Which DC Fast Charging Standard Will Become Dominant? CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla?

1 year ago by Mark Kane 102

DC Fast Rechargeable Electric Car Sales (estimated) - EV Sales Blog data

Worldwide DC Fast Rechargeable Electric Car Sales (estimated) – EV Sales Blog data

An interesting comparison of electric car sales with DC fast charging capability sorted by charging standards was released in March by EV Sales Blog.

MySupercharger - Print your own smartphone Supercharger

MySupercharger – Print your own smartphone Supercharger

There are three main contenders:

  • CHAdeMO used worldwide
  • CCS (Combined Charging System) – two versions (different in North America and Europe, rest of the world uses one of version depending on the market)
  • Tesla Superchargers – two versions (different in North America and Europe/rest of the world)

While we note that there is no perfect data source for those plug-ins that are optioned with the DC protocol, EV Sales Blog has done a pretty good job estimating the numbers, and in general we are not so much focused on the numbers themselves, but rather on the trend.

Editor’s Note: For this exercise we are omitting the Chinese GBT standard (which is growing the fastest of any DC charging protocol) due to it regionality.

Indeed, the growth of EV sales with different DC fast charging standard is interesting. Clearly the first big player in the industry was the Japanese CHAdeMO standard, supported heavily by Nissan. Mitsubishi also uses CHAdeMO, but their all-electric car sales have weakened over time, and the DC inlet in the Outlander PHEV isn’t as important as it is for pure electric models (such as the i-MiEV). CHAdeMO leads, but now limps without broad support from the other manufacturers (outside Japan).

The race between Tesla Supercharging’s dedicated solution and the newest addition to the field – CCS is more close.  Tesla sold the most electric cars from of any brand (outside of BYD in China), while CCS is now supported by the largest alliance of carmakers (and regulations in Europe) – who certainly are arriving late to the party, but are now also starting to arrive in force.

In other words in the next one to two years, we could see that all-three standards will be pretty close in total volume.

DC Fast Rechargeable Electric Cars Fleet (estimated) - EV Sales Blog data

DC Fast Rechargeable Electric Cars Fleet (estimated) – EV Sales Blog data

source: EV Sales Blog

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102 responses to "Which DC Fast Charging Standard Will Become Dominant? CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla?"

  1. RexxSee says:

    Weak ranged cars NEED more chargers, more often.

    Hey InsideEVs, why don’t you make a graph with the total power offered or the total number of chargers?

    1. PK says:

      Yes, let’s see it compared to the growth of each standard.

    2. evcarnut says:

      the Last will be 1st., & the 1st will be last….

      1. mr. M says:

        The first will be last? Really? Where do you find CCS charger that are 3-4 times as fast as Chademo (in average?).

        1. Fred says:

          Next year… 150Kw…

          1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

            So far all public higher power 100+ kW CCS chargers have both CCS and Chademo plugs. No need for a big fight here.

    3. przemo_li says:

      Yes.

      Right now Tesla Superchargers are the winner.

      CCS only recently reached 100kWh, while CHAdeMO is frozen at 50 kWh at best.

      Tesla have 135kWh in the wild already.

      Chargers * power output, puts Telsa in the front. As simple as that.

      Competition will get fiercer, when longer range cars emerge on the market. But for now its Tesla gaining advantage for the next 1-2 years.

      1. mustang_sallad says:

        kW not kWh

      2. 1) CHAdeMO

        Typical – 20-48kW max into each car

        125 amp * 500 volts = 62.5kW max typical today
        200 amps * 500 volts = 100kW max (max design)
        300 amps * 500 volts = 150kW planned

        2) CCS-Combo1 (regional North Amercia only)

        Typical – 20-48kW max into each car

        125 amp * 500 volts = 62.5kW max typical today
        200 amps * 500 volts = 100kW max (max design)
        300 amps * 500 volts = 150kW planned

        3) Tesla Supercharger

        Typical – 120kW max into each car

        370 amp * 405 volts = 150kW max typical today

      3. Dave R says:

        CHAdeMO has supported 100kW in it’s specifications charging from the start.

        But without cars that can handle that rate, it’s kind of pointless to support at this time.

        1. Tech01x says:

          When taxpayers are subsidizing EVSE installations, there is a public policy issue at stake. If it’s all private money, then sure, they can waste whatever money they want.

          Government should not be subsidizing the installation of DC charging at less than SAE Level 3 standards. It’s a no win situation. Instead, let them standardize on something that actually has legs for the long run.

          Clearly, looking forward 10 years, we are likely to have battery packs within 125 kWh capacity, which means even J1772 at 80 amps supports that kind of future. That means installing a J1772 @ 80 amps can provide a 10+ year payback.

