Trusted Source Says 60-kWh Nissan LEAF Will Have 225-Plus Mile Range

white nissan leaf hatchback


Bigger battery will help it compete against the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3.

In case you hadn’t heard, Nissan has officially launched its all-new, all-electric 2018 Nissan Leaf. It comes, initially at least, with a 40 kWh battery said to offer an EPA-rated 150 miles, but will get a 60 kWh battery option sometime next year. While the 150-mile Leaf may have its fans because of its $29,990 price point, others are anxious to learn how much range the larger option will yield.

It’s an important data point. Potential buyers will want to weigh the new Nissan carefully against the 220-mile Tesla Model 3, the 114-mile BMW i3, and the 238-mile Chevy Bolt. So, one of the main question left unanswered at the Leaf’s launch was the range customers might expect from the bigger pack. Now we have a pretty believable answer.

According to a tweet from journalist and noted Tesla skeptic Bertel Schmitt, quoting Nissan’s executive vice president of global sales and marketing Daniele Schillaci, the answer is “more than 225 mile range.” Prompted, the exec added, “EPA.” Mathematically, this makes sense. The larger pack is fifty percent more energy dense than the standard 40 kWh pack, and so it should offer fifty percent more range.

With our curiosity about the range figure more or less satisfied, our minds turn to the question of “why?” Why does a 60 kWh battery yield 238 miles in the Chevy Bolt, but around 13 miles less in the Leaf. Two possibilities come quickly to mind. Maybe the Bolt is just more efficient due to weight, drivetrain efficiency, aerodynamics, or some combination of those factors. Or, perhaps, the Leaf can use less of the overall capacity of its pack.

Whatever the reason, it’s clear that the pressure will be on Nissan to keep the price of the larger battery option low enough to go head-to-head with the Chevy and its $36,620 MSRP. Already at a 13-mile disadvantage, it will be an interesting battle for market share, once it finally gets started.

Source: Twitter

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114 Comments on "Trusted Source Says 60-kWh Nissan LEAF Will Have 225-Plus Mile Range"

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That would be an interesting play by Nissan. The Leaf is smaller, and I’m guessing lighter than the Bolt, so it should go farther. If you assume they are only using 90% of the pack and never allowing it to charge completely, that would increase it’s life, but also give the impression that it never degrades as you could use up a bit more capacity as it did degrade.

If that’s what they are doing, “100%” range ends up being ~250 miles, which seems about right for it’s size.

The LEAF is longer, wider and has a longer wheelbase. The Bolt does weigh 2% more, but I doubt that makes a difference.

I just don’t see how Nissan can sell 20kWh more range for just $7k extra. Maybe 10k more? Then Nissan will be cannibalizing the SL versions of the 40kWh Leaf.

Perhaps they’ll just make all SLs to be 60kWh.

That sounds right to me…

Leaf is bigger than the Bolt. I currently own both.

The 40kwhr Nissan Leaf has a curb weight around 4500lbs, whereas the Bolt has a curb weight of around 3,500lbs.

Pretty big difference. The difference between a Ford F150 and a BMW 3 series..

That 4500lbs figure includes the maximum passenger and cargo weight, so the actual weight of the vehicle is about 1000lbs less. Very close to the Bolt, then.

That’s only the 40 kWh version though. You’d think the 60 kWh version would weigh more since it has a 50% larger battery.

It might even end up weighing *less* for all we know, since it uses different battery chemistry with higher energy density.

Leaf is lighter than bolt with current pack, we wont know for sure if it will remain lighter once the 60kw pack is in it.

As a 1st gen Leaf owner with a quickly degrading battery and no solutions offered, you can suck it Nissan. Won’t get my money, I’ll take a Bolt, thank you. You turn your back on those that took a leap of faith with your 1st gen cars and won’t even offer the larger size battery packs as a replacement option.

Nissan- hopefully the sting of being electrically irrelevant will be greater than my families loss of $25 grand on your worthless 1st gen car.

