Woz Buys A Tesla Model S Over Chevrolet Bolt, Cites Supercharging Ability As Main Factor

DEC 16 2016 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 107

Woz and Janet proudly showing off their new Tesla Model X on Facebook

Woz and Janet proudly showing off their new Tesla Model S on Facebook

Apparently, Woz (Steve Wozniak of Apple fame) can’t make up his mind. Just as we expected, the Chevrolet Bolt will not suit his long-distance travel needs. However, not too long ago, Woz was enamored with the Bolt EV and made it public.

"Woz" In His Tesla Model S that Elon Musk "convinced" him to buy recently

“Woz” In His Tesla Model S that Elon Musk “convinced” him to buy

The Chevrolet Bolt is, in fact, now available near the Wozniak residence in California. However, they aren’t making the switch after all. Janet, wife of the ex-Apple exec, actually purchased a Tesla Model S for him. Perhaps an early Christmas present?

He has shared in a previous social media post that his wife is a big factor in the decision. They weren’t ready to give the Bolt an “A+” before driving it for awhile. The couple enjoys road trips and are frequent “guests” at the nation’s Tesla Supercharger stations.

Added to the Supercharger situation (or the Bolt’s lack thereof), the Bolt takes much longer to charge than Tesla’s vehicles. Right now, the Bolt is limited to a 80 (or 50 kW) kW charging rate.

As the new Chevrolet model takes the roadways, and the product is scrutinized by the automotive press, developments will unfold. For this reason, Woz has not thrown in the towel completely. GM is already underway on the vehicle’s second-generation offering, and it will likely come with autonomous capability, and hopefully deal the charging concerns will be addressed. For now though, Woz realizes that Tesla can’t be beat for road-tripping.Woz admitted:

“I’m still considering the Bolt. It had a lot of things nicer about it than the Tesla. But I’m concerned about how it would work on our favored road trips. So far, Tesla’s the only game in town for that.”

Woz has often referred to Tesla as the “biggest disruptor in the current marketplace.” However, the brief stint of positive press for GM was just another boost to the growth of the EV segment.

Source: Electrek

Categories: Chevrolet, Tesla

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107 Comments on "Woz Buys A Tesla Model S Over Chevrolet Bolt, Cites Supercharging Ability As Main Factor"

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I guess rich people don’t have to care about their vehicle’s reliability. Just have the chauffeur bring the Limo to pick them up.

That was a TOUGH NO BRAINER decision …l m a o …why would anyone buy a Bolt…. l o l ..if they can afford a Tesla…So Silly…

Certainly, if you can afford a luxury $120k car, why buy a regular 40k. That pretty much is the case everywhere, not just EVs.

Everyone on this site seems to assume everyone else’s use case is the same as their own use case. Multiple comments here profess that. Hmm, let me count the ways the Bolt is better even though I could afford the X if I really wanted to: 1. It fits in my downtown neighborhood condo parking spot (deal killer for all Teslas that can be bought today but the roadster, which has too few seats to work for my family of 3). 2. It fits in a lot more street parallel parking spaces in surrounding neighborhoods (see also #1). Bonus for the fact that it’s much less likely to get sideswiped because it sticks out into traffic – who wants to deal with insurance and repairs? 3. In case I haven’t made this point, when making a right, I can get around cars stopped at red lights much easier in Bolt, saving time (did someone mention that the S and X are both f’n huge cars – see also #2). 4. It doesn’t draw attention (I know that’s a supposedly a minus for everyone, but again, my use case, not yours). 5. It’s not a cop, thief (valuable personal possessions assumed… Read more »

+1

Very well said.

But I am going to insist that any EVs that are slower than a Camry is too slow for anyone. =)

Camry SE V6, $30K, 0-60=5.8 sec, 5-60=6.1 sec. This is yet another reason why I was harping on Bolt’s lack of performance for price.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-camry-se-v6-road-test-review

The base Camry is $24K and 0-60=8.5 sec. EV costing similar should be quicker than that. Unfortunately, only SparkEV qualified with new Volt also if you consider post subsidy price.

What we are seeing here is the reality about most EV fans…there are a few diehards for the generic EV cause, but most quickly become fans of “their choice”. More specifically, the EV car sites are really little different than a BMW, Camaro, Corvette, Porsche, Mustang, WRX, etc. car enthusiast site. Indeed, as time has passed I can already see the change in the Volt and Tesla sites. They may have been all about the cause of electrification in the early dyas, but now they look a lot like any of the ICE “car guy” sites I have frequented for years (complete with the requisite bashing of the “other car makes”). Welcome to car guy fanboi sites folks…come on in, the water’s fine. 🙂

You speak my mind, Malevolence. That were the reason I lease the bmw i3 and am planning to replace it with the Bolt.

