Toyota Prius Prime Priced From $27,950 In U.S., 25 Miles Of Electric Range

1 year ago by Eric Loveday 168

Toyota Prius Prime

Toyota Prius Prime

Toyota Prius Prime Debuted This Past March (InsideEVs/Tom M)

Toyota Prius Prime Debuted This Past March (InsideEVs/Tom M)

Price is almost always the number one determining factor in sales for plug-in vehicles and it appears as though Toyota actually hopes to move the new Prius Prime off lots in decent numbers.

Awhile back, Toyota execs went public with lofty sales targets for the new Prius Prime and now with U.S. pricing announced, it seems volume sales are indeed a goal with the new plug-in Prius.

Here’s the pricing breakdown for the Prius Prime in the U.S. (all prices include an $850 delivery fee:

  • Plus $27,950
  • Premium $29,650
  • Advanced $33,950

Those figures do not include the federal tax credit, which is up to $4,500 for all three versions of the Prius Prime. With this included, the lowest-priced Prime could be had for only $23,450. As Autoblog notes, the new Prius is some $3,000 less than the last-generation model.

But what’s even more interesting in regards to price is that the plug-in Prius actually slots in quite well with the entire 2017 Prius lineup (see below). It seems almost as though Toyota is encouraging buyers to get the plug-in version of the car:

2017 Toyota Prius Pricing For Conventional Hybrid Versions

2017 Toyota Prius Pricing For Conventional Hybrid Versions

Beyond pricing, Toyota has announced official EPA estimates for the plug-in Prius. On the MPG side, we see these figures:

  • 55 MPG City
  • 53 MPG Highway
  • 54 MPG Combined

The MPGe rating was released too:

  • 124 MPGe

Update (October 5th):  Overnight, Toyota has quietly changed all its press material to reflect a combined MPGe rating of 133 over the previous 124 MPGe metric…which would make the plug-in the most efficient of all EVs on the road (outpacing the 125 MPGe found in the new Hyundai IONIQ Electric).

Because we like to point out when others make mistakes, here is the “before and after” press clipping and reworking of the talking points from Toyota’s PR department:

Ye Olde MPGe Switcheroo

Ye Olde MPGe Switcheroo

 

In the all-important electric-range category, Toyota has over delivered. Originally, the automaker had stated the Prius Prime would have an all-electric range of 22 miles. However, the official EPA electric range estimate is now 25 miles.

Also of interest:  Check out a full library of just released, US test drive video reviews of the Prius Prime here.

In our eyes, the new Prius Prime is an immediate winner, and has no direct competition at its base price-point when it arrives at year’s end.  It boasts substantially more range than the outgoing model, and is priced to sell in volume.

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168 responses to "Toyota Prius Prime Priced From $27,950 In U.S., 25 Miles Of Electric Range"

  1. Bacardi says:

    Will this outsell the Volt ten to one?

    1. Jay Cole says:

      As a potential point of reference, Toyota sold 12,475 Prius family vehicles this month – 9,790 of them being the traditional hybrid. For the year, 105,558 Prius branded cars have been sold through September, 78,373 of them the traditional hybrid.

      With the “standard” Prius sales actually slumping now year-over-year (and stagnant for longer), we may be seeing Toyota moving the plug-in “Prime” version to the front of the brand’s lineup as the new flag-bearer…a big change over the first gen PHV’s status.

      It will be interesting to see where the demand/sales level ultimately lands for the Prius Prime in the US with this aggressive price structure and solid name recognition behind it. It is definitely a “good news” moment for the plug-in segment in America.

      1. Just_Chris says:

        What was the split of pip to regular Prius back in the days when there was actually some stock around? I know the outlander PHEV is the most popular model in the UK it’d be great if we could get to more than 5k per month of the Prime.

  2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

    Wow. Need to double-check specs of basic version, but _very_ pleasantly surprised at price. This should really shift a big chunk of demand from HEV to PHEV.

    1. Kdawg says:

      How much does Toyota lose on each one?

      1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        I don’t think they’ll lose money on them.

        Hybrids have been a cash cow for Toyota, but with low gas prices Priuses aren’t selling near MSRP anyway, but with the Volt, the Bolt and other plug-ins coming, they have to be price-competitive.

        Just don’t expect much maneuvering room on the low spec Primes.

        1. Kdawg says:

          It would be interesting to know the profit margin (if any) since the pricing is described as “aggressive” and the assumption is Toyota is setting itself up to be in a OK spot once the tax credit expires.

          They take a big loss on the Mirai, but they don’t sell many of those. Are they willing to take smaller losses on the PP in order to get back some market share in the plugin sector? Or is there enough profit on the high-level trim to pay for any loss on the base model?

      2. Counter-Strike Cat says:

        Nothing, you sheep Tesla troll.

        1. Kdawg says:

          What does the PP have to do w/Tesla?

          1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Nothing. “Cat” is just using that as an excuse to do some gratuitous Tesla bashing. In fact, I think he never posts anything that’s not Tesla bashing, does he?

            1. sven says:

              You never post anything that’s not you complaining about Tesla bashing. So I guess it evens out. 😀

              1. georgeS says:

                @Sven
                @PMPU
                boy you guys are definitely worth the price of admission:)

                1. ffbj says:

                  Which isn’t saying much, since the price of admission is zero.

                  1. Phr≡d says:

                    truer words…

                  2. Ziv says:

                    You mean I shouldn’t have been sending in my credit card info all these years?

            2. zzzzzzzzzz says:

              Isn’t that the Tesla fanboy talking point, that we memorized very well by now?
              “Everybody makes compliance plugin cars and loose great amount of money of it. Only Saint Elon is enlightened and knows how make real EVs, praise him forever and trash every other EV car maker except Tesla no matter what. (But don’t look into TSLA balance sheet)”. Pu-pu, it is your TSLA pumping story, you should know it very well.

              1. Nix says:

                zzzzzzzzzzzzz

                I don’t think you’ve read Pushy’s posts very closely, because I’ve seen plenty of posts by him/her/it talking about the positives of plenty of other EV’s and PHEV’s.

                You are likely confused because you troll so heavily against Tesla, that you barely notice other posts by him/her/it.

                But this is what happens when a board is left to be Lord of the Flies for trolls. Anybody who has been around for years have seen this same thing repeat over and over on many boards.