One phrase “thermal management” learn it NOW Nissan.

I’m glad a got my 30kwh Leaf late in the production life when the batteries batteries have been substantially improved. I’m really happy with it.

I do find Nissan’s treatment of early adopters to be quite shabby. I hope to get a next generation EV in 2 or 3 years and will be watching carefully to see how different makers provide support for older vehicles.

All manufacturers must face the reality that EVs are not going to be the profit generators that ICE cars have been both in sales and service.

My 2016 30 kWh Leaf is coming up on 24 months since it build date (10/2015) next month. Battery is show absolutely no signs of degradation Leaf Spy Pro. It is still charging up to 100% of capacity at 28 kWh useable, after 11k mi. and 11 months of being driven. I can’t believe the difference between the last generation of 24 kWh battery issues.

Post picture to prove it! You might be a Nissan EV salesman.

@John: Agreed.

Fortunately, I leased my former 12 Leaf. But nevertheless, it lost 75% of its value over 3 years, and that’s if you exclude the subsidies.

Range never matched the EPA claim, and in the worst winters it dropped to under 40 (actual) miles.

The dealer was terrible, and tried to convince me that 15% loss of battery capacity in 3 years was OK.

No, Nissan lost me as an EV customer for Round 2.

It’s also obvious that this Leaf 2.0 was designed on the cheap. They kept the same door panels and wheelbase, making the interior tight. They kept the air-cooled battery scheme. They’re trying to appeal to new customers who don’t know any better, and who simply want to buy the cheapest EV they can find.

It’s astonishing, really, that it took Nissan *so long* to come out with Leaf 2.0, yet it’s not even all-new or class-leading.

Sorry to hear about your Leaf… this is the reason we went with GM a few years ago since we live in hot, humid Texas. Hopefully the new pack suffers less degredation.

You’ll love the Bolt! We had no issues whatsoever with our Spark EV or Volt.

Now that we have a Bolt, I’m seeing 240+ miles… with hilltop reserve turned on! With a full charge, I get 270-280 miles estimated.

Yes, they should have rectified that by replacing the battery, returning the money prorated vrs time of ownership.

Wise choice John. I don’t know what is with these companies – they don’t understand people don’t like taking a bath with their underperforming products. I personally overall am satisfied with GM products. VOLTS have been pretty good, (the related article here talks about a 400,000 mile progress report), ELR is basically flawless after a trivial seat belt issue – engine and battery show NO wear after 35,000 miles, and ever the one bugaboo with the BOLT ev’s center screen freezing has not happened to me since it has been at the dealer a few weeks ago – apparently opening and reseating the connectors to the screen got the connection to it much better, and what must have been a hastily plugged in screen now for the time being seems fine. Otherwise, the car seems BETTER than advertised – as an example, although advertised as 60 kwh, 200 miles, it is probably a 65 kwh, 279 mile car (epa 238). The other attractive thing for the buyer is the BOLT ev (at least in NY State) has plenty of copies for sale with either ZERO or minimal options. So you can get a truly low priced vehicle. Of course, the… Read more »

I’d love to know how the range has been in the cold Western NY winter? With the heater on, what kind of a hit have you seen?


Well, I did drive it during the coldest day of the winter (10-15 deg F) to Syracuse on the first week I had the car…. But then it got warm so I can’t really tell you about the heater range as of yet.

During the trip to SYRACUSE I only used the heater enough to see out the windshield kinda, but the mileage was way, way down just due to the cold. Bout 30%; and that was with zero battery heating, since the battery was ‘working’ all the time, either discharging or charging, and didn’t need any other heat.

That’s awesome to hear, Bill! I’m super excited to get the Bolt, my family no longer has an ever-increasing range issue. I also own a Volt, so it’s been saving our bacon the last 3 years. I can’t say enough about the Volt, it’s been an amazing car. I’m stoked to hear how far folks have been driving the Bolt, can’t wait to get my hands on one!

