Toyota Admits To Losing Previously Loyal Customers To Tesla

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JAN 29 2019 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 85

It comes as no surprise that the Tesla Model 3 is impacting Toyota Prius Sales.

Automotive News reminds us that Toyota is a top dog in the automotive industry. The automaker boasts very loyal customers and high profitability. However, at a recent meeting surrounding Lexus facilities upgrades, the company’s future outlook was a critical topic, primarily due to Tesla. This is likely due in part to the fact that Lexus sales were flat in 2018. Moreover, Toyota is seeing increased customer defection. Lexus National Dealer Council outgoing chairman Carl Sewell III said:

We’ve got great product today, but in this type of market, we need to make sure that we’re not only solving one part of the equation, which is sub-$50,000. We’ve got to look for the future, in that more premium luxury utility-vehicle space.

This comment doesn’t seem to be directly related to Tesla or electrification. However, one can easily see that there are concerns about Lexus not reaching the higher-end market or focusing enough on the future. Clearly, the Model S and X are surely not first-rate luxury cars. Still, they fit in a much higher price bracket and are arguably more future-proof than many rivals.

When it comes to Toyota in general, the automaker is seeing an increasing loss of customers. More specifically, Prius owners are moving to the Tesla Model 3. According to Automotive News, Toyota’s defection rate is around nine percent. Interestingly, CEO of Toyota Motor North America Jim Lentz admitted that half of those previously loyal customers are moving to Tesla.

Toyota has already made some plans to negate this. The Prius now comes standard with Toyota Safety Sense. In addition, all-wheel drive is available. Toyota National Dealer Council chairman Dan Abel shared:

They like [technology] advancement, they like state-of-the-art. That vehicle has that, and those are things that draw customers to continue to purchase the vehicle. Then, you add in that new e-all-wheel-drive system, and it makes it even better.

Nonetheless, according to a report by Tesla, the Toyota Prius tops the list of non-Tesla cars that are traded in by Model 3 buyers. It will be interesting to see what the future brings for Toyota.

Source: Automotive News

Categories: Tesla, Toyota

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85 Comments on "Toyota Admits To Losing Previously Loyal Customers To Tesla"

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LOL, LOL, LOL!
I guess Tesla’s Karma is running over Coyota’s anti-BEV Dogma!

I was one of those loyal Toyota customers. I absolutely loved my 2010 Prius for its reliability, practicality, and efficiency. If the Prius Prime didn’t have the battery hump in the back, I would definitely have purchased one, as it is a crazy efficient car, even with the limited all electric. But their refusal to really support plug-in’s (BEV’s included) to this point has totally turned me off. It would take a lot to get me to buy another one. Instead I got a Bolt, my first american car in 35 years of driving.

The Prius selling point was the best fuel economy, greener and backed up by high reliability. But with BEVs Prius no longer offers the best ‘fuel’ economy and is less green than a BEV. The new Prius won’t help the decline because, with an ICE engine, it can’t beat a BEV for efficiency, greening status or reliability and maintenance costs. Toyota’s slow moved to BEVs caused Prius to drop below BEVs in desirability and green status. Prius won’t have a chance of regaining traction until it becomes a BEV.

Prius sales have also been cannabalized by hybrid options now offered for other Toyota and Lexus models, and Toyota has greatly reduced the hybrid premium to as little as $600 over conventional ICE counterparts. The hybrid Camry now gets 52 MPG with a larger hybrid ICE that makes it much quicker and more powerful than the anemic Prius. The RAV4 hybrid CUV now gets 43 miles per gallon, while Toyota has stopped producing Prius V and is working on a refresh. Likewise, in the luxury segment, the Lexus ES and RX hybrids have a large take rate.

But hybrids are still polluting cars with that gas engine. Not the solution but part of the problem.

No, it is a gateway car for those that can use shorter range but want longer range. Not the most efficient, but cheaper. I drove a Ford Energi for 4.5 year, running 85.7% on battery. After 65,000 I was still averaging 96.5 mpge, oh so much stomping all over anything hybrid. I averaged 65 days between tankfuls.