                The comments on green car sites start out almost universally positive and full of very insightful information. Often with more insights than the original source, and are a must-read.

                Then trolls are allowed to post unchecked. Often the same trolls who were on previous websites. Often with either H2 or SA backgrounds. Sick of the unchecked trolling ruining the site and spreading FUD, some enthusiasts retaliate.

                The trolls then try to pretend that there is some sort of false equivalency between trolling and debunking trolls. Sadly, you are trying to promote that false equivalency, where no such false equivalency exists. Well, we aren’t falling for that bullcr@p from you or your fellow carpet bombing anti-Tesla and/or pro-fuel cell trolls.

                Yea, we all realize that all the pro-fuel cell trolls got all bVtthurt when Elon Musk bashed H2 fuel cells as a totally dumb scam, and all the H2 trolls don’t like him. We get it. We’re sick of it.

                Yea, we know all the Tesla short sellers want to make money on TSLA share volatility, so they want to inject BS at any opportunity. We get it. We’re sick of it.

                1. Phr≡d says:

                  Nix, you post some well researched and much appreciated commentary here, Thank You!

                  I am at a loss to understand how you see your described group of ‘trolls’ as so completely different from the group you seem to be ‘understanding’. -I- don’t see that group as better in any way, and you have been here for the Entire history of the person that you are ‘defending’ as it were, in this single context. The reactions that that person receives are based Entirely upon his Complete History, not his good days, or weeks. He is particularly associated with name-calling, elementary-school acronyms posted ad nauseum, and outright stalking of some posters here. You -seem- to be saying that those Years of adolescent activity are justified, so I wanted to confirm that my ASSumption of your conclusion was correct.

                  His hoard of newer followers, and their (what I refer to as) FUDiot-speak, which is to say -Anyone- (i.e., Not the list of people that You find offensive, but Anyone).

                  Anyone that posts less-than-favorable comments about a certain brand will be Instantly met with “Troll” FUD” “Short-seller” Serial-basher” or one of the above-mentioned’s latest 3rd-grader acronyms responses, with No Info at All, just diminutive verbiage encouraging the receiver to Leave forever if they wish to post uncomplimentary verbiage.

                  As this is the Second post of yours, of this nature, extolling what has happened to Other sites, when the ‘Concerned’ were allowed to post unhindered (as though it is some onslaught – we were both here when Spiegel was raked) I thought you might confirm that the list of attack-at-all-costs posters Were those that you support, and that their blatant stalking of several members in some topics is completely acceptable to you — that you Do Not see the reverse as every bit as bad as the posters that you dislike.

                  You have been somewhat vocal in your disdain of certain marques and/or certain abilities, and I have never felt the need to point out that you must be a short-shill-FUD-posing-Troll, even though I deeply disagreed with your point of view.

                  I appreciate -as you almost Certainly disagree with Many of my comments- that you never saw fit to descend to that level either.

                  I am clearly missing what Mr. Acronym brings To this party that sven (or fill in your disliked poster of the day) apparently Takes Away, in that the Former is your preference, and that those attacks improve things (as opposed to simply Banning sven, because you just don’t like him and the viewpoint, with the Constant links, information, and discussion that he brings — sadly Lacking in the alternative and thought-provoking followers and Supporter).

                  I hope you see this, as I look forward to your reply.

        2. floydboy says:

          Strike that counter…..cat!

      3. Nix says:

        Kdawg — I actually thought you were above fact-less accusation trolling.

        Disappointed.

        1. Kdawg says:

          It was a snarky attempt at humor. Seems like any time pricing is announced for plugins, that’s the first assumption. We’ve all seen the headlines.

          1. Just_Chris says:

            Sorry, just read this comment, please ignore my reply.

          2. Nix says:

            Got it.

            Yea, we went through all of this with the original Toyota Prius back in the early 2000’s.

            People bashed the original Prius for being a money loser. Then by Dec. 2001 Toyota reported being at break-even:

            http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/19/autos/hy-prius19

            Then somewhere between 2001 and 2009 they went from break-even to over $3,000 dollars of profit per car:

            http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/report-honda-toyota-earning-profits-on-hybrids.html

            Profits on the Prius now total into the double digit Billions. a decade and a half after everybody first started whining and complaining about Toyota losing money on the original Prius.

            I think Toyota will manage just fine figuring out how to make money on these over the long term, even if they might lose a few bucks over the next year or two, just like the original Prius.

      4. Just_Chris says:

        Why do you assume they loose money on each one? They make money on the standard Prius, the only difference is a small lithium battery. I think being critical of Toyota is often justified but in this instance they have gone for a modest performance and a low price. They plan to sell a million a year globally that doesn’t sound like a car they can afford to loose money on.

      5. Bacardi says:

        The base model will be the model they’ll sell the most of, why do you think they’ll sell it at a loss?

  3. bro1999 says:

    Still FUGLY as hell.

    The Prius/Toyota lemmings will suck it up though.

    1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      Yeah, just think how well an appealing PHEV with its specs would sell at that price.

    2. Carguy says:

      I agree bro1999 they will sell a ton of them, mostly to current Prius owners who have never test driven another car. My Prius loyal friend test drove my C-max energi and the he got rid of the Prius as soon as he could and is driving a C-maz energi now. It is just a better car, drives nicer, more power, more head room but most Prius owners will never test drive another car. The new Prius has terrible visability. They really cheapen it up removing glass and putting the display in the center. It is a compact version of a 2013 C-max energi and gets better milage and a little longer range but doesn’t drive as nice and is hard to see out of. So Toyota is only 4 years behind now. A 2017 Volt is so much a better vehicle in every way. Too bad Prius owners will never test drive one.

      1. sven says:

        FYI, be aware that in cold climates Ford recommends regularly running ICE engines at full operating temperature in their hybrids and plugins to avoid a milky sludge building up in their gasoline engines. Running the ICE at full operating temperature burns off moisture (condensation) that naturally occurs in a gasoline ICE. The moisture problem is exacerbated by cold temperatures.

