Tesla Superchargers Versus ChargePoint Network

APR 23 2015 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 63

Lots Of Gas Saved

Lots Of Gas Saved

Some shocking numbers…

Update: To date, Tesla’s global network of Superchargers have delivered nearly 30 GWh of energy.  Tesla adds that drivers of the automaker’s EVs (both with public, private and residential charging) have saved 42.million gallons of gas while traveling some 931 million miles.  The gallons of gas saved is not specific to just Supercharging.

Lots Of Miles

Lots Of Miles

When Tesla releases these figures, we’re often asked how these stats compares to other EVs or charging station providers.  This time, we’ve got some ChargePoint figures for comparison:

ChargePoint Stats

ChargePoint Stats

Of course we have to note that the Tesla charging infrastructure is basically a prepaid/”free” after-the-sale transaction – which incentivizes convenience charging by its owners, while dispensing charges at many multiples the kW rate of the ChargePoint network.

To date, the ChargePoint network has delivered just under twice the amount of total GWh hours as Tesla’s Supercharging infrastructure.

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63 Comments on "Tesla Superchargers Versus ChargePoint Network"

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In addition to the points you list above, it is clear to me that Tesla is investing in EV infrastructure and thinking long term, while Chargepoint is gouging others and trying to collect as much money as possible short term.

Don’t be so hard on ChargePoint. They only have one business model, charge for electricity. Tesla is definitely covering it’s charging costs with its premium pricing. For their EV pioneering, they are both benefiting us all.

Agreed. ChargePoint isn’t nearly as abusive as others like evGO.

And some ChargePoint stations are free. All the ones in Beverly Hills are free. The city probably pays for the chargers.

Really we have Chargepoint in our apartment building and they chage $0.45 per Kw/h in Washington DC., the average price per Kw/h $0.11 cents. We are 7 owners with EVs in the building and no one use it, the charger is there just collecting dust.

Dominion Power has charging stations at their headquarters building in Virginia, but these are also expensive so I hear they are not used.
I use my company’s free solar-powered charging stations. I am the only EV owner at the company of ~2,500 at this location who uses their 8 charging stations.

Worst I’ve ever seen is the ChargePoint EVSE at Purchase College, SUNY. It was $3.99 / hour. I’m not kidding. It was so ridiculous and egregious, I wrote to the facilities person at the college to explain how stupid it was.

That’s *cheap*! Here in the UK, the typical cost for a 20kWh (80%-ish) charge using a ‘pay for’ rapid charger (50kW) is £5 ($7.50)!

I once talked to Chargepoint for installing a charger at my workplace. Chargepoint doesn’t charge for power, it’s who install them that decide how much to charge. Sometimes it’s free. Some charge nominal fees to avoid misuse or overuse. And if they ask Chargepoint to manage the payment, reservation etc., then chargepoint gets a 10% cut.

But my workplace doesn’t charge any money, and decided to install much cheaper chargers from some other places. Chargepoint stations are expensive compared to the clipper creek and other cheaper options for free charging.

“Don’t be so hard on ChargePoint. They only have one business model, charge for electricity.”

So True, but they could be fair about it. Instead of charging owners a flat monthly rate to be in the ChargePoint network, they could charge a % of the charging business a charger does. If they had half a brain they would realize that business model would attract more installs $$.

NPNS! SBF!
Volt#671

I think you are confusing ChargePoint, who manufactures EVSE…with CarCharging Group who sets pretty high fees on many different stations (including ChargePoint)

Station owners always set the fees (if any) with ChargePoint equipment

I think Tesla’s numbers are deceiving (as usual).
If Chargepoint delivered even 5kwh per charge, then 9 mil charges * 5 kwh = 45 GWH. So, just Chargepoint network alone is ahead of Tesla in total power delivered.

Unfortunately, one has to double check every number from Tesla.

Good point. I wonder what is the average energy delivered per charge on ChargePoint? I have used the network on occassion, but on average I take less than 5kWh. Of course I have an older Leaf with a 3.3kW charger, so I’d have to be there for 1.5 hours to get 5kWh. I normally use the network to “opportunity charge” for an hour here, an hour there. I’m positive they count each visit as a charge session.

