UPDATE: Tesla Vs World: Unique Look Back At Tesla Killers That Failed To Kill


The Tesla killers are coming! Wait, what?

We must be talking about Rivian, right? With its R1T electric truck and R1S SUV, Tesla has some real competition coming.

But hold on a second. We did mention Tesla versus the world right? That implies not just one automaker. And what about the “unique look back” bit. Rivian is not really a look back, though it has existed for a decade.

Rivian is surely not the focus here.

Instead, we’re looking back to like 2012 and all of those “Tesla Killer” headlines that spread like wildfire across the Internet.

***UPDATE: Tesla CEO Elon Musk commented on this post via Twitter. We’ve embedded his reply below:

Lucky for us, we’ve got a friend in the name of Earl (@28delayslater on Twitter) who compiled these killer headlines into a really swell share.

You see, the truth is very few of these Tesla Killers ever became reality and those that did, didn’t live up to the hype or the headline. If any of them did, well, then why is Tesla still alive and kicking harder than ever these days? Proof of that kick? Just take a look at Model 3 sales, which are so strong all other electric car sales are tiny in comparison.

Let’s now take a stroll down that Tesla Killer memory lane. This is gonna be a fun one.

Lead image credit: @28delayslater

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119 Comments on "UPDATE: Tesla Vs World: Unique Look Back At Tesla Killers That Failed To Kill"

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A lot harder to kill Tesla now that they are dominating the luxury market and nipping away at the likes of Toyota and Hyundai. Meh. No one has gone all in on electric like Tesla. And any one close is 2-5 years behind on technology, innovation, and design.

You all are talking like they are the same. Tesla didn’t have to give up a multi billion investment in ICE platforms, engines and technology.
They found a breach in the market and went in.
If they were like GM or others, they would have done THE SAME.

Apple does this all the time. Far better to cannibalize your own sales than let someone else do it.

Yes, this is well-known in Silicon Valley and we even have a macabre term for it. You have to eat your own children or your competitors will. It’s not used much these days for obvious reasons.

The manufacturing prowess and being a hundred years older than startup Tesla was supposed to give legacy auto an edge ,Read all the Stinking Alpha bear articles , even to today. And only last year did a VW CEO admit that Tesla has something they don’t have (Herbert Diess).,Sandy Munro of Autoline daily , a Detroit veteran certainly thinks so.
The Chinese Auto Industry are soon to follow in Tesla s footsteps, Detroit has no clue that they are going to be going the KODAK way, that is if they are not rescued or bought by the Chinese, Let me give you a clue, find out who owns GE s appliance division, it starts with the letter H. , and they make Fridges

“No one has gone all in on electric like Tesla.“

No other car company was willing to LOSE MONEY for so long like Tesla. The length and amount of losses that Tesla experienced (before becoming profitable last year) was SIMPLY STAGGERING!!

Another point of view:
Other carmakers could have done the transition way cheaper than Tesla; they have the car building know how, they have financial power, sales organisation, Brand awareness, factorys and so on
The reason they still dont compete with Tesla is they mostly outcompete their own ice cars

I agree in that point of view, but they have another problem as well: Legacy carmakers are locked into contracts of selling their cars through franchise dealerships, and these dealerships resists to sell EV’s because they generate very little service revenue.

Yeah, Tesla totally cheated. Bunch of cheap, cheaters. Building in tents, laying off underperformers, making too many parts themselves. Where is the UAW? Auto dealers? Shareholders focused on profit, not some lofty, environmental ambition?

Tesla only won because they cheated. They cut out the diseases of the auto industry, and they did it despite half a dozen US states or more fighting them every step of the way.

Cheat on, Tesla. Where would the world be without you?

That is a problem of the legacy auto makers’ own making. If auto makers had not, in the past, used predatory business practices on their own dealers, forcing them to make up losses during economic downturns, then the various States in the U.S. wouldn’t have had to create State laws to protect auto makers from such practices. If that wasn’t the case, then auto makers would now be free to do direct sales, cutting out the “middleman” of the independent auto dealership, as Tesla is doing.

