Toyota Debuts Corolla PHEV With 31 Miles Of Electric Range, BEV C-HR SUV Coming

APR 25 2018 BY MARK KANE 93

Toyota announced that by the end of 2020, it will offer in China 10 new electrified vehicles.

Toyota Levin PHEV version

The first two plug-ins were unveiled at the 2018 Beijing Auto Show:

  • Toyota Corolla PHEV
  • Toyota Levin PHEV

Both will be rated at up to 50 km (31 miles) of range and introduced on the market in 2019.

In 2017, Toyota introduced conventional hybrid versions of Corolla and Levin, produced locally. Also, the PHEVs will be manufactured locally.

Read Also – Toyota Prius Prime Accounts For Over 35% Of Total Prius Sales In U.S.

The next new energy vehicles will be all-electric compact SUVs, hinted for 2020:

  • Toyota C-HR BEV
  • Toyota IZOA BEV

We need to note that the C-HR/IZOA seems to be one and the same car in two versions, made by two joint venture companies: “C-HR” (by GAC Toyota Motor Co., Ltd.) and “IZOA” (by FAW Toyota Motor Sales Co., Ltd.)

The Japanese company includes hybrid in its “electrified” classification, so we can’t be certain if there will be more plug-ins or just conventional hybrids.

“Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) announced today that it plans to introduce to the Chinese market plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) versions of its “Corolla” and “Levin” passenger cars in 2019 and a battery electric vehicle (BEV) model based on its “C-HR” / “IZOA”* compact SUV in 2020. Including these, Toyota plans to introduce 10 new electrified vehicles in China by the end of 2020. And, by further promoting its local production of electric motors (powertrain components), batteries, inverters, and other electrified-vehicle core technologies, Toyota aims to further accelerate its China-based vehicle electrification efforts.

The PHEV versions of the Corolla and Levin were unveiled today during the opening day of the Beijing Motor Show. Both models are expected to have a BEV driving range of 50 kilometers or greater, and in 2019, Toyota will begin producing them in China, marking Toyota’s first overseas production of PHEVs.”

Toyota C-HR and IZOA (Internal combustion engine version)

“With an aim to achieve locally based vehicle electrification, Toyota has been working with its Chinese partners and members of the Toyota Group to build a local production base for key components. Efforts have included the launch in 2015 of production of transaxles for hybrid electric vehicles (HEV) at Toyota Motor (Changshu) Auto Parts Co., Ltd. (TMCAP). Going forward, Toyota intends to respond to further expected growth in demand for electrified vehicles through such measures as increasing the annual production capacity for nickel-metal hydride battery modules at Sinogy Toyota Automotive Energy System Co., Ltd. (STAES) and Corun PEVE Automotive Battery Co., Ltd. (CPAB) to 220,000 units in 2020.

To accelerate its vehicle electrification in China, Toyota is also strengthening its local R&D and production bases. In 2020, it plans to open a new battery testing facility at Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing (China) Co., Ltd. (TMEC), which is Toyota’s R&D center in China, for evaluating battery packs for electrified vehicles. And, with its sights set on introducing BEVs in 2020, Toyota is steadily enhancing its local production structures.

In 2017, including sales of the “Corolla Hybrid” and “Levin Hybrid” installed with locally produced hybrid units, Toyota sold approximately 140,000 electrified vehicles in China. That brought its cumulative total of electrified vehicles sold in the country to approximately 350,000 units, and Toyota plans to continue enhancing its electrified-vehicle lineup.

As for fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs), Toyota is exploring potential applications for its fuel cell technology in China. Last year, it began a three-year verification-test program in China that uses Toyota’s “Mirai” FCEV, and it has expanded the scope of feasibility studies to include commercial vehicles such as buses.

Toyota Senior Managing Officer and Chief Executive Officer, China Region, Kazuhiro Kobayashi said today at the Beijing Motor Show, “We are steadily and confidently advancing all aspects of our environmental strategy in China, the world’s most-advanced country in electrification.”

