Tesla Owners Give First Impressions On Chevrolet Bolt EV After First Hand Look – Video

NOV 3 2016 BY JAY COLE 133

What do Tesla Model S owners think of the new 238 mile 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV, priced from $37,495?

On the occasion of Motor Trend having short-listed both of the all-electric vehicles as finalists for the 2017 Car of the Year Award, they took a brand new, upcoming Bolt EV to the Orange County Tesla Club faithful to get their honest opinions.

Tesla Model S owners get the chance to check out the Chevrolet Bolt EV by Motor Trend

Tesla Model S owners get the chance to check out the Chevrolet Bolt EV via Motor Trend

And for the most part (as one would expect from EV drivers) Tesla owners were very gracious, complimenting the car’s unexpected regenerative braking abilities, back-seat space; quite often saying they preferred the package over the current Nissan LEAF and Chevrolet Volt.

As for the quibbles, the lack of built-in GPS was considered a pain, and the inability to hold certain regen settings was noted as a drawback.

“It felt like a very high end vehicle for a package for around thirty grand.   If I was in the market…when I  I bought my Model S – I needed an EV that needed over 200 miles.  I definitely would been looking towards a Bolt, as compared to spending the money for a Tesla.”

Not unexpectedly, comparisons to the Tesla Model 3 (expected to be released in the second half of 2017) were also made, as the Bolt EV will be in direct competition with that model.

“I think it will be appealing to different buyers.  It’s the same amount of money, but the buyers that are looking to buy a Model 3 are looking to get it because ‘oh yeah, it’s a Tesla’ – well Tesla now is more of a luxury brand.”

And while we noticed that all the Model S owners were quite loyal to the brand, and personally weren’t considering trading in their Teslas for a Chevy any time soon, the common theme seemed to be that they knew of a family member or friend considering an EV, or even a Model 3 purchase in the future – to which they would now also suggest the Chevy Bolt EV as a contender

so GM has to be fairly happy with that result.

Also of interest:  Read up on Motor Trend’s interaction with Tesla brass, including Tesla’s chief designer Franz von Holzhausen, at the company’s Hawthorne Design Studio after having brought some Chevrolet Bolts to their front door.

Says Motor Trends Kim Reynolds:

“OK, we’re going to do it,” I insisted. “We’re going to drive into the Tesla Design Studio next to SpaceX, park the two Bolts at Supercharger stations, and see what happens.”

Spoiler: it was a positive reaction.   (Hat tip to Miggy!)

 

 

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133 Comments on "Tesla Owners Give First Impressions On Chevrolet Bolt EV After First Hand Look – Video"

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It’s a nice second car for Tesla owners 😀

No gps at all or as premium package

I find that the on-board GPS units to be uniformly terrible– the only one I’ve seen that I like is the one in the Tesla.

I will happily mount my phone in a dash mount and use it instead. Generally bluetooth integration of my phone makes for the best Nav system, in my opinion.

Agreed. I use Waze instead of the nav system in the Leaf.

The nav in the Leaf is as good as no nav at all.

I was of the same opinion on in car nav, but I have to say the Toyota Mirai nav is not bad. Of course, Google maps is still better, but the Mirai nav is worth its weight.

If I use the GPS-function of my S4 for a longer period of time, it starts to overheat and eventually shuts down.
For work I travel into remote areas of the US(NM, AZ, upstate NY,…), where I often don’t have a cell signal(Verizon). No signal – no GPS.
My 10 year old Garmin has never left me stranded and I still get free map updates.
In this day and age, every car should come with a GPS for driver’s safety. If you prefer the GPS of your phone or Waze, they work, when you link it to the entertainment system.

+1

Its an option, but with Apple car play and Android Auto, you can use the nav from those.

Car play only allows apple maps which sucks, google is far better, but most people use Waze…But it requires a fully function cell phone and data…If your phone is stolen or broken you’re SOL…

“If your phone is stolen or broken you’re SOL…”

SOL? How about a map?

DJ

And….? I prefer the phone actually. Not having to stop to put in an address is very nice 🙂

I don’t really see the need with the car play. Why would I want to have to pay to update maps…

I agree. Let me use my phone.

iPhone is better as a GPS anyway

SparkEV-Fiat500-Leased - M3 Reserved - Bolt- TBD

Onboard GPS is such a throwback; just like auto hotspots

Android Auto is the key and GM has it; beautiful screen to use for it nav is always up to date. Unlike my Infiniti Nav which they want $199 yearly to update –SMH

No GPS navigation or no GPS period? It should have GPS at least for OnStar functionality…

There must be some GPS capability. My ’17 Volt doesn’t have GPS package (yeah, I ordered it) but can still determine if I am at my “home” to enable 12a charging automatically. I do admit this is a mystery to me.

I agree – although the GPS on my car is pretty much useless (because it is so hard to program destinations), it is useful in terms of letting me know what my safety range is to get home. When you actually are successful at programming a destination and then you save that destination (if you go there often)- it works pretty well as a range guide.

It’s the OnStar. My Volt didn’t have the Nav but from using OnStar I figured out it has GPS built in.

