BYD To Begin Production Of New High-Energy Density Battery In 2015

3 years ago by Mark Kane 28

BYD Qin

BYD Qin

BYD battery test

BYD battery test

According to Shanghai Metals Market, next year BYD Auto will begin production of new higher energy density battery cells.

News comes from board secretary Wu Jing-sheng cited by China’s Securities Times.

The new cells still will be lithium iron phosphate type.  However, BYD will add manganese to the mix to gain probably 10-15% more capacity.

One of suppliers of new cathode material could be Dow Energy Materials (DEM), which offers a lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate cathode material (LMFP).

Well, improving LFP will rather not bring a breakthrough.  However, it’s swell to see battery progress and potentially lower weight for BYD cars.

Source: Shanghai Metals Market via Green Car Congress

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28 responses to "BYD To Begin Production Of New High-Energy Density Battery In 2015"

  1. Big Solar says:

    10 to 15% is good. Same physical size battery could get you about 25% farther.

  2. DaveMart says:

    BYD are doing one heck of a job and are close to cornering the electric bus market with thousands on the road right now, which can only push costs down.

    Their Qin also seems to be both popular and well designed.

    Moves by the Chinese Government to make 30% of government orders for vehicles alternative fuel/electric can only bring a huge order base to Chinese manufacturers as there are no prizes for guessing who will be first in the queue.

    Governing a nation of over a billion people must mean that there are huge numbers of Government vehicles, and with the rapidly expanding car use per person staggeringly that presumably means something like the entire size of the French vehicle market just for civil servants and so on!

    Sometimes I almost think that Warren Buffet may be a shrewd investor….

    1. sven says:

      “BYD are doing one heck of a job. . .”

      Not so fast. The jury is still out with regards to the reliability of BYD’s buses.

      And why is BYD using diesel-powered heaters on their otherwise emission-free buses? I wonder how the emissions from BYD’s diesel-powered heater compares to the emissions from a Euro 6 compliant diesel bus with its DPF (diesel particulate filter) during the winter months.

      http://insideevs.com/byd-electric-bus-travels-746-miles-24-hours/#comment-509103

      1. DaveMart says:

        Fair enough.
        I was just going by the information to hand.
        Poor execution is always an option, as for instance the Leaf in Arizona.
        They have thousands of electric buses on the street though, which is hugely more than anyone else.

      2. Mikael says:

        That is basically small kinks, nitpicking and little emissions compared to the emissions reduced.

        Any reliability problem they will surely iron out. And if it’s one driver on one bus there is no chance of knowing if it’s one bad bus or a bigger problem anyway.
        But please update us if you find out more stories and problems. Maybe they even have a Tesla-situation on their hands.

        And I can’t imagine that you couldn’t order the bus with a ethanol heater or something like that which burns cleanly and is a renewable fuel and/or use electric heating for most parts of the year even in colder areas of the world.

        1. sven says:

          My post wasn’t clear. I’m actually more concerned about the particlate matter than CO2 emmissions from the deisel heater, especially in urban areas. It’s my understanding that the Euro 6 regs and the new DPFs tremendously cut down on the particulate emmissions from diesel vehicles to practically nil. I was just wondering if BYDs diesel-powered heaters emitted more or less particulates than a Euro 6 diesel bus. A while ago, I was surprised to find out that a 2-cycle lawn mower or weed wacker has an order of magnatude more emissions than a modern ICE vehicle. It’s not even close.

          In the city where I live, NYC, they are testing at least one BYD trasnit bus. I’ll have to find out the route and chat up the driver about the reliability of the BYD bus.

          1. Mikael says:

            I can’t imagine the diesel heater being anywhere near the emissions of a Euro 6 compatible diesel bus.
            First of all it is used a lot less than the engine in a diesel bus and all the energy used in it goes toward heating.

            And for the second part burning diesel at optimal conditions and without compression is very different compared to having it combust inside a diesel engine. You are supposed to get basically a complete combustion with almost no particulates.

            But I’m no expert, but you have a start for your research at least 😉

            Anyway, it would still be smarter to use an ethanol heater. Clean combustion and a renewable fuel.
            I hope you talk to the driver(s) and the people in charge of the test run in New York and ask them to demand an ethanol heater for eventual bus orders.

      3. Cavaron says:

        Burning diesel or gas is very clean, much cleaner than cumbustion. A diesel heater is great for cold regions like norway. Heating a bus with electricity is, well, not very efficient (remember – large doors open every 5 minutes or so on a 150 mile trip, even a heat-pump can’t do much here).

        1. sven says:

          I agree with you that a fuel-burning heater is way more efficient than a heat pump, but I disagree that diesel heater burns as clean as an natural gas, ethanol, or propane heater. In thirty years I’ve never had to clean out the flue/chimney on my natural gas boiler. But my neighbor who has a fuel oil (diesel) boiler has to clean out his flue/chimney every two or three years, otherwise it gets completely clogged with soot (particulate matter). If it wasn’t for CARB requiring zero emmissions for BEVs, more car companies would add an ethanol heater to their BEVs to preserve AER during winter driving as Volvo has done in it’s BEVs in Europe.