          Looking at DC charging, can you say that about CHAdeMO? CCS? Even the Tesla plug is likely insufficient at a 10 year span. But Tesla is using their own money.

          But clearly, 125A and 200A solutions are not going to cut it. Government can force the issue and should have forced the issue in 2010, well ahead of Tesla.

          To achieve 2 hours of driving, 30 minutes of charging, given likely vehicles that have 200 miles of range, you need 350 watts/mile (including charging losses). At 65 mph avg, that’s 130 miles which means 45.5 kWh needed. That’s 91 kW charging on average. That was true in 2010 as it is today as it will be in 2020 without unexpected materials or battery tech changes. And that’s a minimum, which means those unexpected technology shifts are likely to just move average to minimum.

          91 kW average for a session means hitting that at no more than about 40% in today’s pack voltages. That means 91000/340 = 268 amps.

          Now, shift that to 70 mph average, 375 Wh/mile for a mix of SUVs, minivans and so forth in the winter, we’re talking 52.5 kWh in 30 minutes, or 105 kW average. That’s then 309 amps.

          So any standard that doesn’t deliver 300 amps should be non-starter and should not get public money. That was true in 2010, that’s true in 2016, and likely true in 2020.

          Any DC EVSE that doesn’t deliver 300 amps would be obsolete by 2020.

          1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

            I may want for the future to come faster but there are no cars with 125 kWh batteries or cars that would be able to utilize more than around 80 kW CCS/Chademo in foreseeable future. Spending taxpayer money on them right now would be a waste as they would sit for few years unused. And they cost significantly more than lower power versions. Neither Bolt nor Leaf 2 makers have announced about plans to support 100 kW+ DC, it isn’t even clear what they will support and it will be a surprise if their 60 kWh batteries will cope with it, although technically it is possible. Tesla? Tesla doesn’t care about standards or common charging network, why would taxpayers need to pay for some chargers just for them if they are not even planning to use these CCS/Chademo chargers to full extent? Taxpayers had already poured a lot of money into Tesla, more than enough.

      4. Terawatt says:

        We’ve had 120 kW CCS in Norway (just one or two stations) for a few months here in Norway. The only vehicle that could charge at full power was Model S (with adapter)!

        The 150 kW standard is finished. They are now working on the 300 kW one.

  2. Pinewold says:

    This needs to be broken down by USA vs. Europe.

    Doesn’t CCS have much more traction in Europe than USA?

    1. protomech says:

      Yes, and USA vs Japan.

      Worth noting that the vast majority of the Tesla cars have “chipped in” to fund their respective charging networks, where the other charging inlets have to bootstrap their own networks absent support from a third party.

    2. Cavaron says:

      In case of Germany it’s (only counting 43kW or more):
      ~180 CCS sites
      ~125 CHAdeMO sites
      ~110 Type2 fast sites
      ~55 Supercharger sites

      But plug-wise it’s (only counting 43kW or more):
      -359 Supercharger plugs
      -218 CCS plugs
      -131 CHAdeMO plugs
      -129 Type2 fast plugs

      Source: http://www.goingelectric.de/stromtankstellen/statistik/Deutschland/

      1. Cavaron says:

        PS: No cumulative data about fleets, sorry 😉

      2. Bone says:

        These numbers seem to be way off. According to ccs-map.eu there is 342 CCS sites in Germany.

        1. mr. M says:

          Maybe 180 that are working and are available to the public?

        2. Cavaron says:

          As far as I can see, ccs-map.eu is collecting it’s data from different sources and sometimes counts charger-sites twice – look at this one near the city of Kassel in both maps:

          http://www.goingelectric.de/stromtankstellen/Deutschland/Lohfelden/Autohof-Lohfeldener-Ruessel-Alexander-von-Humboldt-Strasse-1/10838/

          Also goingelectric only counts public ones and there are seeveral CCS limited to 22kW (not counting as fast chargers).

      3. franky_b says:

        You should only count sites, as SuperCharger split the power across all plugs when more then one Tesla is charging.

    3. ClarksonCote says:

      I agree, the breakout of USA vs. Europe vs. Japan would be very helpful.

  3. Vexar says:

    Data on charging infrastructure utilization by type should have been included in this. Strength of a network is a combination of use, location, and number. Measuring only in number lacks perspective.

    1. TomArt says:

      Agreed.

  4. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

    Well, let’s ignore China’s standard…

    I see CHAdeMO disappearing outside of Japan. The fundamental problem is that it requires a separate socket. CCS and Tesla use a single socket, which make manufacturing simpler and cheaper.

    So CCS will be the dominant standard.

    But as long as Tesla continues with its pay-up-front model, it can continue to build out its Supercharger network with its own plug.