I am in the same camp. I had a LEAF for three years and am currently in a Bolt Premier. Nissan will not get any more of my EV money unless they have an active TMS.

The worst thing is that Nissan hasn’t provided an option to retrofit a larger battery in. There’s no reason that the 24 kWh version shouldn’t be able to be replaced with at least a 30 kWh battery. They really did their customers a disservice by not making an effort to allow for an upgrade when the battery needs to be replaced.

I flat out don’t believe that it wouldn’t be fairly easy for them to figure out a way to do the retrofit.

I agree this a big lessen to learn, specially when the battery energy density from first gen Leaf about dobbelt.
I love that BMW made that possible and I hope Tesla and other car EV manufacturers will make that possible to, specially now that they have a possibility to give the battery’s a second life as a battery storage

I see the leaf e+ selling point for SL at 33k-34k. It will beat the Bolt and the basic 3. Don’t get me started on the basic 3

Who knows what the Bolt and Volt prices will be when the 60 kW Leaf shows up. For one thing, the credit will be getting cut in half for Tesla and GM next year, probably late. Once the credit gets cut in half, GM will probably drop the price by $3000, but you never know.

Nissan is going to be a year late to the game for full utility BEV’s, and that is never good. Also people like John, above, got burned by Nissan’s lack of thermal management on the early Leaf and “Trust us!” is not a good way to rebut the concerns about the new Leafs lack of thermal management.

If the 60 kW Leaf is more than $5,000 cheaper than the Bolt, it should do ok. If it is closer to the Bolt than that, it will have a hard time making up lost ground and the Bolt will eat its lunch.

But the 3 will crush them both in sales figures. Tesla has the cachet. Cool sells and neither GM or Nissan have that anymore.

It’s nice to have 500k but how many of them can get finance, how many are willing to lease at around 500 a month.

I think the 3 will probably lease for around $450 a month with little down and 12k miles a year. And the people that follow Tesla tend to be fairly well off so the vast majority of them will be able to afford it.
Teslas only real worry is quality control and production ramping up. If they can keep the 3 relatively bug free and ramp up to anywhere close to 5,000 a week relatively quickly, they will do well.
If they can get the rate up to the 10k a week that Musk has talked about, while still maintaining the quality of the 3, that will be amazing. They were a boutique car company just 4 years ago, for Pete’s sake!

Yeah, to my surprise I have not heard a single review from the ev crowd lambasting Nissan for no thermal management, aside from air. Not even a mention of it.

My suspicion is that Nissan flies them over to Japan, they get access, but Nissan asks them not to ask about it. Just ignore that elephant in the room, and ask us Pro-Pilot, which appears to be quite good.

Who knows what the Leaf 60kWh price will be either. There’s been no announcement of price.

Nissan will almost certainly still have credits left when GM’s run out, so they get to keep their price right in line with the Bolt and still get sales. Plus, if GM still hasn’t put any sort of ACC/autonomous features on it by that time, the Leaf will have the leg up with ProPilot.

Will – What’s your beef with the basic model 3? For 220 miles, 50kwh durable liquid cooled battery, way more standard features, 60kw charging speed and access to the supercharger network, all for only 5k more than the base Leaf S (And only 2k more than the Leaf SV). Seems like a no brainer to me.

Here is an interesting Factoid (Or Quick Match Check) If the 220 Mile Range ‘Base’ Model 3 is 50 kWh usable, and deliverers 220 Miles, that is 4.4 Miles per kWh, so 60 kWh at that efficiency could get it 264 Miles!

A 75 kWh Pack delivering 310 miles = 4.1333… Miles per kWh, so a 60 kWh Part of that (Software Limited) should be able to get you 248 Miles!

An actual Mid Sized Pack, then – should be able to deliver between 255-260 Miles Range, for 60 kWh, in a Model 3!

