UPDATE – Nissan Responds – Watch 2018 Nissan LEAF 40 kWh Fast Charging Issues

APR 7 2018 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 150

It appears that fast charging on the all-new 2018 Nissan LEAF may not live up to the first-generation model.

***UPDATE – April 7: Nissan has issued a response (via Transport Evolved) to this potential fast charging issue with the new LEAF. Here’s the response in its entirety:

“The 2018 Nissan LEAF has charging safeguards to protect the battery during repeated fast charging sessions in a short period of time. While the safeguards may increase charging times after multiple fast charging sessions, they are important to maintaining battery life over an extended time period.”

Other Responses – Nissan Issues Statement On LEAF 30-kWh Battery Degradation

We constantly field comments related to the Nissan LEAF‘s battery. There’s a large group who insist that the lack of thermal management is a huge issue, which leads to accelerated degradation. On the other side of the coin, many believe that this idea is way over-exaggerated.

Deals – Get a used LEAF super cheap!

2018 Nissan LEAF

2018 Nissan LEAF

There are several factors that may or may not lead to both of the above opinions/theories having merit. The most obvious factor is related to weather (more specifically, average temperatures in the owners’ geographic location).

This video mentions the new LEAF’s TMS (or lack thereof), but instead focuses more on another battery issue. Actually, it’s on fast charging. Or, more specifically, multiple fast charges in a single day.

YouTuber Jonathon Porterfield is careful to say that, of course, the 2018 LEAF can rapid-charge. In fact, the first few fast-charging sessions were just fine. It was after these initial charges that the slow down began to occur.

He admits that he was recently beaten by three hours on a 400-mile road trip by a Hyundai IONIQ with a 27 kWh battery pack. Additionally, his “old” LEAF completes a 500-mile road trip faster (due to charging speed) than the automaker’s newest iteration of the car.

Thoughts?

Keep the conversation going on our Forum. Start a new thread about this article and make your point heard.

Video Description via Jonathon Porterfield on YouTube:

2018 40Kwh Nissan Leaf battery issues !

Hat tip to Brain R!

Categories: Charging, Nissan

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150 Comments on "UPDATE – Nissan Responds – Watch 2018 Nissan LEAF 40 kWh Fast Charging Issues"

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Is Nissan protecting the battery?

Protecting their asses by neutering fast charging capability of the ’18 Leaf to avoid expensive warranty claims. People thought the Bolt’s fast charging ability sucked. Lol The 40 kWh Leaf can’t even make long distance road trips quicker than a 30 kWh Leaf! That’s just sad.
https://pushevs.com/2018/03/18/2018-nissan-leaf-is-a-stopgap-electric-car/

You can’t compare Leaf, the ass end of EV charging, to Bolt. Bolt has pretty much same TMS as 2014 SparkEV, yet SparkEV can maintain close to 50 kW all the way to 80% while Bolt drops at 50%. At least Leaf has an excuse of no TMS (again, ass end of EV), but what’s Bolt’s excuse for such slow charging?

More nickel in the cathodes requires extra care.

A battery is always a compromise between energy density and power density. You can’t have the best from both worlds.

Bolt (150 kW) is capable of higher power output than SparkEV (105 kW). Strictly going by these, Bolt should be capable of 50 kW all the way to 95%+, yet I had to wait for free charging Bolt at 92% and 10 kW. It’s more than just about chemistry when SparkEV is 6.5X faster than Bolt in charging C and only 2.3X faster than Bolt in discharging C.

Could be that GM is more concerned about protecting the battery in the Bolt, which is a much higher volume car than the Spark.

Exactly. Hopefully, GM will collect enough data soon (or whatever they’re waiting on) to at least offer a better taper profile via upgrade. Now if only that could be done over-the-air, right?

Once batteries get up to 80 or 100kwh, not only are C-rates and taper better, but they become meaningless as it becomes only multi-state trips where any of it matters.

The GM Bolt ‘fast’ charging is not that fast as you point out. Look at the drops above 50%.
https://i.imgur.com/Yw3QTJJ.jpg

I suspect this will have little effect on LEAF 2 sales if most people are using it on daily drives vs roadtrips. The proof will be in the numbers/sales scorecard above in the USA and others for worldwide from their 2-3 other manufacturing sites.

The current Bolts fast charging rate is disappointing given the size of the pack and the strength of the pack management system.
But it is early days. If GM can up the Bolt charge rate to 75 kW charging capability, hopefully to at least 75% of pack capacity within a year or two, that would be helpful.
Somehow, knowing GM, I doubt it will happen, though.
Being able to get 2 hours of highway driving AER in less than 30 minutes seems like it would be enough to satisfy a large portion of the car driving public. Getting above 75 kW really is the holy grail, still, for most BEV makers, years after Tesla went there and done that.
(75/2) * 3.75 = 140 miles at 70 mph for 2 hours. Not a great speed but it gets you close to what people are probably willing to accept. If you drive in the warmer 9 months…

The 90AH BMW i3 charges just as fast as the Bolt without much taper. 22kHr+ in 30 minutes.