If legacy auto makers are now the victims of the arrangement they created for their own benefit, it’s the legacy of their own greed, immorality, and unethical behavior. I, for one, won’t shed any tears when some of them inevitably fail to make the transition to making and selling EVs.

But there are alternatives. Volkswagen has changed its contract with its European dealers, in an attempt to bring the auto dealership into the 21st century. That may or may not succeed, but at least VW is trying.

No elon

This isn’t true. This would also assume you could make EV’s that start at less than $20k. Outside of Cadillac and GM’s sports cars they don’t even sell cars as much as the model 3. Tesla is selling none luxury cars at luxury car prices. That isn’t Honda, Toyota, VW or Chevrolets core market.

A cheap electric Civic or Corolla would sell by the millions, IF they wanted to sell EVs.

The key word is cheap. If the battery alone is $7.5k that leaves $10k for the rest of the car and profit.

My Chevy Spark EV was a best buy. Only about $24k . Has Fast Charging, liquid cooled battery and high REGEN . All i’m missing is a back up camera, remote software updates and nationwide charging but that is coming .

Yes, they did a good job of subsidizing below-cost sales of a very limited number of compliance vehicle at a good price for consumers before they killed it.

…and within a few years, it will be possible for first-world auto makers to profitably make and sell EVs at the price of a Civic or Corolla. But today, it’s not. If it was possible, Tesla would already be doing it.

Explain that to Toyota, which represents nearly half of the trade-ins that Tesla receives.

“No other car company was willing to LOSE MONEY for so long like Tesla.”

Gosh, maybe Tesla should dig deep into the couch cushions for all the money it has “lost”. 🙄

Tesla has invested money in future growth… and very obviously, quite successfully!

Most people understand the difference between losing money and successfully investing it. Why is that so difficult for Tesla detractors and Tesla bashers?

Maybe it’s paying dividends to stock holders which should be described as “losing” money for a company.

Every new car model loses money for a year or two. The Corvette still loses but GM calls it a Halo car. The Prius lost for a few year but Toyota figured it was worth it.

I’ve seen estimates that in Tesla’s entire history they have had to raise $19 billion to get to where they are now. VW was alone fined $25 billion for the Diesel scandal. They have seemed to have no problem producing that money at all with no disruption to their other operations.

A new car platform can cost around $6 billion to create and Tesla has two. So $19 billion isn’t so far off what it would cost for any automaker to design two brand new alternative fuel platforms from the ground up. And even a better deal when realizing that in that cost is the build out of a worldwide charging infrastructure.

Then selling those vehicles built on that platform for 8-10 years at medium volume, which is what Tesla is doing with Model S and X, then you aren’t losing money. That’s how cars are made. Big upfront investment with amortization of that cost over the overall number of units sold.

Yes there are a few different sets of numbers to use, but each come up with the same results just like you said. Tesla now has approx. $30 Billion in Assets, on approx. $23.5 Billion in Liabilities per their latest numbers:


Tesla’s Assets minus Liabilities is now LARGER than their negative Retained Earnings, proving once and for all that their book losses have been successfully spent to build equity. They spent money up-front and took up-front losses in order to create what Adam Smith would label “Wealth” through long term “Investment”.

And the crazy part is that Tesla has only just begun reaping the profits of their investments, and they will just continue to grow Assets faster than Liabilities like they have for the last few years.

“Lose Money” — Instead, They lost it in their Stock Price and continue to do so. Doing nothing isn’t a competent strategy to manage a company.

Hmm, so how does someone start a competitive new car company from scratch without a massive amount of spending and investment first?
If you have the secret sauce on exactly how that’s done, go ahead.. give it a go, I’m sure you will be fabulously successful with a business strategy that allows the production of highly complex, expensive consumer items without a SIMPLY STAGGERING investment.
I just don’t understand why people expect Tesla to somehow circumvent basic business development strategies to create a multi billion dollar car company without unprecedented amounts of R&D, product development, infrastructure development and other basic spending requirements.

Guys, Tesla is going to be dead by 2012 guaranteed!