Also, I HIGHLY doubt the 2019 60kwh SL/e+ (whatever they want to call it) will be priced at 34k. I would be very surprised if Nissan prices it under 37k. That’s why they’re already referring to it as a “performance” version, with more horsepower and torque, etc. It’s so that they will be able to justify the higher price tag. Nissan has shown their true colours time and time again, treating the public like idiots, blatantly dodging important issues such as thermal management and expecting that we will just keep swallowing their BS over and over again.

I’m going with a model 3 and i suspect a lot of other potential Leaf customers will do likewise after seeing last night’s reveal (if they haven’t already gone out and bought a Bolt months ago).

That’s weird, I’m getting a Prius Prime advertisement in what I think is Chinese. I hope you’re getting paid for that, InsideEVs, because I have no idea what it’s telling me.

(It’s not relying on geography either – Census 2010 estimated the Chinese population of my borough at 0.3%.)

Maybe you are using a proxy which is going out in China ?

This is what I would expect. The more interesting question to me is this: will the 60kWh Leaf be available before Nissan burns through their allotment of US federal tax credits? If so, I may wait for it. If not, I’d like to know ASAP so I can pick up a Bolt for $7500 off.

Any word is appreciated. Maybe a general update on where each manufacturer stands to run out of credits is in order.


Nissan will have their tax credit longer than GM. Also, there’s no need to panic. When the credit expiration is hit you still have a full quarter to get your Bolt. I’m sure it will be big news around here when GM hits it, and it’s not like a stampede of people will be down at the dealership the next day.

I think the main difference is that the Bolt EV has a roughly 64-65kWh battery pack with 60kWh net. The extra 4-5kWh probably makes the difference. What will be the net battery pack for the Leaf?

Yeah the Bolt could have access to as much as 62kWh of the battery, which would keep it ahead of the Leaf.

Just how do you get “a 13 mile disadvantage” from a quote of “MORE than 225 miles EPA”

249 is more than 225 and so is 238 !

The Bolt has 0.32 and the new 60 kWh Leaf will have around 0.27 as it sits lower to the ground than the 40 kWh model.

It will almost certainly have the same battery as the Bolt and be more aerodynamic, yes I realise it may other factors that can affect range including the motor/power train & weight etc but aren’t we jumping the gun a bit here ?

Schillaci is hardly going to come out with a figure of let’s say 238 mile range for instance in case people put 2+2 together to work out it’s an LG Chem battery !

* 0.32 & 0.27 drag coefficient.

The .32 drag coefficient for the Bolt was the target when they started designing it, but the actual number is .308

In the previous paragraph, I qualified the 13 miles as “around.” These numbers are always squishy, so a mile here or there, gained or lost, should be expected.

Not really sure how to account for the difference, considering the Leaf should have an equal MPGe.

It’s possible that the Nissan battery is 59.1 kWh in reality, and the Bolt’s 60.9. I do think the difference will stay in the dozen mile range when all the facts are officially known.

I strongly suspect that if the Leaf had range equal to the Bolt, Schillaci would just as proudly use that number.

I don’t think he’s holding back to hide clues about the battery supplier. The vast majority of customers wouldn’t care if the supplier is from Korea instead of Japan.

If you have been following the Bolt, there seem to be a lot of people convinced that the Bolt has a 60kWh USABLE battery and that it is closer to 65kWh total. Maybe the Leaf has 60kWh total with 55kWh usable. 55/60 * 238 = 218 miles. If the Leaf is 3% more efficient than the Bolt, that would push it to 225 miles.

Yeah Brian I’m the first one to come up with the 65 kwh figure – the 62 kwh ‘useable’ figure posited here is a bit theoretical, if it assumes there is 2 kwh of heat (around 6800 BTU) disipated getting the real 59.9 kwh out of the battery (so far at least).

A full recharge from dead took 67.7 kwh, and at an 11 hour recharge rate, the recharging efficiency in cool weather isn’t too shabby. You’ve already seen what happens when the sun is shining on thecar in the daytime.


I tend to believe you are correct in your assessment.

FWIW,others have independently come to the same conclusion on the mychevybolt forum.

I think it was the fact you used “already” at a 13 mile disadvantage, that implies the known range of the new 60kWh version a year in advance, which I question.

