UPDATE: Tesla “Takes Action”: 40 Cents/Minute Charge To Stop Supercharger Hogging

DEC 17 2016 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 131

Supercharger Station

Supercharger Station

Just last week, it was brought to Elon Musk’s attention (once again) that people are parking at Tesla Superchargers. Customers charge their cars and then leave them for hours, and in some cases, overnight. Special attention was directed to taxi companies that use Tesla vehicles. Musk quickly responded that Tesla will “take action”.

Well, the company sure didn’t waste any time. Now, every minute that you stay at the Supercharger, after completing charging, you will be charged 40 cents.

*UPDATE: Elon Musk issued this Tweet earlier this morning (December 17):

Musk's Tweet On Supercharger Fee

Musk’s Tweet On Supercharger Fee

However, it would be Ludicrous to expect that people would race away that quickly. So, as long as you depart within five minutes, there will be no charge. The mobile app will let customers know if they have been charged for idle time, and they will have to pay up at their next service center visit.

Tesla Superchargers

Tesla Superchargers


It is very important that Tesla owners understand that the spots are limited and that there should be an obvious expectation that they are used for charging, not parking. Unfortunately, this doesn’t solve the problem of other, non-Tesla drivers occupying the spots, but addresses the bulk of the issue.

This is all in addition to the text/alert system that Tesla already implemented as a first measure to solve the problem. Apparently, notifying someone every five minutes that their time is up, isn’t enough.

Read Tesla’s full press release below:

Supercharger Idle Fee

We envision a future where cars move themselves once fully charged, enhancing network efficiency and the customer experience even further. Until then, we ask that vehicles be moved from the Supercharger once fully charged. A customer would never leave a car parked by the pump at a gas station and the same thinking applies with Superchargers.

The Tesla app allows owners to remotely monitor their vehicle, alerting them when their charge is nearly complete and again once fully charged. For every additional minute a car remains connected to the Supercharger, it will incur a $0.40 idle fee. If the car is moved within 5 minutes, the fee is waived. To be clear, this change is purely about increasing customer happiness and we hope to never make any money from it.

We’re excited to increase availability during long distance travel and think this change will make the Supercharging experience far better for everyone.


How will I be billed?

You will be billed for any idle fees incurred at your next Service Center visit.

How do I know when I’ve incurred an idle fee?
The Tesla mobile app notifies you both when charging nears completion and again when fully done. Additional notifications will alert you when idle fees are incurred.

Which cars can incur idle fees?
All Model S and Model X cars can incur idle fees.

Does the idle fee charge anything while you’re still charging?
No, an idle fee is only applied once a charge session is complete. At this point, the car is no longer Supercharging and the spot should be made available for the next driver.

Do idle fees apply if there are Supercharger spots still available?
Yes, idle fees apply to any car occupying a Supercharger stall once the charge session is complete.

Is there an upper limit on the idle fee?
No, idle fees will continue to accrue if the car is not moved within five minutes after the charge session is complete.

Do taxes apply?
Supercharger idle fees include tax.

Do idle fees apply to Destination Charging locations?
No, idle fees only apply to Superchargers.

 

Idle Fees By Country

CountryFee
United StatesUSD $0.40
CanadaCAN $0.50
Austria0.35 €
Belgium€ 0.35
CroatiaHRK 2.70
Czech Republic9.50 CSK
Denmarkkr. 2.60
Finland€ 0.35
France0.35 €
Germany0.35 €
Italy€ 0.35
Luxembourg€ 0.35
Netherlands€ 0.35
Norwaykr. 3.25
Poland1.50 PLN
Slovakia0.35 €
Slovenia0.35 €
Spain0.35 €
Sweden3.20 kr
SwitzerlandCHF 0.40
UK£ 0.30
AustraliaAUS $0.55
ChinaCNY ¥ 2.60
Hong KongHK $3.10
JapanJPN ¥ 43.00

Categories: Charging, Tesla

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131 Comments on "UPDATE: Tesla “Takes Action”: 40 Cents/Minute Charge To Stop Supercharger Hogging"

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About time…

I think the Superchargers are a terrible design they should look more like gas stations the coard should be longer They should sit in the middle of four spots or at the bare minimum two spots and once your car is full it should blink a light that would let other people know that your car is full and unlock the cord that way someone else can plug it in
With a software upgrade tesla could easily let the cord unlock after the car is full

tell Tesla this – not us

Yup, it’s about time. $24.00 an hour ought to do the trick.

