Tesla Supercharger In Aurora Replaced By 4 High Power Wall Connectors

Tesla Supercharger Aurora, Illinois

FEB 25 2018 BY MARK KANE 43

Tesla Supercharging stations, at least those built using temporarily mobile units, will not necessarily remain on-line if usage does not meet Tesla’s requirements.

Tesla Supercharger Aurora, Illinois

Recently opened Aurora IL Supercharger located at Two Brothers Brewing Company. Photo by Mike Anthony

That’s what seems to have happened in Aurora, IL at Two Brothers Roundhouse where former InsideEVs contributor Mike Anthony recently spotted four AC Destination Chargers in place of previously-there two mobile Superchargers.

Charging time from AC high-power charging stations are several times longer than from DC Supercharger, and depends on the on-board charger in the vehicle.

It was the first Supercharger Mike had visited and he hoped to some day see installation of permanent station, but that’s not going to happen. Apparently, the prime time location is not reason enough if usage isn’t high.

Give us sign if you know of more Supercharging stations that Tesla removed from the ground.

“Hello everyone. This video may not be important to you, but it was to me. First, I thought it was quite interesting to see that a Supercharger location has been taken away, and replaced with something else. Second, this meant a lot to me to see this because I remember filming right when that Supercharger opened, and me and a former friend hopped 4 Tesla locations on that day. Three sales locations and this location. I remember before, during, after back in March, 2014, I really wanted a Tesla in the worst way… Okay, lets be real here, ever since I’ve discovered Tesla, I wanted a Model S. It took only 30 minutes for it to become my #1 favorite car. Anyway, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do with my life at the time, and soon after I figured it out and I now own a Model S P85. But I remember being there, wanting to be able to plug the supercharger into my own Tesla. Sadly, it is gone. This location is now a “destination charger”. Has 4 High Power Wall Connectors at 40A. This location is open as a cafe in the morning, and self explanatory in afternoon. Address to Two Brothers Roundhouse: -205 N Broadway, Aurora, IL”

A Former Tesla Supercharger Location – Aurora, IL – Two Brothers Roundhouse. Now with 4 High Power Wall Connectors (source: Archives of Mike Anthony)

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43 Comments on "Tesla Supercharger In Aurora Replaced By 4 High Power Wall Connectors"

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ziv

I hate to admit this, but I have never understood what a 30 amp or a 40 amp charger is. Are they assuming that the voltage is 220, so since it is a 40 amp charger that means it is going to charge at approximately an 8.8 kW charge speed?
Why say amperage when the actual charge speed is measured in kW’s? Wouldn’t it be better to say that this is a 9 kW charger? Do heavy duty chargers (i.e DCFC’ers) frequently use voltages over 220-240?
Again, sorry to ask such a basic question but I see these amp reports all the time and my first thought has always been that I am missing something.

simone

in us tesla uses single phase only , in europe thanks to the type2 plug can also charge 3 phase , old modelS where able to charge up to 22kw , modern models can only charge up to 16kw

ziv

I am not sure what you are saying. How can a Tesla charge at 16 kW on a 40 amp charger? Is the voltage higher than 220/240?
This is exactly what my original post was about. Charging seems to be described in multiple ways, some of them make sense and some don’t.

Michael Will

+1

kW makes most sense.

Leeper

Watts= amps * volts
So a 30amp charger at 240volts would be 7,200 Watts or 7.2 kw. Voltages vary at the plug, for example mine shows 238 volts and my charger runs at 30amps max so my maximum output is only 7.14kw.

