Volkswagen To Sell Subcompact Electric Crossover For $21,000

Volkswagen I.D. Crozz


Also has a mid-size sedan and station wagon in the works.

The future for Volkswagen is electric and involves a host of different models, not just the more recently publicized bunch that includes a hatchback (thought to be called the I.D. Neo), the I.D. Crozz, the I.D. Buzz, and the I.D. Vizzion. Word is, a super-affordable subcompact crossover is also in the works, as well as a mid-size sedan and station wagon. How super-affordable? How does $21,000 (18,000 euros) sound? That could go some way toward helping the company live up to its recently adopted “Electric For All!” campaign slogan.

Before we start popping bottles, a word of caution: this is neither an official announcement or a done deal, though we expect those hurdles will be cleared. Also, it’s quite likely we’re not talking about a sub-compact with the 258-mile range of the 64-kWh Hyundai Kona Electric (another sub-compact crossover), so adjust your expectations accordingly.

If all works out, production of this all-electric would happen at the company’s Emden plant. That’s one of the two we were telling you about a couple days ago. Located in the north of the country, on the border with the Netherlands, the facility now pumps out the Passat. To successfully make the transition to an electric vehicle plant, the automaker has to get the union on board. To do that, it will have to offer enough jobs to make up for those lost.

Though VW has targeted about 200,000 units per year of this more affordable crossover to be built, there will still be some additional capacity. So, to help keep too many hands from being idle, another vehicle is being mulled for the location — a mid-size all-electric called the I.D. Aero, which might be made in both sedan and station wagon configurations. You may remember we brought you news of this model a couple summers ago, though back then we understood it to be a coupe.

We expect a little more clarity into the situation after a meeting of the automaker’s supervisory board, scheduled for the 16th of this month. That body is comprised of 40 members and includes union representatives who, we understand, can “block decisions.”

Source: Bloomberg

Categories: Volkswagen

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142 Comments on "Volkswagen To Sell Subcompact Electric Crossover For $21,000"

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Call me when they are shipping. 🙂


I suppose you find news about Tesla Semi and Model Y pretty annoying.

I’ve seen a whole lot less news about the Tesla Semi and Model Y combined than about VW’s future EV plans.

It’s just news.

How many imaginary cars VW has already released? Around 10 for the last 2 years.

“a word of caution: this is neither an official announcement”

They’ve progressed from imaginary EVs to imaginary announcements.

Just like the Faraday Failure and Lucid Rare

Like the $35k Model 3

There won’t be any 35K TM3 in the near future. The best we will get is 35KTM3+5KPUP by middle of next year.


So says “The Dr!”

That’s not an imaginary car. It’s a real lie.

Yes the lie of Tesla, keep shorting troll

The timeline is deliberate. In Europe there is no need to produce volume EV’s before 2020-21.

No more imaginary than the Tesla Model Y.

Wrong. Completely and totally wrong.

Unlike VW, Tesla does eventually get around to producing the EVs that it claims to be putting into production.

Model Y reveal is in 4 months.

I’d say that is quite a difference.

Only 10 vaporware EVs? Surely more than that! (Does “VW” mean “Volkswagen” or “VaporWare”?)

PP- your comment is cruel, but fair.
I’ll allow it.😄

Probably in 2024?

Actually that’s a pretty good guess. They will cease production of the VW Passat in Emden in 2023. If this EV is indeed going to be the next model for this factory then it will come to market by 2024.

Hmm, another claim by VW regarding some unknown car being released at some unknown time in the future.. I love how this headline showed up on Yahoo Finance today like it was as good as gold- oh, and how it was gonna take down Tesla.

This is literally a rumour, there’s nothing here attributable to VW?

Sure, it’s a rumor, but they started it.
“We will come in 2020 with vehicles that can do anything like Tesla and are cheaper by half”.-VW

Let me know when I can get my hands on a RHD $35K USD Model 3 then. Because that shouldn’t have been discussed before it shipped, right?

It’s not specific to RHD. One can’t get a LHD $36k Model 3 either.

I say $36k instead of $35k because there is a mandatory $1k destination charge added on (even if picked up at the factory).

When buying other cars, the destination charge is already factored into the sticker price (in the dealer invoice price).