A necessary move.. great you have the 5 minutes.. timely to get this ironed about before More Teslas are on the Road

Personally, I think a 10 or 15 minute grace period would have been more appropriate. People may be in the middle of dinner or something, and also it seems like the problem is more with people stayingnthere for hours after charging.

But I agree that something needed to be done.

It’s rare to actually need a full charge. Stopping anytime in the last half hour will usually get you enough charge.

EXACTLY.

Rare for you, maybe. I live in an area where I need a 100% charge at least once a month when I have to drive from Centralia, WA to Ellensburg, WA.

Wait, where do you live that you need 100% charge (not 90%, not 95%… 100%) to make it from one charging station to another?

Isn’t such a drive incredibly impractical? Do you need a tow truck if there is any traffic?

Did you really not read his full short post to answer your own question? 🙂

If you absolutely have to have 100% at supercharger now, Tesla isn’t for you. In few years, the battery will degrade, and even 100% at supercharger won’t get you where you need to go. Time for you to switch to Volt.

Supercharging appears to better for the battery! https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/

batteries still degrade. It’s in the nature of their design.

Nah, Tesla will just add more Superchargers to the Seattle area. That Supercharger jump is 172 miles, which can be difficult in the depths of winter with a full load or high winds.

If Tesla doesn’t add, he will not make the trip when the battery has degraded. If that trip is essential, Tesla isn’t for him.

If Tesla adds more superchargers, he doesn’t need 100%. Either way, needing 100% is moot.

Dude, you really don’t know what you are talking about.
100% charge is necessary sometimes. Take it from someone who has done road trips in the winter and had to slow down to make it to the next station.

Having driven over 50,000 miles in 18 months in my Tesla Model S, I can tell you that there are times when you absolutely need 100%.

I’ll be driving from Las Vegas to San Diego tomorrow and I absolutely guarantee I will start at 100%. Somebody will say, “but there’s a Supercharger within 30 miles of Las Vegas why not just use that?”.

The answer is that it will be Sunday night coming from a holiday location before a major holiday. The Superchargers can be full or broken (I authored the story less than a month ago about the Barstow Supercharger).

100% gives me the option to skip a Supercharger. Or deviate off course. Or find an alternative, as few as there are in the desert between Las Vegas and Southern California.

Wind can be a significant issue, and thankfully we don’t have to put up with much seriously cold weather, but even 40 to 50°F weather can reduce the range markedly.

Yes, most trips would be to charge just enough to get me to the next Supercharger.

If the battery has degraded so that it won’t make it to next supercharger, what are you going to do? Get rid of your Tesla and get a large gas car of Tesla S size?

If you absolutely must have 100% of today, Tesla (or any EV) isn’t for you since they will all have less range in time. Plug-in hybrid might be better.

driving slower works too btw. Just because it’s a 75, doesn’t mean you have to drive at 75.

To the ignorant who have no clue, the longest range traveled model has traveled nearly a quarter-million miles already & only has a couple % capacity loss. Contrast that with the teeny crampt 4 seater volt that just keeps getting worse & worse gasoline mileage as the battery capacity fades … no thanks.

Agree. 10-15 minutes is better. The first 30 minutes should be 10 cents/minute, then 50 cents after that.

I think the five-minute grace period after your car is fully charged is ideal. 10 to 15 minutes would be too long a grace period. Most people on long trips only charge to 80% anyway. I think this is a good decision.

I agree 15/20 is a good amount off time I have been on many trips in my model s and had to walk 15 to 20 min for a place to eat so now half way threw I’ll have to turn around run back unplug then drive back to eat or walk 15/20 min to eat and back even if there’s no one waiting in line or I am the only car there

Oh for Pete’s sake. Poor you.
Why should the next driver wait another 20 minutes for you to get your car out of the spot? You would not like the wait so why should they?

I agree poor me lol I am not a a****** lol maybe some times
Anyway I have been to 22 superchargers and only one time was it full and that time I unplugged for the person because I knew shopping with wife that I was going to be there for ever when it becomes a pain is when I show up to a charger and no one is there so if no one is there why should I be in a hurry

I bet Summon will probably be expanded sometimes next year, when “snakebot” is ready to deploy at Superchargers. So when your car had finished charging, snakebot will retract and your autopilot car will park itself locally on the same lot, if a space is visible.