Shill long and prosper!

There is no reliability data on the Bolt yet, so one can’t yet make a purchase decision based on it.

What IS known, is the lousy ‘fast’ charging speed of the vehicle. And that’s why GM lost a sale.

Expect more lost sales…

Woz Up, has wised up.

To be fair, he said there are a lot of things he likes about the Bolt, only that Teslas are more capable for road-tripping.

Well, a price difference of about $80k matters to most people. 1%ers, no so much.

I believe the difference in price between the base Bolt and the Model S is $31 k. But yeah, a large price differential.

Can’t say as I’ve ever actually priced one, but the only guy I know with a model X paid over 120k. Guess he got a couple of upgrades 😛

“I believe the difference in price between the base Bolt and the Model S is $31 k”

Small correction:

“I believe the difference between the MSRP of the base Bolt and FULL RETAIL Price of the Model S is $31k”.

Not the choice that I am going to make, but I cannot argue his decision. He picked a great car.

When price isn’t a consideration … of course price is a consideration for most.

That’s why the Bolt is so amazing.

True. It is a lot of car for the money, but if you can afford the best why not get the best.

I still say a used Model S85 is a great alternative to the BoltEV. Yes it’s a tad more but I got into mine for 51K bottom line after tax and license….and I have unlimited supercharger access. Dual chargers, panoramic roof, 21″ turbine wheels, air suspension.

I did the same thing and my model S – 85 is like new and great

You’re not figuring in all the government rebates from buying new though. The Bolt here where I’m at in California would qualify for $11k back from Federal, State, and the air quality district. So you’re talking about a $20k difference in price.

Dan,
That’s why I said it was a tad more:)

It’s a good alternative for a lot of people.

Not for me though. I just don’t want to drive a car that is that large. It’s annoying.

Also these used ones are used. And while I’m not whole hog against used cars I have plenty of friends who owned early Model Ses and I know they are not well built or reliable.

Later ones are a lot better but of course are a lot more expensive.

unlucky,
the later ones are more reliable?? You mean like the Model X? LOL

I’ll take an older S that has the bugs out thx.

Observations:

1) This in no way diminishes the Bolt just because one buyer chose once EV for that buyer’s specific personal needs. With EV’s, Your Mileage WILL Vary based on each owner’s needs.

2) While Woz is indeed a very intelligent and tech savoy individual, he is also known to endorse products for compensation the same as a sports figure endorsement. If LeBron James is seen eating somewhere else besides McDonalds, that isn’t some explicit dig against McDonald’s.

3) We have yet to get real world charging numbers from the Bolt, with an actual graph of things like when the charge begins to taper, etc. While I’m sure Woz made his decision on the best available information at the time, we have yet to quantify what the actual charging delta is between the two vehicles. The Tesla will be faster, but how much faster has yet to be quantified in detail.

4) Woz has no budget constraints.

WWWWWWWAAAAAAAASSSSSSSUUUUUPPPPP Wit WOZ….that woz a no brainer.

Either he’s married or the Tesla sales folks are VERY friendly. 🙂 I suspect the former so he should buy both an S for him and a Bolt for his wife/low key travel.

Dig the plate!

Sort of illustrates how important proper quickcharge support is for consumer acceptance. Bolt is not quick charge capable (unless one qualifies 90 miles in 30 minutes at non existent 80KW quick chargers as quick) and GM has no interest in getting involved in any infrastructure for Bolt. That’s how you know Bolt is a compliance car.

Ahh the “compliance car” dig. The godwin’s law of EVs. Once you bring that out, you’ve lost the argument.

When you call the Bolt a “compliance car”, it merely announces to everyone that you don’t know what the term means.

It’s a ‘Second Gen’ (>200 mi range) Compliance Car. Terms can certainly evolve with the market that created them. For example…

Does / is the vehicle:

Charge faster than 100 kW?

Offer multiple Battery Pack Sizes?

Offer Dual Motor Configuration?

Come with an AutoPilot-Comparable Safety Suit of hardware and software?

Seat at least 5 Adults?

Have a base MSRP of $35,000 or lower, before subsidies?

Produced in numbers of over 100,000 units a year?

No in every case? Then it’s merely a longer range Compliance Vehicle.