I just flew from Bay City Michigan to Madison Wisconsin and bought a 2018 Leaf, drove it back home (over 500 miles) using quick chargers the whole way (all but one time) and didn’t experience any slow charging issues that they encountered in this report.

Seems like this is dependent on battery temperature.
– If outside temperature is lower, it helps a bit.
– If you drive slower, it helps a bit (70+ mph draws a lot of power)

Also here in Norway, charging speed slowdowns hasn’t been reported by others than Youtuber Bjorn Nyland I think, and that was on a long-distance trip in highway speed with frequent fast charges.

Did you drive contiguously or slept somewhere? Did you take the ferry? Depending on the answers, maybe you didn’t hit the slow-downs because you didn’t fast charge “multiple times within a short period” (whatever Nissan means by that).

The BMW i3 REX solution looks better and better.
2017 i3’s 120 miles of range, and if you “code” it, you can use the gas engine on highways for that rare long trip.

or get a Honda Clarity PHEV and don’t mess with any of that.

+1

I didn’t want to deal with the i3 tires and a BMW in general.

Not thermally, but rather by limiting how you often you can fast charge it at the highest power.

I think their logic was to deliver inexpensive 40kWh model … where 99% of people simply fast charge once a day or never. In another words, it doesn’t matter to them … and quite frankly it would not matter to me either, if I was buying a city car.

60kWh model will have thermal protection/management, but it will also cost quite a bit more. That car, being rather long distance car or one-car family vehicle will certainly need it.

The never ending human dilemma … difference between need and want, right?

The only thing, I’d blame Nissan for is the fact that they were not upfront about it and rather hid it in a manual on a page which probably most people would not read.

“where 99% of people simply fast charge once a day or never”

Where did you get these numbers, aside from your buttocks?

He got it from free chargers. If you get free charge, you visit your local DCFC every day even if you already have 90% charge.

Yup, most people rarely fast charge at all.

I drive a Leaf 2013, 24kWh as my only car – 100,000 miles so far.

I guess I am on fast chargers less frequent than monthly, but when going on long trips I typically fast charge 2-5 times during a day or a weekend.

Nissan is irresponsible for releasing this car without thermo management. I know two people who bought this back in 2012 here in Southern California and both had to get their batteries replaced within 3-5 years and it was more than $8K. Simply put, these batteries will die a quick death when your ambient temperatures routinely go above 95 F and you keep your car outside most of the time. One had such a bad taste in their mouth, they never vowed to buy another electric car again and bought a CR-V. If you want to get a proper electric car for under $30K, just wait a couple more years… plenty of good ones coming out with 200+ mile range.. if not just order a base level Model 3.

Even the dinky, 8 year old i-Miev has active air cooling at least. I mean jesus.

I know of no one who paid any money to get their battery replaced. Check the warranty troll.

That warranty came later from class action lawsuit.

…and perhaps, never even see the car for two more years.

Agree with you. The 40kWh variant is not meant to be charged multiple times a day on a daily basis, for that is better the 60kWh variant.

maybe 99% of people simply fast charge once a day but same amount of people do travel long distance at least once a week

battery thermal management is important its a shame Nissan still didn’t learn the lesson

They plan on adding thermal management to the 2019 Leafs so they can charge at 100kW. Most manufacturers only added TMS to accommodate quick charging so the batteries wouldn’t explode. How many Tesla don’t have quick charging? How many Leafs and Bolts don’t have quick charging? Most Leafs and Chevy Bolts do not even have quick chargers. They charge at home.

All current production Teslas have quick charging.

No he meant the majority if thise car owners charge at home and dont need to quick charge

I wouldn’t lease or buy an BEV without DC charging ability. I think PHEVs should have a DC charge port too.

I may only need it a few times a year, but it’s very possible that 24 KW DC chargers may show up at the local grocery store and other places. That would make a DC charge port very important if the store loyalty card points can be used for electricity.

My local dealer (where I ordered my 2018 Leaf SL) has just taken delivery of dozens of 2018 Leaf cars. Their pre-order list was more than 1,000 customers long; including my order in February.

When I sat with the Nissan dealer sales rep, the first item that was discussed was “how do I intend to use the Leaf?” Here in Ontario, the dealer network is profiling the sale before processing the pre-orders. That is Nissan being up front with the clients.

My Leaf was over-estimated for delivery in June 2018 although a co-worker who ordered his 2 weeks before I did, has now taken delivery this week. So far, no rapid charging issues.

I have downloaded the LEAF owners manual from Nissan.ca and all should read it before adding to this #rapidgate media storm. Do some homework.

Nissan is protecting Nissan, Not You , Not Me , & Not The Battery! Nissan needs to do the Right thing ! Man Up/Woman Up , & Fix this Thing ! Instead of Making Lame Excuses..Nissan Needs to “STOP” taking Short Cuts and Build Batteries The Proper Way !

Btw, I Love Nissan Products and the LEAF CUV will For Sure Become a Big Seller “If” Nissan Gives it More Range Like the Kona CUV Plus + Some, Without cutting Crucial corners .