        You can clearly see the milky sludge in the video in the link below. It’s pretty bad. It looks like someone put white hand soap into her crankcase. OK course, her dealer was of no help, and Ford corporate completely ignored her pleas for help until right after the TV investigative news team called Ford headquarters. LOL!

        http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/lisa-sweeney-ford-fusion-hybrid-sludge-1.3779293

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          sven said:

          “…in cold climates Ford recommends regularly running ICE engines at full operating temperature in their hybrids and plugins to avoid a milky sludge building up in their gasoline engines.”

          What means “regularly”? How often, and now long each time?

          1. mr. M says:

            As long as you do it regularly (like told by ford) you should be fine. I will do it each year at december the 4. 😀

        2. Djoni says:

          Thank Sven for pointing out that this is just a mere compliance car not design to be use in a meaningful manner, and maybe suggesting that half way solution isn’t no solution.

          1. georgeS says:

            @Djoni
            “and maybe suggesting that half way solution isn’t no solution”

            I think you meant:
            “and maybe suggesting that half way solution isn’t ANY solution”

        3. ffbj says:

          Up here in the tundra we us HEET. Not sure if that would help but it’s the go to product for removing water in the gas line.

        4. Nix says:

          Other oil based fluids run into this same problem with condensation. For example, large diesel tanks, differential and transfer case fluids in off-road vehicles that never get up to temp, hydraulics in construction equipment, marine engines, etc.

          The answer is putting a coalescing filter/separator in the system. It works like a charm.

          Adding in a filter housing and coalescing filter like this diesel fuel filter would separate out that water:

          http://www.m1motoring.com/products/AC-Delco-TP3012-Duramax-Diesel-6.6-Fuel-Filter.html

          Another option is a Polymeric filter like what is used for hydraulic oil, something like this:

          http://www.velcon.com/datasheet/1720-R1Rev06_94.pdf

          An independent garage could probably retrofit something into her car for a few hundred dollars. I’m sure Ford won’t do a damn thing for her.

          (continued due to link limit)

          1. Nix says:

            Finally, I wonder if Ford is just trying to ignore a coolant leak in her engine, and trying to blame the customer. That milky goo can also be coolant in the engine (typically from a blown head gasket, but bad intake gaskets can also leak coolant in some engines):

            https://www.2carpros.com/articles/coolantantifreeze-in-the-engine-oil

            So unless/until there there is a pattern of repeated cases, I’m not so ready to blame the customer quite yet.

            I would be very interested in what an oil analysis on this car from somewhere like blackstone labs might show. If the oil is high in potassium and sodium, it has a coolant leak, not just a condensation problem.

      2. mx says:

        Ford lost me with no battery upgrade to the CMAX or Energi, while everyone else has an upgrade.

        1. mx says:

          And no Automatic Cruise Control, and now collision prevention.

          1. fotomoto says:

            Ford had ACC available back in 2013 on the Fusion Energi.

            “The Fusion Hybrid that Ford sent us came similarly equipped, including adaptive cruise control, automatic parallel parking, and lane departure prevention.”

            https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2013-ford-fusion-energi/review/

        2. Djoni says:

          Nissan Leaf don’t have any upgrade battery solution yet, and might never have one.

  4. pantarei says:

    Everybody is always complaining about the small pure electric range, but having a smaller battery means you can fill it up with just a standard plug even if you come home late. No EVSEs required. So what EV enthusiasts consider a drawback, might just be appealing to a portion of the general public.

    1. DL says:

      That’s like saying a 5 gallon fuel tank is better than a 15 gallon one because it takes less time to fill it up. It takes the same time to put 5 gallons in either way, but the larger tank gives you more flexibility.

      Same with batteries. Charging all night at 120V is the same amount of energy no matter what size the battery.

      1. pantarei says:

        Not completely charging your extended range electric vehicle will leave you of that discontented feeling of not taking fully advantage though. At least that’s how it works with me.

        1. Kdawg says:

          I’ve charged my 40-mile range Volt for 4 years on 110V. I need 40 miles of range and an overnight charge works out perfect.

          25 miles isn’t enough IMO. Your engine is going to come on a lot still. And when winter hits, how much is that going to drop?

          1. sven says:

            “And when winter hits, how much is that going to drop?”

            I’m really curious about how much Toyota’s new gas-injection heat pump reduces range loss in cold temperatures as opposed to EVs that use a power sucking heating element for cabin heat.

            1. fotomoto says:

              While plugged in, it will also have the ability to warm the battery to avoid EV range loss.

              1. ClarksonCote says:

                The Volt has always had this capability too, in addition to cooling the battery in hot weather.

          2. TM says:

            Winter for me in Phoenix is a foreign word. But yes, Minnesotans will lose feeling in their batteries.

    2. Acevolt says:

      That works on all plug ins regardless of battery size. I plug my Tesla into 110 outlets all the time and it charges at 3 miles an hour, which is all I need if my daily drive is 30 miles. A bigger battery would still be better.

    3. carcus says:

      Up to this point you pretty much had have a home with a garage to consider buying a plug in car.

      Now all you have to have is an extension cord that makes it from your apartment window to the curb.

      It’s possible the relatively low purchase price of the Prius Prime Plus could expand the “boundaries” of EV ownership substantially.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Nope.

        No matter how you try to spin it, having only a tiny electric range is a huge disadvantage. When people buy either a BEV or a PHEV, they do so with the intent of replacing as many gas-powered miles with electric-powered miles as possible. For the average driver, having an electric range of less than ~50-60 miles frustrates that purpose.

        1. Carcus says:

          Charge once when you get home from work, and once when you go to bed.

          25 x 2 x 365 = up to 18,250 Electric miles/ year.

          (YEMMV depending on home level of charging/ personal schedule)

          1. Loboc says:

            Really? People drive 365days/year? Most people I know drive to work ~220days/year.

            Heck, on weekends I sometimes don’t drive at all. If I’m out of town, I don’t drive my own car.

            1. Trollnonymous says:

              Yes people with kids in sports, other activities or more than one job drive practically every day.

              Or do you not believe people have kids/family or more than one job?

            2. Nix says:

              Loboc,

              When I do my rough estimates on charging at work and home, I use 600 charge cycles times PHEV range. That comes out to be a potential of 15,000 miles of EV range with charging at home and work on a reasonable number of driving days.

