Tesla Semi Revealed – Range Of Up To 500 Miles, Available 2019

NOV 17 2017 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 198

Tesla Semi

Out at the Jet Center in Los Angeles, California, Tesla revealed to the world its new “blow your mind clear out of your skull” semi.

In the build-up to the reveal, very little (if any) concrete information was known, so we were left wondering such things as:

  • What will its electric range be?
  • How much will it cost?
  • When will it be available?
  • What’s the payback period?

Well, now that it’s been revealed, we can begin to answer some of those questions. We’ll start with range

Tesla Semi

Range

The Semi is said to have a range of 500 miles operating at GVW and highway speeds, which is generally further than a diesel-powered rig can go on a single tank. That’s aided by efficient aerodynamic designs for the rig, including a flat bottom and side flaps to all but close off the gap between truck and trailer. All combined, Tesla says its Semi has a drag coefficient better than that of the Bugatti Chiron. Musk says Megachargers will add 400 miles of range in just 30 minutes.

Tesla Semi

Availability

Tesla says the Semi will enter production in 2019 and is already taking reservations at $5,000 per truck. If this goes forward as-advertised, we aren’t shy about saying this machine could be a bonafide game changer in the automotive world – trucking or otherwise.

Tesla Semi

Payback & Price

As far as price, Tesla makes no mention of total cost but does claim owners can realize a $200,000 savings in fuel over the course of a million miles. That sounds like a ton of driving to mere mortals, but racking up that kind of mileage is par for the course in the trucking world.

Prior to the reveal of the semi, Bloomberg released an interesting post on this very topic. It’s rather in depth, with interviews, math calculations and so forth, but the real highlight is this simple graphic showing possible prices and payback periods. We do suggest you read the entire article for the necessary background though, but the gist is that payback is what fleet operators look at most, so the figures need to make sense from a financial standpoint.

Tesla Semi

Tesla Semi

Tesla Semi

Tesla Semi

Tesla Semi

Let’s not forget about the fun stuff …

The Tesla Semi will go zero-to-60 mph in five seconds. With 80,000 pounds in tow, it can still do it in a mere 20 seconds. How about 65 mph uphill? Typical semis are lucky to pull off an uphill at over 45 mph. If Tesla pulls this off, it’s now clear why Musk is so excited.

*Christopher Smith contributed to this article

Categories: Tesla, Trucks

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198 Comments on "Tesla Semi Revealed – Range Of Up To 500 Miles, Available 2019"

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FME III
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FME III

“…will enter production in 2019.”

Hmmmmm. Anyone want to wager which will be the first electric long haul truck on the market – Tesla, Nikola or Cummings?

CDAVIS
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CDAVIS

I wager Tesla

SJC
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SJC

IMO this is to get products from the warehouses to the stores.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu
The question is whether or not the Nikola semi tractor will never enter production. The biggest attraction for a BEV semi tractor is the savings in using electricity over diesel. But the Nikola One uses hydrogen fuel, which as nearly all EV fans know, is much more expensive on a per-mile basis than diesel. I don’t see any realistic market for the Nikola One. Even a niche market would require a subsidized price for hydrogen fuel, and that subsidy paid for by the government or some third party… not by either Nikola or a trucking company. There may be some… Read more »
Will
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Will

20 21 is my target date, i give tesla credit for this buts now lets see if trucking company will bite

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

That’s the billion-dollar question: How many, if any, trucking fleet operators will “bite” at Tesla’s offer? If not many do, we can rest assured Tesla won’t put the truck into production, despite all Elon’s entertaining, tongue-in-cheek hype. (Nice to see that he’s not taking this too seriously. Too bad the same can’t be said of the Tesla hating FUDsters!)

Will
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Will

How about independent truckers?? I see some of them jumping base on cost maintaince but the mega-chargers have to be near thier routes

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Tesla (or Elon) says it’s aiming at fleet sales. No doubt Tesla would sell a Semi Truck to any independent trucker who wanted to buy one, but my understanding is it’s going to be a lot harder to make the economic case work for a small trucking company or individual owner-operator. As I understand it, the deal here is a higher up-front cost for the BEV Semi Truck in exchange for lower running cost. That higher up-front cost is going to be a lot easier for a large trucking company to bear than a small one. And yes, getting Megachargers… Read more »
Terawatt
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Terawatt
It seems that everything you confidently predicted yesterday that was shown to be completely wrong today has not humbled you in the slightest. It would be short range. The gap shown in the animation was “ridiculous”. As always you explained how you couldn’t really know, but you’d be very surprised if you weren’t right, since after all your logic was impermeable… Maybe today isn’t the best day to keep showing nonsense with confidence. Just being able to sound sure of yourself doesn’t mean you have a clue! Dare I add that while I made no specific predictions, my observations on… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Wow! How many fallacies is that in just one post there, Terawatt? First of all: Yes, some of my predictions have been shown to be wrong. Others — such as predicting that any actual production is at least 2 years off — have already been shown to be correct. To escape criticism — do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. — Elbert Hubbard And yes, the lack of gap between cab and trailer, and shown in the short animation, was and is ridiculous. If Tesla can actually do that in real life, then let them demonstrate it — which, apparently, you… Read more »
Mint
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Mint

Sorry Pushmi, but I don’t see anything childish from Terawatt.

That was a well reasoned humbling he gave you, and we’d all respect you more if you took it in stride.

Nick
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Nick

They did show the tight gap while turning. The cover folded out during the turn.

Someone out there
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Someone out there

Daimler

bro1999
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Heavy on hype, almost non-existent on specs…as usual.

And for any actual truckers out there….how many of you actually care what the 0-60 time is for your truck? Payload attached or not? Pretty silly to even mention those specs.

Arpe
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Arpe

The polish truck driver I saw in Italy would certainly want a better acceleration.
He drove by another truck on the runway leading to the highway.
Would have been a much more smooth overtake in a Tesla truck.

Another Euro point of view
Guest
Another Euro point of view

When overtaking, trucks in Europe are not limited by power, they are limited by their compulsory “black boxes” that are non stop recording all driving data including speed excess (speed limit for trucks in Europe is between 80 to 100 km/h depending on country).

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

Of course their acceleration is limited by power, just as all machines are limited by available power.

I’d think, Euro-FUDster, that you’d be so embarrassed by your recent claim that you could build a production EV around an elevator motor (!) that you’d stay out of any further discussion of EV technology. 🙄

https://insideevs.com/watch-new-tesla-roadster-accelerate-lightning-quick-video/#comment-1367078

Ambulator
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Ambulator

Truckers may not care a lot about acceleration, but they care some. It would be stupid not to point it out. Slightly more importantly, it is faster up hills, which will save some time (and money).

Nick
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Nick

Yep, Elon explicitly mentioned this exact point during the show.

needa
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needa

I think they care. Sitting for ten minutes sometimes to find whole big enough for them to pull out. Then again… more acceleration means probably damage to the cargo.

