Tesla Model 3 Order Books Now Open To All In U.S.

Blue Tesla Model 3


Tesla Model 3 orders may be open to everyone in North America, but you’re still out of luck if you want that base $35,000 model

Finally, you are no longer required to hold a reservation in order to purchase a Model 3.

Tesla has opened its ordering system for everyone in the U.S. wanting to order their electric vehicle. Even if you’re not looking to order, you can still go through the configuration process and play around with what might be your future Model 3.


Tesla Model 3 Ordering Configuration Screenshot

Tesla may be through the perfect storm that is their production process woes, but it’s still not ready to sell the $35,000 base model it promised us a long time ago. According to current data on their website, people wanting to order a Model 3 with a standard battery are faced with a 6-9 month wait time.

For anyone that wants to order a Model 3 with a reasonable wait time, you must choose the aforementioned long-range battery and premium interior, pushing the minimum price up to $49,000 – before tax breaks. Everything else regarding its configuration is up to you: a choice between a rear-wheel or all-wheel drive, Performance version, Autopilot, color, wheels and other items.

And yes, the car looks incredible with a Deep Blue Metallic paint finish and those 20” wheels and improved brakes, all part of the Performance Upgrade option. For a $5,000 price hike, you get those two items, alongside a carbon fiber spoiler, aluminum alloy pedals and finally, the Model 3’s top speed increased from 145mph to 155mph.

According to our sources, reservation holders still get first dibs on the car. This means that, even if you ordered today, you’ll still gonna be faced with a long time before your delivery actually takes place. Currently, according to Tesla, the company estimates that delivery times could be, in consecutive order: 1-3 months for a rear-wheel-drive version, with a long-range battery and premium interior,  approximately 2-4 months for the dual motor versions and the same battery and interior, and 1-3 months for the dual motor, all-wheel-drive version with the same battery and interior options.

Naturally, these lead times could go up or down. However, it’s good to see that Tesla has pushed its Model 3 production output to such levels that the company is confident to make regular orders available. Hopefully, they’ll cut the lead times and allow for a timely delivery for anyone ordering a Model 3 in the forthcoming months.

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205 Comments on "Tesla Model 3 Order Books Now Open To All In U.S."

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What was the timeframe from when ordering was opened to all reservation holders to when ordering was opened to anyone? Two weeks? It sounds like they couldn’t fill the order pipeline from the last remaining reservation holders. I think many of these reservation holders originally aimed for the $35K version + $7.5K federal rebate + state credits.

It’s a bit of a bummer that a reservation holder must put down $3500 but a new buyer only $2500.

New buyers are still behind the one that put a deposit down earlier.

Why complain about Tesla offering more choices, Eleventy Pretend Electrics? The reservation holder can always cancel his reservation and get a full refund, if he wants to go to the back of the line with the others who didn’t get a reservation.

I just drove by one of the SoCal showrooms and the lots were absolutely jammed (>100 CARS) with TM3.

for a car that “you can’t buy off the lot” they sure have a lot of them sitting around. I’m wondering if maybe they’ve already fulfilled most of the demand for the $65K car? I guess we’ll know if “targeted incentives” suddenly appear– especially since all the reservation-wait-in-line stuff’s already history. Right now it appears you can Order-Configure-Deliver without placing the $1000 reservation to wait in line.

It’s like the Super Antithesis Of Everybody Want Some. No…everybody who wants a $50K+ rushed tent-built zombie-grunt 5-min misdirection delivery walkthrough Tbone-finder, is out on the roads, so be wary and steer clear of their Grey Poupon entitlement Red HOV stickers.

The jammed lots are obviously cars awaiting delivery.

Obviously they wouldn’t have kept ramping production if they didn’t have enough orders…

I don’t know how “obvious” that is… it’s a lot of cars that everybody’s anxious to take delivery on. And, all parties have incentive to get them moved off the lot, so why have 120 or so of them just sitting around?

I mean it’s possible they are awaiting re-work, given how they were rushed out of the tent, but I can’t imagine why they’d have that many sitting here in a small (<100K population) town awaiting delivery.

Cars have to be prepped for delivery after being shipped. Not just Tesla’s. Every car sold by every company everywhere in the world first gets shipped from the factory to the final sales location where shipping packaging is remove and the vehicle is prepped for delivery.

Sorry you need to be taught basic logistics. But you seem fine with exposing your complete willful ignorance to the whole world on an hourly basis.

We are 14 days from a required slowdown in sales because of a federal law. Well not really required but strongly encouraged. To think those cars don’t have a home is absurd. And to think they would be that far away from factory if they need rework is a little off also.

Cars on lots… because they wanted to surpass the golden 200k sold until July!

Or maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with “filling the order pipeline”, but simply the fact that once everyone was able to make a reservation and then immediately convert it into an order, they could just as well eliminate that redundant step…

If you are buying a $50K+ Tesla, and you are worried about the difference of $1000 dollars is for a couple of months between now and when you complete the purchase, you shouldn’t be buying a $50K+ new car of any kind.

I always thought, the elephant in the room was, if they would ever be able to make a profit while selling the Model3. I start to realise, that there is a second one: weak demant for the Model3.

Oh, the way they’ve suddenly “opened up the velvet rope” for newcomers willing to buy the $60K car is probably a commentary on demand.

Demand curve is VERY elastic here– when you sell a $60K car you are selling to a completely different group of buyers than a $30K car. And, face it, most of the 450K loan-givers were mentally calculating a $28K car, not a $60K car, plus sales tax, plus tags, plus insurance on a new $60K car…

Tesla probably goofed up here in not getting more info on buyers’ preferences at the time they took the $1000… At least to see how the demand curve was leaning.

“Tesla probably goofed up here in not getting more info on buyers’ preferences at the time they took the $1000… At least to see how the demand curve was leaning.”

Have to disagree. Telling the truth is not the way to get free multi-year unsecured loans from gullible fans. That’s not how snake oil salesmen work.

I think their point was Tesla could have collected data on price range or configuration. They would have still got the 450k reservations, but they would have also had some data on where the demand curve was. Was it for 350k $35k($28k) cars? Because that paints a very different picture.

Egzactly! Many could see it coming though. There were rumors and articles on SA and twitter about the possibility of the reservation list being much shorter than we are led to believe.
Now, who put the money into the reservation pool to show $420M of balance to auditors?

LOL. The floodgate of orders opened. But that turns out to be a “tricklegate” as only a trickle of orders are pouring in.
(Just coined the word to celebrate this. copyright mine.)

WOW, the Global / World Top 5 EV Sales by Model line up for the first half of the year has just been released.
2 from China, 2 from Japan and 1 from the USA.

Uh, that’s just a guess, not actual numbers. That’s why they called it a “bet”. (And frankly, I’m not sure why they even do such a thing…)

Cheesy move by Elon,
… so I wonder how many “base model 3” reservation holders are gonna take their $1,000 and cheese it?

And, as predicted, (Arstechnica just posted this…) the $35K version has disappeared completely off the Tesla website as of today. Not sure what that means, but it can’t be good for all of us waiting for an affordable version.