That experience gave me to the confidence to go all in BEV and have even done a 400 mile day in mine.

Personally I have become an advocate of just renting a car when needed for long distance. An EV still can’t compete with an ICE in that regard. Sure a 400 mile day isn’t nothing, but I recently drove across the country in three days, with 850 mile, 1000 mile and 660 mile days. You still can’t do that in an EV because there literally aren’t enough hours in the day to account for charging (to be fair, it was grueling doing it solo even in an ICE).

In any case, I realize some people will not accept it, but if you only rarely do long drives, renting a car for them is completely viable. I wouldn’t even bother with a plug-in hybrid unless you quite frequently do more than 200 mile drives.

However, because some people won’t be comfortable/satisfied with that, I agree with you that it is good that plug-in hybrids exist.

Better yet, if you don’t NEED to drive cross country just fly.

The duty cycle for a Tesla M3 at %80 charge is about 3 hours over 20 minutes for continuous travel. I doubt your bladder or stomach is rated for better than that.

Most of these “can’t travel in a BEV” scenarios are based on pure imagination. Nobody travels like college students on speed, except for, well, college students on speed.

LMAO, Coyota has been forced to drop their “hybrid premium” because they now have to compete with real BEVs from other manufacturers that are more efficient and sustainable so Coyota is behind the curve.

Bloggin,
Toyota went beyond Prius stage that are you talking about years ago.
Now hybrid is an option across most of their product line, from Yaris and Corolla to Avalon and RAV4, not the single dedicated model as Prius.

Hybrid sales are somewhat down in the US, or shifting to crossovers/SUVs. Gas is cheap. But in Europe Toyota hybrid sales skyrocketed and reached half of all their sales. The rest of the world is also up.

The current Prius is ugly, there has been a steady shift to SUV/CUV and gasoline has been cheap since peaking in 2014. It is still an amazing value and far superior to any EV for a road trip. 550 mile real range, 50 mpg at 75 mph, all the heating and cooling you could ever want, and 5 min refueling at tens of thousands of conveniently located gasoline stations. They are cleaning up the nightmare appearance for ’19 and adding a part time AWD model that only looses 2-3% of mileage. The TM3 is hip and the Prius no longer is. The TM3 is exciting to drive and the Prius never was. The Prius is half the price and has bullet proof reliability.

The also ugly Prime is superior (and about the same price after credit/rebates) IF you can live with the lump in the trunk. If they would put the Prime battery under the back seat and add an AWD option it would be a beast.

I’m thinking about an AWD Prius and a used Fiat 500e for zipping around town and EASY PARKING when my current PHEV lease runs out.

The loyal customers are the ones still with Toyota, unless the definition of loyal has changed recently.

People are trading in their Toyota Mirai FCVs for cars that run on dead baby seal oil.

It is misleading. Tesla only claimed list of top 5 “Non-Tesla” trade-ins for Model 3, last summer or so.

You may guess full list of trade-ins included Tesla, and it is anybody’s guess if it is first or not.

Someone trading in a Tesla for another Tesla isn’t a defection so it’s not relevant to this article.

Is it relevant? That depends — what portion of trade-ins are Teslas and what portion are non-Teslas? If the trade-ins are, for example, 90% non-Teslas, then the positioning of the Prius (or any other specific make or model) is interesting. The higher the portion of Tesla trade-ins, the less interesting is any analysis of the non-Teslas.

I would guess that at this stage of Teslas life and the rEVolution in general that trade-ins are overwhelmingly non-Tesla, simply because the vast majority of trade-ins on any EV are non-EVs.

“It comes as no surprise that the Tesla Model 3 is impacting Toyota Prius Sales”…well, since Model 3 is currently about twice the price of Prius color met at least somewhat surprised.

I think a lot of people buying a Prius can afford a more expensive car, but they buy it because it is “green”. If a more expensive “green” car comes along that they like better I don’t think it bars them from purchasing it. Remember when actors were all driving Priuses because they were the great new green tech? Well now it is Tesla.