Just another reason to keep waiting for the M3, since my second EV needs to be a highway trip car.

Straight out of 2018 Leaf Owner’s Manual Page EV-20
• Avoid exposing a vehicle to extreme ambient
temperatures for extended periods.
• Avoid storing a vehicle in temperatures
below −13°F (−25°C) for more than seven
days.
• Allow the vehicle and Li-ion battery to cool
down after use before charging.
• Park/store your vehicle in cool locations
out of direct sunlight and away from heat
sources.
• Avoid sustained high battery temperatures
(caused, for example, by exposure to
very high ambient temperatures or extending
highway driving with multiple
quick charges [if so equipped]) .
• Use the normal charging or trickle charging
methods to charge the Li-ion battery
and minimize the use of public Fast
Charge or Quick Charger.
• Moderate driving.

They might as well have just added “Don’t ever plan to drive this car more than 200 miles in a day” to drive home the point the new Leaf is absolutely not a car to even attempt a modest road trip with.

You are exaggerating, as always.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

No, this time there’s merit. Just look at the list man.
The only thing missing on that list is to cover the car in a blankie when it’s cold at night and sing soft kitty to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIp77PUvLTE

Really, sing “Soft Kitty”?
You got any other suggestions?
You ever hear of “DRIVEtheARC”?

Drove the Lake Tahoe route over New Years from LA.
Only song sung during the 1K journey , “Life in the Leaf Lane”….

The 30 kWh Leaf is not what you imagine!
The Proof is in the Pudding!

Seeing I often encounter new Leaf (no plates) that charge slower than SparkEV, proof is indeed in the pudding.

Sparkie is the fast charge winner, hands down, for sure!

The Leaf does taper, so no Nissan competition here!

I have achieved 24kWh in a 30 minute session in my i3. How did the Spark EV compare?

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

I don’t give a sh|t about how YOU drive it. My comment is on the statements in the manual and how it tells you to “baby” the car…….. you warm bag of vinegar used by women on an evening in summer.

Yep, your a Manual Man, I get it now, with all your song and prance, please do us all a favor and keep driving by the book.

We will all be EVentually better off!

The point of fast charging is to be able to charge when you’re in a situation other than the times you charge at home. I.e. round trips longer than the expected range given the usual parameters. (cold/hot weather, high way speeds, etc.) This would include a road trip regardless if the length of the trip is greater than 200 miles. The point being that the trip is long enough to warrant having to quick charge. It shouldn’t matter if you have to quick charge more than 2 times during the trip. The reason Tesla created a quick charging network wasn’t so you could drive only as far as 2 charges and then you’d get charge nerfed. The same principle applies to the other EV makers. Nissan has certainly dropped the ball, because a lot of new customers will plan a road trip now that the range is OK to do that. Imagine them calling Nissan support asking why their 3rd charge is soooo slow and the response being: “well didn’t you read the manual?” My 24 KWh Leaf lease is up in the summer and as much as I’ve enjoyed it, I feel this development will make me think a… Read more »

I feel like 150 mile range still isn’t really enough for a road trip. If in non-ideal conditions (going up hill, speeding, etc.) that 150 miles can easily drop down to 100 miles. With the spacing of chargers that’s not really ideal. Also if you fast charge and only go to 80% for charging efficiency then you have even less range.

I really would consider 200 miles the minimum for a road tripable car.

200 miles sounds like a “modest road trip” to me, though I agree that since the highway mileage drops off, that sort of trip might very will still require at least two fast charge stops to complete which would be less-than-ideal.

200 miles is just a day trip, in Ontario, Canada, even for folks IN Toronto! In Northern Ontario (North if Sudbury, or equivalent), I suspect it might even be a daily drive or commute, for quite a few!

More like 300 miles, but yeah. The Leaf is not a road-trip car. It’s a great car for people like me who never do more than 250 miles in a day. It’s a big market. Heck even 24 kWh was enough, but sort of uncomfortable since it gave so little tolerance for changes in plans. With 40, that problem is solved.
If you want to do road trips, get a Tesla.

Surely nearer 280 miles? (100% when leaving home, and then an 80% recharge)

“Avoid sustained high battery temperatures … very high ambient temperatures”

What happens if the ambient temperature is high? I guess you can’t charge the car during hot summer days, especially not in hot garage. I guess owners should air condition their garages to charge their Leafs.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

……and put fans in there and sing it a lullaby “Soft Kitty”…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIp77PUvLTE

I will definitely deter those who ask me about EV’s away from a LEAF……..and I thought this was going to be a runaway hit……lol, WTF do I know!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fans do not cool ambient temperature. In fact, it’ll raise the temperature since fan motor is less than 100% efficient.

Another option is parking the Leaf in the living room instead of the garage in summer. It might be cheaper than AC the whole garage that’s not insulated.

I dread this summer when hordes of these new free charging Leafs are crawling at 2 kW using 50 kW DCFC.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Another option is parking the Leaf in the living room instead of the garage”

ROTFLMAO, you’re killin me dude!