I’m sure that, being the upstanding member of the IEVs “usual suspects” community that you are, you’ll post an apology when your latest bit of anti-Tesla FUD is shown to be fake news.

Oh, wait… Of course you won’t.

No it hasn’t.

Tesla.com shows “Standard Battery available in 6-9 months” in the configurator, and the Model 3 pages shows a “standard” option in the Specs section.

https:// arstechnica . com/cars/2018/07/tesla-drops-35000-price-from-model-3-page-insists-plans-havent-changed/

I haven’t logged on to look, but this is what ARS reported earlier today

Heck, at least you admitted you didn’t even bother looking before you blindly cut-and pasted from Seeking Alpha and Concern Trolling it to here.

Because otherwise you would realize that you’ve made THE EXACT MISTAKE you were told not to make:

“It’s a mistake to position this as a change in Tesla’s plan because it’s not,” she told Ars in a phone interview. “We’re just focusing on the options that are available now for our customers so that it’s more clear. There’s nothing else to it.”

?? Seeking Alpha? What are you talking about?

It sure sounds like the $35K option fading into the mists of “oh we never planned to build that” along with battery swap.

Wow. Even when spoon fed the answer, you continue your willful ignorance.

“It’s a mistake to position this as a change in Tesla’s plan because it’s not,” she told Ars in a phone interview. “We’re just focusing on the options that are available now for our customers so that it’s more clear. There’s nothing else to it.”

On a serious note, you certainly do display distinct inability to read. If you have a legitimate diagnosed learning disability, and I will stop mocking you for a disability you have no control over.

Is she the same spokesperson that promised “20K a month in December” or “500K cars in 2018” and “1 million cars in 2019”? and “safest car ever built”… ’cause if she is, her word seems kinda not-so-good.

She’s the one sitting on the top of the Plug-in Sales Scorecard, as Tesla keeps delivering on their numbers, even when they deliver a few quarters late. They still eventually hit their numbers.

Love the personal attacks here. Really makes for a convincing argument.

Sad. Folks are in denial here. Some can’t even admit blatant fact that Tesla is backing away from the $35k car as they should. There has never been made or shown a $35k model 3. It was disingenuous to describe the model 3 as $35k on the website. It’s good Tesla removed it. But it does set the path to be able to never make it.
The entire reservation process has now been clearly shown to be a scam. Money is the only thing that matters for order placement. If they ever do make a 35k car it will only be when volume is so high that the wait won’t be long especially compared to the 2 1/2 years folks have waited so far. I’m glad I cancelled. Not gonna happen for another year if ever at this rate. Tesla may not be able to make a profit in the 35k regardless of volume.

If the $35k do indeed gets cancel then I’m done with of imaging a Tesla and it will be in the same boat of automakers I detest

Get out of here with misinformation that you even admitted and still trying to spoon feed. If I mess up on sources and article that’s my fault and own it. Please Steven do something

That says $35,000 where…

Cupboard is Bare. Tesla Kodak moment approaching. There are Zero M3 Long Range $50K+ reservation CA waitlist buyers left in USA. They So need the Unicorn fairytale std range $35k or they are So DeD BeF. Hail Mary sell other 95% to Tencent, or Sergei & Larry

GM is the Kodak of EV’s, starting with the EV1. Now they are still sitting on the once popular Volt and Leaf, which are both way down from GM’s initial pre-launch sales projections.

Reservation holders are just the tip of the iceberg of Tesla demand.

Great analogy. What did GM make last year? Over $10 Billion?
What did Tesla lose last quarter? Over a billion…

You unwittingly proved my point.

GM is Kodak making billions, Tesla is the challenger to the scene cutting into GM’s market while GM sleeps and fails to react.

Or have you not seen the Plug-in Sales Scoreboard lately?

Over $10 billion was their profit. Their revenue was over $145 billion. They have been increasing year over year.

You are further proving my point. GM is the big Kodak with all their profits, and Tesla is the upstart that is disrupting them.

Since you wrote about GM that “Now they are still sitting on the once popular Volt and Leaf, which are both way down from GM’s initial pre-launch sales projections”, you probably don’t realize that the Leaf is not a GM car?

If you are interested in writing about cars, perhaps it would be worth your while to look the Leaf up .. is a milestone in the moEVment. It is the first practical, available and affordable electric car (albeit not a long-range one).

Ha!! Yea, my bad, I butchered that. My mistake. Should have been Volt and Bolt.

Bolt is on track this year to not even hit the bottom of their 20K projection, much less their optimistic statement that they could expand to 50K/yr: https://insideevs.com/general-motors-can-make-50000-chevrolet-bolts-per-year/

Volt has NEVER hit their 60K/yr production target, and nowhere near their 120K/yr target they had talked about: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/01/will-gm-sell-120k-volts-next-year/

And yet folks here whine endlessly about the Model 3, which has sold more units in 6 months early in ramp-up than the Bolt sold in the US for all of 2017. It is a matter of months before the Model 3 US sales dwarfs total all-time Bolt sales. But that is the double standard around here. Only Tesla is held to their numbers.

No, man, Pinocchio, you are the hypocrite, who couldn’t even commit to the lowbar moving goalposts 2018 100K Model3 estimate back in Dec, now only ~25K so far, get Ready to Eat Crow, because the barn is empty and fat lady has sung. Pose for yr Kodak moment. Dap, booyah.

Tesla is late, but here is the difference. Just like has happened with Tesla before, they will actually HIT their 10k/week target. Just like they hit their 5k/wk target, even though it was 2 quarters late.

Sadly you boneheads don’t understand that eventually hitting much higher targets is better then NEVER hitting much lower targets even years later. Even if Tesla is late by multiple quarters.

I question that there is 10k/wk of demand for the current version. I think they might know that and won’t go to a higher run rate, instead staying at a rate closer to 5k/wk as that is actual demand.

Everyone bashes gm for not making a lot more ev’s. I would say it’s more of a demand problem, not a supply problem. I agree that they didn’t make as sexy or appealing car as the tm3, but the bolt costs $37k as a base today and the tm3 is $50k as a base today. Almost 50% more expensive. I would hope it’s a lot nicer car.

GM could solve their demand problem by expanding their supply of Voltec PHEV and EV drive systems into new bodies.

The most popular body styles in the US for cars 30K and higher are 4-door midsize sedans, and CUV/SUV’s. GM offers a Compact sedan in a market where the compact sedan share is shrinking quickly. And a 5-door hatch in a market where there are very few 5-door hatches in the 30K and up price range. 5-door hatches are typically associated with cars half the price as the MSRP of a moderately optioned Bolt in the US market. The few exceptions to the rule prove the rule.

Yes I agree. When is the Gm presentation of his electrified lineup

Nobody claimed there is demand for 10,000 long-range Model 3 per week… They said they need 5,000/week to be profitable with these. As they approach 10,000/week later, they can be profitable with a mix of base and long-range variants.

But why would you ever build a factory to operate at 10k/wk if there is not that much demand? If the demand is say 5k/wk and your factory can make 10k you have a huge amount of fixed overhead not being covered.