              Since with PHEV’s, YMWV, this obviously won’t suit 100% of drivers 100% of the time. But there certainly are more than enough drivers this will suit for this car to

              (math justification: Out of 365 days, use 350 driving days + out of 261 work days, use 250 driving days == roughly 600 charging cycles/year. Calculate max miles in EV mode as 600 cycles times range of 25 miles per cycle == potential of up to 15,000 miles in EV mode. I usually round at the point to the nearest 1,000, but the math just happens to already come up with a round answer. This assumes equal amounts of range adjustments from the EPA test cycle for drivers beating the EPA test cycle using light hypermiling, and for bad weather at times in the year (which is technically already somewhat simulated into EPA test results.)

      2. Michael Will says:

        Destination charging is the answer. Charge at work or while shopping. I charge at home so don’t need it but I see lots of chargepoint chargers all over the place so if I had to I could.

    4. John says:

      Even charging at 110 requires a L1 EVSE….

  5. tftf says:

    Let’s remember that average commuter trips are shorter in most of Europe and Asia (compared to NA).

    This car should sell very well globally provided the same pricing structure is applied in other car markets compared to the “normal” hybrid Prius line.

  6. John Hollenberg says:

    I thought Toyota was all in for Fool Cell technology. Could it be they woke up to the reality of BEV/PHEV dominance?

  7. David Murray says:

    This is great news, especially the extra 3 miles of range. Once the tax credits are gone, the Prius Prime would be one of the most affordable plug-ins. If it could qualify for the whole $7,500 then it would be an amazing deal!

    1. pjwood1 says:

      It starts more than $5k cheaper than Volt. Regardless, Toyota volume is uniquely Toyota-loyal. It’s mind boggling, that PHEV Prius sells with the old, and the new, Volt around.

      1. Kdawg says:

        Problems with the PP are; the cargo area is smaller than a regular Prius, only 2 seats in the back, no Apple carplay, you have to upgrade to the $33k trim to get the larger screen, the acceleration/performance is still slow, especially compared to other torquey plugins, the looks are very … um .. unusual, and the range is still not enough. Look at what’s on the horizon or even out now. Then think about only getting 25 miles of EV range. It’s underwhelming.

        All that said, yes, Toyota lemmings will buy this sub-Prime plugin.

        1. Just_Chris says:

          Most of those things are true (and them some) when you look at the current HEV Prius.

          I think the market must be a lot more cost sensitive than people think. I also think that there are to many if’s with the tax incentive, i.e. you can have $7,500 IF you earn enough or IF you want a lease. I don’t know for sure how big those IF’s are but I still struggle to explain when looking at the price of EV’s in the states why more people don’t buy a PHEV or EV rather than a standard hybrid.

          I wish I could understand why but there are a lot of people (the overwhelming majority) making counter intuitive decisions when buying a car.

  8. Acevolt says:

    Whats impressive is that after tax credits, the Prius Prime Plus is actually cheaper than the Prius Two. In addition, for California, you would get $1500 and car pool stickers.

  9. Terawatt says:

    Woo, 25 miles.

    It’s a sad thing this sort of crap gets incentivized. The only hybrid that should be encouraged should at minimum meet two requirements:

    1) at least 50 miles of EPA all-electric range

    2) full power available in all-electric mode

    The Prius of course isn’t even close to meeting either requirement.

    Make a BEV, Toyota. This is how we did it at the beginning of the millennium!

    1. Alan says:

      I was thinking much the same myself, my Outlander PHEV gets 25 miles of range.

      Nothing to see here !

    2. R.S says:

      As if incentives aren’t tailored enough for GM.

      Why not limit incentives to cars that end with “olt” ?

      1. DJ says:

        Or an even better idea is why not disallow posters here who are dolt’s?

        1. R.S says:

          Hmm supressing different opinions, sounds nice…

          1. Dj says:

            No, it’s called putting the trolls where they belong. Under a bright :wave:

            1. R.S says:

              So you think its trolling, if I voice my concerns over matching the limit for incentives to the specifications of the Volt?

              Why not 60 miles AER? Or 80? Why shuld the Prius Prime get 0 incentives, but the 50 mile AER Volt the same as the 230 mile Bolt, or even the 107 mile Leaf?

              The incentives today already greatly benefit the Volt, compared to a pure EV. In your opinion it should also benefit in comparison to any other PHEV? Toyota did a bad job with the PiP, but with the PP they offer a reasonable range plug in for a very reasonable price. We don’t only need more range, we also need affordable prices before incentives. Because we can’t just rely on incentives forever. With better technology ranges will increase, or prices decrease. It can go both ways and reducing MSRP is as good as increasing AER in my opinion.

              Was that enough “trolling” for you?

    3. sven says:

      The Prius Prime does have full power available in all-electric mode. In fact, the 0-60 mph times for the Prius Prime are faster in EV mode then in hydrid mode.

      1. Kdawg says:

        10.6 seconds isn’t anything to write home about.

        1. Kdawg says:

          Just watched the first drive review and they got 15 seconds for 0-60 in EV mode, and 11 seconds in Hybrid mode. Real world numbers not looking good.

          1. sven says:

            Yep. I stand corrected. I’m getting old. My memory is shot.

            1. sven says:

              Apparently, my memory is not shot. What I was remembering was a Car & Driver test drive of a Prius Prime prototype in July, 2016 where it was claimed the Prime was faster to 40 in EV mode than hybrid mode, and had a 10.6 second 0-60 time. C&D said the following:

              “Toyota has teased us with a few more facts and numbers to bolster that impression: It says the Prime accelerates more quickly to 40 mph in its EV mode than it does in normal hybrid mode with the engine running. And it will accelerate to 60 mph, in either its EV or hybrid modes, in about the same time as the standard Prius—a claimed 10.6 seconds.”

              Apparently, the 0-60 in EV mode is now 15 seconds according to some reviews, up from the previously claimed 10.6 seconds.

          2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

            Yes, I just found that out. Disappointing since 15s was the 0-60 in the Energis, and I was expecting better than that.

            Still, at least it’s an improvement on 0-60 in 27 seconds 😉

        2. Nix says:

          0-60 in the time it takes to write home?

          That describes my mother’s 0-60 times since as long as I can remember….

          Yea, the power is on the weak side. So that will limit the market to folks who don’t care as much about stuff like that. And it certainly won’t ever be a Halo car like the Model S. But it will still suit the “egg under the accelerator pedal” crowd fine.