I thought about sleeping with my SparkEV, but she just wouldn’t fit through the bedroom door.

I had a girlfriend like that once.
Didn’t last long!

Actually, with the fan all the electricity turns quickly to heat.

Some as waste heat from the less than 100% efficient motor, the rest as the fan blades and air heat from friction and then the air’s bulk motion degrades and turns into heat.

Moving air does speed up heat transfer and also increases the evaporation rate from wet things like your skin.

Nissan really dropped the ball on this one it seems. This could ruin the whole run of the car if they don’t fix it ASAP. Nissan has had a great success with the car so far but when this gets out that might come to an abrupt end. I hope the 60 kWh version doesn’t have this issue or Nissan is in real trouble!

As mentioned above. 40kWh has a price tag which no other car can touch. Yes it comes with some drawbacks. So if people take a deep breath and figure out what sort of a car they are in a market for, all would be fine.

Everybody assumes that all cars need active battery cooling. Certainly not true. The cars which need them are the ones you operate in hotter climates and plan to fast charge regularly (which really means you are using the car for long distance driving). If you are not falling into that category, you as well might pick one up and laugh all the way to your bank. or you could pay almost 10K more and get a car with liquid cooled large battery, you will essentially never take advantage of …. I know which one I am spending my money on.

The ambient temps in the video were likely in the 40-50F range.
What do you think will happen to Leaf owners trying to road trip this summer in “modest” 85 degree temps? How about 100 degrees?

Exactly.

This is a very poor showing by Nissan to put out a car in 2018 that cannot even take advantage of old tech 50 KW charging on an extended road trip.

I can’t believe they didn’t at least include active air-cooling using the air conditioner (i.e. like the Prime) to make the new LEAF more of a general purpose car.

Took the 2016 30kw Leaf out for about a 120 mile journey last week. It was about 40F deg outside. I drove around 70-75MPH. After the 2nd quick charge my battery temps spiked to 106F. Glad it’s a lease!

The third Quick Charge would have put you into the first of two Red battery temperature Bars! You would have been pushing the Temp gauge into the lower Red Line 120*F range. My 2016 Leaf Lease, loves the heat, with No Issues whatsoever!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

In CA Capitol SacOfPotato’s we average ~15 days above 104°.
Some few days it’s 110°.

I know some LEAF owners who go to the extent of lining their garage door with insulation to keep the car/battery cooler.

Yeah, inland CA, Central Valley, AZ, NV are all too hot for the Leaf. The climate is more mild in the coastal cities, even in SoCal, so the Leaf is probably borderline there.

It’s not a car for road trips. Simple. 200, 250 miles fine. You want to do 500 in a day? Don’t buy a Leaf. I haven’t driven that distance in a day since 2004.
Seriously, there are a lot of nice EVs coming out but thanks to the hassle-free supercharger network, Tesla is the only game in town for the road trip crowd.

In some markets, 78F is extreme summer heat.
If you have 100degF heat, get a liquid-cooled competitor, or wait for the liquid-cooled 60kWh Leaf.

It’s bordering on bait-and-switch if you are given the connector to fast-charge the car but then it turns out that the battery can’t actually handle it.

Even the old 24 kWh LEAF did charging better than this car according to the video. This is a regression and should be fixed.

Straight out of the Elon Musk playbook!

More like GM playback seeing how they went from quickest DCFC in C in history with SparkEV to slowest DCFC in C in history with Bolt.

Have you seen any graphs that compare the GM Bolt ( https://i.imgur.com/Yw3QTJJ.jpg ) to the Spark?

I’m aware of step downs in bolt. boltev blogspot had it 1.4 years ago. SparkEV is pretty boring; 125A to 80% (48 kW), then taper down to 10kW at 99%.

The price / long-range ability might be a reasonable tradeoff for some potential customers… If it were very explicitly disclosed and the behavior detailed in marketing materials, which it decidedly isn’t.
This is all the more so because neither the 24kWh nor 30kWh Leaf have this problem (I’ve now seen multiple reports of people who did exactly the same trip in all 3 car types), so it would be unexpected by potential customers, both previous Leaf owners as well as new-to-BEV owners.

Burying the information in vaguely worded small print in the owner’s manual is dishonest.
Sure, people wouldn’t buy the 40kWh 150mi car to do long-distance road trips every day;however, many people would certainly expect to be able to do a 400mi-500mi trip with 3-4 rapid-charge stops every month or two — in fact, there were peoplemaking comments on InsideEVs that they would now finally be in the market, when the range was officially given. Now that after the 2nd charging session the car will only charge @ 25kW, this will add hours to a day trip.

I agree that it should be disclosed better. But as an engineering trade-off, I think the car is fine, if you know what you are buying.

Nissan needs full disclosure to new potential Leaf Leasers and buyers, this is no Chevy Bolt road trip car in warm – HOT seasonal weather conditions!