Have you ever heard of Google Maps it is far superior to any onboard GPS. Also, the Bolt will have Android Auto and Apple Carplay. Onboard GPS is old school. I’m glad it doesn’t have it

GM Bolt has to take some market share from Tesla Model 3 before it becomes available. It will be interesting to see if they can pull some of the Model 3 preorders out from under Elons rug.

It’s not a question of if, but how much. At worst, it’ll be 25% if almost all of Bolt goes to Tesla 3 reservation holders as only 100K Bolt will be made before Tesla 3 is out. But I suspect it’ll be far less, maybe 10% (40K) at worst, most likely far less.

GM can’t handle 25% of the Model III pre-orders, they lack battery production channels.

By the time the III comes out LG Chem will have a good amount more production capacity that they do now. Between the new Nanjing plant and the upcoming plant in Poland, LG Chem is adding a great deal of capacity.

LG Chem is also adding new customers.

LG’s battery supply “pie” may be getting larger, but that doesn’t help GM if it has to share that pie with more people!

We’ll know GM is serious about ramping up Bolt production if and when they start building their own high-capacity battery factories. And not before.

That’s insane! GM builds cars, not battery cells. Cells are and will continue to be a commodity, with low margins.

GM is doing it right. Partnering with experienced suppliers, leveraging R&D, pushing capital expenses down to the supplier, and avoiding potential warranty exposure.

If a better battery partner emerges or technology changes, GM can turn on a dime. Not so if you bring everything in-house.

GM is the big dog for LG Chem. The other orders take a back seat to what GM wants. Do you really think LG is going to tell GM, “No, we can’t get you 10,000 extra packs, we need to dedicate a production line to Faraday packs. They might sell as many as 2,000 cars next year!”
If GM could sell 40,000 Bolts next year, LG Chem will build the packs. I just don’t think GM will be able to find 40k buyers for the Bolt at $37.5k or more.

If GM goes to LG next year and wants more batteries faster, LG will certainly agree — for a price.

LG will say “sure, we can add more shifts, hire more employees just for you, install more equipment. But not for $145 per kWh. We need $150 per kWh, and we need another year added to our contract at that price”

And if GM still has huge sales at close to full price without having to throw money on the hood, they will pay what LG asks.

If by next summer, GM is throwing $3000 dollar consumer incentives on the hood to clear inventory, like they did previously with the Volt, GM won’t increase production.

Incentives next July/August will be the key to the answer to all of our armchair CEO’ing.

Why do so many people assume that LG Chem won’t expand supply to meet demand? I don’t see the business case for them to lag demand.

Tesla will be 2 years behind, and given their track record of being late, most likely 3 years behind. GM announced they can make 50K cars per year, which is 100K in 2 years. But even at 30K for 3 years, that’s close to 100K cars. Both scenarios are 25% of 400K reservations.

Of course, the reality also depend on demand. Tesla is considered a premium brand, like BMW and Mercedes while Chevy is, well, Chevy. People who buy BMW generally don’t go for Chevy of similar form if prices are the same.

It might be different for EV as Chevy has proven to have the best EV engineering, but given how Tesla 3 has supercharger hype, I don’t think too many will choose Bolt over Tesla 3.

SparkEV said:

“GM announced they can make 50K cars per year, which is 100K in 2 years.”

100k Bolts in a year? Where are they gonna get the batteries? The only way GM is gonna do that within 2 years is:

1. Build them without any battery pack

2. Buy batteries from some supplier other than LG Chem, and pay a lot more… thus making the Bolt non-profitable.

The chances of this happening are slim and none.

You misread. Two years of production at 50k per year is 100k total cars.

PuPu, you’re so blinded by Tesla that you can’t read. GM publicly said they could build 50K with demand, which is 2 years for 100K.

With Tesla delay, 3 could be 3 years behind. GM confirmed 30K/yr as target, which is 90K (25% of 360K).

Instead of making up stuff, you should read and base it on what’s known, namely the announcement from GM. Homework: what did I say about the likelihood of 25% going to Bolt happening?

The guy is repeatedly wrong.

And he is so super-stuck on himself that it doesn’t mitigate his on-going lies, except of course when, for instance he constantly drops ‘People in the KNOW about the Second Law of Thermodynamics’ to sound important, and then I quote the exact ‘law’ and then ask him a simple everyday homeowner type question about it, and he’s dead silent.

But besides that, remember “Impossible for a CHEVY to have a 60 kwh battery” over and over again – just like the hundreds of comments now regarding GM can’t possibly even make 30,000 bolts a year since

1). They don’t want to make them (!!!!!)

2). There’s a world wide shortage of batteries, (even though there are minimally used factories for them around).

The question is how many will return the lease Bolt and walk away for model 3 once is available.

Those lease return Bolt numbers will really tell on model 3 production ramp up into 2020. Could really boost Tesla demand as they get up to full production capacity.

The smartest thing GM could do (strategically) right now would be to have a true Model 3 competitor waiting to come out in late 2018; All the specs. of the Model 3 only “newer and better”, including Model 3 type styling.