Since they have effectively been holding flat on reservations, to me that suggests that demand is about what they are making now. Pipe fill is potentiall a lot of cars, but that is not steady demand.

Bolt Driver — go back and re-read. He didn’t say that at all. The long range and Standard Range are different trims, and different targets.

The fact that reservations are holding steady with only one single trim in a single configuration and only one drivetrain only tells us what the demand is for that trim and that configuration and that drivetrain combo.

It tells us absolutely nothing about the demand for all the other trim/configuration/drivetrain combos that will eventually be sold.

They’re only delivering to half the world. The other half is waiting. If the US has 5k/wk demand, then the rest of the world is probably the same numbers. Plenty of us are waiting for the Model 3 to cross the pond.

But here is why I had the Nissan Leaf on my mind. They also have come nowhere near their original plans. They built a factory in the US with a capacity of 150K units/year, only to have sales plummet after peaking after only hitting 20% of that advertised capacity. They also missed sales target after sales target, until they quit even trying to even publish US sales targets.

In fact, there are quite a few car makers who don’t even bother publishing split-outs of actual plug-in sales, much less even bother publishing sales projections. Yet the usual suspects whine endlessly about the company that currently holds the #1, #2, and #3 sales slots in the US. As if that company was the one with an EV sales problem

Do you realize GM has nothing to do with the Leaf which is made by Nissan which is a different company…
With lack of facts like this I can understand the blind support of Tesla.

David — I explained I typed the name of the wrong car while trying to condense my thoughts about the Volt, Bolt, and Leaf into a single post, and I screwed up and missed my mistake. I explained that hours before you posted. Go back and read those posts.

A simple response of “my bad, I didn’t read those posts before I posted my response — please ignore my post” is all the response you need. No big deal. Feel free to cut and paste.

Considering how many people have been complaining that Tesla presents the Model 3 as a $35,000 car while not actually selling the $35,000 variant yet, I don’t see how simply removing the misleading claim for now would be a bad thing…

Elon Musk should never have mentioned that the (base version) Tesla Model 3 would have a price tag of $35,000.-.

He should have said that it will be a sub $50,000.- car.

The long-range battery should be the only battery available (at first).

Later on, after having delivered the first few hundred thousand copies of the Tesla Model 3, they should introduce the cheaper and smaller battery pack as a new option. And that would then result in a base version of the Tesla Model 3 for $35,000.-

How about that?

They wouldn’t have anywhere near 400k reservations if the advertised price tag was “<$50k".

They would have also lost way more sales to the Bolt, if they hadn't kept up the "$35k" charade till early 2018.

The vast majority of the people who made a reservation early on, did so because of the $35,000.- base price tag. Most of these people are not interested in buying a $50,000,- car. I have to say that I don’t think that it’s a nice way of building a relationship with your customers by making them wait more than 2 years for something that they had to make a reservation for. And Tesla knew very well that they would NOT be delivering the base version of the Tesla Model 3 early on (when the production would start). It’s just not a nice way of doing business. If somebody tells me that he will deliver something, then I would prefer it if that person would be capable of delivering it in a reasonable time-frame (a year at the most). Instead of making me wait for it for a few years. It is a point to think about. Because you would want to make your customers have a good buying experience. Because you would want these people to again buy a car from you in the future. I’m just saying that if things go smoothly, the experience is much better, and there… Read more »

People placing a reservation knew it would take several years to deliver, even without any delays. Knowing Tesla’s past production delays, most of those placing reservation indeed probably expected it to take longer than announced.

Original plan was to deliver the base version only a couple of months after production start. It’s a change of plans, not intentional dishonesty.

You don’t know how many reservation holders wanted to buy the $35,000 version. Nobody really knows that, including Tesla. Voluntary surveys among reservation holders suggest though that many (most?) people were budgeting way more than $35,000 from the beginning.

Actually, we have a substantial survey size much larger than statistically necessary that proves your claims wrong. Very few reservation holders who completed their intended configuration on model3info.net chose the $35K base with no options.

The survey actually included how much people expected to pay with their choice of options. Very few actually were planning on $35K.

All the info is freely available to anyone who bothers to look.

The survey group is not representative. You wouldn’t be able to order a LR or P today and get it in a month if the reservation list was told that heavily toward LR/P.

Go back and re-read my post. You didn’t read it correctly. My comments were about LR/P AND SR’s that had options added to them to increase the price over the 35K base price.

Like I said, go read the data. Way more than I could possibly repost here that explains everything. I can’t wait for you to respond with yet another post that clearly proves that you never bothered read the survey results……

I will believe you if you just provide evidence.

I disagree. Many, if not most, put that reservation down because the wanted to move away from environment destroying, war causing, health impacting ICE cars and were following Tesla because it was the only company serious about electric cars (baring maybe Nissan, who was still half in). Those people loved the model S but couldn’t afford or justify spending that much for a vehicle. The 3 was their chance to get involved, support that company that is making a real difference, and get a cheaper/more affordable Tesla. Even if Tesla doesn’t stay on top, they are doing what Elon targeted all those years ago…

Scott, you are 100% correct. Tesla demand for the Model 3 has always been about getting the 3rd Tesla more affordable car talked about in Tesla’s “secret plan” from a decade ago.

There were a ton of people posting on websites like this website here that they wanted the Bluestar/Model E before there was even such a thing as long range and short range trims. Before the price had been confirmed. Before any date at all had even been suggested.

All these folks who clearly don’t have Tesla reservations who claim to know why actual reservation holders have reservations clearly don’t know the history.

A delay is not a “charade”.

It is not a “delay”. It is the deliberate strategy of marketing your product with one main price tag, while in practice down-prioritizing that price tag to happen last.

The fact that they just removed that marketing contradicts you claim that it’s a deliberate strategy.

Assaf — I expect better from you. You know that Tesla started advertising the $35K price tag LONG before reservations exploded to nearly half a million. In fact Elon and everyone at Tesla was completely shocked to announce at the initial release event that they had exceeded 100K reservations.

You know these things. So for you to say it was a deliberate market strategy is just flat wrong. From you I would expect you to be able to simply admit you got it wrong with a “my bad” and correct yourself. You aren’t one of these loser trolls who can never admit they got it wrong and keep repeating themselves even when proven wrong.

No, they wouldn’t have lost “way more sales”, simply because they are only making 25k Bolts a year anyway, so it would have made no difference at all.

If that. I think they are on pace for about 15k this year.

If they sell monthly about 1,200 units in the US, then 1,000-1,500 in Korea, plus a few hundred in Canada and a few hundred more in Europe as “Opel Ampera-e”, that would be about 30-40K a year rather than 15K. That said, we don’t know. Well have to wait and see what the real figures are in January 2019.

Even if 100% of Bolt sales went to Model 3 reservation holders who gave up their reservations last year, that would have been less than 5% of the total number of people who ever put a reservation down on a Model 3.

In reality, Bolt sales to date represent a rounding error on Tesla Model 3 demand from reservation holders + people waiting to buy but don’t want to put down a reservation.

That’s a silly argument.
I’m talking about people who had held on to their Model 3 reservation rather than getting a Bolt in 2017 or early 2018, and/or ended up scraping an extra $14k from somewhere to finally get into the true line.