Until then, a lot of owners at Superchargers, who intend to charge to 80%, will start setting the charge to 100% to avoid the surprise of a surcharge, if their meal service or shopping should run slow.

No, this isn’t about your dinner. If you had a parking meter to feed, you’d make arrangements to go feed it. This is the same kind of thing. 5 minutes is more than enough.

Good point.

Right – we all drive 100 miles to dinner … so we need a supercharger … and as for people waiting 15 or 10 or (sniffle) 5 minutes to be forced to be considerate … because whaaah I had to pay 40¢. Geez, “it’s all about MEEEEE. I hope it goes up to $1/minute.

How about a “tow away” at the owner’s expense…That would get the goofballs idiots’ attention …

I just knew a per minute scheme of this type would be a good solution.

In Norway it works!!

https://www.chargedrive.com/pricing-the-fast-charging-of-electric-vehicles/

Long overdue. Good job Elon.

I’m not against this kind of thing. But it irks me that the billing is made possible because Tesla monopolizes service on their cars. Legally you’re supposed to be able to get independent service but it’s just not possible with Teslas (and they aren’t the only one in this situation).

But what’s the alternative? Tesla isn’t set up to do monthly billing, so far as I know. So Tesla would either have to create a new department just to handle that, or more likely hire an outside firm to handle that. But most of the charges are gonna be fiddly, so I seriously question the usefulness of monthly billing.

It may be that Tesla doesn’t really care that much if they get paid for this or not. The actual goal here, after all, is to discourage people from hogging Supercharger stalls, not to generate revenue for Tesla.

We’ll have to see how this plays out. But I doubt Tesla wants to damage their excellent reputation for customer service by, for example, sending a bill for only a few dollars to a collection agency.

OTA software update. Add customers credit card info send them a bill via their credit card.

How do they monopolize service? You are free to take your car to a third-party for repairs and maintenance. Those repairs or maintenance won’t void your warranty.

Third-party Repair Station won’t get you updates.

This is fair, I agree.

Billed at your next service.

That does not sound right.

Presumably this is only the case until a billing system is in place, which it’s not yet.

Now to stop the ones that just park there.

AGREED!!!…and that includes being ICE’d. I ran into an awful situation (too long to describe) in Kingsland, GA where a GROUP of people knew they were blocking a Tesla space and couldn’t care less. I have not run into any SCs here on the east coast that have a parking problem…lots of space available. And my SC count is now up to 19 different locations. That ICEing experience left a very bad taste in my mouth and THAT is the problem I see that needs fixing.

The spots are well marked and obvious. Next time call Tesla, they could get them towed.

I thought it wasn’t necessary to service at all, it was optional, so unless you visit a service centre for a warranty claim you will never have to pay?

What is considered “charged”, 100% or the level you set before you plugged in?

Logically, we can presume that Tesla will begin billing from 5 minutes after a car stops charging, which would be when it reaches the level of charge which the driver set, or when the BMS (Battery Management System) reports the battery pack is fully charged and tells the charger to stop charging.

I would imagine when the juice is no longer flowing would be the starting point of the per minute billing.

Cars that block chargers should be towed at owner expense. Place signage to that effect so everything is legal.

Absolutely.

I write on the c blockers windows with a large green pen.

Wow, that’s pretty strict! Tesla only gives you 5 minutes to move the car, and if you don’t, then then it’s a $2 fee plus 40¢ for each additional minute.

I expected Tesla to give a lot more time to move the car before they started charging. Clearly Tesla is serious about making sure Superchargers are not getting clogged up for no good reason!

BTW — There was one person, in comments on the last article on this, suggested a $24 per hour fee for parking after charging. That person? SparkEV.

Congratulations, Sparky! Take a bow. Your powers of prognostication appear formidable. 🙂

Yes, congratulations Spark EV!! The fact is he and myself and only one or two more commenters had sensible things to say in the comments in that article.

Kudos to Spark EV! Talk about spot on!

Btw, Pu-Pu, where does it say about a $2 fee? I’m only seeing the 40 cents per minute fee.

The fee is $0.40/minute.
You have 5 minutes to move your car without having to pay any fee.
If you move the car after 5 minutes and 1 second, your fee is $0.40 x5 = $2.00.