    With much higher volumes for Model 3, the build-out of Superchargers would quickly reach the point where coverage ceases to be an issue and capacity becomes more important. With 200+ miles rated range and home charging Superchargers do not need to be at high density. Then, whatever the standard, Tesla would be able to make an adapter, as it has done with CHAdeMO.

    1. protomech says:

      “The fundamental problem is that it requires a separate socket. CCS and Tesla use a single socket, which make manufacturing simpler and cheaper.”

      Larger than that, I think, is that there’s simply very limited manufacturer support on the CHAdeMO side.

      Mitsubishi, Nissan, and Hyundai/Kia were the only major automakers to support CHAdeMO in the beginning. Honda and Toyota both nominally support the standard but haven’t introduced any non-compliance EVs in the US.

      Sales for the Nissan LEAF are tailing off.

      Mitsubishi has never sold very many i-MiEVs, and the US Outlander PHEV won’t have the low-power CHAdeMO plug found on EU / JP versions.

      Hyundai supported CHAdeMO with the low-volume Kia Soul EV, but appears to be switching to support CCS in the US at least with their new IONIQ plug-in.

      Tesla has a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S, but that adapter will almost certainly have very limited volume.

      So essentially Nissan stands alone.

      Virtually every other automaker supports CCS in the US. GM, BMW, VW are shipping vehicles today with CCS support. Ford and Hyundai are scheduled to release vehicles supporting CCS later this year. Daimler and the rest of VAG (Audi / Porsche) are committed to supporting CCS in 2017 / 2018.

      In 2015 Nissan sold as many LEAFs in the US as all vehicles supporting CCS combined (VW e-Golf, BMW i3, Chevy Spark EV).

      http://insideevs.com/final-plug-in-electric-sales-report-for-u-s-more-than-400000-evs/

      And the first 3 months of 2016, Nissan LEAF outsold those 3 vehicles combined.

      http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

      That balance will change later this year when BMW and VW both release updated models with additional range, and Chevy releases the Bolt EV .. and Ford and Hyundai are scheduled to release their own CCS-compatible EVs.

      It’s an open question whether Nissan will adopt CCS as well in the US / EU or continue to push CHAdeMO. Nissan LEAF has been a standout among US EVs but they’re probably not strong enough to go it alone.

      1. Cavaron says:

        Citroen/Peugeot supports CHAdeMO and they will turn the tide in it’s fav… gnah, just kiddin’ (but they really support it).

  5. Tim V says:

    The biggest problem with CCS in the US is that where they exists, which is not a lot of places, they’re in clusters centered in single cities. Frankly you can’t use them to actually get anywhere.

    1. SparkEV says:

      That isn’t true. When people travel, they typically go to another city centers where CCS are available. For most people, having CCS in cities is fine.

      But for rare very long trips to cross vast wasteland, there’s no way to do it now. Most hotels don’t even provide L1, let alone L2, forcing one to camp at RV campgrounds. But how often must you cross 200+ miles of wasteland?

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        It’s bad enough when people living on the coasts call our Midwestern states “flyover States”. Calling the States we live in “wasteland” isn’t merely insulting, it’s ignoring reality pretty firmly.

        Amazingly enough Sparky, many people actually do live in actual cities, not “wasteland”, where it’s 200 or more miles to the next major city. Here in the Kansas City area, it’s 207 miles to St. Louis; 605 miles to Denver; and 453 miles to Dallas. It’s also 199 miles to Wichita and 269 miles to Tulsa, altho calling either of those “major cities” is rather questionable.

        I also understand the midway point between Los Angeles and Las Vegas is one of the most popular Supercharger stops for Model S drivers on weekends.

        EV fast chargers, and ultimately superfast chargers, only in major cities? Ain’t gonna cut it, Sparky. Period.

        1. RobertM says:

          I agree but CHAdeMO isn’t doing much better. Look at a map of Montana there are a few Super Charger stations then Level 1/2 chargers. Period. Going update and done both coasts look pretty doable with both standards but east to west still needs a lot of work going forward.

    2. Speculawyer says:

      That plus the current 50KW max speed of just about every CCS charger.

      But the placement of them will improve as we get more CCS cars. There is currently a shortage of CCS cars. The USA big 3 all should be ashamed . . . Ford & Chrysler have NOTHING. GM just has the Spark EV which is only available in 3 states.

    3. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

      Not true in California/western states, See plugshare.

  6. Darko says:

    Comparing just the number of chargers is not useful, need to compare the power dispatched. 10 Chademo chargers don’t have the same power as 10 supercharges, therefore much lower effect.

  7. mr. M says:

    As soon as tesla offers a “tesla to CCS adapter” you will know that CCS has won the fight.