I would say your definition of a compliance car is way different than mine.
My def:
– only sold in CARB Section 177 states. If not, no ZEV credits for you!
Simply put, a compliance EV is an EV that is sold strictly to allow the automaker to sell non-EVs in CARB S. 177 states. All of the items you list are not a hallmark of a compliance car and most ICE vehicles don’t have either–autopilot, AWD, etc.

Yup. People just make sh*t up. Some gas bags say Teslas are compliance cars since they sell ZEV credits to meet compliance for other companies. When you twist the meaning to demonize other EV, all EV could qualify as compliance cars.

Simple fact is, compliance cars are only sold to meet compliance. There were few compliance cars in the past like FitEV. But today, only Fiat 500e qualify as compliance car and no other.

+1

Anon said: “Terms can certainly evolve with the market that created them.” Yes, but no one person — including you — gets to decide when the definition of a word has changed. If you can get enough people to agree to use a new or different definition, then we can agree the word has acquired a new meaning. But just using a word arbitrarily to mean anything you like, as Humpty Dumpty did in Alice in Wonderland, merely means you fail to communicate whatever you were trying to say. A “compliance car” is one built in low numbers, and with no intent of making a profit, in order to comply with CARB standards. So, Anon, when you say… “Produced in numbers of over 100,000 units a year?” …then that has nothing to do with any actual compliance car. I would seriously question that it’s appropriate to use the term “compliance car” for anything produced in more than ~5000 units a year. And so far as I know, the highest sales of any PEV outside China in any year was the Leaf, which sold 60,000 in one year. In short, you’re trying to redefine the term “compliance car” to mean every… Read more »

100,000 units/yr would exclude the vast majority of ICE cars sold in the US. Only the top 25 or so models (out of 150+ models) would count.

The median price of a brand new ICE car climbed past 32K this year. 35K would mean that pretty close to half of ICE cars wouldn’t meet this criteria.

There is only one company offerning 100 kW charging, which tapers off to less than 100 kW about half way through charging. But even that company doesn’t meet the rest of your criteria.

When just half these criteria are applied, not a single EV meets this standard.

No, there is zero consensus behind the idea that every single EV being sold in the US is a compliance car.

The Only thing in common the “lol” Bolt has with the Tesla is that they are Both EV’s.

Well, and they both are the only volume produced cars that are members of the 200+ EV club. So there is that…..

It’s a compliance car until GM offers it outside OR and CA.

But I don’t think I’d hang my hat on that term because GM says it’ll sell outside those states 3 months from now.

Musk is chucking right now I’m sure.

Musk won’t be Chuckling for long if LUCID “Air” starts to gain ground..That was one of his EX Model “S” Head Designers that is now heading LUCID….Check it Out!

How a new car company didn’t even start building it assembly plant yet but plane to produce cars by end of 2018 ?

Source: http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lucid-Motors-unveils-new-electric-car-to-10796760.php

“Lucid plans to start building its cars in 2018 at a $700 million factory the company will construct in Arizona.

Lucid has not yet revealed precisely how much funding it has received, but Crunchbase estimates the startup has raised $131 million to date. A Lucid spokesman said the company will probably need to raise more money next year.

Luxury electric cars are certainly an expensive business. Tesla has recorded only two profitable quarters so far. And Faraday Future — another luxury electric-vehicle startup, based in Southern California — already appears to be facing a cash crunch, having paused work on its Nevada factory in November.”

Musk actually wants GM to make MORE Bolts. He’s calling on GM to make 300,000 to 500,000 Bolts per year:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/11/not-shockingly-tesla-ceo-elon-musk-criticizes-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-rollout-operations/

I didn’t mean it in terms of sales, but more in terms of high profile sales.

As to Musk comments about rollouts, he should stick to his own knitting. Let him do it his way and GM do it theirs. So far one of them is on time and the other is still just talking.

That looks like the s.

Yeah, the photo above seems to have the wrong caption. That’s almost certainly an older photo of the Model S which Woz already owned; presumably the same car in the smaller photo further down.

You can see the white one is the refreshed model s with the batt czy plates.

Anyways, if you got millions in the bank, a Tesla is a no brainer.

I live in a @#&!ing state with 3 DC fast chargers (2 of them Tesla) and I would buy the Bolt.
It’s not like Tesla’s will be affordable any time soon for the American Peasant class. It will be years before the model 3 appears.