I still find it hard to understand why the built the Bolt as tall as it is, and that they weren’t able to get a better Cd than .308. So they left a lot on the table by not getting the Cd under .29 and then they went for headroom that no one really needs and botched the Area as well. Did they try to make the Bolt look like a clown car and managed to destroy the CdA as a kind of weird bonus?
I like the Bolt but it really isn’t the car that GM needs to build if they want to sell a lot of cars. A smooth, sexy CUV (it is possible) with a low CdA for efficiency and a relatively roomy interior with the Bolt drive train would be very popular. The Bolt as it is will not be all that popular.

I like tall cars better, you can see further! If they can manage to muster over 250 miles range, that’s the real deal! Electricity is so inexpensive, ergonomics become more important

More than 225 is not necessarily less than 238.

Ditto !

True, but if the real number was 238, than one would expect the 40 kWh version to get 158-ish miles of range.

Leafi is sold almost worldwide, Bolt only in North America. Yes, Chevy does sell under Opel few cars in Europe as well, but all other than Norway will get these after 60 kW Leaf and just few hundreds as well.

Forgetting South Korea.

And you can bet the Buick Bolt will be sold in China.

Yep, that is the biggest problem with Bolt/Ampera, it’s almost impossible to get one. At least here in Finland they can’t even confirm when it is going to be available to buy.

I think the new Leaf is going to be much more popular.

Meanwhile, there are a dozen sitting around in lots in Syracuse NY, just waiting to be sold. Maybe that will change now that the (disappointing) 2018 Leaf has premiered?

I agree, I think Bolt sales will near 2500 for September as all the Leaf fence-sitters run over to their local Chevy dealer and pick up a Bolt.

I’ve read the 60 kWh option will have LG Chem cells. That HAS to mean liquid TMS, right? I don’t think an EV with LG Chem cells exists that DOESN’T use liquid TMS.


Doesn’t have to be. But Nissan really should use liquid cooling in a pack that large.

Remember that “LG cells” is not a statement of the composition of the cells. Just that LG manufactures them. Nissan will select the characteristics that best fit their design and it possibly will retain the lack of thermal management.

The batteries won’t be identical to the Bolt. GM owns its battery chemistry.

I would have thought that LG owns LG’s battery chemistry,

GM may well own it’s battery pack configuration however.

GM reps stated they own the chemistry. Thus it isn’t LG’s chemistry.

GM has been working on these higher capacity packs since the Volt 1 came out. It’s not hard to believe they developed (or bought) a chemistry over that time.

Model 3 LR 310 44k
Bolt 238 37.5k
Leaf LR 230 36-37k?
Model 3 ST 220 35k
Leaf ST 150 30k

Things are starting to get very interesting!

Yes, yes they are!

I have no idea why anyone would choose an equivalently priced Leaf with an air-cooled battery over the competition that does not suffer this fatal flaw.

I guess if you are leasing it doesn’t matter?

Yeah Stimy – my friend Brian here watches his 2012 Leaf’s battery temperature like a HAWK and won’t charge during the daytime even at the meager 3.6 kw rate due to fear of losing another bar.

Every ev I’ve ever had pampers the battery, even if it uses some more electricity to do it.

I remember driving my ELR to syracuse and plugging in at a public charger… (3 kw rate) – the car would typically be full after 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 hours but in the hot sunshine the refrigeration required to keep the battery comfortable meant that after 7 hours the battery wasn’t even fully charged yet.

Of course, that is cooling that an equivalent Nissan product would NOT get.

Seems not worth it to risk a 60 kwh expensive battery life’s with.

You are overstating / misrepresenting my position, Bill. When my Leaf reads 6 or more “temperature” bars (over ~80F), I do not charge if I don’t need to. That’s not to say that I will not charge if needed. As for “watching it like a hawk”, really it’s only on the hotter of summer days that the battery gets that high anyway. I haven’t seen 6 bars in about a month, except immediately after charging.