Okay, okay 2013 the latest!

2014, they are dead for sure!

They can’t possibly survive through to 2015.

It’ll be a miracle if they make it to 2016!

2017, bankrupt, no other way!

I know I said it already a few times, but 2018, they are dead this time!

It’s just taking a little longer than predicted, but 2019, dead!

Okay, fine, 2020!

For sure, 3050!

I’m engaged in a battle with a troll on YouTube saying basically that. He swore that Elon would step down in disgrace and Tesla would be bankrupt in 6 months. “Mark my word!” So I did, and that deadline was almost 3 months ago. I challenged him on it, and now it’s “In 2 years, mark my word!” Lol these guys are nothing if not consistent. Consistently wrong.

Should have. Stated 10/1 line

I wagered a friend about this. He admitted that I won (Cadillac ATS figures versus the Model III), won’t pay up, and has turned so visceral and angry about Tesla’s success that I am worried about his emotional health. I wonder if they know each other.

Go wander around at Jalopnik for a little while. They rant and stomp and go frothing mad about Elon fanbois without realizing just how they are the other side of the same coin.

I pointed out to one guy who claimed that Teslas were liberal g*y-mobiles that the Model 3P beat an Alfa Quadrifoglio at Streets of Willow driven by the same professional driver for an article in Motor Trend. His rebuttal, so it beat an Alfa, the Alfa probably broke down halfway around the track and Motor Trend is junk. Then he made a claim that it would have no chance against the likes of a ATS V or a Panamera. So I then listed Laguna Seca track record times with the Model 3P beating the best listed Panamera time. Silence.

Some people feed on hate.

They are not investors nor shorts. They were told by the political news sources they trust that Tesla is a liberal dream that is going die a horrible death, and the liberals are going to be on a deep funk about it. You can laugh at them. Scheadenfreud all you can eat If Tesla succeeds their trusted news sources are wrong. What else they have been fooled about? all those disturbing thoughts come up. So they react with anger.

Once their trusted news vendors come up with a face saving way of shrugging off the success of Tesla, they will go away.

Isn’t it amazing when the gullible regurgitate Seeking Alpha Wack Jobs?

Can’t leave out the original “Tesla-fighter” from 2009 that was supposed to compete against the original Roadster, by basically copying the idea of taking a Lotus and putting batteries in it: The Dodge EV:



They got one out of 3…not that bad compared to other manufacturers.

That is true. And the Pacifica PHEV is even going to outlive the Volt it was designed to compete against (based on the Motor Trend story link).

But the “Mopar Madness! Dodge Tesla-fighter, Jeep, Chrysler Volt-fighters beginning in 2010!” subtitle of the story is what really cracks me up!! *lol*

Wait, how is the Pacifica Hybrid a Volt competitor? The only PHEVs less like the PacHy than the Volt are the i8 and the Karma.

I don’t know. But if you get a chance to hitch a ride in a time machine back to 2009 and ask the writer what he was thinking, I’d love to know the answer too!!! *LOL*

Not even. The current Pacifica PHEV is VERY different than the minivan discussed in that article. I guess they did eventually ship a plug-in minivan but it was probably an entire new effort.

Oh man….that Chrysler ENVI division was the biggest smoke & mirrors hoax ever. They never built ANY of that stuff. The Dodge Circuit EV. The electrified Jeep. NOTHING.

Only a decade or so later did they FINALLY come out with the Pacifica PHEV minivan. But they only really market it in California.

So the number one all time Tesla “killers” are the stock market analysts and writers. We knew that already.

This is a sad fact.
It’s really shown the “quality” of analysis and the “professionalism” of the whole class of Wall Street. Very disappointing.

Funny thing is.. The only vehicle that comes close to being a real Tesla competitor is the Jaguar I-Pace, and I don’t even see it mentioned in the headlines. How Ironic. But yeah, I’m still really not seeing much of any competition for Tesla at this point. The Bolt EV is a possibly close to a Model-3 competitor in terms of cross-shopping, but doesn’t sell anywhere near the volume.

