Toyota Mirai To Be Sold At These 8 California Dealerships Starting This Fall


Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Toyota announced details on Mirai rollout in California.

Order requests for the hydrogen fuel cell cars will be accepted by visiting the Toyota website this summer.

Through 2017, Toyota intends to sell just 3,000 Mirai in the US, from which just a few hundred will be sold this first year as global production will be tiny (limited to 3,000 a year by 2018).

Eight California Toyota dealers were selected to sell Mirai from October 2015based on advanced technology vehicle sales experience and proximity to hydrogen infrastructure“.

“But why wait until October? Beginning this summer, California customers can request a Mirai, by visiting Production of the Mirai is limited and vehicles will be placed with select, eligible customers. Therefore, drivers are encouraged to make their requests early to save a potential parking spot in transportation history. Customers can visit today to sign up for more information and notification of exact order request launch timing in the coming months. All Mirais will be sold and delivered through the authorized Mirai dealer of the customer’s choice.”

Northern California:

  • San Francisco Toyota
  • Roseville Toyota
  • Stevens Creek Toyota
  • Toyota of Sunnyvale.

Southern California:

  • Longo Toyota
  • Toyota Santa Monica
  • Toyota of Orange
  • Tustin Toyota

Category: Toyota

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93 responses to "Toyota Mirai To Be Sold At These 8 California Dealerships Starting This Fall"
  1. Speculawyer says:

    Is it actually being “sold” anywhere? Or just leased?

    1. sven says:

      Yes, you can buy instead of leasing. So at least some of the Mirais won’t be crushed after three years like all the Mini E and Honda Fit EVs.

      1. Mike says:

        I’m curious as to whether or not the people who buy the car need to pay for their own hydrogen. I know Toyota was going to offer free hydrogen for the first three years for leased cars, so I assume it would be the same deal for buyers.

        1. sven says:

          Yes, buyers also get the same deal, three years free hydrogen.

        2. Here’s the really curious thing about the Mirai: You can buy it (good). Free fuel for three years (great).

          But most of the fueling stations are prohibited by non-disclosure agreements from telling you how much the hydrogen costs.

          That makes calculating the Total Cost of Ownership over the life of the vehicle very difficult. And if fuel is expensive and hard to find, the resale value will be very low. As in, donate it to a museum low.

          Scientific American reported that the West Sacramento fueling station charges $13.59 per kilogram of hydrogen in December 2014.

          1. sven says:

            “But most of the fueling stations are prohibited by non-disclosure agreements from telling you how much the hydrogen costs.”

            I recently came across an article that gave the prices at a couple of Los Angles area hydrogen filling stations. The links in the article to the different stations give more info. There are 5000 psi pumps and 10,000 psi pumps since not all tanks can fill to 10,000 psi.

            1 kilogram of hydrogen = 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent (.997 kilograms is the exact number without rounding)

            California State University Los Angeles
            5,000 & 10,000 psi for $15.00 per unit. Apparently for a kilogram.

            Shell of Torrance, California
            5,000 psi for $4.99 per kilogram
            10,000 psi for $5.99 per kilogram

            Chevron of Harbor City, California
            -Pumps out of order, price covered over

            Newport Beach Shell Station
            5,000 & 10,000 psi for $15.00 per kilogram

            In Germany, the cost is around $10.65 per kilogram.

            A YouTube video of a Shell hydrogen fuel pump in Germany shows 9.50 Euros for a kilogram at 4:15 into the video, which is $10.65 per kilogram at current exchange rates.



            1. Speculawyer says:

              Isn’t a kilogram of hydrogen approximately equal to a gallon of gasoline? And if so, that does not sound good unless they can slash the price down.

              1. sven says:

                You also have to consider the efficiency of the Mirai fuel cell compared to an ICE engine. On the generous Japanese JC08 test cycle, the Mirai has a range of 400 miles on a tank that holds 5 kilograms, which is 80 miles per kilogram or GGE (gallon of gas equivalent). I don’t know what the rule-of-thumb conversion factor is to convert that number to an EPA rated fuel economy figure.

                1. Mint says:

                  The LEAF gets 141 miles on JCO8, but only 84 with the EPA.