SparkEV
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“Heavy on hype, almost non-existent on specs…as usual.”

If this thing is as usual, Tesla will definitely deliver them. Of course, they will also deliver all the caveats: will be late, poor fit and finish, “strange” (aka, poor) service.

Nick
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Nick

Should have watched the presentation, Elon covered all of this.

0-60 time in picture above is without trailer. Time at 80k lbs is 20 seconds.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu
bro1999 continued his Tesla hater FUD campaign: “And for any actual truckers out there… how many of you actually care what the 0-60 time is for your truck? Payload attached or not?” Obviously you have never driven a heavy truck. But even so, I’d think it would be obvious to anyone who’s ever been behind a tractor-trailer rig when they pull away from a stop light, or behind one driving up a steep hill, that acceleration and power are rather limited in such trucks. I’m sure everyone who drives a truck for a living would appreciate having more power available… Read more »
Get Real
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Get Real

And you MadBro are heavy on FUD and short on real perspective as usual.

Switching the diesel truck fleet to electric will pay huge dividends in pollution reductions and energy security as well as much lower TCO for these companies.

The gauntlet has been thrown and as ususal you will whine about it in your predictable mental chicken little way.

Jason
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Jason

Not to mention the noise! Love hearing those air brakes in the morning, NOT! Regen should be virtually silent. Ah, the serenity 🙂
I don’t think people really will appreciate the lack of noise once EV’s dominate. Trucks make a LOT of noise we just take for granted at the moment.

RAV4 EV
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RAV4 EV

Let’s not forget the savings on maintenance.

I thought that was one of the biggest cost savings to justify city’s buying electric buses.

I just want to know when an electric RV with range like this will be available.

Terawatt
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Terawatt
We all know your main reason for coming here is to indulge in your hobby of online forum warfare with the Tesla sect members. If this is the best you can come up with, the Semi must be incredibly good..! Acceleration without a load isn’t much of an issue with modern trucks, even though more would be better. But the glacial slowness with a fully loaded truck is of course something any truck driver wants to eliminate. Partly to avoid annoying everyone else on the road, partly to save time, but mainly to be able to enter roads safely without… Read more »
Jack
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Jack

“…will enter production in 2019.”

First 30 will go to Tesla employees

Big Solar
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Big Solar

more reasonable would be the first 30 going to Tesla motors

ClarksonCote
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ClarksonCote

Ahh, sarcasm meets reality.

God/Bacardi
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God/Bacardi

It’s very true; our first view of these on public roads will most likely be them going from the gigafactory in Sparks NV to Fremont CA…Then we’ll most likely see a Tesla truck with a car carrier carrying Tesla vehicles to delivery centers…

SJC
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SJC

Heavy loads go by rail.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

Not until Tesla has a railroad spur line built to Gigafactory One, they don’t! Building that that was part of the original plan for the Gigafactory (now called Gigafactory One), but Tesla hasn’t done that yet, and I don’t know why.

CDAVIS
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CDAVIS

“Available 2019”
————

Looks like someone that earlier predicted 2019 was right…

bro1999
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Very believable statement about the Model 3 and real deliveries. Thanks for sharing.

CDAVIS
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CDAVIS

Don’t forget to make your bed before heading to stats class…

Nick
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Nick

Bawahaha!

But seriously, stats can be quite unintuitive. I don’t blame people for being confused on such topics.

Jason
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Jason

Lol. 2019. Yeah right can’t even push out model 3

SparkEV
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Have you never seen any news related to Tesla before? They’ve been late with EVERY product they announced, and this will be no different. This is entirely to be expected.

CDAVIS
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CDAVIS

Tesla shorters may feel a bit more squeez today!

I bet there will be some very interesting conversation on the Topic of Tesla Semi at the next round of BOD meetings among the commercial truck makers.

Dan
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Dan
There is not as much shorting of Tesla stock going on as people think. Most of the losses are from insider sales and institutional sales. Those are both more worrisome than somebody speculating on Tesla stock to go down. People who own Tesla options and financial institutions who are analyzing Tesla’s performance in a more data driven way are heading for the exits. Those stocks are being bought over in the dips by “retail” investors, the kind of yeehaw on internet boards who gets caught up in buying frenzies and hype. That usually means that there is some kind of… Read more »
CDAVIS
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CDAVIS

Wrong… basically all of it… amazing.

ffbj
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ffbj

Thanks for doing that.

Mark.ca
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Mark.ca

Dan’s ignorance…mind blowing! How hard is it to check the shhort float? This is one of the most shorted stock on the market.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Dan said: “There is not as much shorting of Tesla stock going on as people think.” Reality check: Tesla stock (TSLA) is often the most shorted stock, of any. In fact, I read just the other day that currently it’s again the #1 shorted stock. What is amusing is that the level of “short interest” is so high that the shorts are actually driving up the stock price, contrary to the usual situation with short sellers providing a brake on soaring stock prices. Sometimes evil really is its own reward! 😀 😀 😀 (I define hoping for, and betting on,… Read more »
ffbj
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ffbj

True. It met a lot of resistance at $300 and now is squeezing back up. You can also get a clue when the big boys, Chanos, Einhorn, and others start crawling out of the woodwork, touting their short positions, that things are not going well, or as expected, for their positions.

It’s true some of the shorts have made money, but only when Tesla popped up way high. So you had to have good timing. Still a lot of interest because it’s a volatile stock and fundamentally is overpriced.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

I’m sure that some short-sellers have made money shorting TSLA, yes. It would be ridiculous to claim nobody has.

What I don’t understand is people who stay in a short position long-term; people like “tftf” and Mark B. Spiegel (aka “Logical Thought”)… and, presumably, most or all of those posting Tesla hater FUD here on a daily basis month after month and year after year.

With a stock as volatile as TSLA, that is guaranteed to lose money in the long term.

Another Euro point of view
Guest
Another Euro point of view

“financial institutions who are analyzing Tesla’s performance in a more data driven way are heading for the exits”

Not really, even if a fund manager has the solid opinion that Tsla will likely head downward as from 2018, he partly buys stocks that are in fashion as it is required by his non specialist customers. Cult stocks by definition are in fashion. That is the reason those stocks can crash extremely brutally leaving no time to retail investors to react.

Nix
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Nix
Institutional holdings are actually reported in 13F SEC reports and can easily be tracked. By far the vast majority of institutional investors are holding for long term profit. And of those who are buying and selling, more are buying than selling. Here are the hard cold facts per the most recent 13F reports: 85,023,024 shares are held by institutional investors in anticipation of long term profits. 6,581,307 shares were purchased by institutional investors. 5,119,067 shares were sold by institutional investors. More likely to take profits on their investments than to get out of TSLA. The net results are that institutional… Read more »
Dan
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Dan

The numbers you pulled down should allow you to calculate what % of those shares are institutional and yet, you didn’t. You forget that total shares outstanding is variable. The latest insitutional ownership based on the numbers that you yourself posted is 57.5%. What was it in Q1, 2017? I’ll save you a google. It was 67%. You don’t see 10% of a stock rolling out from institutional investors towards retail investors as a big change? What does that tell you?

