Volkswagen I.D. Crozz 311-Mile Electric CUV For $30,000-ish Before Incentives!

Volkswagen I.D. Crozz

JAN 12 2018 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 118

Volkswagen promises to price its new electric vehicles (MEB architecture) competitively to assure success.

Interestingly, VW is taking a somewhat unique approach of sorts. The automaker is working a new MEB architecture for its upcoming I.D. family of vehicles, which will start with the I.D. Crozz (2020), followed by the I.D. Buzz (retro microbus), and eventually, an iconic VW hatch followed by a sedan or two.

Sadly, this is still all a few years down the pike (and that is if VW holds true to its estimates), but nonetheless, it’s certainly interesting to see what’s in store in terms of pricing. According to WardsAuto:

“Pricing will be among the keys to market growth, and VW is promising to position its MEB vehicles competitively based on each model’s interior volume. Because the MEB’s purpose-built design doesn’t have to accommodate an engine and transmission, it allows for a flat floor and a roomier-than-normal cabin. The upcoming I.D. Crozz CUV, for example, has a Tiguan footprint but the interior package of the bigger Atlas model. VW says it will be priced similarly to an Atlas – before any government incentives such as the current $7,500 U.S. EV tax credit are factored in.”

Additionally, Wards reported that VW elaborated, explaining that this new MEB architecture – and understandably the subsequent pricing scheme – is set up to account for the entire market platform across all Volkswagen Group Brands (i.e. VW, Audi, Porsche … not to exclude SEAT, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti, etc.). A rep from the automaker said:

“All our traditional Volkswagen cars will fit on (the) platform.” 

However, it was made clear that the Group’s larger and faster cars, will need to have an additional architecture since the MEB platform is not designed to account for these vehicles:

“(The MEB) is not a platform to go from zero to 100.”

In the end, what’s most important is that the all-new I.D. Crozz electric CUV will see pricing in order with the Volkswagen Atlas, which starts at $30,750 before transportation, taxes, options, and dealer charges.

Some ~$30,000 before tax incentives for a 311-mile range electric CUV with a substantial amount of interior capacity, minivan-like sliding rear doors, and a luxury-like interior is incredibly appealing. We can only hope that VW follows through with said promises.

Source: WardsAuto

Categories: Volkswagen

Tags:

Leave a Reply

118 Comments on "Volkswagen I.D. Crozz 311-Mile Electric CUV For $30,000-ish Before Incentives!"

newest oldest most voted
Linus

I wonder why they take about 40000 euro for a e-golf today

Mark.ca

$29k in US.

Michael Will

That’s the dumbed down one, the real one is $37k

Michael Will

I bought my 2015 e-Golf for $35k back in 2015, traded it in for a tesla model 3 long range with all available options a week ago for $13.5k credit towards the $60k price tag.

Loving it, performs like a model S in a smaller form factor and less bells and whistles at half the cost.

315 mile range.

Congratulations! Glad you are loving the Model 3! Not seeing many comparisons between the eGolf and the Model 3! What would you describe the change as?

Asak

Why is the expensive one the “real one”? Too many elitist moneybags posting on here…

L'amata

The Vaporware Saga goes on & on..This is getting to be like soap opra..as the EV stomach churns . Stay tuned for more imaginary EV’s from VW

KumarP

They always promise the moon in 2020 or later. Same old story.

RAV4 EV

2015, 2020……

and now we will have this 300mi $30k elect suv in 2025

John Doe

The first EV on the MEB platform will be on sale in Norway later this year..

Same goes for the Audi e-tron quattro.

Prsnep

Are you suggesting VW is not working on electric vehicles?

ffbj

Are you suggesting they are?

Pushmi-Pullyu

Are you unaware of the scores, or possibly even hundreds, of vaporware teases that VW has given us regarding production EVs over the past several years?

If we’re extremely skeptical of this latest claim from VW, then we have excellent reasons for that. “We’re gonna produce this is two years” sounds very much like just more vaporware.

As I’ve said before: I’ll believe VW is putting a new EV into production when I read that they are actually tooling up a production line to produce it. And not before!

Elbonian Engineer

When VW will be tooling up a production line for BEV’s based on the MEB you will stop shouting “vaporware”? Really?

OK! Maybe!

People are whining that Tesla Model 3 only sold a fraction of the number they talked up for December, back in the July 28th, 2017, handover event! Yet Tesla sold over 100,000 BEV’s this year, mostly not counting the Model 3! They got cut no slack, so why should we cut VW some slack, with all their promises?

Sure, we all Hope they come out competitive, but it will be harder than they think to make lots of EV’s! And remember: VW EV’s are first competition for VW ICE’s! If they make EV’s that are competitive to Tesla, they are also at risk of losing their own ICE VW Sales!