No, you are just making excuses for falling Bolt sales instead of looking good and hard at why the Bolt sales are dropping. Even AFTER Tesla announced delays for the Model 3, and then delays for the SR, Bolt sales CONTINUED to drop. All those reservation holders heard Tesla announce delays, and still not even a single digit percent moved to the Bolt. The numbers prove that, and the rare exception simply proves the rule.

Trying to blame Tesla for the Bolt’s falling sales, when Bolt 2018 sales numbers are a rounding error on Model 3 reservations is what is silly.

If you want to find the root cause for falling Bolt sales, look at the Bolt, not at Tesla. Because the math doesn’t work. People wanted their Model 3’s long before the Tesla even released the specs, and before the Bolt even went on sale. They weren’t cross-shopping the Bolt, they just wanted Tesla to take their damn money already, sight unseen, prior to ANY delivery date being announced. Still true today.

How are Bolt sales falling? They are just being sent to other destinations besides the US.

Starting to have a hard time following this thread so quitting. BUT, wanted to say that I looked at the BOLT. It is a cracker box…many people looking at EV’s want something bigger. My wife is not that tall and she practically hit her head getting into that back seat. Even if it had been better, I would have kept my Tesla 3 reservation. Many of us really want to see that company succeed and believe in his vision…

@ Assaf

“They wouldn’t have anywhere near 400k reservations if the advertised price tag was “<$50k"."

Having that many people make a reservation is great in the first place.

But ONLY if you know that you can deliver that many within a reasonable timeframe.

Making people wait longer than a reasonable period of time (a year) will only result in cancellations of reservations. That is not the situation you would want to be in as a company.

You would want to maintain a kind of a balance between what you are capable of (production capacity) and what you have to do (orders).

Better not create a situation that will put too much stress on your capabilities.

Except that it was known, at the time the first reservations were made, that it will be more than a year before any deliveries take place. Clearly, your definition of “reasonable” is not in line with that of the reservation holders.

Stop the revisionist history.

1) Tesla had no idea they would get that many reservations the day they opened up reservations. On that day they ran a big full screen saying “Late 2017” for deliveries to begin, and even knowing that reservations racked up way more than they ever expected. How were they supposed to “know” what number of reservations they would get the day they opened reservations?

2) When it comes to the wait, that again is revisionist history. People were DEMANDING Tesla take their money BEFORE Tesla ever announced a time frame for deliveries! Over 100K before they even started the reveal. Long before pictures, or firm specs, or any timeframe for delivery, or even a verified price or range, people demanded


@ Nix

“Tesla had no idea they would get that many reservations the day they opened up reservations.”

That’s a good point.

They didn’t know that in advance (at least not for sure).

Should they have a expected it? That’s a subject of debate.

It certainly was one of the possible outcomes.

And also difficult to predict beforehand.

Anyway, you made your point.


Advertising the Model 3 as having a MSRP of $35k was definitely a good marketing strategy for Tesla. Heck, it was brilliant! It is a large part of why they got an unprecedented ~455,000 paid reservations.

We’ll see the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 sooner or later, assuming the Trumpian trade wars don’t force auto makers including Tesla to raise prices. Of course, that $35,000 TM3 is going to be a stripper version, which means very few people will be ordering it… just as very few automobiles of any model in the $30k+ market segment are made as stripper versions.

Trumpian trade wars will raise prices on everything, remember what Michael Moore said about Trump “in a few years you will not like him”. Elections have consequences CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP FOLKS thanks co2.earth

I guess I’m intolerant. I have loathed Donald Trump since the ’80s. No need for me to wait a few years.

I never liked Trump on a personal level either. I like the direction he is taking the country, the great economy and muscular foreign policy. It was about time. GO TRUMP.

If you like that direction, I’m guessing you’re a… plumber?

Lol. You mean the economy he inherited from obama and destroying our postwar alliances to be closer with Putin and NK

But Supreme Court picks last a long time. Enough time to make sure environmental laws are changed for a lifetime. EV rebate extension isn’t looking too promising these days.

Michael Moore sleaze bag of the year. Love or hate Trump… I don’t care but when you mention that POS, I have to flush the whole point all together.

The difference is, when I bought my Bolt last year, the stripper $37,495 (actually much cheaper with the incentives that were going on) version was available to me. I could have bought that car way back at the beginning if I wanted it. GM said that was the entry price and they kept their word. As it was, I bought the base car with only four options added. Out the door with tax license, registration, etc for $39,000 and change. Then I got $10,500 in rebates and credits.

Of course. The Bolt has such small demand, they have to do that.

His point was don’t announce a price $35k with no clear intensions on delivering on that price for potentially years if ever.

“TM3 is going to be a stripper version, which means very few people will be ordering it… just as very few automobiles of any model in the $30k+ market segment are made as stripper versions.”

Elon also said that $35K version is also very competitive to everything else on the market. So, there is some expectation that it would be one of the best $35K vehicles on the market.

Much of auto news market also expected many of the so called Camry/Accord buyers to upgrade to base $35K model 3. Those buyers will certainly NOT plan to spend $50K on the car. They are the ones that expect to spend $35K and get some incentives to drop it to $30K if they can.

I went from an even cheaper Prius to the 3 and did spend > $50k. Not everyone looks at it from a pure economic perspective and I know a lot of Camry owners who can easily spend more for the right reason/s.

” It is a large part of why they got an unprecedented ~455,000 paid reservations”

Er, you made another typo. What you meant to write was:
It is the only reason they got an unprecedented ~455,000 interest free loans

Tesla DID NOT expect that many reservations! They were actually setting up for a more modest timeline for 2020. When they saw the demand was that crazy, they pushed up the timeline 2 years. Mistakes and severe opposition attempting to dry up capital market access for Tesla, have crunched that 2 year headstart down to 6 months. This forced a strategic change. Now, instead of going to the markets(which would have allowed them to eat some losses on the standard battery models, thus making them sooner) they’re going to immediate profitably to blunt the ‘Don’t lend them money because EVs can’t be made profitably’ attacks.

That, by definition, forces them to push the most profitable units out the door first, as Musk iterated in his tweet on the subject. I don’t, for a second, believe the nonsense that they won’t sell the base model at all. It’s coming, just not as soon as many would like. Which of course makes for great FUD until it arrives.

but, but they can’t sustain 2500/ week…..oh no, I mean 3500/week….oh no, I mean the 35k model is a unicorn!


Just because she dances for dollars doesn’t mean her version is a $35k. Perhaps she can afford to spend more money on a car than you realize. That’s why there’s Polestar, which has a name that pays homage to this occupation.

And when Elon doesn’t like the coverage he gets he’ll again claim trumpian fake news. Similarities are scary.

I will get the stopper car

If they hadn’t mentioned the entry price they are targeting, they wouldn’t have gotten all these reservations, prompting them to ramp production way faster than originally planned. And it wouldn’t have sent a signal to the *entire automotive industry* to significantly step up EV plans.

Sure, some reservation holders might be disgruntled — but in the grand scheme of things, it was a very, very good move.