Well you can always stick with stealerships (and all the cons they try and play on you).

I choose not to play their BS cons anymore.

Tesla’s continual playing around with prices and specs is no better — on a weekly basis in a couple of cases, sometimes — actually worse at least dealers compete against each other.

It’s bad enough when Amazon changes prices on many if not most items multiple times/day — I buy a lot less from them than I used to, because I no longer have any idea of the market price for what I’m interested in. Factor in changing the specs all the time as well, and it’s impossible for a prospective customer to establish a baseline value proposition. On a $50K purchase, that’s a serious problem.
Changing things once per year makes a lot more sense from all perspectives.
And saying “but operating systems on computers and phones are the same” is a shitty defense — it’s really, really bad for software stability & reliability.

Actually, AFAIK MSRP doesn’t include the destination charge (it should, if there’s no way not to pay it) — in the US, unlike Europe or here where the quoted price by law has to be the out-the-door price.
That said, the fact that any color except black, not just special paints, costs extra is also sleazy, so the minimum price will indeed be $36K if Tesla produces the basic model and doesn’t require PUP.
Black cars are less safe than other colors (several studied have shown(*)) due to bad visibility, so I’d never buy one, and there’s no justification for it costing extra. And even if it does, extra color should be $300, not $1000 anyway.

(*)Flat grays the color of asphalt are even worse.

$1500 or $2000 for non black.

Could have sworn it used to be $1000 for non-metallic colors.
{Checking} So it did. $1500 is robbery, and sleazy to change before the car was even in real production.
In fact, turns out Tesla changed the prices of color option 3 times in just 2 months (always raising them). The metallic reads which started out at $1000 is now $2500.
(and that doesn’t include a later raise in Sept.)
That’s far sleazier than dealer games. Who the F!@# wants to do business with such a company? Every thing I hear about their business practices makes me less and less inclined to ever buy one of their cars. It doesn’t bode well for how they’ll handle warranty claims now that it’s a lot of cars, and they’re not doing everything out of goodwill for a few 10K customers of $100K cars.

Yup. The MSRP for a gasmobile doesn’t include destination charge or dealer prep.

Yet for some reason, Tesla keeps getting “dinged” for not including destination charge, as if Tesla is somehow being less honest than legacy auto dealers, despite the fact that dealer prep is included in the price.

Sadly, the anti-Tesla campaign of Big Lies has succeeding in brainwashing a lot of people, even EV advocates. Repeat a Big Lie often enough, and a lot of people will believe it.

$1.2k destination and $1.5 or $2.0k for white or a color plus $1.0k for non-black interior.

Plan on July 2019 is my guess.

Where does it say subcompact in your quote?

No, it sounds like the next generation of their small EV, the VW E-UP. The current E-UP is now selling for € 23000 incl. DE VAT = € 19300 excl. VAT.

It will be the next generation of the e-UP in the same sense as the Neo will be the next generation of e-Golf: same class, but completely different car.

Reminds me of Alice in Wonderland. You can have jam tomorrow but you can never have jam today.

As Buddy Holly said so succinctly, That’ll be the day…

…that all EV enthusiast and supporters celebrate! 🎉

$21,000 ? … Volkswagon is so FOS that their Eyes Are Brown !

Already now VW sells the E-UP at € 19300 excl. VAT = US $ 21900. But you somehow think they can not sell next generation of the car $ 900 cheaper?

The E-UP is absolutely not a “Subcompact Electric Crossover”, not even remotely close.

The E-UP is in the US subcompact class as it is larger than a micro-car. Crossover just means that it is slightly taller car e.g. Hyundai Kona EV. Most likely next E-UP generation will have batteries in the full floor so it becomes a crossover model 10-15 cm taller. This assures that back seats will be decent height, not terrible low like in Tesla S and 3.

No. Properly speaking, the term “crossover” applies only to cars with elevated ground clearance and/or 4-wheel drive… neither of which the e-Up has.

If ever there was a car which fits the term “hatchback”, it’s the e-Up. And a rather stubby one.

Not really, the term “crossover” is used to define a class of vehicles that are meant to look a bit tougher/SUV like, but don’t require much ground clearance or AWD. In fact most crossovers are likely to be sold as 2WD, if you can even get AWD versions of them.