As Spider-Dan explained, I just did the math to figure out what the actual charge would be.

Yup, I see now. Steven Loveday commented below too.

The only thing I would add is that you cannot use the charger again until the fine is paid. It all works off your Vin number

Station Banning would take care of the chronic abusers who continue to ignore the fees and leave their vehicles parked in SC stalls, plugged in or otherwise.

It is interesting to note that there does not seem to be a time limit on paying said fees, and what repercussions might occur, should fees continue to be ignored.

It’s probably only a small percentage of people that do this, but then, like a virus it spreads. Well that guy did it why can’t I? Well, hopefully because you are not a jerk like he is.

People are so insular and self-focused that they just don’t care about others. Common courtesy is not all that common anymore.

Thanks, but it’s a case of million monkeys on typewriter for million years to produce something like Shakespeare. I advocated for $0.40/min even when charging to encourage unplugging sooner (ie, at 80%) and no grace period. What Tesla’s done is very generous.

Looking over the comments, I think there may be complaints with Tesla’s policy. Some may claim they made it within 5 minutes (when they didn’t) and bitch about getting billed. Such complaint won’t happen if billed at the moment the electrons started flowing like I proposed.

Entitlement attitude when given “free” is astounding. Even when Tesla gives generous 5 minutes more, people still complain.

Yes, but they have to be cartoon monkeys, and it’s infinite monkeys for infinty, which would be quite a mess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv0j2MjZs0A

Infinity would produce exact Shakespeare, but I produced “something like” Shakespeare. Infinity doesn’t really work well, dare I say, Newton was wrong? 😉

Looks like problem solved.
Simple solution to part of the problem. Now for the rest of the scafflaws, who park blocking access to the SuperChargers! What is the remedy for those space hoarders?

Yes, simple solution, as I said in the last article here about this issue.

Solving the problem of ICE cars parking in and blocking a fast charger is not an easy fix tho. Parking regulations are passed by local authorities, and not easily passed either.

IMO the best solution is to install Superchargers and fast chargers in locations that don’t get heavy parking. If at all possible, this should be seriously looked at. A great example of this is the two Superchargers installed at service plazas on the New Jersey Turnpike. They are located at the furtherest out part of the parking lot. Far more valuable to walk a minute or two to the restrooms etc than have 30 seconds to the building but risk the Supercharger being blocked by other cars.

I disagree, any charging network needs to be in the right place not the best place from a parking perspective. What happens if you park in a petrol station? Surely that’s not legal, what happens if you leave your car for 24hrs in front of a petrol pump? Surly the law can’t differentiate between fuelling types. Just define the bay as a fuelling station and use what ever law is in place there to stop random people parking.

Hmm.. that’s an interesting idea, but… is there actually a law about not parking at a gas station? I think not.

Not parking at a gas station in front of a gas pump is (I would guess) a well known social no no. EV charging bays won’t have that privilege for quite some time. In fact, I wonder if it might only happen when fast chargers are situated and laid out similarly to what a gas station is, with an island containing two fast chargers. I’ve seen some EVgo locations like that.

I would guess that gas stations are private property and that the owner has the right to remove your car if they want, bounded only by the obvious business disadvantage of irking customers.

If Tesla owns, or is delegated rights by the owner, the supercharger area, including enough surrounding area to prevent blocking I would guess they can tow any cars they deem to be a problem.

Once you surpass the first 5 minutes, then instead of the charge being waived, you get charged the initial $2.00 (40 cents x 5 minutes), and the 40 cents a minute after that.

Ah… Yes. Thanks for that Steven.

Friday afternoon info dump?

Thumbs down. Doesn’t seem well thought out. The problem is charging is already an unpleasant task and this makes it more unpleasant. The gas station reference makes clear why. It only takes minutes to charge at a gas pump, so waiting until finished is not a big deal. Charging takes a lot longer. You can wait at the car, which is unpleasant, or you can find something else to do. For example, you might want to have lunch. But with this policy having lunch is likely to be anxiety provoking or a PITA as you have to leave before you’ve finished eating to make sure you get to your car in time. And what if the place you’ve chosen to eat is ten minutes away?

Should have a longer grace period. Like half an hour. That shouldn’t effect things that much if in fact the problem is caused by taxi companies parking all day.

It’s also unreasonable to apply these rules to all supercharging stations, including those which are never crowded.

