True Zero’s Hydrogen Network Has Dispensed 250,000 kg Of Hydrogen

MAR 26 2018 BY MARK KANE 50

True Zero, the company that owns largest network of … 18 retail hydrogen stations in California, announced a milestone of 250,000 kg of hydrogen dispensed, good for some 17 million miles of driving (@ 68 miles/109 km per kg).

True Zero’s hydrogen network powers 17 million fuel cell-electric miles in less than 18 months as hydrogen sales surpass a quarter of a million kilograms

According to True Zero, the company received more than $50 million in grants to build the infrastructure, and nine more stations are under development.

In total, with 13 others, there is was 31 retail hydrogen stations in California (~November 2017). Up by one unit in three months, when the 30th was reported on-line.

“True Zero, a California-based company, is the largest fully-dedicated developer and operator of hydrogen stations in the world, with 18 hydrogen stations open now and 9 more under development. The company’s impressive growth has been spurred by over $50 Million dollars in grants received from the California Energy Commission, as well as grants from the South Coast and Bay Area Air Quality Management Districts, and private financing from Toyota and Honda.

The hydrogen sales numbers by True Zero indicate that most California fuel cell vehicle customers are finding no range or daily mileage limitations. Furthermore, their daily and hourly refueling patterns look nearly identical to those of a gasoline car, which indicates that customers are using their fuel cell vehicles without having to change their driving habits.1 The 17 million miles driven on fuel cells cars using True Zero hydrogen translate into 10 million pounds of avoided greenhouse gas emissions (in CO2 equivalency).”

Energy Commissioner Janea A. Scott said:

“The Energy Commission is pleased to support True Zero, a California based company whose leadership is helping pave the way for our transition to a zero-emission transportation future. Surpassing the milestone of dispensing a quarter of a million kilograms of hydrogen demonstrates how government and industry can successfully work together to provide the fueling infrastructure necessary to allow Californians to travel emissions free.”

Joel Ewanick, CEO of True Zero said:

“This is a significant achievement for fuel cells – every day the Honda Clarity and Toyota Mirai are showing us that hydrogen can be a practical replacement for gasoline. Thanks to the commitment from the Energy Commission, electrified vehicles are becoming more and more mainstream, and every day these cars are helping build a better future for our children.”

“These consumer usage patterns are a great indication of the potential for mass adoption. We are at a very early stage of commercialization.  Just imagine in the near future when there are hundreds, or thousands of hydrogen stations open across California and surrounding states.  Driving a fuel cell car will soon be just as convenient as a gasoline car, but with zero emissions.”

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50 Comments on "True Zero’s Hydrogen Network Has Dispensed 250,000 kg Of Hydrogen"

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I’m all for HFCEV advancements; when we colonize Jupiter, all the “Fool Cell” naysayers will eat their words. I hear on Jupiter H is so abundant that it’s in liquid form. Hear on Earth? Not so much.

You mean “Here on Earth,” you moron.

by Chris Moron.
FTFY.

I was wondering what abundance had to do with the hydrogen being liquid. It does since a huge volume of it confined means that it turns from a gas in it’s upper atmosphere to a liquid deeper down due to huge pressure caused by the an abundance of hydrogen and helium.

Hydrogen also has to be under 33 K to liquefy in addition to needing 13 atmospheres of pressure.

Jupiter will never be colonized. Perhaps 1 of the moons.

1 of the far moons, such as IO. Possibly Europa, but only under the ice.
The radiation is intense there.

‘Goldilocks Zone’? Gravity? Gas giant?
We aren’t even capable of colonizing the Moon.

if it were 100% renewably sourced I would have no issues with hydrogen anything.

First off, all the H2 comes by burning methane.
Secondly, this is far more expensive than simply using the methane itself.

Perhaps this clean natural gas to H2 conversion would work, the Hazer conversion process with a commercialization timetable: http://www.hazergroup.com.au/wp/wp-cont … qh2yrt.pdf

And also Jupiter’s moon Titan.

The part I don’t understand is how did all those dinosaurs get there? They must need many fossils for this ‘fossil fuel’.

Of course, when anyone who WORKS IN THE OIL INDUSTRY even MENTIONS the concept of Abiotic production, all the self-appointed BIG EXPERTS (especially those who believe all the LUNA stories) constantly cat-call them.

Since the earth and the other planets are all members of the same solar system, I don’t quite see the problem of similar mechanisms on the various planets acting similarly.

“…those who believe all the LUNA stories…”

Which Luna stories?