Also, “fear” is a strong word. “Concern” is more like it. I don’t fear losing a second bar – it won’t make the car less usable to me than it already is. And if it did become unusable, well that’s just the kick I need to justify a much-wanted upgrade.

You are absolutely correct about GM babying their batteries. It’s the opposite of what Nissan allows you to do. It’s just that I’m doing what I can to baby it myself, since I don’t have TMS to do it for me.

Not misrepresenting – just using dramatic words to catch the reader’s interest.

Well this will take off sale like crazy. Il dont Care about thermal mangmenet, 60 kw will hardly every fast charge, i live Canada Cold,and m’y leaf has not lost much ,2 or 3 % after 40 miles

You lost that much – 2-3% – After ONE Drive to Work? 40 Miles? Wow! That must Suck! After a Month – that Battery would be Dead!

It would not be so bad, after – 40 Thousand Miles (40,000 Miles), but aft just 40 miles – Wow!
/Sarc ;~)

Thermal management is also about heating the pack. It’s better to heat the pack in the very cold and that’s one of the reasons why the v1 Leaf took a much bigger hit on range in the cold.

Alain – I live in Quebec too. The problem is that if you want to go on long roadtrips during the summer you will severely degrade your battery with only 2 or 3 fast charges in a row. For 5k more I can get a basic Tesla Model 3 and then I don’t have to even worry about it.

I think someone spilled their Starbucks on that memo to engineering – Its supposed to be 60, not 40. This is sad. All these manufacturers are talking about how they will be competitive in the future as if the current products will be stationary. The 2019 Bolt might just be $28,000 and have a 75kWh battery, and the Model 3, Y, whatever, may cost $25,000. But, one thing you can bet on, they wont be the same, they will be better.
So, all those out there who promise their cars will be equal to today’s can take a walk. I will be leasing two new cars early next year, and right now it looks like I will be turning my Leaf’s for Bolts.

The Nissan Leaf in 40kwhr form is 4,500lbs, whereas the 60kwhr Chevy Bolt is around 3,500lbs.

Pretty obvious where the efficiency loss is happening.. massive difference in tire friction, and power requirements under acceleration or hill climbing!

4,500 # is gross vehicle weight (or max weight the Leaf can officially be loaded to). The actual weight is about 1k less.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

No active TMS, No Sale!

This is some pretty bad math going on, Sebastian. Mathematically, the 60kWh pack has 50% more energy than the 40kWh pack (we don’t know about density, no one knows the size). So it should have about 50% more range.

150 plus 50% more (150 * 1.5) is 225.

But usually the pack gets heavier when it gets more energy so the range doesn’t quite get that level of increase due to reduced efficiency. This is how I came up with the figure 210. But 225 is of course possible, as are slightly higher numbers.

There’s so many factors, who cares why at this point? Then it’s possible the Bolt EV could get it’s range increased for 2019…

Even if the Leaf had more range than the Bolt, I’d still prefer the Bolt. The Leaf has a reputation that it will lose half of its range by the time it’s paid for. I’ve experienced this first hand since I have had two Leafs.

The only thing the Leaf has going for it is its cheaper price tag. But I suspect when you go up to the larger battery pack, that price advantage will disappear.

I’d take a Vegas bet that the 60 Leaf will have a MSRP lower than the Bolt and my best guess is it’ll be $34,995…

The other thing it has going for it “ProPilot”…The Bolt EV doesn’t have ACC and with GM’s “blended brakes” comment I wouldn’t be surprised if the Gen1 Bolt will ever get ACC (But maybe the Buick “Bolt”?)…However it’s how Nissan markets it is the real genius as every Leaf review I read mentioned ProPilot…GM offers LKA and ACC on the Volt, they should consider bundling all driver assistance packages into one and give the option a catchy name…

If the 60kWh Leaf (SLX?) is the price you predict, then what happens to the existing S, SV, and SL? Do they all get upgraded to 60kWh? Do they get price cuts?