          I will still honk at them when the light turns green though……

    4. Ziv says:

      What works for one person won’t work for another. I like my Volt’s 38 miles of EPA AER and would not like to have less. But if a Prius can do a real world 25 miles, there are a lot of people who will not use much gas at all. And 55 mpg if they do use the gas is not bad.
      I think the Prius is ugly and boring, but any car with a plug is a good thing. But every additional mile of AER makes that good thing better.
      Think of the Prius Prime as a starter drug. Get them Toyota sheep hooked on electric cars and eventually they will be demanding more cowbell! Er.. More AER!!!
      “Take my Prius in trade, Mr. Tesla dealer!”

      1. Kdawg says:

        The people that bought the PiP were asking for more AER and a sportier drive.

        Toyota *did* give them more.. but still not enough.

    5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/pl08021/fig4_5.cfm

      It’s from 2008, but … 1 to 10 miles accounted for over half of all trips (one way) and 28.3% of household miles.

      Then consider that the percentage of trips diminish with length, and that even on longer trips it’ll still be taking off a chunk of miles, and that it will be an efficient car both in EV and hybrid modes, and that it will be able to blend well on longer trips.

      Yes, we’d all love more range, but at $28k the Prime is a big deal.

    6. Yogurt says:

      +1

      Yes 25 miles is a pretty weak attempt for a brand new plugin but they will probably sell to people who will only buy Toyotas so it is a small plus…
      And they will also be pushing there green washing FCEV…

    7. Justin Benson says:

      “my completely subjective mileage range is the right one!”

      All that matters is does it cover the average daily commute? If it is then it’s a fine range.

      1. Nix says:

        Actually, all that matters is whether it suits enough individual’s daily commutes that they can sell enough to be successful.

        It doesn’t actually have to suit even the average commute, because people can self-select whether this works for them or not.

        The reality is that even if you look at just the statistical lower third of all commuters (those drivers who commute well below the national average), there are more potential buyers than Toyota could ever keep up with.

        They can do just fine growing sales with their first generation mid-range PHEV while the PHEV market is still growing.

        Buying a PHEV is all about fitting your own actual needs to the right PHEV, no matter what any national averages might be. It is more like buying a bicycle that is the right size, then buying a motorcycle.

        People with shorter commutes can get away with a Ford PHEV. For a bit longer commute, this will work fine (especially if they have access to charging at work). Sure, folks with longer than average commute will need a Volt or i3, or a longer range EV, but that doesn’t mean everybody needs what they need.

        Hope that makes sense?

  10. Alex says:

    This price is awesome! I think it could be a bestseller.

  11. Bill Howland says:

    I disagree with the naysayers. In my area there are Priuses (PRIusi?) everywhere. 25 mile range is much more realistic than the few miles before, it is a nicer car, and thousands cheaper. Especially if you can plug in at your destination.

    The one valid complaint is that soon, they will be hogging all the public chargers in the area – but they are a great ambassador for EV’s since they will sell such huge volumes of them.

    1. Trollnonymous says:

      “The one valid complaint is that soon, they will be hogging all the public chargers in the area”

      They already are!
      Not sure why these PHEV owners seem to think it’s OK to keep their car plugged in on a 3.3KW – 6.6KW chargers for 4 hours or more.
      There’s one joker in front of SMUD that keep their PiP plugged in all day……..JERK!
      And the EVSE is a 6.6KW Clipper Creek! No doubt his charger negotioates a 3.3KW rate but WTF man? Move your sh[t!

      The funny part is they bought the car ~BECAUSE~ it has an ICE so they can go beyond EV.

      IMHO, Public charging should be only for Pure BEV.

      1. SparkEV says:

        I don’t know about public chargers only being for BEV. L2 could be for PHEV, provided that they behave.

        As for PiP, I have yet to see one actually charging in public. Most just park in charging spot, preventing other EV from charging. Few that plug in do not actually charge, but merely make it appear to be charging to park the car. I suspect pretty much the same with Prime.

        1. Brandon says:

          I actually see the future of most public Level 2 to function largely for PHEVs.

          DC fast charging will fulfil most public long range BEV charging, and I believe it will ultimately be the reliable available charge method, whereas now it’s not so much that way.

          In other words, long range BEVs actually don’t need public Level 2 much. Because of their long range it’s
          DC fast charging that is by far the most utilized public infrastructure. Tesla demonstrates this already.

          Long range BEVs will use Level 2 when available to minimize time spent fast charging, but Level 2 will largely be a convenience for PHEV drivers to use, and not something they RELY upon since they don’t need to and it’s often not reliably available.

          1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

            Level 2 at home, at friends’, at hotels for overnight charging and maybe some destination charging for multi-hour stays.

            But on-the-road charging will certainly be DCFC.

      2. Bill Howland says:

        “Move your Chit!”

        Ha, I unplug them when they’re done charging, let the ‘theft alarm’ honk for 60 seconds, and leave a note. I’m not shy about stretching the cord over to my car.

  12. Tony says:

    The Prime may get the Green CA HOV sticker, but come Jan 2019, I bet they change the rules and I bet the Prime won’t qualify.

    1. sven says:

      But you have to admit that so far Toyota has had great timing with regards to California’s HOV stickers. Its hybrid Prius got the lion’s share of the old yellow stickers when they were available. When the green stickers for PHEVs came out, Toyota unveiled the Prius Plug-in to take advantage of them. Just when the green stickers ran out, Toyota stopped making the Prius Plug-in. Just weeks ago, California announced that green stickers were available again. The Prius Prime will soon go on sale to take full advantage of those newly available green stickers.

      Well played Toyota. Well played.

      1. underbridgetroll says:

        +1

        Toyota and GM are the best at the game. Look how GM has a ~17kwh pack but never ever uses it in one full charge depletion session. All that so it can get the full Fed $7500 tax credit.

        1. John says:

          Or maybe they just don’t want the battery to get fried…

        2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

          OK, so GM had 16 kWh to get the full credit.
          And then 16.5 kWh because?
          And then 17.1 kWh because?
          And then 18.3 kWh because?

          (They actually lobbied and got the $7,500 for the 16kWh, rather than the other way round).

