors are minimalist because that makes them incredibly cheap and easy to build. Pure and simple. Even the Model S can’t compete with an entry-level C-Class when it comes to material quality and attention to detail. Having said that, I give Tesla a pass here. It is ridiculously hard to build cars and Tesla was smart not to get too crazy with details they couldn’t confidently assemble consistently. What I meant by “half-baked” was the thoughtfulness of the cars overall. Teslas lack basic features that you find in even economy cars these days. Things like ventilated seats, rear cup holders, sunroofs (in the case of the 3), fully adjustable front seats, sculpted back seats for comfort, under-seat space for feet, etc. Teslas also have the physically most ideal weight distribution of any car and yet none of them ride or handle in a way that is superior to the best competing ICEs. I give Tesla a lot of credit for what they have managed to achieve, but to ignore the flaws doesn’t give them the feedback they need to get better. Tesla has managed to excel up to this point because EVs have inherent advantages, but their vehicles aren’t… Read more »
Colin Fox
I will grant you that the missing cup holders in the rear of the model S annoys me (a model S owner – 2015 P85+). Ventilated seats I guess would be nice, but I’ve never had them in any other car I’ve had, so I don’t miss them. I don’t buy any of the rest of your complaints. I would infinitely prefer Teslas over any mercedes (at least the current models). I’ve driven a 2015 S550, 2 years younger than my car, and I wouldn’t say it was garbage, but its “quality” is way overblown. The emperor has no clothes. The car handled like a drunken hippo in the corners, the ride was not as nice as my car’s (the “adaptive suspension” didn’t have any noticeable effect), and holy crap the throttle response made it feel like I was towing a barge, especially when starting from a stop. The nav system was a joke, and voice interaction was positively ancient in comparison. And the auto-inflating side bolsters – wow, I can’t imagine a more annoying and useless gimmick. They were inflating at 5mph corners, like I’m some kind of ancient relic that needs help sitting up straight when corning at… Read more »
antrik

All the reviews I have seen attest the Model 3 much better handling than the vast majority of ICE competitors.

I don’t see how sunroofs etc. have anything to do with thoughtfulness. Some cars have them; some others don’t. Sure, if you look across all cars on the market, you will see a lot of features Teslas don’t have — but if you look at any individual one, you will see just as many features it lacks compared to Tesla (or other competitors).

Get Real

LMFAO at the notion that the Germans make better cars.

German cars are often known for their less then stellar reliability and they are absolutely notorious for EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE parts and servicing.

My Austrian friend (who lives in America) who has had German cars his entire life has finally sworn them off due to these outrageous repair and maintenance costs and he is a mechanic and does all his own work but is sick of paying 3 times the cost for parts compared to other cars.

BayAreaMech

It should be noted that Teslas are just as expensive to service as German cars and even less reliable…

Having said that, my comment had nothing to do with reliability. Vehicles that push the technology envelope will always have quality issues (Tesla included). “Better cars” means the overall substance of the vehicle. No Tesla drives as well, has the attention to detail, or the build quality of the best German cars. They can absolutely get there, but it’ll take competition. The Germans will come out with BEVs that are better cars and worse EVs than Teslas. Eventually hopefully we will converge on something exceptional.

Kind A Wierd

1. Provide data – not your opinion, empirical data – that German cars are “often known for their less than stellar reliability and they are absolutely notorious for (begins screaming) “EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE” (ends screaming) parts and servicing.”

2. Well, I guess if your single Austrian friend has decided not to patronize German marques, then all German marques produce terrible products.

antrik

I think you missed the essence of the CR review. If you go past the few specific complaints, which mostly seem to be attributable to their early production model, you will realise that in most other respects, it matches or outdoes other cars.

nix

It is like the mother in law you can never please.

Windbourne

BMW has ceramic brakes. It would be be nice to see Tesla offer the same on the MS/MX. Less pollution, and the ability to last the lifetime of the car.

nix

Short of track use, EV brake pads tend to last a long, long time if you let the motor do the regen braking.

acevolt
eferg

I’ve owned my Model 3 RWD for two weeks. You can’t judge the car by looking at photos, videos, or even taking a short test drive. You need to spend some time with the car to get over pre-conceived ideas of what various designs elements are supposed to be. The screen IMHO is a non-issue. Most settings are “set it & forget it”. I never have to touch the screen when driving. The screen is only a “distraction” if you insist on playing with settings that are best set up before you even place the car in Drive. NAV, phone, and music are voice activated. The steering wheel controls handle several functions, with more to come. And Elon has stated that over time, most controls will be voice activated.

MTN Ranger

Also, since so many settings (seats, mirrors, regen, steering, AC, etc) are tied to the personal profiles, you can customize everything to a particular person. So I have my settings and my wife has hers. I find much less time wasted in changing things versus previous cars.