Because historic perspective. Jaguar is new development.

Jag is still production limited to not much better than a CARB credit car.

So far, I think only the Porsche Taycan, and maybe the Kia/Hyundais, will be successful on their own right.

The Taycan is going for a new niche, with a highly competent parent who is OK to lose money for some time, and with a loyal customer base.

Eventually Tesla might compete there if they release a 100 kWh lower end Roadster version but that’s some years away.

The problem there is the Hyundai’s and Kia’s are only sold in Compliance States.

They are trying to thread the needle. Protect the ICEV sales in some markets while developing BEV for other markets. The ZEV credit is just some opportunistic profit taking.

How can the Bolt be close to a Model 3 competitor when it doesn’t sell anywhere near the volume? It’s like saying the basketball game last night was competitive despite the fact that one team’s score didn’t come anywhere near what the other team scored.

Apparently how one EV supporter defines “competition” is rather different from how another defines it. I submit this is more of an argument over semantics than any argument over substance. The only real argument I’ve seen over the Bolt EV is whether or not the (now fortunately changed) original front seats were really uncomfortable or not.

Actually, the “fix” for the front seats is still being debated.

None of those companies ever made the claim of “Tesla killer”. It is always those “media coverage” that turns it into “Tesla killer” to generate clicks.

Because we all know that just mention the words Tesla killer will get you an army of angry Tesla cults to defend Tesla and bash competition along with Tesla haters who will chime in with their idiotic criticism. The bash storms follows it will get more coverage click than ever….

Yup. Journalism at… well, I wouldn’t say its lowest; that would be National Enquirer and Gawker.com territory. But certainly this habit of sensationalizing normal market competition by using the meme “Tesla killer” in headlines owes more to attention-grabbing and “infotainment” than to responsible journalism.

Elon Musk says he welcomes competition from other auto makers. Too bad media coverage of the EV industry can’t take the same attitude. And sad to see that InsideEVs so often engages in this same sensationalism.

A big part that’s missed in the perpetual “Tesla Killer” moniker is the Supercharging network. It’s not just the car, the car is only half the equation. The other half is the ability to turn the car around on a long-distance road trip. Folks spend a LOT of money for these vehicles, ability to use the vehicle in every capacity is very important. And when another vehicle like the i-Pace or e-tron comes close, I believe the Supercharging network pushes the final “tie-breaker” over to Tesla.

I think something else missed is the fact that Tesla is establishing itself as the premier BEV company of the world. I know I’m gonna draw out all the other brand loyal folks on that comment, but it’s absolutely true. Just like other brands like Apple that completely own their space, Tesla has established the beach head for EV presence and innovation. And like it or not, they’re the only purely BEV car company known globally (so far).

I have to agree. I’m considering our next vehicle purchase and even if I think there might be good value in the Nero EV it just won’t compare well to a model 3 or model y because of the charging network Tesla continues to invest in. Here in Calgary, Alberta and surrounding area it is not as well developed yet, but it will be much better by next year. If you are wondering which network will be easier to deal with just watch TeslaBjorn videos on YouTube where he uses Tesla network and then when using other networks. It’s almost laughable how much better the experience seems to be with Tesla.

Apple has some real competition, also Apple phones are not so much better than the alternative for users to go Apple. The gap Tesla has over others is like if Apple had the iphone 10 while others were coming out with Microsoft Zune with a Nokia phone taped to the back.

Wow this is a bad example. Apple is considered the least innovative of phone makers but charges the most. I can’t name one feature on an iPhone others didn’t have years ago outside the lack of a headphone jack.

I don’t think anyone here is arguing the merits of Apple products. We’re simply talking about the brand and brand recognition. The term ‘iphone’ has a lot more recognition than the other non-Apple competitors. That’s all. And I believe that when you think ‘Tesla,’ you think purely electric. No other company elicits that image, regardless how compelling their BEV products may be. Simply because they don’t purely focus on BEV. And I think that establishing that idea in folks’ brains is important, especially for many who don’t take the time to do research yet are familiar with a brand’s name.