        3. ModernMarvelFan says:

          “Look how GM has a ~17kwh pack but never ever uses it in one full charge depletion session. All that so it can get the full Fed $7500 tax credit.”

          Neither is most PHEV company.

          If GM really only games the battery for incentives, then it wouldn’t have any interest to make it bigger than 16kWh. But GM didn’t stop there. Although the progress is slow, GM has been increase the Volt battery since the 16kWh to 18.4kWh today.

          The question is why other automakers like Toyota still held back when the tax incentives are paying for the first 16kWh?

          1. mr. M says:

            Because the world is bigger than the USA. They also want to sell it in Europe an Japan and maybe other countries also…

  13. Another Euro point of view says:

    This would be the perfect car for me except for the somewhat sluggish 0-60 time. I can’t buy the Volt here, I find the VW Passat GTE too expensive and existing BEV just do not have enough range for my type of use and limited patience. I am an EV enthusiast waiting for the 300 miles range 300Kwh fast charging network EUR 25K BEV. So when I will be satisfied everyone will be satisfied with an EV.

    1. mr. M says:

      300 kW charger at 300 mile range would result in more than 3C and is therefore unlikely to be cheap.

      You might get following cars in 2025:
      300 mile / 150 kW charging / 25k € (Econo box)
      500 mile / 300 kW charging / 40k € (Medium sedan)
      150 mile / 300 kW charging / 55k € (sportscar)

  14. Trollnonymous says:

    I can’t get past the looks.

    Sorry.

    1. floydboy says:

      I think because it’s a cousin to the Mirai.?

  15. Doggydogworld says:

    At this price they’ll sell all they can build.

    People who take occasional long trips but have short commutes or chargers at work will use less gas in a Prius Prime than a Volt.

    GM may need to adjust their pricing. Three cheers for competition.

    1. Kdawg says:

      Note, the crossover point is 151 miles. So if your trip is less than 151 miles, you will use less gas in a Volt.

      If you drive 300 miles, you will use 0.788 gallons more fuel in a Volt. Or put another way, if you ride in a Prius for ~4 hours, you save $1.77 in fuel vs. a Volt.

      1. Taser54 says:

        Bad enough to ride in a prius for 1 hr let alone 4.
        No comparison to the quiet comfort of the volt

      2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        You forgot about the cost of the electricity.

        1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

          Never mind. But there is the cost of electricity and the Prime should be a bit more efficient on the electricity as well.

          While the 15s 0-60 has burst the bubble, I do still look forward to finding out how much difference the heat pump makes to the cold weather hit.

          1. Kdawg says:

            Doggy’s post was about gas used, so that’s what I calculated.

            Heat pumps don’t work too well in Michigan winters, but may help those in milder climates who use their heaters. I typically don’t use my heater unless I need to defrost the windows.

            1. sven says:

              Toyota’s gas-injection heat pump works in colder temperatures than a conventional heat pump. It may work on balmier Michigan winter days. 😉

              Per Toyota’s press release:

              “The heat pump can function without the engine running in weather down to 14 degrees F, where a conventional heat pump system could only function with the temperature above 32 F.”

              1. Kdawg says:

                I only run my heater below 14 though, because the ICE is already running. Min temp setting is 15 degrees. So the heat pump won’t help me.

  16. Bacardi says:

    Thanks for the numbers and info…Another interesting development is that “Toyota Sense” will be standard for all MY18 models and who knows, maybe it’s already standard for the MY17 Prime…Toyota Sense includes all active safety features and even ACC…More info here: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/toyota-safety-sense-will-become-standard/

    Will be interesting to see how GM responds, while available on the Volt, you need the top trim Premier, two safety packages and add ACC making it nearly a $6K premium over the base LT…The Bolt EV doesn’t even offer ACC for some reason…

    1. sven says:

      Good points.

    2. Yogurt says:

      Yes all big auto companies agreed to make a set of electronic safety features standard in 2020 I beleive but Toyota is uping them and making them available in 2018…

      I think the Prime will take more slaes from the Ford Energies than the Volt…

      1. Bacardi says:

        It was 2022 to making it STANDARD, but Toyota is doing this early which is a good thing…With Honda Civic, you can add safety/ACC for roughly $1200 to any trim…Reading a few articles makes it sound like the MY17 Prime’s lowest trim can have Toyota Sense, can’t yet find info if that’s an option or standard…

    3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      The review I read said $31k so must have been Premium plus options and that had adaptive cruise. I don’t expect the basic to have it.

  17. HVACman says:

    Base 2017 Volt $33,200 – $7500 tax credit = $25,720

    Base Prime $27,950 – $4,500 tax credit = $23,450.

    For just $2,270 premium, you can drive 53 all-electric miles w/ more HP, luxury, comfort. and 4.5 passengers instead of 4:) The Volt still looks like a better deal to me.

    It will be interesting to read the 1st-drive reviews from the major auto journalists – especially those that have driven the Gen 2 Volt and other PHEV’s too.

    1. Jay Cole says:

      Actually, as the media blackout/embargo just lifted this morning, we just finished compiling a library of US-based first drive videos reviews – you can check it out here if you are so inclined

      Toyota Prius Prime First U.S. Drive Reviews Are In – Videos

      http://insideevs.com/toyota-prius-prime-first-u-s-drive-reviews-are-in-videos/

      1. John says:

        For the record…I really, really, really dislike the media embargo tactics. It gives way too much control to the entities being reported on, and takes it away from those doing the reporting.

        Ugh.

        1. Nix says:

          It is actually done for the benefit of the magazines themselves.

          With the embargo system, the magazine gets to spend more time to review and write about the vehicle, and everybody gets a level playing field on releasing their reviews.

          The alternative is that the car companies simply don’t allow early access to the magazines, and they all have to wait until the day when the car is released. They they would have to fight over who drives them first, and rush a story out just to say they were first.

          Early access with embargo’s is definitely the better system.

          1. John says:

            In actuality, it’s generally the opposite.

            The embargo gives whoever places the embargo complete control, including who the media can and can’t interview.

            Simply exclude those who would give an unfavorable interview and you skew the information available to the media. At this point it doesn’t matter who’s had how long to prepare, the information being provided is only half the story.

            After the initial press blitz and the media has time to conduct an actual investigative interview process, which may or may not be as favorable…it doesn’t matter. Few individuals will read an article days or weeks later about a topic they’ve already read about.

