UPDATE: Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended By Consumer Reports

FEB 21 2019 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 224

According to Tesla Model 3 owners, the car has some reliability concerns.

***Update: We’ve embedded a Consumer Reports video below in which they discuss their reasons for recommending vehicles. You may want to skip ahead to the 9:31 mark. Hat tip MTN Ranger!

Consumer Reports reached out to us this week to let us know that it was making some updates based on vehicle reliability data. The Model 3 was one of a handful of cars to be impacted by the updated information. According to CR:

The Tesla Model 3 and Chrysler 300 are among the six cars that can no longer be “Recommended” by Consumer Reports (CR) due to declining reliability, the organization announced at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., before the respected Washington Automotive Press Association.

As you may or may not be aware, CR has been up and down when it comes to Model 3. However, when the car lost its recommendation (much like the Tesla Model S and X in the past), the automaker was able to make “fixes” rather quickly in order to help appease CR. Tesla’s over-the-air software updates have proven advantageous on numerous occasions, but in this most recent case, software fixes will not help.

Consumer Reports factors predicted reliability into its overall score. The score also includes road tests, safety technology, crash test ratings, and owner satisfaction ratings. According to CR, vehicles must earn the highest overall scores in their categories to be “Recommended” by CR. Interestingly, even though customers are more satisfied with the Tesla Model 3 than any other car and have pushed its score up to the top of the luxury compact car class, it seems they are still reporting some recurring issues.

Senior Director of Automotive Testing at Consumer Reports Jake Fisher shares:

Consumers expect their cars to last—and not be in the repair shop. That’s why reliability is so important. The latest results from CR’s exclusive reliability survey give us more real-time information on 2018 vehicles—so we can make more robust predictions about 2019 models people will buy.

 Our predictions are not a guarantee that any individual model will be reliable, but we believe that consumers who chose vehicles with a higher rating will be less likely to experience serious issues with their car.

The recent report shares that Model 3 owners have reported loose body trim and glass defects, which lowered the car’s overall score enough to take it off the publication’s list of recommended vehicles. The Model 3’s new score drops it down 11 spots in CR’s updated rankings.

As mentioned above, Tesla can’t work to fix these issues via over-the-air software updates. However, the automaker doesn’t rely on traditional model years. Tesla has made it clear that changes are made to its vehicles’ hardware and even materials as needed. Fortunately, Tesla has been able to address issues in the past and begin building cars that are void of the noted problems.

At this point, it’s just another waiting game to see if and how the Silicon Valley electric car maker responds to Consumer Reports’ latest concerns.

Consumer Reports concludes:

Overall Scores for all 33 brands included in Consumer Reports’ 2019 Brand Report Card are available in CR’s Annual Auto Issue or by visiting CR’s 2019 Autos Spotlight online at http://www.CR.org/spotlight.

Source: Consumer Reports

Categories: Tesla

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224 Comments on "UPDATE: Tesla Model 3 No Longer Recommended By Consumer Reports"

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CR is all about looking out for the consumer, and as such, their reports should be seen as constructive critique and actioned accordingly.

I would bet that Tesla is already aware of these issues and has resolved them or is in the process of resolving them. No one thought that they would be making perfect cars right out of the gate and the work is covered by the warranty and it does not leave you stranded on the side of the road. So this downgrade is just a bump in the road.

Tesla has apparently already responded saying that most of the issues raised have already been resolved. Assuming that’s true, I guess it’ll take a little while for the improvements to filter through enough for CR to change their mind.

To the contrary, Tesla has shown me that their focus is on performance and safety, and quality and reliability don’t make it to their list of priorities.

Their service bandwidth has been an issue for a while now, and I see literally nothing happening to improve that.

CR is NOT about looking out for consumers. They are a business, they have to show salacious bit to sell their magazine. Since they don’t have advertising money, they have to make the “scandals” even juicier to sucker in people.

Case in point, the butchering they did to Suzuki Samurai is just as bad as Dateline TV show staged fakery.

Here’s a video summary of CR spewing fake story to raise money for themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PgOgm9rd8k

Having to back to the 1980’s to point an issue with CR weakens your argument. It is very unlikely that the main people in CR behind that are still at CR.

This is like pointing out the 1975 Ford Pinto gas tank ruptures/fire in crashes as a reason to not buy Ford products. As if the people responsible for the poor gas tank location (and the execs) are still there.

That comment makes no sense. Business models that depend on advertisements have to prove consumer engagements. Therefore they need the sensational headlines and stories to get the clicks or views.

Businesses that depend on advertisement have to prove themselves to the advertisers not direct to consumer. CR has to appeal to gullible public for funds, and the best way that’s done is to make the most sensational headline possible. See them milking the fake Suzuki Samurai story for decades.

You might say it hurts CR in the long run if they lie, but I don’t think there’ direct acknowledgement by CR about complete fabrication of Suzuki Samurai story to this day. Yet, many gullible people still think “CR is all about looking out for the consumer”

Yes we’re all gullible

Absolutely right, I do not believe them one word. What they say about the Model 3 has definitely happend to some cars, but they do not have the numbers for the Model 3 fleet. They make assumptions on a very shaky basis.

Unless the same people writing the article for CR said the model 3 was great then you’d believe them.

In another 2-3 months, the same people will be saying the Model 3 is great and that they are again recommending the car. That’s the flip-flopping, attention-grabbing pattern that CR as been using in its ratings of Tesla cars for a few years now.

I guess it’s working for them in promoting more magazine sales and clicks on their websites, because they keep doing it!

And to think I used to have great respect for Consumer Reports. 🙁

yeah, it hurts, but this is not Car/Driver or others that have an agenda for their customers (legacy car makers).
In this case, it is CR, whose customers, ARE the same customers of tesla.