Basically they’re raised a couple of inches, have some extra flaring/plastic on their arches and that’s about it. Look at the Kona as an example. it’s a mildly lifted 2WD hatchback with some cosmetic changes.

Making the E-UP slightly higher and restyling a few external features would be all that’s needed to make it into a modern “crossover”.

Crossover is such a wide ranging term though as it can include things like the CR-V, which used to be considered an “SUV”, but now may also fit into the Crossover terminology.

This is what you’re calling a “sub-compact crossover” ???

The e-Up is a hatchback with an EV range of 65 miles, and a pretty small hatchback at that.

Yeah, I imagine that they can get the price down to below $25k for a tiny bare-bones EV with only 65 miles of EV range.

It comes in a longer 5 door version as well, which is only a foot or so shorter than several crossovers available in Europe. It’s certainly not impossible for them to produce a slightly larger EV than the current e-UP, in a couple of years, for the price being rumored above. Especially so if it’s the base model with shorter range.

Would it sell in the US? Probably not. But it would do well in Europe.

Nope. The crossover would be NEXT generation of E-Up. Not your photo from 2009.

It’s. Not. A. Crossover.


Where there is smoke there is fire and love or loathe VW they will most likely be the leading legacy auto manufacture selling BEVs in 2020 and beyond…
And unfortunately no other legacy auto manufactures will probably even compete with them in BEV sales…
So maybe you all will get your wish and Tesla will be the only BEV manufacture (I doubt it) in the world but by the time they scale the world will be toast…
From what I read here half the poster have the same amount of integrity as the previous VW diesel gate execs…
Yes you hate VW for diesel gate but you don’t need to drop down and become a slander and pretend the new reality doesn’t exist just because of your hate…

I agree with your overall point yo but by 2020 is not going to happen for VW. GM with the bolt n upcoming Buick suv bev will best VW for a little while.
I could see 2022 being the year VW becomes the legacy bev behemoth in sales.

VW will sell a lot of EVs in 2020 because of new EU emission regulation requires it. Hence many new EVs from VW and other car companies are launching in 2019-2020.

Exactly, they may not sell big in the US, but in Europe and other areas they may well do. Just as GM will probably only sell their EV’s in North America.

They are talking about 150,000 in 2020.

Of course that might still put them at the top of legacy makers, if others keep being even more tardy…

(Pretty sure Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi will beat them in 2020, though. Perhaps even Nissan alone?)

The world will be toast anyway, geo-engineering is the only plausible hope for the next century or so.

Geo-engineering. Because all environmental problems have been solved by tinkering further with the environment.

No, geoengineering because we’ll continue to delay until we can no longer deny the magnitude of the catastrophe we’ve set in motion, and by then geoengineering will be our only hope.

We will deny the problem as long as the Republican party is politically funded by 15 oil and 15 coal companies. The only way to fix that would be to Roll Back Citizens United.
Those same Republicans will never allow that to happen.

Aerospace Engineers can’t do “Design For Manufacturing” of Many Aircraft very well, who do you think will “Fix” the Environment, as an Engineer?

Of course, it’s a lot easier than persuading people not to have kids, to become vegetarian (meat production produces more CO2 than transportation*) and stem their consumerism – three of the major things that would actually help earth.

*I say this as a meat eater, not a vocal vegan!

“Where there is smoke there is fire…”

Over the past several years, VW has emitted an incredible amount of vaporware “smoke”, and almost no actual production plug-in EV “fire” at all.

I’ve always found the saying “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire” to be an odd one, because there are so very many exceptions to that, that I don’t even think it’s a rule.

The gravity of this is, this won’t destroy Tesla, it will make VW take huge market share in Europe.
It will hurt every other automaker in the EU if they do not respond at this price point.
Only if VW limits production to 200,000, then it almost means nothing.

That Campaign Slogan Should Read , “Imaginary Electric For All”

Isn’t that kind of expensive for a poster? For crying out loud!….it’s just ink and paper!!!

I really hope this happens, but yes need more reality first before I start jumping for joy!

They’ll sell as many as their ‘clean diesels.’