That said, if GM were to offer a PHEV CUV it would probably sell in far greater numbers than the Model 3.

Hey, its better than a 100% gasoline Nissan “E-Power” Concept Vehicle.

If this is Ghosn’s view of the future, he’s lost interest in EV’s. Too bad for a company that soon will lose its ‘top of the heap’ status.

I agree the Bolt will impact “current” model 3 reservations. By how much will greatly depend on how well received the Bolt becomes and how good the lease offers are on the Bolt. IMO, a Chevy Bolt lease price over $600/mo won’t have a large impact on current Model 3 reservations. If GM financing starts passing the federal tax credit to the customer and removes the artificial $5,800 markup on US customers (vs. Canada http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-ev-canada-priced-42795/ ) then the Bolt lease price could prove interesting enough to impact current Model 3 reservations.

SparkEV-Fiat500-Leased - M3 Reserved - Bolt- TBD

I doubt Bolt leases will come even close to our Spark Lease — Zero down and $90/month on 36month 12k year lease — that doesn’t even count the California credit and local credits.

The RVs on all these leases are crazy.

if all these BEVs do is take market share from one another, then they are all going to fail. what is needed is to expand the market, and not just divide the existing ev enthusiast niche.

I don’t think the Bolt will do anything measurable to the Model 3. There is already so many deposits and so much demand on the sidelines for III, that it really can’t do much.

I think the Bolt will have a huge impact on Leaf, i3, Soul EV and others.

I agree. The Bolt and Model III will coexist nicely. However, the Bolt will make the others irrelevant at their current price point. It will be impossible to sell those cars without a significant drop in MSRP. So I wonder what Kia/VW/Ford/etc will do – will they find it better to sell a $15k/~100 mile commuter, or a $30k/~200 Bolt competitor?

As for Nissan, we have lots of hints / evidence that they will compete with the Bolt head-on, including a direct quote from the CEO. The only question left is when the Leaf 2.0 will arrive. In the meantime, expect continued fire sales of the current Leaf.

Yep. And while everyone here seems to be focusing on the GPS, don’t forget that the Bolt is 2WD. Snow country (granted, a small portion of the car buying public) generally opts for AWD vehicles when possible

Global warming will fix that in a few years, just you wait……

global warming could actually make snowfall *worse*. rising global temperatures puts more moisture in the atmosphere. many areas given to snowfall would not likely see enough temperature rise to get temperatures above freezing. so, with more moisture in the air, those areas could see a lot more snow.

you can’t judge “global warming” by looking at the weather that you can see from your window. that’s why it was so foolish when oklahoma senator jim imhoff had an assistant bring a ball of snow into the chamber of the US senate from snow that had fallen in washington dc as “proof” of his argument that there was no global warming. global warming could have been a contributing factor as to why there was so much snow there at the time.

I don’t know if I agree with “small portion” since 33 out of 50 states average double digit inches of snow per year.

We get quite a bit of snow in Michigan, but FWD has always worked well, and I’ve never needed AWD. However RWD is no fun. W/the Bolt EV, I’m good, but w/the Model 3, I may have to opt for AWD :/

awd is probably helpful if you live in a place where the roads are never plowed. that doesn’t apply to the majority of drivers, though…at least not in the US.

Even if they plow the roads, that doesn’t happen instantaneously. It takes them time to make the rounds.

you can actually get decent traction on fresh snow.

SparkEV-Fiat500-Leased - M3 Reserved - Bolt- TBD

Most snow drivers do quite well with FWD only; it’s those crazy sunbelt transplants that have no idea of driving in weather that is insane. (Michigander transplant myself)

Here in San Diego, when it rains — it’s deadly down here. Crazy Tesla and BMW RWD hydroplaning across three lanes.

I have had 2 FWD cars as my daily driver for the past 10 years. A RAV4 (don’t ask) and a Volt. Whenever we get more than 3 or 4 inches of snow I like to go out and take a drive looking for good photos and just to enjoy the weather and help push cars that get stuck. I high centered my Toyota once and needed a hand, but that was in the DC Snowmageddon snow storm of 2010. FWD is excellent in relatively deep snow, and fair on icey roads.
AWD is better but you don’t need it to get around safely. I grew up on the Hi Line of Montana so I have driven a bit more than most on snow and ice, but not that much more.

AWD and the Supercharger network are why I have a model 3 reservation. If the Bolt had one of those two, it would be enough for me to get one.

I agree most, don’t need AWD, but some of us do and it’s a deal killer if not available. Overall though, the Bolt is shaping up to be a pretty sweet option for those looking to buy in the next year.

Brian said:

“…the Bolt will make the others irrelevant at their current price point.”

Not unless GM makes enough to satisfy the market for those other cars, and we know that GM plans to make only “>30k” cars in the first year of production.

No way is that going to be sufficient for everyone who wanted a Bolt or a Leaf or an i3. Especially not the Leaf on the international market!