CR, the “HOLY GRAIL” … lol … Exactly How Accurate is CR ? Are They “Perfect People” ? They’ve been Flip Flopping so much Lately that I cannot fully believe anything they say anymore… 🙁

I am not sure any car company cares what CR says. I certainly don’t.

CR pointed out the issues Model 3 had with emergency braking in rapid succession. Tesla noted that, and fixed it OTA. Constructive criticism is a good thing.

Well elon obviously cares and I assume his opinion matters

Yes, your post made it very clear how much you don’t care… 😉

as a service manager of a VW dealership in a real past life I had to put with the CR crowd. The 1983 Rabbit wasnt a very good car and not because of how it was built. but I would look at test drives by CR and often they would say something like their sample car had 20 defects. or 15. or whatever. when we would prep cars for deliveries we rarely found any. and the proof came from rarely being return for factory defects even as shitty as the car was. so I had mechanics look harder. never ever found a car with 5 sample defects. I don’t know what they were counting. and then it starts to appear that the cars CR likes seem to be the same as the customers that read it. I dont think they bought the cars they owned because CR told them I think CR uses their readers to decide what cars are ok. and this has been true for a several decades. and the readers of CR are often an odd bunch. and definitely anti-Detroit. I have had 5 Chevy Volts for a total of 170k miles or more. they have seen… Read more »

Which car company do you own?

CR is biased. it readers are biased. Its data is flawed and many of its conclusions are flawed. and based on their bias.

Yep, and since Tesla is a US company making vehicles in the US they will be biased against it. Truth hurts.

Or maybe they shorted Tesla stock and LOST,,ever thought of that?

Most of the Model 3 complaints are about fit and finish. It is unfortunate that the quality control at the Tesla factory did not catch most of these. Seems like these issues would have been easy to spot at the finish of the assembly line and would have resulted in much better consumer satisfaction. However I assume these issues have been addressed for some time now and the Consumers Reports data is based largely on earlier production. Is there any way to confirm the age of cars reporting problems at Consumers Reports?

On the other side of the coin, I think reliability issues should be graded on severity, that is cost of repairs. Does Consumer Reports do this?

It’s too bad that media outlets like Consumer Reports have to serve as Tesla’s defacto Q&A team, as opposed to an actual internal Tesla Q&A team. Without CR, Model 3s may still be driving around today with defective brakes.

Just like the panel gaps these issues are just a temporary bump in the road.

Mine is a VIN 190K and the panel gaps and door-to-door alignments are perfectly fine. I specifically knew the history and paid attention when I took delivery.

Including myself, I personally know 6 people who bought Teslas late September or Q4. Only one reported some software issues. All have heard about things like panel gaps and looked for those

Yep, VIN 194K LR RWD Blue and took possession late November. Nearly perfect is every way. My wife and I went through the paint, panels, function everything was perfect. All we found were three light parallel scratches over the driver’s side headlight. So faint that I couldn’t feel them with my thumb nail.
It was funny when my wife opened the back door and started laughing about a great mud bath. The space behind the door handle was full of mud. When she opened the door it got all over her hand. Our delivery agent said he would have the scratches rubbed out to get rid of them. When he came back he said it would be a while, he told them it was embarrassing to have the door handles full of mud so he asked them to give the car a complete was as well. He got a call about 35 minutes later telling him the car was ready.
Good service and the scratches were gone as well. 4000 miles later and still perfect as I would expect.

Mine is about 89k, built about August 2018, and has few defects apart from a few spots where the paint has a couple tiny bumps. Panel gaps are great, rarely have a software glitch and it’s never more than a minor, brief annoyance. The glass is great too.

Everything is temporary

Once Tesla fixes them and people stop reporting the problems, I’m sure CR will give their recommendation back. Maybe the problems are fixed, maybe they’re not, but CR recommendations are based over reports over a period of time. It wouldn’t make sense for them to only look at the most recent VINs, nor should we expect them to precisely track the state of Tesla’s manufacturing on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis.

Tesla put themselves in this situation by failing to do QA testing before shipping vehicles to customers. Probably because they cared more about meeting Elon’s quotas and producing as many cars during the first phase of the Tax credit sunsetting in Q4 than they did about quality.

Well luckily we also have you for a Tesla watchdog, too.

Yeah… a sheepdog that never gets a haircut! 😉

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Like GM’s fabulous and impeccable QA check before leaving the factory?

“GM recalls Chevrolet Sonic models to check for missing brake pads”
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/gm-recalls-chevrolet-sonic-models-check-missing-brake-pads

To say Tesla has little or no QA (not quality and assurance, quality assurance) because there have been some problems with the cars is disingenuous at best.

The complaints divide into serious issues, like water retention in the rear bumper, to much less important noise about how many more thousands of an inch make an appropriate panel gap.

Panel gaps matter to fit and finish warriors!

#PanelGapsMatter

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

LMAO

Yes I for one don’t care if my $70k car looks like it was assembled by Stevie Wonder!

Who says Stevie Wonder can’t assemble a car?!

My apologies to Stevie

There speaks someone who wants Tesla to die, and wouldn’t be caught dead driving a Tesla car.

Two Model 3’s reported as having the rear bumper ripped off when driving thru deep water doesn’t count as a “serious issue”. Nor do 1.5 – 2 mm variances in panel gaps; those are perfectly normal for most cars, despite what the Tesla bashers keep telling us. Equally unimportant is the minor fit-and-finish issues, the “loose body trim”, mentioned in this article.

Another source of data, the Facebook Model 3 group has not been reporting any kind of large problem with fit and finish, quite the opposite.

I totally agree. Took delivery of a TM3 (VIN 190K) a month ago. The issues I had corrected have been very minor, and I’m nitpicky.