I would remind everyone here that not all that long ago there was a wild-eyed guy with a funny name and a pile of money he made in some Internet company who said he was going to [1] start a new car company from scratch that would [2] sell only BEVs through [3] company owned stores. Do I really need to remind the people in this virtual living room how that turned out…?

This is NOT to say that VW and other companies will keep every one of their promises. But they won’t all fail, and all we need is some of them to come through and that will force the rest to respond or file for bankruptcy.

It’s hard to imagine anything that would push the Legacies and Tesla to do what we want quicker than VW coming even close to shipping these rumored cars.

At least Tesla started with a small batch of expensive cars. The VW claims are laughable because they are claiming price performance levels that are known to be unattainable at this time. Put up or shut up!

Actually, if you do the maths, there is absolutely no reason why these price points wouldn’t be attainable in the next few years. They only seem unattainable thus far because nobody was trying hard.

Nobody believed Tesla would succeed because they little money, were selling a product people said no one wanted, made by a guy at a company no one ever heard of.

VW had none of these disadvantages yet failed to sell a fraction of what the unknown company has sold.

Being a legacy automaker has its own disadvantages too, though. You can’t just one day cease selling the ICE cars you’re known for, ending revenue, and try to sell electrics that you’re not known for and which are more expensive and inconvenient for a portion of your clientele (those without a place to charge).

Even going slowly, it’s a challenge to traditional automakers. They are public companies and thus have shareholders to please, which means they can’t easily spend the kind of cash necessary to create a compelling car, produce it in numbers and promote it.

VW is finally, it seems, coming to grips with that challenge, but it can’t make it happen overnight. If it can get close to the targets it’s setting, though, it will have a huge influence on the market and the roads.

Presumably you’re not talking about Tesla, which was started by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning… and not Elon Musk, who also distinctly lacks any wild-eyed look.

And J.B. Straubel, Employee #1 or #3, I forget?

Credit for being the “third founder” of Tesla Motors has been given to Ian Wright. I wasn’t there to see it, but the accounts I’ve read portray Staubel as having a more peripheral involvement until after Tesla was incorporated.

Tesla was formally *founded* by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning; but they didn’t *start* for good until Musk came in with the money (and leadership)…

starting 21k… fully loaded will be 145k

OH! you wanted wheels with that? That’s extra, and you have to buy the whole package upgrade to get them!

With volume being the key to reaching this $21,000 EV, It sounds like a deal with Ford to share the MBE platform can make it a reality. With with this modular platform that can range from sub-compact, compact, midsize and large cars/suvs, the massive volume across all VW Group and Ford branded vehicles could bring the EV drivetrain below the ICE drivetrain costs. But buy the time this VW BEV is launched, Tesla will have launched $35k Model 3, Model Y, with 500k production in China bringing down unit costs for Tesla as well.

But either way, the more affordable EVs in volume the better!!

The only ways they’ll get to $21k msrp is if the put in a tiny battery and factor in government incentives. Or they’ll pull a Renault and lease you the battery for extra.

They will need roughly 50, gWh of batteries per million cars (at 50 kWh average each). This requires some serious lead time to scale up.

It won’t need anywhere near 50 kWh of batteries if it has only the 65 mile range of the VW e-Up.

And if it has 150+ miles of EPA rated range, then it certainly won’t sell for under $25k. Probably not under $30k.

You are thinking of terms of the current EVs by legacy makers. The dedicated MEB platform is supposed to lower costs by 30%.

I heard from a little birdy that this car will be made out of card board and the battery will be four Duracell AA’s.

Someone make a T-shirt of all the things VW has claimed and not produced. Or an infographic (available as a t-shirt).

………or just design the t-shirt and never produce it.

Too soon.

(-; ++

“Someone make a T-shirt of all the things VW has claimed and not produced.”

If you tried to fit all the vaporware EV claims that VW has made in the last decade on one T-shirt, you’d have to look at it from a range of 2 inches to read it!

I’m still waiting for that Wankel-engined Chevy Monza that GM promised for 1974.

That’s pretty expensive for an electric toy riding car.
Actually it’s a real electric car but the battery is optional.

$21k is just nuts n not gonna happen in the usa for any bev next decade. Inflation, additional future safety requirements and of course a range of at least 200 miles are all big factors in keeping prices for new bev models above $30k in the USA.
Even for $30k with those requirements would be quite an accomplishment for VW or any bev builder next decade.