*To be sold in China as a “C-HR” (by GAC Toyota Motor Co., Ltd.) and as an “IZOA” (by FAW Toyota Motor Sales Co., Ltd.)”

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93 Comments on "Toyota Debuts Corolla PHEV With 31 Miles Of Electric Range, BEV C-HR SUV Coming"

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*in China

DAMNIT. #%$*@# DAMNIT, UNITED STATES GOP CONGRESS, YOU MILQUETOAST WEENIES, NOT ATTRACTING MORE EVS.

Yes, it’s true: by favoring the fossil fuel industry, the GOP is turning the United States into a 3rd world country.

It’s not just the GOP…let’s be honest here.

Okay, it’s the hard-right wingnuts who, with the aid of Russian troll farms, now control the GOP, the U.S. Congress, the White House, and quite a few U.S. State governments.

No, it is the leftists who hate America.

That must be why Reagan and Republican board rooms sent jobs out of the U.S. to increase corporate profits, or why they added trillions to the national debt during Reagan, Bush and W.

Okay, it’s the hard-right wingnuts who, with the aid of RADICAL ANTI-AMERICAN LEFTISTS WHO TURN ALL RATIONAL VOTERS AWAY FROM THE DEMOCRAT PARTY, now control the GOP, the U.S. Congress, the White House, and quite a few U.S. State governments.

There you go Pu-Pu, I fixed it for you.

Turn off Laura Ingraham, buddy. The Dem party and punditry is flush with refugee Republicans of past decades. Flush. Show me a Dem pundit and I’ll show you a former mainstream Republican, an ideological refugee, just trying to advocate effective, truth-loving, efficient government, kicked out with extreme prejudice and ample amounts of inexplicable, seemingly unquenchable hatred tapped from Beelzebub himself.

I’m one of them. I voted for HW Bush and Dole and W on the first round.

Either you’re confused or you (and I suppose others) are maniacally turned off by something I don’t understand and I doubt you’re eloquent enough to describe. And like I tell my kids, unless you can explain your issue, it’s not going to get specific amelioration.

I’m here to listen.

Sounds like you are another milk toast ex Republican refugee in the DemonCrat party. What are you complaining about? You are just like them.

The only thing all the Russian Investigations, ‘golden showers’ et al, over the past year and a half, has been missing, has been Russians.

The news is obviously distorted under your rock. Wasn’t just recently that they indicted a bunch of them for election interference? Don’t answer that….

Man are you behind the times. No Russians involved dude. But Comey now has a few legal troubles. Try to keep up.

And there are some nice affordable little electric SUV’s coming to China. And VW and Honda electric compact cars that most find attractive, which will not be offered in N America. Welcome to the Idiocracy.

Sounds like an adopted Prime power train.

A better looking Prius Prime is a good thing, make the wagon version one too.

Up to 31 miles… by 2019. So maybe by 2025 Toyota will hit Gen1 Volt AER of 38 miles.

NK. How long is that in dog years?

They had minivans that could seat 8 20 years ago. Why does Volt only have seating for 4.5 passengers in 2018?

Families are shrinking in size, and even smaller in size in China!

The point I was trying to get at is that not every car needs to check off all the requirements boxes for everyone. There will be many people for whom 50 km electric range (in a PHEV) is all they need, and they would rather not pay for a bigger battery.

Not every car, but every plug-in, IMO, should cover daily driving needs for most people, which is approx 40 miles. It’s been over 10 years, and Toyota still hasn’t done that, other then the Tesla Rav 4 which quickly vanished.

I personally agree, but if everyone had a PHEV with 20 mile AER instead of an ICE most of them would cut their gas usage in half or more.

I’m with you. With a 40 to 50 mile range, you have several advantages. The battery isn’t used as hard, the battery range is more likely to be usable after 10 years as the capacity drops over time, and battery range is more likely to usable when using a PTC electric heater to supply cabin heat in the winter.