If I’m a lying scumbag, what kind of filthy, rotten animal does that make you?

Paul de Wit
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Paul de Wit

I truly hope the big T can pull this one off. Just like the new roadster.
When they do the future has just came in 20 years early!

Apparently it charges 400 miles in 30 minutes via a “Mega charger”
They will need A pretty big battery pack on the charger sites too to enable this.

It seems like Tesla are becoming a big customer of their own batteries.
Only problem with that is that is costs lots and of cash.

I do love their ambition and the cause it serves.

needa
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needa

The question is how long they will be able to get that kind of charging speed? Very few actually get what they are supposed to on the cars. And the more you use the superchargers… the longer it takes.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

Megachargers will need an industrial power hookup. It will be up to trucking companies to decide where to install those. I don’t see Tesla getting into the business of operating a Megacharger network open to the public, as the Supercharger network is.

I think the business arrangement for Megachargers will be like Tesla Destination Chargers, with Tesla installing the charger but the property owner actually owning the equipment, providing power, and being responsible for maintenance.

Someone out there
Guest
Someone out there

Yes and also a huge battery bank backup to avoid huge peak demand charges. There is no way Tesla will be able to provide electricity for 7 cents/kWh with demand charges but on the other hand a huge battery bank will also cost a fortune so clearly Tesla intends to sell electricity at a loss.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

“…clearly Tesla intends to sell electricity at a loss.”

Or maybe Tesla intends to install Megachargers only where there will be no demand charges, such as on a property which has an industrial power hookup? Or maybe Tesla will tell fleet operators they are responsible for demand charges?

I think it’s waaaaaaay too early to come to any conclusions. (One of my predictions, that fleet operators would be paying for the power for these Megachargers, has already been shown to be wrong.)

As they say, The devil is in the details, and we don’t yet know the details.

energymatters
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energymatters

More likely new truck plazas with lots of solar and batteries. Minimal connection to the utility.

Owning solar panel manufacture, and having access to lowest costs batteries leaves you a lot of room to make $$ on a free fuel source.

The battery eliminates the demand charge.

Keep in mind large solar bids (to Austin Energy, etc.) are at under $0.05/KWH.

Bill Howland
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Bill Howland

“We don’t know …details”

Finally a true statement… You are more right than you meant to be.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

No, I was exactly as right as I meant to be, as usual.

Most people don’t have any particular problem with that, Bill. I realize, though, that for someone who has a rather tenuous connection with reality, someone such as a die-hard conspiracy theorist like you, this is a serious daily challenge.

bro1999
Guest

They can’t even get the Gigafactory properly backed up by batteries, so to think they can seamlessly set up all these “megachargers” is silly.

bro1999
Guest

To add, Elon spouted off a 2019 production date, so in real world time that’s probably 2022 or so. Plenty of time for Tesla to figure out the logistics for these megachargers I guess. :p

Bill Howland
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Bill Howland

Point taken BRO1999, but PUSHI is clueless when it comes to this kind of thing.

Don’t blame Tesla for any incompetant statements in this forum.

I see this kind of thing as simple and straightforward, if you’ve got the CA$H.

But bringing up discontinuity of Gigafactory operation is a sobering point.

I mentioned on that article simple things every factory has ever done and then someone commented – “Its so simple of course Tesla has planned for it”. But then they didn’t, – hence the connundrum.

Pushmi-Pullyu
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Pushmi-Pullyu

Hey Bro1999, you must love straw man arguments, ‘cuz you sure do use them a lot! 🙄

So, your assertion here is that the same company that has set up the world class Tesla Supercharger network, won’t be able to set up a Megacharger network for BEV Semi Trucks. Got it. 😆

Hey, how’s your TSLA short investment doing today? Feeling the squeeze, dude?
😀 😀 😀

Nix
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Nix
Actually, Elon explained this. They WILL be building Megachargers on interstate routes, and they WILL be charging 7 cents. They are accomplishing this with Solar panels and battery backup that they build themselves at Gigafactory1 and Gigafactory2. They can lock the price in because they will be locking in most of their costs to generate electricity ahead of time (because that’s how solar works). They will also be selling Megachargers to fleet operators to install on their sites. They could then choose to install solar and battery backup too, and lock in their own fuel costs if they want to.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
I seriously doubt that Tesla will be providing a significant amount of energy to the Megachargers with solar power. Tesla claimed back when Superchargers were new that they would be solar powered. In reality, not so much, and one doesn’t have to be a genius to see that Megachargers are even less likely to be powered by solar panels, since the power requirement will be much higher. By my “napkin math” calculations, a single Supercharger would need a solar farm the size of 1-2 football fields in size, if solar power was to provide all the energy on a continuous… Read more »
Nick
Guest
Nick
Nick
Guest
Nick

Note that a large battery will be used at ~all of these sites to keep them on average power instead of peak.

BenG
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BenG

If they are serious about selling these things, they will have to open a Megacharger network along main interstate routes, just like they did Superchargers, though perhaps not on as many secondary interstates.

No other private company would spend that money to build it out in advance of there being a large pool of trucks already on the road.

Of course for regional use the truck can charge at the destination, potentially while unloading and maybe reloading.

Paul de Wit
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Paul de Wit

Perhaps the range will be 200-300 miles as reported previously, but EACH way?
That way the trucks will only charge at the trucking company.
Who will get chargers as part of. The package.
Who knows..

Don Zenga
Guest
Don Zenga

With the driver sitting in the center, there will not be a need for Leaf side / Right side steering.

500 miles is more than expected. But I think the trailer will be tied to the tractor.

For those who said that Electric can never match diesel, Tesla has shown a big stick.

Great job Team Tesla. It was a Trio night with Semi, Pickup and a Sports car.

Nix
Guest
Nix

Elon stated that it can pull existing trailers.

SparkEV
Guest

They need to make some space for the dog(s) for long range version.

Nick
Guest
Nick

Yep, that cab looks very focused on day use only.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Yes, especially for no place for a second driver to “ride shotgun”. But actually that makes sense, because after 500 miles (or more realistically, probably a bit less) the truck will have to be hooked up to a Megacharger for 30-60 minutes, or a lower-powered charger for a longer period.

No need for a second driver if the maximum distance run is only 500 miles or a bit less!

Nix
Guest
Nix

There is additional seating. It is folded up in the pictures.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

There are jump seats folded up behind the driver.

As I said, there’s no place for a passenger to “ride shotgun”, which means to the side of the driver.

Nick
Guest
Nick

Yep, that cab looks very focused on day use only.

Brian D
Guest
Brian D

The Bloomberg chart is useless, as there’s no way this semi will come in at $215,000.