As I’ve said, it will be interesting to see if GM ramps up production in future years. But unless GM moves to build their own high-capacity batter factories, I don’t see production ramping up that much. It’s not like GM is LG Chem’s only customer, and from publicly available info, it looks like LG simply isn’t ramping up production that fast, despite all their big talk.

Did you mean to say “less than 30K”, because you have the “greater than” symbol.

Either way, that number is not set in stone, just a ballpark estimate of what GM thinks the market will bear.

It appears you have a rosier view of the market, and it may be rosy, but I’m going to stay conservative with a prediction of 22K takers in the first year.

The quote, as I recall from a GM executive, was “>30k”. Greater than, not less than. I interpret that as “not much more than 30k”, but of course you may choose to interpret it differently.

Previously, it was rumored that a GM supplier had said GM contracted for parts for 25k-30k Bolts. The “>30” quote would appear to be close to that, if we assume it means “not much more than 30k”. So that’s my assumption. We’ll have to wait and see if I’m correct.

I don’t see GM telling its suppliers 25-30k (presuming that rumor was true), and then trying to ramp up to 50k in the same production year. I’m no business expert, but that doesn’t appear to be a plausible scenario.

I don’t think anyone believes that GM will be sold out of Bolts for months while saying, “Oh well, we said we only wanted to sell 30k Bolts this year, so that’s that.”

GM [i]thinks[/i] that they will sell 30k Bolts in 2017. I’m sure they would be happy to have the number go higher.

I believe the number won’t be much higher than 30k, for reasons already stated. It really puzzles me that people refuse to accept the reality that GM has made choices which impose hard limits on Bolt production. The most obvious limitation is the number of batteries it has contracted with LG Chem to supply, and LG makes delivery contracts two years in advance. It’s not that it’s impossible for GM to break out of those limits; it’s that doing so would make the Bolt much more expensive. I just don’t see GM deciding to sell the Bolt at a loss. Do you? In fact, I think it’s a much more likely scenario that GM will wind up producing significantly less than 30k Bolts, because it’s depending on a spanking new automotive supplier for the EV powertrain; LG Electronics’ new automotive division. All the GM fans say “Well, but the powertrain is designed by GM.” Probably true, but GM isn’t in control of production. LG Electronics is. What are the odds that this new supplier will not have the sort of problems that every new manufacturer has? I certainly would love to think that GM will ramp up Bolt production quickly.… Read more »

While I appreciate healthy skepticism, I find it bizarre that the standard for GM is that they can only make 30k because of all the contracts they have with various suppliers – which are presumed to be written in stone, and would be outlandishly expensive (with a distorted scale of cost-to-profit) to increase.

Meanwhile, the standard that Tesla is held to is, “Well, Elon said they’d make 500,000 in the first two years, so every part of their supply chain will obviously be ready to hit that target, and we don’t need to worry about any contracts or such.”

That’s why Musk loves his cult members.

First of all, I don’t think all 373k reservations would be sold even without the Bolt, some of them are probably just-in-case reservations because people expect a long wait.
At the same time, I do think that some model 3 reservations has been cancelled because of the Bolt. Bolt is here before the 3 and for some people the Bolt is just a better fit because of the hatchback.
My guess is that about half of the 373k reservations will go through which isn’t bad in itself and then of course many more will order the car when it’s finally released.

Considering the rate of cancellation of Model ≡ reservations only as an isolated factor is pretty irrelevant. The relevant question is net reservations. So long as new reservations keep coming in as fast or faster than old ones are cancelled, there’s no downside there for Tesla.

* * * * *

I saw it said once that the rate of cancellation on Model S reservations was 25%. It’s certainly possible that the cancellation rate of M≡ reservations will be higher, considering the extended wait; it’s also possible it won’t be.

Provocative prediction, but… Tesla didn’t stop taking reservations after the first month, and a majority of reservations come from existing Tesla owners. Then there’s th quotient of employee reservations. One prediction based off analysis of the Model X production and cash position of all vehicle reservations in queue is that the Model III reservations are at 600,000 globally. Also, the Bolt is a subcompact, and the Model III is a compact. These size numbers are important. The Spark EV (a city car) is 27 inches different (in length) from the Chevrolet Bolt (a sub compact), and the Chevrolet Bolt is 20 inches different from the Tesla Model III (a compact), which is 11 inches different from the Tesla Model S ( a full-size). Having rented and driven various different-sized vehicles over the years, the Chevrolet Bolt is about the length of a Kia Soul, but shorter than a Nissan Leaf. It’s probably enough for a family with two small children, a couple, or a single person. I would not easily take it on road trips, and certainly not with teenagers. It isn’t something I would use on a business trip if traveling in a group. North American buyers like big… Read more »

“Also, the Bolt is a subcompact, and the Model III is a compact. These size numbers are important.”
——–

Semantics (and I don’t think even the correct ones). You do know that the Bolt EV has more passenger room than the Tesla Model S right? And the Model 3 is smaller than the Model S.