Is the “NASA’s lunar landings were faked” conspiracy theory among the many conspiracy theories you actually believe are true, Bill? Sadly, that would not surprise me, given all the other conspiracy theories you have fooled yourself into believing.

It’s not hard to “believe” in a non-biological origin for simple hydrocarbons, like methane. Not hard to believe because it can be, and has been, fairly easily demonstrated in the laboratory that non-biological processes can form simple hydrocarbons from raw elements, when a source of energy such as static electricity (or lightning) is provided. Contrariwise, complex hydrocarbons such as petroleum from non-biological processes… not so much. It might be possible to find microscopic amounts, but certainly not the vast underground rivers or lakes or seas that the “aboiotic oil” conspiracy theorists claim really exist.

But hey, they only need to find just one deposit to prove they are right. So far, oddly enough, the only “proof” they have offered is claiming that some known sources of petroleum are non-biological in origin; ridiculous science-denier claims which have been easily and thoroughly disproven.

I’m referring to you lecturing me regarding atmospheric pressure and how trivial it is, proven BY YOU that YOUR Luna stories have shown that sitting on a hole in the space ship will sufficiently seal the passenger compartment from deep space, your words not mine. These were some author’s flights of fancy – one of the advantages of writing Science Fiction. Does not have to be based in reality. Incidentally, they have proven (you just admitted it in your posting, essentially) that Abiotic fuel manufacutre exists. Its the lack of evidence that ‘fossil fuels’ actually are, – proof of that is still to be forthcoming. I’m not saying it can’t happen, its just that no proof of it has been found as of yet, even though in all general conversation it is ‘of course’ assumed that it has. Of course, I usually go by the simplest explanation that takes into account all the facts, so that it is not that difficult for me to accept that since Abiotic production exists in quantity (Titan for instance, has enough Methane for the next 50,000 years of earth’s needs, at current consumption rates), it might exist on earth also since the last time… Read more »

Methane occurrences in the Earth’s crust are predominantly of biogenic origin, i.e. their ultimate source is biologically formed organic matter. Methane can also form through inorganic reactions and is consequently termed abiogenic. Biogenic methanes can either form through bacterial or thermogenic processes.

They wanted to fake the moon landings, but Stanley Kubrick insisted on filming on location.

huh.
Does H2O have any meaning to you?

Sorry I thought it would be obvious I was talking about CH4, not water.

250k kg of H at $16.50/kg that is in San Diego means $4.1 million dollars. That’s peanuts, but let’s see how many people will pay 3X more than gasoline to drive a Corolla when H is no longer free. I suspect zero, hence the name, True Zero.

Finally, the Hygrogen proponents never talk about the retail cost. This is where the argument must be made. It’s simply, truthful and the bottom line.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Give the sh1t for free and gettem hooked then charge them later.
The drug dealer effect…….lol

Finally? I’ve been arguing outrageous retail H prices on all FCEV articles. Only a fool would pay 3X gasoline prices to drive a Corolla, and H price hasn’t gone down in a year unlikely to do so.

People don’t care about CO2 or climate change as you can see from giant SUV/trucks stuck in traffic by solo drivers in your commute. If H price is lower and/or provide tangible benefit over gasoline cars for the end user, it could be something. But FCEV provide literally zero benefit over gasoline cars while costing 3X more to refuel. The idea of FCEV is a joke, a very expensive one for CA tax payers.

Sure, just lease some $1000/month half baked car from certain automaker, pay some 100 cents/mile just for depreciation, and you can “save” small fraction of your $1000/month payment spending time on charger dreaming about bright future. What a “fool” would pay $350/month with fuel and options included instead?

Sometimes it looks like it is necessary to fail elementary school math exams to qualify for E. Church membership /s

I see the Russian troll farm has opened back up since Comrade zzzzz is here to repeat his same tired, repeated FUD against Tesla just as I stated that man of the serial trolls are also fool cell shills.

Talk all you want about $350/mo lease, but you can lease a Corolla or Cruze for about $100/mo and $100/mo in fuel. FCEV is far more expensive even with “free fuel” even if fuel price is the same as gasoline.

Instead of dodging the issue, tell me just one benefit of FCEV over comparable gasoline cars FOR THE END USER. There isn’t one!

Electric drive.
HFCVs have the same smooth power delivery as EVs and (based on reviews I’ve read) are pretty quiet.

Also, with the only emissions being water, you should be able to run them inside a garage if you want to pre-condition.

“I suspect zero, hence the name, True Zero.”
Bahaha!
You win!
True Zero is indeed a very ironic name for H distributor.