Years before the Model3 arrives? It was 2 years between the unveiling of the Bolt in Detroit at the Auto Show, and you think it will be 2 years before the first Model 3’s start Delivering, too? Don’t forget, GM says it will be June 2017 before the Bolt EV finally makes its full USA only roll out! Tesla has a goal of (Much Higher Volume) production deliveries beginning on July 1st, 2017! Plus, we know over 300,000 reservations exist for the Model 3, and 3rd quarter financial discussions sugest as many as 500,000+, and Elon says the first years of production is sold (reserved, anyway). Since GM said they could ramp up to as many as 50,000 per year of the Bolt EV, even if Model 3 reservations list lost 73,000 to GM, they would not all be filled before Summer, 2018! It would take GM 7+ years to deliver enough Bolt EV’s @ 50,000/Yr to cover just the first few weeks of Model 3 reservation demand @ 373,000 last confirmed! Nope, GM will have to get a lot more commited to beat that! Dealer EV Sales Training & Awards: Sales Person with the Highest Scores in EV Training… Read more »

“It (the Bolt) had a lot of things nicer about it than the Tesla.”

Considering the Bolt is half the price of a Tesla, a pretty strong endorsement! Despite Woz not buying a Bolt.

I wonder if all the Tesla fanbois that called Woz a traitor, sellout, whore, and GM-shill are now all back to loving the Woz?

I don’t seem to recall many Tesla aficionados calling Wozniak such derisive names, but YOU seem to do a fair bit of it!

bro1999 said:

“I wonder if all the Tesla fanbois that called Woz a traitor, sellout, [CENSORED], and GM-shill…”

No, I think that’s just you, dude. I don’t recall reading anything so crass and ugly directed at Mr. Wozniak in any InsideEVs comment… until yours.

bro:

“traitor, sellout, whore, GM shill…”

You just made that up. How clever of you.

Check out the TeslaMotorclub forum. Lots of people disowned Woz when he said nice stuff about the Bolt. Lol

And people said there would be no cross-shopping between the Bolt and the Model X! 😛

Wise choice especially for long distance travel. Supercharging is just one aspect, autopilot makes a big difference in driver fatigue because it takes over the micromanaging parts of driving and allows focusing on overall traffic situation and looking ahead. We used to switch drivers on our typical 400 mile trips and now we don’t have to at all. Feels like half the distance driven. And having a nice big windshield and six seats certainly is also a plus as is all wheel drive in the snow. We put almost 12,000 miles on since May. Loving it…

LFAO!

The Woz as a technical guy is a smart man indeed. At twice the price, or even half the price, Tesla has an enormous advantage at this time over all other PEVs in this metric.

Ans all the serial Tesla-haters who were celebrating Woz before are probably the ones who are pissed off bro1999.

Well, bro1999 seems to be rather unhappy with Tesla in general and particular unhappy with Tesla fans specifically, regardless of conversational topic.

If price is not a concern, I’m not sure what about the Bolt would be better than the X. X would win in entry/exit ease, comfort, storage, seating capacity, forward visibility, fast charging, tech, autopilot, speed, range, audio quality, luxury.
Bolt better in efficiency, but what else?

Well, the results are not yet in, but GM cars have a pretty good reputation for reliability these days. The Volt 1.0, in particular, is known for its exceptionally good reliability.

Sadly, the same doesn’t seem to be true for the Volt 2.0, and of course GM has farmed out the Bolt’s entire EV powertrain to a new and untried auto parts maker, LG Electronics’ new automotive division.

But I think even most Tesla fans will admit the Model X has more reliability problems and build quality problems (e.g., misaligned body panels) than most cars, so it’s entirely possible the Bolt will be more reliable.

>>> Well, the results are not yet in, but GM cars have a pretty good reputation for reliability these days. The Volt 1.0, in particular, is known for its exceptionally good reliability. <<<

2017 Chevy Volt reliability rating from Consumer reports
Source: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/chevrolet-volt.htm

"First-year reliability of the redesign has been well-below average."

Well-below average is not "good reputation"

GM makes more than one car.

HN said:

“First-year reliability of the [Volt] redesign has been well-below average.”

Is there any good reason why, when quoting from my post, you omitted my comment about the Volt 2.0 not having the same excellent reputation for quality as the Volt 1.0, when you were posting about that exact subject?

Looks to me like you’re just trying to create an argument even when you agree with what I posted.

The Rolls Royce 102EX would no doubt be much more comfortable than the Bolt as well

So might be a Honda Accord.

He’s got enough money to buy one of each EV in existence.

Yep! He Da Man!

Oh man, now only a 29,999 annual sales projection?