    8/12 carmaker support CCS and will ramp up more models soon (2018-2020). [VW, Ford, GM, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Porsche]
    3/12 carmaker support Chademo [Nissan, Mitsubishi, Kia]
    1/12 is supporting tesla-supercharger

    1. tosho says:

      And the only one of those 12 that actually spends money on infrastructure is Tesla.
      The other big problem with charging infrastructure (except for Tesla’s) at least in Europe is that there are dozens of charger operators. And each of those operators has a different bizarre payment method for their chargers usually requiring a registration or even an access card. EV infrastructure providers have to realize that if they don’t make chargers as accessible as gas stations (customers will be able to pay directly with cash, be certain that the charger will be working and there will be enough spots so no one will have to wait) Tesla’s superchargers will win simply because of their convenience.

      1. Braben says:

        Tesla’s network will not “win” simply because it doesn’t work with any other car. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tesla switched to CCS sometime in the future once the infrastructure is mature (maybe 5-10 years from now). The superchargers are necessary right now to jumpstart things, but there is little reason why Tesla would want to run this kind of low-margin infrastructure business in the long term.

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Right. Tesla is using its Supercharger network to help advertise and sell its cars. It’s functioning in a manner similar to a retail “loss leader”, altho I’ve seen arguments that it’s actually paid for by the $2000 fee Tesla car owners have to pay upfront. (Supposedly that price is now baked into the price for a Model S or X.)

          This isn’t something Tesla will want to do forever. I strongly suspect Tesla looks at the Supercharger network as a stopgap until there is enough demand for EV fast-chargers to support for-profit charging stations, just like there’s enough demand for gasoline to create lots of gas stations.

    2. mustang_sallad says:

      You can lump Kia together with Hyundai and shift them over to the CCS side – the Ioniq was already unveiled with CCS (and Kia dealers were installing dual standard stations alongside the Chademo-only Soul EV, presumably in anticipation of a switch).

    3. Tech01x says:

      Tesla has 100% of the market right now for SAE Level 3 DC charging… it’s the only one that can handle more than 200 amps.

      Through the end of this year, it is still 100% of the market. Even after the Bolt ships, it likely can’t handle > 200 amps, so Tesla is still 100%.

      We will see if anyone ships a BEV that can take 300 to 400 amps of DC charging even in 2018 that isn’t Tesla. In 2019, Tesla’s marketshare will likely drop from 100% in 2017 to maybe 90%? But the number of the vehicles will increase dramatically. At that point, Tesla will be shipping 300,000+ of vehicles a year, everyone else added together might ship, 30,000? capable of SAE Level 3 charging.

      We will see if the Bolt is even capable of charging above 70 kW when plugged into a 100 kW EVSE or if supports the upcoming CCS revisions.

      1. SparkEV says:

        You’re talking about peak power, but usuable power is average over some interval, say up to 80%. Teslas have huge charge taper. This is one of few negatives I see with Teslas. Charge taper means you design things with peak power in mind that seldom gets used, which is waste.

        You can find Tesla charging profiles through google and Tesla forum, also an example and elaboration of my point at my blog, “sparkev is quickest charging ev in world”

        http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2015/12/sparkev-is-quickest-charging-ev-in-world.html

        If Bolt can charge like SparkEV where peak power is held to 80%, even 70kW average could be comparable or better than Tesla in terms of energy added. That assumes Tesla3 will not improve upon S in terms of taper so we’ll see.

        1. Tech01x says:

          Your SparkEV DC charging is irrelevant because the range is too short. You shouldn’t be DC charging at all.

          1. SparkEV says:

            Why shouldn’t 80 miles range EV be DC charging, and why is that irrelevant? If anything, this should motivate Tesla to design it better for better charging instead of having huge charge taper.

  8. QC says:

    Global standards would be best. The main categorization should be split between home/office (slow) chargers and long distance (fast/superchargers)

    1. Speculawyer says:

      That ship sailed long ago.

      Apparently we can’t just “all get along”. :-/

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Hmmm, yeah, we still don’t even use the same type of everyday plugs to plug our electrical appliances into the wall socket, in the U.S. vs. Europe. Asking for a universal EV charging standard may be “a bridge too far”.

        But hopefully it’s not asking too much for everybody driving an EV to be able to use any public EV charging station with nothing more than a simple adapter on the plug.

  9. Chris O says:

    The Supercharger standard is definitely leading as the output is there (120KW+), the infrastructure is there and the sales are there factoring in Model 3 reservations.

    The other standards are haphazardly rolled out by different third party providers offering different terms, typically implemented at 50KW which is not enough to charge the next gen 200 mile EVs in a reasonable time.

    So basically obsolete and in need to be replaced by a more future proof standard capable of delivering at least 150KW and further upgradable.