But in the interest of balance and disclosure, here they are – 1) light scratch in clearcoat on hood (buffed out in 1 min by service center), 2) trunk seal bulge (seal reinstalled at service center, another 5 min fix), 3) steering wheel not perfectly straight when going straight (most people wouldn’t notice, but I got it fixed), and a window seal that was crimped (fixed by ranger visiting my house in 5 min).

So yes, some issues that Tesla should have addressed at QC, although most people probably wouldn’t even notice.

I have had similar issues with Acura and Hondas as well (interior trim pieces installed incorrectly that needed to be replaced, stereo needed to be replaced, dust trapped under paint, etc – all noted within the first few weeks of ownership).

“…I think reliability issues should be graded on severity, that is cost of repairs. Does Consumer Reports do this?”

No they don’t; CR just counts the number of times a car owner takes his car in to the shop for an unscheduled check or repair, regardless of how serious or trivial the problem is.

That’s another problem with how CR rates cars, and how it’s skewed against Tesla. More expensive cars have more parts and more things that can go wrong; therefore, on average more expensive cars have more things which do go wrong. It’s Murphy’s Law in action.

CR makes no attempt at all to adjust for this disparity, and most of the cars CR rates are more down-market. CR shouldn’t be criticized for concentrating more on less expensive cars; they have a limited budget, and can’t buy everything, so they should buy mostly less expensive cars, especially those which more people buy.

But CR’s rating system should also account for the fact that most of the cars in their reliability surveys cost appreciably less than Tesla cars. Properly, Tesla’s cars should be compared to other cars in the same price class. So far as I can see, that factor is completely ignored.

What do they recommended instead of a Tesla Model 3?

Any gas car, instead. They are down on evs in general. No place to charge them. It’s a poisoned well, in regards to evs at CR, since their shake-up, all the pro or even agnostic views of Tesla are gone, now they are all decidedly against them.

They’ve been down on EV’s, Plug-ins and Hybrids Across the Board, except for possibly the Prius. And no environmental impact is recognized either.

Well I agree that environmental impact should be something customers think about but I’m not sure that really comes into consumer reports which is supposed to basically be a staight review of the car and not the bigger picture

Don’t forget. The managed to get low 30 MPGs on a Prius

To be fair, the Prius is one of the top 10 recommended cars in CR’s newest ratings.

But then so is the Ford F150 pickup.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/02/21/consumer-reports-best-cars-2019-subaru-toyota-dominate-top-picks/2936504002/

Exactly. Shouldn’t they be comparing the Model 3 to other similar EVs? If they can find one?

The Bolt EV is recommended so it’s not that they are down on EVs.

Just down on poorly built cars with Q&A issues.

Can’t be right, if CR actually recommended the Bolt EV. 😛

CR has two separate reliability and usability aspects. To get “Recommended” it has to be at least “average” reliability and also do well in their review (which is separate from reliability). With the Model 3, it dropped the “Recommended” rating as the reliability must be below average. No real surprise there. However, below average reliability doesn’t necessarily mean much.

I think my Clarity PHEV is one of CR’s lowest ranked plug ins right now as it has needed several repairs in first year. Nothing that was really a problem to me, and I am happy with the car, but it has been the least reliable car I have owned in number of service trips in a year. I think long term reliability will be fine. Similar with Model 3, these are likely fit/finish issues that require a “repair” so it makes a big ding in reliability survey.

Exactly. CR generally counts only the number of unplanned trips to the service center, not how serious any issues with the cars are. Now, that’s not to say CR doesn’t take note of serious safety issues, but that’s not why CR refuses to recommend so many plug-in EVs.

Yeah, well I don’t recommend CR.
They just came out with a survey, and they can’t spin that, that says people are the most satisfied with their purchase of the Model 3 than any other vehicle.
When their panels discuss Tesla, not a single one of them would get one.
The former pro Tesla CR people, are now gone. They’re lame.

It’s a vicious cycle. News outlet praises Tesla = TSLA zealots rejoice.
When the same outlet posts something critical, the pitchforks come out along with the accusations of being TSLA shorts/FUD spreaders.
Then the outlet publishes something positive, and once again all is forgotten and nothing but love in the air.
rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
It’s like an abusive relationship between a couple.

Or: Media outlet shows itself to be too pro EV. Fossil fuel industry, big auto, etc takes notice. Influences media outlet. Entities like the Koch brothers haven’t exactly been silent on their intention to kill the rEVolution and they have a lot of cash to burn towards that cause. Media seems like the most obvious first thing to attack, if it has mainstream relevance. Tesla is a huge disruptor. To think that the other multi billion dollar industries which are being disrupted would sit idly by, while THEIR profits dwindle would be rather naive. Sounds to me like Consumer Reports just joined the cesspool, expect all other media outlets with negative EV/Tesla bias to gobble it up.

That has to be what it is it is absolutely impossible that the model 3 has any fit-and-finish issues of any kind or any other problems that virtually everyone else on the planet has acknowledged. It has to be that the same company who recommended the car but now’s has seen issues with it so changes are recommendation it absolutely has to be a conspiracy let’s not use Ockham’s razor let’s get crazy……

1. I think most reasonable people will agree that when a car model is rated #1 for customer satisfaction, then a consumer advocacy organization dis-recommending that model car over minor cosmetic issues is not merely wrong, it’s a pretty strong indication of something very wrong with the ratings system.

2. No reasonable person would deny that Tesla had serious fit-and-finish problems with the Model 3 last year, and in fact also fit-and-finish problems with the Model X a few years ago, when it was new. But given how CR flip-flops on its ratings for the Model S and the Model 3 every few months, then gives themselves another excuse to splash “TESLA!” across their cover and their websites when they flip-flop yet again to a “Recommended” rating, I think it’s safe to conclude that fit-and-finish problems from several months ago are not the real reason why CR has once again dis-recommended the Model 3.