On a serious note I call BS; he ALREADY KNEW the long distance situation prior to now…”a lot of things nicer about it than the Tesla” like what? He already owns the Tesla so price isn’t an issue; smell like a “I’ll throw GM bone” comment…He only rejected the vehicle after seeing it so most likely scenarios:
1) Musk convinced him (again)…Citing supercharging is quite brilliant, doesn’t insult the Bolt itself and inspires an increase in EV charging…
2) Being a bigger guy, didn’t find it comfortable…
3) Wife said no…

“Oh man, now only a 29,999 annual sales projection?”

I know right?
The LG Bolt will sell fine.

Aw, what a cute couple! (For their age, at least.)

While the Bolt compares well in many areas, supercharging is a big advantage for Tesla. Kudos.

I think the Bolt EV is the car that is pushing the boundaries of the BMW i3, what with ‘Normal’ back doors, about double the range of the 33 kWh 2016/2017 models, and about 40+ miles more range than the 33 kWh i3 Rex! Bolt EV also puts some pressure on the 30 kWh Nissan LEAF, with more than double the range per charge, possible much better battery management and longer life, and maybe has better looks and space arrangements than it too! But, Bolt EV better than a Model S? That does need Woz to explain in a bit more detail! Even thinking it is better than the Tesla Model 3, is just taking the boxy hatchback as ones key metric for ‘better’, and we already know the Model Y will follow and be built on the Model 3 platform! I figure once Elon is confidant the Gigafactory is fully able to handle Powerwall, Powepack, and Model 3 Sales Volumes, he will unveil the Model Y! He estimated that the Model Y alone would sell up and over 500,000 units a year, but since he only figured 50,000 to 60,000 reservations on the Model 3, on March 31st, 2016,… Read more »

“But, Bolt EV better than a Model S? That does need Woz to explain in a bit more detail!”

I’m not Woz but I can offer my reasons.

The Bolt has Android Auto and Apple Car Play. (I don’t care. I just want a USB slot to plug in my MP3s and a way to play them randomly.)

The Bolt can be set for strong or weak regeneration. (I usually prefer weak, but it’s nice to have the option.)

The Bolt has front wheel drive. (I prefer this, but perhaps the majority don’t.)

A hatchback has more versatility than a sedan. (The Model S is a hatchback, but the Model 3 isn’t.)

The Bolt’s rear seats have much more headroom.

—————–

I see the Model S as a too large, too powerful, gewgaw laden monstrosity that I would love to have if I could afford it.

Between up to NY and back to FL, and a whole lotta LONG day trips for my bike rides on rail trails, I managed to put 10K miles on my X in just 6 months. It has been a dream, with only ONE issue concerning a faulty door actuator, which was quickly replaced by a visit from a road ranger. Now back in FL driving my 2017 Volt, having to shut my own doors…MANUALLY…how pedestrian 😉 I agree with Woz reasoning 100%. Until the Model 3 is out, I will recommend the VOLT to those who want to drive (affordable) electric. Plugshare shows the PATHETIC non Tesla DCFC coverage in NYS, while a drive in any of the cardinal compass headings provides AT LEAST one Tesla SC station. It is not even close. Florida isn’t near as bad as NY for DCFC, but then I remind myself that each Tesla SC has SEVERAL stalls. …and then there is that business about every car maker but Tesla pinging on the new administration to roll back gains in fuel efficiency. I am not convinced that GM is really behind its Bolt; I hope to be proven wrong. I have reminded people of… Read more »

If you have the ca$hola, the why the hell not?!?!?!?

If the SC was a better fit for their driving needs then so be it.

For the LG Bolt, it reaklly won’t need an
SC, what it really needs is an AC L2 10KW charger.

I’m not sure why anything lower than 10KW is even still being deployed on new EV’s……..lol

2 things:

1). The old single charger “S”‘s wouldn’t L2 charge at any faster than 8 kw in public, due to being limited to 200 volts @ 40 amps.

2). 7.2 kw isn’t so shabby, especially when considering the BOLT is being built DOWN to a price. Like the spark EV, I fully expected a COST-REDUCED BOLT would charge at 3.3 kw (and possibly after the BOLT is out for a time – they will ‘pull a VW’ and come out with a FEATURE REDUCED model: Incandescent lights, and 3.3 kw charger with the cost reduced GOLF EV)

Maybe GM could bring back the Spark EV in a year or so, with 120 miles range per charge, for just about $22,000 or maybe $19,995 post $7,500 Tax Credit?

Even with just a Tax Credit of $3,750, such a car would be a pretty good seller, fit much lower budgets, be a great 2nd car for EV City driving, give them lots of CARB credits to keep selling their Suburban’s, etc!