I have had my 2018 Leaf SV now for about 3 months. I can confirm that this car is HORRIBLE for long trips. I bought the car in Los Angeles and drove to the Central Valley. The trip took about 2.5 hours longer than it should’ve given insanely low charging rates. I had a 2015 Nissan Leaf which always charged super fast – so I had no reason to expect the 2018 Leaf to be so different. Also, neither the sales rep at the dealer or Nissan themselves (who I reached out to after the horrible charging rates) mentioned what is in the manual – which translated says, this car cannot be used with a DC fast charge unless there is only one stop before you get to your final destination.

It’s currently a runaway hit even with the deficiencies noted. Then again, the Leaf continues to maintain the title as the best-selling EV worldwide in terms of total volume despite having a litany of issues and worthy challengers over the last seven years.

New Nissan Leaf aggressively tapers fast charging down to 22 kW, 30 kWh Leaf and 28 kWh Ioniq can easily outpace it on any road trip that requires multiple fast charging stops.
Nissan screws customers again.

That about covers it.

To be fair, the Ioniq can also outpace the Bolt over longer distances due to its aggressive charging taper and higher absolute rate.

I doubt that.

The Bolt / Ionic side by side comparison will come in time, and you will be proven, with out a shadow of a doubt, absolutely right.

That race allready happened on Roadshow youtube channel, search for:

Chevrolet Bolt vs. Hyundai Ioniq in a race around the Bay, part 1
Chevrolet Bolt vs. Hyundai Ioniq in a race around the Bay, part 2

Though that just focused on the lack of charging infrastructure..

It’s quite likely for very long trips.

The Ioniq can charge 0-85% in 25 min (that’s 25kWh, peak of 68kW!), and can travel 90 miles on the EPA highway cycle. If we assume 50 mph and no detour time, then charging+driving averages 40mph.

The Bolt will charge 0-52% at 45kW, then slow down. That’s about 31 kWh of charge in 41 min, which takes the Bolt 101 miles on the EPA highway cycle. The average charging+driving speed is 37mph.

So the Ioniq is quicker in this theoretical EPA 50mph test, and it probably has a higher optimal speed than the Bolt in the real world. Of course, the Bolt will start off with 100+ miles more range, so that’s half an hour the Ioniq has to make up with faster driving and charging, and the latter can only happen with >100kW chargers.

So it will depend on the length of the trip etc.

this is what happens when the selling price becomes the most important feature. screw that, make it right and it will sell well. sadly, for the next few years, all ev’s are bascially compliance cars. not that its a bad thing, but producing low volume ev’s, no matter how good is not the way to get new ev buyers

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Well, I’m going to have to tell my sister not to get a LEAF and just buy the Bolt!

This is pretty sad.

Lease the Leaf,
Buy the Bolt!

With Nissan, get your Lease On!
With Chevy, go Heavy on a purchase!

That is why they Rhyme!

Well, Bolt leases suck everywhere but California, so good advice.

Look at the features.

Even knowing this third-quick-charge-in-a-day limitation, and the TMS-less battery, I’m still happy I chose the Leaf. ProPilot, cargo space, price, and looks are all reasons for me to choose the Leaf. If you care little about those things, then go for the Bolt or, if possible, wait for a base Model 3.

Nissan just can’t get this car right. It’s pathetic. The lack of thermal management is critical, and crippling the fast charging just compounds it.

We’ll see if the 2019 Leaf fixes this, but Nissan may have permanently tarnished the brand name.

We love our Leafs, but we mostly commute around town and the longest single day trips we do in our 2016 model is about 200 to 250 miles when we go to the beach. If we had to go further in one day we wouldn’t take the Leaf, there are very few charging locations in Alabama. So far hot batteries temperatures have not been a problem for us. Once when it was about 100F outside I did a quick charge and it got within one bar of being hot. But after I started rolling it dropped a temp bar. I imagine if I had done another quick charge it could have gotten into the red. Like Nissan Says, avoid frequent quick charges. I have never heard Nissan say it is a car for long trips. Tesla advertises range and they have a supercharger network to support it. And the TMS Tesla uses supports multiple quick charges in a day. I love Leaf but if you want to drive long ranges I would recommend a Tesla or a Bolt with a quick charger. That’s an available option on a Bolt.

It seems that the new 40kWh is much like the 1st 2011 pack, where energy density and efficiency is valued over heat tolerance. What’re the chances Nissan would bring a second lizard pack down the line?

I get what Nissan is doing, they’ve tailored the car to the recorded driving habits of all its LEAFs on carwings or whatever it is now. A 3rd consecutive rapid charge isn’t something a lot of people do and I don’t think they’ll care (until they do). Of course that doesn’t mean that I don’t want Nissan to be grabbed by the balls and made to explain itself.

When the 40kWh Ioniq comes, this would be hard to recommend.

The 28 kWh Ioniq already outperforms the 40 kWh Leaf. Bjorn did some testing and even on a single charge run, the Ioniq beat the ’18 Leaf.

Someone did a 400 mile race between the Ioniq and the new Leaf. The Ioniq won by 4 HOUR!!!

No surprise there, the Bolt would be beaten too by the Ionic.