This is similar to the challenge Tesla faces with Model 3 vs Model S! Can they continue to grow Model S Sales for 5 years, while also bringing the Model 3 up to speed?

Same for the Model X! Will the Model Y take down sales for their Premium SUV?

However, either way, Tesla still wins, and so do we!

Prsnep

Why’s everything always about TM3?

Steven

Now you’re starting to sound like me.

stimpy

“Please don’t buy from a competitor today when you could wait 3 more years!”

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Please don’t buy from emissions cheating dirtbags.

dinhh68

AMEN!

bbbbb

They all do it. VW is just the one that got caught. I’m not saying it’s right but that’s how the car industry works.

L'amata

VW is building more diesels now than ever…As they BS about Building new EV’s …

Elbonian Engineer

Can you provide numbers?

pjwood1

What others did, between fraud and the environment, doesn’t hold a candle to VW.

And they’ve learned so much, with what amounts to “Save a kid in the Congo, don’t buy an electric car”.

Hauer

I am convinced VW tested a lot of competitors cars to prove just that in krder to get off the hook themselves.
Not that much did come out of it.

ffbj

F-150 implicated in another diesel scandal, emission control products by Bosch, one of the co-conspirators in VW’s Big Stink.

John

Please, show me a list of other $30k CUV’s that are currently for sale. And no, the Bolt doesn’t count.

Elooney Muskey

PLEASE BUY FROM THE BAIT AND SWITCH COMPANY. HELP ESCALATE THEIR LOSSES.

Robb Stark

311 sounds suspiciously like an NEDC number.

Meaning ~215 miles of EPA range.

“Similar to an Atlas” sounds a lot like up to $37k. But we will let potential customer think it is lower.

Michael Roberts

Yeah, if it’s more or less divisable by 31 then that’ll probably be the case, 31, 124, 155, 311 🙂

philip d

“which starts at $30,750 before transportation, taxes, options, and dealer charges.”

So it starts at $30,750 not $30,000 like the article headline says. Then taxes, delivery and dealer charges. So boost the price from invoice to MSRP add delivery and voila you are at minimum $34,000-$35,000 starting.

And they most certainly are using the NEDC range of 311 miles which means lower 200s in EPA miles. And all of this is aspirational by VW and not actual production numbers.

So in 2018 we already have a few EVs in the mid-$30K cost range that get low 200 miles range on the EPA cycle and VW will be offering something similar in 2020. Not very exciting.

John

Please do understand that NEDC does not exist anymore!

Pushmi-Pullyu

So the New European Driving Cycle testing standard is being replaced with what? The Even Newer European Driving Cycle? 😉

And if so, will it be any more accurate than the old one was? That wouldn’t be hard!

They should just start using the EPA test cycle. That seems to give numbers pretty close to real-world driving in most cases. And even when it seems to be a bit off, it’s still much closer to reality than the average for NEDC numbers!

Benedictus

WLTP: Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure

Will be the test in Europe for new vehicles. Numbers similar to EPA.

While such harmonised numbers are great for labs, it seems disingenuous that such numbers are even allowed to be advertised, without any ‘Real World’ ranges listed alongside, showing worst to best driver experiences discovered in testing, for new vehicles! That would be a ‘Coup’ for ‘Transparency’ in marketing! Not just for EV’s, but for ICE’s, as well!

jpo234

In talks VW executives in recent times used the wording “a real world range of 500 kilometers”. This suggests that this are not NEDC numbers.

zzzzzzzzzz

“311 sounds suspiciously like an NEDC number.”

The number was announced as 500 km on NEDC range, or whatever the battery technology will allow. So you can only hope for something like 500 km.

When you convert 500 km to miles, you get 310.686. Don’t assume they promised exact number just because it is not round in miles :/

Jules

NEDC is outdated in EU. Especially in 2020. It probably is WLTP with similar results like EPA.

zzzzzzzzzz

NEDC still in use even if it is scheduled for replacement.
http://wltpfacts.eu/when-will-wltp-changes-take-place/

Once Crozz ID is in production, it may get WLTP range.

Jules

Look at your link. It is outdated for new cars. So it doesn’t matter for cars like I.D. Crozz

dinhh68

VW is planning to take a 15k loss per EV to kill Tesla. Good luck to the cheaters

philip d

It might take them more than that. Undercutting price is only a piece of the puzzle.

If they don’t have their own battery factory then they are at the mercy of a 3rd party supplier and limited market supply until manufacturing can mature to meet rapidly growing demand.

This is also true for Jaguar. They both will likely be limited to 20,000-30,000 units a year while Tesla with the one factory in partnership with Panasonic will be guaranteed to have 500,000 units when the factory is fully built out.