                  I know the key selling point of hydrogen is quick refueling, but it would still be notable if the Mirai fell short of Tesla’s 270 mile range mark with the EPA, which is quite possible.

              2. Lensman says:

                Speculawyer asked:

                “Isn’t a kilogram of hydrogen approximately equal to a gallon of gasoline?”

                Approximately equal in terms of useful energy contained, yes. But FCVs are a lot more efficient than the average American gas guzzler. (FCVs themselves are fairly efficient; it’s making the fuel which is massively inefficient.) I’ve seen it suggested that a better rule of thumb, in terms of how far you can drive a car on the fuel, is this: 1 kg of H2 is approximately equal to 2 gallons of gasoline.

            2. JakeY says:

              The Shell numbers are placeholder numbers. They have been “selling” at various pilot stations at $5/kg since 2008, since they never intended them to make money and the station capacity is so low they don’t really lose much money.

            3. JakeY says:

              The $5/kg Shell numbers are placeholder numbers. They have been “selling” at various pilot stations at $5/kg since 2008, since they never intended them to make money and the station capacity is so low they don’t really lose much money.

              It seems the break even cost is around $15/kg give your numbers.

              1. Lensman says:

                $15/kg seems to be what it’s going for where it’s generate onsite by electrolysis, altho that price may come down slightly if governments continue to pour money into this boondoggle, and stations are built out in greater numbers. Where its source is natural gas reformation, I understand the price is lower, about $8/kg. Of course, using natural gas defeats the intent of not using fossil fuels. But then, the carbon emissions from all the energy wasted in electrolysis generation, compression, and dispensing, makes that in some respects even worse, at least if you believe global warming is a real concern.

                Either way, it’s massively more wasteful of energy, and more expensive, than using either gasoline or electricity to power your car.

                1. Andrew says:

                  Holy crap. At $5.99/kg that’ll take you 60 miles in a Mirai. About $4 will take you the same distance in a Prius.

                  $5.99 will take me more than 140 miles in my Soul EV @ DWP’s $0.15/kWh.

                  I don’t see how Toyota will be able to market these things. Hyundai has a similar vehicle at a similar price with a similar “free” H2 deal but without bizarre styling and they’ve moved 54 of them in the last 1l months. That’s about the number of cars Tesla is moving in one half of one business day now.

          2. See Through says:

            Are the specs of the car out yet? The car looks very spacious, may be Camry size. Even $15 for a kg of Hydrigen to drive 80 miles isn’t too bad. First 3 years are free, and by then price of Hydrogen may come down.
            About 10 stations should come online in 2015.

            1. See Through says:

              Also, this is just a prototype model. Their site says”production model may vary”. Between the butt-ugly $100K+ Model X and Mirai’s production version, the choice is easy.

              Mirai is also available for lease at $499/mo if someone is worried about what happens after 3 years. And $5K rebate in CA. I’m tempted! It will be the longest range ZEV in the market at a good price.

              1. Steven says:

                You really don’t like Tesla, do you?

                What happens, did Elon Musk run over your puppy or something?

                Did he beat you up and take your lunch money?

                Oh, I get it, he stole your girlfriend.

                1. Ash09 says:

                  He probably owns Toyota and/or oil company stock.

              2. philip d says:

                Why in the hell would you compare the high performance Model X that seats 7 adults to a small car that has Prius performance and a lower MPGe than the Tesla? Of course it will cost more. But what is shocking is that it doesn’t cost much more than you would think.

                This would be a more accurate statement.
                “Between the butt-ugly $57K+ Mirai and the Prius production version, the choice is easy.”

                1. See Through says:

                  OK, why don’t you tell me how much the mythical Model X costs?
                  The Mirai costs $42,500 after tax credits and rebates. I can buy 2 to 3 Mirais for the price of one Model X (post-rebates).

                  1. See Through says:

                    Oops! Should be $45,000. Still I can buy 2 to 3 Mirai cars for one Model X with same options.

              3. Jelloslug says:

                Longest range (just as long as you stick to driving within 150 miles of the 7 hydrogen stations in California).

                1. See Through says:

                  Or you go from one to another within 300 miles. Connector stations are opening up between San Francisco and Los Angeles. Unlike the fake battery swap station, this one will actually be open to public! And unlike the battery swap, it will be free.