Had a 2011 Leaf which lost 30% of capacity in 6 years. Vowed never to buy another EV without thermal management and bought a used Tesla model S 85 kwh instead. Best car ever, will probably last another 10 years. I keep it charged to 50% most days to be even easier on the battery, charge to 70-80% on the weekends for 100-150 mile trips.

Yep the Tesla has a battery three to four times larger so it will last three to four times longer. Since the Tesla has a bigger battery it is not as deeply discharged as smaller batteries either. Battery longevity is a function of the number of charges and the depth of the discharges. Nissan does have thermal management. If the battery gets too hot the car shuts down or it doesn’t charge doesn’t it? Owners with Teslas are only reporting a 10% capacity loss after 100K miles. Thats very similar to Leaf owners loosing 10% after 30k miles. Its the size of the battery is the main factor, not TMS.

Not exactly true but size does matter.

We have 2 cars each with about 54k miles. The leaf is 5 years old, down 1 bar so 15% best guess. The S is a 70 and is 3 years old. Down 3% best guess. Age matters also.
But to claim that Tesla average degradation is 10% at 1pok miles would not be correct by surveys I have seen. Up to 10% is more like it and 5% is a better average.
But climate matters to all. Tesla doesn’t cool until a pretty hot temp, one our Leaf has probably never seen – no QC.
Road tripping with multiple QC is an unusual Leaf experience. And it should be unusual.
There still is only one choice if you want to roadtrip over 250 miles.

The race from Leicester to Aberdeen. Had already heard about it. Very disappointed indeed. It’s the lying I cannot forgive. And the price. I could still live with this car except for the price. Oh but that ugly lie. sigh

When I’ve taken my 2017 Leaf on long trips (450 miles in a day), I’ve noticed that the charging rate slows down a bit by the 4th quick charge, and drops to ~20kW max by the 6th session. I had been told by Nissan reps that the new Leaf improved on that, but it sounds like that’s not the case! My plan has always been to wait for the 60kWh Leaf and upgrade next year, though I had been a bit tempted by the longer range battery now and features like ProPilot. It looks like I will wait!

Another Euro point of view

Hope they soon make EVs that are around median purchase price ($25k as opposed to average purchase price of $30k+) that are really fast charging capable. I find it sad for a car that is already rather too expensive for services it provides ( even more so if likely low second hand value is taken into account). When I read this I am not surprised of the very slow EV revolution.

I’ve cover this issue, last month, on inside EV forum.
https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/batterygate-my2018-leaf.647/

Crippled DCFC is a major issue with the Leaf and Bolt. I have advised against purchasing these EVs with crippled DCFC.

The new Leaf’s charging performance makes the Bolt’s look Tesla-like.

Sad but true.

Keep in mind the Tesla are over 100 kW and GM Bolt does not even hit half (50) that. Per https://i.imgur.com/Yw3QTJJ.jpg

Bolt’s peak charge rate is 55/56 kW or so.

Scottf200
“Over 100 kW” is just short peak during first half of SOC for $50k+ Model 3, assuming you can try your luck and arrive at charger nearly empty.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/b440c7d0-86c7-4853-beb4-4a8f9790981a-png.277091/

Practical average is not much different from Ioniq.
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-ioniq-electric-accepts-up-to-70-kw-from-100-kw-ccs-charger-video/

There are no magic batteries in production yet. Power, capacity, low cost, longevity – you can have any of it as long as you choose only one :/

Did you notice the Tesla Model 3 is still doing
76 kW at 63% SOC
46 kW at 79% SOC
Wow, compare that to the drop steps in the GM Bolt where it is rare and short to get over 50kW at very low SOCs. Not sure I’ve even seen a chart like that.

That’s a pretty big difference in my book.

The Model 3 charges from 6% to 50% (136 miles added) in 20 min.

The Ioniq charges from 11% to 86% (93 Mike’s added) in 20 min.

Another problem with the Leaf not covered is the use of friction brake. The Leaf will use friction brake instead of regeneration.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Good to know!

It’s a lie, so he didn’t help you know anything.

Gotta throw the dealers some kind of bone! At least get those Leaf owners in once to change out the brake pads!

Regeneration is accomplished by lifting your foot from the gas pedal. For most driving applying the brake is only required below 5mph.

Not true. First, having 60 kW regen on 2900 lb SparkEV, there are times when you need to apply friction brakes above 5 MPH. Old Leaf had far weaker regen (20 kW?) at 3500 lb.

Second, what happens when the weather is warm and the car driven at 60 MPH (15 kW?) for a while and the battery is nice and toasty? You’re probably not getting anywhere near 60 kW regen (maybe not even 20 kW regen) since Leaf lacks TMS.

Not completely accurate. It will regen down to a point where it can’t anymore than automatically switch to friction brakes, but it does regen.

That was my understanding that it was a blend and dependent on the various modes.

Nissan Leaf 2018 | Fully Charged youtube review clearly points out with e-brake on it uses regen down to ~5 mph. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOJyiKy0MOQ

That’s bs and you know it!