Also, in California the hybrid Prius no longer qualifies for HOV lane stickers, while BEVs like Tesla still qualify.

Yes, the bar has moved and hybrids have not been carpool eligible for 8 years, Coyota should get with the program:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/vr/decal

What the hell?! The regular hybrids lost their right long time ago, dude! The Prime still gets the sticker.

That’s it, I forgot how its massive smug emission gave the Pius appeal beyond its rather humble class.

I like Toyota’s cars, but they are living in the past, and as regards FCV, there they are projecting an irrelevance as the future. Hard to turn an ocean going vessel, but first you have to spin the wheel in the right direction.

I think FCV have a place just not the normal consumer vehicle. I’m sure military vehicles, ships, etc.. might benefit from FC.

I recently saw a somewhat convincing YouTube video arguing that fusion power might be just ten to twenty years away, like for real this time around. I can’t really judge that question, but I was not aware of the prices that has been made, nor the large projects that are in fact underway. For a long time I’ve been saying FCVs are ridiculous abs not going to happen, the only thing that could change that is if we had an overabundance of clean, cheap energy. Well, fusion power could provide that. It’d take decades to get enough plants to have all the power needed everywhere it’s needed, but perhaps it can happen in this century, or even by 2050. I’m not convinced FCVs make any sense even then, but certainly more so than without fusion. Their Achilles heel has always been that they are so inefficient, but that mattered only because we don’t have nearly enough clean energy and need to reduce our use of dirty energy as fast as possible. Secondarily FCVs are more complex and require hugely expensive infrastructure. But if get the chance to run all airplanes and ships on hydrogen made by electrolysis while still having… Read more »

We already have fusion power from the sun + PV. Why spend all that money to contain it in a can?

Agree that FCVs are a complex irrelevancy for personal transportation.

“Why spend all that money to contain it in a can?” we do, its called a battery.

I’ve been reading articles expressing hope that we are finally getting close to practical fusion power for decades. I’d love to think it’s real this time, but my hopes have been dashed too many times in the past.

“Fusion power has been 20 years away for 50 years.” But now it’s more like 70 years.

What finally soured me on the prospect of fusion was a good article that explained that even if we had fusion working tomorrow, the current state of the art is that it generates tremendous amounts of radiation. The spent fuel products, the apparatus, everything involved would become toxic waste. Totally clean fusion is a completely imaginary product on top of a currently imaginary product (fusion).

By the time Fusion power becomes *techologically* viable, if ever, solar and wind will be so cheap that it won’t mater. Bill Gates, among others, is wrong about this: we don’t need a revolutionary technology, evolution of currently existing technology is sufficient to get us to a green future. All we need is the will to do it, which unfortunately is lacking most places besides California and some countries in Europe.

I would like to see wind replaced with something that doesn’t blight the landscape. I am from Montana, and when I come upon a vista that used to be wide open space and rolling hills or mountains and instead there is a row of unsightly wind generators it is disappointing. I like the green energy but don’t kid yourself that it doesn’t blight the land the generators are on.

Deep water wind solves all these issues. The mills are over the horizon in open ocean, and don’t kill birds since birds stick to land. With today’s very large and efficient mills, large ships can just sail between them. Being over the horizon, they are unseen, and there is more power generated over the open oceans.

The north sea has such arrays now, and they are a big success. Its coming to the USA now.

Strongly agree. We’re at a phase of renewable energy technology where better public policy is much more important than additional technological breakthroughs.

For example, one trend that’s catching on here in the US is community solar — essentially neighborhood-owned solar PV installations. Public policy, in the form of tax law and incentives, can have an immense multiplier effect on how many of these, their size, location, etc. are built.