Also I think many people make the mistake of thinking there is some limited pool of EV customers that everyone if fighting over. And if the major automakers sell 20,000 or so EVs here and there that Tesla likewise will lose 20,000 or so customers.

In reality there will only be year over year growth in demand for EVs outpacking supply. Especially now that the average EV will have over 200 miles of range and now most have comparable performance to their ICE counterparts.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“Also I think many people make the mistake of thinking there is some limited pool of EV customers that everyone if fighting over. And if the major automakers sell 20,000 or so EVs here and there that Tesla likewise will lose 20,000 or so customers.”

Yeah, all too many people see it as a zero-sum game between different models of EVs, ignoring the reality that many or most PEV sales represent conquest sales from gasmobile drivers.

A large portion of the ~500,000 Tesla Model 3 reservation holders didn’t come from current PEV drivers, that’s for sure!

Us busy and Avid EV fans should get our facts together!

What gasoholics need to start figuring an EV could work for them, is a chart: How many Miles you drive a day in commuting vs a selection of what EV’s would suit your needs (Based on Range per charge and a garage at home to charge in)! Miles driven daily down the left side; Type of vehicle currently driven across the top!

Could be another chart added to cover Charging Options vs State or Province!

Or a Chart for Renters and Condo Dwellers that can’t charge at home! ‘Miles to DC QC vs Workplace Charging!’

That idea comes from a Mini Van driving coworker, responding to a n EV announcement story I read from the web, and him starting to comment in the positive, with “I could Drive All Week on that!” (Range per Charge.) As he is not yet driving an EV, the ‘Number of days netween charges’ thinking is normal and akin to ‘Number of Days between Gas Station Stops to Fill!’ Such is the presentation needed to respond to in marketing, to allow Gasoholics and Diesel Nuts, to even ‘Begin to Think’ about EV’s! Daily Miles down the Left, Days between Required Recharges across the Top: EV’s or PHEV’s in the Grid Locations! Colors: Green = ALL EV Miles, Orange = EV Miles + Gas Miles! As such, a PHEV like the Volt or i3 Rex, could be in 2 Places, a Green Box, & an Orange Box! Add 2 numbers inside the Box: MSRP, & Post Tax Credits or Rebates; as per the Country, State, or Province it was targeting! You get a Quick and Easy view of what can work, and how much EV range you can get that works for you, or if a PHEV could do most of… Read more »
Spoonman.

Wait, the same interior as an Atlas? So it’ll have a third row?

Brian

That’d be something!

hpver

I wish VW worked as hard to show us an actual car as they do churning out press releases with dubious promises.

Vexar

That ain’t workin’! Get your money for nothin’ and your kicks for free.

CdnE90

Auto makers have in recent years focused on four areas: advertising, financing, assembly and ICE development.

None of these areas allows them to develop and produce a new product with a new powertrain. Totally outside of their core business.

All this to say: They are good at press releases and “concepts” (examples of advertising), not building new EVs. Expect more of the same from VW in the near future.

zzzzzzzzzz

hpver:
“I wish VW worked as hard to show us an actual car as they do churning out press releases with dubious promises.”

They are just following Elon lead here. Elon is much better anyway with announcements about upcoming announcements of upcoming shows of semi-functional prototypes :/ Dreams and visions is what really charges new generation, that is the thing!

hpver

Nah. I see fundamental differences. Elon is a showman and salesman with grand visions, but at the heart of it he’s basically honest and trying very hard. Already makes two top selling EVs. Admits to things like “production hell.” VW, on the other hand, was fined billions for cheating and then lying about it, and then lying again to regulators about the original lying. That bespeaks a fundamental dishonesty. I for one will not be fooled twice by it. And no, I don’t own or drive a Tesla.

Pushmi-Pullyu

zzzzzzzz continued his Tesla hater campaign:

“They are just following Elon lead here. Elon is much better anyway with announcements about upcoming announcements of upcoming shows of semi-functional prototypes :/ ”

VW is doing the opposite of following Tesla’s lead.

Tesla has never, ever made a concept car or prototype that they did not intend to put into production. Tesla also does not, as VW does, repeatedly claim it’s going to put an EV into production while having no plans for, or intention of, actually doing so.

Volkswagen is the King of Vaporware. Tesla doesn’t make vaporware at all.