Add a half hour for every customer, and logistically, that does not optimize SC access– which was the entire point of this decision. In fact, stating you can have up to a half hour to sit there, moves the line in the sand and would further slow access to chargers. 😛

Just plan accordingly…

I think Don has a point. I generally find empty SC stations, and now can’t go overtime with 5 stalls free? People need something to do, especially if others are also inconvenienced by cutting lunch short. Doze off, get burned.

The point is the charging, not your eating. Other people might need to charge. If you had to pay a meter, you’d pay a meter or get a ticket.

I’ve never not been there at the moment my car finished charging. It’s just not that hard. And I’ve definitely waited on inconsiderate people who just don’t bother to come back to their cars. The point is the charging, not whatever else.

So take the example of the Tridelphia, WV SC on I-70. It is up a steep hill in the parking lot of a hotel that provides restrooms but nothing else. The nearest place to eat is at least a 10 minute walk. My last time through there it took about an hour to walk down, eat and walk back.

5 minutes does not seem to me to be a reasonable grace period.

Secondly, few superchargers have this problem since they are not located near high population density areas. It seems to me that this fee should be targeted to those superchargers that have the problem.

Why do people keep saying it’s only five minutes? It’s however long it takes to charge your car, plus five minutes, which can be over an hour. You get plenty of notifications, First when you plug in and it gives you an estimated completion time, and then as you approach your charge limit. It can’t be that hard to plan around, and is it really the end of the world if you get dinged with a small fee once in a while for potentially hundreds of miles of free power?

Sounds like a nice firm stand in order to show they are serious. If things turn around immediately, and there is no longer a problem, Tesla can quietly increase the 5 minutes to whatever, since people will have changed there rude behavior.

And since the fee hasn’t actually been collected, they can always choose to waive incidental fees when drivers show up for service and it is clear that they were not serial offenders. The same way Discover Card waives first time late fees as long as you don’t have recent history of missed payments.

I still thought my idea of sucking the charge back into the charger was pretty funny though…

“I still thought my idea of sucking the charge back into the charger was pretty funny though…”

I got a chuckle out of it, so thanks! And your suggestion was less draconian than my own, which involved a helicopter and a car crusher… 😉

I think it’s too bad that there were so many posts in that last comment thread calling for only serious discussion. That was rather pointless, since without the details of what Tesla planned, all we could do is speculate wildly and make jokes.

Some people need to chill out. There are very few subjects that nobody should joke about, and this certainly ain’t one of ’em!

I think I was the only one calling for some sense, so I’ll comment here. I don’t mind jokes, since they are seen as that, but what we had was commenters suggesting impractical solutions, maybe even not knowingly so, that weren’t productive to the discussion of what would be a good solution.

If Tesla wishes to avoid trivial circumvention of the fee by unplugging the car, they must bill by tracking logs and/or GPS. That’s way creepy.

You would have to be a special kind of “person” to go back to the supercharger to ONLY unplug and not move your car while others are waiting to charge.

To save hundreds of dollars in fines while parking overnight, many would–especially commercial taxi services.

Sad, but there may be more ‘special’ charging people then one would hope.

After the car is unplugged it can be towed away by any towing company…

Disable the freaking car remotely 🙂

CSK… someone did not notice Czechoslovakia split more than 20 years ago…

And someone else did not notice that the currency of the Czech Republic is the Czech koruna, abbreviated CSK.

Looks like I made the same mistake Tesla did; the Czech koruna is abbreviated CZK, not CSK.

I’ll take my whuppin.

Sounds good to me!

They are charging spots, not parking spots.

Much less expensive than the ultimate end of the progressive scale I suggested in previous story, but simpler: one set amount per minute and no progressively steeper billing rate!

I think I suggested a 15 minute grace, then a lower fee for the next 15 minutes, followed by an increased fee for the next 15 minutes, another fee increase for the next 15 minutes, then reaching the very punitive fee of $5.00 a minute, after 1 hour after charge completion!

I think the figures were something like first 15 = $0.00; next 15 = $0.12/min; then next 15 min @ $0.50/min; then next 15 min @ $2.00/min; and at 1 hour pat charging stopping, the billing would be at $5.00/min.