The only thing I use the LCD for while driving is the HVAC (which may need a little tweeking) and radio (switching between inputs/stations, etc)

Bill Howland

Sounds like a pretty good review, overall. Congratulations for Tesla to make a sporty, seemingly fun to drive “pocket rocket”.
One thing I would say is a bit of an unfair comparison, is that Tesla doesn’t refer to themselves as Luxury Cars, and certainly not the ‘3’..

Regarding the Center Screen, from a distance it ‘seems’ like they’ve done a pretty good job. CR will elaborate, so they say, on things which could be improved, but I never had any problem with the screen as this is a ‘cost reduced’ vehicle and you can’t expect plenty of amenities – if they wish to complain about the price, please do that separately – not as a poor value to ‘other luxury cars’, since the ‘3’, and in fact, any Tesla, never claimed to be one.

Nix

Folks trying to make a big deal out of looking at the center console for the speed is sort of embarrassing. Mini owners have been doing just fine with a center console for half a century. Saying it is too hard for you is like saying you are a worse driver than your grandparents. LOL!!

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Kind A Wierd

Is it a “big” deal? No. Is it suboptimal? Absolutely, so why do it?

ROFLOL

Yo Bro1999, carpet bombing again? You really are Kind a Wierd, ROFLOL!

Jabeer

I assume because it allows Tesla to simplify the wiring and complexity in the dash. By consolidating all of the instruments to a single easy to install tablet or touch screen they can minimize production cost. Touch screens are pretty much ubiquitous in new cars and so they are maximizing its utility.

Nix

There certainly is an extraordinary amount of noise on the internet over something that is just “subobtimal”. Especially noise from people who clearly don’t own one, clearly aren’t looking at buying one, and even from many who clearly aren’t interested in green cars at all.

*shrug*

I think we can agree then that it is silly for people to bring it up over and over in stories that are completely unrelated to it in the future.

Kind A Wierd

I see you still haven’t learned what an “ad hominem” is.

And if the, “[people] who clearly aren’t interested in green cars at all,” is aimed at me (as part of your ad hominem), I guess I should stop planning on buying an E-tron Quattro the second it’s available, or stop riding my bike as much as practically possible, or use public transportation as much as practically possible?

antrik

And now the guy who called others “purile, juvenile” a few comments back complains about ad hominem…

antrik

Except many other reviewers don’t consider it suboptimal at all. Some in fact claim than its more in the line of sight than an instrument cluster behind the steering wheel…

Pushmi-Pullyu

And yet, some people say they can’t get used to a center-placed instrument panel, despite the fact that many different models of cars use that position. Sure, that’s a minority of people, but why doesn’t Tesla at least offer an optional HUD?

Kind A Wierd

I wouldn’t say “many different models of cars” use it – aside from the Mini, I can’t think of one. I’m sure there are others, but the vast, vast majority do not.

ffbj

…and that’s ok, because, I’m fast enough, smart enough, can drive far enough, and doggone it, people like me.
Model 3, daily affirmation.

Pfoley57

I see the need for a remedial English class for you..

SJC

It is NOT mid sized.
“Tesla Model 3 is a compact four-door sedan”
It is in the BMW 3 Mercedes C class category.

Tesla is obviously going by the EPA standard. The Model 3 is midsize while the others are compact.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39836&id=39134&id=39227&id=38572

Volt Fan

You cannot measure vehicle size just by interior space. I have driven large cars, and the Model 3 is an expensive “toy” compared to them. The Chevrolet Bolt EV has more interior space but some see it as “too small” yet I did sit in one. The trick is that the Bolt EV is tall (63 inches) which makes it look small from the front and side. Inside it is very comfortable.

I didn’t mention the Bolt or even put it in the EPA comparison. My comment was about Tesla calling the Model 3 midsize and referring to the 3 Series, A4, and C-Class as midsize premium cars, but they are classified as compact. The Model 3 is similar in size to those cars. I was just clarifying info provided by the EPA. None of this is my personal opinion or preference. I am very happy with the Bolt interior space.

MTN Ranger

Yes, the Model 3 is almost BMW 5 series/Mercedes E class size when looking at total interior volume. Closer to those than the 3 or C.

Narg

I’m with CR on this. The T3 is really not that exciting of a car. Way too many oddities and issues to make in enjoyable for me.

Ianstuart

I am puzzled by CR’s continual complaints about the controls. I recently too2 delivery of a Model 3 and it took me about one hour to get used to them and to find that what CR sees as problems are in fact advantages. What I don”t understand is why CR is misleading consumers

antrik

The controls are certainly polarising. Some like them, others don’t. The fact that CR seems to paint them as objectively inferior is rather silly…

Kbm3

Talk about missing the forest.

Wow.