              4. ffbj says:

                It’s a disaster looking for a name, or perhaps a meme:A disaster is in your future, we call it the Mirai.

            2. Omar Sultan says:

              We already create hydrogen at industrial scale–I am not sure why folks expect a few thousand FCEVs are going to drive down hydrogen prices–I would expect the only thing that will drive down prices is a cheaper way to create hydrogen at industrial scale than SMR.

              1. BravelilToaster says:

                People are predicting that the price of H2 will go down… basically because they reallyreally want it to be true.

                But the real world doesn’t work like that. Sorry guys.

                1. Lensman says:

                  Hey, in the future it will be easy to generate, compress, move, store, and dispense hydrogen a lot cheaper than the way we do it now. I’m sure it will be easy; those promoting hydrogen fuel keep telling us so. Admittedly they’re a bit fuzzy on the details. 😀

                  Of course, it would be just as “easy” to create a working perpetual motion machine, and for the same reason: Both would violate the laws of physics.

            3. no comment says:

              when you think about it, if that is the current hydrogen pricing, and assuming the price will go down, and given the MPGe of hydrogen, the economics of hydrogen don’t look bad at all. i won’t say that i am an FCEV “believer” yet, but it is amazing that the elon musk fanboys take offense at the mere mention of FCEV. my attitude about it is that FCEV is another EV technology option, and in my view, advancing EV technologies is a good thing in general, regardless of whether or not elon musk makes money on it.

              1. Ash09 says:

                The problem is that hydrogen fuel cells are taking attention away from electric vehicles. Look at Toyota and all the bashing of plug-in vehicles they’ve been doing in the last few months.

                Meanwhile they want to promote a car that drives like a Prius, and you will still need a “gas station” to fill it up. Except this “gas” is more expensive, and new infrastructure needs to be built to support it. And said stations are very expensive to build, around $1-3 million per station on average, much of it taxpayer funded.

                Now try building those stations nationwide, and you can see how that quickly adds up. Or you could just buy an electric vehicle and charge it up at home. Or get a plug-in hybrid, and use the existing gas stations.

                1. no comment says:

                  i get it: you *refuse* to consider FCEV to be electric vehicles. that’s your right.

                  1. BravelilToaster says:

                    Personally, I refuse to see HFCVs as a practical solution to anything at all.

                    You may as well just make cars that run on CNG. The entire solution would be 20x less expensive.

              2. Jelloslug says:

                Smart people don’t like fuel cell cars because they simply don’t make sense. The only advantage they have over a battery electric is the speed of refueling. Every other aspect they are far behind the curve.

            4. philip d says:

              People have reported that the trunk is smaller than a Camry’s. The Mirai also doesn’t have a middle seat in the back. So no, it isn’t as roomy as a Camry.

            5. kdawg says:

              “Even $15 for a kg of Hydrigen to drive 80 miles isn’t too bad.”

              For $15, I can drive my Volt 500 miles.

              1. no comment says:

                if you are in charge sustaining mode, 80 miles in a Volt is just over 2 gallons. ask yourself how much 2 gallons of gasoline cost and you have a better comparison.

                of course, operating a Volt in charge depletion mode is much cheaper than operating in charge sustaining mode; and much cheaper than operating an ICE. but then again, if cheapness of operating were the sole consideration, operating a bicycle would be the way to go.

                1. kdawg says:

                  Driving to & from work daily in EV mode, not in CS mode.

                  Cheapness of operation is not the only consideration. I want to sit in a comfy seat w/surroundings and I do not want to have to pedal something. I want to be able to travel at 70mph or I should say, make my commute in a reasonable time. I don’t want to be sweaty when I get to work. It needs to work year round in Michigan.

                  1. no comment says:

                    all reasonable objectives, i would say. and i would add that, in my opinion, the Volt is a lot better designed than the Mirai.

                    that said, the Volt can only get you, say, 40 miles on a single charge, beyond that, you are operating in charge sustaining mode. the Mirai can drive over 300 miles on a single tank of hydrogen, so while the Volt would be vastly more economical in operation over the first 40 miles, for the remaining nearly 300 miles, the comparison would be a bit closer.

      2. Speculawyer says:

        Well, if they discontinue it then you might as well get it crushed because no one is going to build more hydrogen stations. With an EV, you can always charge up at home even if the public charging infrastructure went away.