Same for you, Bro.
Any negative news on the Bolt, you’re the first to spin doctor it. You’re the GM zealot.
Anything even positive about Tesla and you’ll poo on it.

It’s clear your agenda isn’t for EVs but to promote one manufacturer at the expense of another.

spoken like a true TSLA zealot. Lol
So very wrong in so many ways.
I can admit to being a GM/Bolt fanboy. Fanboys still can acknowledge faults with the thing they are a fan of (the Bolt’s neutered fast charging rates in the cold, aggressive taper, etc).
The TSLA fanbois (with an i) can admit no fault, and automatically attack anything that is even mildly critical of their Elon-mobile like lemmings. People like you fall into the latter category. Too intoxicated on the TSLA koolaid!

A topic like this was bound to get the trolls to crawl from under their rocks.

He wouldn’t miss it for the world.

When GM builds EV car or truck better then Tesla then you can brag
,right now they have Nothing..
And Ive been driving Chevy trucks Camaros Trans ams for past 40 years

“The TSLA fanbois (with an i) can admit no fault…”

Then by your definition, there isn’t one single Tesla fanboi among the Üsual Suspects posting comments to InsideEVs.

I’m proud to be a Tesla fanboy, or fanboi… whichever way you want to spell it. I certainly don’t hesitate to criticize Tesla when I think they deserve it. And I haven’t noticed even the most ardent Tesla cheerleader here who doesn’t at least occasionally take Tesla to task for one thing or another.

You mean like the vicious cycle of GM employee MadBro praising all GM EV(s) soon to be one model only, and simultaneously spreading hate and FUD against all other OEM;s EVs???

Yes it’s a vicious cycle. However, it’s not just news outlets, but also automotive tear-down specialist like Sandy Munro. When he criticized the build quality of the Model 3, Tesla cult members shouted Sandy Munro sucks, and he’s a biased FUD-spreading Tesla basher! When he complimented/praised the design of the Model 3, Tesla cult members did an about fact face and shouted Sandy Munro is awesome and very wise, and his words should be treated like gospel!

And the Tesla death cult called Sandy a genius early on, now they say he was paid off or threatened into changing his tune.

I’m not a big Tesla fan but I take Sandy at his word either way. to be honest I think he is probably much more knowledgeable with things like build quality and assembly than the electronics which is what he praised about Tesla

You obviously don’t have an informed opinion on the subject. Sandy brought a heat exchanger from a Model 3 to an interview, just so he could show it off and talk about what an improvement that was over what other auto makers are doing. He had similar praise for the improved efficiency, smaller size, and lower cost of the Model 3’s electric motor, which Sandy compared to motors from the Chevy Bolt EV and the BMW i3.

For anyone who is truly interested in the subject, I recommend the video in the article linked below. I don’t normally watch talking-heads videos this long, let alone recommend them to others, but this is a notable exception to the rule. Sandy Munro is a very interesting speaker when he talks about something he’s excited about! (But you might want to fast forward when someone else is talking.)

https://insideevs.com/munro-tesla-model-3-china-profit/

DoggyDogWorld,

I don’t recall that ever happening. Can you point to a single comment in this forum to back up your claim that Sandy was “was paid off or threatened into changing his tune”? I’ve just checked the comments n the InsideEVs articles where Sandy says positive things about the the Model 3 and there was not a single person claiming Sandy was “paid off or threatened.”

Below are the links to articles where Sandy compliments/praises the Model 3.

https://insideevs.com/teardown-expert-test-drives-tesla-model-3-no-longer-compares-it-to-90s-kia-video/

https://insideevs.com/munro-tesla-model-3-china-profit/

https://insideevs.com/munro-tesla-model-3-profitable/

https://insideevs.com/tearing-into-a-tesla-model-3/

Sandy Munro had a startling road-to-Damascus conversion experience as he test drove the Model 3 and finished his teardown analysis. Sandy now describes himself as a Tesla fanboy… despite the fact that he still has nothing good to say about the build quality of the car body. It’s everything else about the Model 3 that has him so excited that he just bubbles over with enthusiasm!

Yeah, Sandy has radically changed his overall viewpoint of the Tesla Model 3… and I’ve radically changed my opinion of hisopinions. Hmmm, it’s almost like the two are causally related…

I have a healthy respect for someone willing to admit he was wrong about an important subject. How about you, dude?

“‘When the facts change, I change my mind,’ John Maynard Keynes once observed in a debate. ‘What do you do, sir?’ Why, sir, they take no notice of changed facts and so are untroubled by such questions.” — Rex Murphy

I have to give it to you. You are consistently down on Tesla

“Then the outlet publishes something positive, and once again all is forgotten and nothing but love in the air.”

Poor MadBro. He just can’t get past his obsession with having to settle for a Bolt EV instead of a Tesla Model 3!

Speaking for myself, as a Tesla fan, I certainly don’t forget how CR keeps flip-flopping on recommending (or not) Tesla cars, nor do I forget how erratic, arbitrary, and even self-contradictory their reviews have been in the past.

Once respect has been lost, it’s not likely to return quickly.

I love my Model 3, but I’m not blind that it has had more issues than any new car I have owned. I have had two major “bugs” that turned off auto emergency braking/regen/traction control/steering assist and another where the charging port stopped working (plus the magnet on the chargeport cover fell off). I have had one service center and three mobile ranger visits in the last 9 months (frunk latches broke, interior problems). I get almost daily bugs where the screen locks up on certain functions, LTE goes out for no reason, streaming locks up even with good LTE condition, door windows don’t always close correctly, reverse camera doesn’t always come on, random screen reboots, and on.

It’s a buggy car. If you don’t believe me, I can post screen shots in the forum.

Sorry to hear that, is it an early build?

My October 18 build has been flawless so far with 8,000 miles driven.

14,200 from last May.