I think Honda and Chevy are spot on.

A 20-30 mile PHEV charged at home covers the vast majority of drivers. Add a short charge while working, during lunch, or running errands around town, etc., and most driving is in EV tremendously reduces gas consumption. Commutes of 40+ miles each way means 20-25,000 miles per year so way above the norm.

PHEV’s are meant to greatly reduce gasoline use not eliminate it; that’s a BEV’s job.

If they had allowed for complete EV driving for 20 Kms, I would have agreed with you, however in these cars based on Prius template, the motors are puny and engines come on frequently during routine driving, which really negates the whole EV experience.

It does to some extent, but even if the gas engine runs some and it is draining the battery it is still saving gas. So maybe not EV experience, but still gas savings, which is the main goal.

No, that is quite incorrect.

Prius Prime has a one-way clutch that combines both electric-motors for increased power to deliver a full EV driving experience up to 84 mph.

Notice that at no time during this recent commute I filmed did the engine start, despite driving on the 70 mph highway with the heater running… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-VFEfDDkSU

Again, that assumption is not how the system actually works. Watch the gauges. It can pull up to 68 kW from the battery-pack. That’s more than enough power for everyday driving entirely in EV.

But why? A significant percent of people drive 100+ km/day. And a significant percent drive 20 km or less per day. If you have a backup gas engine for long trips anyway, why should the same vehicle cover the need of those two people who drive very different distances? It’s absurd to me that the general consensus here is that every PHEV needs 80+ km electric range. Why not 100 km? Why not 150 km, which covers the needs of 99.9% of people? Only sensible thing to do is to give market the choice and let it decide!

Because ~40 miles is the sweet spot. You need to look at the bell curves/data, and you’ll see that’s where you get the most bang for your buck. Using terms like “significant percent” is really a subjective statement. The design goals should be to cover the majority of drivers/customers, not outliers, with the most cost effective solution. Form follows function. Preventing cold engine starts is also a desirable goal.

No, it”s not. The sweet spot in most bang for your buck is way lower than that. And to cover most peoples daily driving 25 miles are more than enough.

But… every mile of range added increases the percentage of miles being run on electricity and hopefully even the Volt will in the future become an range extended EV with at least 100 miles range to cover over 90% of the miles.

“Most people’s daily driving 25 miles is more than enough”. Sorry but the data just doesn’t agree with you. Even a conservative recent study by AAA has 30 miles as the average. I can start pulling up links, or you can do some digging yourself, but this has been discussed for many years. Note averages aren’t good metrics either. Bell curves show a much better representation of driving. You also need to consider, 40 miles in an EV is best case scenario weather. Run the AC or the heater and watch what happens. For example my Volt hits 40 miles in the summer time, but come fall it starts dropping to 30. And during the winter cold months, its down to 25 miles.

Please show us that data.

Then keep in mind that the even if the engine runs, it will on be a tiny amount of gas.

Most people will be perfectly content seeing 200 MPG for their daily drive.

“Most people will be perfectly content seeing 200 MPG for their daily drive.”
————
You don’t speak for most people, especially those that drive EVs. And being “content” is not a design goal. Cold starts should also be prevented, no matter what care is taken pre-cold-start. People who own PHEVs in the real world will attest to this. They don’t like it when the engine comes on. They will do what they can to prevent this, even changing hardware to prevent starting due to temps.

Volt stats has a nice collection of real world data. Notice the green bars, which spike at 40 miles, is only EV miles. If you added in the blue bars for when gas is used, it pushes the peak even further to the right.

https://image.ibb.co/kzZFjH/Miles.jpg

Here’s another infographic. Notice the plug-ins aren’t driven as much as the national average, yet the Volt is at 41 miles/day average. Also notice that the LEAF with it’s limited range is driven even less yet. I don’t like averages, but it’s still data.
https://evobsession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/who-drives-electric-cars.jpg

Know your audience.