    We’ll see how the CharIn initiative pans out…

  10. Mike says:

    Future sales will make an interesting change, if Nissan continues to lag and Model 3 ramps up

  11. Mich Fin says:

    More important than the number or cars or plugs available to them is how they’re placed. Tesla has placed them along travel routes with clear planning so that people can get from point A to point B efficiently. While the others are randomly placed and often not working. I believe CCS will eventually win out now that Tesla has joined them.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Tesla has joined a CCS organization in Germany because, apparently, Germany is moving to mandate CCS chargers at all future installations of EV public chargers… which would include Tesla Superchargers.

      That doesn’t necessarily indicate Tesla is moving to support the CCS format in other countries.

  12. Pete says:

    I think Nissan will also go to CCS in Europe and in US. The presentation slides to IDS show 100 kW charging. That should be not possible with CHAdemO or ? Wikipedia says its limited to 62 kW.
    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/collections/advanced-technology-tour

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        The limit isn’t “outdated” if a higher charging rate exists only on paper or only as a demo, and nobody ever builds a public CHAdeMO charge point that charges faster than 62 kW.

        “In theory, there’s no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.”

        1. Counter-Strike Cat says:

          EVTEC does in fact have already sold many faster CHAdeMO chargers. They might not be all at higher power now, but they are made modular and can be upgraded at any time, when the demand shows up.

    1. Jeffrey Songster says:

      I am glad to have had CHAdeMO for the past few years… but don’t really feel like we need to be religious about the physical plug going into the future… the multi cable CCS and CHAdeMO works fine… and ultimately think the Nissan cars should ADD the CCS to the J1772 that they offer. More flexibility not less.

  13. DonC says:

    Hopefully none of them. Stupid plugs. Give me wireless charging.

    For plugs probably CCS. Non-proprietary standards usually win out and CCS is the only non-proprietary standard. Note that CCS and Tesla charging share a protocol. With an adapter CCS vehicles can use Tesla chargers (like the i3 can use Tesla destination chargers) and Tesla vehicles can use CCS chargers.

    1. Speculawyer says:

      Meh. I hope wireless is provided to you as an OPTION.

      But personally, I can handle the whole 5 seconds it takes me to plug in and I prefer the greater energy efficiency.

      1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        A cable and plug has another key advantage: one plug multiple parking spots. This means that:
        – we can park inside or outside our garage, depending on the weather, and still plug in
        – if we had a visitor with a plug-in (maybe one day things will change) we wouldn’t have to move our car to allow them to charge
        – in a parking lot with a public charger, the charger can be used by more than one parking space; it helps sharing; it helps overcome ICEing; it helps overcome other bad parking

        1. DonC says:

          Fair point but as a practical matter I can’t see many scenarios where it would matter. It’s also not as if “sharing” a charger hasn’t come with its own set of problems.

    2. Tech01x says:

      At 1,000,000 BEV’s on the planet, you would be good with wasting an average of 1,200 GWh a night in order to avoid the burden of plugging in?

    3. Braben says:

      The Tesla superchargers almost certainly require authentication by the vehicle, so I don’t think it will be possible for non-Tesla vehicles to use them with a simple adapter. The destination chargers are a different story (they are basically just J1772 EVSEs with a Tesla plug).

      1. DonC says:

        Yes, all CCS cars could use Tesla destination chargers and all Teslas could use CCS chargers. CCS chargers use authentication as well, just a different method.

    4. Someone out there says:

      Wireless and wired serve different purposes. Wireless is for slow charging at places where you normally park your car for long periods. Feeding 100+ kW to a car wirelessly would be crazy!

      1. DonC says:

        Wireless charging can already do over 200 kW, which is getting pretty close to double Tesla supercharging.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Someone out there said:

        “Feeding 100+ kW to a car wirelessly would be crazy!”

        Hmmm, kinda like they said in the early days of railroading that nobody could travel in a train faster than 20 MPH, because it would suck the air out of your lungs? 😀

        I daresay it won’t be that many years before feeding 100 kW+ to an EV with wireless charging will be quite commonplace.

        1. mr. M says:

          i thought there are already buses charging at 350kW wireless?

          Ok, i searched and found a 500kW “wireless” charger. See this company: “http://heliox.nl/electric-bus-fast-charger-systems”

        2. Skip says:

          That statement is crazy, sorry, seeing that almost every horse can run 35 mph and could so even in those days. The fastest horse being 55 mph! Loads of fables in the world but the need for an I.Q. above 126 is mandatory these days to keep from being sold swamp land!

    5. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      I think wireless charging is indeed the future of EV charging, but I think there will always be a need for an auxiliary charge port for those places which don’t have dedicated EV wireless chargers installed. Not everyone is gonna pay to install one in the floor of their garage, nor is every apartment owner gonna install them in every stall in the parking lot.

      In fact, properly placed, a single EV charging post can service up to 4 parking stalls. That’s gonna be much, much cheaper for parking lot owners to install than a charging coil buried under the pavement in every single parking stall.