I have an occasional glitch here and there — but very occasional. My biggest problem is sometimes the doors don’t open when i approach the car and I need to unlock my phone — but i’m not convinced that’s not an issue with my phone’s sleep mode.

Overall though — it’s the best car that I have ever owned…

To me if someone says that a car is unreliable, I picture being stuck on the side of the road….

I expect my windows to close reliably

“Feature Complete!”

Maybe it’s featury, not buggy 😉

so this begs the question for me when the car is a little older and out of warranty is it something that somebody is really going to want to own?

The high resale value for Tesla cars suggests the answer is “No!”

Sounds like you got a lemon. If it was my car, I’d seriously consider asking for a replacement.

They also don’t report their population size.

I seem to recall that a few years ago, CR reported that about 600 Tesla Model S owners answered their surveys. Dunno what that says about the Model 3 survey. Maybe CR tops out at 600 surveys per model… and maybe they don’t.

600 people? WTF that’s not accurate………… if you want accurate data you need to get all Tesla model 3 owner answer your survey………….

No matter how well you use Statistics for survey you still not accurate because it’s only a sample size for survey…………..

why would you believe something that has an error margin of 5-10 %……………

Every Model 3 made during the ramp-up and mad dash to year-end is likely to have build quality issues. Most will be paint, panel alignment, trim, and/or glass issues.

Tesla should acknowledge that cars built in 2017/18 may have a higher incidence of issues and extend the bumper-to-bumper warranties on those vehicles.

Most of those issues mentioned are ones that would be found on delivery which Tesla can (and should) fix free of charge, so I’m not sure what an extended warranty would do.

I think an extension on warranty usually makes sense if it is instead mechanical issues that take a while to pop up.

Sometimes it takes a while for things to show up. Maybe there is an improperly secured wiring harness under the car slowly abrading against something. Might take 60,000 miles before intermittent shorts happen, causing the center screen to constantly reboot.

Really anything is possible. And, since Tesla knows they threw cars together as fast as possible for over a year, they should extend warranty coverage for those cars.

In other words you know nothing about any issues and based on speculation want Tesla to extend the warranty.
Funny.

I own a Model 3 built in summer 2018. It has visible build quality issues, which I mostly ignore. But, if I can see issues on the surface, then there are likely issues under the skin too.

Just read the Tesla forums and you’ll see the constant complaints during the ramp-up, and even now, about build quality. Many people rejected cars because of them.

“Really anything is possible.”

That’s true for every car, and it’s why auto makers give warranties for their new cars. Every one of them.

You have completely failed to make a case that Tesla cars are somehow different from everyone else’s in that regard.

I actually tend to agree that any year-1 car has significant issues while the manufacturer works out kinks. But, they’re extreme is Tesla’s case and deserve special action.

Yeah. If the “issue” is something that hasn’t been noticed in the 8 years the warranty is in effect, noticed neither by the driver nor by Tesla techs during their very extensive checks of the car during scheduled maintenance sessions, then I question it’s a serious issue.

B2B warranty is only 4/50.

Yes, we are getting ours back today after having such an issue (fender alignment and paint flake) fixed. I noticed it last July, but had trouble getting through the “production hell”. So I waited. They fixed it free of charge, and gave us a Model S loaner to drive for a few days.

So overall Tesla has handled it (and ours was VERY minor).

The car is phenomenal.

Seems pretty likely that this is simply Tesla prioritizing the short term, as ever — pushing out a lot of cars with faults and then fixing those faults is obviously much more expensive than catching the error early and correct it *before* delivery. But with nowhere to put so many cars, production rates would then have to take a hit until the problems are solved, and Tesla doesn’t want to do that.

Pretty frustrating if you ask me.

Tesla putting profits before quality/customers? Say it ain’t so Elon!

Not spending “the capital raise” is a new era for them. Unless they do another, Rivian will be well ahead in the pick-up segment. First, Model Y is substantially coming out of current margins. Semi, Pick-up, then…..Roadster? A company can’t do 50-100% unit growth without equity/debt funding. That, or it will be a long time.

Sequential profitable (or near profitable) quarters of Model 3 production, and stabilized regional demand volumes and then maybe Tesla raises funds?

They should need substantially less money for equivalent growth going forward. The money and effort given to deny Tesla access to credit markets is incredible. The fact that it won’t slow the technological change more than a few months is completely lost in the noise. The firms paying to pretend the future doesn’t come are just as screwed as they were.

MadBro putting his employer’s soon to be one EV model before the rEVolution and the benefit of all, say it ain’t so GM Bro!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

I guess they should’ve went profits before high count of human lives right GM?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15353429/gm-ignition-switch-review-complete-124-fatalities-274-injuries/

I see someone here putting bashing of every EV maker other than GM before his claimed advocacy for EVs.

And it’s become a habit for you.

Yet, the car is highly rated by their owners. So apparently is not all that big of a deal to the owners.

Kind of like the Bolt owners putting up with crummy seats and a cheap plastic interior.

They enjoy their cars so much that they willing to put up the defects.

I imagine the Model 3 interior cost less than the Bolt EV. So I think calling plastic cheap just because you don’t like the feel or look is misplaced. I’m sure GM could have put some soft touch material in additional places, but what does it get you – some reviewer tapping all over the car in places you’ll never touch during operation?

I have always said I think GM built a car they knew they could sell for $30k after incentives are gone. Tesla built a $40k car they hope they can get down to $35k.

yeah, I don’t get the fascination some have with “soft touch” materials. Are they rubbing their naughty bits all over the car?

Personally, the hard plastics are easier to maintain and survive abuse easier.

They can look fine if done right.

“So I think calling plastic cheap just because you don’t like the feel or look is misplaced.”

