Tesla Model S CHAdeMO Charging Versus Supercharging – Video

FEB 27 2015 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 48

As promised, Here’s Bjørn Nyland’s CHAdeMO adapter video.

What you’ll see in the video is CHAdeMO charging a Tesla Model S (via adapter) versus Supercharging both a 60-kWh Model S and an 85-kWh Model S.

Despite its slower charging rate, Bjørn says that, without a doubt, he’d recommend that Model S owners buy the CHAdeMO adapter.

That adapter is only $495 in the U.S. and is being shipped out now to those who’ve been on the waitlist for quite awhile.

General ordering of the adapter will be available just as soon as Tesla fills the backlog.

Charging Comparison

Charging Comparison

Categories: Charging, Tesla

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48 Comments on "Tesla Model S CHAdeMO Charging Versus Supercharging – Video"

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So cool to see Tesla integrating other charging standards for their vehicles, so customers don’t have to worry where they can get their “fuel” from. 🙂

GM, Ford, Chrysler– you gonna make a CCS to CHAdeMo adapter for your EVs? 😉

Is Nissan going to make a CCS adapter?

Nissan could easily add the CCS capability to its vehicles if it needed to… rework the charge port ato fit a CCS J1772 plug instead of the older non CCS j plug they have now… but why should they when the CHAdeMO standard plug that they now have is better supported byu the majority of DC quick chargers in the world. CHAdeMO is approaching 6000 worldwide while CCS is still around 1000. I don’t think it would be a big retrofit for existing CHAdeMO cars if that situations ever really changes.

So far however the complaince car makers are the only companies not using CHAdeMO and the serious EV makers (Nissan, Tesla, Mitsubishi, KIA) are supporting CHAdeMO. Even BMW supports CHAdeMO in Japan as their car wouldn’t sell there without it.

I think you are confusing the term “support” with “acquiesce”.

Anon raised the question(s). So why would any of the CCS companies want to make a Chademo adapter?

It’s funny because this is a dead horse and each month there are more and more CCS chargers added (which are a better technology BTW). And each month Chademo fanboys say “Well when it gets to this #”, “or this #”, and they keep increasing the number.

As Ms. Menzel said, “Let it go”.

Why is CCS a better technology?

The power line communication in CCS seems worse.

You can hug that “FrankenPlug” all you want, but the sad state of affairs is– there are hardly any US CCS chargers installed, compared to every other DCFC standard. Cars with 200 – 300 mile range without infrastructure to recharge them quickly, are going to be a problem…

US auto companies might start to crank out CCS compatible vehicles, but who’s putting in the stations?

I’m not a big fan of CHAdeMO, but the data says it is rather more established than our own “native” DCFC standard.

Making vehicles or adapters for vehicles that support multiple Fast Charging standards, seems like a no-brainer. But the only company I see that’s making an adapter for ALMOST every type of socket on the planet– seems to be Tesla.

It would be nice to see other auto makers make similar commitments to easing customer concerns for where to quickly charge. Assuming that is, that they really want to sell EVs. 😉

Glad to see that it works well. sad to think that our CHAdeMO chargers will be getting busier as these guys line up at them.

As to GM, Ford, And Chrysler maybe by the time they have released serious EV efforts the CHAdeMO standard will be everywhere and we can ignore the CCS. Making an adapter to CHAdeMO from CCS will never happen as CCS was created to avoid CHAdeMO. Because having a different charger connector made some foot dragging companies feel like they had a chance to keep up. The ‘not invented here’ syndrome on display.

CHAdeMO or charge to move is an established standard in many places and is an open standard… also includes a vehicle to home two way option that is currently in use in many places including a US Air Force base. We should ignore the CCS standard… it is a waste of time and money. CHAdeMO and Tesla have a better solution.

These adapters were originally just for the Japanese market as they have a fantastic network of CHAdeMO fast chargers nationwide.

Before you “ignore” CCS, you may want to compare the number of CCS cars coming out vs Chademo. Also, why would I want a car that needs 2 charging ports instead of just 1?

So… give us the real numbers of actual sales of the myriad new cars coming with CCS… Oh wait there aren’t many…. Renault/Nissan is over 200k world wide with the leaf and e-NV200 and ZOE Evs.(almost every one of these has a CHAdeMO Port.) Tesla is also in the 50k range and building quickly… the number of cars actually sold that could have CCS is much larger thatn the number that really have a DC CCS port on them. Mercedes has no QC, Toyota didn’t bother on their RAV4ev which sold a mere 2600 units. BMW hasn’t said how many of its i3s have CCS… Is VW equipping the eGolf with it by default? I will believe in CCS when it overtakes CHAdeMO if the other manufacturers actually put their money where their mouths are.

Not sure how to give sales figures of cars that are still coming. If they aren’t here yet, how could they have sales?

Everything coming up from Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen with DCFC will have CCS.

There’s a reason all the new DCFC stations being installed are dual-standard.

The case for CCS is even stronger Europe, where the ACEA is behind CCS.