Battery rental?

“$21k is just nuts n not gonna happen in the usa for any bev next decade.”

Already now VW sells the E-UP in Germany at € 19300 excl. VAT = US $ 21900. It is a mini 4 seat car (A class) with short range. So sure they can sell the next generation $900 cheaper.

All the requirements of range etc. you mentioned, are not claimed in the article for this cheap model.

And again, VW is talkting about a Subcompact Electric Crossover, which the E-UP ist NOT!

And again, as explained to you above in other comment. it is!

You claiming it is, is not the same as reality.

The e-Up is a hatchback, and a rather stubby one. It does not fit the definition of “crossover” by the wildest stretch of that term.

That sounds realistic for 200+ miles.

Presumably that’s sarcasm?

If indeed the rumor was for sub-compact, it’s not competing with the Kona (which is a compact, NOT sub-compact). The Kona is Golf/Leaf/Bolt sized; a subcompact would be at most VW Polo (and maybe e-Up) / Spark EV / i-MiEV sized.

I actually suspect this is simply a new from-scratch 4-seater BEV design for the e-Up. Many such cars sell in China and it’s a decent market in Europe (~9% of all cars).
The new MEB platform they’re planning for the “I.D.” line would have too large a wheelbase for such a car. The car would most likely be a city car, with 100-120mi range; at urban speeds, I suspect <20kWh. That makes the price mentioned more reasonable.

BTW, I suspect you'd be better off using the European car-segment definitions. They tend to be better differentiated.

Unfortunately the comments section is full of a lot of Americans who insist something is vapourware if it isn’t sold in the US and isn’t a car that would be considered fairly large in the European market.

Maybe that’s just you.

MEB has a flexible wheelbase. IIRC it’s supposed to cover at least B and upwards? Not sure about A…

They are trying to hold onto their loyal customers who are itching to switch to EVs

I used to drive a VW e-up! that had a price of 270 kSEK in 2014 (in Swweden). In current money that’s about 30 kUSD. Since that was a conversion of an existing ICE-car I think you could save a lot of costs by designing an EV from the start. On top of that VW has been producing electric Golf and has probably learnt a lot.
I wouldn’t bet against them.

What are we playing to? (VW advertisement
…..say buy a gas golf…..EV is for kids…).
That’s VW thinking.

A word of caution:
This probably does not refer to a Kona-sized car. I can imagine it being the e-Up successor. But due the fact that it will be built on the MEB skateboard platform it will be higher and thus marketed as being crossover. The Up is half a meter shorter than the Kona.

So, my guess is: e-Up was 26k€ (just now dropped to 22k€) for 18 kWh battery.
New ID “e-Up” will be 34 kWh (5/7 of the Neos 48 kWh in 7 modules) for less money than the old one (VW reported the MEB being 35 % cheaper than their current architecture, adding larger battery cost, this might fit).

“Neos 48 kWh in 7 modules”

Do you have a link to this info?

Sorry, this is only a hypothesis in the german EV forums. The infos about battery sizes come from an insider posting in the e-VW forum (Helbig). He dropped the numbers in several threads. That lead to someone trying to figure out fitting pack sizes:

For the argument it doesn’t matter much if this is actually true, so I just took those numbers and figured the smallest available vehicle will have a battery the size of the current e-Golf. Don’t take those values for granted, they are only guesstimates.

Interesting — so you think it might be MEB-based (I was under the impression MEB would have too large a wheelbase). If so, it’s probably very likely doable, as long as VW actually start volume BEV production as they claim; if MEB is amortized over 100K cars/year, shouldn’t be a problem to produce an e-Up sized CUV-ish car (*)with a 20kWh battery.

(*)recall, CUV is just macho styling to make a car look like an SUV without being one — no AWD, no body-on-truck chassis, no offroad-capable suspension, no offroad-rated toughness.