As I keep saying, how Nissan manages this transition from 40 to 60 packs is by far the most interesting question in the EV arena in the short run.

There is no perfect answer, given that even the most optimistic estimate puts the production cost adder for the 60 pack at +$3,000 over an equivalent 40 model (guesstimating $150/kWh, obviously).

I think the least disruptive thing would be for Nissan to add a new trim level, priced at $39,900, and in a couple of years kill it off and move at least the SL and maybe the SV to 60, and keep the S as the “bargain”.

Leaf has had two battery sizes before, and kept the smaller battery on the base trim only…Yet the cars chief competition is now the $35K Model 3 and the $37.5K Bolt EV therefore I believe they need a bigger battery option for $35K and that could mean in base trim form…

That same “blended brakes” (which it actually has) comment implied the Bolt would get SuperCruise (and sooner than you expect). So I don’t think you have to worry about the Bolt not having ACC for too long.

Is there a source on this? It’s a great idea to bring some much needed hype to the Bolt but nothing I can find on google…I think we would have heard something by now and it’d get caught testing it highways…Supercruise is marketed as a highway system and the Bolt EV is marketed as urban…

“it’s something we are very much readying for consumer use”

Although, reading it now I’m not sure I didn’t misinterpret it. It might mean they would have (semi-)autonomous ride sharing for consumer use, not SuperCruise.

I don’t get how people say the Bolt is marketed as urban. It isn’t marketed that way.

Supercruise is level 3 but highway only…No mention of it coming to the Bolt EV; what could happy a level 4/5 Cruze Automation based system for Lyft, it may or may not require a backup driver just in case… states GM calling it urban…

Yes, way better to lease the Leaf still…

The Bolt System is *designed* to get an awesome city number in order to raise the combined figure. The gear ratio, the motor itself, and the programming of the controller can be made to optimize sub-warp driving energy.

However, I as a customer, and I would imagine others, demand, need, desperately, more highway range than city range. It’s really a matter of hours of driving than miles of driving.

I am fine with 150 miles in the city. My day never gets more discombobulated enough to burn through that. Not without spending several hours on the road. Not without spending much of my detours *on the interstate*. Therefore, Bolt EV’s high city range is silly from the perspective of what customers really need.

Everyone needs highway miles on a trip. Because that decreases your quick charge stops and speeds your trip time.

Speeds your trips is an understatement. Because CCS quick chargers are in short supply, longer legs makes trip planning easier. It makes everything easier. You could say that 217 highway miles would be kind of tricky with a Tesla vehicle with access to their SCs. You can more than say, you can yell, that it’s tricky with a CCS car.

This is not a design decision, it’s physics. A BEV will always get better mileage at a lower speed, unlike an ICE which has to idle at a certain RPM just to keep any torque at all.

“A BEV will always get better mileage at a lower speed, ”

Tesla Model S EPA mileage is better on highway than city.

Bolt is designed for autonomous Lyft. As such, the designers favored upright seating and easy ingress/egress over highway efficiency.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

It is much more logical to assume the Bolt is shaped like it is because it was built on the only platform GM had in the size they needed to make 60kWh go the distance they need.

The Bolt is essentially a Buick Encore at heart. And the Encore had upright seating and easy ingress/egress. So that’s what the Bolt has. GM had no other platform of the same size. Even the Sonic is on the same platform and has relatively upright seating.

Bolt motor is efficient at every rpm. Meaning bolt gets better milage in town due to slower speed.

Model S is heavier, that means additional disatvantage a little sppeds and it has an asynchron motor which needs no magnets but loses efficiency a low speed. This together means efficency of model S in town is really bad. But no one cares, for the reasons you stated. (200 vor 220 miles in town is not relevant)

If you look at Highway efficiency of the bolt you See that its already pretty good. Leaf might be a tad better due to better cd area.

You should probably try a Bolt sometime.

It’s trivial to get 4.0mi/kWh or higher on the highway at 65 or even 70mph. And that’s with the climate control on.