68 miles/109 km per kg

That mean 50 000 car refill. If you consider 1fill a week, so 50 fill per year. Then you are talking about 1000 i—t who buy a hydrogen car.

Hey, how’s my arithmetic? Is that $2.7M per station? By these figures, that’s $2.94 per mile driven, assuming nobody pulled up with their hydrogen-powered garbage truck, of course. Compare this 17m miles to the 835 million miles on the Chargepoint network alone:
https://www.chargepoint.com/files/ChargePointFacts.pdf

Add in all the charge-at-home, other networks, and the fact that Tesla vehicles, a year ago, hit the 4 Billion miles driven, and I must admit, the FCEV accomplishment is diminutive to the point that I can no longer contain my amusement.

Great job, True Zero. You are living up to your name.

At $2.7M per and 31 stations, that’s $83.7M. Meanwhile, 250K kg of H even at $16.50/kg is only $4.1M, and profit is probably lot less, if any. Had they invested in common cellular companies stocks, let alone some other dividend ones, they’d be getting about $5M just in dividends. Actual return would be more due to market appreciation over time.

True Zero truly zeroing out your investment! Foolish indeed.

You better check how much California taxpayers and ratepayers pay for these pathetic 50 kW one-car charging stations, and now going to pay for Level 2 stations too. All information is open and available online. But you don’t care of course.

Hint: it may be even more than H2 stations for the same capacity.

Getting an EV charger installed at home generally costs something between $500-2000, depending on how much work the electrician has to do and how much he gauges — er, gouges — his customers. (See what I did there? 🙂 )

Contrast with: An H2 fueling station’s construction cost — just the cost of construction, ignoring the high maintenance costs — comes to about $11,900 per car (napkin math below).

Just how stupid would someone have to be, to believe this is a sustainable business model?

Once again, we see that the arguments from fool cell fanboys are complete and total bull pucky. And since they always are, it’s quite clear that they know they don’t have any honest arguments.

* * * * *

Case study: $3 million H2 fueling station

Serves (at most, if everything is working and the supply trucks come as scheduled) 36 FCEVs per day.

Assumption: Each FCEV is filled once per week. 36 x 7 = 252. So that comes to a $3 million H2 station being able to serve (optimistically) 252 cars.

$3 million ÷ 252 = $11,905 (cost per car)

Your car study is not right. You need to look at it over the usable life of the station, not just one week (which is I read what you have done is how it looks to me).
I’d prefer to look at it on a per day refill rate vs the same money spent on EV chargers and how many vehicles that could recharge. So 36 vehicles would be the same as how many BEV’s?

More false equivalency by the Russian Troll zzzzz. Makes you wonder if he used to be on the pro-Trump team back at Russian troll central?

“check how much California taxpayers and ratepayers pay for these pathetic 50 kW”

Difference is that H is a joke where it costs 3X gasoline even with tax subsidized and unlikely to have demand outside of free fuel period. That makes H spending total waste where as 50 kW units will have some utility for some years to come.

17 million miles/ 12 thousand miles per year per vehicle is 1,416 2/3 vehicle-years.

To think we were _disappointed_ that it wasn’t quite 200,000 plug-ins sold last year. Apparently we should have been impressed.

Since the ‘Average Maintenance Cost’ in California Dispenseries is, per the latest info by ZZZZZZZZZ, $24/Kg, it will be interesting to see if this company can come in under the broad average a bit.

Just as Einstein has said the Nuclear Power plants are a “Hell of a way to boil water”, it wouldn’t surprise me if he’d say “H2 infrastructure and its ultimate cost” is a hell of a way to push a car.

LMAO, not only is the H2 heavily subsidized, so is the filling stations AND the cars themselves!

How long can they keep up the charade because without these massive and ongoing subsidies fool cell cars are totally DOA in an economics and infrastructure sense.

Its no wonder that many of the serial anti-Tesla shills, shorters and haters keep pushing the H2 unicorn of a hydrogen hoax for at least light duty transportation.

I don’t know, most of them also roundly pound on FCV as being impractical. Very few defenders of FCV left.
There are practical uses for the technology but not as personal transportation.

It is certainly true that the ranks of fool cell fanboys have mostly evaporated, almost as quickly as hydrogen leaking out of a FCEV’s tank. 😉

It is also notable that the few diehards who still post fool cell fanboy comments to InsideEVs article are all — every single on of them — also hardcore serial Tesla bashers.

Coincidence? I think not!