I think I recall seeing mention of that, the Bolt having more passenger volume but it seemed misleading. Headroom I’d believe instantly, it is a very tall vehicle (6 inches taller than a Model S), but the other dimensions: the Model S is 8 inches wider, and the wheelbase is 14 inches longer (legroom). Is it all passenger and a trivial trunk? The Model S is 2 1/2 feet longer than a Chevrolet Bolt.
LG Chem does not have more than 30,000 annual capacity for all GM BEV vehicles. That’s been discussed on comments here extensively. Tesla was figuring out adding battery suppliers years ago (remember the Samsung deal?), so like building factories, these things take time.
I’m pretty sure Elon and Tesla Motors would love for the GM Bolt to sell out, every year. In fact, I’d love it if the Bolt outsold the Cruze and its success was legendary. I think it is reasonable to expect that, but it all comes back to battery pack pricing. GM is focusing on the low end of the price scale, which is not what Tesla did to build maturity and market share.

You should take a look at the interior space of the two vehicles. The Bolt has equal or greater interior space in all dimensions except for width. The model S is long but it waste a lot of space.

“LG Chem does not have more than 30,000 annual capacity for all GM BEV vehicles. That’s been discussed on comments here extensively”
——————-
We have recent comments from LG (was even an article here) saying they could make batteries for 50K Bolt EVs if needed. I think they could expand even further, if push comes to shove.

“GM doesn’t have market dominance in pack production. VW Group is the only legacy manufacturer I’ve noticed who is pushing battery pack factory construction. Factories take a couple years to build”
—————

GM has been building battery packs since day 1 in their Brownstown factory. I’m glad the VW group is playing catch-up

Sure you can still jump into the queue but the hype is gone now. I doubt the reservations has increased very much since the last update as the queue is at least 2 years long with the 373k reservations. There might be a small boost after the next reveal though if they really deliver on the interior as they said they would.

The next reveal will be an interesting one regarding the reservation #’s. We will get a bunch of newcomers after the buzz, but some could drop their reservation based on what they see.

“Someone out there” said:

“I doubt the reservations has increased very much since the last update as the queue is at least 2 years long with the 373k reservations.”

Let us say, for the sake of argument, that Tesla has not taken a single new reservation since the reported ~373k.

The reason Tesla stopped advertising for new reservations is because they are sold out for so long that taking new reservations is pointless. Tesla doesn’t want potential customers to get ticked off due to an excessively long waiting time. (Well, that’s going to happen anyway. Let’s say Tesla doesn’t want to make the situation even worse.)

If, by some strange alignment of planets, against all probability, there are massive numbers of cancellations of Model ≡ reservations, that merely means Tesla will start advertising for more reservations again.

This fretting over cancellations of M≡ reservations seems to me to be worrying over nothing. It’s not rational.

“Can the Bolt, a $38,000 subcompact, steal market share from the $15,000-$18,000 ICE competitors? That’s the real question. Paying slightly more for a smaller, slower, less technologically advanced car is the gamble you’ve made on the global car market.”

The Bolt is Compact sized on the inside, so it is NOT smaller, and as far as slower, read the specs. Six and a half seconds to 60 mph is in “hot hatch” territory, None of those $15,000 to $18,000 cars even come close, or include Apple Carplay and Android Auto with a 10.2″ screen built in that can run your favorite phone map or other programs on screen, including voice control.

The Bolt will appeal to a different car buyer than the III. And it will be great when both are on sale!
I just hope that the Bolt is as well built as the Volt, and not built like other Chevy small cars like the old Aveo. The Volt and hopefully the Bolt could end up resuscitating the Chevy reputation when it comes to small cars.

I think the Cruze has done a good job of that as well.

“As for the quibbles, the lack of built-in GPS was considered a pain,

Well looks like I finally got my answer about whether the BoltEV uses topo maps to estimate battery charge remaining at your destination.

Looks like it doesn’t estimate charge remaining at your destination.

Oh well it’s not really meant for long distance trips anyway.

“I think it will be appealing to different buyers. It’s the same amount of money, but the buyers that are looking to buy a Model 3 are looking to get it because ‘oh yeah, it’s a Tesla’ – well Tesla now is more of a luxury brand.”
—————

I have a feeling us Model 3 reservation holders are going to be in for a big surprise regarding how expensive it’s going to be when we can finally order one. Yes, it will have more “cowbell”, but is it worth spending $1,000’s more?

Yes.

I think the only thing I’d spend thousands more on is more AER (and leather seats). I am a bit concerned about RWD only in Michigan winters. I’ve dealt with that before, and it’s not fun. Too bad I can get FWD. I may have to pay for AWD now.

The AP option, if the same as the Model S, is $8,000. Definitely not worth it in IMO. I think the standard AP is good enough for me. I don’t need the HEPA filters, or fancy LED lighting. I don’t need the air suspension. I may.. may.. opt for the winter package, and that’s simply because of the heated wiper & washer fluid nozzles, which I think would be handy. I don’t need a heated steering wheel. No high-fidelity sound for me, or high-speed charging update either.

I went from a FWD to a RWD when I bought my Tesla. The traction control is a whole lot more intelligent in an EV than an ICE. Something about not having lag response and being able to measure torque (spin) situations digitally instead of a net effect. The other considerations are it is almost perfectly smooth on the bottom, so you’re not going to get high-centered on packed in snow, plus the front to back weight distribution is ideal.