With my fees sugested above, 30 minutes cost $1.80, 45 minutes cost $9.30, & at 1 hour, the cost has risen to $39.30! Additional hours (If following my pricing plan) would be costing $300.00 each Hr! So, good thing Elon is only charging $24.00 per hour, and did not copy my plan!!

I agree completely but it should be $10/hr

Ok, Tesla now definitely made it that I don’t even want to use a Tesla (as if it wouldn’t be enough, that they potentially cause high costs to people renting a Tesla, because payments for vehicle energy refilling billed by the car rental are usually extremely high compared with when you do that by your own at the same charger/gas station). I understand that like at a gas station the lots are limited, but obviously: If you don’t have a smartphone (e.g. just a dumb phone) or a smartphone with a “wrong” OS or you aren’t the owner (e.g. family member or you rented that car) or you can’t/will have problems/don’t want to use the app because high roaming costs or incompatible standards/bad Wifi at that place, to few space left on your mass-storage for the app or simply distrust closed-source software, you won’t be noticed. And that together with such a short timeout and 21EUR/h (just to compare it with costs of normal parking open for public – where you very often can use the parking lot for 2-2.5 days for that price). Or saying it in an other way: High cost riskes if you rent a Tesla because… Read more »

Right, you want to park your car at the gas pump while you eat lunch and go shopping. Station owners have no right to tow your car! You are putting your foot down and only riding camels from now on! Good for you! You tell em bro!

Why don’t you read postings before answering them?! 🙁

– Which part of “I understand that like at a gas station the lots are limited” didn’t you understand?
– At a gas station the “recharging” process is quick enough that you usually don’t leave your car more than a few meters. But even at Superchargers that process can take >1h. Then you want to use that much time in an other way – which usually means you go to a restaurant etc. which is very often near to that Superchargers. Due to that you could be in a cue inside that restaurant, on the toilet etc. plus have to walk some 100m to reach your vehicle etc. Then 5min are very often too short, especially if you don’t get a notification for the reasons I mentioned.

notting

It would seem a Tesla is perhaps not the right car for you. From a personal standpoint, it also seems you have listed every single worst case scenario imaginable. Seek help my friend.

Renting a car gets more and more usual, especially due to CarSharing. And for business travel with a car, I like always have to rent a car – if I’m using my private car, it’s some sort of emergency like a few ours before my business travel should start, the railways guys started a strike.
Tesla obviously ignores that.

notting

You forgot to add, “and you’re too ignorant to read your analog watch”. Those are the kind of people that drive off with the gas hose still attached at the Chevron station.

I agree with the sentiment that the 5 minute grace period is too strict. Adds unnecessary stress to the charging experience, after all the goal is to curb outright hogging as in parking for hours after charging is complete, not to chase people away almost the minute they’re done. That’s just not justifiable as long as charging still takes too long to expect people to attend their vehicles all the time.

Very well stated,Chris.
Add my vote to the 15 minute grace period until a full charge is reduced to 15 minutes or less.

Except, this is only going to get worse as time goes on since the numbers are multiples when the 3 arrives. As the person waiting for the spot to charge, giving you 15 minutes isn’t going to seem reasonable. In fact, 5 minutes is going to be pretty annoying. If something truly unexpected comes up, $0.40 a minute is fairly reasonable and likely can be waved for first time offenders.

You’re assuming everyone will wait the full 15 minute grace period. Does everyone who uses parking meters return right when the meter runs out or a little before?

15 minutes would provide less anxiety while essentially having the same outcome.

Less than 24 hours later Elon has announced via Twitter a modification to the protocol.

Fees now only charged if station is busy.

Elon is making a big mistake, IMO. With the prevalence of ICEing and potentially people parking without plugging in or even parking in such a way to block multiple chargers so they can charge/park in peace without having to worry about getting penalized,it’s too difficult for Tesla to know when a station is available or not. Plus, it’s inevitable that someone will go to sleep with their Tesla plugged in with no other cars there, and then a concert or other event will end and the SC will fill up and the guy will wake up with 200 dollar fee and become a customer relations nightmare. Better to keep it simple and unilateral so there’s no question.

It seems you haven’t waited for other people who are done charging. When you’re out and about, even 5 minutes of useless waiting is way too long and infuriating. Considering Tesla charge taper, even that 5 minutes after 100% is more like 20 minutes (or more) compared to no-taper charging. Tesla is being generous with 5 minutes after 100%, too generous IMO.