SparkEV
Guest

Even if you double the cost, payback period is only 4 years. That ain’t bad at all.

bro1999
Guest

That assumes 7 cents/kWh charging costs. WUT? Who pays for electricity that cheap?

Nick
Guest
Nick

People who charge at the mega chargers. This is the guaranteed ceiling rate at mega chargers. Elon covers this in the presentation. Tesla is hoping to beat that rate. Wholesale solar is already much cheaper.

Tim F.
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Tim F.

That’s the cost to charge at Megachargers. So, the assumption is all charging will be done there rather than at retail electric rates.

energymatters
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energymatters

Bro1999 California wholesale (LMP) cost runs around $0.035/KWH. The Utility markup by a factor 500%-1000% to reach retail.

Other parts of country are similar to lower at wholesale.

David H
Guest
David H

How did you calculate that? If it is double the price the payback time is 8 years.

SparkEV
Guest

Bloomberg table above shows 2 years payback. If you double the price, it would be 4 years. How did you get 8 years?

But even 8 years ain’t bad, though 4X initial outlay might be hard to swallow for many companies.

F150 Brian
Guest
F150 Brian

(2*215 – 150) / 31 = 9.03 years payback

SparkEV
Guest

Doh! You are right of course. Math was never my strong suit…

Someone out there
Guest
Someone out there

True and also the driving pattern may be very different with this truck. Since it have to recharge (and I don’t believe a word about that 400 miles in 30 min BS) it will likely have lower yearly mileage changing the calculation.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“Someone out there” said:

“…I don’t believe a word about that 400 miles in 30 min BS…”

Another day, another bit of Tesla hating FUD, eh “Somewhere”?

In the real world, unlike the Bizarro world of Planet FUDster, it’s a pretty straightforward bit of math: If the battery pack is good for 500 miles, then an 80% charge would be good for 400 miles, and Tesla certainly has shown with its Superchargers that an 80% charge in 30 minutes is possible, altho that’s optimum.

All the Megacharger needs is higher power from the grid, which certainly is no engineering challenge.

Someone out there
Guest
Someone out there

It’s not straightforward at all to deliver 800kW or more in a cable and not have anything melt or anyone electrocuted.

Nix
Guest
Nix

It is very straight forward. Which is why the Norwegians have been doing it for a couple of years already with their battery powered ferries. They are charging 150 kWh in TEN MINUTES!! No problem:

https://cleantechnica.com/2015/06/13/worlds-first-electric-battery-powered-ferry/

If you think we are anywhere near the technical limits of fast charging, you are way behind the times.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

I am often dismayed at the lack of knowledge about high voltage systems in discussions of EV tech.

High voltage power delivery is an engineering challenge that was solved more than a century ago, and is in quiet everyday use in industrial installations all over the world. There’s nothing particularly hard about it, and safety concerns have long since been dealt with.

Oh, and Proterra already has BEV bus chargers working at 500 kW. Those are installed and in use, not just a “prototype”.

Jason
Guest
Jason
When every other manufacturer had done squat, but Tesla has rolled out a world wide super charger network and vehicles with real world range and performance, I think I have more faith in Tesla being able to achieve this than other auto manufacturers being able to achieve their claims. Take for instance the $5bil/yr profit company like Nissan, is the 2018 Leaf the best they can do? Or what about the 2nd largest car manufacturer in the world, VW, is the e-Golf and so far non existent ID the best they can do? Elon has a mission and he is… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“The Bloomberg chart is useless, as there’s no way this semi will come in at $215,000.”

Oh, I think it might well come in at a substantially lower price than that. Keep in mind that Tesla is talking about renting the battery pack, not selling it. A typical price for a relatively high-end new diesel semi tractor is $150,000, and I can easily believe the Tesla Semi Truck will come in at less than that, since it won’t have the expense of an ICE powertrain.

Benz
Guest
Benz

The battery pack capacity was not mentioned.

“The Semi is said to have a range of 500 miles operating at GVW and highway speeds,”

And

“Musk says Megachargers will add 400 miles of range in just 30 minutes.”

Can anyone make a calculated guess regarding to what the battery pack capacity is in kWh?

bro1999
Guest

For 500 miles at highway speeds WITH a payload, I’m thinking 500 kWh, or 1 mile/kWh. So 400 miles in 30 minutes would be some insane 800 kW charge rates. Even if the battery turns out to be a bit smaller, that’s still double the 350 kW charge rates Porsche is quoting for their Mission E. Sounds like science fiction for the time being.

Viking79
Guest

The chart above shows that it has a 600 kwh battery, assuming that is right, that would be say 480 kw in 30 min, or about 1 MWH.

This sounds high, but remember that is still less than 2C charge rate. My hunch is this will be a higher voltage pack. If you get the voltage at 1000 V or higher you can use a lot less charging current. My hunch is this will not be the same connector that a car uses, or it will use multiple chargers.

It definitely isn’t scifi, just challenging.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

@Benz
here’s my estimate of battery size and charging power

400 miles in 30 minutes = roughly 1280 kw

500 miles range @1.6-2.0 kwh/mi=800-1000 kwh

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
“Can anyone make a calculated guess regarding to what the battery pack capacity is in kWh?” Before this Reveal, estimates were ~0.5 kWh per mile, and based on that, 500 miles would need a 1000 kWh battery pack. But if Tesla really is using sliding panels to close off the gap between cab and trailer, they might be achieving even lower drag (and therefore better energy efficiency) than we were estimating. So, just as a ballpark guess, guessing that gives them another 10% range, maybe 900 kWh for 500 miles? Keep in mind, though, that the 500 miles is likely… Read more »
Ambulator
Guest
Ambulator

You did something wrong there. At 0.5 kWh/mile it would only take a 250 kWh battery. I think you meant 2 kWh/mile since around 900 kWh sounds about right to me.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

You’re right, I meant 0.5 miles per kWh. I messed up in trying to convert terms from my original estimate, where I used kWh per mile.

Thanks!

The devil is in the details.

Doggydogworld
Guest
Doggydogworld

Tesla web site says <2 kWh/mile. I assume that's at 60 mph, where they quote 500 mile range, instead of the 65 mph used in the SuperTruck program.

That means the battery is 1 MWh, give or take a few kWh.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

@Doggy
Link on the less than 2 kwh/mile please. Sounds about right to me.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

Tesla web site is here you can reserve now+ specs
https://www.tesla.com/semi/

MPGe less than 2 kwh/mi
2 year pay pack period

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

here’s my estimate of battery size and charging power

400 miles in 30 minutes = roughly 1280 kw

500 miles range @1.6-2.0 kwh/mi=800-1000 kwh

Mister G
Guest
Mister G

The payback period will be a little longer for a tesla truck if diesel prices drop because of increased supply and less demand…but just imagine no more dirty toxic particles coming out of trucks on our roads and highways HALLELUJAH praise the baby Jesus.