Current EV owners are not representative of ordinary consumers. They are early-adopters, which have very different priorities from mainstream buyers.

Assuming they are the same is a mistake known as “innovator’s dilemma”. This is when audience changes as a new product attempts to grow sales, but the aspects of appeal are different from that of the original audience. The results is a struggle to draw new interest.

In this case, the assumption is being made that EV range is of the highest importance for purchase criteria. A great recent example of this mistake is with Volt. GM assumed increasing battery capacity would result in significant sales growth; instead, it made no difference.

Mainstream buyers place a much greater emphasis on purchase price. This is why Corolla PHEV holds a much greater potential for high-volume sales. It will be affordably priced, able to compete directly with its traditional counterpart even without a tax-credit.

That’s called bait & switch, and Toyota should know better. What is happening is a bunch of people buying low-end plugins and finding out they wish they had more EV range after some ownership time. Toyota get’s the CARB credits and buys themselves more time to come out with an EV with more range. The customer gets screwed. Luckily for mainstream consumers, the EV community is doing its best to educate the public so that new buyers don’t fall for this trap. Unfortunately many still have been.

That’s called bait & switch, and T0y0ta sh0uld kn0w better. What is happening is a bunch 0f pe0ple buying l0w-end plugins and finding 0ut they wish they had m0re EV range after s0me 0wnership time. T0y0ta get’s the CARB credits and buys themselves m0re time t0 c0me 0ut with an EV with m0re range. The cust0mer gets screwed. Luckily f0r mainstream c0nsumers, the EV c0mmunity is d0ing its best t0 educate the public s0 that new buyers d0n’t fall f0r this trap. Unf0rtunately many still have been.

“GM assumed increasing battery capacity would result in significant sales growth; instead, it made no difference.”
———-
Lots of logical fails here. 1) You don’t know what GM “assumed” or what their motivations were 2) Without knowing what sales would have been w/out the increased range, no accurate predictions can be made about how it affected sales. There are some data points I know of where people specifically purchased a Gen2 over a Gen1 for the increased range saying it was necessary.

The goal was to increase sales beyond niche volime. That didn’t happen.

Who’s goal? Who defines niche? What else would motivate a longer AER?

GM and Ford are dropping cars because their sales are too low for them to sustain a profitable level.

Yesterday I had pizza for lunch.

Auto makers offer a wide variety of gasmobile passenger vehicles, large and small, to cover the needs of most people. We’ll know that auto makers are serious about selling plug-in EVs when we see them offering the same wide variety, and not merely offering them in niches where they aren’t selling a lot of gasmobiles.

I do give credit to Toyota for pricing the plug-in Prius Prime as low as or even lower than non-plug-in Prii, but the woefully short ~25 mile EV range certainly isn’t going to cover most people’s daily driving needs! Half a loaf is better than none, but that’s more like a third of a loaf.

Because they don’t want the Volt to offer any real competition to their better-selling models of gasmobiles, that’s why. And that’s why the Bolt EV is so ugly and has uncomfortable front seats; they don’t want that to compete, either!

This is a different cycle, so more like EPA range of low to mid 20s like many other PHEVs.

These PHEVs are all 31 mile/50 km range for a reason: they must have 50 km range to be considered a PHEV in China.

Speaking of compliance, Volt Gen 2 got 2 credits since it had AER over 50 miles, but this year it gets about 1 credit. GM has no reason to continue the Volt line (other than for loyal customers) as they no longer benefit (as much) from making it high range like they did before. I expect Volt will go away, replaced by BEVs and lower range PHEVs.

Actually, I would expect almost all PHEVs to go to about 31 mile range (low 20s EPA) because in China, the Volt gets the same 2 NEV credits as the Prius Prime. There is no incentive for manufacturers to make long range PHEVs, only BEVs.