Yes, as far as I understood, the MEB will carry pretty much ALL of VWs (brand) cars. I try to give some perspective, if you are interested: MEB is often translated with “modular electrification platform” or something like that. But the B stands for “Baukasten” which literally translates to “set of (toy) building blocks” out of which a new car can be designed by picking “parts” (like motor(s), suspension, battery…) and then get a “hat” on top (basically outer body and interior). That is also how VW (group, except for special cars, like several Porsches) builds their current cars. There is MLB and MQB, where “Längs” and “Quer” refer to the orientation of the engines crankshaft. longitudinal V6s and V8s (and W12) with their big and long engine and transmission setup versus the small inline 4-cylinder cars. There has been some evolution going on (an updated MQB over the years) but pretty much every VW (group) car is based on one of those “platforms” (or rather built from one Baukasten). The MEB will be no different, in that a lot of cars will be possible, also with different wheelbases (the longer ones having more potential battery packs. Maybe google cutaway… Read more »

I realize that you’re just speculating, but if VW could produce even a tiny e-Up sized street legal, highway-capable BEV with 34 kWh for only MSRP $21k, then I would be impressed indeed!

Even better, VW would have to make and sell them at high volumes to get the price that low. If VW does that, what a great victory for the EV revolution it would be!

Sadly, given VW’s history of vaporware EVs, it looks rather unlikely to become reality, at least to me. 🙁

With a dedicated platform, proper range of power train options, and significant production volumes, there is no reason why an EV with just a 34 kWh entry-level battery should have more than maybe $3,000 price premium over a similar entry-level combustion car *today*.

“Volkswagen To Sell Subcompact Electric Crossover For $21,000”

Volkswagen has just recently unveiled their new subcompact crossover model in Amsterdam, it looks great and the name is VW T-Cross. It will have to compete with the Renault Captur.

If VW would seriously consider to bring out an EV version of the VW T-Cross, than that would be really great.

Looks almost like a normal car! 😉

A proper BEV based on the MEB platform will surely have a different shape though, more reminiscent of the I.D. concepts.

Don’t get your hopes up.
ID Aeroe (that’s the name) is for China only (and only if the lobby can’t get China authorities to delay the ev quota again).

How do you know that this will be the AEROe?
From the image you linked, this is also for US market. And if VW doesn’t even bring the Neo to the US because they think it’s too small, then I don’t think that the AEROe will be an even smaller car. I’d rather think, that the AEROe is a big limousine, maybe cousin to the Arteon.

Nikita Khruschev visits Banana Republic and holds a speech.
“We will build you schools”, crowds cheers “Baluga!”,
“We will build roads”…………………………………”Baluga!”
“We will give you loans”…………………………….”Baluga!”
Then, after all that excitement he needs to relieve himself
but he cannot see a restroom. He asks Chief who points him
to the shrubs. “Over there you pull the the baluga out and pee”.

Promises, promises, then more empty promises.

Could they make the wheels any bigger?

vw no more bull…t pls shut up

I just saw an Iveco Daily electric on the street. Didn’t even knew they existed and I read these websites almost every day.

Great seeing VW ramping up their EV production.
Finally we’ll see some decently build electric cars hitting the market.

Another Euro point of view

One thing at least looks likely is that if they really spread the development cost of their EV platform with Ford there will be no car maker that will have lower development costs per unit than this pair of manufacturers with a combined total yearly production of 20 mio cars. Now I see that like 68 people felt the need to deny this announcement while the usual article about VW usually attracts a lousy total of less than 10 comments. So my take is some people must might feel some sort of anxiety that the plasticity of their brain could be challenged in a couple of years. Very typical actually.

Most people based their thought from what’s available to them in the most recent news.

Since VW news hasn’t been that much in favor of a very dedicated and honest speech, it’s hard not to be skeptical of them.
It’s not a redemption, but I think VW is really going to push to EV conversion, as far as it’s a very mandatory profitable way of keeping the business up.

Doesn’t matter much overall what the motivation is, I really hope they can put all their weight in it.

It remains to be seen.

Or maybe your conspiracy theory of the reasons behind the doubters is simply the fact that VW has and continues to move their own delivery timelines on all these EV’s they tout. It’s not really complicated. Some folks like to continue lighting candles for VW, while others simply pay attention to timelines.

They haven’t moved the timeline for the MEB-based portfolio at all as far as I’m aware. They were talking about 2020 release back in 2016.

Until it’s for sale in Pennsylvania, it’s vaporware to me.