Mister G
Guest
Mister G

Are the batteries under the cab or in the trailer or both?

Nick
Guest
Nick

Under the cab.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

There is no good reason to put a battery pack in the trailer, period. Fuggedaboutit!

There will be plenty of room in the tractor for a large battery pack, once the diesel engine, transmission, gas tanks, etc. etc. are gone.

Mister G
Guest
Mister G

Pushi…placing a battery in trailer can extend the range, I can see trucking companies adding battery packs to trailers for long hauls to locations where charging isn’t available.

Nix
Guest
Nix

It would be cheaper to just extend the cab chassis enough to hold more batteries. Upfitters could do it if Tesla didn’t offer it as a factory option.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
I can see Tesla leaving space in the tractor for an larger battery pack, or a secondary auxiliary one. I can not see trucking companies investing in non-standard trailers to use with BEV semi tractors. The whole point of using tractor-trailer rigs is that, with few exceptions, any tractor can pull any trailer. If you throw that out, the entire business model collapses. I don’t see why this is so hard to understand. It’s pretty straightforward. Either a semi tractor can pull any semi trailer, or else it will be relegated to niche operations, which means few fleet operators would… Read more »
georgeS
Guest
georgeS

electrek stating that operating cost are 1.26$/mile vs 1.5/mile for the semi and making it appear as though they are Tesla numbers.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

Here’s an interesting tid bit:

Enhanced Autopilot:

Automatic Emergency Braking
Automatic Lane Keeping
Forward Collision Warning

What no FSD promise???

Benz
Guest
Benz

Regarding the Megacharger network:

What will be the maximum charge rate?

1 MW?

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

PRIUSMANIAC Will be hired by Tesla to install the 1,000 kw charging bay for the truck stop.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

Teslarati is saying Tesla is guaranteeing 7 cents/kwh electricity price.

That’s a biggie!!

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

That rather suggests that Tesla, and not the fleet owner, will be paying to provide electricity to the Megachargers, contrary to what I’ve been asserting.

I wonder what Tesla’s business model is here? With Tesla aiming at fleet sales, and fleets needing Megachargers positioned where it will best benefit them (and not the public at large), I was guessing Tesla’s business plan for the Megachargers would be like Tesla Destination Chargers, where the charger is owned by, and electricity provided by, the property owner.

But if Tesla is guaranteeing a fixed price for electricity, that indicates a different business plan.

Nick
Guest
Nick

Cheaper than rail transportation if in a convoy. That is insane.

Another Euro point of view
Guest
Another Euro point of view

Anyone with even a very basic knowledge in aerodynamics knows that what is decisive for good aero performances is not the shape of the front but the shape of the rear.

Nick
Guest
Nick

That and the shape of the middle. No gaps and a smooth underbody.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
Tesla can’t do anything about the shape of the trailer. Semi tractors have to haul standard trailers. If you demand they use specialized low-drag trailers, then you instantly eliminate most of the market for a semi tractor. There are also add-on “boat tails” and “skirts” which could be attached to a standard trailer; from what I’ve read, that can improve energy efficiency by up to 15%. But again, that’s something trucking companies are not gonna want to mess with. The goal is just to hook the trailer up to the semi tractor and Go! Not to mess around with installing… Read more »
Another Euro point of view (improved version)
Guest
Another Euro point of view (improved version)

Despite you treating me of fudster, shorter etc..I must say you comments are usually rather informative 🙂

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
Thank you for your politeness; it’s certainly better than mine! And if I’ve mis-identified you as an anti-Tesla FUDster, then my apologies. When someone continues to post the same factually incorrect negative claims about Tesla and its cars even after the truth has been pointed out to them, they look like a FUDster. As they say: If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, then it’s probably a duck. If you claim your comments are not FUD, despite consistently appearing to be so… well, perhaps you actually are a swan. But you sure… Read more »
ffbj
Guest
ffbj

He’s just from Missouri.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

..or maybe an ugly duckling that turned into…a black swan.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

I see what you did there. 🙂

fasterthanonecanimagine
Guest
fasterthanonecanimagine

Place a second battery into the trailer – adding some 4’500 to 6’500 pounds of weight for a 400 kWh or 600kWh battery, respectively – resulting in a 1000 mile+ range and a somewhat reduced payload …

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

No!

There’s plenty of room in the tractor, even for an auxiliary extended-range battery pack. No need to put a battery pack in the trailer, which would then require that trailer to be forever married to that one semi tractor.

The whole point of semi-tractor-trailer rigs is that the trailers are interchangeable. Batteries don’t go in the trailer!

mxs
Guest
mxs

Totally agree with that. It would make no sense to haul the battery pack behind the rig.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

batteries are under the cab.. excellent cutaway at Tesla rati.

Mister G
Guest
Mister G

Interchangeable??? A battery pack in the trailer will be interchangeable with any tesla cab.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

The question is why anyone would ever want to put a battery pack in the trailer. There is plenty of room in the cab; why separate the pack from the tractor?

Aside from that, the economics simply don’t work for putting the battery pack in the trailer. Trucking companies keep about 5-7 trailers around for every tractor, and no fleet operator is gonna rent 5-7 battery packs from Tesla to power just one tractor!

Nix
Guest
Nix

No reason for additional batteries in the trailer. Current federal laws mandate half hour rest periods where the driver is off-duty or using a sleeper berth for at least 30 minutes.

The recharge time for 400 miles of range is 30 minutes. If they start the day with 500 miles of range, and charge for 30 minutes during their mandated down time, they have a total range of 900 miles in a day without adding a single additional second to their day waiting to charge.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
Nix said: “The recharge time for 400 miles of range is 30 minutes. If they start the day with 500 miles of range, and charge for 30 minutes during their mandated down time, they have a total range of 900 miles in a day without adding a single additional second to their day waiting to charge.” And there we have the long-range BEV trucking business model! It’s astounding that Elon didn’t say that during the Reveal! Of course, it’s not as flexible as the diesel semi tractor business model; it requires the truck driver to spend his lunch break sitting… Read more »
Ron M
Guest
Ron M

Does Tesla own and operate all the charging units installed ?

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

That’s an excellent question, and one we are eager to see answered. If Tesla is guaranteeing a 7¢/kWh cost for charging, then that suggests to me that they will own and operate the Megachargers… contrary to what I had anticipated.

This is all brand new. We didn’t even have the “Megacharger” brand name yesterday.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

@PMPU
Have you studied the articles at electrek and teslarati yet??

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

No, but thanks for the tip! I’ll visit those sites shortly.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

The Teslarati article seems informative, altho I think most or all the useful data in that has already been reported in comments here.

The Electrek article… not so much. Lots of fluff, very little data. However, I give them kudos for lots of photos showing several things I had not seen other places. (I was unable to access the live event. I did try to follow Twitter feeds, but there wasn’t much useful info from that source.)