      3. Steve Strange says:

        “…won’t be crushed after three years like all the Mini E and Honda Fit EVs.”

        Honda has extended the lease option on the Fit EV, so most will likely now be on the road for a total of five years, more if they decide to extend it again. We will likely extend ours — $199/mo. with unlimited miles and including insurance is too good to pass up.

      4. Speculawyer says:

        I’m glad to hear that they are selling them.

        But I suspect very few will be sold. You’d have to be pretty brave to buy one considering they could flop and no additional fueling infrastructure might be built.

        That’s not too big a problem with EVs because you can always charge them up at home and anywhere albeit VERY SLOWLY with a L1 charger. But if you own a fuel cell car and they stop building H2 stations . . . you’re screwed.

        Leasing would definitely be the way to go for now for those interested in a fuel cell car.

      5. gh says:

        Hou du YOY know anyone can buy it … please provide the link if it’s true – otherwise a guess is just a guess. No one on earth would want one of those powerless money pits.

  2. Patrick says:

    Here’s hoping nobody buys/leases one…

    1. Martin T says:

      Free Hydrogen for 3 years – just says what a total crap sell a fuel cell car is.

      Why Toyota didn’t invest the money in an advanced fast charging plug in is beyond all
      common sense.

      Wonder how many suckers will fall for this and get one?
      Lets hope none!

  3. Ryan says:

    Hydrogen filling stations will be one of the great taxpayer screwjobs of our time

    1. Mike says:

      That’s my worry. If private investment would handle the infrastructure issue, I would feel a lot better about hydrogen. Problem is there isn’t really a business case for consumer level hydrogen fueling stations, and there won’t be for the foreseeable future. If Toyota and Hyundai really believe in the tech, they should be investing in their own infrastructure for fueling at least for range extending for longer trips like Tesla is.

    2. Mike777 says:

      CARB is responsible for this. Remove this hydrogen bull funding and these cars disappear. If BP or Exxon want’s to fund this, then Make Them Actually Spend Their Money and Fund It.

    3. Speculawyer says:

      Meh . . . a few tens of millions on H2 stations could be a waste but it would be tiny in comparisons to wastes hundreds of billions like the Iraq war, the long protracted Afghan war, etc.

      1. Mister G says:

        Iraq invasion has cost $1 Trillion and counting.

  4. Evil Attorney says:

    I can’t wrap my head around who would buy this. There is literally only 1 hydrogen fueling station in LA and only 8 in the entire state. It would basically be unusable for you unless you lived next door to one of the few stations.

    1. Snowdall says:

      Actually there are 3 in LA, but the point is well taken. Compared to the number of gas stations and EVSE, anyone who buys this will definitely be severely geographically limited.

      1. Anon says:

        Don’t really want anyone dumb enough to buy a handmade vehicle with 10,000 psi tanks of hydrogen, also driving it around Los Angles. 😛

        Oh well, it will make for good TV…

        1. Mike says:

          From what I hear, the danger is overstated. Supposedly Toyota has engineered the tank well enough so sudden ruptures are nearly impossible, and even if they do occur they won’t cause a catastrophic failure of the container and will instead she’d the gas fairly harmlessly (ie gas will rush out and dissipate quickly rather than explode) .

          That obviously doesn’t address the many, many difficult and nigh insurmountable obstacles hydrogen still faces as a consumer fuel, but at least hydrogen bombs blowing up on the street won’t be one of them (hopefully) .

          1. fail cells says:

            can’t wait to see the first explosion.

            1. Mike777 says:

              Will it blow out 10 blocks or 50, that’s the question.

              1. mr. M says:

                There will be no Explosion, except if somebody would really light a fire under the car.

                But the energy inside the tank is around 5 gallons gas. Yes it will boom, but no “block” will geht hurt. Maybe the windows of 1-3 houses. Thats worst case scenario…

            2. Lensman says:

              Good luck with seeing that. Hydrogen burns with a colorless flame.

              In fact, there’s an interesting story about how NASA engineers had to search for a burning leak in a hydrogen fuel tank: walk around it holding a piece of cardboard in front of them as they walked, hoping to see the cardboard char before they walked into the invisible flame.