My local Tesla service center did some testing last winter. I’ve been able to climb icy hills in my RWD Model S which would have left me in the ditch in anything else, including a few pickups and SUVs I saw on said road.
My only advice is get snow tires if you can’t make the price jump to the “D” configuration. Blizzaks have been popular with the local club.
Speaking of which, you should track down the Michigan Tesla Club at teslamotorsclub.com and get their input on the roads.
I think Tesla has some tricks up their sleeves with the new glass, that subzero package may be mind-blowing.

Yes.

If money is no object, then why not get a Model S60 today? No need to wait for the Model 3.

That goes for the other “yes”-men too, 🙂

I have 🙂 The question is between these two.

hint: money is an object to moi.

Money is an object to nearly everyone. The question is, how much money does it take to matter? That is a question which different people will answer differently.

And I think you’re just pretending not to see the obvious, Kdawg. Do you really dispute that the potential market for the Model ≡ is bigger than the market for the Model S?

Do you really dispute that most car buyers are willing to spend thousands of dollars on options which make a car more expensive?

Just because the average buyer would (according to Elon’s estimation) be willing to upgrade his M≡ purchase from $35k to $42k, doesn’t mean he would be willing to upgrade it to something in the price range of, say, $75k-85k, for a modestly or moderately equipped Model S60 or S75.

i’m not going to comment on behalf of kdawg since he can do that himself, but my observation is that the model 3 is promoted as being “reasonably” priced by comparing the base price of a model 3 to the average selling price of cars these days. what is misleading about that is that people tend to not buy base cars. so while the model 3 is being promoted as a $35,000 car, the average price for which model 3’s actually sell is going to be a good $10,000 more than base price. it is easy to see how that can happen. options on a tesla tend to be expensive. so, by the time you have added a few “bells and whistles”, you’ve got a car in the mid $40,000 range. from the last rendering that i saw of the interior of the tesla model 3, that doesn’t look like a $45,000 car to me. but then, the bmw i3 doesn’t look like a $45,000 car to me either… i think a lot of the depositors are thinking that they are going to get a $27,500 car after accounting for the tax credit. it is masterful marketing by tesla, which… Read more »

Pretty much what I was going to say. Everyone likes to coo about all the features the Model 3 will have, but if you buy all those, you are not spending only $35K.

I think the options are over-priced, personally. The “affordable” Model 3, quickly becomes un-affordable. I don’t know how many of the ~400K reservation holders know this. I think many just saw a “Tesla for $35k”. What happens when they find out after waiting 2 years that they didn’t select enough over-priced options, that they will have to wait another year before their car is built?

You guys act like this is any different than how every single other car everywhere in the world is sold.

Do you seriously think that people think the MSRP number that car makers advertise is what they will actually pay once options are added?

You sound like somebody who has only bought used cars all your life (not that there is anything wrong with that). Used cars are priced like that, not new cars.

i suggest that you pay closer attention to many of the posts on this forum about the tesla model 3. to me it appears that many people are operating on the perspective that they are going to get a $35,000 car.

what makes the model 3 different from your typical car is that you don’t know exactly what you are going to get with the model 3. so you can only speculate. but a lot of people seem to be speculating that they are going to buy a $35,000 car.

My 2014 ELR has ZERO options.
My 2012 replacement VOLT has every single factory option plus a few add ons, but another 2012 volt I WOULD have bought had I not had $100 disagreement with the used car boss, also had zero options.

Musk has stated the initial ‘3’, while not ‘signature’ will be fully optioned, and therefore, presumably a stripped ‘3’ will be years down the line.

Yes

I don’t know, but “don’t fear the reaper”.

Anyone wonder what a “hot-hatch” version of a Bolt could look/perform like?

I’d take mine in black!

It already is a “hot hatch” with 6.5 seconds 0-60 mph.

It has no GPS?
Ever hear of a paper map? Or knowing where you are going before leaving? It is called “planning”.

@Some Guy

It’s 190 miles to the next charger and you are in you are in your new BoltEV making your first long distance trip.

You just charged to 100%. The next charger is 3000′ in altitude higher than your starting point.

Can yo make it?

Mary Barra did say “Another way we are looking to save everyone’s time is by offering navigation with EV-specific routing. With EV Navigation mapping, Bolt EV gives options — like routes that maximize your range or provide access to charging stations”. “Bolt EV also offers an advanced range predictor, which accurately estimates driving range based on topography… temperature… and driving habits.”

So it may not be on the test drive vehicles, or the first ones sold, but I could see this being added as on Over-the-Air update. The Bolt EV is supposed to have the OTA update feature.

i don’t think that GM really intended the Bolt to be used for long distance trips. so why include a bunch of features for uses that aren’t even intended?

Yeah, I agree. I would never use an in-vehicle GPS anyways. On Star does have turn by turn navigation I believe for those who want it.

It is so much easier to use my iPhone and have Siri speak out directions as I come up on them.