  14. Speculawyer says:

    The genius of the Tesla system is that by combining 200+ mile range cars with a high-speed DC fast-charger network, their charging system does not have to become ‘dominant’. 98% of the time, you will charge up at home overnight and that will handle your daily driving needs. The Supercharger system is only needed for your rare long multi-hundred mile driving trips.

    But it really does show how nighttime at-home charging is really critical for EVs. Apartments & condos need to start installing chargers.

    1. TomArt says:

      Agreed.

    2. SparkEV says:

      If you make it free or pre-pay for unlimited use even month to month, people will clog up Superchargers and usage will go up drastically. Free is powerful incentive to waste an hour at Supercharger rather than spend few bucks at home. I suspect the problem is less severe with $70K car like S. But with $35K car like 3? OMG! If Tesla has free or pre-pay charging with 3, I probably won’t get Tesla.

      I just got through waiting at DCFC 3 out of 3 last two days; they we’re all Leaf with 30 minute time limit. One was 98% with 15 minutes left to go. Others weren’t nearly as bad, but still over 50% at start. Why use DCFC to charge slower than their peak L2 speed and have others wait when it’s 90% already? Because it’s free!

      1. TomArt says:

        Given the cost of electricity, at least here in the US, “free” charging is a laughable motivation – only a few penny-pinching, penny-wise/dollar-foolish people, who have the option to charge at home, would camp out at a supercharger a few times a week instead of plugging in at home.

    3. Braben says:

      Well, I disagree. If Tesla wants their cars to have the same flexibility as ICE cars, they are still far away from providing sufficient coverage. While traveling between major metro areas works quite well, there are still many places you can’t conveniently get to without the risk of being stranded. There are also reports of congestion with hour-long waiting times at popular locations:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3yebu9/15_car_long_queue_at_teslas_tejon_ranch/

      This will get even worse once the Model 3 comes out.

      In the long term, a non-proprietary infrastructure is the only way to solve these issues.

      1. Mike I says:

        The beauty of Tesla’s strategy is that they make their cars “omnivorous” but make their stations proprietary. So, if there are standards based stations available nearby busy SuperChargers, Tesla drivers can just divert to the standard chargers.

        1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          Correct, though I would not use word “beauty” here but “ugliness”. This strategy fragments already tiny battery car market and hinders development of common charging network, just like gas station network. You don’t any such “what plug do I need” headache when you buy gas car.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Braben said:

        “There are also reports of congestion with hour-long waiting times at popular locations:”

        Correct me if I’m wrong, but those reports of hour-plus wait for Supercharging only happened on the busiest traveling holidays of the year; namely Thanksgiving and Christmas.

        Now, that’s not to say those should be ignored. After all, the average American driver only takes 3-4 long trips by car per year, so if two of those are on Thanksgiving and Christmas… then it’s a serious issue.

    4. DonC says:

      Not a good point. Only true for those people who own or rent someplace with a plug. Most people don’t have that.

      The CCS charging being installed by utilities in CA makes this clear. The chargers are to be located not along interstates but near dense population centers.

  15. TomArt says:

    Well, I’d say CCS will win, simply because this haphazard agglomeration of third-party options are reinventing a pretty poor wheel that Tesla already nailed, but whether out of pride or sheer ignorance, no other automaker bought into it.

    The best and cheapest product often does not win, because markets are no more rational than the people that participate.

  16. Cosmacelf says:

    Tesla will never give up its standard, so CCS will never “win”.

    Right now, today, there is only one manufacturer that supports TWO fast charging standards in their cars, and that is Tesla. Soon Tesla will also have a CCS adapter.

    And Tesla has a very fast response team to fix chargers that are down, the others not so much.

    So, going forward, if you want the best fast charging coverage, buy a Tesla. It is as simple as that.

    1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

      Adapter is no way a proper support. It is lame band-aid. It is a hassle to use and costs significant money.

    2. Counter-Strike Cat says:

      Where is the proof of a Tesla CSS adapter? Show me a photo of it!

  17. tosho says:

    1) CHAdeMO – is dead! It is only 50kW and many of the already installed chargers can’t make even that. So the big numbers of installed chargers mean nothing.
    2) CCS – has a lot of industry support but no one wants to put real money into it. Sorry but talking and “initiatives” with not much more than a website don’t mean much. And again most of the existing CCS chargers are way below the 150kW maximum.
    3) A very big problem for both CHAdeMO and CCS is that there are dozens of small operators. It is very difficult to find reliable information on charger locations, which chargers are actually working, how many kW they are and how they can be accessed. Even the big sites like plugshare.com have a lot of outdated and inaccurate information on them. And those registrations and RIFD cards that most operators require are simply idiotic. Why should I register in advance, wait for a RIFT card, and even give my credit card number and pay in advance when I will use a fast charger only a couple of times a year.
    4) and now to Tesla – all their chargers are 120kW. All you need to do to access them is to have a Tesla and to show up at the charger. There is clear and up-to-date information on where they are. Tesla is maintaining and extending the network actively.