              But interesting anecdotes aside, Mike is correct. A tank rupture in a hydrogen-powered fuel cell car is almost certainly not going to result in an “explosion”, unless you mean merely the highly compressed gas expanding rapidly as it dissipates. When enough time has passed for the minimum amount of oxygen to be mixed in with the gas to allow ignition (if I recall correctly, that requires at least 25% air mixed in with the hydrogen), the H2 will have mostly dissipated. And H2 is significantly lighter than air, so it will rapidly rise away from any accident.

              Someone wrote a comment on a previous InsideEVs article posing one of those “What if?” questions: What if the “fool cell” car is parked in a garage, and a slow leak develops, with hydrogen “pooling” near the ceiling, then something strikes a spark? Not impossible, of course. But a hole in an H2 tank isn’t likely to be a slow leak; it’s almost certainly going to expand very rapidly into a full rupture, given the pressure involved. There will be a BANG! all right. But that BANG! will be the tank rupturing, not a fiery explosion.

              Now, the tank rupturing is itself a real danger, under those pressures. One plan I’ve read about is to wrap the tank in a bag made of carbon fiber, to catch any shrapnel caused by a rupture. I have no idea if that safety design has been implemented by Toyota or not.

              Using hydrogen gas as fuel for a car is a very bad idea, for several reasons, including difficulty of handling and a per-kilogram price too high to ever compete with either gasoline or electricity. But I’ve seen nothing to convince me that there’s more danger from fire or explosion than there is in an ordinary gas guzzler. It seems to me that fear is just a leftover from the widespread misunderstanding about what caused the Hindenburg disaster.

            3. Speculawyer says:

              There has already been a hydrogen filling station explosion. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

              The big risk is if there is a leak that somehow collects in an enclosed space and then ignites. Those explosions at the Fukushima nuclear plants? Those were hydrogen explosions.

              1. Lensman says:

                Well, yes. If someone was foolish enough to set up a hydrogen fueling station indoors, where leaking H2 could build up and mix with air, it might well create conditions ripe for a very dangerous explosion. But then, you could say exactly the same about a gas station, and gasoline fumes. Gas stations aren’t built indoors, for that very reason. Presumably H2 fueling stations won’t be, either.

          2. AlanSqB says:

            Rushing out quickly into an area where a motor vehicle collision has recently occurred. What could possibly go wrong?

        2. sven says:

          Highly compressed hydrogen is so safe that even a child can fill up a FCV. 😀

          1. Foo says:

            She looks annoyed and seems to be putting the nozzle back, as if to say, “not this one”.

          2. Martin T says:

            Children are not so stupid to know that in reality Hydrogen fuel is an very inefficient energy loop doe use in cars and only exists to keep the status quo with fuel companies and governments happy at consumer $$ Expense.

            Real smart kids have parents who own a plug in charged by solar panels on the house.

            So they are driving on Sunshine charged at home.
            Now that’s a bright idea now isn’t it !

          3. philip d says:

            She is clearly thinking, “this is much heavier and more complicated than my parents L2 charger at home”

      2. Evil Attorney says:

        Yea, I guess it depends on what is technically LA, but still, with LA traffic, it will be near impossible to get hydrogen before/after work unless you live/work right next to a station. Crazy.

    2. Lensman says:

      If you look at a U.S. nationwide map of hydrogen fueling stations, you’ll see there are actually a couple of dozen in use.

      But look at the details for those stations, and you’ll see most do not offer public access. There appear to be a number of existing hydrogen fuel fleets; my understanding is most of them are government owned. So I can see that there is likely an established, if tiny, market for “fool cell” cars, selling to those fleets. What I do not understand is why anyone would buy one for use outside one of those fleets, which presumably are all geographically limited to their own hydrogen fueling station.

      Given that reality, I don’t understand why any U.S. dealer would want to occupy space on his lot, let alone his showroom, with a “fool cell” car. But perhaps they’re hoping for the advertising for such cars bringing potential customers into the showroom, where their salesmen can “bait and switch” them into buying a gas guzzler.

      Now, things are different in Japan. The government there is pushing fuel cell vehicles there very hard, so perhaps finding a fueling station there wouldn’t be as difficult. Of course, the laws of physics work the same way in Japan, so ultimately it’s still a huge boondoggle, and it seems inevitable that even in Japan, reality will set in within just a few years and the government will stop wasting money on them.