Don’t forget today’s 3 wheels car that cnbc it Bloomberg said is a Tesla killer

I don’t think I would be caught dead in that thing. Also it’s cost prohibitive if your family needs a vehicle and you are trying to be frugal by driving only one vehicle.

It’s the Arcimoto FUV, and at the end of the Video, The Founder and President, Mark Frohnmayer, graciously declines to “Go Full Elon” ( Joe Rogan Blunt Puff ) during the interview, that is at least while the camera is rolling.


Daimler is one of the legacy ICE OEMs that was an early investor in Tesla, and later cashed out their position, when Tesla became a more stable enterprise. The real direct competition to anything Tesla has yet to materialize, mostly due to cost efficiencies in the scaling of battery manufacturing, and lack of widespread DC fast charge support.

Any potential Tesla killer, probably won’t come for a few more years, and probably not from the usual suspects, who keep pretending to be on the verge of some new EV breakthrough.

Let the can kicking and foot dragging continue, while whistling past the ICE OEM graveyard.

The problem with any “Tesla killer” that may be a few years out, is that Tesla will be releasing the Model Y by then, which will kill those “Tesla killers”. The biggest problem for those ICE OEM’ers is that catching up to Tesla is a moving target, and the longer they drag their feet, the harder it gets for them.

Especially with the recent Tesla purchase of Maxwell Technologies. Tesla could potentially have some closely guarded ideas, that are still in the development stage, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t some sort of super fast charging hybrid Supercapacitor/ battery combination, currently undergoing some pre validation test trials.


Right. Designing and producing a new car model properly takes about 5 years. Do a rush job and you come up with, for example, the Bolt EV, which GM can’t sell at a profit, or at least not much of one.

If auto makers really are trying to design a “Tesla killer” — and I think that is largely a myth, sensationalism created by the news media — then they would be aiming at Tesla’s current cars, not the cars Tesla will be selling 5 years from now!

But they need to two another factory to get the Y out. Freemont is filled with development and production models that they can’t take another car in thier production line. Tesla Truck might go to the Giga with the Roadster. The Y in China with 3 but Americans don’t like Chinas cars so a plant needs to be built and taken over on the east coast for the Y and 3 and open up future development for compact CUV and Tesla pickup

They’re planning to build the Y in Gigafactory 1 at the moment.

Yes, and GF2 will be in Europe (the one in China is generally referred to as GF3).

They are trying to play catch-up and too often also trying to keep their ICE divisions going strong. They = everyone but Tesla. In my mind there are 3 possibilities by 2025 for Tesla, 40%, 50%, or 60% annual growth. With that by 2025 Tesla deliveries wil be: 2.6M or 4.2M or 6.6M. And the funny thing is the traditional ICE companies split focus only favours Tesla getting better growth. Better product focus “ALWAYS” wins.

Most of those were just clickbait headlines.

Were…are…will be.

Not so any longer. Why?

Big differences coming in 2020-25:

– Strict emission regulations in China and EU coming in 2020 – requiring more EVs.

– Battery pricing and ramps underway already (BYD, CATL, Big three from South Korea)

– Huge EV investments by all big car makers for 2020-2025 already underway (new plants, plant retooling, dedicated EV platforms like Volkswagen MEB etc.).

Theee big challenges for Tesla!

Well, thanks for proving the point that each time they miss, you folks just move the goal posts a few more years out!!!

The problem for all those other car companies, is that Tesla will benefit from stricter emissions regulations with more sales too. Meanwhile, ICE companies will sink a bunch of wasted money into getting their existing ICE fleets to meet higher emissions standards. Their forced investment into dying ICE tech is like a dead weight tied to their ankles while they try to swim a 1600 meter race.

And Tesla is cutting battery pricing and is ramping more battery and plants, and building out more car/truck EV platforms in 2020-25 too. Actually even sooner than that….

I was going to say Nix, the only people more lame than the analysts in the headlines shown are the pathetic loser trolls here that keep repeating their FUD thesis with regular goal-post moves like tftf as Tesla keeps growing, improving its dominance and getting stronger!