          1. Mikael says:

            Burning natural gas for heating at home? It’s time for you Sven to go green and replace it with something fossil free. 🙂

  3. Mikael says:

    One of the world leaders in EV’s does it again. It’s hard to be anything but impressed with BYD and their efforts.

    I would love it if they started to sell the BYD Qin and BYD Tang in Europe/US.

    And I’m almost forgetting about the BYD Denza…

    1. kdawg says:

      I’m not sure how popular a Chinese car would be in the US.

      1. Mikael says:

        I know the US are afraid of foreign products but I’m sure you will be able to learn how to handle that fear, just like the japanese and korean cars have gained parts of the market in Europe and the US.

        Especially if it’s a fairly low price PHEV SUV, assuming it does well in the safety department like crash tests of course.

        1. kdawg says:

          It’s not so much foreign products. Or even Chinese products. We buy a lot of both. It’s Chinese cars that will be an issue.

        2. TomArt says:

          Yeah, it has nothing to do with being foreign – it has everything to do with being made in China. It’s probably lead-lined and made entirely with BPA plastics…”Made in China” = junk in the USA.

          By contrast, Camry and Civic are always at or near the top of the best-seller lists nationally, and the only luxury domestic brand that is given any credit at all is Cadillac. If you want people to sit up and take notice, then you drive a BMW or Mercedez or Audi or Maserati, etc. Lots of those around…very vew Buicks, it seems, and Lincoln is practically invisible.

          1. kdawg says:

            Where I live, I’m surrounded by Buicks & Lincolns and rarely see a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi.

            1. TomArt says:

              Really? Then you must live in the Rust Belt or Heartland. The East and West coasts are chock full of imports. I live in the DC metropolitan area, and when you walk down the street or through a parking garage, 5 to 6 out of 10 vehicles are Japanese or Korean, 2 to 3 are European, and the balance are US brands. And when it comes to luxury, you will see the occasional Buick, a modest amount of Cadillacs, and you really have to hunt to find a Lincoln. There are tons of BMW and Lexus and Mercedes and Acura, and quite a few Audi and Porsche, as well.

              This is even true for SUVs, though my unofficial tally suggests closer to 50/50 between US and foreign brands. In terms of luxury SUVs, it’s almost exclusively European and Japanese, with a few Cadillacs and fewer Buicks.

        3. Spec9 says:

          The US is afraid for foreign products? LOL. How many non Japanese cars sell in Japan?
          How many non Korean cars sell in South Korea?
          How many non German cars sell in Germany?

          I’m pretty sure the USA is more open to foreign cars than any of those markets.

  4. Spec9 says:

    Nice. A good thing about these BYD batteries is that I believe they are less toxic than the chemistry that Tesla is using. I hope BYD can continue to increase the energy density while keeping the batteries largely nontoxic.

  5. Paul Govan says:

    But will we see these cells in affordable long-range EV’s outside of China sooner rather than later ie. before 2017-18.

    In the Daimler-BYD Denza for instance ?? Remember: Daimler has circa $1 billion invested in Tesla – so how keen will they be to see 200 mile/ charge BYD-powered EV’s beat Tesla and the 2017 Model 3 by 2 years ?? Jeopardizing their billion dollar Tesla stake ?

    1. DaveMart says:

      Daimler is not about to annoy the Chinese government, even indirectly.
      No way are they going to attempt to get in the way of a part Chinese firm.
      China is the biggest market for some German car firms, and Mercedes must be there or thereabouts.
      Weight counts, and Daimler has much more than a $1 billion stake in China.

    2. david_cary says:

      FWIW – Daimler didn’t invest $1 billion in Tesla. They probably invested $100 million. Sure that is worth $1 billion now but it isn’t like they invested that amount. Different psychology at least. Tesla is still a competitor and MB would like to crush it like a bug – despite the $1billion.

  6. Jouni Valkonen says:

    I hope that new batteries are as durable as previous BYD batteries so that there is no compromises needed. Typically, when the energy density of batteries is increased, it lowers the costs as it is needed less batteries — provided that individual cell will have approximately the same cost.

  7. SolarStorm says:

    Hi All,

    I realize this is not the right place for discussing investments (or is it??), but does anyone know a good forum for it? I’d like to invest in BYD and have looked into different approaches (direct, ADR, etc), but would like to discuss this with those who have gone this route before. I assume some folks visiting this site are potentially BYD investors and was hoping for some pointers.

    Regards.

    1. Jay Cole says:

      I like to dabble from time-to-time. These days your best bet is just to buy the ADR (as opposed to direct in HK (1211)), in this case symbol is: BYDDF – go ahead and spring for the $10 fee, (=

      1. SolarStorm says:

        Thanks Jay! Yes, I was leaning towards ADR as well. Will charge ahead on Tuesday AM:-)

        1. Jay Cole says:

          No problem, good luck!

  8. Insn says:

    Byd has an energy density between 87 and 107 on its current LiFePO4 batteries. Increasing density to 150+ with current battery infrastructure implies that the battery will increase in capacity by 45%, but it’s possible the new chemistry will be more unstable and require heavier housings. BYD has 17% of battery pack weight tied up in non-cell weight, Nissan 33%, and Tesla 40%. With linear scaling, BYD will reach 80% of Tesla’s current battery density, putting BYD in range to compete with Tesla.