Toyota Mirai At New York Auto Show – East Coast Hydrogen Fueling Stations Coming Soon

APR 2 2015 BY MARK KANE 39

Image Credit: InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney

Image Credit: InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney

Toyota presents at the 2015 New York Auto Show its hydrogen fuel cell car the Mirai.

The car of the future this time is in white color and was connected to the model of a home, supplying power through its CHAdeMO inlet in the trunk (charging capability of tiny battery pack isn’t available).

Range of Mirai at one fill is stated at 300 miles, while an optional power take off (PTO) can deliver up to 9 kW of power (60 kWh total), enough for emergency situations.

There’s a model of a hydrogen station on display too and our man at the show, Tom Moloughney, indicates that a new infrastructure project with 12 hydrogen refueling stations from New York to Boston is coming soon.

Many sites for stations have already been identified and are awaiting groundbreaking, which for sure would help the Mirai rollout in the area.

Image Credit: InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney

Image Credit: InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney

Image Credit: InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney

Image Credit: InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney

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39 Comments on "Toyota Mirai At New York Auto Show – East Coast Hydrogen Fueling Stations Coming Soon"

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Ugh.

+1. It also pains me that they’re touting back-up power for a home when battery electric vehicles are just as capable of doing this, if the automakers wanted to include that feature (which doesn’t even require much extra hardware/cost in the car)

Presumably, if power is down for an extended period, one can merely drive one’s fuel cell car to the station, refill it in about five minutes, return to the home, and power it for another three to four days. That seems difficult to do with an electric car.

Dr. Miguelito Loveless

Provided the hydrgen fueling station:

1) Exists. Only 8 operational in the entire state of California right now.

2) Has power to produce and dispense hydrogen.

Much easier to find a working electric socket than a functional hydrgen station at the moment.

“1)Only 8 operational in the entire state of California right now.” See, there you go Mr. Loveless. Gotta Be factual. Actually there is a total of 10 public Hydrogen fueling stations in California! lol (Readers please note, the date is April 2, 2015- April Fools Day is over! lol) Only two more public hydrogen fueling station in the entire continental USA! At $2,000,000 per station, this is gonna be interesting to watch. Ching Ching of Tax Payer Money$$. Watch the spread of Hydrogen Fueling Stations here. Link Goes To DoE Alternative Energy Center, Real Time Alternative Fueling Station Counter-(Last Updated 04.02.2015)- http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/stations_counts.html In Contrast note that there are north of 1.5 billion 110V AC outlets in North America and all Electric Fueled Vehicles available in the U.S. can refuel this way. Sleep charging with 110V AC nails 100% of daily range needs for the 74% of commuters that drive the national average 34 miles a day or less! – On the other hand, L2 public EV Filling Stations are multipling like rabbits. Over 32,000 now in place, many free to use as Customer Loyalty Comped offerings and emission free, smog reducing long term driving promotions. DC Fast, both formats, plus… Read more »

Actually there is only one PUBLIC hydrogen fueling station in California. The others are not licensed to sell hydrogen to the public.

There are fifty under construction.

True. Or you can drive your EREV to the corner gas station and refill the tank in about 5 minutes. Even the i3 REx can easily provide 9kW to power your house.

what a load of crap

iiiiiii. My five year old daughter knows that our Leaf is charging with our solar panels, but how we should charge this…

“Range of Mirai at one fill is stated at 300 miles, while an optional power take off (PTO) can deliver up to 9 kW of power (60 kWh total), enough for emergency situations.”

Interesting, so a Mirai could DC charge my Leaf via Chademo.

Or DC charge your Tesla via CHAdeMO adapter. 😉

*Almost* DC charge your Tesla via CHAdeMO adapter.

I assume it leaves a buffer so that you can get to your nearby(sic) hydrogen station? Too bad it can’t just recharge when the power comes back on… Either way 60kwh is best case and only if you have a full tank (not as often as with an electric car).

No – you’d need power electronics in between the two ends of a hypothetical double-ended Chademo cable to do DC to DC conversion and control how much energy goes in which direction. If you just hooked up one car’s battery to another, energy would by default flow from the higher DC voltage to the lower DC voltage, but there would likely be a huge current spike, you’d have no control over charging, and you’d be relying on the voltage/SOC characteristics of your battery and voltage output of the fuel cell line up nicely. Looks like the Mirai stack and NiMH battery operate around 245V, and I don’t think the Nissan Leaf battery ever gets that low – so if you hooked those two up, the Leaf would just start dumping whatever energy it has left into the Mirai battery until something freaks out and shuts down.

403 volts – Tesla Model S-85
395 volts – LEAF and BMW i3
386 volts – Toyota RAV4 EV w/Tesla battery
369 volts – Mercedes B-Class ED w/ Tesla battery

And next, they’ll install coaling stations for steam-powered cars. I mean, as long as they’re supporting obsolete technology, why stop with hydrogen-fuel cars?

It’s obvious that 300 miles is not a realistic range with only 60kWh of energy. 200 miles is probably more realistic. It should suffer less range degredation in the winter than an EV thanks to the extra waste heat.

Is 60kWh the total capacity of the vehicle’s tanks, or is that how much you can get from the PTO with full tanks? I’m guessing the latter. In which case, maybe they are keeping 30kWh in the tanks so you can still travel 100 miles to your nearest hydrogen filling station 😉

Yeah after some more research it seems that after conversion losses it should have about 90kWh so 300 miles should be acheievable. Still quite a bit less than the 430 miles they quote on the JC08.