Tesla doesn’t make vaporware, but even Elon has had the gonads to admit, that the Model X was a bit of a case of ‘Bloatware’, when he stated they went overboard on fancy, tricky, hard, and extreme, in their design and style departments, causing one of their longest delays, even for the prototype, leading to even more delays to production, and big volume build delays! Most are commenting on the coming Model Y design, with a simple binary thought process about seeing it with the same Falcon Wing Doors as the Model X! Some Hate the idea, and Some Love them! Few people are…’Meh! No big deal!’ It would be great if, at the Reveal of the Model Y, if Tesla was a Mature Enough Company, and had already presourced 90% of their Model Y suppliers, that they could Showcase A couple Standard Door Model Y’s, one with a Clean Roof, and one wth Roof Racks, showing a Boat or Cargo on top; PLUS, a couple Falcon Wing Model Y Samples, and one with a custom car top cargo system! Just like the Big / Small Battery choices, this would give choices for the doors! Such an approach might need… Read more »
jpo234

MEB based prototypes are on the test tracks right now. Reports suggest that they surpass the original design targets.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Typical tease from VW. That sort of thing is what has earned them the “King of Vaporware” reputation.

zzzzzzzzzz

Why do you Tesla culties so hate electric cars without Tesla badge? Hate disrupting your cult narrative about single World Savor or what?

You should be happy that world famous emission cheater “turned to good” /s and is moving to EV production for real. If you have any clue about car production, you should know that Crozz ID needs already be in validation stage, production decision should already be taken if they are talking about 2019.

But no, you still hate and want diesels only from VW. Tesla way only or no way.

zzzzzzzzzz

Anyway, 2019 or 2020 in some particular market doesn’t make big difference. More important is that it had left show concept stage and is scheduled for production for real.

Actually, as a Tesla Fan, in my opinion, I had Expected that Tesla would have made those ‘300’ we got rumors they had put in early August 2016 parts orders for, to make Model 3 Test Vehicles way back in late 2016, and start field testing them, spread around in each of the countries they are presently doing business in, plus the new countries they announced opening up, just before Model 3 Reservations began! It seems some of that took place, but later than I hoped, and seems to have been with fewer test vehicles!

However, I am aware of Auto Environmental Test Chamber Businesses that exist, that could have been used for accelerating testing, too!

jelloslug

That’s a lot of money for a render or two…

Get Real

I’m hopeful for this as it represents progress.

I think when the first big legacy OEM goes really big on PEVs it will have the effect (over 2-3 years) of forcing the other laggards to also go in big or die/be bought.

I think VW could be that company, of course so could GM although I get the feeling they are still slow walking this process a lot.

In any case, Tesla has now uniquely positioned itself to really take advantage of the shift that its efforts have really helped force by becoming the dominant player at the mid-high end.

DJ
Isn’t this what all you guys want? An actually affordable EV with good range and plenty of space!?!?! It’s amazing how many people here loathe OEMs for not having more EV offerings yet when they come out with news on future models you seem to loathe them more. Meanwhile Tesla claims they will release the roadster in 2020 and the semi around then and all you can do is shower praise on them despite missing deadline after deadline. It isn’t a shock really to anyone that can think on their own. EVs today are expensive for what they are. In the future they’ll be cheaper which is likely why so many of the OEMs are waiting to get their skin seriously in the game. They offer up some expensive models with limited specs right now just to keep things going and to gain some knowledge. I don’t actually see it as all that bad of a thing. If people aren’t buying what you are currently selling because of the limited specs and the cost why in the world would they manufacture more of them. Hopefully in a very near future the cost and spec part won’t be an issue and… Read more »
Ryan

The problem is that VW/Audi lies. They put out a new press release every few weeks with fantasy vehicles that are scheduled two to three years out. And my strong suspicion is none of them will ever ship.

The lies (sorry, “marketing”) are done in order to diminish demand for competition and marketing headspace from EV manufacturers that have actual product for sale. VW is in mortal fear of Tesla and BMW (who actually has its act together on EV tech).

So they have a net negative effect on the industry by causing consumers to wait for fantasy product.

subspace

VW is in mortal fear of Tesla and BMW (who actually has its act together on EV tech).

Right. They are trembling. Every day. *rolleyes*

Maybe this announcement is like the many others about products “two to three years out”. Maybe VW is completely unaware, or chooses to actively ignore the massive increase in EV sales around the world that is currently underway, especially in their biggest market, China. Maybe they won’t launch any new EVs. Ever.

That would make VW management complete and utter idiots, would it not? Maybe they are.

Then again, probably they are not 😉

pjwood1

…you know what they say about third generation family businesses.