It would only be vapourware if they had promised to sell it in the US in the first place…

If it gets 100 miles per charge on the coldest of days, it should draw a long waiting list. Many will want it for a second car.

Strongly agree. This second car market is something I’ve been talking about since the Volt and Leaf first hit the market. If you look at only those households with a convenient way to charge at home, have 2 or more cars, and can afford an EV, in the US alone you still have a huge potential customer base. But once 200 mile cars are the norm, and once we see a bit lower prices, we’re likely to see a tipping point in the popularity of EVs in the US.

“Volkswagen To Sell Subcompact Electric Crossover For $21,000”

Sounds wonderful! Too bad that…

(1) This is just a rumor

(2) Volkswagen has a long and very well established history of making vaporware claims about putting EVs into production

I will be very happy, and give VW much praise, if we see actual confirmed reports of VW tooling up a production line to produce this car.

But not before that happens.

Another Euro point of view

Could you please give me an example of a announcement by VW group announcing to put an EV into production that was later cancelled or delayed ? Not saying you are wrong but the only case I remember is the Audi R8 EV that was announced then cancelled I believe 4 or 5 years ago. It became a “on order car”. When reading American sites comments section about German cars I often have the feeling that those imports are resented as an evil invasion force once again coming in yet another attempt to gas the good American folk. For us Europeans it is juts a nice neighbor usually making well designed and good quality products. Watching too many old movies perhaps ?

The European and North American car markets are very different (said as a European living in North America). What sells well in one area does not necessarily do well in the other.

North American cars have historically not done well in Europe, with the exception of Ford, who, other than a few of their small US cars, have a different lineup (the Fusion/Mondeo is their largest car and the Edge is their largest “SUV” in Europe). The same to an extent with European cars in the North America, although they make up for it a bit in cachet. US cars don’t have that benefit in Europe. Tesla might, but their smallest car is a large vehicle in Europe, so it’s unlikely to ever see the same traction as it is seeing in North America.

It’s likely that most of the EV’s we know VW is going to make will ever sell in North America, and if they do they will be a minor market. A small subcompact crossover as mentioned in this rumor may well be one of them. Conversely it may sell extremely well in Europe and other parts of the world.

I would never label something as “vaporware” just because it’s not marketed in the U.S.A.* That’s not VW’s problem. VW’s problem is repeatedly announcing they’re going to put this or that EV into production without ever showing the slightest effort to follow through with such a claim. That is pure, unadulterated, 100% vaporware.

*Well, arguably Mitsubishi claiming to sell the Outlander PHEV in the USA happened so many times over the years that I think it was fair to call that “vaporware”, altho Mitsu finally did start selling that here, albeit rather belatedly. However, I’d say that’s the exception which proves the rule.

Just look at the number of times that the I.D. Buzz (and the previous prototypes in the same development line, such as the BUDD-e) have been used by WV to claim they’re about to put a real, actual EV into production. An IEVs article perhaps a year or two ago said it was a dozen times! And more times since then.

That is just one line of EV vaporware prototypes from VW.

As far as “cancelled or delayed”… well of course that’s part of the problem: VW never announces any cancellation or delay. They do, however, repeatedly announce the same car going into production, every few months, without ever having any real intentions of doing so.

How many times did VW announce it was going to put the 1-Liter series into production? When they finally did put the XL-1 into very limited production (250 units) I was astounded, because they had announced it so many times without following through, and I assumed the last announcement was just more vaporware.

Did VW ever announce putting the BUDD-e into production? I don’t think they talked about it being anything but a concept.

As for the ID. BUZZ, AFAIK the timeline hasn’t moved. There is nothing wrong with repeatedly saying they will make it in 2022, if they actually follow through on it…

Just a good neighbor? Dieselgate was objectively a bigger crime against the health of Europeans than Americans. The only German companies that haven’t yet been implicated in some sort of emissions rigging are Opel and German Ford. You know, the invaders.

With upping the range to 200+ miles on newer EVs, there is room now for an EV with < 100 miles range and a very low price tag. Nowhere is it written in stone that such a car is not useful as a city car.

The problem with that is that few people will be willing to accept such vastly inferior range for a maybe 20% price discount…