Mike A

Thanks Leeper for the math lesson. That’s why my Volt takes like 16 hours to charge with a 120 outlet at home. Less than a kilowatt per hour on the 8 Amp setting. If I understand correctly. Trying to decide if I should upgrade to 240, or wait until I trade up to an EV. Probably doesn’t make $ sense when I only buy about 20 gal a year.

ziv

Mike, I have had my Volt for almost 5 years and I have a regular 120 plug that I use. I have found that since I am home by 9pm most nights and don’t leave until 8am, I really don’t need a fast charger. In fact, most nights I don’t even need to set the slow charger from 8 amps to 12 amps.
The frustrating part is that when I do need to charge fast during the day, usually over lunch, I can only charge at 3.3 regardless of how fast the charger is capable of charging. So I am happy to charge at around 0.960 kW at night ( I seldom bother to set it up to charge at 1.4 kW charging) but I would really like to be able to charge at 10 kW over my lunch break on those few days where I drive 50 or 60 miles.

All-Purpose Guru

This is because the charger is in reality in your car, and in yours is limited to 3.3kW. Some vehicles (I think the newer volts) can charge at 6.6kW.

The “charger” you are referring to is basically just a software-controlled switch on a cable that delivers power to your car’s onboard charger. No matter how much juice the cable can provide, if your charger in your car can only do 3.3kW that’s all you get.

guyinacar
This thread is gold. What the loudest, most puritanical EV zealots fail to see is simple: 80 units of 10A EVSEs represents a vastly better solution than 2 units of 400A EVSEs (though the math is the same). In fact, given that some of the 80 will be cars “on the charger” without causing a squabble between drivers about “not moving fast enough” during/after taper — in reality, those 2x400A EVSEs are really more like the equivalent of 100 to 150 networked EVSEs at “only” 10A/240v. The latter would top off most electric cars at a rate roughly equivalent to the duration of their drive to a restaurant, hotel, office building, airport, train station, etc. It’s enough to send patrons on their way. I was at Logan Airport (BOS) this week. Logan was early public provider of free EVSEs and EV-only parking. Well, guess what? There’s new signage on the couple dozen EVSEs (probably 40A): “Cars parked here after the completion of charging will be towed at the owner’s risk and expense.” This, of course, while you’re on a plane, or in a distant city. This means Logan now has effectively zero EVSEs. What they’d really needed were a thousand… Read more »
All-Purpose Guru

What happens is that not only can you get 240V instead of 120V (thereby doubling your power) you also can get 30A instead of 15A (usually dumbed down to 12A to account for somewhat dodgy wiring in some places) so a Level 2 charger will give you roughly 4x the power of a Level 1 charger.

At work we don’t have chargers so I use my level 1 charger– in general I’m there for 10-12 hours per day so I can get a full charge in my Honda Fit EV. If I use a Level 2 charger it takes about 3 hours, so you can see the 4x benefit.

Same goes for home, when I’m home I can plug in overnight, so the lower charge rate is not an issue.

Tom

Hence the Prius Prime. It’s battery is smaller than Volt and even easier to use a standard plug. No special equipment required.

jimjfox

From my 50 y.o. electrical engineering theory, P=VI applies only to DC.
AC power is I²R or VI cos θ where θ = [voltage – current] phase angle.
My knowledge is apparently completely out of date.

P= power, Watts; V= potential difference [Voltage] , Volts;
I= current, Amperes [NOT “Amperage”]

Bill Howland

Theta in this case is under 1 degree (and also the ‘Apparent Power Factor’ which you did not mention, is also quite good – namely due to Euro requirements.

I*I*R applies in all circuits – (skin effect is an issue changing the “R” in AC circuits, but its a minor issue here).

So Cosine (Theta) in this case may be assumed to be 1 in case of almost all Conductive car charging (some of the WIRELESS things are absolutely ratty, but the car itself is good.).

Amps times volts on a single phase circuit may be used with little error, on any ‘level 2’ EV.

zzzzzzzzzz

ziv,

3 phases means you can (and should) have the same load on each of the phase. Voltage to neutral is the same 220-240 V for each phase.

Voltage between phases is higher by square root of 3 because phase voltage is shifted into opposite sides part of the time. It would be around 400 V, but you don’t need it for power calculations.