    I do think that CCS will win but only because Tesla will switch to it and hopefully install CCS stalls on their Supercharger locations. And, at lest in Europe they could make their proprietary plug use CCS directly.

    1. Speculawyer says:

      Chademo will probably die outside of Japan.

      CCS will grow but it is taking way too long.

      I think Tesla will always have a proprietary system due to their “free for life” business model. But they’ll probably build a CCS adapter like their current Chademo adapter.

    2. Counter-Strike Cat says:

      Repeating the 50 kW cap lie again and again doesn’t make it true. CHAdeMO can be upscaled to whatever the manufacturer implements.

  18. Really hate articles like this that proclaim standards are critical, when no one standard exists! For CHAdeMO and CCS Combo … which were designed to support 65-125 mile (100-200 km) PEVs.

    I expend new installs of each standard to decrease in next 3-5 years as 180-250 mile (300-400 km) extended range BEVs become mainstream. This new generation of BEVs will require more reliable, more user friendly and a quicker process. Just as DVDs and Netflix streaming did not exist in the VHS/Betamax era; we will see new standards evolve into existence prior to 2020.

    Most likely charging in the future will be via simple 2-wire DC cord with wireless digital communications between the charging dock and PEV.

  19. John says:

    There are so many factors other than just the raw numbers. Tesla is ahead of everyone else in this area simply because it placed its network strategically to enable long distance travel nationwide (U.S.). No other company has done this. There are some efforts now to finish the West Coast Electric Highway, but there are still huge gaps, and many of the chargers are only 24Kw, and there’s no one else making a concerted effort nationally.

    Tesla had a vision and a strategy to make it a reality, and now we are seeing the benefits of that, and the drawbacks of all the others that didn’t.

    1. Braben says:

      Tesla is ahead because they run a proprietary system. It’s always easier to build something if you don’t have to work with others on standardization. But I doubt Tesla’s plan is to keep running a proprietary network forever.

      1. Tech01x says:

        More accurately, the others blocked standardization. Then they settled on an unusable standard. Which leaves us with no L3 charging standard other than Tesla’s.

        1. Braben says:

          As always, it takes two to tango. Tesla could have done a lot more to accelerate standardization by participating and bringing their experience into the process years ago. Instead they made PR statements about their patent portfolio. But with them joining CharIN that seems to be changing now.

          1. floydboy says:

            “Done more” like what?
            Offer up the ‘secret sauce’ that shows how they do it?
            Maybe offer complete utilization of the network itself, provided you’re willing to chip in?
            It does take two to tango, but Tesla can’t force them to dance.

            1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

              Nobody forced Tesla to use a plug in NA that was incompatible with existing standard ones. It was possible for them to use standard Chademo or CCS and add their proprietary protocol on it. They have done something similar in Europe. It is their business model – walled garden where everything is proprietary and incompatible, and customers are locked to their overpriced superior (or advertised as such) services & add-ons generating extra profit for company and keeping brand exclusive. Very similar to Apple. It may be ok and fine for you as a customer, but it is just as it is.

            2. Braben says:

              What “secret sauce” would that be?

              And BTW, standardization does not mean that you have to give away your IPR. Usually there are agreements in place to license the technology for fair terms (FRAND).

              Getting involved early would also have given Tesla the opportunity to influence the standard to their own benefit. Perhaps CCS would even be compatible to their chargers today.

          2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            I don’t understand why people keep posting this nonsense at InsideEVs. Is this just ignorance, or outright Tesla bashing?

            Tesla participated in the talks to establish the CCS format. They only withdrew and designed their own standard when they had to put the Model S into production, and the CCS group still had not (at that time) established future standards for higher kW charging.

            In short: the CCS group dragged their feet so much that Tesla was forced to go it alone with the Supercharging format. How is that Tesla’s fault?

            1. Braben says:

              “Tesla participated in the talks to establish the CCS format.”

              News to me. Source?

              To my knowledge CCS was launched by the “gang of 7” (Audi, BMW, Ford, GM, Mercedes, Porsche and VW) without any involvement by Tesla until they recently joined CharIN.

              1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

                CCS evolved out of the SAE J1772 format. Quoting Wikipedia:

                “On January 14, 2010 the SAE J1772 REV 2009 was adopted by the SAE Motor Vehicle Council.[8] The companies participating in or supporting the revised -2009 standard include Smart, Chrysler, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Tesla.”