      I do feel sorry for anyone who gets sucked in by the propaganda for “fool cell” cars, and actually buys one (rather than leasing) for his own use. In future years, that will make buying an Edsel look like sheer genius.

    3. Andrew says:

      There’s one on 190th in Torrance about a mile from my house.

      I’m an early adopter, a satisfied former Toyota customer several times over, not concerned with styling, and can afford the Mirai.

      I just can’t figure out why in the world I might want one.

      1. Just_Chris says:

        Assuming you want to drive with zero tail pipe emissions the conversation probably starts with,

        Can you charge at home?

        If you can it’s a personal choice thing, if you can’t the conversation get’s more interesting.

        And before everyone weighs in on the benefits of EV’s vs FC vs PHEV’s vs CNG, Let me make my personal position clear. I would like to move to a world where any vehicle that emits anything toxic is banned from use in public places to do that there must be an option for everyone. I, like many here, have my concerns about this technology and how it will work out but at 3,000 a year this is a toe in the water similar to the Tesla roadster or maybe the EV1 lets see how this car goes and what can be achieved in the next generations

        1. Lensman says:

          Well, it is physically possible to have equipment in your garage that would electrolyze water and compress it sufficiently to power a FCV, altho I question that getting it as highly compressed as you would at a commercial hydrogen station could be done without elaborate equipment.

          Physically possible, but not at all cheap; neither cheap in terms of buying equipment, nor in terms of powering it. That sort of equipment does benefit somewhat from economy of scale, so making it at home would be even more outrageously expensive (regarding the cost of electricity consumed) than buying it at a hydrogen dispensing station. There’s also the question of how much space it would occupy.

          Of course, there’s no rational reason to do so. The only thing you can say for “fool cell” vehicles is that they don’t have the problem EVs do about waiting to recharge, or limited range. But a perfectly ordinary gas guzzler doesn’t have those limitations either, an even an average, 24 MPG American car has lower well-to-wheel carbon emissions than a “fool cell” vehicle does.

          Of course, you could argue that if the equipment needed to fuel the FCV was solar powered, it would have much lower carbon emissions. While true, keep in mind you’d need about 4-5 times as much square footage in solar panels to power a FCV as you’d need to power an EV, all else being equal.

          1. Just_Chris says:

            Sorry, what I meant is if you can home charge a leaf or other bev is a pretty compelling proposition but if you can’t charge at home then a car that u can fill at a gas station is probably a better option.

            1. Djoni says:

              Obviously, this is the only point that hydrogen proponent are offering.
              Stay with the same refilling infrastucture that already exist, and pay for it in the same pocket.
              So, home hydrogen refilling station, is something that add up on the irrational at this point.
              Providing recharge option for EV wherever you live would be by far a lot easyer than doing the same with hydrogen.

        2. Andrew says:

          Yes I can and do charge at home in my garage.

          But if I couldn’t, I can’t imagine choosing a Mirai over a Prius or Accord Hybrid.

          Other than “Gee-whiz this is neat” I can’t figure out why anyone might want to buy one.

      2. Evil Attorney says:

        Yea, I’ve only seen cars at the 190th location on a handful of occasions in the last few years. It seems to mostly get used by Toyota. Can you imagine if you lived in Santa Monica or somewhere of a similar distance, and having to drive down to Torrance after/before work to fill up. It would take hours on the 405.

  5. Ambulator says:

    The question isn’t if you’ll reject hydrogen, it’s when.

  6. James says:

    It’s like Toyota said, “What if we take the front of a Lamborghini Aventador, make the intakes twice as big, and then attach it to to a 2005 Hyundai Tiburon and give it four doors? And we’re done!”

  7. Evil Attorney says:

    Ha! If you go to the Mirai website, it has a section with a picture titled “Fueled by Bullsh*t”. Yup, that’s about right.

    1. Speculawyer says:

      Yeah, I can’t definitely agree with Toyota on that. Of course I’m using the term BS with its figurative meaning not the literal one.

      1. Speculawyer says:

        I CAN definitely agree with Toyota . . .