Whoa! I advocated for $0.40/min fee, and Tesla made it happen for post 100% “parking” fee.

http://insideevs.com/elon-musk-tesla-to-take-action-on-long-term-supercharger-spot-hogging/#comment-1114794

It’s actually sensible number. It’s like charging at home (in San Diego) but without any electrons actually flowing. Now I wonder if they’ll use the same fee for pay-to-charge starting next year. It’s simple no-fuss fee that everyone can understand.

Are you a Tesla insider? 😉

Heh, I wish (or not considering their schedule). My proposal was for flat fee even for charging, but Tesla only charge for post 100%, so it’s not exactly the same.

Well done SparkEV. Your assessment of the problem and its logical, easy to understand solution of a per minute fee that’s feasible to implement was right on, and is what Tesla has actually done now.

I see lots of comments that 5 minute grace period is too short. As I see it, even 5 minutes is too long. Tesla tapers charge even starting at 50%. In effect, charging beyond beyond 80% (which is roughly 50 kW for some Tesla) is a form of Supercharger abuse that makes others wait for your slow-ass charging.

Frankly, Tesla should’ve made $0.40/min start at 5 minutes prior to 100%. It would be an incentive to not constantly charge their car to 100%, form of EV abuse.

If you need 100% at supercharger constantly, you shouldn’t be driving EV. It’s not only bad for other people waiting, but also bad for the battery. Keep it around 80% most times, and 90% if you must go further. If it needs more than 90%, you should take the Prius eco or Ioniq. Or hound Tesla to put more superchargers.

If they started charging a fee before the car stopped charging, they would be in violation of their free charging promises.

Getting rid of free charging is what I meant. Free charging SUCKS!

The Tesla charging “taper” can begin below 20%.

Not a good indicator.

I read some new bigger battery Tesla are better, so I gave the benefit of doubt.

I personally like a tiered approach.

You want to disincentivize the truly egregious behavior without alienating your customer who rarely causes problems.

But you need the fine to be hefty given the average income of a Tesla owner

I can see people accidentally going over by 5-10 minutes. Even 30.
But more than that? You’re an abuser or criminally stupid and thus should have your license revoked

$24/hr isn’t enough

I’d do
10 minutes free
$4 plus $0.40/min the next 20 minutes
$1/min the next 30 minutes
$2/min the next 30 min
$10/min the next 60 min
$100/min after that

$60/hr will get people moving
$600/hr will get everybody out.

I know Tesla won’t do that due to bad publicity

You can see the twisted headline “Tesla charging $600/hr to charge”

I hate stupid people

Talk about stupid people

$600/hr will get people moving
$6000/hr will get everybody out

Math is hard

Sigh.
It doesn’t need ot be that complicated.
If they’d do what you suggest, it would eb virtually impossible for someone to gauge in a simple manner what the fine’s going to be for a given delay. E.g., I went to a restaurant for lunch while charging, but service was slower than anticipated. I get the warning that charigng will end soon when I’v finished the main course. I want to figure out how much it’ll cost me to have desert. Under a linear fine, it’s simple: Say it’s 15 extra min at the restaurant, so 10min after the grace period or $4 extra. Under a scheme as complicated as yours, it’s impossible to figure out, and you can bet every person fined will ask for an explanation of the rules wasting Tesla’s time.

A+!! it’s got to be SIMPLE.

And now as an amendment to the fees, Elon has announced on Twitter less than 24 hours later that fees will only apply when at a Supercharger that’s busy.

This makes sense for Superchargers that are crowded only. I was at the port orange supercharger and ended up walking 10 minutes away for breakfast because nothing was open in the immediate mall area on Sunday morning. There were 6 open stalls. My car was fully charged by the time breakfast arrived. I would hate to go back to move my car just to avoid a fee when plenty of chargers are open.

It depends on what the purpose of this effort is

Is it to change the actions of abusers only (doubtful)

Or Is it to change everybody’s behavior and expectations prior to the model 3 with 500,000 more cars on the road (more likely). Especially since this will reduce Supercharger use reducing Teslas cost

The goal is to get people to think about how they use Superchargers

Yes, the initial marketing was “just plug it in and go get breakfast for an hour”

That model is starting to fail in some areas. It WILL fail almost everywhere with Model 3, which will have a lower socioeconomic level of car buyer and 10x more users

So we need to change expectations to ” Charge while you get a cup of coffee and pee and stretch your legs”

That said, I’d be fine if they changed it to a situation where you get up to 1 hour free so long as only 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the stalls are used or less, and the app dinging you to say “too many stalls are in use. You have 5 minutes to return to your car”

Most of my SparkEV DCFC are about 10 minutes, enough to get to my destination. Long trips (over 100 miles) are bit under 20 minutes to get to 80%. That’s enough time to get coffee, walk the dogs, buy donuts, etc. It’s definitely not enough for hour long meal.