Terawatt – quote: “For a long time I’ve been saying FCVs are ridiculous abs not going to happen, the only thing that could change that is if we had an overabundance of clean, cheap energy. Well, fusion power could provide that. ” ———————— A interesting post, Terawatt, but even if fusion power does come on stream, then two things – even if all the technical problems were solved overnight it will be (as you say) several decades before such becomes widespread. Secondly, then whilst fusion may be “green” and the fuel may be “free” – the cost of constructing the plants isn’t. So efficiency will STILL be important. So as hydrogen via electrolysis is about 3x as inefficient as battery storage, a hydrogen economy would mean 3 x as many power stations – and 3x the capital expenditure. And – don’t forget the capital and maintenance costs of the electrolysis stations themselves. This is against a background of battery storage rapidly getting better and cheaper. In the timescale you refer to, I just don’t see hydrogen getting a significant toehold. It seemed an “answer” when batteries weren’t remotely viable – times have changed. Maybe fusion power and battery storage a few… Read more »

Yet again, let me point out: The most obvious next step for Toyota (not counting non-plug-in hybrids) is a Prius BEV. And I would bet that they’ve either already done the R&D on this, or it’s in process. Toyota is playing the system to maximize their profits, and that includes bashing EVs repeatedly in public statements. And they’ll continue doing that right up to the moment when they perceive (key word) that it’s in their best interest to make an EV push. We might be seeing the beginning of that sea change with the way they’re backing off on FCVs and talking about them for long distance trucks.

Agreed. I’ve said the same about GM. What the say and what they are doing behind the scenes can be two very different things.

Yeah and it generally involves them killing off product they had talked about in the past. MP5 Volt, Buick Bolt, etc. They certainly have a problem living up to their word.

“next step for Toyota (not counting non-plug-in hybrids) is a Prius BEV.”
No! Give this turd a proper burial and actually make a good ev on its own platform….and make it look normal!

If I were running Toyota, I’d do what you suggest. But keep in mind this is Toyota, and like most large corporations they are obsessed with branding, which in this case means they’re most likely to extend the Prius family and paint it as a natural evolution/extension of their hybrid work instead of bringing out an entirely new vehicle that’s obviously not a Prius.

(My original comment was meant to indicate what I think they’ll do, not what I think they should do.)

That’s basic marketing 101, bash what you don’t have right up to the moment that you introduce your own. Chances are that’s what Toyota is doing. But it’s also common for very successful companies to drink their own koolaid and convince themselves that they don’t have to change. The mini computer companies all refused to build PCs because they didn’t see a way to make the same margins as they did on big computers, every one of them went out of business. Toyota may have genuinely believed that hybrids are inherently better than EVs, they are cheaper, just as clean in places where electricity is dirty, and need no new infrastructure so they might not have anything in the works. The loss of Prius customers might be a wake up call but if they are just getting the message now you shouldn’t expect an EV from them in less than three years.

Yep…. I was a loyal Prius driver from around 2001 to 2011 when I traded in my Prius for a Leaf. I always drove a Prius because I liked cars that were high-tech. The Prius was THE car to have for that. But once cars with plugs started showing up, the Prius was old-tech. However, the Prius Prime isn’t a bad car. Sure it’s no Model-3, but is’a also nearly half the price of a Model-3. But for all the good it does, Toyota isn’t producing enough and the dealers aren’t stocking them in most of the country.

It doesn’t make any sense to buy Prius Prime outside California or North East, or other EV mandate states that provides incentives to automaker.

You may find some, but it would cost something like $35k for you, so why they would stock car that isn’t going to sell. Regular Prius is cheaper, has fifth seat, smaller and cheaper battery, and maybe even slightly better fuel economy. $2 gas makes any “fuel savings” moot point anyway.

If you want Prime outside these states, it may be better to buy plane ticket to North East or California, buy there and drive back, and save close to $10k or so. And there are plenty of them stocked there.

Prime starts at $27,350 while regular starts at $23,770…that is a difference you can recoup in gas savings in 10 years of ownership pretty much anywhere in the states….without any credits.

You may get Prime for less. See Autotrader for example, the advertise $22k somewhere in New Jersey. But not in non-CARB states like South East, where automakers don’t get any CARB credits for selling plugins. Prices are completely different.
That was my point why dealers don’t stock in everywhere.