  8. sven says:

    Off topic: Yesterday at the dentist’s office, I was thumbing through New York Magazine and came across an article about Droga5, the NYC ad agency that did the Mirai Runs on Bullsh!t video/ad. It had some surprising/interesting info about the making of the video. While the dairy farm and digester were both located in central California, the methane produced was transported all the way to Boston to be steam reformed at a facility owned by Nuvera. Then the hydrogen was shipped to Atlanta to film the car in action on a road that wasn’t covered in snow. Isn’t there any place in all of California that can steam reform methane into hydrogen? :-\

    1. HVACman says:

      Yes, there are several hydrogen production plants in CA, mostly near refineries. California has a lot of refineries and they typically need a lot of hydrogen when “cracking” larger hydrocarbon molecules into smaller ones.

      The problem may have been that the commercial plants all use commercial natural gas. It takes some very special processing to take bio-gas (which usually is much lower in energy and methane content than commercial natural gas)and first refine it to get to the pure methane,then steam reform the resulting methane to H2. Probably very expensive, too. All a publicity stunt – not commercially viable – but then that is the definition of the hydrogen highway, right?

    2. Lensman says:

      sven said:

      “While the dairy farm and digester were both located in central California, the methane produced was transported all the way to Boston to be steam reformed at a facility owned by Nuvera. Then the hydrogen was shipped to Atlanta to film the car…”

      I am genuinely boggled, simply awestruck at this level of greenwashing, taken to heights previously undreamt of by even the most ardent Big Oil promotor! It’s not merely bulls**t, it’s refined essence of bulls**t!

      Somebody call Guiness.

      1. Genuinely laughed out loud at that one Lensman. Because I was thinking exactly the same thing after reading sven’s post. (*great* find sven!)

        Boggled + awestruck. Yep, that only begins to describe it.


        Stupefying was the other word that came to mind.

  9. I didn’t think I could get any more boggled after reading sven’s summary of the logistics required to produce the bull… for Toyota’s “Bullsh*t” ad. The needle was already pegged.

    But this took it up to 11:

    “Seriously,” (Droga’s Toyota Account Manager) Panariello would later joke. “If ‘Bullshit’ launches and is really successful, I am going to get so drunk I’ll have to get my stomach pumped.”

    Glad to know that there is no risk of Mr. Panariello putting his life in danger.

  10. I hadn’t actually finished reading the article. It’s all clear now:

    Panariello “…has become fundamentally much more complex and demanding of your soul and your life.”

    I’m not sure if he’s implying he made a deal with the devil at the crossroads, but please someone get this man a priest. If counseling isn’t sufficient, an exorcism may be in order.

  11. ad says:

    Braindeadz will buy this nonsence

  12. Steven says:

    Get back to me when there are enough Hydrogen stations, that I could drive from coast to coast.

  13. mhpr262 says:

    The longer I look at the Mirai …. no, it is still horrifyingly ugly.

  14. Big Solar says:

    These are gonna sell like hotcakes! Bwahahaha!!

  15. Anton Wahlman says:

    The hydrogen fuel is too expensive now, but I find it comical that most people who are complaining about the Mirai actually haven’t driven one. Isn’t that what they said about people who hadn’t driven an electric car, including Tesla?

    1. Lou Grinzo says:

      And what all those people — including me — are complaining about, re:HFCVs, is the price and the refueling infrastructure. Not having driven one is not even an issue.

      The people who criticize EVs out of ignorance are often slamming them for being “golf carts” with a 25-mile range. I hear it all the time about my Leaf, and then I educate people, take them for a drive, etc., and their opinion changes dramatically. No proponent of HFCVs can do the same.

    2. Lensman says:

      I don’t think I’ve ever complained about the “fool cell” car itself. But I don’t need to drive a FCV to understand that the Laws of Physics (Thermodynamics) and the realities of economics (EROI) make it a fact, not opinion, that using hydrogen fuel to power a car is not economically viable.

      Whether or not anybody thinks any particular car is great, terrible, or just mediocre, is a matter of opinion, and opinions differ greatly. Contrariwise, we don’t get to vote on the laws of physics. They are what they are.

    3. Big Solar says:

      I could see comparing this to a Leaf or I3 but not a Tesla.

  16. The hydrogen station in Diamond Bar, California, is $13.99 for “H70” (presumably, 700 atmospheres pressure).