There’s no “incentive” for automakers to make large trucks, but they do. Okay, their incentive is profit. My point is that we should be getting close to price parity for electrified models, with similar costs to build and similar profit margins. At that point, it doesn’t really matter what the incentives are, and that’s a good thing.

Although some of us prefer the extra AER and a gas engine, I think it is clear by Prius Prime sales in the US that a lower price and smaller battery would spur sales. People paying over $30k want a BEV. The general market is different than the Volt market. I don’t think the Volt has a big enough market to keep it around, but maybe GM will just to make fans happy. Hard to say. My suspicion is it fades away after the current generation.

One only has to look at the sales of the BMW i3 to see that there is a pretty large market for PHEVs with longer range. The vast majority of i3’s are sold with the REx range extender, not as standalone BEVs. Customers have indicated a strong preference for a gas-powered range extender!

I think GM could sell plenty of longer-range PHEVs with Voltec powertrains, if they would make them in cars larger than the tiny Volt, and less expensive than the ridiculously overpriced (but still too small) Cadillac ELR.

I thought GM said it would be putting a Voltec drivetrain into a Buick. So where is that, hmmm?

The majority of i3’s sold in the U.S. are REx models, but that might not be true worldwide. E.g., the i3 BEV sells very well in Norway due to government incentives and likely the desire of many to eliminate ICE maintenance, emissions, weight, etc.

The Voltec drivetrain is in a Buick, the Buick Velite 5. It’s just only in China, unfortunately.
https://insideevs.com/buick-confirms-velite-5-erev-will-launch-china/

Luckily they have about another 20 electrified vehicles coming in the next few years, so hopefully we’ll see more.

EDIT: Holy cow I love the new edit buttons. 🙂

The BMW i3 has sold less units in 4 years than the Model 3 will sell in the next 3 or 4 months. People only buy them when they can get them for $20k off MSRP with tax credits and other incentives, like $10k from the power company, etc. I flew to CA to buy a beautiful used 2015 i3 Rex for about $23k with 5k miles. It was basically new.

It doesn’t have to fade away. They could transplant the exact same power train in heavier vehicles and easily get 35 to 40 miles of AER.

“These PHEVs are all 31 mile/50 km range for a reason: they must have 50 km range to be considered a PHEV in China.”

…..so while in the US the EPA is MIA California and China step up and lead the world forwards

And 31miles on the Chinese cycle? Which is not very realistic.

I can’t believe i’m jealous at China now! This is what you get for having administrations that take science as anecdotal and religion as factual.

Religion?
More like the Religion of Fossil Fuel CEO’s!

When you can’t breathe and you have some of the worst air-pollution in the world, now improving somewhat, the politics of denial are not very effective.

I don’t think China’s exactly the poster boy for environmental stewardship. In 2015, China produced 71% of its electricity using coal. That compares poorly to the US, which produced only 31% of its electricity from coal in 2017. And even that doesn’t tell the whole story, since much of the plants in China have very little emissions regulations compared to the US.

The US is pretty darn clean by comparison, even with the current Republican push to relax regulation.

“In 2015, China produced 71% of its electricity using coal.”

…and in 2017 it was down to 60% which is still high but that is a significant delta in two years.

Yeah. China is worse than the U.S. as far as air pollution and coal used to generate electricity, but it’s improving a lot more rapidly.

Fat people can lose weight a lot faster than skinny people. But skinny people still look better in a swim suit.

Fair…but at the end of the day, they have more evs and options than we do. That’s what’s bugging me.

The current administration is irreverent to what is happening today…
Chinas rise and the USAs decline has been 30 plus years in the making by Democrats and Republicans who destroy the country in two different ways…

I would think if Toyota offered a PHEV Corolla globally, they wouldn’t be able to build enough. As long as they don’t cripple it with reduce interior space or trunk volume to fit the batteries in.

The CH-R is not an SUV.