            This article does a better job than I do about explaining the process, but it paints a pretty clear picture.

            http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-fda-manipulates-the-media/

    2. Trollnonymous says:

      Interesting price point.
      But what are the internal cabin volumes?
      The Volt is compact the Prius is??? Well it looks bigger anyway……lol

      1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        The Gen 3 Prius compared to the Gen 1 Volt was clearly larger. I considered the Gen 3 Prius to be between compact and mid-size.

        Don’t have Gen 4/Gen 2 experience to know how it’s changed.

        1. Kdawg says:

          Looks like there’s more legroom in the back of a Gen2 Volt than the PP. Person in the video said about 1″ of legroom in the Volt and 1/2″ in the PP.

          The headroom, when sitting upright also appeared taller in the Volt, due to the glass being over the rear passenger’s heads.

          1. TM says:

            Hard to say how far back the front seats are positioned. The Gen III prius had a ton of room in the back seats. Almost luxurious.

            1. Kdawg says:

              The back seat of the Prime isn’t the same as the reg Prius. Bucket seats and the battery takes up room.

          2. Trollnonymous says:

            Those pictures look suspicious as hell.
            The front seat in the Volt looks like it’s leaned more forward than the Prius.
            Or more like they leaned the Prius seat back to make it look like there’s less room in the back.

            That reviewer must be a Volt fan.

            1. Kdawg says:

              I don’t think so. When he was reviewing the Volt, he was saying how the back seats weren’t as comfortable as the standard Prius. For the full reviews, here’s the 2 links.

              Prius Prime

              Gen2 Volt

            2. AlphaEdge says:

              He clearly states in the Prius review, that he had the front seat all the way back, and there is still leg room. He said it, like it was a positive. Don’t know about the Volt review, as I did not watch that.

          3. sven says:

            That Prius Prime front seat is reclined, while the Volt front seat is upright, which makes a difference.

            I don’t know if you can compare back seat leg room without taking into account front seat leg room. The Prime front seat track may extend further back to give more legroom to the front passenger (front seat further away from the firewall under the dash), then the Volt. In some cars I can completely extend my legs when I’m in the front seat with the seat fully back, while in others the best I can do is have a slight bend in my legs with the front seat fully back. Back seat legroom when comparing two cars should really be measured when the front seats are an equal distance from the firewall and the car with the shorter front seat track is at its maximum length.

            From these pics, I don’t know if I agree with you on the rear seat headroom being taller in the Volt. I get plenty of complaints about people in the back seat bonking their heads on the lower headliner where it transitions from the back window to the headliner.

            1. Kdawg says:

              I just grabbed screen caps and paraphrased what the reviewer said. For the full context watch the vids I linked above. I think the reviewer actually does a thorough job, and would have all front seats set for himself.

            2. Trollnonymous says:

              Headroom, since you brought it up, from the pics it looks like the Prime has more headroom than the Volt.
              The dudes head looks like it practically touching the roof in the Volt AND he had shorter hair back then!

              1. Kdawg says:

                Watch the videos where he talks about head room. His head hits in the Prius Prime but not in the Volt.

    3. sven says:

      It’s actually a $3,095 price premium. The Prius Prime price includes an $850 destination charge, while the Volt price doesn’t include its $825 destination charge. Including the destination charge brings the Volt’s MSRP to $34,045 ($33,220 + $825).

      Base 2017 Volt $34,045 – $7,500 tax credit = $26,545

      Base Prime $27,950 – $4,500 tax credit = $23,450.

      1. Bacardi says:

        Great price breakdown, only thing is it’s MSRP…We have no idea what factory incentives will be for the Prime and if they’ll offer the car for the Costco program…Incentives can vary for CARB states and non-states and vary from purchasing vs leasing…Not everyone will even qualify for the full tax credit, therefore it could make more sense to lease now and purchase at turn in…GM also for years has offered the “$1000 off private offer” I think the third weekend of every month…GM also offers the Volt through the Costco program under invoice…Overall point being it’s very easy to get deals on Volt (in the United States) and they’re especially attractive in carb states where $0 down, and below $200/mo lease deals are repeatedly reported…

      2. Nix says:

        Where this has a benefit over the Volt is for people who don’t qualify for the full federal tax incentive, but don’t want to lease.

        For somebody that only qualifies for the $4500 incentive due to their taxable income, the price premium for the Volt could be as high as $6,000 dollars.

        Like most everything with EV’s and PHEV’s, everybody will have to calculate that for themselves based upon their own actual tax situation. As always, YMWV.

  18. TM says:

    Hey – with a 10 mile range, our PiP does 33% of its driving in EV mode. double that range and I’m guessing the percentage will go up to 50 or 60%. It’s our 600 mile highway trips that really ruin that percentage number.

    The cargo space is really important to me.
    I’d like to see how much is left after they threw in all of those batteries.

    1. Kdawg says:

      Loses 7 cuft of space; now at 19.8 cuft.

      1. ClarksonCote says:

        And the Gen 2 Volt now seats five, whereas the PiP only seats four. Can’t wait to see how the Prius fans suddenly are okay with four seats, where they felt that unacceptable in the Gen 1 Volt.

  19. DJ says:

    Hate the look of it but I’m sure they have a winner.

    Now just bring on a PIP-V model and hopefully a bit more range! 🙂

    1. Kdawg says:

      They should put a plug on the Rav-4 Hybrid, and give it 50 miles of AER.

      Also make a 200+ mile BEV.

      1. Nix says:

        +1

        Yes, all of the car makers need to expand their line of PHEV’s and BEV’s into more lines of cars. GM is a prime example. Developing a Voltec Malibu and CUV are no-brainers now that they have finished the Volt GEN II update and Bolt releases (production has already started).

      2. Trollnonymous says:

        +1

        Toy should’ve just said the hell with it an put the Tesla 60Ah pack into a Rav4 EV like they did with the 40Ah pack for the Rav4 EV from Tesla.

        Missed opportunity there.

      3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        *Round of applause*

  20. Tom says:

    To quote Joe Biden…this is a big f’ing deal.

    1. Mister G says:

      Not really, this is half-assed deal, a 200 mile all electric for $35k is a big deal.