Elon , Is Far From Foolish .

Overpromising and underdelivering is Elon’s MO. His $56k sedan wasn’t that different, except that they introduced it early and dropped it fast. Perhaps he learned from that and figured if he promised a price he can offer in 2022, nobody would be able to claim he lied..?

I am a bit concerned about this move – did not expect it so fast given how we have hear so much about the 420K reservations, etc. I think the main demand is for the $35K car which they know they can’t make at a profit so will demand keep up where they need to produce 5K/week and not build a $35K version? They will probably start selling international before considering the $35K version. And if they can’t make a $35K car profitably I wish they would just admit it and change the price – I would prefer them to be upfront. I would respect them saying – after 2 years we have learned we could not automate the assembly line as expected and we decided to give the M3 more features and as such, the new short range entry price is XXX.

Thing is, they still *do* believe they can make it profitably at $35,000 — just somewhat later in the ramp than originally planned.

I’m not too concerned about opening the order process. Clearly, they want to move as many of the higher-priced variants as possible, before turning to the cheaper ones — but that doesn’t imply they are getting too few of the higher-priced orders to be profitable at all…

You know what, Tesla is surfing the disinformation wave. Musk said long ago that the 35K$ price point for M3 would bring in ~25% margin. BUT what a “public” nonsense for the other car makers claiming (falsely) high and loud that they can’t make a profit out of their overpriced under-ranged EVs they do NOT want to sell.

So now Tesla comfortably sells his high margin versions while we patiently wait for the 35K$ ones, while the media continue to beat the non-profitable drum.

He never said that. He said 25% average gross margin for all trims.

Dr Gez I agree with you. But Tesla is in a dilemma – and acting straightforward as you propose would lead to many cancellations. Dont forget, they urgently need a large equity raise soon, within the next months, in order to survive (though they claim not to need it…). Admitting, that there is no price-point, where they can sell the TM3 at large quantities and at a profit would chase the investors away.

To open up the ordering to non reservation holders certainly seems to indicate that there are not enough US reservation holders ready to order and buy the expected production of $50k and up M3s during the next few quarters. this suggests that there must be a very high percentage of reservation holders planning or hoping to buy the base model and I imagine many of them had visions of getting the (full) Federal tax credit too.

In a year, in Q3-19, when production should be well ramped up and the tax credit is down to $1875, we will start getting a good idea of what sustained US demand for these vehicles really is. It will be interesting to see.

So Ars Technica says that Tesla has scrubbed all reference to a $35,000 price on the 3. Gone. Tesla rep is quoted, “This has nothing to do with a change in pricing.”
Who you going to believe? LOL!
I think there will be some 3’s sold at $35,000 but they will be a rare bird indeed.

Do you really want a $35,000 car without ACC ($5k option)? No, you don’t. So the base price is effectively $40,000. (any color ,as long as it’s black)

They should make the $35K very bare bones – ie no power seats/windows, cloth interior, no traffic, no streaming, no autopilot features, etc. If they could even make it a 10 inch screen they could do that. Most people will get at least one add on package of $2-4K and therefore increase the average selling price. If they are offering a $75K version of the car, the $35K version better be really bare bones

Dr. Gez,

No clue why the system sends every one of your comments to moderation. I messed with the settings. Someone that is banned must have a similar IP address or email. Sorry. I wish I could fix it. It would save me the hassle of having to constantly pull them out of the folder. But, at this point, nothing I can do is solving the issue. You can try to use a different email or name and see if it solves the problem. Otherwise, if I’m not in front of the computer, your messages may not go through until I check.

The Model 3 has to stay competitive and a barebones 35K edition would not be that.

For example: The 2019 Nissan Leaf 60 kWh version with similar performance and range is also expected to cost 35K. That will be probably a top trim with everything Nissan has (propilot…etc).

I very much doubt a 60 kWh Leaf at $35,000 will be a top trim… Unless they considerably reduce the entry price for the 40 kWh variant as well.

Also, even a very bare-bones Model 3, while missing some convenience features, would still be a way more premium car over all. (Performance, handling, etc.)

Similar performance? Good one. Comparing a front wheel drive hatch to a RWD sports sedan.

Isn’t that what every car maker is doing? The base price version being really bare-bones, so pretty much everyone goes for some extras? (And generally budgets that in from the beginning when looking at the base price…)

I have never had a car with ACC, and I very seldom use the cruise control my Volt does have, so, meh…
The one thing my base Volt doesn’t have that I would want is a back up camera. The rest of the upgrade option pack means relatively little to me. But I have to admit that heated seats (my car is garage kept so this isn’t a show stopper) and the longer range battery sound good, just not $5k/$9k good… It kind of sucks that useful options like heated seats get rolled in together with stuff that is a lot less useful, so you have to pay big bucks for a small upgrade you want and other stuff you couldn’t care less about.
And I do like the Henry Ford quote!

Backup cameras are now standard. They’re required by law. So no matter how stripped down a new vehicle is they’re going to have one.

I wish they had passed that law before 2013!

Actually, yes I do. I have driven now just shy of 40 years and never had that feature on any car I have driven, including rental cars. I would not pay $5000 for that one feature. It’s not with it and there are better uses for my money.

I think rental cars are the entry drug of car buying. I rented a Buick Lacrosse when I was in Montana and between the heads up display, heated seats and the back up camera, I didn’t miss my Volt at all. I just wish I could buy the HUD and the back up camera without getting stuff I don’t want.

The problem is, if they unbundled all the options, each single one would have to become more expensive… That’s an eternal trade-off very car maker and buyer has to struggle with.

I hear you, antrik, but a back up camera shouldn’t cost $5,000. Nor should heated seats or a HUD.

I rented a Buick Encore and it was one of the worst cars I’ve ever driven. A bulky ICE SUV with an anemic engine. It scared me any time I had to accelerate quickly to beat traffic (trying to turn across a busy street where the cars don’t stop coming). I think I might have been able to get it up to speed faster had I got out and pushed. Ok, maybe not.

Too bad about your poor experience with a rental Encore. I like my Lacrosse but that is apples to oranges. Car and Driver has the Encore doing 0-60 in 8.4 which isn’t bad but it doesn’t tell you what the 0-30 time was which is more important a lot of the time. There is an optional turbo (15 more hp) for just $895 which is a decent price for an important upgrade. That is an option I would pay to get.

I’m sure the majority of the 400k rez holders, in particular those who stood in line on March 31, 2016 for the promise of a $35k Tesla (before incentives) are just *thrilled* that anyone can now come off the street and get a $50k one, while they are being called chumps, idiots, and free-riders by Elon and his fanbois.

I applaud Tesla’s contribution to the EV revolution, but this is marketing deception at its worst. Borderline illegal, possibly beyond the line (and I’m sure someone is gearing up for a class-action lawsuit).
Furthermore, the “35k Tesla” charade has visibly dampened media and consumer enthusiasm for the revolutionary Chevy Bolt, and completely wrote off the 150-mile Nissan Leaf which is doing great sales-wise everywhere except in the US, where the Tesla narrative still dominates all media EV reporting, and hence the public perception of EVs.
So the Tesla Model 3 effect might end up being a net negative for EVs in the US in 2017-2018. 2019 can still be salvaged if they start making and selling the 220-mile version sooner rather than later.