I came across an interesting article about Nippon mobile hydrogen stations in Japan that look like regular box trucks, but have a bunch of tanks and a dispenser in the enclosed box, which opens up with gull wing doors. I believe they drive the trucks to a central hydrogen filling facility at night, then drive it to a fixed location for daytime fuel dispensing, kind of like a pop up hydrogen filling station.

The other interesting part of article is the cost of the truck, cost of H2 fuel, hours of operation, and max number of car that can be filled per day. To cut to the chase:

Cost of mobile H2 station: $1.67 to $2.51 million (200 to 300 Yen), about half the price of setting up a permanent H2 station in Japan.

Cost of H2 Fuel: $10.02 per kilogram (1,200 Yen per kilogram). Cost to fill 4.3 kilogram tank from empty $43.09.

Hours of operation: open only on weekdays from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m.

Fueling capacity: a mobile station can carry enough fuel for about five vehicles

Time to fill: approximately three minutes to fill up a tank


http://fuelcellsworks.com/news/2015/03/25/first-mobile-hydrogen-fueling-station-opens-in-tokyo/

So, it takes a truck as big and complex (and obviously expensive) as that just to carry and dispense hydrogen fuel for five (5) cars?

Anybody who thinks hydrogen fuel will -ever- be able to compete on cost with gasoline — let alone the much lower cost of charging an EV — has to ignore reality very firmly indeed.

Dr. Miguelito Loveless

Wow, it takes a truck that big and that expensive to carry a meager 25 kg of hydrogen?

electric-car-insider.com

Great post Sven.

I agree.

In for a penny in for a pound. Toyota is sort of stuck. It’s like watching a train wreck in super slow-motion.

Get them on the market ASAP. I want all to be able to judge them with their real specs instead of being this endless source of FUD.

Intrinsically I like the idea of hydrogen. And I welcome any and all possible ways of powering a vehicle … you guys remember the compressed-air car or using high angular momentum flywheels?? I figure the more attempts at a solution there are, the better there is a chance at an answer.

That having been said, it is starting to become pretty apparent that BEV’s are going to be the logical path going forward. The majority of the major technical issues are sorted out, standards agreed upon, and now we are on a track of steady and regular improvements in kWh/pound ratios. Hydrogen just seems to be perpetually finding it’s way.

That’s because hydrogen is being pushed by the fossil fuel industry as a solution to a problem. A problem most of us won’t have.

The “problem” they are attempting to solve is finding a new market for their product, which could be obsolete due to BEVs.

And the sooner it’s obsolete, the better for everyone who’s not collecting a paycheck from Big Oil.

MikeG, I agree.

+1

They’re trying to keep us dependent on ‘substances’.

To the general public (that is mostly incapable of critical thought), they don’t give a sh*t what happens to Big Oil. As long as they can drive their car.

Putting a substance in your car is familiar. Most people are resistant to change, so that’s a big advantage for the hydrogen car that nobody can take away from them.

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem to me. I’m gathering 60 kwh is the amount of electicity obtained from the fruel cell after all losses are included.

Most people who can afford this car will have some sort of backup facility already, such as a portable generator. Or a natural gas fueled automatic unit.

But if the stations cost 1 1/2 million a pop, there will be ]none installed around here.

Don’t worry, Bill. NYC will get a hydrogen station or two, I can pretty much guarantee it. And you and I will end up footing part of the bill to boot!

Did you and Eric want to do lunch next Friday? Or are you still on your winter schedule?

Hydrogen stations coming to the east coast?

Here’s me, here’s me not holding my breath.

Wanna see that again?

With a 300 mile range, I see filling stations near or between D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, NY, and Boston. Basically the Northeast Corridor.

So explain why I shouldn’t take the Acela instead?

We have hydrogen stations on the east coast but they are either for government use only or fill up by appointment only.

Sorry there is one hydrogen station operating on the east coast pumping hydrogen at $6.00 per gallon! Won’t make me scrap me 370Z any time soon.

I wish someone in the government would wise up and realize putting in hydrogen infrastructure is a huge waste of effort and money. In 3 years, BEVs (and PHEVs) will take over any effort in hydrogen, as people will realize they can plug in at home and not have to deal with hydrogen, which, by the way, is not flammable like gasoline, it will actually explode when ignited or the highly pressurized tank were punctured (remember that Tesla that got jabbed from underneath? well, if that had been a hydrogen car and that hit the tank, the car would have immediately exploded.) Contrary to movies and TV, gasoline cars do not explode in accidents, though they can catch fire, they have to add explosives to cars for those movie & TV explosions. Not to mention the other many problems with hydrogen. As Elon Musk, one who heads up a rocket company and electric car company (so he knows what he’s talking about), hydrogen is good for rockets, but everything on the road can be powered by a battery. Hydrogen is not efficient. Hydrogen must be extracted from something else, it is not something you gather, it is married to other… Read more »

The big problem here is, technically, hydrogen cars can be called electric, as it does power a small battery that powers an electric motor. Thus adding more confusion to the consumer about what really is an electric car.

It’s too bad that both Toyota and Honda are going to be so far behind in a few years. Except, they will have electric drivetrains, but, they’ll have to get some battery deals going.

Toyota and Honda used to be favorites, but, my next car will be electric, and, apparently, not Japanese.