Brian, chargepoint’s stats showed 9 million charges and 196 million miles driven.

Going by the leaf’s efficiency of ~4 miles / kwh, yields 49 GWh, which would be a little over 5kwh per charge session.

Let’s do the #s more carefully and without having a horse in the race either way (talking to you @See-through 🙂 )

Tesla ~30GWh, multiply by 3 and down scale ‘G’ to ‘M’ to get ~90 Mega-miles.

This is indeed about half of what ChargePoint reports mile-wise. They are off by an entire 10x factor.

But let’s check ChargePoint numbers:

~200M miles divided by ~3.5 and up ‘M’ to ‘G’ = ~60GWh juice.

Yes, overall it seems Chargepoint ~ 2x Tesla, Tesla has mis-advertised and the author needs to make a correction to the post.

I cannot believe I’m saying this, but for once, See-through is right!

::facepalm::

Thank you for pointing out the obvious to me. I got so wrapped up in the comments that I didn’t even notice that in the article.

I think the post author took the one apples-to-apples comparison available from the two reports:

gallons of gas saved. Tesla 42.4M, Chargepoint 8.2M.

Since both companies want to present their output in a positive light, it’s unlikely that most of this 5x gap is due to different accounting methods.

Rather, it’s the QC vs. L2 paradigm. Nearly all Chargepoint chargers are L2, following the mistaken 2010-era notion that this is what first-gen EV drivers would need most.

In a word: Not.

Had Chargepoint gone, like Tesla, after establishing QC infrastructure along highways between high-EV-adoption-rate cities, it’d also be delivering MWh’s by the bundle right now. In fact more, b/c Leafs, Soul EVs, i3’s, etc., are collectively more numerous, have shorter ranges and need to stop more often. Model S’s would also occasionally stop there.

Instead, Chargepoint has those “tourist trap” L2s scattered everywhere mostly gathering dust.

That’s again bogus. Super chargers saved 3 million gallons of gas, not 42.4. See my math below.
It seems, in Tesla’s numbers, every number except the 29.5GWH supercharger are for TOTAL miles, not supercharged miles.
Whereas, for Chargepoint, it’s all about the miles/co2 etc. from Chargepoint delivered miles, as they have no way to knwo total miles driven by EVs.

sad to say it, but See Through seems to be right. 30gwh at 3.1 miles/kwh (avg model S highway efficiency) = 93 million miles, which saves 4.2 million gallons of gas.

An alternative explanation is that it was supposed to be 300gwh! But considering that we pay for electricity by the kwh, I’d bet the mistake is in the other direction.

Someone @ Tesla marketing made a math error.

I’m always right. It’s the perception of the world that is sometimes wrong 🙂

The Tesla chart is a little confusing because it is mixing separate metrics on the same graphic – Supercharging and total ‘gas’ saved.

We will add a note in there to make it more clear…and mention that as of today ChargePoint has delivered more total GWh by about a factor of 2.

Thank you, Jay!
There is still a big discrepancy in the CO2 emissions figure between the two.
ChargePoint: 196M miles = 60M lbs of CO2 => less than 1/3 lbs of CO2 per mile
Tesla: 931 M total miles = 1 B lbs of CO2 => more than 1 lb of CO2 per mile.

But in this case, Tesla’s 1 lb CO2 per mile is closer to what I see in my Onstar monthly updates. Seems CP is being pessimistic here.

The 5 kWh per ChargePoint session is not that far off … it’s has between 5-6 kWh per session. Up till recentl the was a total session count which was ~180,000,000 session in Feb for the 9 M miles … just over 20 miles of charge per session.

Tesla delivers over 25 kWh per session on average). In future delivering more kWh with be more a factor of sessions per day (per location) vs. the number of charging points publically available.