In a few years, built in GPS systems will be pretty rare thanks to Carplay.

I prefer built in GPS but there are workarounds. The main thing that prevents me from seriously considering the Bolt is its lack of smart cruise control. I’m fine with no autosteer but after using Tesla’s traffic aware cruise control, I don’t want a car without it.

I do like the hatchback though. Model S is best for me for now.

“As for the quibbles, the lack of built-in GPS was considered a pain, ”

I guess one will just have to run EV Trip planner app prior to making the trip. Ev trip planner takes altitude change, vehicle weight and (I think) ambient temperature into account.

No thanks on the GPS. Smart move to not have it.

The bottom line take away from most was:
* good design
* like it
* doesn’t have a big T on the front, so I’m out.

This is basically the feedback you’d get from an Apple users if you hand them a new Samsung to evaluate.

Yeah, like GM cars, we would be scared the Samsung would burst into flames! /s

Sounds like most of the people checking out the Bolt in the vid were Tesla employees…..how many of them want to go on record saying they’d buy a Bolt over a Model 3??

People that want to keep their Tesla job, anyways.

Looks like you didn’t bother to read the article. The people doing the looking were members of the Orange County Tesla Club. So the club members have already self-selected themselves for being Tesla enthusiasts.

No cynicism about the employees of a company self-censoring themselves is called for here.

I hope it takes people away from the Model ≡ wait list so my buddy can get his sooner…..lol

Also it ~MIGHT~ drive down the used price of a Model S.

Fingers crossed!

The “problem” for Tesla and other newcomers in the car sector (as public for-profit companies) is not a single GM Bolt – it’s the LG Chem batteries inside.

Any large car maker can now order such cells cells from LG, Samsung etc. for their car models (Renault already does so in Europe for the ZOE).

By around 2020, all large car makers can ship long-range EVs in all price classes, especially in the Model3 price range.

Result: Very intense competition and shrinking margins – good for car buyers interested in EVs, but bad for new entrants to the car sector because of the high fix costs and cap-ex intensity to ramp up production and global distribution.

LMFAO, serial Tesla hater/shorter tftf is once again posting anti-Tesla FUD here in another lame attempt to try and help his short positions on Tesla.

So tftf, why is exactly that you refuse to disclose that you are short on Tesla and post similar repetitive anti-Tesla FUD over on Seeking Liars?

tftf said:

“By around 2020, all large car makers can ship long-range EVs in all price classes, especially in the Model3 price range.”

ROTFL! 😆

Serial Tesla shorters are so cute when they’re desperate! Tftf, I wish you were here so I could give you a noogie.
😀 😀 😀

More and more models of PEVs (Plug-in EVs) are going into production. The ramp-up of battery supply is not keeping pace; see source below. Legacy auto makers have two choices: Settle for smaller and smaller slices of the near-future “pie” of commodity li-ion batteries, or build their own high-capacity battery factories.

We can tell which legacy auto makers are getting serious about building PEVs in large numbers. They’re the ones currently making plans to build high-capacity battery cell factories which they directly control, or already are building them. The others clearly are going to fall behind as the EV revolution continues to accelerate.

As a reminder, tftf, GM is dependent on LG Chem for its battery cells for the Bolt. You can see, in the article linked below, that LG Chem is showing amazingly little growth in production capacity, as compared to Tesla’s supplier — Panasonic.

http://insideevs.com/ev-lithium-ion-battery-suppliers-outlook-h1-2016/

Okay, that’s it, you shall henceforth be known as wtfwtf!?

It’s a bit like getting used to caviar, and then having a plate of lutefisk plopped down in front of you. Sure it’s good for you but it’s not the same, but if you are hungry you will eat it.

America is hungry for a long range semi-affordable ev and the Bolt is it for now.

Maybe the “hot hatch” version of the Bolt will have Lutefisk mode. 😀

That stuff is so nasty, hard to believe some people really like it.

my Uncle sat down to the dinner table one holiday, and scowled out the line “This is why the Good Lord put your nose right over your mouth, to keep you from eating stuff like that.”

Elon Musk’s purpose for Tesla is to start other manufacturer’s building EV’s. And he has succeeded! It is all for the good.

We have had the Leaf, and the Bolt EV is coming well before the Model 3 – because the Model 3 is such a compelling car.

The Leaf because of Tesla? Haha.

Revisionist history.

When the Nissan LEAF was launched/announced in Japanin 2009 Tesla was basically broke and days away from Chapter 11.

The LEAF and Volt announcements came after the Roadster was released. Tesla gave them the reason to announce their cars earlier than they would have.

tftf said:

“The Leaf because of Tesla? Haha.

“Revisionist history.”

No, that is Truth. Hardly surprising that a FUDster like you doesn’t recognize it when you see it.

It was Tesla demonstrating the prototype of the Roadster which motivated Nissan to put the Leaf into production, and motivated GM to put the Volt into production.

Those developments would have continued even if Tesla had died without ever making a single production car.