Though some may classify it different, it actually is a subcompact SUV depending on who you ask. C-HR is “Coupe-High Rider.” Car and Driver calls it a crossover. The EPA calls it a compact car. Cars.com says “The C-HR is the same size as subcompact SUVs like the Honda HR-V, Jeep Renegade, and Chevrolet Trax.” Toyota lists it in its Crossovers and SUVs category.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/c-hr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_C-HR

Wow 31 miles electric range, how impressive…

That’s actually above average for PHEVs, or at least the ones sold outside China. All too many PHEVs have an EV range of less than 30 miles. The Toyota Prius Prime is one example of that, and that’s up from the previous version. The 2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in was rated at only 11 miles of EV range!

Still, the Volt was rated at 35 miles of EV range in its debut year, and has gotten better since. Sad that nobody has caught up with where GM was in 2010 with PHEV tech, except Honda with its Clarity PHEV, which is rated at 47 miles of EV range.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/04/plug-hybrid-electric-vehicles-available-purchase-usa/

Even though China is especially in the news this week because of the auto show, it does show you where apparently the future lies. And every western auto maker is scrambling to make cars there – especially since China relaxed the rule regarding 51% Chinese ownership of the companies.

Not much happening in the USA? That’s what you get when supposed Loud Mouth ‘Self – Styled’ supporters of electric vehicles refuse to USE their own money to purchase one, yet tell the rest of US who really support EVs (I’m personally on my 5th) exactly how to think.

Yeah, sure….that’s the problem….not the pathetic lineup the car makers have or their unwillingness to sell the little they have.

Exactly!

The GM cars I have purchased – (VOLT (2011 and 2012), ELR, and BOLT ev) all have been award-winning cars – the ELR being the best handling hybrid (plug in or not) they have EVER tested. Neither it nor the VOLT uses much gasoline, and the BOLT ev uses ZERO as it is totally electric. So you guys calling them pathetic is just ignorant and silly. My Tesla Roadster used by far the most gasoline of any vehicle over the time of my ownership than any other vehicle I have ever owned – it constantly being flat-bedded to Service Centers hundreds of miles away and back, or by having Tesla Rangers coming from either Boston, or Green Bay Wisconsin and back (several times) to repair it. The car was only electric while I was driving it. “Not wanting to sell ev’s”. NOW THAT IS a HOT ONE! I guarantee you go into ANY DEALERSHIP that sells ev’s, and loudly ANNOUNCE you want to pay exactly the MSRP (no one does – except if you buy from Tesla) , and you’ll have the general manager roll out the red carpet for you faster than you’d think.

What is exactly? Please name a ‘pathetic’ ev. I don’t know about you ‘closet keyboard warriors’ but I support ev’s with my purchases of them.

Name an EV that is ‘pathetic’ and please describe exactly why it is.

Old leaf, 500e, eGolf, Ionic, Smart, yourself…..all for different reasons which are too obvious to mention.

I am personally a Pathetic Electric Vehicle? Why do they let creeps on here?

Unlike Creeps, I and others support Electric Vehicles (all of my purchases have been award winners – so it shows how much you know Mark.ca).

When ICEV sales go down; maybe Toyota will get serious about BEVs.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Sales have already started a decline. Just ask Ford….

https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/25/ford-to-stop-selling-most-small-cars/

Affordable as a priority is still beyond the grasp of some here, who instead continue to focus on factors that haven’t drawn mainstream attention. Sales have clearly confirmed lack of interest. $27,100 base MSRP for Prius Prime is overwhelming proof that Toyota has developed a plug-in hybrid system to compete directly with traditional vehicles… quite unlike those who endorse trade-offs requiring subsidy dependence.

Seeing that tech offered in the body of a Corolla completely eliminates rhetoric of involving aesthetic appeal, as well as show a commitment to ending the reign of guzzlers. Just imagine the rest of the passenger fleet offering a PHEV model… Camry, RAV4, and C-HR are already available in hybrid models. Adding a plug is the next logical step.