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-semi-unveiled-coming-2019-500-mile-range/

mxs
Guest
mxs

I have heard few truckers to laugh at the cost he had up there for regular truck in $/mile …. this might be some higher end number someone who plans to buy Tesla trucks gave them to play with.

Secondly … guaranteed 0.07$/kWh electricity price? … is it reasonable to assume that average US wholesale price is 0.05$/kWh …. so basically they make zero money on the “fuel” sell transaction to the trucker? Good for the truckers, not so good for them? Or do you think they can buy even cheaper than 5cents?

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

@mxs

Tesla’s numbers don’t add up. They say 200,000$ savings in fuel over 1 million miles.

There’s no way that number happens at 7 cents/kwh for electricity.

To get only 200,000$ savings in 1 million miles you need to assume like 16 cents/kwh which is more realistic.

…..and how are they going to guarantee 1 million miles ????

I don’t see it.

None of it adds up.

Ron M
Guest
Ron M

I assume there’s also significant savings in maintenance brakes, exhaust, transmission, engines,

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

..and your fuel won’t turned to jelly at extremely low temperatures, though range in those conditions will be greatly reduced.
Test it over the Donner Pass, fully loaded, in the middle of Winter.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
Quoting from a U.S. Energy Information website: The price of power to industrial customers is generally close to the wholesale price of electricity. In 2016, the annual average price of electricity in the United States was 10.28¢ per kilowatthour (kWh). https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_factors_affecting_prices I don’t see how Tesla can sell electricity for 7¢/kWh unless it’s a loss leader. Perhaps the average price of electricity in the regions where they anticipate selling the Tesla Semi Truck is lower than the national average? Perhaps Tesla is planning on relying on a night-time price differential, and that most of the trucks will be recharging at… Read more »
CDAVIS
Guest
CDAVIS

@Pushmi-Pullyu said: “And please, nobody try to convince me that Tesla is going to lower electricity rates by using solar power farms…”
—————

Remote Net Metering:

“It allows renewable energy system owners with excess net metering credits to offset other electric accounts that are also in their name. The site or electric meter the solar system is connected to is called the Host Account, and the sites receiving the excess credits are the Satellite Accounts.”

source: https://nysolarmap.com/media/1091/commercialnysnetmeteringfaq.pdf

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
Is Tesla going to build huge, extensive solar farms in multiple locations to offset the amount of electricity they are getting from the grid to power the Megachargers? Well, let’s look at what Tesla has done with its Supercharger network, which Tesla originally touted as being solar powered. In the years since Tesla started building Superchargers, has it built any solar farms to offset the power? No, it’s merely put up a few solar roofs over a few Supercharger stations; roofs which if my “napkin math” is correct, provide at most 1-2% of the power those particular Supercharger stations use,… Read more »
CDAVIS
Guest
CDAVIS
@Pushmi-Pullyusaid: “If the cost/benefit ratio isn’t sufficient for Tesla to power Superchargers that way, it certainly won’t be sufficient for the much higher power demand from Megachargers!” ——– Remote Net Metering will also be apppied to Tesla Superchargers… Think of Tesla building several very large solar farms… each solar farm tied to a particular grid region: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_U.S._power_transmission_grid Then apply the concept of Remote Net Metering to that. Sometime in not too distant future Tesla will start announcing these regional Tesla solar farms. It’s something Tesla has had planned to do for a long while and one of the reasons why… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

CDAVIS said:

“Sometime in not too distant future Tesla will start announcing these regional Tesla solar farms. It’s something Tesla has had planned to do for a long while and one of the reasons why the SolarCity acquisition was important to Musk… its part of the bigger picture…”

That’s an interesting and very positive scenario. Here’s hoping you’re right!

And thank you for detailing the scenario. I hadn’t seen that before …and I’m kicking myself for not seeing the possibility!

Ben
Guest
Ben
“Tesla says its Semi has a drag coefficient better than that of the Bugatti Chiron” Does Tesla think we are all stupid??? The Chiron produces a massive amount of downforce, just like a F1 car, downforce produces lots of drag. If an F1 car would be a cube it would actually produce less drag than they do now. Good aerodynamics is not the same as low drag. It depends on what you want to do with the car. Comparing a semi with a sportscar is simply stupid. As well the semis surface is much larger. Again and again Musk sells… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“…a massive amount of downforce, just like a F1 car, downforce produces lots of drag.”

You’re claiming that F1 race cars are deliberately designed to have a lot of drag?

Let’s say I’m highly skeptical, to say the least. Please link to an authoritative article or web page that explains why downforce produces “a lot of” drag.

I don’t think we’re going to agree on the definition of “a lot of” here. My guess is that the percentage of total drag is going to be more like “just a little”.

Another Euro point of view
Guest
Another Euro point of view

Ben is correct, super cars have aerodynamic devices that generates huge down forces as to keep them on the roads while turning at high speed or simply preventing them from taking off on a straight line. Those devices generates lots of drag so that for example a Fiat 500 has a much better wind penetration performances than a F1 for example.

Doggydogworld
Guest
Doggydogworld

Even my Elise is designed for downforce, at great cost to Cd.

Many years ago Chaparral put giant suction fans on their 2J race car to create a partial vacuum underneath. Horrible for drag but it could out-corner everything. Quickly banned…..
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-racing/motorsports/10-banned-race-cars9.htm

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
Thanks to those who responded! I spent some time Googling the question, still found no answer expressing downforce drag in terms of a fraction or percentage of total drag. What I do see is lots of discussion of how much variance there is in the downforce to drag ratio provided by different modifications, and how F1 rules severely limit the amount of downforce that aerodynamics can provide. Those rules may drive up the amount of drag that is caused by downforce, but so far as I know there’s no reason the Bugatti Chiron or any other production car would be… Read more »
Doggydogworld
Guest
Doggydogworld
This wiki page has Cd for a bunch of cars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient F1 is 0.7 to 1.1, depending on downforce settings (adjusted to suit each track). As a recovering aero engineer, I remember the main determinant of a wing’s lift/drag ratio is the Aspect Ratio (AR). AR is the wing’s total width (tip to tip) divided by chord length (leading edge to trailing edge). Sailplanes have incredibly long, skinny wings with AR up to 50. Car wings are have low AR (2-4) and poor L/D ratios. Other downforce devices, such as rear diffusers, are even draggier than wings. Race cars also… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Doggydogworld said:

“Race cars also use lots of airflow for cooling, another factor leading to poor Cd.”

Yeah, that was one of the points I saw made when I was Googling the subject; that race cars need lots of air flowing thru the car for cooling, which limits how “slippery” their aerodynamics can be. That’s not directly related to downforce drag, though.

Interesting discussion, thanks Doggy!