When will Tesla reciprocate the favor other charging stations are providing Tesla and open the SC network to other EVs rather than keeping them proprietary to just those Tesla drivers who’ve purchased the $2500 SC option?

Tesla already offered to share the SuperCharger network with any other EV maker who was willing to help support the system. The refusal was on the part of every other EV maker, not on the part of Tesla. But currently, it makes no sense for any other EV maker to offer SuperCharger compatibility. Nobody else makes EVs with battery packs capable of being charged at full SuperCharger speed (in miles/km per minute). Now, if and when other EV makers do start offering those nominal “200 mile” EVs, it might make sense for them. Or they may decide it’s in their best interest to -not- support a competitor. For the future, it would be better if EV makers would agree on a common standard in advance, rather than one EV maker trying to persuade competitors to join its system. And any future standard needs to allow for future upgrades, since competition will drive down charge times by increasing charging current, probably until we get ~100 kWh EVs which can be recharged 90% or more in 10 minutes or less. (And on some future day, even -that- prediction may look comically slow.) As I understand it, Tesla walked away from talks about… Read more »

So in Tesla’s view, the charging fees that Model S drivers pay to access CHAdeMO chargers is quite sufficient for them to use CHAdeMO-based DC charging networks (that Tesla did not & does not contribute to build and maintain).

Yet for some reason, it is not sufficient for non-Tesla EV drivers to pay Tesla for access to the SC networks. Instead, it has to be the automakers that must partner up with Tesla in order for Leafs and i3s to access the SC network.

Do as I say, not as I do.

To clarify my last comment:

Tesla appears to have no problem with its drivers leveraging other, “inferior” charging networks, yet actively stands in the way of other automakers’ EVs leveraging its networks.

If Tesla does not need to make direct agreements with ChargePoint, Blink, et al in order for Model S drivers to use those L2 and CHAdeMO chargers, why does Tesla require that Nissan/GM/BMW make direct agreements with them for those EVs to use the SC network?

Shouldn’t they just accept fees from drivers, exactly as Model S owners do when they access non-Tesla charging networks?

There can be no clarification for such a misinformed perspective…

1. CHAdeMO is an open standard. Anyone can make a compatible adapter to talk to their hardware.

2. Model S owners typically pre-pay for SC Station access at time of vehicle purchase.

3. The CHAdeMO Adapter ONLY works on vehicles that have SuperCharger Access. Tesla onwers also pay additionally for the Adapter, and any usage fees for the specific CHAdeMO station if it is required.

4. SuperChargers are proprietary, but open to all paying manufactures who wish to use the format. None have taken the invitation by Tesla to utilize them for their tiny battery EVs. This may change as the network expands and other EV makers increase the size / range of their vehicles’ batteries.

Yes, CHAdeMO is an open standard and the Tesla Connector is not. That’s the point: Tesla, who swears up and down that they are trying to increase the entire EV market (and that they aren’t in this for the money), has chosen to deploy a nationwide charging network that no one but Tesla owners may use.

And instead of including CHAdeMO or CCS connections (or selling a Tesla Connector adapter) and letting other EV owners pay for access to the SC network, they choose to use their proprietary connector as a mechanism to lock out other EV owners, while hiding behind “the other automakers won’t buy in!” as an excuse (even though Tesla has not bought in to the other charging networks that they provide adapters for).

Tesla never said it was FREE for any automaker to use, ya troll. Perhaps this is news to you, but Tesla is not a charity. It’s actually a business, that has been quite clear concerning how others can incorporate the SuperCharger Network for other automakers EVs.

If someone wants to pony up to cover the utilization costs (TMC’s been upfront about this from day one), then anyone can use it. It’s not Tesla’s fault no one has paid for access. Maybe you need to look at the motives of the other automakers, who are actively ignoring utilizing Tesla’s patents and SC Network.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

So again, when Tesla’s drivers want to use other charging networks (that Tesla did not contribute toward building), the appropriate “contribution towards utilization costs” is for their drivers to pay that network’s standard charging fee.

But if other EV drivers want to use Tesla’s SC network, suddenly the appropriate contribution towards utilization costs is… for whoever made the car to negotiate with Tesla directly?

Automakers (including Tesla!) don’t have to negotiate directly with ChargePoint, Blink, etc. to use their networks, so why should they have to negotiate directly with Tesla for their drivers to use the SC network? Why can’t the drivers just pay charging fees, like on every other charging network?

If the answer is, “Tesla’s SC network doesn’t use an open protocol and has special encryption”… that’s the point! Tesla specifically and intentionally made a charging network that was NOT compatible with anything but Tesla EVs, because Tesla doesn’t mind fragmenting the charging market as long as they are the ones making money from it.

Do as I say, not as I do.

You really dont understand much, do you?

” because it is impossible for that format to support the high current that Tesla cars need.”

It cannot be *impossible*, since 100 kW Chademo chargers already exist:

http://insideevs.com/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-sae-combo-vs-tesla-supercharger/

135kW is greater than 100kW. And that 100kW is 500V @ 200A. Tesla’s 135kW is ~400V @ 340A. At the same voltage, those “100kW” chargers turn into 400V*200A = 80kW in the real world.