If Tesla 3 can charge like SparkEV (no taper to 80%, 2.5C or more), they will have similar experience. In effect, you won’t have enough time for that hour long meal. People who drive SparkEV are truly living the future.

Ah, so THAT’S how you knew Tesla’s plan. You’re from the future!

Can you tell me if next season of Westworld is as good as Season 1?

Ask me something more relevant, like tomorrow’s stock prices. I’m going to predict that tomorrow’s prices will be exactly the same as today’s prices (tomorrow being Sunday). 🙂

Are there any Superchargers at airports?

I can’t answer that, but I think the ideal for airports is lots of parking spaces with low level charging just 120vac. That way your car will be fully charged when you come back from your trip and you won’t have to come back then go immediately to the supercharger.

Airports are pretty much the least-sensible place to locate a supercharger. Think of the scenarios:
1) You’re flying out of that airport, so will be returning at least 7-8 hours later, possibly days or weeks.
===> L1 charging is pretty much sufficient, in very few cases L2 might be justified.

2) You’re picking up someone at that airport. That pretty much means that you’re local, and not immediately setting out on a long distance car trip directly from the airport (otherwise the person you’re picking up would be using a different airport).

What about older cars, which are already out of warranty and owners never go the Tesla service center? How will Tesla collect the money from them?

This is likely a temporary setup until they have the full billing stuff in their owner portal. Once they are charging for Supercharging > 400 kWh, the payment system would have to be in place.

Further, this is really just to try to discourage… they really don’t want to have to charge anyone this fee.

1) All revenue should be targeted to giving chargers snakes or wireless charging (including free upgrades to existing vehicles to wireless charging as revenue allows)
2) Autopilot needs to be upgraded to add autocharging…
(Parks car, waits for charging, drives itselve to open charging slot, moves car to parking spot when done) Parking rate could be demand based (I.e. Rate is setup to maximize Tesla revenue for parking spots) High traffic locations cost more, low traffic locations cost less.

Re the argument whether 5min grace period is sufficient or not…
it’s obviously situation-dependent, but there’s a pretty simple fix.
I assume there’s currently a way of telling the car how much to charge.

“The Tesla mobile app notifies you both when charging nears completion”
The driver should be able to define what that means in practice, both in the default case and override it for that charging session, as follows:
“Notify me N minutes before the car reaches Charge Level L” where L can be defined as % SoC, or absolute kWh in the battery, or enough charge to drive M miles at the recent Wh/mi efficiency the car’s been getting.
This doesn’t have to be accurate to the second, to a couple of minutes would be fine, and is easily doable by having the app communicate with Tesla’s charger server every few minutes to update.
That way, the driver can determine based on his/her needs how much advance notice they’ll get, and fit it to their habits, or the specific circumstance.

Parked Teslas at SuCs after supercharging is only half the problem. What about all those ignorant ICE drivers?

http://imgur.com/gallery/HjSB6

Great if late action from Tesla. 40 cents per minute is a pretty forgiving fee for this sort of egotistical behaviour. Hopefully it’ll be enough to effectively alleviate the problem. I don’t see why there should be any grace period at all, and frankly if I was waiting to charge and some idiot doesn’t show up until 15 minutes after his charge was complete I’m sure I’d think a six bucks “fine” for his anti-social behaviour insufficient. People have to be a little bit considerate of others. It’s not their private charger, and their desire to pick up the car an hour later has to be balanced against other people’s need to charge. Those who say there should be a 30 minute grace period don’t seem to realise how severe the impact would be on the capacity of a station if people idle. Even charging above 80% capacity seriously reduces the number of kWh per hour that the station can serve. Even before you plug in you have some idea how long it’ll take to charge. Once it’s started you have a good estimate. You can remotely monitor it all the way, and you get notifications when it’s soon complete… Read more »