DJ
Ahh yes, the lies! SO yet again they do something that Tesla does and while Tesla gets praise VW gets crap for it. I think VW deserves all the crap they got, and more, for dieselgate but it’s this nonsensical belief that they’re lying to the customer that I just don’t understand. What lies has VW really put out there? Have they missed some huge deadline of delivering an EV to the market? They currently offer the e-Golf and the other PHEVs in Europe that we don’t get here in the US but I don’t ever recall VW saying they’d have something really for us in 2017. Their mass market car has only really recently been announced and it was always a few years out, which unsurprisingly are also in line with other OEMs and look to be in line when the costs will become much more on parity.Coincidence??? I think not. If the actual goal is to get people in EVs, which means they have to be able to afford them and live with their specs, than I would think such an announcement would be applauded. I suspect that however isn’t many people’s actual goal on here but rather… Read more »
I have no problem with VW bringing out their EV’s! Actually, a bit impatient for them, too! If that Minibus EV came first, I think it could fill a space Tesla Doesn’t have, and could do better than first off trying to compete in their space, against any current or coming (Model Y) products! If it was offered as both a bus with seats, AND a Camper, that would be Wild! That said, 2 years ago, a coworker bought a Tesla 90D, and about 10 days later, over our Christmas Break at work, drove it from Toronto, Ontario, Canada, to Key West, Florida, USA, and Back, with no issues, short of one single stretch that was a bit light on Superchargers, between Pittsburgh and Buffalo! That is now filled in with one in Erie, and on this side, another between Buffalo and Toronto! Driving CCS, VW will need to work ALL their CCS Partners quite hard, to be able to make such a Trip doable in Any EV they make, even by 2019! But take Hope, Even Tesla Misses their Mark for Supercharger Expansion, by 20-25%! VW has a lot if work to do, but little Momentum, yet! Ford is… Read more »
jinjfox

Do you realize that EVERY ONE of your sentences ends with an exclamation point?
Quote- Terry Pratchett- “Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind”.

Elbonian Engineer

The car is planned to be launched by end of next year

Bill Howland

Based on the recent past, they’ll come up with another 5 year delay if too close to the release date.

I agree VW is trying to copy Musk’s MOJO, but it ain’t working.

Musk knows how to say precisely what he needs to. He might not say much, but see the previous sentence.

Whereas, German car makers (especially in their advertising brouchures) are not economical with words – in fact they talk all day but say little.

And then they confuse the german versions of the car with the one they’ll actually sell in the states.

Exactly. I say your statement is right on!!

Pushmi-Pullyu

“It’s amazing how many people here loathe OEMs for not having more EV offerings yet when they come out with news on future models you seem to loathe them more.”

Maybe you need to read the story of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” again. VW has gotten a reputation for lying again and again and again about putting EVs into production, even when they had absolutely no intention of following thru.

Perhaps VW is serious this time, just as the little boy in the story was serious the third time he cried “Wolf!” But VW has “cried wolf” many, many, many, many more than just three times.

Get Real

Technically, VW is the boy from Wolfsburg.

He he! Interesting connection! Is that the town the boy cried ‘Wolf’ in, originally?

GaryMulcahey

Yes, yes, VW cheated on it’s mpg software blah blah blah. The American auto companies have been bullshi**ng us for years on mpg. My last two new cars were made by Ford. I would say they missed their mpg rating by a third on a good day.

I think VW will be kicking some butt once they get going on these EVs. That group of auto makers(Audi, Porsche Vw etc) has more experience with electric hybrid drive than the big three American have combined. I don’t recall GM, Ford or Chrysler winning LeMans with electrical hybrid drive on board.

Mike

Imagine the “Fecal Storm” for other legacy auto companies if this wasn’t a bunch of hot air.

The magic 311 miles number is simply 500km.

The previous VW press release describes the driving range of the Crozz as ‘up to 500km’ NEDC. There is no commitment to the base model having that range.

It is also optimistic to assume that ‘priced similarly to an Atlas’ means the price of the Crozz will be the same as the cheapest Atlas. The long range version is likely to cost a lot more, consistent with the Tesla Model 3 long range option being $9000 extra.

Extracts from the previous VW press release:
The I.D. CROZZ II crossover: The driving range of the Crozz is up to 500 kilometres (NEDC) on one battery charge.

Volkswagen ID model range:
In 2020, Volkswagen will launch the compact, all-electric, four-door I.D. in the Golf segment, while launching the I.D. CROZZ in the crossover segment.
In 2022, the I.D. BUZZ – a re-interpretation of the legendary Volkswagen Microbus – will enter the market.

I saw the VW ‘Bueli EV’ Bus interpretation, in Detroit, at the NAIAS a few years back (2015, I think it was)! It was stated to have a 110 kWh battery, and a darn good range! 300 miles or so, if I remember!

I liked it then! If it was here now, no matter the price, it would sell!

Quite likely, more of them would sell in the USA than the Mitsubishi iMiEV! Maybe even more than the MB Smart & iMiEV combined!