And please no this tired “gas savings” meme. It doesn’t pass basic math test on East coast.
56 mpg on $2/gal gas is $3.57/100 mi for Prius Eco
25 kWh/100mi at 11 cents/kWh like my utility charges (below US average 13 cents) is $2.75/100 mi for Prime.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39882&id=39753

You save $0.82 per 100 mi. Or $820 per 100,000 miles only.
May add up for a taxi driver but most are not taxi drivers.
If a state collects full average gas car road tax at $200+/year like Georgia does for plugins, it gets worse.

If you get $2 gas you are special….we are a different king of special here in CA. And as i mentioned before, and you know this too, the averages mean nothing. The places where ev are found in big numbers are the ones with higher gas prices and fairly low ev rate plans from utilities. Gas in my are is $3.5 and the ev rate is 12c.
To give you another example where prices really are $2….Texas, they also have even cheaper electric rates….no to mention some time ago i was reading some of the companies even had free charging times to get rid of the wind surplus.
And gas is not the only thing an ev will save you, btw.
Let me guess…cherry picking is your favorite time of year?

Mark.ca,

No, just pointing out again that what you see in California is not how things work in the whole country or the world. The discussion was specifically about places in the US where Prime is not stocked, so why insert some California only prices here again?

You know this too, the averages mean nothing. $2 gas is common in South East, few cents more or less. Electric rate varies. E.g. my utility doesn’t give any discounts for free below regular $0.11/kWh that everybody gets here.

I love how people can be so ridiculously myopic as to think that the price of gasoline never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever changes.

When it came time to trade in our 2012 Prius C we looked hard at the Prime. As much as I though we needed a PHEV, the engineering argument against them ended that brief interest (never makes ROI on cost difference, weight of two drivetrains, neither drivetrain optimized for purpose, gutless throttle response, bad weight distro, etc.). To be frank, I was tired of driving a gutless car and having to wait for giant gaps in traffic just to keep from slowing down the flow. We loved the low fuel cost of the Prius but we were looking for a peppier solution to using the excess electricity from our new solar panels. Toyota did not offer one. We ended up getting the 2018 BMW i3s with a REX (and loving it).

I do not believe a PHEV is significantly any more complex than a regular hybrid, like your Prius C. if you stop and think about it, the only significant difference is the larger battery in the PHEV, and the presence of a charge door and AC to DC converter to charge the battery. The inverter and drive motors are upgraded in some cases, but the Prius Prime uses the same drivetrain as the regular Prius, other than the small addition of a small one-way clutch for the ICE. To be honest, this is why I am baffled why Toyota hasn’t embraced the PHEV. They are already 90% of the way there with their regular hybrids.

You don’t get the benefits of an EV by just increasing the size of the battery. The difference between a Volt and a Prius Prime is that the Volt was built as an EV first, the Prius is an ICE first. As a result the Volt has much better performance, it runs on battery alone at all speeds and only uses its engine for range extension. The Prius needs the power from it’s engine to supplement it’s weaker motors, it has no better performance than the regular Prius.

Had a Prime for over a year and own two Leafs. The Prime is great and not sluggish. People posting here need to actually experience a Prime.

So Toyota’s take on the sales decline is “they have AWD and they have Autopilot, that MUST be why people are defecting” So they add those features to their ICE hybrid and think they are going to get the customers back. It’ll be 2 more years before they realize they were fooling themselves and that the defections are because EVs are actually better. Sheesh.

Again, please don’t confuse their words and their beliefs. I would bet anything that Toyota knows electrification is inevitable, and they’re milking the last years of the FF era for all they can via a mix of products and PR.

The critical points in the next few years will be when each car maker perceives that it’s in their best interest to start making and marketing EVs. Each company will be on a slightly different timeline from other companies, and their epiphanies will interact, as the first major movers among the Legacies will force the hand of other companies. I expect we’ll see a mix of things like Honda suddenly announcing a car that clearly took 4 or 5 years to develop (and one we didn’t see coming), and other companies scrambling to form JVs (e.g. Ford + VW) in an effort to avoid being left behind.