Hey, looks like Musk just reminded everyone about the ridiculously fraudulent “Tesla Death Watch” started by the morons “honest”-Ed Neidermeyer and his fellow liar Bertel Shitt.

To think I just brought them up in response to NOT-Impartial, Observed to hate Tesla troll the other day when he tried to sneak in an anti-Tesla article by none other then Niedermeyer!

Yes Tesla battery prices might be going down but they still can’t produce a $35k model 3. They are lowering prices but many think that’s just cutting into profit.

But using tftf’s time frame of 2020-2025, the $35k Model 3 will be here by then, at a profit.

“Tesla… more car/truck EV platforms”

Do you know what a real platform such as VW’s MEB is?

Tesla doesn’t have one yet.

That’s why so few parts are shared among the S and the X.

The MEB platform will be used for many cars and even among sister brands (VW, Skoda, lower-end Audi models…).

That’s really driving prices down.

PS: I’m not moving goal posts. The first EV models are/were coming 2017-2021, many more EVs based on these dedicated EV platforms are coming from 2020-2025.

PPS: My 2017-2021 (single models) and 2020-2025 (based on EV platforms) timelines refer to LONG-RANGE EVs competing with Tesla, there were of course EVs before then with shorter range who didn’t directly compete (such as the first-gen Leaf etc.).

Tesla may not have a shared platform but VW is only looking to sell 1 million MEB vehicles by 2025. Telsa will have sold a lot more examples of 3 by then than all those different MEB models combined!

“PS: I’m not moving goal posts. The first EV models are/were coming 2017-2021…”

You personally, “tftf”, have been predicting Tesla’s imminent (within 3 months) collapse pretty much every single day, often or usually in multiple comments, probably since the day you first appeared on Reeking Alpha some years ago, posting as “Tales From The Future” [sic]**. I see your first Tesla bashing article was in Feb. 2014, not long after Tesla’s stock price began soaring.

Here’s a great example of your phony “predictions” from that article:

“All major car companies are working on autonomos [sic]** or near-autonomous cars. These Tesla competitors also have existing relations or joint-ventures with large EV battery suppliers, mostly located in Asia.”

Yeah, we see how well those “relations” with battery makers have helped Tesla’s would-be competition, haven’t we? 🙄 And you’ve engaged in endless Tesla bashing about Gigafactory 1, from the day its plans were announced, despite the fact that is probably Tesla’s biggest competitive advantage.

You see, some of us EV advocates have taken the time to, as they say, “Know thine enemy”. You certainly are the enemy of the EV revolution in general, and Tesla specifically.

**I see your grammar and spelling are as bad as your “analysis”.

Are you seriously coming into the comments of an article about the foolishness of all these people over the years claiming that things are changing for the worse for Tesla and claiming that things are now going to change for the worse for Tesla? I can’t imagine a way of making yourself seem less relevant.

They MEB platform driving prices down? They haven’t even shipped a MEB car.

Yes, Musk recognized the fact that the X only shares about 30% of parts with the S. However, the Y will share over 70% of the parts with the 3 – the only differences being, of course, things like external and internal panels, different headlight & and taillight assemblies, and some unavoidable modifications to the suspension and frame to safely handle the higher height and weight.

The only difference this time is the legacy auto makers are actually investing in EV technology and tooling up factories (mostly just VW). So by 2025 there may actually be viable, non-compliance car EVs not made by Tesla. Although none of this will hurt Tesla as the competition is ICE vehicles not other EVs. If anything more people will become aware of EVs increasing demand.

That’s the bottom line, yes!

I’m sure that no matter what happens, “tftf”, you and your fellow die-hard anti-Tesla “Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!” pack members will continue to find ever more ridiculous excuses to claim that Tesla is on the verge of financial collapse.

Yeah, any day… er, week… er, month… er, year… er, decade… er, century from now, Tesla will suddenly collapse in a puff of illogic!
😀 😀 😀

Keep going Tesla!

You *MAY* be somewhat right. VW does seem to have FINALLY gotten it. Of course it took dieselgate and Tesla destroying the sales of their Audi & Porsche divisions to get them to FINALLY wake up.