Almost every single professional review of the Bolt EV complains about the cheap, hard plastic all over the interior. Frankly I think you have a good point, but it’s hard to argue that there isn’t a consensus about the Bolt EV having a cheap-looking and cheap-feeling interior from auto reviewers.

This, Tesla has the highest Customer Satisfaction ratings in the Auto industry. Something MadBro’s GM can only dream about.

Something MadBro can only dream about.

There are probably 50K Bolt/Ampera-e drivers in the world; I don’t think you have read everyone’s mind to generalize this way 🙂 — (you certainly couldn’t have read mine, because I wear an alien tech-derived colander headcover).

The Bolt as a species doesn’t really have “defects”; some examples do, but not the whole species. It’s actually rather well figured out and put together. It does have a few problems – some are endemic to the current generation of EV’s in general, others are Bolt’s own nuisances, like the low position of the backup camera, the stiff suspension, the idiosyncratic HVAC system, the absence of the spare wheel …

Well parents love their kids even if they’re ugly

You attempt to shut off their access to credit with one side of your mouth and then complain about the rational response from the other.

So they actually reach out to you when they are doing an other round of using click magnet Tesla to get some publicity for themselves. It’s probably another case of early models that are not representative for what Tesla is currently producing.

Meanwhile Model X is one of the quickest selling used cars, it’s almost as if nobody is paying any attention to CR.

Anyone considering purchasing a Model 3 needs to speak directly to as many owners as they can find. In my mind, that outweighs any “survey”. My 7 month old Model 3 has never been to the shop, nor needed any type of repair. But lets say someone had a problem with a piece of window trim and a Tesla Ranger drove to their house and fixed it in their driveway. Would you consider that a reliability issue, or an example of great service? Yes, I’m aware of Tesla’s spending lots of time in a body shop, but Elon stated in the last earnings call that turnaround time and spare parts stocking is a top priority this year.

I love when serious issues are reported about a certain product, then you have the “I’ve had 0 problems with said product ever! It’s the best product ever!” homers that try and imply their experience is what every experience is like and dismiss all reported issues. It never fails.

Not dismissing anything. I clearly said, “Anyone considering purchasing a Model 3 needs to speak directly to as many owners as they can find. ” I’ll take personal experience over any conclusions a magazine made based on a limited survey.

Am guessing the CR survey represents more Model 3 owners than most of us would speak with directly. But I agree that talking with other Model 3 owners isn’t a bad idea….

I believe the video said they had a dataset of 500… which is more than most people would talk to, but still pretty puny considering there are >200K Model 3’s out in the wild now.

Yes, Eferg is to be commended for his recommendation that, before making a buying decision, the potential car buyer should talk to as many people actually driving that model as possible before making the buying decision.

We shouldn’t allow that excellent advice to get drowned in the river of MadBro’s endless EV bashing.

Actually, everything MadBro writes should be automatically dismissed as he is nothing but a shill for his employer GM and a long time serial anti-Tesla troll here.

Or you could just watch youtube videos of people having problem or the various owner forums of people reporting issues, and decide for yourself. But for any product, it does tend to get biased to the negative, because people that are not having issues tend not to post that.

Or you could hang out at a busy Tesla Supercharger for an hour and talk to real owners and get real insights into any issues they’ve had. Consumer Reports considers a broken door handle on a Tesla equivalent to a broken timing chain on a gasser.

And I’m sure you’re completely even-handed any time someone brings up the battery pack failures on the Bolt.

A small slice of early production Bolts have had some battery cell issues, and GM has been very proactive in getting to the bottom of the problem, going as far as replacing entire battery packs if a single cell was bad. Some guy on here even documented having his battery replaced twice by GM. What more is there to say?

“What more is there to say?”

Too bad you don’t have the same attitude against repeating things when it comes to your endless bashing of every single EV which isn’t made by GM.

But at the same time, dismissing the “homers” in favor of only the negative experiences is doing the same thing in reverse, right kettle, er, I mean bro1999? ( And don’t tell me that you give equal love to the folks with positive experiences, because I only see you comment on anything Tesla negative.) And (gasp!) some folks like me actually fall in the middle- I’ve had a couple handle fixes on my Model S, but I still have had more positive experiences than negative. And I understand that my experience does nothing for the person who’s had nothing but problems during their entire ownership. As well as for the person who’s had nary an issue.

See how objectivity works?

So, it’s only when Bolt EV drivers do that, that it’s okay. In fact, that’s to be applauded, right MadBro? 🙄

Just admit you’re nothing but a serial EV basher. Your claims to be an EV advocate have long since worn out.

And it’s a sad indication of how many EV haters are reading comments here that you got 10 upvotes for your hostile and anti-social comment.

Everything you just said is fabricated b.s.

Sounds to me somebody are angry at the whole world.. that just make their life miserable
BEVs arent for everyone.. but hey, i enjoy a BEV every day and will newer go back to old scool cars.

Bjorn, he or she is lying.

Could be a paid anti-EV troll, could be a right-wing ideolog, could work in an industry/sector being disrupted by Tesla/Musk, could be part of a Russian troll farm.

Lots of possibilities.

I think you are spot on!
Musk is challenging some of the worlds biggest and most powerful industries, so he is getting a lot of «enemies»
And than we have the dumbest buissiness i can think off; the shorts..
There is a konstant shipload of statements/ articles like this here in Norway too but i dont care.. the Tesla mission alone is reason enough for me to buy the three this spring.
Of course Tesla cars are not perfect, they are a young company. But, man, how fast they improve!. I think All the issues we experience from the old OEMs far worse

With such an extreme example of trolling, I’m guessing it comes from a Russian troll farm.