Musk also said Tesla 3 will be capable of towing which it isn’t, so lack of $35K won’t be a surprise. At this point, it’s a wait and see game as to what will be lowest price offered. That’s why I got the BoltEV for now; waiting to see if there will be $35K version that offers few thousand extra option for full self driving, at least in traffic, because I want to nap in my car during traffic jams. If there’s no such beast, I’ll continue with my $22K post subsidy BoltEV.

I actually think Tesla will ship some “symbolic” $35K Model 3 at some point. But any “current/new” orders can just forget it. If one didn’t put reservation on it last year, then they wouldn’t be able to get it. I think Tesla was hoping that people would move up to the $50K version. But many are actually lured in with the $35K promise. That isn’t surprising. I knew that when I dropped my $1K in. I did it because I was willing to Tesla a $1K free loan and just in case they make it, I would have the first right of refusal if I choose to.

And with the $35K mark, it also pushes traditional automakers to do better. it sort puts a “ceiling” on what other 200+miles EV can charge. In a way, I think that is a good thing for consumers.

What I am truly wondering is that how many buyers are there willing to pay $50K+. That is the biggest question right now.

I have to challenge the “it also pushes traditional automakers to do better.” Mary Barra announced the Bolt’s coming already in early 2015, long before the Model 3 announcement. And unlike the Model 3, the Bolt came to market on time and on the promised price point.

Likewise, Nissan have always promised they’ll get to a 200-mile affordable Leaf sooner or later. Their problem has been of the “later, and limping a wee bit” type.

Anyway, Musk’s deceptive Model 3 strategy didn’t visibly encourage either of these two to do better. It mostly encouraged the US auto media and auto consumers to poo-pooh at any second-generation affordable EV not called Tesla.

Big accomplishment. A subcompact hatchback with no standard dc fast charging for $15k over a comparable ICE.

Yes, and this tells you that EVs in general will have to to get a lot cheaper (to make and to sell profitably) and upgrade their real utility (range, charging availability, less seasonal performance degradation, less range loss, etc) before they can compete with gasoline powered cars ESPECIALLY as the tax credits phase out.

Obviously, the Model 3 announcement didn’t affect cars that were already in the pipeline. It’s all these dozens of models announced by pretty much very major car maker over the past two years, that are driven by the Model 3 reservations success.

Assaf — What you don’t seem to understand is that Tesla has BROUGHT MORE BUYERS to buying lower priced EV’s like the Bolt than would have bought had Tesla never existed.

Tesla’s act as a Halo car for the entire EV industry, bringing up the entire EV industry.

If you believe that EV sales (including Bolt sales) would be as high as they are today if there were no Tesla to completely change how people view EV’s, you are badly mistaken.

Now, let’s do an honesty check. Do you understand that Tesla has brought more EV buyers to EV’s? Yes or no. Simple honesty check that should be easy to answer by an honest poster with a simple yes or no.

Not true anywhere outside the US. Nissan, Renault and Mitsubishi had fully detailed plans (and cars being sold) for affordable BEVs long before the Tesla S. Stop pretending the US is a leader in EVs — it’s not the largest market in either absolute or per-capita terms.
The Model 3 is unlikely to do well in Europe because of one very simple fact: It’s an extremely inefficient vehicle space-wise, having little cargo space, and inflexible volume usage, for the floorplan, being a sedan. The largest selling car category in Europe is compact hatchbacks (largest selling car is the Golf), just like the Leaf.

Do you understand that Tesla has brought more EV buyers to EV’s? Yes or no.

Of course — I don’t think anyone doubts that — but some more buyers isn’t the same as “halo car for the entire industry”, or your implication that without Tesla there would be no modern BEVs.

Stop the strawman arguments. I never stated nor implied that there would be “no modern BEVs” without Tesla. Only that Tesla has brought up the entire EV industry by showing that EVs aren’t what the critics had all been saying they were.

Tesla has flipped the old narrative of EV’s being slow glorified golf-cars on it’s head. 5 years ago you practically couldn’t read a story about any EV anywhere on the internet without a somebody chiming in about slow glorified golf-cars or some similar complaint about bringing a long extension cord, etc.

Do you understand that ALL companies selling EV’s have gained sales from Tesla shattering that meme and crushing it unto death?

None of these had any serious EV plans before Tesla unveiled the original Roadster. That was what proved that desirable EVs are actually possible; and that people actually want to buy them.

Wrong. Mitsubishi exhibited a production-intent version of the i-MiEV in 2006, and certainly was going for a mass-production vehicle before Tesla (of course, a low-end city car, not a long-range car — they don’t do $100K cars).
Tesla started with a very low production sportscar, which of course isn’t a criticism — as a startup, they couldn’t really do it any other way. However, The Leaf predates the Model S which was Tesla’s first mass-production car, and Ghosn decided on the project before there was any reason to think Tesla would survive to do anything other than the roadster.

Yes, the iMiev was being touted as production ready in 2006, but they didn’t pull the trigger.

I’m not sure you posted the link you intended to post. The link is about Nissan and the Leaf and how they started in 2007?

I’m still waiting for my iMiev Sport they called “production ready” in 2007.

FWIW, various estimates from Tesla as well as from surveys among reservation holders mentioned expected average selling prices between all variants to be somewhere in the range of $42,000 – $45,000. No need to sell mostly >$50,000 variants to be profitable…

The problem right now is you can’t even get one in that price range right now.

you’ve articulated this perfectly. Tesla Derangement Syndrome is clearly having ripple effects all over– and not all of them good. IONIQ, BOLT and LEAF are all fine cars, and probably not getting fair airplay given the obsession with a $35K that almost certainly will never come.

At least, if you really want a good EV for under $30k with credits, there’s now time for the “chumps, idiots and free-riders” to go buy a car that you can take deliver on and get the incentives.

This is like Osborne Effect Part Two.

So sad you have to stoop to writing FUD for a living.

Bad life choices I assume?

I’d wager Bolt is getting *more* “airplay” from often being touted as a Model 3 alternative.

Both Bolt and IONIQ are compliance cars, not producing enough to satisfy demand — clearly, they are not suffering from Model 3 reservations.

Assaf. Totally agree. The reservation system has been proven to be a scam. Stand in line 2 1/2 years ago, taking Elon at his word, expecting the mass market $35k car to now completely bypass the irrelevant reservation list. Money is the only factor in order time. If Tesla had stated that, reservations would have been much different and I may have bought a Bolt earlier rather than wait on the deception. I never would have imagined that GM would be more honest and do what they say, than Tesla. And the dishonestly hasn’t stopped there with the auto pilot safety record.

Remeber, 450k reservation is worldwide including Europe, Asia and Australia.

Yes, but those regions outside of US might/will pay more than US price.

Vast majority was in the US. See, e.g., here:


And there’s good reason to suspect that as the super-delayed timeline for Old World deliveries became evident, the overseas rez list dwindled more strongly than in North America.