The key many are missing is both Tesla and ChargePoint numbers are running kWh energy measurements from when each network went live (ie: day #1). Remember Tesla SC’s didn’t go live till 2013, while ChargePoint dates back to ~2009 (will need to research for exact date … but safe to say CP has been online for twice as lone)

The more interesting comparison would be for the last 6 months … and 12 months back. Any InsideEV authors reading … this would be something your readers want to know. 😉

The only one who is attempting to deceives with here with your incessant anti-Tesla FUD is the little troll See Through.
Tesla’s numbers represent how many total miles that their cars have travelled without gas AND how many GWHs their awesome Superchargers have provided along with the C02 they have offset in total.

“See Through” is spreading fact-free Tesla-bashing FUD (as usual).

The problem here is not Tesla misrepresenting the numbers. The problem is the InsideEV’s author or editor misinterpreting what the Tesla infographic represents, and comparing that infographic to the ChargePoint infographic as though it was an apples-to-apples comparison.

Note the ChargePoint infographic has the heading of “The Impact of ChargePoint Drivers”, whereas the Tesla infographic has no heading at all. Tesla’s infographic isn’t just about its SuperCharger network; that’s just one data point -on- the infographic.

jmollard, Aaron, Acevolt, I responded below.

Yep.

Our office has ~12 Chargepoint EVSEs for ~40 cars.

I’m sure Chargepoint counts every kWh these stations dish out in their numbers. Somewhat misleading.

ggpa said: “Chargepoint is gouging others and trying to collect as much money as possible short term”

This statement is incorrect, and seems to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of ChargePoint’s business model.

ChargePoint only manufactures the equipment (the stations) and runs the ChargePoint network (which controls and monitors them). ChargePoint does not sell the electricity dispensed by the stations, nor do they set the charging session prices.

The owners of the properties where ChargePoint stations are installed supply the electricity, and set the charging session prices, and the situations can vary widely. The owners are often municipalities (like a city or county) or private businesses (like a store or parking garage). Some owners operate the stations for free, others set reasonable prices, and still other set unreasonable prices.

But, again, ChargePoint is no more involved in what you pay to charge your EV than your toilet manufacturer is involved in how much you pay for water.

so far, saving around two days of diving for the u.s in gas and pollution ,363 days to go!
ya this is real good.

Heading to Denver, Colorado from Sacramento on Monday in the Model S Tesla using only the Tesla Supercharger system for power support. Returning via Southern Utah and Bakersfield then back up I-5 again all on the FREE Supercharger network.

It’s not free. You paid for it when you bought your car. I think you mean it’s unlimited use–or as close as you can get with a single car, which is probably once per day.

You can no longer buy a Tesla without SuperCharger access, so it is effectively free. Saying that it isn’t free is like saying that warranty repairs on your car aren’t free. Technically, they aren’t, because the automaker has to charge enough for the car to cover warranty expenses, but in practice they are. Semantics.

If you want to say “free”, and others choose the more honest “prepaid”, in a way I guess you’re both right. This is just another example of the old adage – there is no such thing as a free lunch.

It also depends on how much you use it. Eventually it becomes free if you use it, the sc network, more than the initial extra cost added to each vehicle to ameliorate the cost of the sc network to the company.

Lim[x->Inf]($2000/x) = $0. True. However, no Tesla will ever drive infinite miles, therefore it will never “become free”.

The math seems wrong? Tesla is good at deceiving people. Let’s round it to 30 GWH, and assume 3 miles/kwh.

30 GWH = 30 million kwh
=> 30 * 3 million miles driven
Even if we take avg of 20 mpg again, Tesla’s pessimistic math), that equal 4.5 million gallons of gas, not 42.4 million gallons.

Put another way, 1 kwh = 3 miles = 1/10 of a gallon with 30 mpg
So, 30 GWH = 3 million gallons of gas.

And the real truth is, Prius gets 50 mpg.
And of course, the CO2 emissions at the coal plants and other power plants are entioned nowhere.

And the 931M miles looks like total miles driven by Teslas, not just supercharged miles?

I think you just answered your own question. Only the 30GWh figure specifically mentions the superchargers. If instead you take the other two numbers to include ALL miles traveled by Teslas, it suddenly makes more sense.