1st off, it had lots of room, and lots of range! Too attractive items to sell in America! Too bad we wait 4+ more years for it!

jinjfox

FFS, stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JasonB

So this far better EV is coming to US market just after Tesla ran out of federal tax credit? And you are alle to get it $10 000 less? It will be interesting to see which one average Joe takes!

To be fair, VW, Porsche, Ford, MB, GM, & I think FCA, just need to replicate the Tesla Supercharger Network by then, and your answers will be clear!

Do their have what it takes to do that in 24 months? Financially? Sure! Technically? Likely! Motivated to do so? Not likely!

Could they form an EV Charging Coalition, to compete with Tesla’s Supercharger build out? They ‘COULD’, but will they?

Could VW pull a Rabbit out of their butt, and ask Tesla to let them in on the Supercharger Build out? Not impossible, but highly improbable!

Other scenarios? Maybe!

Either way, In 2 years I see Tesla having an even more pervasive Fast Charging Network, same for Destination Charging Network, and a possible new direction: adding Direct CCS access to charging, right onboard their cars, similar to what they have started for Chinese Tesla’s!

They have already said the Model 3 can be charged up anywhere in the world! That might have been a hint, or a clue!

jm

If a VW press release annouced that the sun has risen in the east this morning, I’d run outside to make sure.

Put another way: “How do you know a VW PR guy is lying? Look at his lips – if they’re moving, he’s lying.”

Some Guy

When people have a choice, they surely go electric. Look at the Smart car. Although available still as ICE (even dirty Diesel) in Germany (for way cheaper than the electric compliance version), the Smart EV had around 25% of total Smart sales in Germany in December 2017, rising steeply over the past few months.
As for VW, that 31k is without options, so basically the least cool color (they will see to it) and wheels, everything else is extra. We are talking about a company that charges 170 Euro for a USB port in the car-stereo, And you can only take that option once you have upgraed from the standard audio-equipment for like 500 Euro…
Thus, I believe it when I see it. If they do it right and go large scale production, they can actually manage. 60 kWh pack at 125 $/kWh, leaves over 20 k for the rest. VW lives on less than 5% margin. VW can build a car for 20 k, if a start-up can do it for less including battery pack (e-Go life)
(I mean, certain brands of Chinese cylindrical cells for Chinese domestic EVs have broken the 100 $/kWh barrier in Q4)

Elbonian Engineer

You don’t get a Smart Diesel any more since the 453 series have been introduced

John Doe

Do you think the Chinese cells will last as long as Panasonic/Samsung/LG?

If the quality is good, they will pressure the other makers too.

Still a way to go, before they hit a price that is really competitive. Where a customer will choose the EV because it is cheaper to buy, and not only quiet, cheap to run and no emissions.

But if they can make an EV that costs 30K, and it is usable as it is – we’re talking potential for volumes.
If you need to pay extra for AC, common safety features and end up with 40-50-60K, many will choose a regular car insted.

Someone out there

A proper car from a proper car maker, great!
Also note that VW is building its own charging network so what are the Teslemmings going to whine about then?

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Also note that VW is building its own charging network ”

Where?

Brian

Across the continental US.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/

Pushmi-Pullyu

“Some troll out there” said:

“…what are the Teslemmings going to whine about…”

The only ones whining here are you and the other two Tesla hater cultist trolls. It’s sad that you losers are so obsessed with Tesla that you can’t find anything better to do with your time.

Quebec 100% EV

DEAR VOLKWAGEN:

PUT A 48KWH BATTERY IN THE E-GOLF (YOU CAN DO SO TOMORROW BY CALLING UP SAMSUNG, IT WILL FIT IN THE EXACT SAME PACK) AND STOP SPREADING THIS B.S. ABOUT NEW VEHICLE PLATFORMS IN 2025.

PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

John Doe
Would it cost much more? If so, they would have to cut their profit, as the e-golf is priced as high as they probably can. I read in an industrial magazine that the profit on the EV was much higher then the ICE Golf. Everybody would love more range at the same price. They could also sell two versions. I’m not sure the short range version would sell that well. If the price was fairly normal. Maybe they don’t want to alter production, since it’s just a few month until they’re going to stop the e-Golf production. Talked to a dealer, and he expected to have a few of the new EVs in late November, or early December. It makes me wonder why they’ve never upgraded the e-up battery either. It makes me wonder how interested they are in selling this generation of EVs. At the same time I see they’re launching an EV version of their Crafter, with a 200km range, and that it will be 400km a short while later. If Samsung has the batteries now, they could for sure use them in the Crafter as well. It’s not in production yet, but maybe they have already ordered… Read more »
vonk