Let’s not overlook just how much of an improvement to emissions & efficiency a smaller battery-pack can provide, especially when it can easily be recharged overnight using nothing but a 120-volt outlet. It’s all about finding a way to get ordinary consumers to purchase, who have very different purchase priorities than early-adopters.

Yes, and fellow Japanese auto maker HONDA, what with its fine Clarity PHEV product is giving TOYOTA some healthy needed competition. Already they are starting to increase the cars’ all electric ranges. The Clarity’s 47 mile AER apparently makes them hot under the collar a bit – a good thing.

There’s a huge pricing difference.

AER is not something ordinary consumers are willing to pay a premium for.

Total Nonsense from you John1701 and here is the proof:

My price (after dickering with the general manager) for a NEW 2018 Honda Clarity PHEV (I prefer the cloth seat model) was a bit over $30,000. (including the NYS $1700 credit.). Ignoring the sales tax it would be a mere $22,500 for this FINE UPSCALE MIDSIZE vehicle. The car is cheaper than an equivalent ICE. If I happened to need a 3rd car I would have snapped it up.

Short-Term bargains from early-adopter opportunities have nothing to do with high-volume sales.

Think about how many Corollas are purchased every year.

Why you cling to silly arguments is beyond me, but then that’s why you call yourself Star Trek. Anyone can get that deal just by walking into the showroom. Its not for early adopters only. But it is a higher value than a Toyota Dealer can currently provide.

329,196 sales of Corolla in the United States last year alone.

Focusing solely in initial purchases is intention cherry-picking, a narrative I refuse to support. We all must consider the bigger picture. Think about how quickly the 200,000 tax-credits will be used up. That’s a total per automaker. The small quantity remaining won’t even remotely cover a single vehicle’s product-cycle (generation). It’s a business with the expectation of sustainable high-volume profitable sales.

Calling that a “silly argument” is evidence of not taking the situation seriously.

I explained EXACTLY why your argument is SILLY. Can’t do it tonight since they close at 9 pm, but should I want to, I can go to the local HONDA dealer and get that FANTASTIC deal TOMORROW, or any other business day. Honda can sell plenty of Clarity PHEV’s before they have to worry about losing the $7500 tax credit. But that will be so far in the future that there may be different incentives or pricing anyway.

Its just as SILLY as saying ‘No one wants to sell EV’s’ when I can go TOMORROW and buy one. Obviously, someone wants to sell them otherwise they wouldn’t be sold. DUH!

“All consider the Bigger Picture”.

Nope, The deals and tax credits are what apply to each of us individually.

Personally, I could wait 20 years and get a higher value electric car, than what is on offer this minute. But I don’t want to wait just to satisfy your false argument thankfully.

Bob Lutz said a long time ago that Automakers are agnostic toward their powertrains in their vehicles. They will make what the public wants.

I happen to want electric power trains… That is why I’ve bought 5 of them, and I always tell EVERY DEALERSHIP I enter that “Unless it has a plug on the side of it, I’m not interested in your vehicle”.

Clarity PHEV starts in the low 30s. It is eligible for full tax credit, so price not that different than a similarly equipped Prius Prime and you get a full size car with twice the range.

I think Prius Prime is mainly former Prius owners who won’t buy anything but Toyota, so maybe reason it sells as well as it does.

If you’ve looked at one, the Clarity is BY FAR the superior car. I can live without spooky wavy glass that the Toyota Prime has. Its 6 kw charger also isn’t too shabby.

You would think that perhaps Toyota would be interested in overtaking Civic sales in CA (it was #1 selling car in the state last year) and a PHEV Corolla would certainly be the tool for that job. Why are they afraid to bring it across the Pacific?

So Toyota, GM, etc are saying they can and will produce EV’s but only if they have to. In China, they have to do something to meet the 8-10-12% EV regulation in order to sell their other cars. If the US had the will, we could mandate the same thing and get the same vehicles. But, no cahonas in Congress. Bunch of elected wimps.