22 kW would be somewhat lower than peak 40 A draw can provide, but you need to subtract charger losses, some 15-20%.

ziv

Thanks, z. So if 40 amp can mean different things due to the different types of charging, wouldn’t it be easier and more clear to just say what the max kW charge rate is for a charger?
I didn’t know 3 phase charging could get more than [.240 * 40 = 9.6 ] 9.6 kW charge rates out of a 40 amp charger, so thanks for that info, though I have to admit that it is more complicated than I had hoped.

Djoni

The wall connecter installation manual do show dip switch adjustment for higher than 240 volts.
Probably 277 volts but not much higher.

Agree Kw is straightfoward and easyer to understand.

Bill Howland

These are not Euro installations where the current is limited to 32 amperes. These are North American Single Phase only installations.

The latest version of the owner’s manual no longer recommends or lists 277 volt operation, and doesn’t apply in this case anyway since the car SAID it is 209-210. No need to guess.

All-Purpose Guru
The problem is there are 3 different parts here that are communicating together to make things confusing. 1) The service you plug into will have a power rating, such as 40A at 220V (the wall outlets in a home in the US are rated 120V at 15A, for example, while a “dryer outlet” is typically 240V at 30A or 20A depending on the age of the house.) 2) The EVSE (the cord you plug in to the service and into your car) will also have a rating, which you can’t exceed– The one in your car is generally rated 120V at 12A so that’s the maximum it will tell the car it has to offer. Tesla recently irritated a bunch of new owners by derating the connector that comes with the car, so the new cords won’t charge as fast as the old ones. 3) finally, the car itself has another rating, which is the maximum amount of juice the car can take– the Nissan Leaf had a maximum 3.3kW charger unless you get the 6.6kW charger option at one point, for example. When you plug a car in, there is this complicated song-and-dance that happens between the car and… Read more »
scottf200

Easier is miles of range per hour added. Here is a Tesla chart that shows amps (120v) to MoRpHcomment image

ziv

But why would you list mile of range added for a particular car when that range will vary due to speed, temperature and technique? Not to mention the fact that a 3 will go further than an S and the further than an X, in most cases.
Why not just say that these chargers will charge at up to a 9 kW charge rate?

vdiv

Because the power rating does not identify the limiting values of the voltage and current, case in point are the 50 kW DCFCs that in practice deliver much lower power either due to the lower battery voltage or the current being limited to 125A or maybe 100A or sometimes even less. Ideally should list the max current available and the voltage at that load.

wavelet

No, it’s not easier as a way to describe the charger. In fact, it’s silly for that purpose, since it depends on the specific EV and conditions it will next be driven in.
There’s already a defined, commonplace, unit for this: kW.
If you’re trying to give an example to an EV noob it’s one thing, but on a site like InsideEVs, only kW should be used.

Tom

Any other way is just stupid.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Assuming 240V. Although commercial can be 208V.
But the Amperage is relevant because plug-ins have amperage limits.

ziv

The amperage limit is a good point, but listing a charger by its amperage is like GPS only telling the car buyer what the cars maximum speed is instead of telling them what the speed limit is where the car is being driven.

Ziv

Maybe that should have been ” listing a charger by its amperage is like a cars GPS only telling the car’s driver what the car’s maximum speed is instead of telling the driver what the speed limit is where the car is being driven.”

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

An owner has an idea of how fast their car can charge.
They have a number x that tells them what “as fast as possible” is.

If the public charger is not as fast as possible they need too know the relative speed.

It could be 40 v 48, 30 v 32, 9.6 v 11.5, 7.2 v 7.7.

However, owners have to know their charger amperage for their home charging, so giving amperage is guaranteed to be informative.

Ziv

I hear you about the value of including the amperage and voltage but I still think that the max kW rating is the most important of the three. Include all three if you can, (or just kW and amperage) but if you only have the time to state one, make it the max kW charge rate. It is the long pole in the tent.

energymatters

It relates primaril6y to the wire size and the current rating of the components in the charger.

Since Watts = Volats * Amps if you have a higher voltage the same amperage will give you higher power and so more range in less time.