Do Not Read Between The Lines
The safety/ACC has been there all the time in Gen 4 and it didn’t help stop the Prius sales decline. The decline started before Gen 4, and if it made things worse, it wasn’t by much. Year-to-year sales of the Prius+Plug-in have decreased almost month over the past 5 years. Annual drop of Prius+Plug-in sales over the last 5 years have been 14.2%, 12.9%, 14.1%, 15.5%, 9.9%, resulting in a drop compared to 2013 of 51.1%. In 2018 total US sales were _77,129_. In addition they’ve dropped the Prius v, and Prius c sales have collapsed to less than 1/4 of where they were 3 years ago. When gas is cheap, only a small part of the market actually cares enough about gasoline use, energy efficiency or pollution to consider the Prius, but people are turning to alternatives. The AWD might help the Prius a bit, but now they’re finally bringing Corolla Hybrid, which I expect will lead to the Prius c no longer being sold in the USA, and Prius HEV sales being cannibalized further. I think we might only be left with the AWD Prius and the Prime for a few more years until Toyota stops selling the… Read more »

We had 6 Priuses in the family (including brother/sister in-laws). We are now down to 4 Priuses and 2 Teslas. They were ahead of their time with the Prius, but technology moved past them. I don’t see buying another Prius ever – their time is past for me (maybe not others who are still freaked out by EVs, or those who want to dip a toe in the “electrified” waters). A Toyota pickup was on the replacement list for my old Chevy colorado, but scratch that plan. No more ICE for me.

I was and still Toyota loyal. Their cars and reliability are great, but I moved to Tesla recently as Toyota didn’t have any plans for BEV
After driving Tesla, now am convinced beyond doubt that Tesla is the greatest and very forward thinking, and not to forget it is a very fun car to drive.
Tesla OTA cannot be provided by any other established companies, unless they are willing to design the vehicle from scratch, so not anytime soon will I be moving to other companies other than Tesla. Yes, you read it right, now, my loyalty has completely changed to Tesla
My Top 1 reason for buying a Tesla is Elon Musk, and the day the other companies will have an Elon Musk, I will think of buying the other car.
Not just being a fan, but speaking my heart out

Musk is a dangerous liability. He will destroy Tesla.

Toyota IMHO makes transportation appliances, not cars. It’s not bad though

> [Tesla’s cars] are arguably more future-proof than many rivals. Arguably, but also arguably the opposite. The Swedish type approval authority, Trafikstyrelsen, is currently considering the possibility of banning Tesla’s cars, and has written to their Dutch counterpart which has approved Tesla’s vehicles for sale in the EU, arguing that Tesla does not comply with safety regulations. The problem? Precisely what you consider future-proof. It is illegal to modify a car in a way that can substantially alter its safety without obtaining a new type approval. And Tesla’s unique ability to update not just the infotainment systems but also everything else, like how the brakes work or autopilot, clearly is a bit tricky in this regard. How can the regulator ensure that approved cars really meet the standards and pass all tests, if the manufacturer can change them at any moment and in any way? I don’t know how much of an issue this really is. As far as I know, the type approval authorities are little more than rubber stampers anyway — the manufacturer, or often third parties paid by the manufacturers to do the testing, do the actual testing and submit documentation to the authority, which in turn… Read more »

I enjoyed driving my ’04 Prius for 184k mi., especially when coaxing it to motivate on electric only. Those particular events caused me to strongly consider EV when replacement time came and ultimately (for many reasons) resulted in my choosing a Volt. The driving experience with EVs familiar to all EV owners was THE compelling reason for buying the Volt; not mpg’s, styling, price, etc. I can’t imagine ever going back to a gas powered car, even if gas was free. Readers, take note. I’m well aware that the Volt has a gas engine. It essentially is never used. If/when this one goes, replacement will be a BEV.

I’ve only been in a Prius once using Uber. I was never interested in efficient cars until I sold my Lexus IS300 in 2011 for a Volt. Now with a Model 3, I don’t think there is anything Toyota/Lexus can offer to get me back.

Except price, service, reliability and fit, finish.

Keep losing Toyota, your denial is exactly the same as climate change deniers.
After all being World #2 gives it a sense of arrogance like VW.