Better would be to have cost reduced Bolt by having 3.3 kW L2 (from Volt) and smaller battery (maybe 30 kWh). That’d be cheaper than bringing a whole new car to market. They could probably sell it for $25K even without subsidy ($18K with subsidy) like today’s SparkEV price but bigger and more powerful.

It would be interesting to know the cost differential between a 3.3kW charger and the 7kW charger. I was assuming that they put the 3.3kW charger in the Spark because it was a common part with the Volt, but if they are already putting 7kW chargers in Bolts would it really save much to go to the 3.2kW charger?

While I agree GM is quite penny-penching, there isn’t any money to be saved in reducing the charging speed. They’re not really going to make two chargers, so all you do is software limit and and hope to make money getting people to pay an upgrade fee.

It’s not worth it. They’ll find other things to cheap out on.

Please explain why your accounting expertise is superior to VW, in that they have already done everything I’ve said with the EV-GOlf.

Actually, GM is already purchasing/purchased 3.3 and 3.6 kw chargers since they use them in the VOLT, ELR, and Spark EV. So one would think this would be an even more compelling change.

No they didn’t do what you said. The car was offered first in Europe with 3.3kW.

Creating a new config, testing, etc. just as a downgrade (lower revenue) is difficult to make money on if you are only selling a small number of vehicles.

VW didn’t do this, they had already tested that charger in the car in Europe.

Selling a Bolt with a 20 hour charge figure isn’t going to raise sales enough to make up for the costs of developing it.

The point is, they decided later to sell the car in the states, and a change had to be made to the charging jack at a minimum.

You are claiming its a big deal to substitute cheaper bulbs and a cheaper, smaller charger that they purchase from 3rd party suppliers anyway, or that NISSAN was completely crazy in offering different trim levels for the Leaf.

Since the car doesn’t use this device while moving, there is little ‘safety compliance testing’ required for it.

Drank a few too many last night, eh? You can’t NORMALLY in a right mind think like this?

Why does this article make me think of “The Man Song”? (sorry Woz)

https://youtu.be/t7Y0I91rubg

Well, the later X’s are probably somewhat more reliable than the initial ones, plus the “X” is more in line with his “Stature”.

And it would be rude for those happily married to turn down gifts from their spouse.

Now, like most Buffalonians, I have to count my pennies – therefore, the BOLT looks more compelling to me. I’m just pissed that the BOLT is being sold CHEAPER almost everywhere else.

As I indicated above, I recommend you check plugshare for NYS DCFC before you execute a Bolt purchase. Outside the NYC/Albany corridor, it is pretty bleak for any non Tesla that wants a fast charge.

I checked this out wrt to the usefulness of the Tesla chademo adapter and was disappointed. I was unhappy with my new Volts meager 3.6 kw charging, only slightly upgrading from Volt 1.0…but now I think about sitting there and watching my X charge up at over 300 mph, comparing it to my opportunity charging on the Volt getting me back just 10 mph. I seriously doubt I will go out of my way to deal with that anymore. Fast charging is the ONLY way to go and GM’s lackluster approach in this regard really has me UN-excited by the Bolt…plus, my wife HATES its appearance. She has threatened me with harm if I ever try to show her another image of a Bolt.

Tape it on the window over the sink every time you do the dishes. It will grow on her….

*grin*

I’m pretty sure Bill Howland is quite aware of the lack of chargers in his area. He has made notes of it several times.

I do 99% of my charging at home. I like DCFC but with 200+ miles of range it’s not going to come into play more than a few days a year. For the $750 DCFC port price I could probably just rent a car when I need to go further.

Why do I want to sit there and watch a car add 200 miles in an hour when I can sleep in my bed while it charges up at 25mph instead?

Dump the PHEV and eliminate your range-extender anxiety. Having range is better than opportunity charging any day.