But they are all still FAR behind and just playing catch-up. And only a few (like VW) seem to be gearing up.

And sad thing is that some did try but fell flat on their face. BMW put in a decent effort…they tested with the electric MINI & some electric BMW sedan. Then they jumped in big….and flopped. The weird 3-cylinder i8 sports car PHEV and the i3 weirdmobile.

Loveday people, take a break, mates. There is such thing as too many Tesla articles per day.

Tesla is easily half the EV market in the USA. The idea there should be a cap on Tesla-related articles here is as absurd as claiming IEVs should reduce their coverage of the EV market and industry. Dude, if you don’t want to read so many Tesla related articles, nobody is forcing you to click on anything.

Now, I’d like to see an end to coverage of certain specific things, such as EV car fires and arguments over whether or not the latest accident in a Tesla car did or didn’t have Autosteer (wrongly called “Autopilot”) engaged. And when a poem tweeted by Elon appears in an InsideEVs article, as one did quite recently, then indeed I think IEVs writers and editors need to cut down on all the Tesla Kool-Aid they’re drinking!

But so long as there are interesting news items to cover, and interesting analyses and examinations of Tesla related subjects, then I hope IEVs will continue cranking them out every day.

Actually I think the Tesla haters are just Trump supporters and Climate Change deniers.
They read Breitbart and InfoWars to get the knowledge.
There still talking about Solyndra like no business was were a failure and how much the government wasted on that project.
While this administration talks about how great the economy is after the tax cuts.
Well for fiscal year 2019 3 months we have a budget deficit of 319 billion 4.2 % of GDP.
Interest on the debt is a billion a day and that’s at historically low levels. If interest rates went up to 4% or 5% then what.
Scholars just voted Trump the 3rd worst President in history after Andrew Johnson who was impeached and Buchanan the President before Lincoln.
The think that’s really sad some of the GOP aren’t bad but they have no spine.

“Scholars just voted Trump the 3rd worst President in history…”

Oh, I think they seriously undervalue the amount of damage he has done, and is doing, to America. The current administration is the worst disaster to hit the USA since the Civil War.

3rd worse?? Who’s worse than willfully ignoring the reality of the times? Jackson, maybe, for being the corrupt and genocidal maniac that he was. Who would be the other? Buchanan? Johnson (Andrew)? Harding? Hoover? Nixon?

Another Euro point of view

Individually none of those new EVs are Tesla killers but together they start to put profit margin pressure on Tesla. That can be seen from the price reduction which came in series in the last months, I mean if you reduce your cost and that demand remain very high you should take this opportunity to increase your margins, Tesla does not do that.
Those price reductions in turn reduces some competitive advantage Tesla artifiicially maintenained in the past such as outstanding client services. I mean artificially as for example this high level of service was not sustainable, way too expensive. Now never forget the slow time which is specific to this industry. Like 5 years to put into production a new EV. This means that the industry took note of the Model S in 2012, started to act on it in 2014 when Tesla started to sell the Model S in meaningfull numbers, then those EVS like the Taycan etc, will only reach the market now or in 2020.
For example, I seriously believe that the Nio ES8 and ES6 is right now putting a lot of price pressure on Tesla in China.

Another Euro point of view

Talking to myself again, another pressure on profit margins in current situation might be Tesla itself, I mean second hand Tesla. One or two years ago the second hand Tesla’s were still very expensive in many countries. This is not true anymore a and looking at Youtube test drive of Model 3 in Europe, many wrote in the comments section that at this price point (EUR 55k) they would rather buy a second hand Model S than a new Model 3. This is a situation about which every car maker has to deal with but in the specific case of Tesla, because the company is so new, it occurs for the first time.

Keep talking to yourself, you are after all the only one who is listening.

“…they start to put profit margin pressure on Tesla. That can be seen from the price reduction which came in series in the last months…”

You mean, the price reductions which were timed to coincide with the drop in the U.S. Federal tax credit, and shortly thereafter?