4.0mi/kWh for the 60kWh battery is 240 miles range, which is higher than EPA range.

The Bolt is not bad at highway driving or overly optimized for city as you would imply.

I would expect the 60 kwh pack to go at least as long as the Bolt but maybe Nissan is more conservative than GM and reserves more as spare capacity. That is probably not a bad idea.

Nissan specify their battery with total capacity. And IMO that is troublesome.

Some other, Kia, BMW, VW (the cheater), Hyundai, and GM in the case of the Bolt, but not the Volt, specify the usable capacity.

IMO, nobody care about what you have but can’t use.

“Why does a 60 kWh battery yield 238 miles in the Chevy Bolt, but around 13 miles less in the Leaf.”

I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but the Bolt is a physically smaller car. That really does matter to the amount of drag the car produces at speed, and it’s also a bit lighter, so there’s less mass to accelerate.

The 60kWh Leaf would need to be priced at $30k before incentives to peek my interest. No TMS and a battery degradation history compared to the Chevy battery reliability still makes the Bolt a no brainer deal and yet you can get a Bolt now while still a year away for the 60kWh Leaf. In my humble opinion, Leaf 2.0 is already DOA. This 150 mile Leaf should have been released 2 years ago.

So, if 40kWh gets 150 miles, then assuming same efficiency, wouldn’t 60kWh gets exactly 225 miles?

I mean, unless 40kWh isn’t the real usable range and we don’t know how much usable range is out of the 60kWh, how can 60kWh have more than 1.5x the range of 40kWh?

Why would the 60kWh version be more efficient than the 40kWh version? assuming same motor, drive train and rest of the car except for the battery.

So, there is something fishy there…

Keupert factor? Usable size unknown.

There are still too much variables

Nissan will continue to be the World leader in EVs with these improved models..

With Leaf 2.0, next year’s longer range Leaf and then the SUV EV, Nissan will have so many offerings !!!

Great times for EV buyers! Go Go Nissan !

Nissan is at best the third best choice. It is a poor second to GM, and the GM fleet is sitting in the back seat compared to Tesla. So Nissan is third best at best, and Ford is looking pretty good with their limited range PHEV’s.
Realistically, the best sub-$50k BEV’s are the brand new 3, the months old Bolt and the soon to come Gen II Leaf.
Nissan had the lead and threw it away when they spit on the early Leaf buyers that had horrific range loss problems. And Nissan still hasn’t gotten a real Thermal Management System. Goodbye Nissan. You deserve to lose.

I don’t know why Nissan thinks it is a better option to sell 40 kWh model first and follow up with 60 kWh year later. Nissan will lose huge amount of sales by the time 2018 rolls in to other comparable 60 kWh EVs.

There must be hundreds of thousands of people who had been waiting for that Bolt competitor, and it did not show up. GM is/will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Maybe the same reason that Hyundai felt it made more sense to bring a 125 mile Ioniq to market then follow it up with a 200 mile one later? People roundly criticized Hyundai for that, now they can’t keep up with production. Nissan sells the Leaf globally, the 40kWh version at a lower price point will be well-received.

Quote: “Mathematically, this makes sense. The larger pack is a third more energy dense than the standard 40 kWh pack, and so it should offer a third more of the range.”

Mathematically you claim does not make sense.
The new 60 kWh pack is no a third (33 %) more energy dense than the 40 kWh pack, but a half (50 %) more energy dense, and so it should offer a half (50%) more of the range.”

A third of 40 kWh is only 13,3 kWh.

“More than 225 mile range”, does however makes mathematically sense, since 225 mile is a half (not a third) more than 150 miles.

1,5 * 150 miles = 225 miles
1,333… * 150 miles = 200 miles

You are right, I totally expressed that wrong.


Until CHAdeMO and CSS chargers offer the same type of nation-wide coverage as Tesla, I really don’t get the utility of a pure EV, even one with 150 mile range. Other than the platform, which will be too small for many, the Volt seems to me to strike the right balance.