931 Million miles / 20 MPG = 46.6 million gallons of gas.

Sorry, I guess there are more than two other numbers, but you get my point.

The infographic is a bit confusing from Tesla, especially in relation to the ChargePoint one.

We put an update in the article to better clarify the info.

Right, neither the miles nor the gallons mention the superchargers (and for the miles specifically, it seems to be a separate tweet that has nothing to do with superchargers). So they include home charging too.

For Tesla during the 1GWh milestone for superchargers they calculated that as 3.7 million miles, so 30GWh would be 111 million miles.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/supercharging-milestone

As for the Chargepoint network, they do mention 196 million miles, which at the same 3.7 miles per kWh conversion factor would be 53GWh.

Well See Through, you sound more and more like the anti-EV zombies when you say that Tesla’s doesn’t count the emissions from coal power plants. Really?

And I see your schilling for Coyota when you falsely claim that the Prius gets 50mpg.

So this explains why you hate Tesla so much, you probably work for Coyota. Makes sense since you are also known to defend their fuel cell efforts.

What a troll!

I have an ear to ear Electric Fueled Vehicle Grin bout now!

Yup, swarms of #antiEVZombies that pollute CyberSpace! Are you saying that ‘see through’ is our own pet #antiEVZombie ?

lol!

(Yes, Twitter Hash Tags go to historic Twitter pages and time lines)

Best-

Thomas J. Thias

517-749-0532

Publisher:

Twitter.com/AmazingChevVolt

Thomas J. Thias asked:

“Are you saying that ‘see through’ is our own pet #antiEVZombie ?”

No, it’s a troll, not a zombie. And it’s not just ours; it regularly posts comments to Tesla-related articles at Seeking Alpha also. Quite possibly elsewhere, too.

Interesting suggestion, that its motive may be to promote “Coyota” (Toyota ?), rather than to promote a TSLA short-seller position. But maybe it’s both!

Get Real said: “And I see your [sic] schilling for Coyota when you falsely claim that the Prius gets 50mpg.”

What mpg does the Prius really get?

The EPA rates the 2015 Prius at 50 MPG combined, 51 MPG city, 48 MPG highway.

Fuelly users say:
2014 – 49.9 MPG
2013 – 48.6 MPG
2012 – 51.6 MPG
2011 – 47.7 MPG
2010 – 47.0 MPG

FYI, it’s “you’re schilling”, not “your schilling” (you’re = you are). 😀

http://fueleconomy.gov/m/m.do?action=vehicles&id=35556

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

Yes and “your” = possessive. As in, it is his schilling that is obvious. “You’re” would imply that he is presently schilling. “Your” would imply on ongoing thing.

What makes you so certain that the former was intended when the latter actually has a stronger meaning?

Okay, putting on my Grammar Nazi hat here:

Because the phrase “You are shilling for Toyota” is a commonplace and grammatically correct sentence structure, whereas “Your shilling for Toyota” is neither. It’s not a complete sentence. Now, if I were to write “I find your shilling for Toyota to be rather irritating,” that would be correct… and not only grammatically. 😉

…And if we’re being pedantic, it’s “shilling”, not “schilling” which is the former Austrian currency unit. (-:

Glad someone finally noticed.

Muphry’s [sic] Law: “If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written.”

Sven, if Fuelly is an acceptable source for MPG’s, that means we get to apply it to the Volt as well. Perhaps it will finally put all the “Volt naysers” to rest who claim the Volt gets only 40mpg? 😉

Volt fuel statistics from Fuelly:
2015 – 73.5 MPG
2014 – 91.4 MPG
2013 – 107.1 MPG
2012 – 100.9 MPG
2011 – 95.2 MPG

They have a pretty sweet chart too, though people’s reporting generally stops at GM’s own “250+ MPG” reporting limit, so these numbers are pessimistic, if anything.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/volt

If you want stats for the Volt which are actually meaningful, I recommend…

http://www.voltstats.net

So-called “MPG” figures are meaningless if they include some electrically powered miles. Obviously when you get up to 100 MPG, that must include miles driven on the battery pack. Presumably a lot of the lower numbers include electric miles, too.

voltstats.net properly reports electric miles separate from gas-powered miles.

and if some retards whouldnt be easily deceived, they would understood that Tesla states total miles, not supercharger miles

jmollard, Aaron, Acevolt

Guys, please check your facts before posting here.

eVgo actually invests and installs EVSEs. Chargepoint sells EVSEs to investers at exorbitant prices (like $7000) and collects fat management fees.