Dude, I understand that you sadly have a compulsion to post endless anti-Tesla FÜD, but don’t insult our intelligence while doing so, hmmm? It makes you look as clueless as you seem to think we are.

I still remember how Mercedes S550E was touted as the Model S killer. For sure the combination of that Mercedes batch and Mercedes interior would be no match for Model S right? Well, last year Mercedes managed to shift 96 copies of its S550E vs 25745 Model S…..

Can’t see the images

Same here.

Elon needs to name the pickup “killer” so we can have a Tesla Killer

Brilliant! I’d love it if that actually happened.
🙂 🙂 🙂

It’s the Tesla “Killer Machine, it’s got EVery thing!”

Deep Purple – “Highway Star”

But then their models would be “S ≡ X Y Killer”. Not sure that has the ring to it he would want…

Sounds good to me.

Sounds like a great band name. Would sell billions of albums.

let’s not forget the big big let me say big titles about the super new Tesla-killer AUDI E-TRON!!

by the way, where is it? is it on sale somewhere, i mean real sale, not deposit waiting for delivery

Isn’t that one of the compliance cars which will be available only by special order? Not stocked at all by regular dealers?

My gut tells me that German ones (especially to VW Group) would be Samsung while Tesla could be Google Nexus and Toyota could be Nokia.

I think this article is s great example of illustrating that “analysts” don’t know sh-t about what they speak of. They bounce around so many different industries, know “a little of this, a little of that,” yet speak like they’re grand masters on any topic they happen to land upon. There’s no accountability, every time they get the coin flip correct, they’re the Great Financial Prophet, when they call it wrong.. it’s simply crickets-thirty.

Yes, and I find it amazing that everyone doesn’t simply ignore them, as they deserve.

Tesla is kicking ass and taking names

These certainly are great examples of how so many journalists try to sensationalize news by turning perfectly ordinary market competition into some sort of “death match”, as if they were describing a cage match fight to the death in front of a cheering and jeering crowd, rather than just the ordinary everyday experience of making and selling cars.

I think the whole “Tesla killer” meme comes much more from CNBC and Business Insider, not to mention Forbes and Fortune — and yes, sadly, from InsideEVs too — than it does from GM or Volkswagen or Toyota… or even Jaguar, despite absurdly marketing its I-Pace as a head-to-head competitor with the Model X, which it certainly isn’t.

Most of the automakers are still producing small COMPLIANCE amount of electrics. Some only in select areas. None have a charging network yet. A few talk about a charging network but now see it takes year to do what Tesla has done. They all need.
-Long range.
-Battery Management for long life.
-Nationwide low cost charging.
– Solar and battery at each Fast Charger.
-remote software updates.
– Service in every state including mobile support vehicles.
– They need to make their own batteries.
– Safe designs .
Just to name a few differences.

First I have heard of this.

How come All These Tesla killers are dead or none existent or never made it to market?

Hardly surprising as Tesla’s real competition as an EV-only automaker is legacy ICE cars. Any legacy automaker still mainlining ICE cars while they tepidly try to sell low volumes of EV’s will never profit on EV’s or be a threat. They have to compete with themselves before they can think of competing with the likes of Tesla or other successful EV-only startups.


None of them fully “got” EVs. AND THEY STILL DON’T. They are slowly getting better.

But the important concepts were always there ready to be copied:
1) Aerodynamics, Aerodynamics, Aerodynamics! – Great aero is a free way to maximize range and reduce battery requirements.
2) Decent range. The ~100 mile EVs were never going to grow beyond the hardcore EVers (like me).
3) >100KW DC fast-charging – required for long trips
4) Start at the top of the market and work your way down – AKA Tesla’s “secret” plan.
5) A reliable & well-placed charging network that is integrated into the car’s nav system.

Unlike SpaceX, this is not rocket science. And despite being shown what to do, the other automakers kept screwing up.

They didn’t just keep “skrewing up”, they purposefully and willfully got entangled in the revenue stream of some of the most profitable energy business to EVer extract, produce. and distribute liquid petroleum energy products worldwide.

It’s just another bad case of :