Ben
Guest
Ben
Yes. Only that claiming might not be the correct word, as this is the truth. Today it is not possible to produce downforce without creating lots of drag. Downforce (of diffusors and spoilers) enhances sideways friction of your tires by putting more “weight” (force) on them, which enables you to go much much faster through slow (time consuming) curves and enhances stability and safety, but of course you loose some time and efficiency on straights. Most sportscars could drive upside-down on the ceiling of a tunnel at more than 100mph without falling down to get an impression. Cars with low… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Okay, in the absence of any authoritative force telling us what fraction of an F1 race car’s total drag is due to downforce, let’s just apply a little basic science and common sense:

Downforce is trading off forward speed for negative lift, in the same way that an airplane’s wing trades off forward speed for positive lift.

And okay, looked at that way, it’s obvious that’s going to create a significant amount of drag… and that my assertion upstream that you can get a lot of downforce with “just a little” drag, is flat wrong.

Mea culpa.

Another Euro point of view
Guest
Another Euro point of view
“If i hate something than it is manipulating people” If there is something about Musk is that anyone with a bit of knowledge knows as he is BSing people. You just demonstrated it with that silly drag comparison issue. I found it out being an accountant and having to stand his BS by doing exactly the same thing but on financial aspects (boasting a 25% gross margin as being about the best in that industry but failing to mention that he choose to calculate “his” gross margin by including a fraction of the costs others do). I have little trust… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
I’m not a “financial guy” so my understanding of such matters is limited, but if I understand what you’re saying, your viewpoint is that Tesla is being dishonest in its accounting because it’s using non-GAAP accounting techniques. Well, others say that GAAP rules are not designed for companies like Tesla, which are experiencing rapid growth. So at best, “Another Euro…”, you appear to be presenting your opinion as fact. At worst… you’re simply wrong. Here’s another viewpoint: Last FY, Tesla spent ~$3B on property, plant and equipment (almost doubling it over the prior year), including $1.5B on construction in progress… Read more »
KumarP
Guest
KumarP

Well yours truly IS an accountant and I can tell you that for Tesla to not be adhering to GAAP and getting away with it would be absolutely ridiculous to conceive of. They are a going concern. There is no reason for them to do that, and with so many wanting to take them down, there is no way they would get away with it.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“…for Tesla to not be adhering to GAAP and getting away with it would be absolutely ridiculous to conceive of.”

So, you’re saying it’s inconceivable? …or should I say “incontheivable”? /snark

I’ll skip the obvious Inigo Montoya retort, and quote Shakespeare:

“There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

See, for example: “Elon Musk Does Not Accept Your Accounting Principles”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/07/tesla_non_gaap_accounting_profit_or_not.html

Note that article is from 2013; Tesla has moved closer to using GAAP accounting since then, but still uses some non-GAAP accounting methods.

CDAVIS
Guest
CDAVIS

@Ben said: “Tesla says its Semi has a drag coefficient better than that of the Bugatti Chiron”…”Does Tesla think we are all stupid??? The Chiron produces a massive amount of downforce, just like a F1 car, downforce produces lots of drag…”
——–

Sounds like you may not be familiar with the term “coefficient”; it’s an algebraic multiplier variable.

Also, regarding “downforce”, that is determined by the airfoil(S) design dynamics… in theory the Tesla Semi could be designed to have an upward-force that increases the faster the truck goes… to the point of being a flying Tesla Semi.

darth
Guest
darth

With this much battery, this platform would be a great start for an electric firetruck. Firefighters love acceleration and need it for emergency driving. Firetrucks typically have to drive very fast, but short responses and then must be able to sit on a scene applying power and running pumps for hours. This technology platform could totally do that, just not in a semi-tractor form factor. Just a conventional box-on-frame truck chassis.

Regen would save on brakes, which firetrucks eat through. Not having the very loud diesel engine operating on scene for hours would save a lot of hearing loss.

John
Guest
John

@ darth, added to not having to idle for long periods of time on scene in pump mode is the diesel emissions that will no longer be spewed into the faces of the firefighters. Diesel emissions are highly cancerous as evidenced by the high cancer rates in firefighters. And never mind the insanely loud noise while engines operate in pump mode. It will be an amazing day when fire engines go purely electric..

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Hmmm, well I’m not so sure that a BEV fire truck would carry sufficient stored energy to run fire hose pumps for hours. It might need an auxiliary gas/diesel generator for that.

But otherwise, yeah it would be great to see a BEV fire truck put into service!

Bolt driver
Guest
Bolt driver
I think they are going to have to get a lot better at thermal management. Granted it’s fairly quick, but for how long? Going up a long grade say I70 from Denver to Eisenhower tunnel, that is a long time at high loads. Considering the current cars can only do a lap or two a Laguna seca prior to thermal protection kicking in I am skeptical. I laugh when they race a model S against something else expensive. It’s only 1/4 mile, let’s see how they stack up over 5 laps at road America? I would guess the model S… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
A Tesla Model S/X will overheat after a few/several minutes running at maximum speed, because the battery pack’s cooling system isn’t engineered to handle that kind of heat dump for long. From reports, something like 12 minutes is the maximum time before overheating forces the car into reduced power mode. For a Tesla Semi Truck to experience a similar overload from waste heat, the truck would have to be similarly laboring under a load much heavier than its cooling system was engineered to handle. Do you think that would happen just from driving up the grade on whatever public road… Read more »
BenG
Guest
BenG

Looks pretty sweet, but it’s inaccurate to say that long-range diesel semi’s are typically less than 500 mile range. Over-the-road diesel semi’s can easily go more than 1000 miles between fill-ups.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121225082948AAg6yIA

Another Euro point of view
Guest
Another Euro point of view

Yes but, as usual, bending reality a little helps.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

I once tried to research the answer to this question: What is the standard size of a diesel semi’s fuel tank(s)?

I found there is no standard size. I don’t know what the average is, but you’re certainly correct to say that some of those trucks can go more than 1000 miles without filling.

Elon’s comments certainly seem to suggest that there is a standard size for diesel semi fuel tanks, and that is simply wrong. As usual, when Elon is dishing out hype, it’s best to take it with more than a pinch of salt.

DJ
Guest
DJ

I think many people in correctly noting Tesla’s hype forget what the world would be like without Musk. He constantly raises the bar (and fails to meet it short term).

Do you naysayers think that ANY of the big car companies would be scheduling multiple EVs if Musk hadn’t credibly raised the bar? I’d bet not a single one. Nissan would be strolling along on a ten year horizon. The rest would be nowhere.

Let’s give credit for the amazing impact Tesla has had on a fossilized industry.

DJ
Guest
DJ
Uhm, you need to get a username that isn’t already in use! I think the semi could likely work out well but as usual their fiscal justification just isn’t right. Existing trucks using similar aerodynamic features are already getting MPG in the double digits. So let’s just use 10MPG. At 60k miles a year that is 6,000 gallons and at the US average of $2.80/gallon that’s $16,800 a year for fuel costs yet the electric semi will somehow save you $14k a year which means the electricity costs you only $2,800 a year. In reality even if we use the… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

DJ (the original DJ, I think) said:

“Existing trucks using similar aerodynamic features are already getting MPG in the double digits. So let’s just use 10MPG.”