Both CCS and CHAdeMO have the same problem as they max out at 200A.

Tesla’s “offer” to use the SuperChargers is useless marketing stunt. They require to use lifetime “free” charging and refuse to implement a payment system.

Lifetime “free” charging is simply impossible to finance for a mass EV, that will sell at <30000 €.

They can charge the same $2000 per vehicle fee as for the 60kWh Model S. I certainly would have no qualms paying such a fee for supercharger access if I get a Model 3 (or some other EV at around $35k).

They could charge anyone $2000 up front for SC access… but they don’t want to. That’s why they made a proprietary connector and there are no adapters on the market to let anyone connect a non-Tesla car to a SC: to keep all non-Tesla users from congesting the SC network, without outright saying, “we don’t want you people using our chargers.”

It’s a classic Apple move.

You think it’s impossible because you haven’t done the math.

Tesla Superchargers are almost all located away from major population centers, so on average it’s unlikely that more than 20% of the entire Tesla fleet’s mileage will be charged that way (only ~10% right now).

40,000 supercharged miles over the life of a car will need about 15000 kWh, which will cost about $2000. It’s very doable for a $30k car.

That’s not true. Tesla agreed to open licensing to their charging equipment patents, so other manufacturers could use the same connectors and plugs and the same protocol, they DID NOT open access to the SuperCharger network. There is a handshake involved in establishing a charging session, and there is encryption involved. It’s not a simple matter of plugging in a paddle and hitting “Start” to charge any old vehicle with a receptacle.

500 for a plug? Is that serious?

Pretty Cool!

Yeah, it’s slower, but not drastically slower than the 60 charge rate, considering how the 60 slows down to match it after a little while. This is good news for everyone. More people using public CHAdeMO stations means more public stations.

This is great for Tesla owners, not so much for owners of LEAFs and Kia Soul EVs. Generally LEAFs and Kia Soul EVs spend 30 minutes at CHAdeMO sites. If a Tesla comes by and leaves the car there for 90 minutes good luck to the next person waiting in line (since CHAdeMO stations are still lacking in quantity as it is).

How is that different from a Leaf or Kia owner leaving their car on charge instead of waiting?

I think more demand for CHAdeMO stations in the end will be good for LEAF/Soul-EV owners as it should encourage the installation of more CHAdeMO stations.

I doubt you’ll see many Tesla drivers camping out at CHAdeMO charge stations. If a Supercharger is anywhere on your route, that’s the charge point you’d prefer. This adapter is a last resort kind of option, and will probably get less use over time as the SC network is back-filled.

I never knew the 60kwh Tesla’s charge rate was down at “60kw”, where the 85kwh cars are up at “112kw”. That’s the biggest take-away from his pic, IMO.

Can anyone confirm 60’s, even low in the charge (or SOC) end up near half the charge rate? These bars aren’t near the taper zone.

The 60s max out at 90kW supercharging. I’m usually in the 80kW range for most of the way until the tapering.

Great. That opens up a whole new world for Tesla owners.

Now they need to get started on a CCS adapter.

It will be interesting to see if that happens. There are so few US CCS stations in existence, Tesla clearly went for the more common global standard, first. And besides: they do sell their vehicles in Japan. 😉

Instead of a CCS to Tesla adapter, all of the DC fast chargers need to be upgraded to dual standard CHAdeMO+CCS plugs.

This allows ALL cars, Leaf, i3, Golf, Tesla, etc. to use the fast chargers.

GSP

Why did he only charge to 80% with the Superchargers but went to 100% with the CHAdeMO? (I know Tesla recommends only going Supercharging to 80%, but that same logic would also apply to the CHAdeMO charger.)

Makes doing a proper comparison impossible.

Makes no difference, the taper is vs battery SoC not the charge limit. If I roll into an SC with 10% SoC, my rate of charge is not going to change if I set the charge limit at 50%, 80% or 100%

The supercharger Videos were made some time ago. I would guess that Bjorn took to new Chademo to 100% so that we could see how it tapers.

GSP

CherylG's_DirtyLittleSecret

Way to go Tesla!!

Interesting that the SC gives the rate in kW, but the Chademo shows km/hr.

It’s cool the vehicle “knows” it’s DCFCing, but not at at SuperCharger.

Smart Car. 🙂

This is an awesome demo of tapering. Yes initially it is nice to have a higher amperage charger… but once you get to the last 10 to 20 percent of capacity it makes little difference.

Over the whole thing the CHAdeMO only took about 5 to 10 minutes more than the supercharger on the Model S60. So… message here… get more DC fast chargers installed in as many places as possible so that we can all keep moving faster than at the L2 rates.

L2 is most useful in places where people will be for hours… like stadium,malls and theaters.

Price is $450 for the US adapter, not $495 as mentioned in the story.

Reserved my adapter on Monday (#825), saw #395 got their email to order this week.

Betamax rules! VHS sux!

:p

Why did 60kw an 85kw stop at about 80%.