They can still fix Prius by raising the height a little bit and classifying it as a crossover.
And sell it as
Hybrid: Which is still better than regular gassers.
Plugin Hybrid: 25 mile electric range and then running 50 MPG on gas.
Fuelcell Hybrid: Will have small hydrogen cylinder for 100 mile range and then running 50 MPG on gas.
This will be a winning trio.

Rename the Prius C to Toyota Aqua like in Japan. Eliminate the Prius +/Alpha since its not selling well anyway.
A car should have a distinct model and should not have C, V … which only disturbs the only PRIUS.

The climate is changing. Too bad Climate Deniers don’t realize the Globe is getting COLDER. Chicago is going to shell-shock most millennials who have only been told ‘Settled Science proves the earth will boil in 12 years’.

I’m on record here much over a year ago – to expect much more interesting volcano activity and colder temps.

The rejoinder of course, is that “oh, it just the weather, its not a long-term thing”.

If that is the case how come every big expert says CLIMATE CHANGE in association with every hot day in the summer?

The ultimate global warming will end up disrupt ocean current which will make N. America and Europe much colder than usual…

Uh huh. Bit more complex than that, but that’s beyond the scope of the discussion here. If I can’t get an answer to an emergency off button I won’t assume I’ll get anything more sophisticated answered.

Bill Howland – quote: “The climate is changing. Too bad Climate Deniers don’t realize the Globe is getting COLDER”
———————–
All the evidence I’ve seen is that warming is happening **ON AVERAGE** taken over the whole globe, and over a period of time. There’s a lot of attention about the very cold weather in Chicago at the moment – whilst the extremely hot temperatures in Australia are less mentioned……. You have to take averages…….

And – climate change models also predict a lot more energy in the atmosphere, so whilst the AVERAGE globally over the year may be a little higher, it predictsgreater swings (up and down) and more storms.

So whilst it may seem a little perverse to blame extreme cold, in one place, at one time of year on global warming, it does fit in with the general pattern of what may be expected. More extreme weather events – hot and cold.

So nice to see dents in toyota sales. The more, the better, we need at least one denier completely destroyed.

Just to add insult to the injury we went from a Toyota to a Nissan Leaf. We were hoping Toyota would bring the Rav4 ev to the U.K , would of loved one of those but never mind the leaf is brilliant.

I reluctantly switched to the Ioniq PHEV from an 08 Prius ; don’t regret the switch as the Ioniq is proving to be a great car. Better storage, ground clearance and looks IMO. Love the electric drive…my next vehicle definitely a BEV.

“Toyota has already made some plans to negate this. The Prius now comes standard with Toyota Safety Sense. In addition, all-wheel drive is available.”

I’ve often compared Toyota to BlackBerry, in the way that they took an early lead in hybrid tech with the Prius, but failed to follow that up by developing the tech.

The analogy here seems even closer, with Toyota’s very weak response to Tesla, perhaps even weaker than BlackBerry’s limp, less-than-half-hearted response to the first generation iPhone.

“Weak” is based upon short-term perspective, based on early-adopter expectations.

They clearly have long-term plans for mainstream offerings.

Yeah, look at all the Lexus BEVs (does nto exist) or the super Prius, the CT200h (oops cancelled) which was more in the Tesla price range… They do have several ‘h’ versions of their high end cars.

I’ve owned Toyotas since 1980, and still have an 05 Prius, but I’ll not buy Toyota again until they build a decent BEV PERIOD.

Toyota is right about one thing: current EVs are expensive.

They are wrong about eschewing EVs until they can “me too” like with Prime. They are missing out on building their corporate and supply chain experience.

Toyota should immediately deploy a good-looking Lexus EV in the $50k range. Yep, it will be a loss-leader. Just like the original Prius.

I mean a real EV. Not a NG>H2 or gas-guzzling PHEV fossil machine.

Build supply chain? No, that’s already in place. The hybrids already require motor, controller, and battery supply. So, you mean scale up.

They’ll be back. The early adopters have done their thing and Toyota will be ready for mass market BEV and PHEV adoption. Tesla will be but a Chinese shell company then.