Cow Pie Meter is showing a substantial increase in the maximum charge rate of 350 Cow-a-Plops (CaP)!

You can’t stack the padddies any higher on the hood of JyChevyVolt!

Until they release a Leaf version with TMS for the batteries, Nissan should warn drivers not to quick-charge multiple times in quick succession, like you would do during a long trip. The battery will overheat. It happened to me every time I quick charged my 2015 Leaf more than two times in a row.
Even when it doesn’t overheat all the way to the “red zone,” It overheats enough to slow down the charging to a crawl.
I am quite happy with my 2015 Leaf as a city, commuter car. I wouldn’t push it past its limits.

Nissan does warn owners to avid frequent quick chargers.

Since most leafs do not have QCs why would they want TMS? The longevity of the batteries is a function of the number of cycles and the depth of the discharges. I have never seen my Leaf batteries get into the red temperature before?

Jonathan is correct in being disappointed here in a BRAND NEW product…..

Of course, individual buyers will have to decide if they can look past this VERY BIG NEGATIVE feature of this 2018 Leaf.

But judging from many comments – it appears many prospective 2018 buyers CANNOT look past this deficiency.

Probably most prospective leaf buyers will wait until the 60 kwh model is released, and then see what battery troubles there are with THAT model – but hopefully an improvement over, what to these eyes, are the ‘World’s Worst’ EV ever made to date, a very surprising statement to be made at this late date (2018).

As Jonathan rightly is disgusted that a 2010 (EIGHT YEARS AGO) had a superior fast-charging system.

It’s not just about battery capacity as you can see from SparkEV with higher charging power than Bolt with 3X bigger battery. If 60 kWh Leaf lacks TMS, it’ll suck just as badly as current one.

Did not the early Spark EV use A123 Systems Cells, or were they all LG Chem Cells?

60KWh version will have TMS, they announced at the Leaf 2.0 launch

I think a lot of people will be willing to give the Hyundai/Kia options a serious look now. Unfortunately, they plan to produce only about 100k EVs across all models this year in total, so they’ll be able to get one about as easily as it is to get one’s hands on an ioniq EV at this point.

How many prospective Leaf buyers would even attempt such road trips in it with over 2 DC charge sessions per trip with no breaks? It sounds like hardcore BEV enthusiast idea of wasti… sorry, spending their time. Regular people use refuelable cars (or trains, or planes) for such trips.

It seems the best answer to this matter, is to at least put the simple facts of these issues into a nice infographic – showing a Thermometer, with a max/min ambient temp this Leaf should be used in; a map picture showing its initial range in a circle, and a single fast charge range in a concentric larger circle, but with a notice to take a break at this distance of 2-4 hours – to let the battery cool, or to use 32A AC charging at most!

There’s an old saying:”Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.” It’s becoming pretty clear that if you want to drive long distances at high speeds (with a/c on) and then quick charge that the Leaf is going to come up short. I’m glad I discovered Inside EVs after buying my Leaf as all the negative comments about lack of TMS might have spooked me. I’ve never had any over heating issues with my “ugly bugly” 2016 Leaf. I forgo the freeway for 2 lane highways most of the time and keep the speed down to 90km/hr (55mph). I am going to take it for a fast run with the a/c on this summer just to see what happens. I really like the car. It’s doing a great job in my application. My big disappointment in going electric is the ridiculously stupid manner in which public charging is being implemented. I’ll just stick within round trip range of the car thank you. I’m planning to trade up to a 60kwh equipped vehicle in 2020. Not for the TMS but the added range to make up for crummy public charging. Hope my 1999 Saturn hangs in until then. Hope Tesla hangs… Read more »

yup, same story with my 2015 Leaf w/ DC here.

I live 150 miles from the coast but no way I can risk getting there with critical reliance on availability of one particular DC charger at the halfway point.

SOH is still 86% and I DC to 80% every day, plus it gets over 100 here in the summer, so no complaints about the battery thermals here.

This is a disappointment for sure but this will no doubt be the second best selling ev this year….with Tesla’s help may end up being top seller. Not that many people care about this on leases.

Even the ionic has no thermal management. Quite possible. The battery life sufffers like older leaf

They all have some form of thermal management.
Hyundai’s is better than the Leaf, though it still relies on fans and fins, plus an electric heater for when it’s cold, and no liquid, which is superior for heat regulation, ala the Bolt or Model 3.
Hyundai’s is not the best but better than the Leaf, which I think we can safely say is the worst.

And yet, despite all the pro/con arguments—
“the raging success of its LEAF, the world’s #1 selling electric car.”

Nissan is adding TMS so they can charge at 100kW. I doubt it will do anything to seriously make the batteries last longer. If the current batteries get too hot they just shut down the car. it works. The function of how long the batteries last is a function of the number of charges and the depth of discharge between charges. Quick charging and heat generated during quick charging probably has little effect since most Leaf owners do not quick charge. Heck most Leafs do not even have a quick charger. Why bother with TMS if the car doesn’t even have a quick charger or get hot? Your better off not parking in the sun on very hot days.