Fleet operators are going to be comparing Tesla’s claims to the average for their existing fleet, not comparing Tesla’s claims to some experimental high-MPG diesel semi that no commercial operator is using.

So let’s use the actual reported real-world average for newer diesel semis pulling a load down the highway, which is 6.5 MPG.

But I can certainly see why a serial Tesla hating FUDSter would want to use 10 MPG for diesel semi trucks!

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

Looks like Tesla did in fact use 7 cents/kwh for their numbers. Its in screen shots of the Tesla presentation over at electric in latest article.

I’d like to know how Tesla can rationalize that.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

looks like national average price for industrial electricity really is 7 cents/kwh

https://www.rockymountainpower.net/about/rar/ipc.html

ffbj
Guest
ffbj
JyChevyVolt
Guest
JyChevyVolt

Game, set, match!

Congratulations Tesla.

Nix
Guest
Nix

holy crap. If Walmart’s test fleet plays out, and Walmart goes to all Tesla truck for their fleet, that is game set match. Other retailers will have to follow to stay competitive.

The battle for second place truck manufacturer will hing on who is the first current diesel truck company who adopts the Megacharger standard and joins Tesla to build out the Megacharger network and install Tesla Semi drivetrains in their trucks instead of buying their engines from Cummins or CAT, etc.

Jason
Guest
Jason
Unfortunately I think history will repeat and Tesla will end up being the only ones using Megachargers. We already have electric buses, how do they charge? We already seen traditional manufacturers not using Tesla Super Chargers, even though that would seem to make a lot of sense. Now if Tesla was to package their drive train only, and let integrators install it into their own designs, that would be a game changer as well. The OP who suggested fire trucks could benefit by electric would be able to do that. Virtually every vehicle could be adapted if even just one… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

1. EV buses don’t all charge using the same system. Proterra has 500 kW bus chargers in use; those are configured with a blade which slides up and down on a pole, inserting itself into the top of the bus.

Tesla’s picture for charging its BEV Semi Truck shows a charging station that looks like a standard Supercharger, with a flexible charging cable. I can only guess Tesla is planning on some pretty high level voltage for charging, if they are gonna use a flexible cable instead of a sliding arm like Proterra’s setup.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

2. Auto makers are not going to all use the same EV powertrain, any more than they all use the same ICE powertrain.

Auto makers will compete with different, and proprietary, EV powertrains, just like they currently compete with different, and proprietary, ICE powertrains.

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

Looks like teslarati has a photo and some calcs of the charging port. 1 Mw of power roughly

BenG
Guest
BenG

As one might expect from the name Megacharger. 😀

georgeS
Guest
georgeS

@BenG

My Dah

Ocean Railroader
Guest
Ocean Railroader

I really hope these Tesla trucks clean up what it’s like to have a house along a freeway. Someone I knew had a house by a six lane wide freeway and the big rigs made the most noise and it always smelled like a gas station near by.

The engine noises from the big rigs was something you could hear a 1000 feet away from the highway.

Jason
Guest
Jason

Once again Tesla wows is with real products, production intent designs. No BS concepts that will never get made, no camouflage to obscure their design, just a few vehicles that they are actually taking reservations for and most likely, like Model 3, will see production basically the same as shown. Such a refreshing change from all the fluff and hocus pocus other manufacturers go through.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu
What Tesla showed Thursday nite was not a production intent prototype, even though it was apparently presented that way. As I predicted, it was just a concept truck, not a production ready prototype. Note that Tesla is claiming to use sliding panels at the back of the tractor, to close off the gap between cab and trailer. Such a system of sliding panels is not present on the concept truck, and Tesla did not demonstrate that system in operation. Looks to me like that’s a “work in progress”, which may or may not appear if Tesla actually puts a BEV… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

…or not!

I just saw a segment on the CBS news that showed a Tesla semi turning — an actual video not CGI animation — and it showed a hinged panel on the side of the truck that swung out to allow the truck to turn.

So, not a series of sliding panels, but a single swinging panel on each side. I wonder what’s going on with the gap at the top? I don’t see any panel moving up there, altho of course there certainly could be one that can’t be seen from the ground.

JyChevyVolt
Guest
JyChevyVolt

For the first time ever, I believed everything Elon said, except for the convoy none sense.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Long-haul truckers can achieve significant fuel savings by drafting behind another large truck.

Why do you think that big-rig truckers often travel in closely spaced convoys? It’s not for the social interaction!

‘Cause we got a mighty convoy
Rockin’ through the night
Yeah, we got a mighty convoy
Ain’t she a beautiful sight
C’mon and join our Convoy
Ain’t nothin’ gonna get in our way
We gonna roll this truckin’ convoy
‘Cross the USA
Convoy…
Convoy…

— “Convoy” by C.W. McCall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVh179oXFao

cros13
Guest
cros13

Platooning has been done manually by many truck drivers for years and autonomous platooning is being tested by many HGV manufacturers. Not nonsense at all.

https://www.eutruckplatooning.com/About/default.aspx

ModernMarvelFan
Guest
ModernMarvelFan

Tesla should make enough Semi for its own fleet use to transport battery and cars between Fremont and Reno.

Now, with that low cost of operation, maybe it can start a trucking service as well.

Mister G
Guest
Mister G

And to deliver new cars to buyers.
And to provide road service…the sky is the limit
GO TESLA GO DESTROY DIRTY GAS GUZZLERS

Taser54
Guest
Taser54

Looks like it’ll be hard to turn with the tractor flush against the trailer.

Four Electrics
Guest
Four Electrics

I don’t believe the range number for a second. This truck has about 5x the frontal area of a Model S. Rest assured the range number is a best case convoy (three truck) number.

That said, I hate diesels, and really hope this truck succeeds. Fuel cell from practically free solar electrolysis is still the end game here, in my view.

Four Electrics
Guest
Four Electrics

Interesting to see Tesla take a page from Nikola’s playbook by promising cheap fuel from solar. The marginal cost of battery storage is quite high, and refueling so slow, that solar to hydrogen will win that game.

Forsberg
Guest

Fleet owners will not compare with diesel, but with hybrid. End of story.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland
As I mentioned in the Pioneer 500 kw ccs jack article, I’m a bit disappointed that the Tesla Semi will have no ‘remote cooling’ for fast charging the battery. The advantages of ‘remote cooling’ would be: 1). Smaller, cooler operation of charging cable. 2). No huge refrigeration ‘plant’ necessary in the cab since the ‘chilled water plant’ is back at the corral. The on-board cooler will only be required to be large enough to cool the battery while it is in use (discharging). 3). Instead of taking a large fraction of juice to provide the overhead to cool the quickly… Read more »