Great link! And, 36,000 in Canada? I had no idea Fred Lambert had that many cousins…

(-: at the Lambert comment

At minimum the long-patient Europeans are going to get a bunch of tasty options in the next 12 months. Tesla might as well write it off and just focus on China. With more tariffs coming in Europe, I guarantee the Germans and French aren’t going to cede anything to a venture-funded wannabe on their home turf.

They made a major mistake in that thread. They falsely conflated Google AdWords with Google searches. They are not the same. Google AdWords is used for ad hosting, and is not connected to Google search results.

Anybody can purchase ad space based upon any keyword. GM or Apple or Nissan can bid to display ads on Tesla Model 3 keywords. And when a keyword becomes popular with advertisers, more content providers publish or republish content that contains those popular keywords. Advertising can be isolated by geolocating too, where ads are hosted based upon country codes.

So all that they have unearthed is that there is a lot of money in the US surrounding content and ads that use Tesla Model 3 keywords.

400,000 of which were apparently for a $27,500 net-cost car

If the timelines are correct, it seems likely that the vast majority of Model 3 reservation holders are waiting for the $35k base version. Even if you figure 5000 cars a week for 4 months, that’s less than 1/4 of the reservations they have.

About half of reservations are estimated to be non-US, though — so by that extrapolation, perhaps half of US reservation holders would be waiting for base variant… Unless they decided to ship long-range variant outside US before starting base variant production.

I think that Tesla made a mistake.

Tesla is producing the Tesla Model 3 at their plant in Fremont (California).

There is not much space left there to expand the production capacity of the Tesla Model 3.

Tesla should have made the decision (years ago) to build a separate factory where they would be producing the Tesla Model 3.

Where would they have to build this factory?

Perhaps somewhere near the Gigafactory in Nevada?

That just would have been great.

I’m not so sure of that. Supposedly they already have trouble finding qualified workers for the Gigafactory in Nevada — that would only get worse if they produced cars there as well… What’s more, ramping production with an entirely new workforce, without any experienced workers on site, would be even harder than it is. (That too is already a problem at the Gigafactory…)

It’s true that the Freemont location seems to be getting a bit cramped — but it doesn’t look like it’s a serious problem yet at this point…

Elon, why not make a TESLA-day in three months or so, similar to the amazon shopping day. That day is open for base model buyers only, so those who can afford only the base model, can have a shot!

Good to see a lot more people accepting the reality that Tesla cannot ship more than a token number of $35k M3s. They’re barely staying afloat while selling $50k M3s.

It’s sad that so many people have waited around for a car they’ll never get. Especially since they could have been driving a Bolt for the last two years. Time to jump off that M3 waiting list and get a $35k Bolt before GM’s tax credit allowance expires!

Interview with Bloomberg (By Tom Randall) on July 13th, 2018

Elon Musk:

“A lot of the hoped-for automation was counterproductive.”

“Because we were huge idiots and didn’t know what we were doing.”

That’s very honest, and that says a lot.

Elon Musk shouldn’t have said that Tesla would be producing 5,000 copies of the Tesla Model 3 by December 2017.

He should have said that they would be ramping production steadily during 2017, 2018 and 2019. And that Tesla would be providing updates on the level of production numbers in their Shareholder Letter in every quarter.

Don’t give the media and others a huge stick that they can use later on to hit you with, when it later on appears that you will not be able to meet your timelines.

I agree he probably shouldn’t exaggerated the speed of the ramps. They’ve basically been 6 months behind schedule the entire time. In other words the speed of the ramp was about accurate, but the time line was pushed up six months. So it looks like they’re “missing” a bunch of goals, when those goals were always a pipe dream and reality is about what we’ve seen.

With that said, I wonder if the pressure on Tesla to deliver to keep investors mollified might not have played a part.

When Tesla started production of the Tesla Model S (2012), there was this “cheaper” version of the Tesla Model S (with the 40 kWh battery pack).

They cancelled it later on, because too few customers chose this “cheaper” version.

In those days Tesla as a brand was not established as much as it is today.

Therefore, I think that Tesla should have offered a “cheaper” version of the Tesla Model S (with a 40 kWh battery pack) as from January 2018.

Tesla Model S 40D would be great for people who don’t need that much range anyway. But they want to drive the popular Tesla Model S.

Besides the Tesla Model 3.

Let the people decide what they would want to buy.

Both models will sell in great numbers.

A 40 kWh Model S, that sells at the same margin, would only be some $5,000 cheaper than a 75 kWh Model S at current battery prices. Virtually nobody would buy a car with roughly half the range for $65,000 instead of $70,000.

Why would Tesla offer a 40 kWh Model S when customers ALREADY spoke with the 60 kWh version greatly underselling larger battery packs by a wide margin? And it wasn’t until Tesla increased the base battery size to 70 kWh that demand for the base model went up. Then when they bumped up the base model to 75 kWh, base model sales increased yet again.

70 kWh + 75 kWh Model S/X sales have greatly dwarfed the original 60 kWh sales.

If anything, the pool of unmet demand is at the higher end of battery size, where they could instantly sell a ton of 120 kWh Model S/X units if they swapped to a more kWh dense battery pack. For example if they only had a new battery format they could change to… Expect a jump in Model S/X sales when GEN II Model S/X redesign jumps in range across the board with 2170 batteries, while cutting prices at the same time.

Tesla should have chosen to primarily ONLY produce the Tesla Model 3 with many options as standard, and therefore with a higher price-tag ($60,000?).

And ONLY those customers who would want to buy such a high optioned Tesla Model 3 should have been allowed to make a reservation in the first round.

Later on there should have been more rounds when customers could make a reservation for a Tesla Model 3 (with less options as standard).

By doing it this way, Tesla would have created separate pools of customers.

The production capacity need to be planned years in advance. The whole point of the reservations was to gauge demand way in advance, so they could invest accordingly.

The whole point of reservations was to convince shareholders and Panasonic to invest multiple billions.

That’s part of the ramping equation of course, but *not* the entire point.

Tesla had no idea that they would get that many reservations when they opened up for deposits. Trying to say what they should have done as if they should have planned for nearly half a million reservations is the ultimate in arm chair quarterbacking.

Besides, why would Tesla FORCE customers to choose between different trim levels by having multiple reservations? Why FORCE them into pools where they can’t change their mind? That is just silly.

Tesla unveiled the Tesla Model 3 in March 2016.

That was too soon.

It might have been better if Tesla had done that in 2017.

You’re on a roll! Most of the ideas you posted would have resulted in Tesla failing by now. They needed to generate hype, knowing full well they could not deliver.

Hype was not required at all.

They knew that they have great products:
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X

The focus should be on how to sell more of them.

You are seriously complaining that Tesla is the company that needs to focus on selling more EV’s? Have you SEEN the Plug-in Sales Scorecard?

Complaining about too much hype, when they DELIVER on their hype with such a huge US sales gap over all the other companies is missing the forest for the trees.

Tesla would probably not be in business today if they had admitted in 2016 that it would take them two years to ramp up M3 production and that the real base price would be $50k.

They wanted to ramp up in 1 1/2 years, it’s taking them half a year longer. Big deal.