Before you give credit to Chargepoint for providing a free charger, please understand that they do not own that charger, they are not giving you the free charge, somebody else is.

Again the difference is that eVgo is investing money, Chargepoint is purely taking money.

I agree, we shouldn’t be too hard on eVgo. Aside from some dealers in my area (Maryland suburbs of Washington DC) in the past 6-9 months, and some private businesses (Thanks MOMs!), they have been the only ones doing the nuts and bolts legwork of installing and commissioning DC fast chargers. Believe me, I’ve talked to insiders at eVgo: Its harder than it looks.

ChargePoint is “purely taking money” by offering a one-stop solution that few others in the market are. I’m not sure why that has earned them your ire.

My workplace went with ChargePoint for our chargers because they wanted to offer “free” charging to employees, but they also wanted to make sure that 1) only employees could use the chargers and 2) they could keep track of how many employees were utilizing them. ChargePoint is really the only vendor that is offering that kind of solution out-of-the-box right now.

On a related note, there were 6 L2 EVSEs installed last May, and 4 more were added in December. The ability to track usage made a concrete difference.

RE: CO2
Pounds are often reported, but its tons that move the needle. “>1B” pounds gets Tesla into the ton realm, at a half-million avoided. For reference, many commercial scale coal plants spew 5-10 million/year. Tesla’s is a remarkable number, no matter how you look at it.

…if I had a nickle, for every mid-west utility reporting “x0,000 pounds of CO2 avoided by our hybrid service cars.”? A true order of magnitude, of irrelevant green-washing.

60M lbs also gets you “into the ton realm.” In fact, anything above 2000 lbs gets you into the ton realm.

So I’m not sure I see your point.

I find this amazing that in less then 42 months since the Chevy Volt EREV and Nissan LEAF ended limited US beta sales and #EVs1stWave began, November, 2011 that there are over 60,000+ #EVFillingStation’s globally. These can be interacted with and pinpointed world wide by using the number one global, crowd sourced, EV Filling Station Finder, Plug Share Dot Com. Simply zoom in, way in to the Google Maps interface or enter your address in the window on the top left of the screen, globally! Powered by Recargo Inc, the parent company of Plug In America Dot Org. Both the web browser Google Earth widget and the Smart Phone App are Free. Links Go To Plug Share Dot Com and Plug Share’s Twitter Account- http://www.plugshare.com/ https://twitter.com/plugshare Note, remember to zoom way in and the Plug share Google Maps widget will populate like rabbits! The google Maps widget works fairly well on the small portable device browser screen as well as laptops and desk tops. Charge Point accounts for many of the EV filling stations, however vast amounts are put in place by Eaton, GE, Blink and many others. Ps. Many of Charge Points L2 #EVSE’s are FREE. #EVPlugNStay #EVPlugNPlay A… Read more »
CherylG's_DirtyLittleSecret

But do the chargepoint numbers reflect the times a Tesla charged in their charger using an adapter to chargepoint?!?!?!?!?

So Tesla has delivered half a million 60 kWh charges in three years, or about the same as one big, busy gas station. Break out the champagne.

So, I guess your argument is that if any car owner can’t completely eliminate all use of gas to power cars by buying an EV, then nobody should buy one?

“I am only one, but I am still one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. And because I cannot do everything I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.” — Helen Keller

Um, not my argument.

My employer, [Name Redacted], installed an open L2 in the yard, I expected (hoped) that it could be utilized by the staff at the office.

Instead, it was for the exclusive use of an experimental converted service vehicle. Just one. One. Without a word, the experiment ended, the truck went “away”, and now they store pallets in that spot so the cord is inaccessible.

SMH.