Here is the pertinent info in their latest video starting at 9:31: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPV3Znqa37I

Tesla really needs to focus on quality now that they have mastered quantity. There are a lot of oddball problems with their cars that shouldn’t exist. Like the loose rattle when the window is down on the Model X and you close the door and it sounds like it’s going to fall out. That shouldn’t happen. Just had the center screen go out on our X and it’s been in the shop a month. They gave us an X loaner, so it’s fine, but it’s a quality problem that needs to be remedied or they are going to go bust doing silly repairs.

Agree that they need to focus on improving or maintaining quality as they continue working to lower production costs. The benefits of high quality should easily be well be higher than the costs for an EV maker.

So using your litmus test for quality, how do you assess BMW, Audi and Mercedes? They are not exactly known for their reliability either and seems like people give them a free pass.

So who here that actually owns a Tesla subscribes to Consumer Reports magazine? Or for that matter actually subscribes to any publication?

Consumer reports says they have 500+ subscribers with Model 3s. While I would like to see the numbers much higher for statistical significance.

That just tells you there are lot of smart people that DON’T subscribe to CR. So how relavent is CR? I think they are just trolling to get attention.

This is of course anecdotal evidence, but I’ve been surprised at how many negative comments I’ve seen about CR when the subject of CR’s ratings for EVs (not just Tesla EVs) comes up on EV forums. In particular, multiple people posting to the very active Clarity PHEV section of the InsideEVs Forum have said they have cancelled their CR subscription because of the negative and (what they say are) downright misleading reviews of the Clarity PHEV.

I’ve seen lots of negative remarks about CR on Tesla-specific forums such as the Tesla Motors Club, too. But perhaps that’s a biased sample, because I see a lot of people here in the current discussion thread saying very positive things about CR.

Perhaps my opinion is an outlier. I have no doubt that CR is reliable when it comes to rating dishwashers or staplers or bathroom tissue. I just don’t believe they are giving readers informed and objective reviews of Tesla cars.

Clearly Tesla is doomed and the Model 3 is a Lemon. I mean loose body trim how can they ever recover from this. This is just like the time the Ford Pinto would explode when rear ended. /S

as long as it get fixed as warranty/service upgrades consumers are happy

Yeah who cares about what consumer reports think. They constantly keep legitimizing and praising ICE cars and incessantly complain about design choices and gear shifters that are “unordinary” when it’s not an issue after driving the car for an hour. They’re stuck back in the 20th century and they constantly praise Subaru and Mazda and Toyota just cuz they’re reliable. Meanwhile they don’t make any EVs so I don’t care.

From an economic efficiency perspective CR matters. The information they provide can be helpful both to companies and consumers. They need help. Bad companies (this is not static nor something companies should want to be) don’t want you to have good information. That is bad for all of us. It wastes money and needlessly hurts us all. If you see something they are missing, let them know. If they don’t understand something, let them know. They need to receive constructive criticism as much as they need to provide it. The operative word there is constructive. Try to frame your feedback in a way that you could benefit from it going forward.

I don’t think that CR keeps flip-flopping by alternately dis-recommending and then re-recommending Tesla cars because they are “missing” something. I think they do it because it gives them an excuse to keep putting the attention-grabbing “TESLA” headlines on the covers of their magazines and on their websites, several times every year.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. But don’t rule out malice.” — Hanlon’s Razor (with addendum)

Subaru reliable? 600,000 recalls

https://apnews.com/afeac73ccf5f4073805c632127820d66

Toyota reliable? > 1 million recalls

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toyota-prius-recall-1-million-prius-and-c-hr-vehicles-due-to-fire-risk-2018-09-05/?ftag=MSFd61514f

Oh let’s not forget about the Takata airbags blowing up in your face. Japanese quality.

CR been shilling for Japanese manufacturers for decades because….money?

Negative feed back is essential to improve product, I own Model 3 , 8 K miles with zero issues, I subscribe to consumer report, but have given up filling up survey so data sets of survey may be getting smaller because there is no incentive to do so.

So do I buy a Bolt, or a Tesla with loose trim? A golf cart or a Porsche?

You roll the dice, and hopefully you come up with snake eyes + 1.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Depends.
Do you wanna get laid……..or not?
😛

Nothing new, if someone wants a reliable car than isn’t going to spend over 10% of the time (based on some long reviews, some published in this site and probably not statistically very correct) it’s better to get a Toyota… that alas has no BEVs…
Tesla costumers seem pretty tolerant, but when they start (already are) to move far from the “first adopters” territory Tesla must improve radically their reliability rate.

“Tesla costumers seem pretty tolerant…”

And most Tesla customers, too. #AutoInCorrect 😉

I don’t have many issues with CR other than they don’t seem to categorize issues very well. A faulty door handle gets treated the same as a timing chain breaking. Problems that can cause immobility/severe damage/safety should factor heavier into it’s reliability ratings.

Exactly this. That’s why a prospective buyer can’t go by this type of survey. Talk directly to the owners people!

So fit and finish of some trim and a few glass defects gives the Model 3 “reliability” issues. Let’s compare to some others on their list of 6 that are no longer recommended. BMW 5-series: “CR members told us that they experienced multiple problems with power equipment, including areas such as the keyless entry system and the lights, along with the in-car electronics systems, such as the screen going blank and the navigation system failing.” Chrysler 300: “CR members who own Chrysler 300 sedans told us that they had several issues with in-car electronics, including the display screen freezing or going blank, and problems with the radio and navigation system. ” “…problems with the 300’s climate-control system, particularly the compressor and evaporator.” Dodge Charger: “Members told us that their Chargers had problems with interior and exterior trim, and molding pieces. In addition, the Charger suffered from the same in-car electronics issues, including the display screen freezing or going blank, and problems with the radio and navigation system.” VW Tiguan: “Members who own the Tiguan told us that they experienced problems with the body control modules (which are the computers that control power components such as windows, locks, etc.), remote engine… Read more »

Thankyou for this post! Best post here, puts things more in perspective.