The point is that Tesla demonstrated that it was possible to make a plug-in EV that was compelling, high-performance, stylish, and desirable. As they say: “Knowing that it can be done is half the battle.”

wtfwtf — Here is what GM’s Bob Lutz himself said about it in an interview with SFGate’s David R. Baker on November 10, 2011: “At one point, I sat next to (then GM CEO) Rick Wagoner at a meeting and he put his hand on my arm and said, “Bob, we lost a billion dollars on EV1. How much do you suggest we lose the next time around?” So that shut me up for that meeting. But then Tesla made the announcement about the Roadster, with lithium-ion batteries, with the 200-mile range. I just kind of blew up in a meeting. I said, “All the technical people tell me it can’t be done, you can’t use lithium-ion, it can’t store enough energy, etc. And here’s a West Coast software startup guy who’s announcing 200 mile range, zero to 60 in four and a half seconds, 140 miles-an-hour top speed. We can’t do what that guy in California does?” Give me a break. All I wanted to do is talk to those guys, and find out what experiences they’d had, how well their battery packs work, etc. YOU MEAN TALK TO TESLA? Yeah, I talked to (former Tesla CEO) Martin Eberhard… Read more »

The response from current Tesla owners was much better than I would have thought..

“Very high-end vehicle …. for $30,000”.

That is a rave if I’ve ever heard one.

Meanwhile, the best Nissan can do is release a 100% gasoline hybrid concept.

Leaf may be the best seller, but the battery degredation issue has killed the resale value of the car, at least here in the northeast.

Even the local Nissan dealer jokes that their ONE leaf customer wears a superinsulated Snowmobile jacket in the wintertime to avoid using the heater so that he has enough spare working battery to get where he is going.

If Nissan doesn’t do something fast, I’d say they are resting on their laurels and will soon be displaced as the market leader.

Somewhere I read that the Bolt will have an improved heater, though it will(apparently)still utilize a resistive heater. I am really curious to see how GM handles heating this car. For 2 years I drove an I-MiEV, and because of the 62 mile range, in the winter I’d dread getting in the car, as it required many levels of clothing to keep warm. The heater(which worked moderately well)took such a drain on the battery(and I did not have access to workplace charging)that I just almost never used it(except for short bursts). Made going to a Volt an easy choice. I really hope that they get it right because the Bolt EV looks to be an appealing car.

Well, Lou, you’re right, and it especially applies where I am since my locale is colder than yours.

But, the 238 mile epa range is good for a long trip, since typically in a somewhat warmer area than what we live in, the heater wont but used as much and the very low wattage seat heaters are adequate, but even where I am, on a long trip I need the heater at full blast for the first 25 minutes and then I can greatly throttle back – and even shut off the heater completely if it is not too humid to require the defroster.

The point you mention is just another reason why I Love Big Batteries. As GM is using in their marketing “You just think about where you are going instead of ‘Do I have enough range to get there?’ “

Another Euro point of view

It is probably nice to own one (I mean the way it drives & handles etc…) but all I see about the Bold looks really dull and, in the inside, materials do look cheap. Am I being too much of a snobbish European here or is it a feeling shared by you fellow commenters ? I guess that for $37.5K you can’t (in 2016) have a classy interior AND a 60Kwh battery, otherwise GM would sale them at a loss perhaps. I wonder how Tesla will manage to keep the cost down. It seems to me that Tesla’s interiors are (way) more classy than that (materials used for ex.). If I compare that to Skoda, a polular cheap Euro brand, looks (inside) are classier than this.

Another Euro point of view

To give an example, this video below shows the interior of a low(rather) cost brand in Europe. It looks classier (to me at least) than the Bolt interior. Maybe however this type of interior is focused on Euro taste and wouldn’t be liked at all in the US (there is a lot of black for example, it could easily look gloomy).

Obviously all subjective, but I prefer the Bolt EV interior. That Skoda seems bland/boxy to me.

Another Euro point of view

It is indeed very subjective and as for the fit and finish, materials quality etc. one would probably need to sit in the car to assess the differences.

i think that the Bolt dash looks better also; it doesn’t look as good as that of the gen1 Volt, but it does look better than the skoda.

I am NOT surprised at all.

Most Tesla owners I have met are usually pretty cool and seems to be more an early adopters. They are mostly objective about the EV world. They appreciate other EV products for what they are. Sure they are also very loyal to Tesla Brand since Tesla deserves most of that.

Now, Tesla fan boi who doesn’t even own Tesla cars are usually the one that flames other competitions. Maybe they are doing it for other ulterior motives…

what struck me as being odd was the guy who suggested that sitting in the Volt was not comfortable. maybe it isn’t very comfortable if you are sitting in the rear seats, but from the driver’s seat, it’s pretty comfortable.

Thaz one ugly car right there

I am hoping that the Bolt will be a very reliable car as my top criteria for an electric car purchase (next car will definitely be a BEV) are:

range (which the Bolt and M3 have)
reliability
periodic maintenance costs
AWD

other nice to have:
Supercharger Network or something similar (not required 95% of the time)
coolness factor /aesthetics
dynamic cruise control
automated emergency braking