The EU never fined VW for anything in the cheatingscandal. VW got their lobbying office right next to EU headquarters (around 40 lobbyist fulltime) In the meantime, more than 10 million dieselcheating polluters are on our roads today, everyday. I know exactly when to hold my breath, change lane (yes, over here you can) and close my windows. VW are a bunch of A Holes. Promising, lying, cheating, dirtbagging. Scumbags who account for thousands of early deaths.

ap

+1 +1 +1

John Doe
In Europe there was a main focus on the greenhouse effect, and to reduce CO2 emissions. That is why diesel engines was given advantages in Europe, given they use less fuel, and produce less CO2. NOx emissions was not that important, since in’s not a greenhouse gas. At the same time, fuel was taxed heavily to reduce comsumptions. Resulting in more fuel effective cars, smaller cars, smaller engines, reduced weight and so on. Diesel was never big in the US, and have never exceeded 1% or so? Everything has two sides. What about all the CO2 american gasoline cars send up in the air. I’m sure people suffering from rising sea levels just love them. If it was a US manufacturer, the fine would have been a fraction of what VW got. At the same time, there have been tests showing several other brands emmitting more then they should, but they have not gotten any fines. The VW thing is just stupid, and one can wonder what the **ll they thought about. At the same time, is’t kind of a minor thing. Look at the polution comming from the US and European cars. Look at miles per gallon at the… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu

John Doe said:

“Everything has two sides. What about all the CO2 american gasoline cars send up in the air. I’m sure people suffering from rising sea levels just love them.
If it was a US manufacturer, the fine would have been a fraction of what VW got.”

Every story may have “two sides”, but often those sides are very, very unequal.

You wouldn’t be getting so defensive about the EU’s lack of response to the Dieselgate scandal if you were not embarrassed and ashamed at that lack of response.

John Doe

It has to do with economics..
VW (and the other European car manufacturers that also had vehicles emitting more then they should) are important for income, taxes and jobs in Europe. I guess they are afraid to punish too hard, or they may move some of that business to another location.
In other words;
You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

I’m sure the EU would have given a fine to a US company, if they had done a similar thing.

I’m not defending EU, VW or anybody. I’m not from an EU country, I don’t work for VW and I don’t own stocks in VW.
I’m just saying there is too much fuzz about the diesel scandal. Blown out of proportions.

There are so many other things the general public don’t know or care about that is more important.

I think VW should have a fine in the EU as well – but within reason.
Building charging infrastructure could be such a fine. Make them available for everybody to use. Say 365 chargers a year, over a 10 year period or so.
If the money just went to the EU, nobody would directly see the result.

If VW was required, as a fine, to put in (L2) Chargers at Condos, Offices & Apartment Buildings, starting with those with over 100 Residents, and moving down to those with as few as 10 Residents, within 3 years; PLUS, install 50 kW, 150 kW, and 350 kW ‘Multi Standard’ (CCS + CHAdeMO) DC QC’s, in minimums of groups of 4, at 50 Mile intervals for 50 kW units, 100 mile intervals for 150 kW units, and 150 – 200 mile Intervals for 350 kW units, starting in Germany @ 50% and the other 50% in neighboring Countries with the Most Diesel ICE vehicles first, THAT would be a win for those seeking to move to EV’s!

Rightofthepeople

Reading your extensive list of “dont’s” reminds me why I’m a conservative. Thanks for the reminder!

Marshal G

Oh come on. You love the word NO when it’s applied to abortion, cannabis, brown and black people, and gay marriage. All that talk about freedom is really just a kinder gentler form of hatred for the other half of the people in “your” country.

Rightofthepeople

Ha! And your complete misunderstanding of what it means to be a conservative just made me laugh! Thanks again, made my night.

David Cary

As a conservative (in some ways), the problem with the label is that it means different things to different people. Just like liberal does.

The interesting thing is that his list used the word “don’t” 4 times- hardly extensive. And they were hardly controversial – just kind of obvious stuff.

Being a conservative in my mind has absolutely nothing to do with whether you believe science or not. Plenty of liberals deny science – feel that a lot of it is corporate lies. And then conservatives think it is government lies.

People are strange.

But the fact is that conservatism as practiced in the US today is a heterogenous group of religious conservatives and economic conservatives. Makes things very confusing. And sorry to say, racism is still a very big part of that group.

John Doe

You can be a conservative, and care for the environment at the same time right?

Ben

Actually the american people produce more than double the waste and emissions per person than nearly everybody else. I think Americans just found a scapegoat in VW for their own selfish misbehaviour. A small ICE is still much better than a big EV like the MS or MX. People on here tend to glorify themselves for buying large heavy fast Teslas. I don’t get it. I am here for small efficient EVs for the masses, which can actually help save our planet. This car is so much more what is needed than a MX.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Who is actually going to be reducing humanity’s total carbon footprint, and reduce our total carbon emissions, the most? Someone like you who switches from a small efficient gasmobile to a small efficient BEV? Or someone who switches from a big gas-guzzling gasmobile to a big heavy BEV?