The base version is taking another half year longer. Again, big deal.

And no, they wouldn’t have been out of business if they hadn’t gotten all these reservations. They could just stick with their existing vehicle programs, and be perfectly fine. It’s the crazy number of Model 3 reservations that prompted them to make the risky large investment in the first place.

LOL!! Only a complete ignorant fool would complain about the #1, #2, and #3 sales leader being the ones failing to deliver cars.

You know who should be delivering who are failing to deliver? All the ICE car companies who had decades long leads on EV research before Tesla even was created. All the ICE car companies who have massively larger resources available to them, and all the existing factory space they could be using to build plug-ins, but are utterly failing to keep up.

And yet, they haven’t delivered the only car that matters…. a 200+ mile BEV at $35k.

LMAO, “the only car that matters”!!!
I guess the hundreds of thousands of other Tesla’s produced to get to the point of being on the verge of a base model SR Model 3 don’t count in ClownCIE troll-land?

Nope, anyone can produce a $50-120k EV. Making one that regular people can buy is what’s important.

Resorting to name calling is usually a sign that someone is desperate because they know they have no facts on their side.

Really, so where are all those $50-120k EVs that “anyone” can produce???

Your fact-free FUD is the sign that you are desperate.

Fact: Tesla has not shipped the $35k car they promised. They also promised it would be the best $35k car available.

Ever since they released the details showing the $35k car would be stripped and only come in one color it’s been obvious they can’t sell it at a profit and hope no one wants it. Now they’re opening sales to non-reservation holders because most of the people left holding reservations don’t want a $50k car.

There is going to be an epic “I told you so” moment for one of us when the truth comes out in 6-12 months!

Once again troll, Tesla never “promised” to ship their base SR Model 3 at the beginning and I’m sure it will be the best $35,000 car any intelligent person could buy when it does ship. What Tesla is doing is what the laggard, legacy OEMs (who would much prefer to make and sell you low-mileage Trucks/SUVs or “CleanDiesels”) have not done yet and show almost no signs of doing any time soon and that is to scale up very large production capacity of compelling, all-electric vehicles. Tesla is relentlessly driving down their costs of everything but especially the battery packs through unprecedented scale and innovation an example of which is that fact that they have already beat the upcoming NMC 811 in expensive cobalt reduction. So now that they now have the lowest cost per KWH and most capable battery packs and by far the greatest capacity they can build their vehicles by the hundreds of thousands and relatively soon into the millions which they will with the M3 SR and the upcoming Model Y. The only “I told you so” moment here is the FACT that you and the other trolls here were gleefully predicting Tesla’s imminent demise only… Read more »

I never said they promised to deliver it at the beginning, only that they they promised to deliver it. I’m saying they will never deliver more than a token number of $35k M3s.

I’ve also never predicted their demise. I think they’ll probably survive.

BS, you and the other lemmings said they were headed to bankruptcy.

Maybe you should go and work at Faraday Future. I’m sure they would be happy with that estimate that anyone can make those vehicles. I think the evidence is in that starting a new car company is a tough job, something everyone should applaud Tesla for doing. No matter what price point you aim for, there’s nothing easy about making a new car.

As someone put it, if Elon promises the moon, nobody can complain if he is a year late — you still get THE MOON.

(Or something along these lines — can’t find the original quote…)

LMFAO off at ClownCIE!
You were one of the serial anti-Tesla troll lemmings (along with some of the other loser trolls posting their FUD today here) that predicted that Tesla’s bankwuptcy was a matter of days several months ago.
What a reality-distorting fool you are. I hope you sell everything you have and put it into more Tesla shorts.

Please link the post where I said that. I have no stake in Tesla, so I don’t care about their finances. I was actually defending Tesla’s false advertising by saying they really had no other choice.

I do care about them advertising a $35k car that they clearly have no intention of delivering beyond token numbers.

See above: they needed to know demand in advance. And it was *crucial* in spurning on other car makers to do serious EV investments. Opening reservations a year later would have delayed *the entire EV market* (outside China) by a year.

Tesla actually was responding to CUSTOMER DEMAND when they started taking reservations in March 2016. It wasn’t Tesla endlessly posting “Take My Money Already” memes, it was customers who demanded that, long before there were even images or a firm price or any specs at all. So pretending that people made reservations based on ANY of those factors alone is revisionist history.

If Tesla hadn’t listened to customers and started accepting reservations, you would right now be second guessing them and attacking them for not listening to customers and taking reservations when everyone was demanding that Tesla take their money.


Tesla “should have” built 1000-2000 Model 3s per week on manual assembly lines (like the one in the tent) starting July 2017 while running a conventional qualification and testing program for a conventional 5000/week automated line In parallel. The second line would have come on line without drama a couple months ago, enabling the 35,000 base model and good overall margins.

But a genius like Musk would never stoop to copying from a dinosaur company like Toyota or Ford. That would mean admitting he’s not the smartest automobile manufacturing engineer on the planet. Along with being the smartest rocket scientist, AI expert, mass transit planner, solar roof designer, financial genius and philosopher, of course.

So he fires those who say he needs to follow the procedures developed over decades by manufacturing powerhouses and we end up with cars built in the parking lot.

If he’d just listen to the “dinosaur companies'” wisdom, he would have never accomplished *anything*. Sure, *sometimes* it turns out that they were indeed right — but that doesn’t mean he should just accept the status quo as truth a priori, rather than attempting to do things a new way. Other things presented as truth were that EVs don’t work; that starting a new car company is hopeless; that reusing rockets is impossible/pointless; and so on.

No thanks! Whoever order now will not get any federal tax credit when they get it! The original Craze was because people think they can get $7500 tax credit to make it 27500. Hey Americans are cheap! But Elon Musk played you ! Sorry to poke the bubble! Face the reality!

“you’re still out of luck if you want that base $35,000 model”

FUD! Go Elon!

I saved all Tesla fans a few miutes typing this as they tear up waiting for their base Model 3 car they stood on line for back in 2016.

Hey, right on que admitted Tesla-shorter Trollftf joins the FUD party!

I feel sorry for those reservation holders who plucked down their hard earned deposit money two years ago for a $35k Model 3 who will have to wait longer then any Joe Blow ordering one today.

Those who hold out for the bare bones stripped model will likely have the rarest and most collectible of Tesla M3 in the future.

“Currently, according to Tesla, the company estimates that delivery times could be, in consecutive order: 1-3 months for a rear-wheel-drive version, with a long-range battery and premium interior”

How can this be, when Tesla has 400k backorders? When I cancelled my Model 3 reservation in March, Tesla was projecting delivery in the April to June timeframe (1-3 months). But if I order one today, it’s still only a 1-3 month wait? [Not to mention less money…]

Something smells here.

Elon needs more funds to help donate to the Republicans, with their PAC Protect the House.

He wants to retain his position as one of the top fifty donors, so that the Republicans can continue to maintain control of the House, in the upcoming election.

A Tsunami of Model 3 Cancellations, may free up some spots for some conservatives, to expedite their order for their first EV, on the Tesla reservation books.

At least it’s available in Pennsylvania.