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

  20. Priusmaniac says:

    If the CCS really want to compete they should at least go to 300 KW instead of only 15 KW more than the 135 KW of the Tesla superchargers. CCS should also indicate big signs to indicate the location of its chargers.
    Of course and that’ even more important they should have the cars that can charge at high power.
    Tesla has the cars, the 135 KW chargers and the signs that clearly indicate them. By the way they also have the beautiful design, which is always an extra pleasure.

  21. Leptoquark says:

    “CHAdeMO leads, but now limps without broad support from the other manufacturers (outside Japan).”

    Well, there is the Kia Soul EV, which is Chademo.

    The various standards are an unfortunate result of not having a standards committee create a standard initially, as happened with SAE J1772. Hopefully, some clever entrepreneur in the proverbial garage, will engineer adapters that will allow interoperability. Tesla has it’s Chademo adapter (will a CCS adapter soon follow?), and it’s patents are after all free to use without a license…..

  22. When it comes to charging … there are billions of opinions on standards, but little data on which types of charging stations are being used.

    Of note both the fleet of Model S’s (Tesla) and LEAF’s (Nissan) will each accumulate over 1 Billion miles each in 2016. With ~10% of miles being charged at public DC stations this means both Tesla and CHAdeMO are enabling over 100,000 PEV miles per network per year!

    Reference:
    100,000+ ModelS and 200,000+ LEAF vehicles each driving over 10,000 miles per year.

    I challenge EV Charging Standards Associations to routinely provide reports on the number of kWh of energy that their membership partners deliver each year. After all a standard is only of value if it is being used! 🙂

    1. Braben says:

      The numbers look impressive … until you compare them with the number of miles driven by all cars and realize that EVs haven’t even really started to make a dent yet. It’s very early in the game and the opportunity for standardization is still wide open.

  23. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

    “Which DC Fast Charging Standard Will Become Dominant? CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla?”

    As I understand it, the CCS charging format* has established forward-looking specs for higher kW rates, which means faster charging. Apparently CHAdeMO has not, so you can forget CHAdeMO. It will rapidly become obsolete as larger battery packs in plug-in EVs becomes the norm.

    And Tesla’s charging format will never become the standard so long as Tesla insists that any auto maker who wants to use their chargers has to provide financial support for the network. I’m not saying that it’s unreasonable for Tesla to insist on that. I’m simply saying, as a practical matter, that it’s not going to happen. Tesla has a vested financial interest in supporting the Supercharger system, as 100% of their cars are plug-in EVs. Other EV makers, not so much. A recent article here said 3% of Nissan’s European market is EVs… and other auto makers, even less. There is no rational reason for legacy auto makers to pay money to support a network for such a tiny fraction of their product.

    So going forward from this moment, CCS is the only viable choice for an actual charging standard.

    There are two ways that could change:

    1. A consortium of EV makers gets together and hammers out a better standard (one that doesn’t use such big, awkward plugs); one that looks forward to charging fast enough to provide 300+ miles of charge in 10 minutes or even less.

    2. The government in a major market (U.S. or EU) mandates a standard for EV charging. Actually, China has already done that, and arguably China is already the #1 market. But whether any first-world countries will adopt that format as their standard remains to be seen.

    *Not a “standard”. There is no “standard”… that’s the problem! Just competing charging formats.

  24. Brunurb says:

    This may be a bit unconventional, but I say we get the porn industry to help choose a standard. They were instrumental in the eventual choice of VHS over Betamax, and Blu-ray over HD DVD.

    Don’t ask me how this would work exactly…..

  25. Skip says:

    To buy five DC chargers an place them every fourty miles from Santa Monica pier to New York harbor costs nine million dollars. This does not include the installation cost. The land is basically free because you can get grocery stores, Starbucks, pharmacies, restaurants, hotels and install them free that way. If global warming were truly real Obama would donated this $9 million from the government in the form of a grant and have these installed overnight there’s no pollution of of any kind, no EPA involved it’s all clean but they don’t do that because this whole electric car thing is a scam. It’s a panacea for people that believe in global warming to keep everyone happy. This country gives $9 million away I would imagine at least every nine minutes and never once has anyone said well let’s put chargers in around United States so people can actually go somewhere. Aren’t the Democrats the People’s party? I mean for God sake, even Hitler put in the autobahn. He didn’t wait to see if cars went 140 or 150 miles an hour before he put the autobahn in.
    Wake up and smell the Democrats kids before it’s too late, this is a country solely based on lies!!!
    Look up agenda 21 and read what that’s all about it especially look at the maps they do not want people leaving cities that’s why all these pumps as it were her only in cities. They couldn’t stop tesla from putting his own money in and making stations that would’ve made a big poop blah And drawn attention. Now this may sound like a conspiracy theory but it doesn’t take anyone more than a second grader to figure this out.