Your “holier than thou” attitude may make you feel self-satisfied, but on a logical or factual basis your argument is a total failure.

EV “purists” like you give EV advocacy a bad name, and drive people away from even considering driving an EV.

zzzzzzzzzz

The fact established by many scientific studies that Model S or X has emitted 15 ton of CO2 just by producing his gigabattery sure doesn’t disturb you Tesla culties. Just deny, deny and deny it.

It not true that Prius is still cleaner car by any type of emissions, CO2, NOx, SO2 or PM comparing to grid-tied Model S. EPA and DOE do not provide such data, it is impossible /s

You can repeat it every morning if you want be good cultie. There is no science other than Electrek posts /s

Get Real

Another swing and a miss on the facts by serial anti-Tesla/EV troll and Big Oil/H2 shill zzzz.

Don’t Potatoes stuck in Tail Pipes make Big Bangs when A ICE starts up? I know it works for Gas cars, so it should be the same for a Diesel!

Jason

Seriously, they put a hold on e-Golf orders, a platform that is about $30k, been around for many years, uses smallish battery, and they think they can do a totally new platform with a bigger battery for less of a cost? That will be great to see but hard to believe.

John Doe
They make money on the current e-Golf. Probably too much too.. Since it’s produced together with the regular Golf, they have very low production costs. They have ordered a certain number of batteries from their supplier. When that is used, they have to wait in line to get more. The battery producer does not sit and wait for the the next order. They have a 24/7 operation, and have to fill the orderbooks to keep running. When they promise another company to deliver a certain number of batteries, they can not put that on hold just because someone at VW could not estimate the volume of e-Golf they sell. If VW made the batteries themselves, they could have increased the battery production themselves. They don’t have that option now. At the same time they use the time to upgrade the e-Golf production capacity for the next month they will continue to produce it. The new MEB platform is a platform with very few parts, and cheaper to make. At the same time, they will make too much money on it. They focus on volume, which is important for their plan. There will be another EV platform for more luxury cars,… Read more »
Jules

I know they lied(Dieselgate). But do you really think they lie about this? Did they the promise to release the ID crozz in 2018 three years ago?

They said they understand MQB plattform for ICE, PHEV and BEV together is not competitive in the future, so they started MEB for BEV only(and 2019 Golf comes with PHEV/ICE only). That needs time. They build a complete new plattform.

Traditional OEMs officially release when everything is fine and tested in production. It is more conventional. So official M3 release would probably be in Q2/Q3 2018 this way. I am not bashing Tesla, it is just different. First MEB car (just called ,ID‘, an MEB-Golf for EU at frist) should come in the end of 2019.

I understand you concerns, but I don‘t think it is just a fairytale.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“I know they lied(Dieselgate). But do you really think they lie about this? Did they the promise to release the ID crozz in 2018 three years ago?”

As I recall, an InsideEVs news story a year or two ago said that VW had touted putting the I.D. Buzz into production literally — literally! — at least a dozen times. And they’ve done it at least twice since. I also recall VW promising to put the “1-Litre”/XL1 into production several times; they “cried wolf” on that so often that I was astonished when they actually did put it into (very, very limited) production!

I think you’d have to be amazingly gullible to believe anything VW says about putting any new EV into production, unless and until we see reports that VW is actually tooling up a real, non-imaginary, non-vaporware production line to produce one.

John Doe

You do know they have tooled up two factories right?

They’re doing adjustments, robot programming and optimisation now. Jig testing, welding testing . . This takes month.

Jules

Interesting. Can you help me with a link?

David Cary

Jules – I don’t feel like researching it right now but there are several VW group announcements from years ago about cars that should be available today that never came to fruition.

They have lied about things other than diesel emissions over several years.

Does that mean they will never do it? No. But the purpose of these announcements is to get people to delay other purchases and shame on anyone who falls for that.

ElecV

OMG this is VW imaginary car #12 they should write as Sci-Fi movies…… next week a 4×4 600 miles for 2024 Lol

Nix

Sounds great. I’ll park it next to my £13,420 2010 Audi A1 e-tron.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/a1/first-drives/audi-a1-e-tron

VW/Audi certainly is the leader in producing concept cars with amazing sounding prices. Nobody has been doing it as long and with as many different models as them.

VW – So true they are the masters of PR spin, concept EV vapor ware. The biggest Bull $***ers of all time in the auto world. Looks like they got tired of re-running the retro bus future versions LOL. VW PR people at VW must be the best paid and practice way too much self indulgence on themselves.