I guess you can promise yourself you will never duplicate the trips I made within the last few months that dictate gasoline or supercharging and would have made the Bolt frustrating. In October, I took my daughter and 2 grandkids to see the fall foliage in the Adirondack Mountains. It is 87 miles from my house on Lake Ontario to the Utica Supercharger. I stopped there on the way from and on the way back to my house. I did a 200 mile loop out of Utica into the mountains. The total for the day was about 400 miles of driving. I could have done it in my Volt…WITHOUT anxiety (but that car stays in FL). I did it in the X WITHOUT anxiety and little extra charging time (an hour or so total, I think). The Bolt …yeah…that would have been charging while I slept IN A HOTEL and made it a two day trip…no thanks. There is a 60 mile long bike trail in north central PA. I decided to divide the trail into thirds, with each getting progressively further from my house. The first trip required a bit of a stopover at a restaurant that featured Tesla… Read more »
You’re bizarre. One second you complain about watching a Volt charge at 3.6kW, oddly reticent to put gas in the filler and now you’re a big fan of putting in gas. So why did you complain about the charging if you know your Volt can fill at a rate of about 400 miles per minute simply by using gas? Yes. I’m aware of the limitations of the Bolt. You don’t need to go on paragraph after paragraph to explain it to me. Yes, I’m willing to accept the limitations. I can rent a car if I want to take a trip it can’t take. Calling the Bolt’s DCFC crippled is to stretch the term to the breaking point. Unsuitable for your trips today? Maybe. But then again apparently your vaunted Model X had you hoping for a buildout too. The lack of a DCFC in that location didn’t stop you from buying it. I don’t get your 48 amp charging comment. If you got 30 miles in 3 hours you weren’t charging at 48 amps. And if your car has 48 amp charging there was no 80 amp option for it, instead 72 was the other option. It’s not hard… Read more »
I wrote up my response to the GROUP of people who might be reading, not just you. If you don’t like ‘paragraph after paragraph’, I suggest you understand that I described just TWO destinations that might give people pause before plunging into a Bolt purchase. And I, and a few others, have stated that it is a mistake to provide an OPTION for DCFC…in large part, for the resale market. It’s kind of like my neighborhood in FL. The house that DOESN’T have a swimming pool is the one that stands out and has an eviscerated resale value. Except, in the case of the swimming pool, it is CLEAR when one is not present. I expect too many unsuspecting used car buyers will be ignorant of fast charging until it is too late. The only bizarre thing I discuss is when I used to go out of my way to get back 10 mph while charging up the Volt. I knew at the time that most people did not have the patience or the will to avoid gasoline that much. Now that I have watched the X tell me I am getting back 300+ mph, I have a perspective about… Read more »
You’re right. I did misread your mph statement. I have no idea where you are coming from on the rest. You are saying to me that you weren’t addressing me? You directly said I would have to promise myself to give up 3 trips you spoke of. At least it appears to be 3 to me. You say it’s two, but you say “first, second” and then talk of a final leg. So I took it as 3. Either way, that is you speaking directly to what I said. To act as if I don’t make sense answering as if you meant it to apply to me is ridiculous. If I were to not get the $750 DCFC then I could still take all of those trips, several in exactly the manner I explained when I said what the $750 DCFC would go to. And the other, as I mentioned, would be easy even on AC charging. 230 miles in the morning, 3 hours AC at 25 mph and you have 300 for the day. No DCFC needed. You say you should get the DCFC for resale purposes? Great, you do that. Why you say everyone should have it for… Read more »
flmark: I’m not ordering the CCS option if I purchase a bolt, therefore, It doesn’t matter to me whether chargers eventually exist in my area, as I’m not going to be using the car for extremely long distance travel. I’m mildly interested in having at least a few 6 kw public charging stations available within 300 miles of my house. As I say, if sales disappoint – perhaps GM will come up with a cost reduced Bolt. In addition to the cheaper 3.3 kw charger that GM must already purchase (or 3.6 kw – no real difference between the 2 – one will go 15 amps and the other 15.75 (I know, I’ve tested the VOLT2 I rented), and using incandescent lights, they could also save money on the navigation which I have no real interest in, nor do I need any autonomous features. This is merely taking a page out of VW’s playbook as they have reduced the price of the E-golf by doing these things, to pick up the economy minded EV buyers. People who want to pay a few thousand more buy the regular Golf EV. Non-negotiable to me is the 60 kwh battery. I could also… Read more »

By incandescent lights I presume you mean halogen headlamps?

The 6.6kW charger was never a $1800 option on the Leaf. The only models which had an option of either speed only upgraded the speed when you also got the CHAdeMO port.

I don’t think GM will alter the basics of the car if making a cheaper one.

They might change the headlamps (as you suggest). They might take off the passive locking. Maybe the heated wing mirrors. I think most of any price drop would just come from a price drop. Much like the Volt got at a point. They surely have already planned for what happens after the $7500 rebate goes away. They are just packing in extra margin because they think they’ll sell every one they make anyway.

No kidding – really?

There is no reason to believe X reliability is a problem any longer. It is a meme at this point.

The Tesla Model S is my favorite.

But I also love that little Chevy Bolt, even without its own nationwide charging network. Pam Fletcher and her team created an affordable version of the Tesla for people like me.