The truth is that even those who were originally supporters of the “hydrogen economy” have come to realize how utterly impractical it is. Wishful thinking eventually gives away to reality. The few diehard fool cell fanboys left, all have a not-so-hidden agenda of trying to sabotage the EV revolution and/or the public image of Tesla Inc.

I doubt a single one of those posting fool cell fanboy comments here truly believes FCEVs will ever be practical. Their comments are aimed at uneducated and/or gullible readers. Everyone else knows better than to believe this B.S.

According to the handy H2 station finder app, 9 of those 31 H2 stations are offline at the moment. And the reviews for some of the stations like the one in West Sacramento aren’t very favorable:

1/28/2018
“Just tried to refuel since app showed station online, but it’s down. Wasting my time & fuel. The only fueling station within 70 miles.”

1/14/2018
“Had to drive all the way to San Ramon to refuel because the station was off-line. Would very much appreciate it if better customer service will be provided. This is the only station in my Sacramento and is greatly needed.”

8/10/2017
“Frequently offline, and or have to double or triple pump in order to get a full tank. Card reader sometimes malfunctions. Maintenance frequently needed.”

Boo Hoo! I bought a car that can only refill from a very special H2 station and it’s broken! What a dummy I must be?
At least if you took a chance on the BEV you always have the opportunity to recharge from any power point. H2 is a real gamble, and looking at how much it costs to facilitate fuelling stations vs BEV infrastructure, it really just doesn’t make sense why California is continuing to fund this. Maybe those decision makers were the Dummies that are driving H2 vehicles and have a vested interest?

17 million miles. Ohhhh, what an impressively big number!

But let’s put that into perspective, hmmm?

The average American car is driven ~14,000 miles per year, so 17 million miles would be driven by 1214 cars. If every car is filled once a week, that comes to 173.4 cars filled per day.

Reality check: Altho the estimated number of cars serviced by an average gas station per day varies widely, one website reports that the average California gas station services ~1100 cars per day. Let’s say that again: Eleven hundred cars serviced per day by one single average gas station.

So, ~173.4 fool cell cars filled per day, total, by 18 H2 fueling stations? Color me unimpressed. Very unimpressed. That indicates each H2 fuel station serves 0.876% — less than one percent — of the customers that an average gas station serves.

And let’s not forget that at $2-3 million apiece, those H2 fueling stations cost a lot more to build (and to maintain) than that average gas station, too!

As I’ve pointed out before: Hydrogen powered FCEVs are not “fool cell” cars because of the fuel cell stack. They’re “fool cell” cars because of the fuel they use.

Hydrogen cars will only ever be useful when…
1.) We have at least one station every 50 to 100 miles along every highway in the US
2.) Each station can handle at least 4 cars at once.
3.) The prices of said stations are cost-competitive with gas.
4.) You can refuel them at home evernight, eliminating the need for stopping at a local station every week.
5.) Another requirement is that all of the stations actually function reliably.
6.) Manufacturers need to produce hundreds of thousands per year, also the need to have models ranging from inexpensive sedans to luxury sedans and crossover SUVs to high-performance supercars to semi trucks.

So far no hydrogen fool cell manufacturers have demonstrated any of those. Only Tesla has came through on all most of those fronts, but they do not produce fool cells, they only make real electric vehicles.

1) Infrastructure provision is something of a chicken and egg situation. If they were cost-competitive everything else would fall into place.
2) Chicken and egg.
3) That’s an actual issue
4) No. Refueling rate is fast enough to be able to copy gasoline model. Home refueling is just something that PEV owners like. Volume of refueling per station has been a problem though.
5) That’s an actual issue
6) That’s an actual issue, primarily one of cost. The technology itself is otherwise clearly scalable.

As always … nothing wrong with fuel cells, everything wrong with hydrogen fuel cell used in transportation vehicles.

I’m glad you Americans have more money than brains. You spent $50mil to install 18 H2 stations (as far as I can tell they are single pump?) so that about 2000 cars can refill.
You could have spent that same $50mil to install 500 $100k DC chargers to service about 100,000+ BEV vehicles.
Seriously weird way to allocate your funds. Now a couple stations to prove the technology, that makes sense, or based on how many vehicles are sold, or maybe 2 stations to prove the infrastructure and then the manufacturer bears the cost because the benifits are there. But no problem, there is obviously too much money in the coffers, so $50mil is nothing.

Kubrick pulled a “Victor/Victoria” (woman in drag pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman) and went to the moon besides? I didn’t think he worked that cheap.