Yesterday, I took my 2018 Leaf into the dealership because the battery overheated. After a 100 mile trip and connection to a fast charger for an hour, the battery temperature gauge was pegged to the first high level point and it only took 60% charge. This was with 80 degree F temperature, what’s it going to be like when we get 100 degree F every day? I there is reportedly 2018 Leafs that are going long trips without battery overheating but my Leaf does not appear to be one of them that can do this. I think there is also going to be battery overheating on my Leaf when fast charging after coming home from work. Who can afford sitting at a charger for two hours after work because of a hot battery? One of the things I was wanting to do with the Leaf was to take it on long trips after the Electrify America chargers get installed. I like my Leaf but now it doesn’t look like it’s going to be a practical vehicle for long trips. If the dealership can not do anything to correct this issue I’m going to be asking Nissan to take back the… Read more »

I hope Nissan is able to “correct this issue” for you, Thanks for keeping us updated, when there are more developments, in your own #chargegate situation.

I was able to Road Trip over 1K miles in my 30 kWh Leaf . Trip included only 1 Level 2 charging stop, with over 10 multiple level 3 fast charges. Never heated over the first ( of two ) red temperature bars. Tapering during fast charging, was not below 30 kW ( if I remember correctly ), when battery temperature was between 120 F – 130 F. Driving was in Central California winter temperature conditions (50 F > 30 F).

Too bad. I don’t see a Leaf in your future. I doubt if they can do anything. It’s intrinsic in their poor design and lack of consideration for real world driving in conditions where temperature varies greatly through the seasons.
Designed for low mileage, slow charging, and mild climates.

I’ve decided to hang on to the Leaf at least until my lease is up. In the report on Bjorn’s 600 mile trip he was able to charge at 26 kW even after five charge stops. That’s not great but it’s still a lot better than L2 charging speeds.

I will just have to plan for the longer charging stops on long trips. There are still a lot of good things about the 2018 Leaf even if charging speeds isn’t one. By the time my lease is up there should be non-Tesla 150+ charging stations crisscrossing the country plus a lot of different EV models with higher charging speeds.

It sucks that you’ve run into even more charging issues than that DC limit, but as a fellow 2018 Leaf owner, I agree with your assessment.

I see the Leaf as the ultimate commuter car. Between ProPilot, E-Pedal, good acceleration, and 150 miles range (100 isn’t enough for many), no other <$35k EV can match the Leaf. I'd rather live with some DC charging problems than be without any of those features.

Well, I don’t think the issue of multiple rapid charges would discourage me from buying. Although I think if that is the case Nissan should at least make this fact known to potential buyers, especially with the 60Kwh version comes out, assuming it has proper cooling. So that way buyers know that with the 60Kwh version they are not only getting more range but multiple rapid charges.

No.. Honestly, the only problem I have, living in the south, is the degradation of the entire battery pack due to this lack of cooling. So after having two of the 24 kwh versions, I won’t touch another Leaf until they have one with proper cooling.

If the 60kWh pack is really going to have active liquid thermal management, the 40 kWh version would seem like a bad idea to get unless it is a short term lease. If the 30 kWh pack degrades faster than the non-lizard 24 kWh pack, which may be related to increased power density, the 40 kWh pack may fare even worse. The fact that Nissan is at least trying to do something by limiting the fast charge speed at high temperatures in the 40kWh pack whereas they did not do that with the 30kWh or 24kWh pack could be taken as either concerning that Nissan thinks the 40kWh pack is susceptible to such degradation at higher temps that it will prompt a lot of battery warranty claims, or that they have recently found some kind of religion on high temperature and battery longevity and they are doing the bare minimum they can do for now without an actual TMS. Also, the Ionic has these sustained amazing fast charge rates, yet as far as I know doesn’t have a seriously advanced TMS (active air cooled?). What’s up with that? Are they just deciding not to worry about battery health? GM obviously… Read more »

I own a 2017 Bolt and a 2018 Leaf. Both cars have the options available. Overall the leaf is a nicer and more comfortable car but it takes up to 3 hours to charge on a dc charger on trips. I travel about 200 to 300 miles a day. I regret buying my leaf.

Hi all. I bought Nissan Leaf 2018 this year. There is 2400km on tachometer at this moment.
Until now I charged mostly/only on 50kW fast chargers, or at least 22kW chargers.

I did not have any problems until know…. My last fast charging was limited to 22kw while my battery bar indicator was very high in the red zone ….
…. but there is one big question… and I wil reveal the answer in the Youtube video. I think the answer will bring new and better view to the Nissan’s decisions regarding to batteries on Leafs 2018.
I am doing my own investigation research of battery temperature indicator – it has more than one meaning.

Finally it seems that Battery managament on Nissan Leaf is done very clever and very good. Nissan do care about battery life and its life cycles. They oblige customers to be patient to the baterries on their cars.
Finally it is good , because Your battery/car will have better value during Your car sell time.

I have change my mind about this car. I will not buy this car because of this issue.

Just the information a potential buyer needs to know – thanks

After engaging the charger cable the car starts charging immediately overriding the timers settings