I don’t understand all the constant vitriol and arguing between Tesla and GM fans. I take delivery of my model S on Wednesday. As some of you know, I cross shopped the BMW i3, Chevy Volt, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, the Tesla model 3, model S, and model X. Every one of those cars was a serious contender. Every one of those cars has plusses Every one of those cars has minuses One size does not fit all. Competition is GOOD. So yes, I’m a Tesla owner (in 4 days). But I enthusiastically recommend all of the EV models to friends. I hope you all do the same. It would be an EXTREME disservice to go around bad mouthing every EV that isn’t your chosen EV to the general public One of the things I hate about Tesla is its 1%er status. EVs have gone from horrible hippy mobiles to the playthings of the rich. But if people ask me about my car I will say “it’s fantastic. And if it isn’t in your budget did you know there are cheaper options that would work great like the Volt, Bolt, or Prius Prime?” I got a friend to buy a used… Read more »
+100 Biased viewpoints end up creating the argumentative response to my discussion above that include disparaging adjectives and incomplete reading of my text. People ignore that I start out recommending the Bolt…but I always give the plusses AND minuses…to the Volt, the Bolt, the premium Teslas and the Model 3 to come. The purists complain that the Volt burns gas, but ignore how little gas that might actually be. I think every friend of EV driving should obtain a FULLY CAPABLE (DCFC enabled) Bolt if they are going to buy one at all. We should not put hobbled electric cars on the road and by GM making DCFC optional, they have shown that they don’t get the big picture of electric mobility. I liken it to not providing ALL SEASON tires to those who have Florida purchase addresses. Might they consider that I use the car beyond its normal/average usage? Imo, a non-DCFC BEV qualifies only as a second car…and that becomes clear when people defend the Bolt by saying they will burn gas at the occasional time when its limitations overcome its capabilities. They want to buy an ALL ELECTRIC car…and then rent a gas burner…huh?? Irrational hypocrisy arises… Read more »
While you might not like the idea, you cannot say that others saying they would rent an ICE car for long trips is them being hypocritical. There are many reasons to buy an EV. Only if you trying to save every drop of fuel possible at ALL COSTS is the idea of renting for long trips hypocritical. But for many people this isn’t the case. Just as an EREV shows that burning gas can be part of your total car lifestyle, an EV can also be just a part of your total car lifestyle. Dispassionate pragmatism (your term) can mean that an EV and a gas car can be the right choice for some. Even in the presence of various Teslas. It can even mean that buying the DCFC doesn’t make sense for them. Personally I think GM should make DCFC standard on the Premier, but not the LT. There are people who just don’t need to drive that far. I have a friend who just leased another Leaf 24kWh. I tried to tell him how much better the Bolt is and he simply says the Leaf 24kWh does all he needs. He only uses it to get to work… Read more »
I will try to address both of your most recent responses to me here. Unfortunately, our language does not differentiate between a figurative ‘you’ and a personal ‘you’. We use the same language in response to a group and an individual. The closest we can get is to say ‘one should…’ and remove it from the personal you. It really is not worth all my time to address anyone on their particular uses; all of my verbiage is meant to lay out as much thought on the issue as possible- for as many scenarios as possible. You (now this IS the personal you) fail to understand your own syntax when you use the language ‘why do I…when…’ This is an argument…no one is really asking ‘why’ when they construct thought in this way. It is a superiority of their way of thinking. It invites counterpoints and that is exactly what I did. I would never tell a person that a Volt was superior to a Bolt for someone who had 3 kids to put in a backseat. If you want to drive electric, a Bolt CAN be superior to a Volt. However, for years I have been trying to be… Read more »

flmark:
Hi, could you please mention what the loss was in normal and cold weather under the ‘old’ way, and what it is as far as you know under the new way, plus mention how you think the New way is saving watts – such as any symptoms the new way is acting differently than the old way.

Thanks in advance!

I also find the GM vs Tesla bickering is both silly and a bit annoying.

In your case you mention having a hybrid Tahoe as a backup vehicle. I think a significant number of people would prefer to save a lot of money by buying the Bolt instead of the Tesla, and then use their existing backup car a few times a year for longer trips.

For me, the fact that Tesla doesn’t have any superchargers let alone service centers in any of the four Atlantic Provinces is a significant deterrent to getting a Tesla.

We’ll see if the area Chevy dealers that are equipped to service the Volt and Spark can also service the Bolt, I expect so. There are no DC fast chargers of any type in New Brunwick either. We’ll see if the province’s new commitment to EVs as part of its climate change plans changes anything.

+1