A wire of a given size is rated in amps but can typically handle a wide range of voltage.

A good analogy is the pressure of water and the size of your pipes.

Martin Winlow

Whilst I agree kW ratings would be universally more helpful (IEVs – are you listening?) the thing that defining an EVSE (charging point) by its current capability gives you is the size or rating of the connecting cable and plug. You can’t derive this from a simple power (kW) rating because we don’t always know the voltage.

It is just ‘one of those things’ that the current carrying capability of a copper conductor (wire) is defined entirely by its cross-sectional area. The higher the current, the thicker the conductor must be for the same losses (due to resistance primarily). And these losses go up in direct relation to the square of the current (P=I^2R)! This is (generally) why long distance AC power lines are at tens of thousands of volts. By massively increasing the voltage (using fairly efficient and cheap transformers at both ends) you can drop the current way down and therefore achieve a low loss transmission system using comparatively cheap, narrow conductors.

But, like I said, I agree – let’s specify EVSEs in kW!

Ned

I am surprised they didn’t install those with 80A service. Obviously the electrical service is there to support it, since the SCs draw much more.

Leeper

Maybe he only has a single charger and couldn’t test the full speed?

zzzzzzzzzz

Maybe they need to pay demand charges for the peak load, or location business owner needs peak load for his own needs. Or maybe Tesla isn’t awash in cash at this time.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

They were temporary to begin with with.

You must still be asleep…..zzzzzzz

Jim

This supercharger has been ready for removal since they opened a new one nearby and much closer to the highway. Destination chargers are the right answer here as people like to let their cars charge while sitting down for a meal. This is the first location that I ever had to wait for a stall to open up.

Michael Will

On long distance trips coinciding meals with charging in the middle is our preferred way to avoid waiting around. Destination chargers are for locals that don’t need the full charge or for hotels where you charge overnight.

Michael Will

Interesting that one nearby opened – that would have been an important detail for the article and puts the situation into a completely different light.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Yes, that wasn’t mentioned, even though it’s relevant. The temporary Superchargers are temporary. So, they’ve turned the location into a destination. Those temporary Superchargers should turn up somewhere else.

earl colby pottinger

Maybe the owner of the Two Brothers Round House wants customers to stay longer.

Looking at the Two Brother’s website and I see events/meals that easily run a hour or two to do.

Is it possible that in the future that we will see businesses going for slower chargers to try and keep customers at their location longer?

Roy_H

The business pays for the electricity. Their main concern is to attract customers, and not concerned that the visiting cars get a full charge. Getting an hours worth of added range is fine, unless you are a local who cannot or won’t charge at home. Putting in 80A chargers would cost more but not encourage more people to visit.

ziv

I agree, Roy. I shop at several stores in large part due to the fact that they have free chargers. The funny thing is that I will drive a mile or two out of my way to shop there, and in the time I am in the store I will get just 30 or 40 cents worth of electricity. But I want to support the people that support electric cars so it is worth it to me. In a typical day I doubt the chargers actually deliver more than a dollar or two of electricity, so the good will and loyal shoppers are well worth the cost of having the chargers installed.
And maybe though 10 kW chargers are worth it for the store owner to install, a 75 kW charger would be more expensive to install and would deliver enough electricity so that the cost of electricity actually becomes a factor, thereby making a free fast charger not worthwhile even though a slow charger is a good idea business-wise.

William L

Tesla charges some MS/X and all M3 to use the supercharger. How about destination chargers?

Bill Howland

I don’t know why everyone ‘assumes’ what the voltage is, when the car said it was around 209-210.

The charge rate therefore was 8.4 kw. No need to guess.

The voltage was not 277, 120, 220, or 240. The car itself said it was 209-210.

Pushi always mocks fun of me when talking about SuperChargers, such as there are no disconnects. But you can look back through all my comments ever and I have said both the temporary, and mobile SC’s have them (which incidentally are clearly visible in the video).