So what’s your solution? Burning more hydrocarbons? =) To be fair, I think the future is multi-modal. Our household has ICE and EV vehicles. BTW, before purchasing my Model 3, I did look into used EV’s. At least where I live, there really aren’t any available that were more appealing than a new Model 3. Even used Teslas were pretty pricey. Used M3’s were going for similar cost as a new one once rebates were taken into account. I don’t really believe your assertion that people are getting rid of them at a higher rate than ICE cars. Actually, I did talk to a number of friends who own them (they all recommended), and also at least 5 of my neighbors have them (all seem happy) – some people have two Teslas in their garages. I’m not “embarrassed” at all about the money I spent on the car – it was actually similar in cost to other cars in the small luxury sedan category. I also didn’t wait a long time – just walked into a showroom, they confirmed they had one in stock when I placed the order, and it showed up on my driveway in a few days.… Read more »

Bummer…but I doubt it affects sales much. There have been some glitches. And they still need to get the fit & finish perfected. But hopefully most of the bugs have been worked out.

Well bless CR little hearts !!!

If you had even cut your axe grinding in half, you may have actually convinced a couple suckers. But jumping from one political talking point to the next to the next does yourself no favors. Just some friendly advice.

Lumping fit and finish issues in with reliability is not wise or useful to consumers IMO. It results in minor things having a disproportionate effect on ratings, and it is one of the reasons I don’t look to CR for automotive recommendations.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

My BSoMeter just pinged to the far right…….

Mine just broke.

Oooh, one Loveday guy posting an article about a real but not positive fact about Tesla. Nice.

No surprise…any new model from an dino juice automaker or bev builder will not be nearly as reliable the first couple years of production. CR has reported this fact for,many years…just common sense to stay away the first couple years of a brand new model.

That’s why I’m hoping Volkswagen turns out cars and numbers on the meb platform so I can get a reasonably priced car that’s actually screwed together right. Don’t really care about autopilot or we’re having all of my controls on a screen that freezes up and glitches regularly

Is there any other car, any model from any auto maker, that Consumer Reports keeps issuing new an different ratings every few months, rather than just once a year?

No, I don’t think so. This has been a repeated pattern by CR for years now, first with the Model S and now with the Model 3. I submit that Consumer Reports doesn’t keep flip-flopping on its ratings of Tesla vehicles because they really think the minor issues they keep reporting are that important. If such issues really were important enough for CR to change from a “recommended” to a “not recomended” rating, then they wouldn’t keep flip-flopping back to a positive rating a couple of months later to give yet CR another excuse to splash the “TESLA” name across their cover yet again.

What needs to be dis-recommended… is CR’s car ratings. They should stick to rating appliances and household goods, and leave rating cars to those organizations which have the expertise and personnel to properly examine and properly rate cars. For example, the experts at at Edmunds.com.

CR gets PAID by auto makers to say whatever they want obviously

And in other news today

Electric Cars Outsell Hybrids In California: Tesla Model 3 Tops In Class 😁😁😁

Nothing to see here, really – it’s to be expected. Tesla’s initial quality of each model has been notorious. Give it another 6 months to a year, and it’ll be recommended again.

My Model 3 came with 3 defects. First, some drunk must have put the chrome trim molding on one of the doors, but Mobile Service fixed it after delivery. Second, my phone stopped unlocking my car for a time. Apparently an OTA software update fixed that. Third, my rearview mirror blinds me at dawn and dusk because it only darkens at California sunset time apparently. The Mobile tech checked it and says it functions as designed. Well it’s a terrible design and I have told Tesla I was going to file a complaint with the NHTSA and DOT if they don’t resolve this dangerous problem.

In light of these defects, would I recommend the Model 3? Hell YES! It is insanely good in every other respect.

🙄 Apparently you think readers here are as clueless as your comments are. Fortunately, we’re not.

In fact, you’re an embarrassment to the other trolls.

This is a very, very subjetive. Some people are in love of a person who hurts them. And they are happy, but can’t see the truth. The Teslas are cars buyed for passioned people that are in love with their cars, they can forgive many of the problems or think that they are compensate for other aspects, but objetively a journalist or a organism as CR can’t hide the lack of quality and recommend them.

If the car has a lot of problems, is obvious that CR can’t recommen it. Today. Maybe in a future the car can improve the quality and reliability and could be recommended again.

Moshe Vaknin - The Electric Israeli

This is crap!!! Nit Picking BS. Never listen to them.

Yea, keep the improvements and fixes for another model that I have to buy later.

Why on Earth would a reputable agency weigh superficial defects or a few glitches the same as they weigh something like lackluster hard braking performance? “Let’s see, they fixed the brake issue, customers are bonkers over these cars, but oh some people complained about fit and finish over six months ago, this car is now junk, don’t buy it!” CR strains credulity.

Looks like someone did not get there Vick?

It’s scary stuff that Tesla had to hear about their major brake distance problem from Consumer Reports when they failed to recommend them initially. Great… an OTA update saved the day.. but how does something like a braking distance problem pass Q&A in the first place before getting the vehicle into customers hands? What if Consumer Reports hadn’t brought up the issue? If that doesn’t tip people off to serious testing problems at Tesla, then I don’t know what does. Time and again, Tesla has needed to make updates to their cars to fix problems that would have been obvious to anyone testing their cars. There aren’t problems that only affected a few cars, as is often the case when legacy car makers recall cars… they’re problems that affected all of their cars. It’s as if they completely skipped the testing process altogether in many instances.. instead using their customers as guinea pigs and fixing issues as they’re reported. You know it’s bad when EV bloggers are tweeting Elon directly about issues and common sense updates in order to get changes applied. For a company trying to save as much money as possible, I can only imagine that testing (or… Read more »

At least no power train problems. This company makes daily improvements on the line.

I don’t know what consumer reports is