  21. Nix says:

    Lots of EV fans for the last decade have been saying that Toyota won’t dive head-first into the PHEV market while they can still sell a ton of their regular non-plugin Prius line of cars. That Toyota will only dip their toe into the plug-in market when forced to.

    Lots of folks here have said that Toyota would delay as long as they could to maximize their investment into their market sector leading HEV drivetrain, and only enter the PHEV market full steam when they think they have maximized that investment.

    Now it looks like they are seeing that day has finally come, and they are finally making a serious entry into the PHEV market.

    Some folks might hold that against Toyota. That they waited too long to finally start selling a compelling PHEV. But I don’t see the point of that.

    The facts are that Toyota is making a very price competitive PHEV that is capable of 9,000+ pure EV miles a year just charging at home, and 15,000+ miles if also charged at work. That is an awesome improvement over burning gas!

    The pricing makes it possible to get them into the hands of more buyers than if they put in more battery and priced it higher.

    So while it might not suit the needs of every EV purist who might need more range for their personal needs, this car will certainly suit the needs of a whole lot of mass market buyers, and replace a lot of gas miles with EV miles.

    And that’s the whole point of why we are EV enthusiasts, right?

    1. sven says:

      And truth be told, the total market market for 80-mile AER BEVs was limited. If Toyota came out with a 80-mile BEV a couple of years ago, it would have mostly stolen sales from other 80-mile BEV models like the LEAF, and lowered their tepid monthly sales during the last few years. Now that battery costs have dropped significantly, there’s room for more cooks in the kitchen. With greater range and lower prices per kilowatt hour, the total market for BEVs is now much larger, with the new longer range BEVs and PHEVs appealing to people who aren’t EV enthusiasts (yet).

    2. Yogurt says:

      It is good that Toyota is finaly serious about selling a plugin and even though it has limited EV range it should sell lots and lots to the people who are Toyota fans…
      I dont care for Toyotas FCEV program which is a green washing scam that only delays the uptake of real EVs while they sell their bread and butter ICEs…

    3. ffbj says:

      True.

  22. LEAF_n_PiP says:

    Just a shame it only had 4 seats…

    1. Koenigsegg says:

      I know. 2 extra useless seats that are going to just collect dust. When will they make a proper 2 door 2 seat electric coupe.

      Enough with these worthless 4-5 seaters!

  23. georgeS says:

    My wife loves her 2008 Prius….but it’s over 100,000 miles and I was thinking it was time for a new one.

    So I tried to talk her into getting a new one.

    …but no dice. She said no. She wanted to keep her old one.

    Ha! I showed her. I bot myself a Tesla Model S:)

    1. TM says:

      100,000 miles is nothing. Talk to me when you have 200,000 miles on it.

      1. georgeS says:

        @TM
        “100,000 miles is nothing. Talk to me when you have 200,000 miles on it.”

        agreed. It’ll probably go 300,000! Zero issues so far. That’s why people like their Toyotas!

        1. SparkEV says:

          My Prius battery died at 149,500 miles, 500 miles shy of warranty miles. Unfortunately, it was 12 years, so I could not get warranty coverage. Toyota know their warranty!

    2. TM says:

      Nice on the model S.
      She may want one too.

  24. Bob Nan says:

    Great news, $28,000 is a very low price for a plugin with 25 mile range and 54 MPG.
    But why would they increase the price of Prius hybrid by $500 on all trims and keep the price of plugin so low.

    Probably Toyota plans to sell more Prius Prime than Volt and Bolt combined. But they sold 4 million units of Prius Liftback worldwide and another 2 million Prius V & Prius C. Are they planning to get rid of Prius Hybrid. That is not fair given the fact that a person who cannot afford to pay $28,000 for Prius Prime may still go for the Hybrid version.

    The latest version of Prius Hybrid is a big seller in Japan and many other countries. Even before its launch in USA, Toyota said that they may not sell that m
    any units. That’s surprising.

    Now this will force Hyundai to price their Ioniq models accordingly which is very good for the EV/Plugin segment. And if Ioniq EV is priced lower, this will fo
    rce the price of Focus-EV, eGolf and Soul-EV to go lower.

    1. Bacardi says:

      The Prime qualifies for a $4500 federal tax credit effectively making the MSRP for the Prime $23,450 or cheaper than the hybrid assuming you qualify…By no means is the Prime a good looking car but man the Prius Hybrid is ugly…Unless you need that fifth seat and the extra cargo room, I can’t imagine why you’d want to pay more for the hybrid version even if you plan on NEVER plugging in…As a bonus, you also get a HOV sticker in Cali, where most of these will be sold…

      1. Bob Nan says:

        Yes with a cheaper price almost everyone will go for the Prius Prime because of its 25 mile electric range.
        So my question is why did Toyota price the Prime to be lower than the Hybrid. Are they planning to eliminate Hybrid in the near future.

        1. BenG says:

          I’d say they priced it more or less without regard to the federal tax credit. Which means they get a big boost from the tax credit while it’s in effect. If they sell these they way they seem to intend to, they will go high volume and trigger phaseout of the tax credit within a year or so.

  25. Koenigsegg says:

    NNNNNNNNNOPE

  26. Mister G says:

    Not interested in half-ass prius. Where’s toyota’s all electric 200 mile vehicle for $35k?

  27. Goluscombe says:

    It’s too bad the new Prius appears so hideous. It looks like a pubescent’s idea of a car. I’d like to buy a Prius but I’m not into Nike swoops and boomerang styling. I’ll wait for the $35K Tesla

  28. Raymond J Ramirez says:

    Ford has nothing to worry. The Energi models can still beat that Toyota in new sales. Only Toyota fans will buy that Prius Prime.

  29. Bloggin says:

    It’s just so ugly. This one makes the previous gen Prius look really nice.

  30. BenG says:

    I am blown away by the efficiency of this car. 54 mpg combined for a car this size is fantastic, as is 124 mpge while in electric mode. An incredible engineering achievement.

    It’s not perfect: I dislike the front end design. The lack of a 5th seat is weak when the regular Prius has it. The loss of trunk space is lame, too. They should have designed this generation to accept the plug-in battery in the floor.

    But still it’s an impressive car and I hope they sell a ton of them.

  31. John says:

    Would be a great car if it was a BEV with 200+ miles of range.